11:33am: Hayes tweets that the two sides have had the deal in place since Thursday night, which is what prompted the flight to Boston.
11:23am: Sean McAdam of CSNNE.com reports (via Twitter) that Gonzalez has already taken his physical and his surgically repaired shoulder "should be fine." Some minor tests still need to be completed.
11:13am: MLB.com's Peter Gammons tweets that the player to be named later is not a "prime guy." The two teams determine who exactly it will be later.
10:52am: Morosi tweets that Gonzalez is seeking a Ryan Howard-like contract. Howard signed a five-year contract extension worth $125MM earlier this year.
10:13am: Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports tweets that the Padres will also receive a player to be named, so it's a 4-for-1 swap. The 40-man roster freeze is in effect until next week's Rule 5 Draft, so it's possible the player is a minor leaguer not on the 40-man that's eligible for the Rule 5.
10:04am: Heyman tweets that there is still work to be done as far as a contract extension for Gonzalez, and that it could take a day or two. Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports confirms with a source that the trade is "not completely done." (Twitter link)
9:14am: Hayes tweets that the package includes Kelly, Rizzo, and Reymond Fuentes. ESPN Boston's Gordon Edes says (via Twitter) that Theo Epstein flew from San Diego to Boston with Gonzalez, and MLB.com's Corey Brock says that Jed Hoyer implored his scouts to scour the lower level of the minors in 2010 (Twitter link). The second and third player in the deal are key.
9:01am: SI.com's Jon Heyman tweets that negotiations about a contract extension will begin shortly, and that Kelly is in fact in the deal. WEEI.com's Alex Speier adds that multiple Red Sox prospects rumored to be in the deal have yet to hear anything from the team about a trade (Twitter link).
7:39am: Olney tweets that the Red Sox flew Gonzalez into Boston to help move the process along, and he is there now.
6:30am: Adrian Gonzalez is expected in Boston today for a physical, reports Nick Cafardo of the Globe. Gonzalez had shoulder surgery to clean up his right labrum in October and has a four or five month recovery timeline. Cafardo says talks have centered around Casey Kelly and Anthony Rizzo, and the deal "would likely involve three or four players from the Sox, including one who is major league-ready." ESPN's Buster Olney says that all players have been agreed to and the Red Sox are now trying to work out an extension with Gonzalez. MLB has approved a negotiating window.
SATURDAY, 12:01am: The Red Sox are very close to acquiring Adrian Gonzalez from the Padres, tweets Dan Hayes of the North County Times. Hayes says the trade would just involve Gonzalez and not Heath Bell, whose name has come up in other rumors. Hayes adds that the deal will only involve minor leaguers – not players such as Jacoby Ellsbury, Daniel Bard, or Jed Lowrie. Top Red Sox prospect Casey Kelly would definitely be involved.
FRIDAY, 4:46pm: The Red Sox and Padres are discussing a potential trade that would send Adrian Gonzalez to Boston, according to Gordon Edes of ESPNBoston.com. Red Sox GM Theo Epstein appears to be making "some headway" in tempting Padres GM Jed Hoyer with a package of top prospects, Edes reports.
The proposed deal would include minor league players only. Hoyer, new assistant Josh Byrnes and Padres exec Jason McLeod are all former Red Sox executives, so they know the team's system well. Other clubs also have strong interest in the first baseman.
The Padres must address multiple needs on a limited budget this offseason and trading Gonzalez and his $6.2MM salary would give the team some flexibility. However, few hitters have Gonzalez's power and they would create a hole by dealing their first baseman.
The Red Sox, who have long had interest in Gonzalez, could move Kevin Youkilis to third base to make room. A trade for Gonzalez would effectively end Adrian Beltre's tenure in Boston.
macphail better get jed on the phone!
Yep… to listen in on a 3-way to learn how a real team does business.
Yep. Train a GM at the assistant level, have him go to another team, then deal with him. Hoyer was Epstein’s boy, and evidently still is.
LOL @ the O’s fan
Great…here we go again. Let’s see if something actually happens this time…
Oh it will. The Padres will get way more in a trade now as opposed to the trade deadline when the Sox could (I’m a die hard Sox fan so I don’t hope by any means that it would happen) fall out of it and then wouldn’t even attempt a trade, and this way they get something (more) rather than draft picks when he ultimately signs a FA deal with Boston.
arrogance AND cockiness… wow
Didn’t seem that arrogant to me. Cocky yes, but he brings up some good points. Boston has been courting Adrian for a long time. I think it’s finally on the verge of getting done.
arrogance AND cockiness… wow
Oh it will. The Padres will get way more in a trade now as opposed to the trade deadline when the Sox could (I’m a die hard Sox fan so I don’t hope by any means that it would happen) fall out of it and then wouldn’t even attempt a trade, and this way they get something (more) rather than draft picks when he ultimately signs a FA deal with Boston.
This better be for real!!!
Great idea, get him out of the NL West.
Absolutely.
get him out of the NL
Out of the NL period one less power bat to deal with. I wonder how may more HR’s he hits at fenway?
Oh, Lordy, he could hit 40-45 IF healthy.
Get it done Theo!!!
Sounds good to me! Oh man, it is nice to see Boston finally getting involved in more serious rumors than “going to talk with” news. 🙂
Keep in mind though, this deal would not only cross Beltre off of the list, but it would involve a possible A-Gon extension, which I think would be awesome…Maybe like a 7 year 170MM deal starting after next season…
I’m sure that is a stipulation in the whole ordeal. The Padres would position to (the fans) that he would at least be taken care of and that a deal was done with whole-hearted good intentions.
I’m sure that would make padres fans feel oh so much better, he’s their whole team, the entire city absolutely loves him.
They should be prepared for that though. He’s had one foot out the door for a couple years now. Padres were never going to be able re-sign him.
Without a doubt, but the fans don’t come to the ballpark as it is, I cant imagine how sparse it will be when he gets traded. Who else do they have to watch, Latos once every five games?
Yeah this is true although there will be some fans in the stands when my Giants come to town 9 times out of the year. It’s been a sad last few weeks for Padres fans. Losing Miggy to the Giants and now Agone is gone! LMAO!!!
Yeah this is true although there will be some fans in the stands when my Giants come to town 9 times out of the year. It’s been a sad last few weeks for Padres fans. Losing Miggy to the Giants and now Agone is gone! LMAO!!!
I’m sure that is a stipulation in the whole ordeal. The Padres would position to (the fans) that he would at least be taken care of and that a deal was done with whole-hearted good intentions.
Keep in mind though, this deal would not only cross Beltre off of the list, but it would involve a possible A-Gon extension, which I think would be awesome…Maybe like a 7 year 170MM deal starting after next season…
Stratch that, I meant 7 year 160MM deal.
Yeah, but I think maybe more like 6 years, $140MM on the extension, plus a $5MM current year signing bonus, so its like a 7 year deal, but not quite. Give Jed basically anything and everything he wants out of the minors, except Iglesias. Raid us, 5 or 6 players is fine.
I kind of agree with the fact that Iglesias is untouchable.
Definitely. It’s been such a struggle finding a shortstop, that I don’t think Boston could stomach trading away another strong candidate for that role. His defensive skills are so amazing too….watching a video of him backflipping grounders to second base had me drooling.
Yeah, I would trade Lowrie though
Me too. Great guy, don’t think he has much of a future here. Not after 2011 at least. He deserves a starting role, and assuming Iglesias pans out, he won’t have much of one in Boston.
Though you can’t get something for nothing… I’d trade Iglesias if it netted me A-Gon for sure.
It would be expensive… but trading Ells in an A-Gon deal while making a move on werth or Crawford would be pretty nice.
I get the idea that the front office is growing tired of Ellsbury… they deny it, but where there’s smoke, there’s fire.
Iglesias/A-Gon straight up? Sure, because that’s insanely stupid for the Padres. But nearly any other offer, no. Besides, its not like the other prospects we’ve got are “nothing”. If the Padres INSISTED on Iglesias, the Red Sox would likely decrease the rest of their offer substantially, leading the Padres to realize that he won’t be part of any reasonable trade.
Of course I’ll say this, and tomorrow they’ll make the trade with Iglesias and Kelly and Ellsbury or something….oh well. 😛
Although I would love the Padres to get there hands on Iglesias, I can’t understand how prospects to a big market teams are untouchable. If Iglesias can’t figure it ot at the plate, he becomes another Jack Wilson or Adam Everett, and can you imagine giving up a shot at Gonzalez for those 2. Prospects are not guarantees and I wish people would start to realize it.
I agree in general, however I think Theo sees the revolving door at SS as his one big mark and this kid is already being billed as the SS of the future. After believing he had the SS of the future in Hanley (only to be traded away while he was on hiatus) I don’t think he lets the “new” shortstop of the future go. Just my thoughts though, and I may be proven wrong before too long.
Evereth Cabrera is a good example. He could develop into an outstanding defensive shortstop, already a pretty good one…. but offensively he has not put it together yet. I don’t see the Padres needing Iglesias unless they have given up on Cabrera or plan to make one of them a secondbaseman. If the Padres want Iglesias then I would think Iglesias/Kelly/Kalish get it done.
Everth is a terrible defensive SS.
agree completely.
If Agon is going to cost Iglesias + Lars or Rizzo + Reddick or Kalish + Kelly or Dobrount I would be absolutely positively fine with it.
The Sox are a large market team, they will have at least one first round pick this year, possibly 3 second rounders and possibly 3 sandwich picks depending on which of their remaining free agents sign so they can replentish the system.
Agon (and sign him to an extension) for Iglesias, Kelly, Kalish and Lars?? sign me up…
I could see Kelly, Rizzo,Dobrount,Kalish
They wont move anyone off the mLB roster for the deal but it could more likely be:
Kelly,Reddick,Kalish,Lowrie + someone else or low level prospects
While that might not be equivalent value for AGon,those could be some decent pieces with low cost and control for SD to plug in the line up over the next year or so.
Ells is not coming to San Diego. He is WAY too expensive, and we just traded for our CF for now and the future in Maybin. Also, Ells is so injury prone why would we want him?
Lowrie, Kelley, and one other top prospect, and maybe one more lower level gets it done. If we wait, the Sox will sign Beltre. I am sure Theo wants an answer before the meetings start.
Why do I have to keep doing this? Ellsbury has had exactly one injury (a freak accident with a 3B/wrecking crew) in his career and (believe it or not) was actually praised around here for his willingness to play hurt before the rib injury. Say what you want about Ells but the fact that he is now seen as injury prone completely baffles me, and it’s not just you I have seen this literally dozens of times in the last couple of days.
he’s just as injury prone as Pedroia…
One injury, one that happened to be lingering thruout the year.
I’d love to keep the guy personally b/c his value is going to be as low as ever due to lasy years ONE INJURY
It doesn’t matter. The Pads don’t want Ells. He’s arb eligible and will make $3MM+ this year, probably $5MM or so next. That’s too much payroll for them to carry.
Oh I know, I’ve been making the same argument on here. I think they would much prefer Kalish as he is cheaper and under control much longer. I just hate when people baselessly bash a player for something they can’t back up.
You’re he’s defiantly not injury prone, people just dont understand how tricky rib injuries are it’s certainly not ells fault he couldnt return and it’s a shame people were blaming him.
I disagree with you Anthony. I think the front office still has a lot of faith in Ellsbury as is shown by this trade. Even if they sign Crawford, Cameron may be better suited as a backup outfielder and it would give the Sox plenty of opportunity to rest JD Drew when needed and keep their outfielders fresh. Whats to be sick of? A guy who makes spectacular plays look easy in the outfield (though his overall defense leaves a bit to be desired)? Who can (and actually wants to) be the next guy to steal 100 bases in a season? Who is widely considered in the top 5 fastest in baseball? Who can also hit .300?
I hear you. Theo hates low OBP leadoff guys and the injury risk of all 3 Boston outfielders. But I think he (as I do) loves Ellsbury explosiveness and almost limitless potential if he can stay healthy. I can see him becoming a consistant 15 home run guy also at Fenway. His potential is like a tier under Ricky Henderson (but he could even hit for better average). I’d like to ride it out if the Sox can afford to and see how he develops.
good luck getting Crawford now. your boy Theo pissed off the Yankees when he tried to steal Mo from us. Yanks are in on Crawford now and it’s just about over for you guys. You’ll have to settle for Werth, who isn’t a bad player by any means – he’s just not Carl Crawford.
great! sign crawford and bench gardiner! now whos pissed?
great! sign crawford and bench gardiner! now whos pissed?
A chance to land one of the best 1B in baseball and you have an untouchable prospect…that’s funny.
For one season.
No, conditioned on the signing of an extension, with the standard 72 hour window.
Yeah, I would trade Lowrie though
Definitely. It’s been such a struggle finding a shortstop, that I don’t think Boston could stomach trading away another strong candidate for that role. His defensive skills are so amazing too….watching a video of him backflipping grounders to second base had me drooling.
He is definitely close to being untouchable. 80 defense at SS just doesn’t pop up everyday on the market.
Still has a ton of potential, and very young. My boy Adeiny I very similiar.
I kind of agree with the fact that Iglesias is untouchable.
Remind me. Who won the AL East last year?
I think it was the team Carl Crawford used to play for.
Uhm, I know you know the answer to that question, General, so that makes me ask, how is this germane to the discussion at hand? What’s the motivation?
I dont think Iglesias helps the Red Sox this year.
No, but there is one player I think we can’t give up here. You can have Lowrie, who is MLB ready, hit over .300, with some power, is cheap (5 year control) and can play short, 2nd or 3rd. Iglesias is the only guy you can’t have. Take your pick of all of our farm system. Kelly, Kalish, Lavarnway, Pimentel, Doubrount, Rizzo, Middlebrooks, Reddish, etc. Anything and everything but Iglesias. There is a deep wealth of strong prospects to be had.
The point is trading all your quality in your farmsystem is dangerous especially for a possible one year player. It doesn’t matter what size market. Tampa built from within then supplemented their club through acquisitions.
I’m a Braves fan. We are still recovering from the Tex trade. It sure would be nice to have Feliz closing and Andrus roaming short. Not to mention the possibility of having Salty at first.
Theo and AGon are discussing a long term deal…there is no way Theo is going to let bring him in only to risk losing him after 1 year.
rays won it by a game so proud of them
Yeah, but I think maybe more like 6 years, $140MM on the extension, plus a $5MM current year signing bonus, so its like a 7 year deal, but not quite. Give Jed basically anything and everything he wants out of the minors, except Iglesias. Raid us, 5 or 6 players is fine.
with all due respect my friend…let’s not get too ahead of ourselves
I just said it was a rumor…and it is a bit serious, because apparently there is an actual proposal now. And the last couple days all we’ve seen is “they’re talking to Crawford” or “meeting with Boras”, which is almost a non-rumor. I just mean the “fact” that Boston is making headway is pretty good news. We’ve heard A-Gon rumors for what seems like forever now, but Boston never seemed to get far.
Understood but how long have we been hearing about this? First it was the 2009 Trade deadline…didn’t happen, 2009-2010 offseason…didn’t happen, 2010 trade deadline…didn’t happen. All I’m saying is that this rumor has a history of not panning out. Like I said, no offense meant.
Yeah you’re right. So I’m filled with hope and anticipation right now, cause I really have no idea where it’ll go from here. But it does feel different, with a pretty positive sounding article here, as well as with so little left on A-Gons contract, there is even more incentive for San Diego to get this done. Still nothing for sure yet, at all. I just meant its much more exciting then hearing about Theo chitchatting with all his agent buddies. 🙂
another thing you should be optimistic about…Kevin Towers is not the Padres GM anymore. He’s off in Arizona asking for a whole farm system for Justin Upton. Theo is too smart to fall for Towers’ delusional thoughts.
To be entirely fair, I have been watching the two year long “A-Gon Watch” like a hawk and this is by far the furthest I have ever seen anything go. I won’t pretend I’m anything but skeptical as yet, but it’s been a lot of “The Padres might make Gonzalez available, the Sox might be interested” with nary of a hint of any legitimate negotiating going on.
Feels like the Jeter talks have been longer LOL
Understood but how long have we been hearing about this? First it was the 2009 Trade deadline…didn’t happen, 2009-2010 offseason…didn’t happen, 2010 trade deadline…didn’t happen. All I’m saying is that this rumor has a history of not panning out. Like I said, no offense meant.
The key thing here is that the Pads are finally coming to their senses. There would be no talent given if they don’t pass the 2011 discount along. Why trade for him with 4 or 5 talented pieces for half a season and no promise of an extension? No one’s going to do it. Hoyer has a few months window of opportunity, which closes after the start of the season. Now is the time, if the Pads want value, to make a trade happen.
with all due respect my friend…let’s not get too ahead of ourselves
More like the M’s better throw themselves back in this conversation.
More like the M’s better throw themselves back in this conversation.
That’s kind of what I have been thinking. The M’s were willing to deal Felix 2 seasons agoe in a 3-way if it meant them getting Gonzalez. What do you think they would be willing to deal now? Would Ackley be totally off limits?
Deal has to start with Casey Kelly, or Igelasis(sp?). Ellsbury would be great to get back as well. I think the Padres gotta pull the trigger this time.
I’ll do a deal with Kelly. I hope Boston can hold onto Iglesias, although you’re right he’ll be a great part of the trade for you guys. Kelly, Kalish, Pimentel, plus….oh I’m not thinking of any names right now. Is that a good start in your opinion?
Ellsbury would be a thrown in, with Kelly as the center piece IMO.
Minor leaguers only. NO JACOBY
you might be screwed on that one brah, losing Adrian Gonzalez would be a big hit to the padres, they’re gonna want a major-leaguer
Total speculation on my part but I wouldn’t be surprised if Hoyer would rather have a guy like Kalish anyway. He has more power potential, still has decent speed, and would be under control for a lot longer than Ellsbury. (though personally I would rather trade Ellsbury and keep Kalish)
I think Kalish is exactly the type of player the Padres would want. They can keep in the minors for another year or so and he has the potential to be better than any of their current outfieldes.
Why keep him in the minors? He was the Sox center fielder for much of the season.
The have a crowded outfield, so unless they plan to move a guy like Venable, they have no spot for him.
Go back and read the story again.
Kelly (P), Lowrie (SS – MLB ready .300+ hitter w/ some power + 5 years control), Rizzo (1B/Power), and Pimentel (P). What say you all?
Replace Rizzo with Doubront. The Padres do not need another AAA power hitting first baseman, they already have Matt Clark, whose numbers are as good as Rizzo’s. Replace Pimental with Iglasis. Replace Lowrie with Kalish. Throw in 2 more top lower level prospects to make it a 6 for 1.
Disagree, Lowrie isn’t part of the equation. He is a major league player they want prospects. With that said … Kelly, Rizzo, Kalish and Pimental. Sorry but Iglasis has to be off limits. I think the sucks learned their lesson with Hanley. And you can see how hard it is this off season to find dependable shortstops in BOTH leagues.-
Iggy isn’t close to hanly though.
thats really not a comparison. they are entirely different types of players. he is not the hitter that hanley is, especially power-wise. but hanley is not even in the discussion if you are talking about defensive shortstops, which iglesias is one of the best.
Lowrie has been that player for a while now i doubt his stock is as high as red sox fans think it is.
Minor leaguers only. NO JACOBY
Yeah Ellsbury wouldn’t be as good in petco with that big field, he’s not much of a fielder
Yeah, he’d just run down every ball and become the Padres best everyday player is all! I can understand why you wouldn’t want him!
Ellsbury would be a thrown in, with Kelly as the center piece IMO.
Iglesias better be involved. The Padres have no legitimate SS prospects.
Drew Cumberland is a solid prospect, though BA appears to think he’s headed towards 2B due to a lack of arm strength.
Yeah definitely a solid prospect, but everything I have read sees him as a future 2B not SS like you said. Another guy is Galvez in low A ball, but he’s unlikely to stick at SS as well.
Don’t forget Jedd Gyorko, who might very well be better than Kolbrin Vitek.
Yeah, at 3B most likely, maybe 2B, but definitely not SS.
Lets not give up on Cabrera just yet. He had a rough year, but with a little time in AAA and some luck with the hamstrings, I think he will be alright.
I agree with BA, If he can stay healthy, he could be a solid 2B.
Drew Cumberland is a solid prospect, though BA appears to think he’s headed towards 2B due to a lack of arm strength.
If the Padres get enough good prospects, it’s possible they could use 1 or more of them to trade for a SS prospect that they want.
Aside from Iglesias himself, neither do the Red Sox.
Agreed, although they could potentially slot Lowrie in at SS as Theo has said he would like to.
Cumberlands offensive numbers are way better then Igesias’s are.
At this point…
Kelly/Rizzo/Lowrie/Pimentel.
At this point…
Kelly/Rizzo/Lowrie/Pimentel.
I highly doubt they trade Iglesias. Lowrie will be in it most likely as the SS.
I’m okay with Lowrie too. One or the other better be involved if the deal gets done though.
I’m okay with Lowrie too. One or the other better be involved if the deal gets done though.
I highly doubt they trade Iglesias. Lowrie will be in it most likely as the SS.
As a Sox fan, I hope Iglesias is not included…we’re all hoping he’s the solution to our SS woes. You’re quite welcome to Ellsbury and Kelly ++ though.
As a Sox fan, I hope Iglesias is not included…we’re all hoping he’s the solution to our SS woes. You’re quite welcome to Ellsbury and Kelly ++ though.
No chance of Ellsbury. Pads won’t want him. He is Arb eligable and will cost to much
I’d say Ells, Rizzo, Kelly, and Reddick.
I’d say Ells, Rizzo, Kelly, and Reddick.
I doubt ellsbury is involved. The Padres are overloaded with outfielders and Ellsbury doesnt have a lot of team control left.
I say it will be Kelly, Rizzo, Kalish and Stolmy Pimentel.
Jed The ‘Jedi’ Hoyer do work!
here come all the crazy proposals again.
red sox get agon. padres get ellsbury, lester, kelly, iglesias, and fenway park.
I started giggling at Lester and flat out cracked up at Fenway Park
I started giggling at Lester and flat out cracked up at Fenway Park
….Okay that one was funny. 😀
….Okay that one was funny. 😀
And an option on the Tobin Bridge with a $500 buyout
I think we would have to trade Kalish for Ozzie Guillen, and then flip him to the Padres in the deal as well.
I think we would have to trade Kalish for Ozzie Guillen, and then flip him to the Padres in the deal as well.
Bravo.
Bravo.
WHAT!? No Buchholz!?
WHAT!? No Buchholz!?
Lester for the Padres 25 man roster more like it.
Im sure they would be more than happy to grant you that
Why would anyone want fenway park? Seems unlikely theres no way the Padres are dumb enough to take that big of a dumb off Bostons hands.
gonzalez for dice-k! it makes perfect sense!
NOT
The Redsox would have to include more prospects for Dice-K
Deja vu all over again!
Nava, Pimentel, Kalish, Ellsbury, Bucholz, Rizzo, Anderson, Lowrie, Bard, Bowden, Bowden, Bowden, and Kelly of course…All for A-Gon…
Seriously though…Kelly, Ellsbury, and Rizzo would make sense to me.
The proposed deal would include minor league players only. so ni elis
Which makes sense. Ells will be making more than that 5.5mil in a year or 2.
Which makes sense. Ells will be making more than that 5.5mil in a year or 2.
The proposed deal would include minor league players only. so ni elis
Weak more names please lmao.
Weak more names please lmao.
Although, apparently its only minor leaguers right now, and I thought Padres had that other first base prospect….or did he struggle in 2010?
I would hope that Ellsbury is not involved. Maybe its Kalish? Cause I’d figure the Padres are hoping to get at least one young outfielder out of it
They have no body in their system that I know of. Although Kyle Blanks is certain to move over for the future when Adrian moves on..
Yeah Kyle Blanks played 1B all through the minors, and apparently played it well. He was only in the OF for the Pads because of Adrian. He had a bad start to the season before requiring season ending tommy john surgery. He’s still pretty highly regarded though and I’m sure Hoyer’s hope is that he can have success as Adrian’s replacement.
After Blanks though the best 1B prospect the Padres have is probably Freiman who played low A ball last year.
Matt Clark in AA San Antonio is a prospect as well.
Matt Clark is replacement level at best. Don’t give up on Dykstra just yet.
You’re gonna tell me Clark is replacement level when Dykstra gets sat when he faces lefties and continues to post up below average numbers in a (lower level) hitters league? I’m running out of patience with Dykstra real quick…..
Clark may be more consistant, but Dykstra has the higher upside. Dykstra could be a complete bust or he could figure some things out and be on onbase and HR beast. Clark projects as a replacement level player, he has a solid shot at reaching the majors but is going to likely be a journeyman and a guy you stash at AAA incase your 1B gets injured. I cant see clark hitting better than .260/.300/.450 in the majors. At 1B this is easily replaced.
“.260/.300/.450”
I wish Dykstra could post those numbers in the Cal League.
Granted he did have a better year, but if he doesn’t put up better numbers in the Texas league, in a tougher hitter’s park and facing better pitching, then you’re looking at a guy who will hit the big leagues no sooner than 26. No exactly the production you’re looking for out of your first round pick.
Matt Clark in AA San Antonio is a prospect as well.
Don’t forget Dykstra, and Adam Dunn wanna be.
Yeah Kyle Blanks played 1B all through the minors, and apparently played it well. He was only in the OF for the Pads because of Adrian. He had a bad start to the season before requiring season ending tommy john surgery. He’s still pretty highly regarded though and I’m sure Hoyer’s hope is that he can have success as Adrian’s replacement.
After Blanks though the best 1B prospect the Padres have is probably Freiman who played low A ball last year.
Matt Clarks numbers are as good as Rizzo’s. We dont need Rizzo.
Rizzo is 3 years younger, higher ceiling.
Maybe Kelly/Rizzo/Iglesias/
Boy ill tell you something, the Red Sox probably wish that their 2010 draft class was eligible
Dontcha know it. They had a good year in that regard for sure.
This is going to sound crazy, but I think Ellsbury needs to be included.
I don’t know that San Diego would even be that huge fan of having him. He’s got a couple expensive arbitration years coming up, and with Boras as his agent they aren’t going to get a cheap extension out of him neither. Kalish may not have the sexy numbers or speed of Ellsbury yet, nor even the same potential maybe…but he’d be a much more affordable option. And including Ellsbury would make it tough for San Diego to also get Lowrie, who would be an affordable solution to their shortstop problem.
Well my deal still stands at
Kelly, Lowrie, Rizzo, and Pimentel
I am still a fan of waiting until he walks, unless the price is *Just* (choking) kelly and Ellsbury, as expensive as that is and THEN having to fork over 20M a year for 6-7 years. nobody else is going to be allowed to out bid Boston when he becomes a FA next year and Agone already knows it, so why give up so much now?? Iglesias? No way, kelly as a prospect is far enough and Lavarnway is going overboard along with kelly.
I’ll bet that’s very close, but with either Reddick or kalish added.
Throw in Kalish and you have a deal.
I don’t know if that’s doable on the Red Sox part.
Go get a third team involved then, do not think SD wants him. Cinn would be a good team to call.
My thoughts were that if they could trade scutaro,cameron or drew for a bag of balls they turn around and send that bag to SD.
This is going to sound crazy, but I think Ellsbury needs to be included.
I think the Padres would do Kelly and Iglesias for Gonzo. And really, if the Padres want a plyer from the 2010 draft class, can he not just be a PTBNL like Bonderman was when he was dealt from the A’s to the Tigers.
Has to he 6 months prior to the one year anniversary of the players signing.
I could see the Padres agreeing Kelly, Iglesias(assuming they think Iglesias is a significant upgrade to Cabrera), and Pimental or Vitek(PTBNL)
theres always PTBNL, but that would be way later and i dont even know if that follows mlb rules.
As a Padre fan, I hope that minor league outfielder is Reymond Fuentes. According to Baseball America, he is a similar player to Ellsbury, but is 4 or 5 years away from the bigs.
Cousin to Carlos Beltran too.
You nailed it Beersy. Its Fuentes. Good tools all around, but lacks even gap power. If the Pads coaching staff can open his stance a little and work on some of his swing dynamics, he could become a decent hitter, with gap power. I don’t think he’s 4 years away, but more probably 2 to 3 seasons away.
Although, apparently its only minor leaguers right now, and I thought Padres had that other first base prospect….or did he struggle in 2010?
I would hope that Ellsbury is not involved. Maybe its Kalish? Cause I’d figure the Padres are hoping to get at least one young outfielder out of it
God dangit, you beat me to it. I love how ridiculous the proposals got last time this subject was brought up.
God dangit, you beat me to it. I love how ridiculous the proposals got last time this subject was brought up.
I’m thinking Kelly, Iglesias, Rizzo and Reddick. Sounds like a lot, but Hoyer seems unwilling to trade A-Gon, so something has to budge. Lol
Substitute Iglesias out for just about any other two eligible Sox prospects (Noting Ranaudo is ineligible) and I’d probably make the deal. I am just unwilling to watch Iglesias go.
I’m thinking Kelly, Iglesias, Rizzo and Reddick. Sounds like a lot, but Hoyer seems unwilling to trade A-Gon, so something has to budge. Lol
Red Sox would be dumb to include Kelly for one year of A-Gon. I don’t think that’s going to happen.
Who says it’s only for 1 year of A-Gon? Who says Kelly amounts to anything anyways? All speculation.
If the Sox do all this work to trade for A-Gon than you can guarantee that they are breaking the bank to sign an extension. If they trade for him noway they let him walk at the end of the year via free agency. Don’t be surprised if they do trade for him that an extension is already in place.
Red Sox would be dumb to include Kelly for one year of A-Gon. I don’t think that’s going to happen.
I can’t see how Fuentes is not involved in this deal. He has crazy upside and the Sox will not include Iglesias in a deal unfortunately. The Padres need at least a top notch pitching and fielding prospect in this deal. I’m thinking Kelly, Britton or Pimental, Fuentes, and Gibson. Is that to much to ask?
As I’ve said before, prospects are not guaranteed to become stars or even Majoe Leaugers, so when a team like Boston who has the money to sign Gonzalez to an extension, has the chance to acquire him for nothing off of there ML rosyer they would be crazy not to.
I GUARANTEE you that Ellsbury is not even whispered in any of those trade talks. We HAVE plenty of OF’s, including a CF tath only makde 400 k. We need infield help BAD. Cabrera MIGHT be a servicable 2nd, but he is done as a SS.
Lowie, Kelly. Rizzo, and ?
Pimentel
hoyer has a list of prospects hes interested in but instead you want to offer up our starting center fielder? dude you should be a gm!
Actually, I should be a GM.
a true knowledgeable guy on all teams it seems lots of respect to you
Rizzo’s numbers are no better then the Padres Matt Clarks. Clark will start the year at AAA and will be MLB ready in 2012. Secondly, the Padres still have big Kyle Blanks who is also a first baseman by trade. Iglasis, Kalish, Kelly, Doubrant plus 2 lower level top prospects.
I feel the same way. I got confidence in Blanks and even if he doesn’t pan out, we still have Clark, Freiman, and possibly Cody Decker if he keeps hitting. No need for another first baseman. Kelly, Kalish, and Iglesias to start would be awesome.
If we did acquire Rizzo I think that means Hoyer isn’t done dealing. We could easily flip him or one of the aforementioned first base prospects in a package for a catcher or middle infielder prospect. Something tells me the Brew Crew might be interested since they are going to lose Prince. Lawrie perhaps?
You could be on to something…. even though I think Rizzo has more upside than clark, freiman and Decker. The Padres now have way too many 1b prospects that will be stuck between high a and aaa. A deal could happen. The big question is who is going to play 1B for the Padres this year with Blanks likely not returning until mid summer?
I feel the same way. I got confidence in Blanks and even if he doesn’t pan out, we still have Clark, Freiman, and possibly Cody Decker if he keeps hitting. No need for another first baseman. Kelly, Kalish, and Iglesias to start would be awesome.
If we did acquire Rizzo I think that means Hoyer isn’t done dealing. We could easily flip him or one of the aforementioned first base prospects in a package for a catcher or middle infielder prospect. Something tells me the Brew Crew might be interested since they are going to lose Prince. Lawrie perhaps?
Wow I’ve never heard of the Red Sox trying to trade for Adrian Gonzalez before have you guys. This is a complete shocker to me.
Why did this make MLBTR and not the Red Sox offering Mo the exact same contract as the Yankees and Mo staying put?
It did as an excerpt in the Mo post.
Ah! I see it thanks!
Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone
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it rings a bell…hmm but cant put a year on it…
it rings a bell…hmm but cant put a year on it…
The cubs should give the padres a ring.
I completely misinterpreted the end of this sentence, then looked at your username, and well, I won’t go any further.
ill give you that one that was good. But the Cubs are worring me bc there not doing nothing and we need a 1b man badly
cubs are not in it due to money…for the millionth time rickets said he is not going to allow hendry to be a big spender this off season
ill give you that one that was good. But the Cubs are worring me bc there not doing nothing and we need a 1b man badly
what kind of ring? maybe a diamond ring?
may have to be a big @$$ ring
may have to be a big @$$ ring
what kind of ring? maybe a diamond ring?
The Jays need to jump in on this. They need a first baseman and were rumored to be interested in A-Gon. If San Diego is only looking for minor leaguers then the Jays have a lot to offer. Apparently, the Padres are looking for pitching help and the Jays can offer Drabek, Stewart, or Deck. Common A.A, get it on this.
They can not offer Deck McGuire.
is that because he didnt pitch in the jays system after he was signed last year?
No, he has to stay with the team for a calendar year after he was signed
ahhhh i thought i knew it all, apparently not lol
thanks man
Haha its okay dude. Anytime
ahhhh i thought i knew it all, apparently not lol
thanks man
No, he has to stay with the team for a calendar year after he was signed
As a PTBNL they can. I think.
No they can not, not until February 16th
Agreed. I think either the Orioles or Jays could put packages together that would decimate Boston.
such as?
jays: drabek, arencibia, hechavarria?orioles: britton, tillman, avery?
as a jays fan, thats a huge package. thats probably what it would take to pry him out of san diego though. AZ was asking for 5 players for Upton and I think A-Gon is worth more because he has proved more.
not enough from baltimore and too much toronto IMO
I would gladly take that Jays package.
I think the Orioles can…Pie/Hoes/Britton.
Nowhere close to enough.
I think the Orioles can…Pie/Hoes/Britton.
neither can pay long term for the guy why trade the farm for a year of Agon especially if you got a division as tough boston is likely getting him long term
How the hell do you figure that? Do you work for either team?
Deck cant be traded…and as good as gonzalez is, he doesn’t push the jays over the edge.. Its just bad timing.. maybe in 2 years its a good deal.. for now just stockpile arms, draft well and develop…
AA wants to build a dynasty, not a team that loses in the ALDS and doesn’t make the playoffs the next year.
I figure that A-Gon is still young and can grow with the team. He isnt a player to put you over the top now but I still believe he is a valuable piece of the puzzle to build around.
I figure that A-Gon is still young and can grow with the team. He isnt a player to put you over the top now but I still believe he is a valuable piece of the puzzle to build around.
You can’t trade draft picks within a year of drafting them – just to elaborate on Span’s point there.
You can trade a 2010 draft choice as a PTBNL six months before the one-year anniversary of their signing a MLB contract. If the contract was signed on 6-15-10, the player could be traded 12-15-10.
A team receiving a PTBNL has six months to identify the player.
You can’t trade draft picks within a year of drafting them – just to elaborate on Span’s point there.
The Jays need to jump in on this. They need a first baseman and were rumored to be interested in A-Gon. If San Diego is only looking for minor leaguers then the Jays have a lot to offer. Apparently, the Padres are looking for pitching help and the Jays can offer Drabek, Stewart, or Deck. Common A.A, get it on this.
If it takes 3 minor league players to sign AGon then its a good deal for BoSox. I say this because they get a high draft pick (#23) for V-Mart + a supplemental pick and they will get two draft pics if Beltre signs else where. Not too shabby if you think this way.
If it takes 3 minor league players to sign AGon then its a good deal for BoSox. I say this because they get a high draft pick (#23) for V-Mart + a supplemental pick and they will get two draft pics if Beltre signs else where. Not too shabby if you think this way.
Question to Boston fans: Adrian and Youk or Youk and Beltre?
im not a red sox fan but if i was then id take a-gon and youk hands down. beltre still has to prove that he can play well when hes not in a contract year
The first one please!
Adrian and Youk. And that’s tough for me to say, as one of the biggest Beltre supporters out there. But its just a better setup, offensively, especially in Fenway. It would be nice to have Beltre’s defense, and being right-handed is useful in the AL East with monster lefties like Sabathia, Pettite, Matusz, Price, and those Blue Jays guys…But I think A-Gons overall production is more valuable than Beltre’s right-handedness. And since Youk is already preparing to play third base by working out only at that position over the offseason, I think he’ll at least be average. Knowing him, hopefully slightly above average even.
Adrian and Beltre 😛
Adrian and Beltre 😛
Adrian and Adrian?
Or just… AAADDDRRRRIIIIAANNN! (Someone here better have seen Rocky)
Yoo Adriaaan!
Or just… AAADDDRRRRIIIIAANNN! (Someone here better have seen Rocky)
Beltre costs money, Agon costs prospects and a not so cheap contract extension.
2010 Beltre: 7.1 WAR
2010 A-Gon: 5.3 WAR
Career high, Beltre: 10.1 WAR!
Career high, A-Gon: 6.5 WAR
Yeah, yeah, “Beltre only performs in a career year” and all that nonsense, but he doesn’t cost any top prospects and the last two seasons he’s been in a real offense (i.e. not the Mariners) he’s been a monster.
I think though, factoring in A-Gons hopeful big improvement from moving to a super hitter-friendly park, especially for pull lefties, like Fenway, would probably bump him right up into the 6.5-7.5 WAR range pretty easily.
“10.1 WAR”
Was that his last year with the Dodgers?
“10.1 WAR”
Was that his last year with the Dodgers?
There is the proof that WAR is not everything folks. The good ole eye test will tell you all you need to know. AGON>Beltre. Easily.
Beltre is a ridiculous defender at a more premium position, and on top of that has a history of putting up better offensive numbers than A-Gon (including last year). He also doesn’t cost any prospects. Sorry for being rational, go ahead and knock yourselves out with the A-Gon love-fest.
Beltre has had TWO monster years, BOTH in contract years. Nuff said. He will go back to his normal .240 BA next year. Everyone hits better in Fenway, just think what AG will do. He might hit 60 doubles.
“and on top of that has a history of putting up better offensive numbers than A-Gon (including last year).”
Beltre 162 Game Average – .275/.328/.462 for an OPS of .791
Gonzalez 162 Game Average – .284/.368/.507 for an OPS of .875
You must have meant that Gonzalez has a history of putting up better offensive numbers (other than the two statistical outliers from Beltre in 2004 and 2010).
“the last two seasons he’s been in a real offense (i.e. not the Mariners) he’s been a monster.”
If A-Gon was in a real offense (i.e. not the Padres) in a hitter’s park, he has the potential to have a 300/400/600 line every year. The dude has serious talent, and is a very smart hitter.
I think people are really more concerned that he’s only healthy in contract years.
2010 Beltre: 7.1 WAR
2010 A-Gon: 5.3 WAR
Career high, Beltre: 10.1 WAR!
Career high, A-Gon: 6.5 WAR
Yeah, yeah, “Beltre only performs in a career year” and all that nonsense, but he doesn’t cost any top prospects and the last two seasons he’s been in a real offense (i.e. not the Mariners) he’s been a monster.
While I like Beltre, if the Sox have a shot at getting Gonzalez it needs to get done!
im a tigers fan but id rather take gonzo. beltre only does well on contract years and boston hasnt even offered him a contract yet
im a tigers fan but id rather take gonzo. beltre only does well on contract years and boston hasnt even offered him a contract yet
LOL, i was thinking the same thing.
Adrian and Youk, I like our left fielder’s ribs intact thank you very much…
How about Adrian AND Adrian at 1b & 3b, AND Youk…in LF?!
Or Youk in a DH/3B/1B rotation giving both Adrains regular rest. Sadly obviously never going to happen.
Definitely AGon and Youk…
A lot of people are saying that AGon costs prospects AND money…but that’s part of the purpose of prospects. They can’t all fit on the major league roster, but even then, you stockpile them for when you come upon a good trade…like this one.
And I don’t know if my logic is right here, but the way FA compensation works, it’s better to bring in other people’s FA than resign your own. If you sign a type A and lose a type A, you still end up with 1 first round and 1 sandwich. So we give up 4 prospects (who aren’t major league ready, and thus, still not certain) for AGon, but we pick up 4 extra picks in the strong 2011 draft from the departure of Beltre and Matrinez. Doesn’t sound bad at all to me! And something I’ve said all along was, if they sign Beltre now, they’ll lack flexibility to sign a big 1B for the next few years. And on top of that, Beltre has to prove that he can perform in a non-walk year.
Also, now we’ve got a big lefty set for the next half decade (assuming an extension works out), exactly what’s needed to replace Ortiz.
Definitely AGon and Youk…
A lot of people are saying that AGon costs prospects AND money…but that’s part of the purpose of prospects. They can’t all fit on the major league roster, but even then, you stockpile them for when you come upon a good trade…like this one.
And I don’t know if my logic is right here, but the way FA compensation works, it’s better to bring in other people’s FA than resign your own. If you sign a type A and lose a type A, you still end up with 1 first round and 1 sandwich. So we give up 4 prospects (who aren’t major league ready, and thus, still not certain) for AGon, but we pick up 4 extra picks in the strong 2011 draft from the departure of Beltre and Matrinez. Doesn’t sound bad at all to me! And something I’ve said all along was, if they sign Beltre now, they’ll lack flexibility to sign a big 1B for the next few years. And on top of that, Beltre has to prove that he can perform in a non-walk year.
Also, now we’ve got a big lefty set for the next half decade (assuming an extension works out), exactly what’s needed to replace Ortiz.
Question to Boston fans: Adrian and Youk or Youk and Beltre?
If I was Boston I would be worried about who they will have to give up as he is the franchise player in San Diego!
If I was Boston I would be worried about who they will have to give up as he is the franchise player in San Diego!
Rizzo and Lars Anderson should be more then enough to get Gonzalez in a Red Sox uniform.
For Diamond Notes, I’m Peter Gammons.
Bravo, sir. Bravo.
Bravo, sir. Bravo.
That made me literally laugh out loud.
Is Kalish still considered a “minor leaguer” ?
Is there an official definition? Or are you asking is he officially a rookie? Or are you asking is he major league ready?He has 163 major leauge at bats so he’s certainly no seasoned major leaguer but he has over 130 ABs so he won’t be eligible for any rookie of the year award. Considering he handled himself well in Boston I’d say he could take the helm in center for a major league team next year.
Just curious if ppl think Edes’ comment would rule out including Kalish in a deal. As you point out, he’s technically not really a “minor leaguer” anymore but still has rookie status…he’d be a very attractive option for the Padres and when paired with Kelly, makes as good a 1-2 prospect duo as anybody.
As a Pads fan, I’d hope that Kalish’s trivial amount of major league experience wouldn’t rule him out. Petco’s OF really requires having two legit CF out there and having Kalish/Maybin/Venable patrolling the OF would make for some impressive athleticism and excellent D. 60-70 SB between them isn’t bad either…
Eh, the day I understand a sports writers speculations is the same day I have to check my self into a mental ward because it’ll mean I understand crazy people.
He’s not a rookie anymore tho
Kalish should not be ruled out. Kalish is not an established major leaguer, although he is “major league ready”. I believe when saying minor leaguers he was referring to non established Major Leagers. I can not imaging the Padres making a deal without getting a single major league ready player. The padres would be asking for fuentes/iglesias/kelly/rizzo if no major league ready players like kalish are considered.
Trading to the Sox just makes the most sense for the Padres. I only say that because of their knowledge of the Sox system. It just works for them.
AGon is a beast. been tearing it up with a rubbish Padres lineup around him….it cracks me up seeing these rubbish trades redsox fans come up with
kelly and Iglesias are both highly overated…Kalish and Nava are rubbish
Kelly is only 21 and has 2 or 3 well developed pitches. He’s ahead of the learning curve. Iglesias needs bat work but he’s arguably the best defensive short stop in any teams system. Kalish was a monster when he was on the Sox last season, he proved that, if the Sox needed, they could start him.
As for Nava…..
Kelly is only 21 and has 2 or 3 well developed pitches. He’s ahead of the learning curve. Iglesias needs bat work but he’s arguably the best defensive short stop in any teams system. Kalish was a monster when he was on the Sox last season, he proved that, if the Sox needed, they could start him.
As for Nava…..
Anyone who knows even the slightest bit about the Red Sox farm system knows the following:1) Scouts continue to agree Kelly has the potential to be an ace.2) Iglesias has the potential to have a glove that’s the love child of Ozzie Smith and Omar Vizquel… but will probably be a #9 hitter.3) Kalish has the potential to hit 15-20 hrs a season, steal 30-40 bases, and be a decent outfielder.4) No one considers Nava a prospect… he’s a great feel good story. He’s the Rudy of the Boston Red Sox.On the other hand people who simply don’t like the Red Sox say “kelly and Iglesias are both highly overated…Kalish and Nava are rubbish”
The key word in all that is “potential”. A-gone is proven and would likely significantly increase his production in the AL East.
From England?
From England?
I’d give Kelly, Rizzo, Pimentel, Reddick, and maybe a guy like Stephen Fife.
All good prospects, Kelly and Rizzo of course being the main attraction, however Pimentel is a solid young talent too. Reddick might be able to translate those AAA numbers better in the NL, Fife is a nice young pitcher, has some upside
Not sure how much success Reddick would have on the Padres. If it is a power hitting guy I would want a right handed bat rather than a lefty. Petco is tough on lefty power hitters. Kalish and his athleticism would play well there though.
Make it Kelly, Rizzo, Lowrie and I’m sold.
I’d give Kelly, Rizzo, Pimentel, Reddick, and maybe a guy like Stephen Fife.
All good prospects, Kelly and Rizzo of course being the main attraction, however Pimentel is a solid young talent too. Reddick might be able to translate those AAA numbers better in the NL, Fife is a nice young pitcher, has some upside
Just waiting for Century to say how much AGon will suck as soon as he is traded to the Red Sox…
Just waiting for Century to say how much AGon will suck as soon as he is traded to the Red Sox…
ADRIAN AND YOUKILIS, easily
make the deal Theo, do whatever it takes to get this guy to Fenway(Ellsbury, Kalish, Rizzo, whatever i dont care just make this deal happen), Seriously, make it happen
AGON is built for Fenway Park
I think this could end up being a great move for the Pads, especially if they can land several prospects in an exchange. I think they will be gun shy about pulling the trigger though, like they have before… They might gauge the hype and then have a free-for-all before the late season trade deadline. The short porch in RF at Fenway should be pretty exciting for A-Gon too.
The thing that’s different about this trade as opposed to other is that the Pads front office knows the system real well. They’ve scouted and watched these prospects a lot so they know exactly what they’re getting.
Which is also kind of scary for Boston, because they know our prospects weaknesses better than any other farm system….but they also know our prospects personally, know their strengths, and might feel more confident in their abilities to continue to grow. Double-edged sword I guess.
Think positively, they know what players would reasonably release the vice grip on A Gon so he can be a Sox!
Think positively, they know what players would reasonably release the vice grip on A Gon so he can be a Sox!
Actually, RF is not Fenway’s short porch. Its 389 feet to RF, except for a sliver near the foul pole (called the Pesky Pole). There’s talk of enlarging the bullpen in right by 9 feet, which would make RF 380 feet. Still not a short porch, but I have no doubt A-Gonz will be able to reach it more than 30 times a season.
Actually, RF is not Fenway’s short porch. Its 389 feet to RF, except for a sliver near the foul pole (called the Pesky Pole). There’s talk of enlarging the bullpen in right by 9 feet, which would make RF 380 feet. Still not a short porch, but I have no doubt A-Gonz will be able to reach it more than 30 times a season.
I think this could end up being a great move for the Pads, especially if they can land several prospects in an exchange. I think they will be gun shy about pulling the trigger though, like they have before… They might gauge the hype and then have a free-for-all before the late season trade deadline. The short porch in RF at Fenway should be pretty exciting for A-Gon too.
I really only have one comment for this: My fingers are crossed.
you’ll need to cross your toes as well…I don’t see a deal getting done without Lowrie or Ellsbury…two Major Leaguers.
They were already crossed. Despite that it says minor leaguers, my bet is a deal around Kelly and Lowrie.
I agree, although I think Rizzo and Pimentel might be in mix as well. As could Felix Sanchez and Ryan Lavarnway.
Who’s Felix Sanchez?
The most underrated Red Sox prospect, and one of Baseball’s very underrated prospects.
Tell me more. Cause….I thought you meant Felix Doubront. So now I’m all confused. 😀
Felix Sanchez, not Doubront, is mega fast, and can defend, search him on MiLB and on google video or prospect tube
Sanchez is so far away though. Plenty of speed guys never make it above AA. So far he’s never had more than 258 AB in a season and has a total of 1 hr to his name. His SB rate is about 75% and his KO rate is 24%. At age 20 w/ less than 300 AB above NYPN lge he has a long way to go. His career line is .279/.364/.345 in 557 PA since 2008.
Yeah dude, just pointing out that he might be a throw in, and your absolutley right (like always) that speed hits don’t always make it, although Felix gets on base.
It really depends on what the Pads see as their time table. Do they see 2012 as the year to start winning it all? Or 2014? If you want to win as fast as possible the deal has to be around Lowrie and Kalish. They can be plugged into the lineup quickly. But if the Pads want a year or 2 to develop someone, then you’re looking at guys like Pimentel, Lavarnway, etc.
Sure thing. Plenty of possibilities.
I think if the cards all fall right they could be competitive in 2012. Though that would require Castro, Luebke, Blanks, Maybin all meeting at least most of their potential.
Rotation of Latos, Castro, Richard, Stauffer, Luebke.
Lineup of Lowrie (potentially), Headley, Blanks, Venable, Darnell/Cunningham, Maybin, Hundley, Forsythe/Cumberland.
Their bullpen still has great depth and a steady stream of top notch relief prospects coming.
They should also have $$ to spend in 2012 to fill in holes if some guys don’t pan out. Also maybe in 2012, but definitely in 2013 you’d add Jaff Freaking Decker to the mix. Plus whatever other prospects they get from the Sox and potential Bell trade sometime in the next year.
There are also 3-4 top level starting pitching prospects at the various A levels in the Padre system. There is a big 6’8″ pitcher named Matt Lollis that may be ready for MLB in late 2012. I would take Kelly, Kalish and Doubront and then have the Red Sox trade Ellsbury or anyone else to acquire that good hitting AAA Catcher from the Blue Jays. That would give the Padres 4 for 1. That would give the Red Sox an annual MVP, Gold Glove first baseman. All of you guys complain about giving up prospects and then having to pay Adrian his contract; however, its not your money, who cares what it costs to sign Adrian. Adrian is the perfect long term answer for the Red Sox and of all the superstars in the game today, is among the youngest.
you’ll need to cross your toes as well…I don’t see a deal getting done without Lowrie or Ellsbury…two Major Leaguers.
I really only have one comment for this: My fingers are crossed.
BoSox get this get done and they are back in a the mix right with the Yankees
100% correct the line-up’s would match up extremely well
I’d pick them over the Yankees. Even if the Yanks add Lee the Red Sox have the superior rotation. With the addition of A-Gon if the Sox could just stay healthy their line up would be just as potent. Both teams have some work to do on their bullpens.
THEO! GET THIS DONE PRONTO!
THEO! GET THIS DONE PRONTO!
Bout time. This should have happened a year or two ago.
Am I the only one who thinks SD asks for Lars?
Eh, if they ask for Anderson it’ll be more of a “oh, throw in Lars.” His trade value is pretty low. If they’re asking for a first base prospect they’d probably ask for Rizzo, his stock is rising.
I don’t know that I would consider him a “throw in” because he does have the potential to be a good(not great) major league 1B, but they would definitely prefer Rizzo, by a long shot.
My point was more that Anderson really lacks major value. I don’t see him being a piece that makes or breaks a AGon deal.
Gotcha, that makes sense.
Padres need pitching prospects plus infield/catching help. So no AAAA outfield prospects, i.e. Nava and Kalish please. Also center field is taken by Maybrin, so no need for Ellsbury (besides the fact that he is a Boras client and will soon be too expensive anyway)
Are you really gonna roll with Maybin? Yes he’s still young, but he hasn’t proven himself like Ellsbury has.
Given the fact that Ellsbury will be arbitration eligible next year and will command a lot of money, I would think the Padres have minimal interest in him. Fuentes and/or Kalish will have to be included IMO.
Ryan Kalish is the second best prospect the Sox have and is only 22 he is not a AAAA player.
Either he has Kalish confused with Reddick or he’s just clueless. I’d be delighted to keep Kalish.
Ehhh, I wouldn’t call Kalish AAAA,Nava sure.
Padres need pitching prospects plus infield/catching help. So no AAAA outfield prospects, i.e. Nava and Kalish please. Also center field is taken by Maybrin, so no need for Ellsbury (besides the fact that he is a Boras client and will soon be too expensive anyway)
WOW!!!!!!! Epstein is good, I hope Mets front office reached his level
Nothing has happened yet man.
The level of learning how to pick up a phone and calling to try to get players to upgrade a team? Yeah the Mets front office has been deficient in that recently…
WOW!!!!!!! Epstein is good, I hope Mets front office reached his level
Hey Edes if you wrong I’M personally going to fire you.
Hey Edes if you wrong I’M personally going to fire you.
AGone for Casey Kelly, Anthony Rizzo, Ryan Kalish, Jose Iglesias
Everyone else is throwing this stuff out, I’m joining in the party damnit
iglesias is to much add in lowrie and bowden
No wants Bowden, or really even Lowrie though he’s at least a maybe.
AGone for Casey Kelly, Anthony Rizzo, Ryan Kalish, Jose Iglesias
Everyone else is throwing this stuff out, I’m joining in the party damnit
aidos mios! not this again!
aidos mios! not this again!
A possible side effect to this A Gonzalez trade is the Tampa Bay Rays might then consider their team totally out of contention with their free agent losses, financial constraints, improved Red Sox and Yankees, and punt 2011.
Doubt it. Rays have more variables next season but a few smart trades and a few buy low signings and they’re still contenders.
not with there rotation it will take some work but there still a competitive team
Trade Idea:- Padres acquire SS J.Iglesias, 1b M.Rizzo, RHP’s C.Kelly & Stolmy Pimentel & OF J.Reddick from the RedSox in exchanged for 1b A.Gonzalez & RHP H.bell.
GOnzalez.. guarantee.. will sign a contract similar to Texiera; 7yr 180mill.
It all sounds good except for Iglesias.And I don’t know who M. Rizzo is. I know an Anthony Rizzo…are they brothers? 🙂
Why would San Diego do a deal without Iglesias? That’s their most glaring need. Perhaps Kelly, Kalish, Lowrie and Doubront or something gets them interested but that would completely gut an already weak farm system.
Actually that trade would leave the Sox with most of their prospects, as most of our best prospects are in the lower minors still.
SD wants Reynolds, so this makes sense. They move Reynolds to 1B. Sounds like Heath Bell wants a 3 yr deal and they dont want to pay him, maybe Towers gets Bell for Reynolds. SD has guys that can be the closer right now. SD would get rid of salary of AGon and Bell and pick up Reynolds salary who is locked up.
I really don’t know why San Diego wants Reynolds and his K’s so bad. I wish Hoyer would buy into this, ” built for Petco ” line he keeps using and build a team reminescent of the Cardinals of the 80’s. Nothing but speed, top to bottom in the lineup and in the field. Minus Jack Clark and Pedro Guerrero those teams never had another power guy.
I think the SD is interested in Reynolds talk was just a false rumor. I would be really surprised if that was a guy the Padres were interested in. Headley has proven himself to be better than Reynolds and I’d take my chances with Blanks over adding Reynolds to play 1B.
I hope this gets done, and soon. That way maybe there will be a bit more of a market for Prince Fielder and the Brewers can actually get some pitching for him.
Can this just happen already I am so sick of hearing about it. How much foreplay do these two teams need to just get it in. My god seriously either do it or don’t and move on either way
I would actually prefer holding onto Lowrie over Iglesias to be honest. We are just going to restock good prospects in every draft anyway. Plus if Lowrie can play like he did last season over a full healthy year he would be one of the better SS in the league.
Should Khalish be in this deal?
We will not trade Iglesias because this regime was also there when we traded away Hanley, granted it was worth a WS but to watch him someone else and being a top talent at his position still hurts.
The trade will be AGON for Rizzo, Britton, Pimentel and Kalish or Reddick, whomever Jed likes better. We will not move Casey Kelly nor Iglesias. This is his last year in contract, but lets not be absurd and think we are trading a top 20 prospect (Kelly) for him. Rizzo and Britton are both top 100 prospects and Pimentels upside is keeping him on the fringe and he is only 20 years old. Kalish will be tough to lose but it always takes something to get something,
It is similar as the other teams mentioned. The orioles would not give up britton whom is a legitimate #2 starter nor would TOR give up Drabek. I know all of you prospect people just look for a guy in the top 100 and think a team would trade him for this guy, BUT in reality a #2/3 starter possible ace for 5 years of controllable pay is much better than a guy who could be better for 18-22M annually.
So you are saying you are going to get a top 5 first basemen without giving up your top two prospects??? Reddick and Kalish are both overrated. You didn’t give them any true major league talent. While Rizzo and Britton I agree with you, Padres have to ask for one of those top two or possibly ellsbury
If you don’t believe at least half a dozen teams will beat that offer, you’re crazy. If the Red Sox get him be prepared, it’s going to hurt.
Please name a half dozen teams that:
a) Need a first baseman
b) Would be willing and able to beat that offer
c) Can afford to pay Gonzales
I think Kelly can move. I don’t want to lose Iglesias either though. Kelly though should be the centerpiece. Him and Lowrie, plus Rizzo and a Kalish or Pimentel or somebody.
I think that’s a pretty fair trade for both sides there.
kelly isn’t a top 20 prospect. He was #24 last season(baseball america) and had a horrendous season. I mean, HORRENDOUS. Sorry, just because they are in the red sox system doesn’t make them any better of prospects.
Looking at stats might suggest he had a down year, but I wouldn’t go so far to call it horrendous. From what I’ve read in Baseball America, managers and scouts were still impressed by his poise and stuff this year, and seemed not to lose much confidence in him, if any at all. On top of that, he was still young for AA.
Horrendous? As the youngest pitcher in his league the guy had a 4.03 FIP and increased his velocity. But yeah, keep looking at ERA in a vaccum to judge the performance of prospects. It always amuses me when people who have no idea about a prospect speak like they hold the gospel. Kelly might not be top 20, but he isn’t far off either. He’s more than capable to headline a deal for a guy one season away from free agency. It has nothing to do with the red sox system.
i wasn’t looking at ERA. i was looking at the entire stat line. but go ahead and make assumptions about people. Your exact words were he was top 20. I’d say he is top 40. pitching prospects with “ace” potential i’d take over Kelly..Hellickson, Teheran, Miller, and possibly Parker. No one says he sucked. He had a really bad year. That hurts his stock. I think the padres would be perfectly happy with kelly as a centerpiece but don’t make him bigger than he really is..
Actually Theo was on his gorilla suit vacation when Hanley was traded and has said in the past that he would not have made that trade with Hanley as a part of it.
Here we go again…
Honestly I would hold onto Kalish too. Give em Iglesias, Kelly, Pimentel, and Lars Anderson. If they dont take it they are idiots. We still will have Rizzo, Vitek, Ranaudo, Britton ect. and more coming because we spend on the draft. Keep Kalish, Ellsbury, and Lowrie! We will need them.
How are they idiots when a) Agonz has no leverage and can’t demand an extension b) Agonz is only owed 1/$5.5 mil which makes him affordable to anyone that wants him
one of the best deals 5.5 the padres dont have much leverage either there unlikely to sign him theyd lose him for a few draft picks but no kelly iglasias rizzo ect
Excellent. You take away Gonzo from the Pads, you take away any serious offensive threat in that WHOLE lineup. Do it. With Selig’s postseason extension proposition (Which no ones opposing) into play, Red Sox Yanks and Rays are gonna all make the playoffs anyways. Meanwhile Gonzo is out of the NL West. Padres are cleaning house! No more Tejada, Garland, Young. Keep it going!
I’m a Padres fan and a huge Gonzo fan, but trading Gonzalez is the right move for the franchise. Sure with Gonzalez we have a chance to compete next year, but trading him we have a good chance to compete for the 4+ years after that. Hoyer would be dumb to let Gonzalez walk and only get 2 draft picks in return.
The Padres have the chance to build a really solid farm system, which is exactly what a team with a payroll south of $50M needs to stay competitive. We already have some solid talent in the lower levels, then we have the opportunity to add some talent with Gonzo and Bell trades, plus the 5 picks we will get before the 2nd round in next year’s draft. The farm system is the lifeblood of a low payroll team.
Great post, good to see a fellow Padres fan actually understands the only possible way a small market team can compete in a MLB with no salary cap. Some people seem to blame ownership and call us gutless for letting him leave, but there’s no just way we can afford him. Might as well get max value for him when the opportunity is there.
I agree. I don’t blame management for moving him. If they offer $7/$160 and cant build around him then that would be a problem. The Padres are kind of damned if you do and damned if you don’t. Trade him and the casual fans go in an uproar about getting rid of the best player. Let him leave in free agency and the fans will complain they got nothing for him. Resign him to the crazy(although well deserved) extension he covets and they will not be able to build a competetive team.
I agree we should get a good haul for Gonz; however, if the Padres get back most of that pap the Red Sox posters are suggesting we are in trouble. There are only two players from the Sox group I would want [Kelly and Doubront]. If the Red Sox want Gonz, they better get busy and trade for AA and AAA prospects the Padres need instead of trying to push a Rizzo on us. Rizzo is not any better then the first baseman [Clark] the Padres already have. Why would we want another one?
I am still a little peeved that the Padres have to have a payroll at $40mm. That is significantly less then what it was at Qualcomm Stadium 8 years ago. The San Diego Taxpayers voted for a new ballpark so that we could have a competitve payroll; however, now we are getting screwed. We were sold a bill of goods that said if we vote for a new stadium, the Padres will be competitive in bidding for free agents. This team still draws near 2.5 million, with attendance over $3mm for the first several years at PETCO. Having a payroll at $40mm is such b.s. and all the so called hardcore fans are ok with it? I am not ok with it. Dont give me that crap about what a small TV market it is either. San Diego Metropolitan area is in the top ten in the U.S. and we will have a smaller payroll then the Pittsburgh Pirates in 2011, geez, do you have any bridges you want to sell me why you are at it lol.
What you’re experiencing is basball’s version of the shell game. The Padres owners are going back to hiding revenues from their fans and putting it back into their pockets. The trading of Gonzales is the prime example. First they slash his salary from the books and replace him with players under control and away from salary Arbitration for a few years, thus saving millions. Then the teams falls from contention and becomes eligible for Revenue Sharing once again. We’ve seen what teams like KC, Pittsburgh and Florida has done with the monies they’ve received from the Luxury tax, pocketed and cried poverty. That’s what the Padres are doing again.
You have come to the realization and should join with fans of your like and bring it out and make all the fans know what’s going on. Put pressure on the owners to give you a team that at least competes by putting out a representative product on the field.
to get agon redsox fans need to be realistic they will be stripping their farm system…every team that gets involved in this deal would be doing the same thing. You are taking about taking a top 5 1stbasemen from a team, possibly the second best 1stbasemen in the game right now from a team that does not have to trade him. They could wait till the dead line, they could try and try and try and extend him they could wait offer arb and get 2 picks for sure for him next season….Any player who fans think is untouchable cant be thought of like that anymore…If you want your team to get a-gon your team has to give up those untouchable…My guess for Boston it would be Top 5(in the system) infileding(2nd, ss or 3rd) prospect in other words iglesias(sp).. top 5(in the system) pitching prospect. top 1st prospect+mid level out field prospect+mid level pithing prospect….To get A-gon the team is going to have to part with probably 4-5 of their top ten tallents…and for boston that means youlk at 3rd and with an extension probably no more crawford or werth talk due to the money gonzo would get
“probably no more crawford or werth talk due to the money gonzo would get ”
Gonzales only gets short money in 2011. The big money comes in 2012 after Drew, Ortiz, Papelbon and Wakefield come off the books. So, yeah. There’s still money for Crawford.
Oh yeah, Scutaro and Cameron will be gone, too.
I heard Bowden, Ellsbury, and Dice-K gets it done.
LoL
Ok, time for a lineup:EllsburyCrawfordPedrioaGonzalezYoukilisDrew/KalishLowrieSalty/Varitek
The trading of Gonzalez would most likely mean they go for Werth rather than Crawford because they are both lefties and the Sox would want to probably even out the lineup with a right handed power bat.
Are the Sox switching to an 8 man lineup? And where is Ortiz?
Sorry just had to rib you a little there…
Yeah that was pretty bad. I must still be in denial about picking up that option.
OK, that means they would be too lefty-heavy with Crawford, so just for fun:
Ellsbury
Pedroia
Gonzalez
Youkilis
Ortiz
Werth
Kalish/Drew
Lowrie
Salty/Varitek
Hey it’s all good, I hear the human brain has the ability to completely block out moments of extreme shock or pain…
I think it would be more like:
Ellsbury
Destroia
Crawford
Youk
AGon
Lowrie/Scutaro
Papi
Catcher
Drew
No freaking way would Crawford bat in front of youk and agon there or have lowrie/scutaro protecting Agon….are you crazy?!!
Yeah, probably a little nuts. I was trying to keep the righty/lefty/righty thing but you are probably right. How would you set them up? I put Crawford batting in front of Youk and AGon because he doesn’t want to lead off and I would hate to stick him in the middle of a bunch of slow guys. I, also, guess I have a hard time seeing Pedroia as a #3 hitter instead of Crawford.
I put Youk batting in front of AGon because, with his high OBP he would be a good table setter for AGon to drive home. I guess you could bat AGon 4th, Youk 5th and Papi 6th.
I’m curious how you would set them up.
Personally I would swap 4-5, 6-7, and 8-9 making it something like:
Ellsbury
Pedroia
Crawford
Gonzalez
Youkilis
Ortiz
Lowrie/Scutaro
Drew
Saltalamacchia/Varitek
I know that would make the 3-4 both lefties but I think it would be the best line-up and hey, it works for the twins!
Now we are talking!!!!!!! Get it done! Hopefully we sign him to an extension right away.
If the Sox don’t shell out Casey Kelly I wouldn’t trade Agon to Boston if I were the Padres. When you trade a player like Adrian Gonzalez you better get a great return. Like the Mark Teixeira trade the Padres should get a stud arm(s) and stud position player(s). Something like Jose Iglesias+Lars Anderson+Ryan Kalish+Casey Kelly seems fair. After all Agon is one of the best in the game and there’s only a handful of elite 1st basemen in MLB. It definitely has to hurt the sox to trade for Agon. If Granderson cost the Yankees : Austin Jackson, Phil Coke and Ian Kennedy than one can only imagine the return for Agon.
So basically four of the Red Sox top five prospects? When has this ever happened? Also the deal for Granderson wasn’t that much, I don’t know what you’re talking about….
Thats exactly what it was. Not top 4 of 5 but Yankees gave up all those players just for Granderson.
Phillies sent all of their top prospects except for Domonic Brown to Toronto for Roy Halladay.
Halladay is the best pitcher in baseball. Agon is not the best position player in baseball. That would be Albert Puljos.
Roy is not the best pitcher in baseball!!!!!
Halladay is the best pitcher in baseball. A-gon is not the best position player in baseball. That would be Puljos who Bobby Cox has said is worth 50 mill a year.
source says adrian gonzalez “in town” for a physical? this thing may have some legs after all
what sources? Your magic 8 ball?
SOSH
Not a reliable source. They’re just another board, like this one, only more arrogant. Anybody can say anything.
If this trade happens today, this can render the Winter Meetings as interesting as a Cymbalta party…
That gives the Pads two players they can immediately stick in as regulars (SP and OF) and a promising starter in AA and whatever else they get. The Rays acquire a an inexpensive bat to make up for the loss of Pena and Crawford and still maintain a rotation of Garza, Price, Neiman, Shields and whoever stays from Davis/Hellickson. The OF would be Upton, Jennings and Zobrist. One last dash at winning it all with Agonz and Longo in the middle. And they stick it to the Sox.
That message came out half complete.
Hellickson or Davis, Matt Joyce, Nick Barnese plus lower prospects.
You just don’t want the Sox to get him.
As a Pads fan I’d be happy if Jed could work out a trade with the Rays involving one of their young pitchers and Brignac though.
I would think the Padres would be asking for the following:
Kelly
Kalish
Rizzo
Pimental
I would think:
Jose Iglesias
Anthony Rizzo
Stolmy Pimentel
Jed Lowrie
They have enough arms and OFers
No need to take Lowrie and Iglesias….put Kelley in for Lowrie and you are about right.
I think that is very close to the deal, but now with Heath Bell potentially included, I think they do include Lowrie to fill SD’s SS need and one more mid-level prospect to complete the blockbuster.
Beltre is probably on the phone right now with the A’s signing his deal. If the Red Sox get Gonzo his market goes WAY down.
lemme know if im being naive……is agon’s value at its lowest point now since he recently had surgery and may not be ready for the start of the season, he may never be the same player again…
By squiring Gonzo, the sox would hold about as many chips as we can possibly hope. This will give them room to sign Crawford or Worth and use Ellsbury to get Grienke. I think Theo has a master plan that starts with getting Gonzo. If we don’t get Gonzo I wouldn’t mind keeping Beltre although I don’t think the sox will give him the years he wants. We need to bolster the mound after the inconsistent years our 3-5 had in the rotation. Who knows how that is going to happen.
Well first of all the Red Sox don’t need another starter. Second, the Sox have enough for one big trade not 2… outside of teams in video games I don’t know who would.
Three-way trade! Three-way trade! Three-way trade!
makes sense if they want to move Ells
Just because WEEI hates Ellsbury doesn’t mean the Red Sox do.
i hate him
Absolutely agree, but if they want to use him as part of the deal instead of, say, Kalish it makes sense.
^This. 3-way with the Padres and Dbacks bringing us Gonzalez and Upton for Kelly, Iglesias, Lowrie, Ellsbury, Kalish, Doubront, Rizzo, Fuentes, and Exposito. Then sign Crawford.
Wake up from your wet dream
What is this? Three ways and wet dreams? I thought we were talking about baseball?
Could be on of the silliest proposals of all time
I think the Mets should get involved. They can offer Ike Davis and a prospect or two, no other team including the Red Sox can offer back a Major League ready first basemen who can produce in the lineup.
Rangers (Moreland), Mariners (Smoak), Blue Jays (Wallace), Braves (Freeman), Red (Alonso) and Royals (Killer Kila, Hosmer, Mous). But I get your point.
blue jays moved wallace to houston for anthony gose
My bad.
Brandon Belt, second best 1B prospect to Hosmer.
Back in July, every time someone proposed a deal that included a 1B in return, Padres fans said they already had a top MLB-ready 1B waiting in the wings. What happened to him?
I assume you’re refering to Kyle Blanks. He was hurt for most of 2010 and I think had TJ or shoulder surgery or something. He had a poor showing in 2010 @ .157/.283/.324 in 102 AB but overall has hit 13 hrs in 250 AB from 2009-2010. He can play 1B and LF but my guess is they would prefer to keep him at 1B.
Things you need to know about the padres:
C: Hundley is penciled in as the starter but has yet to prove he can handle starter duties. Hagerty is a Beast that nobody talks about; he’s a great hitter and rising fast. He was named the best Catcher in A ball; and the only A level starter (everyone else was in High A) to make the first team.
1b: The pads don’t need players like Anderson when trading Agon because Blanks is viewed as the 1st of the future. He did terrible last year but he was playing with a sore elbow and had Tommy John surgery. With that being the case he’s not due back until June; and that is the main reason I think Agon won’t be traded until the deadline. Matt Clark is also a prospect and was a star player at LSU that led the pads system in homers last year.
2nd: Forsythe was moved to 2nd and will probably play in AAA. Galvez has high upside but is in the lower minors; and theirs two other guys that have a chance but I don’t believe in them.
3rd: The team has 4 prospects that all are arguably better players than Headley. Darnell is the highest rated but I think he’s overrated. He has good pop but he doesn’t dominate in the box and I don’t think he get handle the next level. Forsythe can move back to 3rd or play 2nd; Rincon is supposed to have an amazing bat; but he will probably be traded to the AL in the future to DH; and Gyorko has jumped into some analysts top 3 padre prospects overall and is said to have the most advance bat in the system currently.
SS: Cumberland is a shortstop prospect despite what you read and hit 350 in High A last year before getting injured. Caberea still has some potential but this is easily the teams weakest position. Up the middle the pads are flawed so that’s why I think they would want Iglesias.
OF: Venable, Maybin, Ludwick will be starting and Cunningham, Durango, and Denorfia will all be battling for the 4th spot. Guys like Kullbaki, Hunter, Robertson, and others like Decker, Tate, Williams, and Liriano are also future options with upside.
The team also has Jerry Hairston jr as super utility.
On pitching side they have the best bullpen in baseball but as far as SP go:
Latos, Stuaffer, and Richard are locks for the rotation with 2 spots open. Luebke, Leblanc, Harang, and Castro will all be battling for spots out of ST. BTW I know nobody that’s read this will agree with this but Castro > Kelly. If they get a deal with Kelly the padres will have three-four potential Aces with Latos, Stauffer, Richard, Castro, and Kelly. Sampson, Portillo, Lollis, Davis, and others are all also excellent pitching prospects in the lower minors.
IMO the pads have the deepest system in baseball just very few if any (probably just Castro going into 2011) top 50 propects.
I really doubt the Padres have the deepest system in baseball, but I do think it is underrated. Dude at fangraphs made a good point in saying:
“…the team currently has no talent that combines sure thing with star potential (the closest example, probably, is Jaff Decker). They just have a lot of players that have one in spades, and lack the other completely.”
I’m optimistic about the coming years for sure, but lets not get carried away.
Blanks is a good 1B prospect, but no sure thing. It wouldn’t hurt to get Rizzo in the deal to hedge our bets.
None of those 3B prospects is a better player than Headley. Both Darnell and Rincon are looking like future corner outfielders too.
Cumberland sticking at SS is a long shot. Scouts say he’s a future 2B and stats back that up showing that he’s a poor SS.
We don’t have Jerry Hairston, though I hope they re-sign him.
Harang is also a lock for the rotation, with Luebke/LeBlanc battling for the 5th spot.
Stauffer and Richard definitely aren’t potential aces. Sampson is though for sure, if that kid can stay healthy he could be a beast in 4 years.
Dont forget Hefner as a potential MLB mid rotation starter. I think you underestimate the Padre farm system. Name one of those Red Sox’s prospects that pencils out to be a top of the line MLB player? The Padre farm system is better then the Red Sox system; particularly, for pitching [both starting and bullpen]. The Padres weakest farm system areas are catching and middle infielders. Having Kelly is nice, but not the end of the world for the Padres. Having said that, if the Padres got both Kelly and Doubrant plus had the Red Sox trade for a catching and SS prospect then I would be ok with that trade. The Padres could always package some of this extra pitching for positions of need later.
I don’t believe the Red Sox will be giving up Lowrie. It’s a possibility that they trade Marco Scutaro and or Mike Cameron to another team to complete the deal. If the Sox involve Kalish or Reddick in the trade, I bet the Red Sox will place a claim on Adam Loewen to replace either outfielder. Rizzo or Anderson, Kalish or Reddick, Doubront or Bowden, and Jose Vinicio or Oscar Tejeda. Do they really need anybody else?
Id take Bowden, Doubrant, Rizzo, and Inglesis if I were the Padres.
Here’s what the Red Sox need or should do in the next couple of weeks: A) Trade for Gonzalez B) Sign either Crawford or Werth C) Trade Scutaro and or Cameron for pitching relief D) Sign Scott Downs and Matt Guerrier or Jesse Crain E) Sign Russell Martin
Problems solved.
Why can’t we just stop at letter D? I have no interest in Martin
1B. Gonzo
2B. Pedroia
SS. Lowrie/Scutaro
3B. Youk
LF. Crawford/Werth
CF. Ellsbury
RF. Drew
C. Salty/Varitek
DH. Papi
4OF: Kalish
Holy f**k LOL. Then Drew leaves next year and they pursue a replacement with the money they have coming off the books or let Kalish take over. Imagine an outfield of Crawford-Ellsbury-Kalish for years to come. WICKED speedy.
Kelly, Rizzo, Doubront, Reddick +…. GET IT DONE THEO.
LOL it’s fun seeing yankees fans panic already.
Ya right, they probably have Joey Votto on the roster by Sunday.
yup it’s not like they already have a first baseman or even a complete lineup already.
Haha…who’s panicking? I just can’t wait to see what the cost will be. I can’t imagine with Hoyer, Byrnes and McLeod they are going to allow themselves to get snookered.
prospects are not a sure thing. we all know what adrian gonzalez is, so i personally do not care who we have to give to get him.
Where do you see this at all.
Trade Papelbon
Sign Russel Martin C/1B/3B
Sign Jayson Werth/Carl Crawford LF
Get Adrian Gonzalez, Heath Bell for Jose Iglesias, Casey Kelly, Anthony Rizzo, Junichi Tazawa
Then sign Jose Reyes next offseason
after that, sign Albert Pujols to DH when you cut Ortiz, trade for Tim Lincecum for Micheal Bowden, Felix Doubront, dice-k, and a c- prospect. Afterwards, bring back Ted William’s body to be a power bat off the bench.
I can’t help but wonder if you are a Yankees fan in disguise. At least half of your posts are just bashing the Red Sox. You are a one-trick pony and I assure you many of us are tired of your act.
There are plenty of other NYY bashers to make for it.
nope, not a yankee fan in the slightest. These sort of trade proposals of hording every megastar really get under my skin. It just so happens that a majority seem to come from Red Sox fans. That isn’t being bullish, its damn near a fact. You know what many of us are tired of? having to see red sox fans endlessly say were gonna get every player on the face of the planet. not all red sox fans here are like that of course so i’m sorry for the sterotyping. Its not the way the organization itself i don’t like so don’t say i’m a hater, its the ignorant fans who i can’t stand.
I suppose it is only one step above actually hording every megastar like another team in the north east… But yes I agree, it aggravates me too (and makes me look bad as a Sox fan).
I like how the package for Lincecum only has 2 viable prospects.
thank god we don’t have to deal with this all off season. Glad to get it done early.
Boston better be screwing the Mads…do not want them getting set up for the next 5 years off of this trade.
Go Blue!
dislike
I am hoping Gonzalez gets traded to any team but Boston.
Kelly, Rizzo, Doubront, Kalish, Lowrie is my guess. As a Jays fan, I’m not happy about this.
Yes, let this happen. Then he sing Crawford or Werth.
I’ve been waiting to see a post heading like this since last offseason.
As Danny Pudi says on Community, I’m so happy that “I just peed a little”.
Assuming nothing crazy happens…my year is complete.
Sorry I meant We not he.
And probably sign instead of sing. 🙂 You do know you can edit these posts, right?
If I’m Hoyer I ask for Kelly, Doubront, Kalish, Lowrie. I think that is more than fair for the padres.
C- Hundley
1b- Blanks/Salazar
2b- Cabrera/Hoffpauir
ss- Lowrie
3b- Headley
Of- Kalish, Maybin, Cunningham, Ludwick, Venable, Denorfia
Sp- Latos, Richard, Stauffer, LeBlanc, Harang, Kelly, Doubront, Luebke
Rp- Bell, Adams, Gregerson,Thatcher, Russell, Poreda, Perdoma
Add a couple relievers and this team will be very competitive for several years.
I can’t imagine both Kelly and Kalish being in the deal.
Kalish is going to replace Drew.
Say the Sox have Werth/AGonz in 2012 instead of Kalish/AGonz, Sox are mow paying $15M more a year. Doesn’t seem worth it when Sox can get AGonz for nothing next offseason.
But you’re forgetting that the sox now move Youkliss to third and don’t have to pay beltre.
Pads have to ask for at least one elite sp prospect, one other good pitcher and at least one elite position prospect. Considering the padres needs, that would have to be Iglesias or Kalish. Kalish is much more polished in my opinion and ready to produce, but the pads need middle infield help. It’s a sticky situation becuase they need to make out big time in this trade. Iglesias, Kalish, Kelly, Doubront is just too much, but switching out Iglesias for Lowrie makes it more manageable. I still think Ellsbury would be a good fit in SD, but he does not provide the power potential that Kalish does. I guess we’ll see what happens! But this is for sure going down this time. I can just feel it.
As a Sox fan I’d do that trade.
This isn’t half bad:
LF Crawford
2B Pedroia
1B Gonzalez
3B Youkilis
DH Ortiz
RF Drew
CF Cameron
C Salty/Varitek
SS Scutaro
I love how A-Gon isn’t even a Red Sock yet but Crawford is apparently?
I think Crawford/Werth end up with Boston. Sox need an OFer this year, plus another when Drew goes next year. Cameron and Ortiz will also be gone. Sox have some holes to fill and money to spend.
I can see:
Ellsbury
Crawford
Pedroia
Gonzalez
Youk
Ortiz
Saltek
Drew
Scutaro
Saltek
1. I love this creation, Saltek, that you’ve created.
2. It’s in your lineup twice. Did it clone itself?
And I like that lineup a lot. I’m still a little worried that with getting Gonzalez and hopefully extending him, Boston might be less inclined to give Crawford a similarly huge deal and settle for Werth. As long as we have A-Gon, I can almost forgive that but still, I really hope they don’t and they just go all out for Crawford.
The Saltek is so great they made a tenth spot in the line-up specifically so it could bat twice.
answer to #2, you can never get enough saltek.
If the trade happens i doubt he would sign an extension right now. Why would he? if he had the teams have intrest in him above, why wouldn’t he get the most money he could by having them have a bidding war so he could get the most money?!?!?!
The Sox will give him market rate and a bonus to up his current year salary. I’m thinking:2011: $7M Bonus2012-2018: $19M per2019: $25M or $8M buyoutMakes the extension essentially 7/$148 or 8/$165
Agon will get at least $20 – $22mm per year.
If the trade really does happen i dont see him signing an extension. The man wants to be paid why not let the teams who had intrest in him through trades. Why not let them have a bidding war over him. Plus are the sox really going to give him a 8yr 180mil?
Just speculating, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see the trade being anchored on A-Gon agreeing to an extension. IMO it doesn’t make sense to trade him in the offseason unless he’s going to be there long-term…the Pads could wait and get more at the deadline.
I would think the Sox are going to offer a deadline-level of talent with the caveat he signs.
I don’t know if this makes sense. sleeeep
Looks like Pujols decision to stay in STL just got easier!
completely farfetched but
the idea of still going after beltre if they acquire gonzalez.
lest we forget that both him and youkilis have injuries and it is unknown if they will be at full health. a more reasonable assumption would be shifting lowrie over to 3rd if youk isnt ready and to 1st if adrian isnt
but im sure thats not going to happen
nor would the trade if gonzalez is damaged goods like the brandon lyons/mike gonzalez for scott sauerbeck trade back in 03?
If this happens then here’s my prediction. This is assuming they can work out an extension.
Casey Kelly, Reymond Fuentes, Oscar Tejada, Jed Lowrie and Doubront.
This way they get a potential high end starter in Kelly (even though I have my doubts), a possible mid rotation guy in Doubront, a starting SS in Lowrie, a possible long term answer at 2B/SS in Tejada and a younger and cheeper version of Ellsbury in Fuentes. That addresses most of what it seems the Pads needed.
Rizzo is interesting but his inability to make contact, draw a walk and high ko rate could be a problem if he ever makes it to Petco.
I think that’s a much more lenient deal in Bostons favor than most proposals thrown out by Red Sox fans here. I like it, but I don’t know if its enough. I mean they’re looking for minor league talent, but you would think they want players a little closer to the bigs than fuentes or tejada…kelly/lowrie I could definitely see in the deal.
i’m interested to see which prospects we trade, but I don’t think its going to take as much as some of us think. It may be something like Kelly/Rizzo/Lowrie/Pimental which I think is fair. Who knows if Gonzalez will still be available to sign next year. We can’t risk him being traded elsewhere.
Yeah I’m hopeful its lower too. I’m just keeping my guesses high, so I can be happily surprised rather than unpleasantly. 🙂
Possibly. Tejada was at A+ last year and did well .307/.344/.455 so I could see him finishing 2011 @ AA. Fuentes was 19 at low A sally and hit .270/.328/..377 w/ 42 of 47 SB. I could see him repeating low A at 2011 w/ a shot at finishing in A+. Between the two they could make it to the bigs by 2013. We’ll see. I just am not sure about Rizzo as a 2nd piece behind Kelly. I’m more impressed with what Fuentes has shown so far at his age.
I’ll buy that. It’s possible that 2013 is just too long for Pads to wait, and there are some other guys after Rizzo that they could be interested in; Kalish, Pimentel come to mind. But I see your point too. This’ll be interesting to see how it all shakes out.
They’re trading away Gonzalez and let 3 of their starters walk. 2 seasons to rebuild is a short span. Which is why I couldn’t understand why Sox fan’s felt Ellsbury would center a deal.
Hoyer better get Iglesias and Rizzo in this trade.
it seems like most sox fans are fine with including iglesias since we also have lowrie.
other way round
From reading comments of sox fans, they prefer lowrie because he has a better bat.
from reading and posting throughout a lot of this thread, I got the feeling that iglesias has a higher projection, that his bat is coming along, and that a lot of people see him as the shortstop of the future. Lowrie’s injury risks are still too high to believe he can fill that role quite yet.
true on the injury concerns, but we can give him a chance. On other sox boards, many are happy with him and believe he makes our lineup better next year if he stays healthy. i just get the feeling that Theo probably likes Lowrie more in reality and hyped up iglesias to use him in a trade. In my opinion, Lowrie has much more potential offensively.
On many other sox boards, commenters barely even follow the red sox farm system, and are in love with Lowrie for the story. Same reason people refused to let Lowell go for so long, and were unhappy Beltre came in. Sure bet they changed their minds during this season about that. The point is a lot of Red Sox fans are really sentimental, and can quickly overrate guys because of a great plotline. Nava got mentioned earlier on this thread even as a possible piece of the trade; besides the grand slam though, he’s at best a AAAA player with very low trade value. Just nice stories. Now while I think Lowrie’s a lot better than Nava of course, and the difference between him and Iglesias isn’t huge, Iglesias still has the capabilities to be a much better player. And the injuries really are a risk…If he was our best shortstop option I’d say take that chance, for sure, but with Iglesias I just don’t think he is.
I just think we should not let iglesias get in the way of acquiring a player like gonzalez. I will not be upset if including him helps us save ellsbury and bard. That’s just my opinion.
Agreed. I just think he’s the last prospect they go to, and only if its an end-all-negotiations-otherwise kind of requirement by the Padres. If he’s the only way to get it done, do it. But if we could do it another way, still only using prospects (and I definitely think it can be done), then we should.
who else would you be willing to give? Hoyer is supposedly obsessed with iglesias, so he probably backed off ellsbury/bard to get him.
But he is “meh” at best on defense, and hasn’t proved he can play for more than a week without getting hurt.
I like what I saw from him last season and he looks to be past the wrist issue. Also, Theo appears to be very high on him.
I like Lowrie, I just don’t think he is good enough to make people “fine” with trading Iglesias. Just my thoughts.
Iglesias could be a once a decade defensive ss.
yes he could. there’s a decent chance he’s not in the deal tho.
holy crap i can’t believe this actually might happen. I despise the red sox with all of my being and soul but i can’t help but feel happy for them becaause i hate the yankees slightly less
….confused…..
your confusing post is about a bajillion times more confusing since everyone is zoned out while trying to keep updated, heck im not even sure what im typing makes sense
not going to include lowrie. casey kelly and other minor league prospects….
i wouldn’t be suprised to see tazawa thrown in there
Tazawa’s coming off of Tommy John. No one’s going to trade for him until they see him in action.
Not having to include any major league players is a win in my perspective. Some were speculating it will take ellsbury or bard.
Personally I would rather include Ellsbury than Kalish (assuming he is part of what it would take) I know Ellsbury has become a fan favorite but Kalish seems to be a better all around ballplayer. He has the potential to hit 20-25 HR’s, steal 30-40 bases, hit for a respectable average, and get on base at a higher rate than Ellsbury. Not to mention that Ellsbury is older, under control for less time, and more expensive.
Well said. I agree with everything. Kalish is terrific.
I agree with you on some points and disagree on others. As far as service time goes, obviously Kalish is in the better situation. However, think about this from San Diego’s point of view. They don’t want Ellsbury, who is a Boras client and already hitting the more expensive levels of arbitration.
Also, I think those numbers you posted for Kalish are a little exaggerated honestly. He has average power, potential for 15 or so per year I’d say. He’s not fast. I don’t know if 30 bases is out of his range, but I think a more conservative estimate would have him at 15-20. As far as average/OBP, there’s nothing to indicate he’s better than Ellsbury in either category. He hovered around a .250 AVG and finished with a .305 OBP.
Kalish is a good player; a starting outfielder for many teams. The dilemma to the Red Sox organization is that he probably doesn’t hit enough to be a corner outfielder on this team, and he doesn’t defend enough to play center daily.
I’ve made that same argument from SD’s point of view, however in this situation I was simply talking about preferring him over Ellsbury.
You can’t really base his abilities on limited playing time in his first stint in the majors at 22 years old. But really I thought about not mentioning an exact number of what I thought he could do because I was afraid of exaggerating them, but apparently I’m not the only one; take it for what it is worth but Bill James projected him to hit 20HR’s and steal 43 bases next year but to be fair projects him to only hit .271 with only a .340 OBP. So I don’t think what I said his potential is was totally baseless.
i also like kalish more. we can replace ells with crawford.
No you can’t unless Crawford is getting a 3/12M contract.
Has Bard been ruled out? Seems like a piece SD would want to move Bell…just curious.
yes no bard. only def kelly and other prospects.
Missed the update because it wasn’t time stamped lol This is going to be interesting then.
From everything we are hearing it is only minor leaguers, as long as those reports are correct that would rule out Bard.
Call me crazy, but I wouldn’t buy my A-Gon Sox jersey just yet. Yes the Red Sox have more money and influence than anyone except maybe the Yankees, but don’t forget the earlier post about the other interested teams. The Cubs are probably still very much in on Gonzalez, and if they wanted, could probably make a competitive offer. They likely have a bit better farm system than the Sox, and also more Big League ready Talent. they also have some contracts that will be expiring and some extra pieces. A possible X-Factor here also could be the tragic news of Ron Santo’s passing. Although it may seem crazy, Santo was well loved in the organization by everyone from the players to the Beer Vendors. Any Cub fan will tell you that the only thing Ronnie would have wanted, was to see a WS Championship for the Cubs. It seems to me that because Ronnie never was granted this wish, the Cubs will be working to win it all, in a season certain to be dedicated to him. Just remember that Ronnie is gone, but now God will be hearing his “Oh-No’s” until the Cubs take the crown. R.I.P Ron Santo #10
I think the deal is done if AGonz is getting a physical.
lols, done deal derp
lols, done deal derp
I do not know why the padres are not getting ellsbury in this deal. I really think the red sox are the only ones who are gonna win in this trade because it just reminds me of the 2007 winter trade of the Marlins and Tigers with basically Miguel going to the tigers for basically a batch of players that amounted to nothing. I personally dont know to well of the Red Sox farm system but the padres better get a big minor league bat and some elite pitchers and hope for the best.
Too tired to type it all out….I’ll let someone else explain to you the pretty simple reasons why Ellsbury to the Padres doesn’t make sense.
Ellsbury isn’t the type of player a team like the Padres would be looking for. While he is a good player he is only under team control for 3 more years and is entering arbitration so he will be getting more expensive. They would likely be looking for guys like Kalish who are good players, and are major league ready, that will be under team control for several more years and are much cheaper than Ellsbury.
Ellsbury has more service time, less power, pads already have maybin in center, they need thump, Ellsbury is always hurt…………………………………need I say more?
Because Crawford is getting $20M on the open market and Ellsbury is the same player except he plays CF.
Uh . . . no.
Look at the third chart:
fangraphs.com/graphsw.aspx?playerid2=1201&pla…
Since when are Ellsbury and Crawford the same player?
So if Ellsbury isnt gonna be a part of this trade then I guess they are really gonna give Cameron Maybin a shot at center but I really have to say the Padres lineup will be filled with contact hitters who can defend and get on base but no one will drive them in now that Gonzalez is out of the lineup.
No offense to Dan Hayes, but why is some guy from a minor SD-area paper the only one reporting that this is so close?
only guy who’s awake maybe? That’s the reason no Boston writers are reporting, I’m sure.
Although you can also ask him on Twitter, he’s still up and about.
Just heard from this same source on twitter that its “very likely” it could happen before everyone heads off to the Winter Meetings. Just, FYI.
I tend to regard “source on twitter said” the same way I regard “some guy on the street said…”
Byebye Adrian… Dodger fans won’t miss you!
(In fairness, though, it is kind of sad. He’s a hometown guy and is absolutely adored in San Diego. Sucks for the fans to lose him just because they’re a small market team and won’t be able to afford him.)
good for the giants, and adrian beltre is just a little more likely to go to oakland now (but still might not)
Boston’s projected lineup with Adrian still, isn’t better than the Yankees’ so that pennant isn’t really getting any closer…
ok…whatever makes you sleep better
Ah good, I was looking for a nice dose of buzzkill.
lol? Having a better line up means nothing. You can’t factor in when a player will be injured or in a slump. Also, aren’t Jeter and Rivera getting old and fragile? 🙂
I’d say they’re almost equal at this point.
A-Rod and Papi are putting up very similar numbers. I’d still rather have A-Rod because he can still (kind of) play defense, but as bats, they’re almost identical.
Gonzalez and Texeira are about equal as well. We’ll see how A-Gon handles the AL East, but I’d reckon he’d do fine.
Cano and Youkilis are about even-steven as well.
I like Pedroia better than anything else the Yankees throw out there. If Crawford is in the lineup, then I like the Red Sox better than the Yankees almost all the way down. I’d take Ellsbury over Gardner and Crawford over Granderson. Swisher and Drew- eh, it’s a wash. Swisher’s a slightly better bat and is healthier. Drew’s far better defensively. Take your pick.
I’d probably take Posada over Scutaro and Lowrie combined. So I guess that leaves it almost a wash to a slight Red Sox win…
Not defending what Justin said, but would you really take Papelbon over Rivera? And I don’t mean in the long run, I mean for next season.
No but I would take Bard over Rivera.
New York’s projected rotation as of today doesn’t match up too well with Boston’s either.
Wrong. Boston finished 7 behind, solely because of the amount of injured players. Don’t forget they proved their depth, so watch what you say.
Wrong. Boston finished 7 behind, solely because of the amount of injured players. Don’t forget they proved their depth, so watch what you say.
It’s dumbfounding to me as to why Hoyer would even think of dealing Adrian before the trade deadline. He is only going to alienate fans (and there are already a lot of empty seats in SD) and lose a chance to win a wide open NL west . . .
Simple. They’ll get more for him now then they would at the deadline. Trading him at the deadline lessens the likelihood of a big haul. For one, the market is fairly limited for him (the Cubs and Red Sox are really IT) and unless a smaller market team with a need finds itself in contention, then the likelihood of a team sending over a boatload of prospects for a two month rental is a lot less likely. While the contending teams would love a shot at the postseason or a championship, the Padres also HAVE to move him. There’s no real leverage on their part. Right now, trading him is a luxury.
As for alienating Padre fans, I don’t see how. Hoyer put a team on the field that was, on paper at least, one of the absolute, bar-none worst teams in baseball and had them contending for the post season all the way up until the last day of the season. He approached Gonzalez about an extension, and Gonzalez – not Hoyer – shot it down. If he really wanted to alienate fans, he’d keep Gonzalez, let him leave without getting anything in return, be mostly out of contention this coming year, and have absolutely nothing to show for it when it’s all said and done. That would be alienating fans.
IMO, the deal is good for both sides.
You said it yourself, on paper, that doesn’t mean much. The Padres won games because of their pitching (both starting and relief) and defense. Adrian IS San Diego, born and raised. Losing him will alienate fans. The consensus of SD baseball fans aren’t concerned about a deal chock-full of minor league speculation . . .
Why delay the inevitable? If he’s traded at the deadline then obviously they are not making a playoff run. Might as well get the best package you can. I don’t think they see themselves as serious contenders in 2011 anyway.
Are lineup will be good enough if its healthy, they are probably signing Crawford or Werth too. We do have better starting pitching though.
If you guys can lock up Crawford, Werth and Gonzalez then it all changes. But until then “The Yankees are your daddy.”
Does your mom know you’re still awake?
stop trying to make us laugh.
You won 6 more games then the sox with good health. We limped in a season nearly as good as yours with an injury plague. If Beckett was healthy you might have been grabbing a wildcard. Your nobodys daddy anymore that was in 03.
Yankees limped in 2008, finished 6 games behind the Red Sox, and no one cried. Theres no excuses in the Bronx for injuries. G’luck with all your excuses though.
no one cried in 2008 except the yankee fans calling for girardi’s head.
Right, and a lot of Red Sox fans and beat writers called for Francona to win the manager of the year award. That shows you the differences in perspective between fans.
Actually, You all wanted Girardi fired and then bought AJ, CC and Tex in the off-season. If that’s not crying, then what is?
Leave it to a met fan to sound completely idiotic.
Actually, You all wanted Girardi fired and then bought AJ, CC and Tex in the off-season. If that’s not crying, then what is?
Beckett was healthy for most of the year especially down the stretch he just sucked and seriously needs to rebound.
Sox certainly don’t need all 3 of them. Also, the Yankees committed the biggest choke in sports history in 04′. They are a bunch of aging cheaters. In recent years you have cheaters in Arod, Peteitte, Giambi, Clemens and Derek Jeter seems to be taking acting lessons. Can’t forget how he pretended to get hit by a pitch in this year’s playoffs.
NY has 27 rings how many do you have? Easy with the cheating accusations, you had your fair share of them…
Are you accusing half of the 2004 Red Sox team of being cheater? That is so logical of you.
I meant ‘roid users, bozo, i mean bonzo…
hah no I’m agreeing with you.
This Justin Rodriguez needs to get off this forum.
This Justin Rodriguez needs to get off this forum.
Go off to some other post. No one cares what you say. Too busy focusing on the AGonz trade. You are pretty lame anyway, come up with some new material.
I really think the Red Sox could’ve done better for themselves by NOT picking up the option on ortiz, since ortiz is unable to hit lefties like he used to. With that they could have used that money to go after Beltre and Crawford and Trade for Agonz with a lineup like the following, it really would’ve put them over the top:
C:Sal/Tek
1b: Gonzalez/Youk
2b: Pedroia
3b: Youk/Beltre
SS: Scutaro
LF: Crawford
CF: Ellsbury(If he’s not packaged in the deal for Gonzalez)
RF: Nancy Drew
with a lineup like that, the Sox would definitely be right there if not ahead of the Yankees. IF their pitching staff gets it together they’d be in line for a deep postseason run. Now we must ask ourselves, is Theo willing to spend on some good talent.
Coming from your Yankees fan.
2b
as a Sox fan, i lmao’d at “Nancy Drew.”
So clever. He was awful last year, but worth the money in 08 and 09.
Might as well start calling Werth, Nancy Werth because they are the same player minus the beard.
He’s really not at all, games played would tell you as much, and even when they did both play Werth out performed him.
Ahead of the Yankees? Can’t tell if you’re serious.
C: Salt = Montero (Honestly things could go either way but Monty has more upside)
1b: Gonzalez < Texeira
2b: Pedroia < Cano
3b: Youk < Arod
SS Scutaro Gardner
CF: Ellsbury < Granderson
RF: Drew Posada (Advatage Ortiz for experience, even though it could go either way)
Sox have a sick lineup but it doesn’t touch NY. That said, Sox should be better defensively. They’re gonna need some luck to rebound off the injuries, but thats a massive improvement over 2009 if it happens.
Shall we compare the rotation?
Lester = Sabathia
Beckett > Hughes
Lackey > Burnett
Dice-K > Nova
Buchholz > Sorry only got 4 starters.
C: Salt < Montero
1b: Gonzalez = Texeira
2b: Pedroia = Cano
3b: Youk = Gardner
CF: Ellsbury = Granderson
RF: Drew =>= Swisher, Drew only stunk last year
DH: Ortiz > Posada
Pedroia = Cano? C’mon man! Your name screams unbiased . . . Youk = Arod? You should change your name to Homer. I’m not even a Yankees fan, but I can’t help but rip you.
Pedroia = Cano? C’mon man! Your name screams unbiased . . . Youk = Arod? You should change your name to Homer. I’m not even a Yankees fan, but I can’t help but rip you.
UH, A-Gon>Tex. Scutaro = Jeter. ELLSBURY>GRANDERSON.
ur a joke. Let me guess Ik davis > tex to?
UH, A-Gon>Tex. Scutaro = Jeter. ELLSBURY>GRANDERSON.
this is why ppl hate yankees fans and red sox fans. you guys have by far the highest payrolls and you still come up with these absurd pipe dreams cause your ridiculous payroll isn’t high enough.
The dreams really are crazy here. People are saying the Yankees need to sign Crawford, Lee, Werth. As a Yankee fan I’d like to say sorry, not all of us Yankees Red Sox fans are that arrogant.
The way I see it, The Yanks are going to have to go after Carl Crawford hard because of this AGonz deal. That leaves the Bombers with two potential trade chips in the outfield: Curtis Granderson and Brett Gardner. Obviously, they’ll be looking to add another arm; the only deal that seems to really make sense out there is a Curtis Granderson for Derek Lowe deal. Also, assuming that they ink Cliff Lee and Pettitte comes back for one more run…
C Montero/Romine/Posada
1b Teixeira
2b Cano
3b AROD
SS Jeter
LF Crawford
CF Gardner
RF Swisher
DH Posada
P – Sabathia Lee Lowe Pettitte Hughes
CL – Rivera
BP – Robertson Joba Logan Mitre Sanchez Brackman
Jeter
Crawford
Teixeira
AROD
Cano
Posada
Swisher
Montero/Romine
Gardner
I’m liking your idea up until where it says trade Grandy for Lowe. For one, Granderson is much more economical, has a new swing, and plays solid defense. Meanwhile, Lowe is still on the hook for another 15MM+ and he isn’t exactly in his prime anymore. Secondly, Gardner is a poor man’s Crawford, without the pop, and Gardy has a higher obp than Crawford, i’d take Gardy in left. The only thing I would assume the Yankees to do is simply go hard after Lee, and maybe go after Werth, but unfortunately it would spell the end of Swisher’s tenure in the Bronx. And I love swish. Thirdly, I believe Montero will be given a shot this year while Romine will play in Scranton. Although another catcher alongside Cervelli would really do the Yanks well.
Forgive me for getting tired of watching Granderson continually get dominated by left handed arms all last year; and when it comes down to it, Derek Lowe knows how to pitch, especially when it counts in the playoffs. It’s not like the Yanks can’t afford to add another 15 mill. Also, the trio of Lowe, Crawford and Gardner sounds a lot nicer than Granderson, Gardner, and Nova.
Grandy really improved in September and October, vs lefties and his overall swing. As for Lowe, i’m really against bringing him to NY, i’m sure there’s other talent out there that will come with a less marginal cost. I doubt that Nova will be apart of the rotation if Lee is signed: CC, Lee, Pettitte, Hughes, Burnout. Lowe has been doing himself well, in the National League, I don’t care what anyone says, the difference in the NL and AL is at least a .50 ERA, due to the DH amongst other things. I’d rather see that 15 million go towards something else.
There’s really no reason to keep Granderson around if you can go out and get one of the best in the game in Crawford. So you take on the Lowe’s 15 mill,so what? They can afford it. The transition between leagues is disheartening, but Lowe’s done it in the AL before and he’s always gotten it done in the playoffs. I think he’s a perfect fit as number 3 or 4 guy in the rotation.Sorry, if I don’t have much faith in AJ or Hughes for that matter. I love AJ , but it’s hard for me to really invest in that stock right now.
I’m liking your idea up until where it says trade Grandy for Lowe. For one, Granderson is much more economical, has a new swing, and plays solid defense. Meanwhile, Lowe is still on the hook for another 15MM+ and he isn’t exactly in his prime anymore. Secondly, Gardner is a poor man’s Crawford, without the pop, and Gardy has a higher obp than Crawford, i’d take Gardy in left. The only thing I would assume the Yankees to do is simply go hard after Lee, and maybe go after Werth, but unfortunately it would spell the end of Swisher’s tenure in the Bronx. And I love swish. Thirdly, I believe Montero will be given a shot this year while Romine will play in Scranton. Although another catcher alongside Cervelli would really do the Yanks well.
Dude…there is no reason for the Yanks to sign Crawford just because the Sox might acquire Agonz. The Yanks still have a great offense and pitching is much more of a concern. I would say there’s a great gap between their staff vs ours than there is between our offense and theirs.
It’s the gap in the staff that poses the problem, by signing Crawford the Yanks are gaining a trade piece, Granderson or Gardner, which they can use to add another arm.
Whats wrong with?
1. CC
2. Lee
3. Pettitte
4. Hughes
5. AJ
Yankees aren’t gonna give up their cheap outfield which posted one of the highest WARs in MLB for another starting pitcher.
What’s wrong with it? It’s not as good as it could be. The Yanks don’t need to worry about getting bargains on high “WAR” outfielders. They can afford to sign Crawford, they can afford to bolster the staff; the same staff that got smacked around by Nellie Cruz and Hamilton in the ALCS, the same bargain outfield that got dominated by Lee, Wilson, and Lewis in every game. And now, the Red Sox are going out and getting one of the best bats in the game and you just wanna sit idly and hope for the best?
The playoffs aren’t a test of who’s best, its wh’os hottest. Rangers posted a .400+ BABIP in the ALCS. Any team that BABIPs that high is gonna win, and the Rangers were the better team. You want to sign old expensive players over young cheap players to basically have the names on the team. Granderson, Gardner, Swisher offers more likely of a higher WAR than the Red Sox could produce in 2011 even if they signed one of Werth or Crawford. The Yankees outfield will also cost them $30m less. That $30m goes to getting Arod, Teix, CC, Lee.
I don’t have to explain that the Yankees can’t just go out and buy every player because they have the money, thats just stupid. And they’re hardly sitting idle. Theyre bringing up the best hitting prospect in baseball and signing the best free agent on the market next week.
BABIP? Statistics carry weight, but games are won on more than just stats and who’s hot. The Yanks got outplayed by a team that we all know was better than they were, on both sides of the ball.
Do you know what babip is? It shows how many balls in play are hits. Its hardly a stat like WAR or UZR. The average is around .300 which is around what the Yankees posted in the ALCS. The Rangers were .400. Yankees got outplayed because of babip buddy.
Hey Yankees fan, this is a Sox party and you’re not invited!!!
As long as the Yanks sign Lee, bring Pettitte back and add a bullpen arm then I’m fine. We don’t need to add another $100 mil contract to keep up with the “Jones”. Swisher/Grandy/Gardner was a good OF last year and if Grandy can return to vintage 2007 then it can be great for a total of about $15 mil next year. Don’t need to sign a major all-star at a position that’s already held by a good player.
The only way I see the Yanks signing Crawford is if they don’t sign Lee.
If NY doesnt sign Lee they are in trouble. Yeah their offense is good. Even if you assume the playoffs their offense was only good enough to beat a team with average pitching. Texas’ staff held the offense down and the Yanks staff imploded. You cant rely on one horse getting you through a 7 game series.
Great pitching beats great hitting. Just look at what SF did this year. You can win the WS with an average offense and excellent pitching. But if that gets reversed then you find yourself at home on the couch watching another team celebrate on the pitchers mound.
Great pitching beats great hitting except, y’know, when great hitting beats great pitching. Like when the Yanks beat the Phils the year before.
In the playoffs anybody can beat anybody, the hottest team wins. People need to stop rationalizing potential roster moves on playoff performance.
And how exactly do you figure that the Phillies had great pitching in 2009? Without adding Lee they probably wouldnt have made it into the WS. Cole Hamels had a down year and was nothing like he was this year or in 08. I mean seriously, they had to start Pedro Martinez twice in the WS. and Brad Lidge had an ERA above 7. Hardly a dominant pitching staff.
And PHI won both games where their great pitcher was on the mound. Both times Lee started they won. They lost the other 4 games with the other guys.
NY didnt beat great pitching. They lost to it twice and then they beat up of the lesser talented guys.
The redsox dont have great pitching though.
I would take the RedSox current staff over the current staff of NY any day. Ill even give you Pettite and id still take the sox starters
This comment can be summarized in the Granderson for Lowe suggestion… what are you on?
Yankees still have a better lineup than the Red Sox, even if Boston can get Crawford or Werth. Yankees are stacked. Red Sox gotta hope for a second year of the pitcher to beat the Yankees in 2011.
MrCano24 please go polish your gold glove and leave the GM duties to Cashman.
Why would I trade a young inexpensive, talented CF for an expensive, well past his prime, #5 starter?
so you think you guys can’t beat us unless you get both lee and crawford? LOL. I don’t know why yankees fans bother pretending they are not shaking in fear when it is apparent they are.
I wouldn’t call it shaking in fear…I call it playing the game..
we’re not getting back beltre or martinez. now because we may get adrian, I start to hear yankees fans crying about how they desperately need lee along with crawford. Sounds like panic to me…just admit you guys are afraid of us.
Shake in fear over what? Agonz is a great player and good for you if you get him. However….
You lose Beltre, Vmart and Hall and replaced them with Agonz and Salty. BVH accounted for 56 hrs and 225 RBI. Agonz should be good for 35 and 120 and a healthy Pedroia and Youks will help make up the difference. The net differential there is still marginal. Now if you add Crawford or Werth then maybe you take a big step ahead from where the offense was last year.
Yanks MIGHT be an improved offense next year as well w/o signing anyone new. Tex had an injury filled year. Jeter and Arod had the worst years of their careers and could bounce back. Posada will DH the majority of the time and an offensive jump is within reasonable expectations and if Montero gives us anything decent (.275/.350 15-20 hrs) then that’s good as well. Even with all the lows from Tex, Jeter, Arod, Posada and Granderson the Yanks still ranked 1st in Runs (+41 over the #2 Red Sox) and 3rd in hrs behind the Jays and Red Sox (10 fewer than Boston) among all MLB teams.
Think about what you just wrote. Look at the Red Sox, even assuming A-Gon recovers fully. Big question at catcher, Varitek no longer can do it; Salty has issues that the Braves and Rangers found him lacking; injury comebacks at several positions; aging outfielders other than Ellsbury, and Jacoby’s injury was pretty serious since speed is his game. Pedroia should be careful; once you injure your foot, it is never the same (ask Bill Walton); VMart – gone. Hall – gone. Beltre won’t be affordable so he’s gone. Big questions remain on the pitching staff, especially the bullpen.
But, hey, at least Theo got something done.
And, thanks so much for Ramon Ramirez. He pitched very well for the Giants, well enough to get tendered.
To bad for us PADRES fans A-GONE is on of the best players in the MLB, to bad we can’t secure him we are going to miss the Tijuana slugger the RED SOX are lucky to have him he is going to help the win 1 or 2 Rings he plays his heart out . CHICLE JR,, deserves all the money in the world !!
The padres got the least production out of the 1-2 hitters in baseball. People point to contracts as a valid reason why the padres wouldn’t want Ellsbury; but more than anything they need a leadoff hitter. There is a good chance the team thinks Maybin is that guy but maybe not.
Also the front office is super high on Venable. Hoyer said he thinks he’ll win a gold glove. They also have Maybin and Ludwick for 1 more year. I could see them going with a younger OF like Fuentes with more potential. He’d also have less value to the Sox than Ellsbury or Kallish so they could get more like Rizzo, Kelly, Iglesias.
Ellsbury and Crawford have similar numbers.
Crawford will get $20M/season on the open market.
Sox aren’t trading him.
Lmao, Ellsbury is trash. You’re out of your mind.
Wow…so 70 steals in 2009 is trash?
Really? Ellsbury is trash? Lets take a look at Ellsbury’s 2009 season and compare it to Crawfords 2010 season, since thats the last time they were both healthy.
Ellsbury – .301/.355/.415 94 R, 8 HR, 60 RBI’s, 70 SB.
Crawford – .307/.356/.495 110 R, 19 HR, 90 RBI’s, 47 SB.
So, 6 points higher in BA, 1 point higher in OBP. Crawford’s obviously got more pop than Ellsbury, but Ellsbury has more speed.
If you say Ellsbury is trash, then Crawford is only marginally above “trash”
Ellsbury’s not trash, but he’s no Crawford. Look, you just took Ellsbury’s career highs (which he didn’t come close to repeating this year) and he’s still 81 points of OPS below Crawford. And no, he doesn’t have more speed, he’s not significantly younger, and he doesn’t play better defense.
Crawford has much better splits for many years in a much worse hitter’s park. I wonder what Crawford’s line Fenway would be? Oh yeah, and Ellsbury stole 70 bases once. Once. Crawford’s stolen 40 7 times while Ellsbury’s managed it twice. And Crawford stole 40 this past year while hitting third.
I hate Red Sox and Yankees fans.
I’m not saying Ells is Crawford jr, I’m just curious how Ells was supposed to repeat those numbers in 18 games?
He isn’t, because he only played 18 games. Good point, kinda, if rate stats were all that mattered. Ellsbury missed more games this past season than Crawford has missed since he came into the league. That’s certainly factors into why Crawford is significantly more valuable.
Really? Ellsbury is trash? Lets take a look at Ellsbury’s 2009 season and compare it to Crawfords 2010 season, since thats the last time they were both healthy.
Ellsbury – .301/.355/.415 94 R, 8 HR, 60 RBI’s, 70 SB.
Crawford – .307/.356/.495 110 R, 19 HR, 90 RBI’s, 47 SB.
So, 6 points higher in BA, 1 point higher in OBP. Crawford’s obviously got more pop than Ellsbury, but Ellsbury has more speed.
If you say Ellsbury is trash, then Crawford is only marginally above “trash”
This is the second time you’ve posted this and it’s just not true. They’re two years apart in age. Crawford’s put up 5 seasons of 4+ WAR and 2 seasons of 5+ WAR. Ellsbury has NEVER put up a 4+ WAR season. Ellsbury’s only been an above average player 2 years and one of those years wasn’t last year. You really need to give up this argument that Ellsbury is as good as Crawford.
Japanese team swooped in…Adrian is the new Mr. Baseball
I hope this trade happens because the pathetic yankees need someone to take them down again
According to Buster Olney, the Red Sox are pretty much already in contract talks with Adrian Gonzalez.
Yeah I saw that too. He says the players are agreed on and Boston is talking contract with him.
Apparently this is really happening…
twitter.com/Buster_ESPN
2 hours ago: The San Diego Padres and Boston Red Sox are on the verge of finishing an Adrian Gonzalez deal. Players all agreed to.
2 hours ago: The Red Sox are far enough along in the conversation that they are trying to work out a new contract with Adrian Gonzalez.
1 hour ago: Rival executives say SS Jose Iglesias would be a natural fit for any Red Sox/Gonzalez trade, to SD; we’ll see if he’s in the deal.
HOLY SMOKES!!!
This is for real?!? PINCH ME!!!
Wow, Casey Kelly plays SS and Pitches???
he did when he was drafted. He wanted to play SS, the Sox saw him as a SP and let him play both when he was drafted. He eventually settled in as a SP
From what I recall he was actually an above average defensive SS but couldn’t hit. The Sox seemed sure he would end up pitching regardless of what he did at short because his “stuff” was so good but agreed to let him try short before settling on a position.
I don’t know why my post is not showing… but this is from Olney’s twitter:
2 hours ago: The San Diego Padres and Boston Red Sox are on the verge of finishing an Adrian Gonzalez deal. Players all agreed to.
2 hours ago: The Red Sox are far enough along in the conversation that they are trying to work out a new contract with Adrian Gonzalez.
1 hour ago: Rival executives say SS Jose Iglesias would be a natural fit for any Red Sox/Gonzalez trade, to SD; we’ll see if he’s in the deal.
WOW!!! Now Cafardo is saying it’s pending physical?!?
Holy smokes!!! Am I dreaming?
It’s tough to give up your top prospects. But that is what they are, prospects. There is no guarantee that they will even become average major leaguers. Getting Gonzalez signed now would be HUGE. Knowing you have a .300 35 100 gold glover for 6+ years will allow you to feel comfortable giving up the top prospects.
If Kelly and Rizzo are the only two top prospects going to San Diego and Sox extend Gonzalez, than this is an awesome trade!
Kelly has ace potential but he is still a year or two away from the majors and a lot can happen in that time. I like Rizzo but he isn’t needed if Gonzalez is here.
Kelly is at the very least 2 years away. He’s 20. He is probably more the like 3-4 years away. There is no need to rush him. The Padres will approach him the same way they did Buchholz.
I’m guessing the deal will be Kelly+Rizzo+ Doubront or Reddick+ SS prospect. I’m hoping it’s not Iglesias.
I’ve seen Kelly and while he may have potential his stuff is mediocre but he has great command and control. IMO he’ll end up a good #3 starter/decent #2 but I just don’t see the Ace potential that everyone else does.
Kelly could be a future ace but at just 20 he still has a lot of seasoning to do in the minors and with the staff that SD has he wont be rushed. Rizzo is a nice piece to replace Gonzalez at 1B. It will be interesting to see who the other names are that are in the deal. Doubront, Iglesias, Kalish, and Reddick are all names that have floated out there. So it will be interesting to see what happens later today.
Odds are that the physical is just to check in and see what the docs did to his shoulder and to see how far the progression is and a time table. Cause everything else should be fine.
On a side note one of the prospects that was rumored last year Ryan Westmoreland, was actually taking BP in Ft Myers a few weeks ago. No one is sure if or when he will be able to play again but just a great story. Definately rooting for this kid regardless of if he plays another meaningful game or not.
I read that he has physically made a full recovery to live a normal healthy life…now it’s about retooling his baseball shed.
He wasn’t even sure if he would make it through surgery, didn’t know if the surgery would leave him paralyzed or damage his other motor skills. He took the risk because he was having bleeding in the brain that was leading to seizures and complete blindness depending on where the drops of blood were ending up.
Great news to know he can live a normal life even if it doesn’t involve baseball.
Exactly Rizzo is blocked coming to majors, we also have Lars.
Kelly may have ace potential, but he is unproven as a starter. His first full season as a starter didn’t go well. I still think he has ace potential but it will take longer to develop than a guy like Buchholz who was focused on pitching before he got drafted and in the minors where he also was a little bit older than Kelly is at this point. You have to give up something to get something
AGonz will get a monster deal from the Sox, but I think it will be mYbe $1-2M less than if he hit the open market. I think he will get a $7M signing bonus, 7/$133M extension, option for at 2/45M or $8M buy out.
Essentially makes extension 7/148 to age 36 or 9/185 to age 38.
It’s only 5am in California…if Theo woke Adrian up to talk contract at this hour AGonz is not going to be too happy with us….well he will be getting $120M+, wouldn’t mind that wake up call!
Sox will target Werth next. While I value Crawford 10x more than Werth, the lineup could get too lefty heavy in a division with a lot of really good left handed pitchers (and probably Cliff Lee on the way). Ellsbury, Papi, Drew, Gonzalez…I have no doubt that they will look at the extra money Crawford will cost and the fact that he is left handed, and decide that Werth is a better fit.
I am making an assumption that they will add an outfielder. I can’t see them going into the season relying on Cameron or Kalish on a daily basis. They may go smaller cost with a Magglio Ordonez (another right-handed bat) as well, which may not be terrible – may even be smarter than committing 5 years to Werth.
And they have the money going forward for Werth and a Gonzalez contract too. With Drew, Ortiz, Scutaro, Papelbon coming off the books after this year and dice-k the year after
Dont forget about that awful Cameron contract!
He’s signed for ONE MORE YEAR! I don’t care how much monetary value a contract is for (At least until it approaches $16 million or so), a one year contract is not a “bad” contract.
While I wouldn’t be unhappy if we signed Werth, I don’t think he is worth the contract Dunn got, and he will get more years and dollars.
If A-Gonz is coming to Boston for his medical eval, I just hope he is not seeing the same Doctors as Ellsbury had to endure last year.
Would Mets trade Jason Bay and two prospects to Boston for Papelbon.
Prospects would have to be equivalent to a 2nd rounder and a 1st supplemental.
Papelbon, too, is not all that great. Please stop posting.
Papelbon, too, is not all that great. Please stop posting.
Umm there are 2 picks attached to him, therefore two prospects would be returned, and the Mets would move the Bay contract which washes out the fact that Papelbon is overpaid.
So the Mets can keep Bay, instead of sending that money Cliff Lees way.
The primary beneficiary of this trade is Cliff Lee, because the Yankees are going to react by locking him up for the next decade at $27M per season.
I predict 6 years/$100MM extension, if it gets worked out. I don’t think the Sox will pay him $20MM per year straight up. They don’t do that sort of thing. The first couple of years will be cheap because he gets paid so little right now that he’ll still double his income while giving them a steep discount.
Not only would they do that sort of thing, they were prepared to do it for Teixeira. Any extension will almost certainly equal or exceed $20M per year.
Agreed with Dunkin Donuts, Teixara was almost the exact same age (28 days younger, actually) when the Sox were willing to offer him 8/160. Aside from Teix’s ability to switch hit, the two are very similar players (age, great power threats with high OBP, above average to great glovework in any given year.)
Now, Gonzalez is already locked up for one year so he’ll be 29 by the time he needs a new contract. I could see them essentially voiding that contract by giving him a 7 year/154.5m deal to make him 20m over the next 8 years if that’s what it takes, but he’ll likely get at least 7/140.
I laughed when someone said Teixeira was better than Gonzalez. Gonzalez has a higher WAR the last two years, plus he’s two years younger. Plus he plays in a pitchers park while Teixeira plays in a bandbox. I know WAR is park adjusted, but I think that only does a half-assed job of accounting for the differences.
This sounds like a great deal for Boston. I am not a RS fan so I don’t know anything about Kelly. I looked at his stats and they don’t look great. Why is he a top prospect???
I predict Gonzalez will put up big numbers in the AL East where the parks are generally more hitter-friendly.
Kelly is a top prospect based on his tools and projections. Some scouts have suggested he might add a MPH or two to his fastball as he fills out his frame. He was young for his age in AA this year, and many young pitchers struggle at that level. That’s why he is still coveted despite the underwhelming stat line.
OK, thanks. That makes sense. But for the sake of Padres fans, I hope those projections are right.
You forgot that the AL East is alot tougher than the NL West, better pitching, better players, and much more or a grind.
n
Oh yeah? Tell that to SF who beat TX who beat the Yankees.
SF has the best overall pitching in baseball, IMO.
I also think a move to the much more friendly AL East hitter parks will more than compensate for any supposed pitching advantage in that division.
But only time will tell. If he’s healthy, I think Gonzalez will put up better numbers over the next 3-4 years than he did in SD in any comparable time period. MUCH better.
WHAT A WAY TO START THE DAY!
even if kelly pans out and becomes an ace the sox can work out a trade with the padres in 5 years……sox win! sox win!
So guys, who is the AL East’s best first baseman: Teixeira or Gonzalez?
Adam Lind! lol
I’ll go with Gonzalez
Wash.
Gonzalez. If this trade goes through, I think he’ll have a much higher WAR the next 3-4 years than Teixeira.
Gonzalez and it’s not even remotely close. Gonzalez puts up roughly equivelant to better numbers than Teixeira in a pitchers’ park. Take Teixeira out of NYS the last two years and he’s merely above average. Teixeira’s a guy whose career is predicated on having played the majority of his time in hitters’ parks. On his career, he’s got a .974 OPS at home to an .852 OPS away. It’s even more pronounced since coming to the Yankees, in 2009, he OPS’ed 1.013 at Yankee Stadium and .882 on the road. In 2010 it was even more pronounced: he had an awful home/away split, .968 OPS at home to .728 at away, almost a .250 point difference.
As it stands, one could put up a pretty solid debate as to whether Youkilis or Teixeira is the best first baseman in the AL East. If Gonzalez comes here? Like I said, it’s not even close.
Nick Johnson
Typo Ben, I’m sure you meant “Flew” and not “Few”
i wonder if the contract extension will include an injury clause pertaining to agon’s surgically repaired shoulder.
The trade is pending a physical.
I’m going to go with yes.
YES! YES! Thank you Theo. Best Christmas gift! And early too!
For those of you who are lazy I got a gift for you too. AGon’s hit charts:
mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_hitting_chart.…
Look particularly at all the flyouts in Petco particularly to LF, then look at Fenway’s dimensions.
Superstar baby!
He’ll be
glad I have something good to read on a 12 hour shift. Good for Boston, Glad Adrian will play for a consisent team that wants to win. This should be interesting.
For all the people who couldn’t stand us Sox fans for dreaming big, HA.
Giants fans LOVE this trade. The Padres gave the Giants a real battle, they earned our respect, unlike the Dodgers who quit in the second half. Now they’ve lost their best hitter, Garland, Tejada, Torrealba; it’s rebuild time again for the Padres.
YES WE DO! Padres are rebuilding and the Dodgers are still dealing with the McCourt divorce, it seems like the Rockies are the only road block back to the postseason for the Giants.
YES WE DO! Padres are rebuilding and the Dodgers are still dealing with the McCourt divorce, it seems like the Rockies are the only road block back to the postseason for the Giants.
Wow.. Welcome to the rivalry AGon.. And than y’all might sign werth.. Not bad sox, not bad at all!
The Padres sure as heck better no what they are doing. I better see Kalish or Iglesias included in this deal along with Kelley and Rizzo.
Maybe the Padres already know that AGon is damaged goods. One can only hope they are being smart about this.
If he still had 2-3 years left on his deal, I could see that thinking. But, Hoyer knows he’s not going to be able to sign him, especially to a ten figure deal which he’s looking for. So, other teams had him over a barrel, and if he extracts 3-4 top prospects, it’s a great deal. If they’re two good prospects, and two marginal ones, that’s to be expected.
Too bad, I kind of enjoyed the rivalry but the Pads were in the process of rebuilding when they surprised everyone, so consider 2010 a bonus. The rebuilding continues…you SD fans need to fill the seats or the team will never be able to keep the stars. Watch, Latos, if he becomes a star, will go the same route as all the others.
I agree, the Pads need to get Kalish, Inlesias, Bard, and Kelly for this to be a good deal for them. This is a big move for the Sox. It’s about time this deal got done, I was getting sick of reading about it. Know If we get the Jeter and Lee done that will get the ball rolling.
Awful move for the Sox if they trade all four of the players you mentioned. Two max excluding Bard, plus lesser prospects.
If AGonz was signed to a Upton like deal, might make sense but be is coming off shoulder surgery and has no chance to return to SD at the end of the season.
Doubt they get Kalish and Iglesias on top of Kelly and Rizzo.
If he is damaged goods there would be no trade.
The Red Sox doctors are not geniuses. It wouldn’t surprise me if they say AGon is ok when he still injured. They couldn’t get Ellsbury right all year.
i think you ment to say “doctors in general are not geniuses” and that “there’s a reason malpractice insurance exists”
No, he is right, only red sox doctors, Ellsbury wanted out of Boston because they kept misdiagnosing him, they have a medical staff headlined by Dr. Nick.
Have to agree with you too. Boston’s medical staff isn’t the best around so this should be interesting. It would be terrible for the Sox if their shinny new toy in not in the line up opening day because he needs and additional 60 days to heal.
They know he’s one year from FA, and the Sox are the best suiors for AGON because of Money & prospects. If we fill our needs with the open market only, there may be no room for AGON come July. The Padres are being extremely smart here.
That doesn’t mean you give him away. The idea is to maximize your return. If they don’t get either Kalish or Iglesias to go with Kelley and Rizzo then they didn’t make a good deal. It would make more sense to hang onto Gonzalez and try to trade him later.
Teams don’t just have to give all their players to the Red Sox and Yankees.
Jacoby Ellsbury is going to look great in a Padres uniform. Oh, wait a minute…
Here we go again with the AL East one-up – the rich getting richer..Now you know the Yankees are really going to push hard after Lee to get guys like Gonzalez out …next year it will be a 2 team race – NY & Boston ( surprising )
Tampa Bay cant retain all their talent
Toronto will be competitive as always
Baltimore – might as well change leagues at this point
What I dont get is the Padres who almost won the NL West last year are going to be nowhere near as good
Not that Im a fan of either team ..just an observation
This is a good trade for Boston now, and San Diego in the future I would venture to say…
My guess is the NL West will be SF & LA – but the Rockies will be there until the end as well…
It sucks but MLB refuses to do anything about it. The Padres clearly can’t afford to keep players which means they constantly have to trade them out. How is that healthy for the sport? Having teams act as nothing but farm systems for two or three other teams. It is ridiculous but that is how Selig and the other owners like it.
Padres were in better shape to make the playoffs last year than the Sox were.
Sox have to sell out every game, rip off fans with stupid promotions that cost a fortune and give up their top prospects just to compete with the Yankees.
San Diego just needs to throw a team on the field, doesn’t need people showing up to the park, and they still only miss the playoffs by a game.
The only problem isn’t the amount of money being spent.
i just heard on WEEI that san diego is the second most profitable team in baseball due to revenue sharing
Padres were in better shape to make the playoffs last year than the Sox were.
Sox have to sell out every game, rip off fans with stupid promotions that cost a fortune and give up their top prospects just to compete with the Yankees.
San Diego just needs to throw a team on the field, doesn’t need people showing up to the park, and they still only miss the playoffs by a game.
The only problem isn’t the amount of money being spent.
Well, Marlins got into two WS’s this past decade without any money all by trading off their players.
Either way, if you put a salary cap, the same thing will happen. It will just change from when lower market teams winning, higher markets will trade off their guys too. Padres problem is that their farm isn’t impressive and their team isn’t either.
If they get someone to work on the team from the ground up, increase the number of fans that come in, they can be a force after a while.
Get those prospects to become high level players and trade them off for big prospects then trade them off for big prospects and your team will have a lot of great players in 10 years. Or every 3 years in the Marlins case.
Well, Marlins got into two WS’s this past decade without any money all by trading off their players.
Either way, if you put a salary cap, the same thing will happen. It will just change from when lower market teams winning, higher markets will trade off their guys too. Padres problem is that their farm isn’t impressive and their team isn’t either.
If they get someone to work on the team from the ground up, increase the number of fans that come in, they can be a force after a while.
Get those prospects to become high level players and trade them off for big prospects then trade them off for big prospects and your team will have a lot of great players in 10 years. Or every 3 years in the Marlins case.
San Diego surprised everyone, it was an unexpected bonus. They were in the process of rebuilding when it happened. A-Gon was in his walk year and they were not going to be able to afford him, so getting prospects was Hoyer’s best alternative. Big league players like Ellsbury would not have liked playing for a losing team, which the Pads will become. They’ve already lost Garland, Torrealba and Tejada. Don’t be surprised to see Heath Bell traded while his value is very high.
As a Yankees fan…. Crap.
As a Giants and BoSox fan… YES and YES!
“As a Giants and BoSox fan”…..that says it ALL.
As a Giants and BoSox fan… YES and YES!
As a Yankee fan I think this is an awesome move for the Sox, and hate it lol. A Gone will be awesome for them, and not having to give up Bard makes it a good trade for them as well.
If Bard was involved I don’t think there would have been a trade, he is the only reliable bullpen arm on the Sox.
No there would have, just with Heath Bell included.
No there would have, just with Heath Bell included.
You know what this means? A’s get number 29! Hallelujah
You know what this means? A’s get number 29! Hallelujah
Boston will be a fun team to watch next year with the addition of Adrian wow, and I generally hate NYY and BOSOX (not true hate, rivalry hate^^). I’m real excited for next year’s MLB season. Will be definitely fun to face the Yanks and Sox, TB and Orioles. I love that my team is in the toughest division in baseball!!!
What kind of fan of another team would be happy about seeing the Red Sox add Gonzalez. This is just more of the same.
Us AL East peeps have a sick desire to have every team in our division get better, if only to validate that the team(s) that flourish are legit as all hell. at least that’s my take on what friedcalamari is talking about. I personally am a redsox fan but as sick as this sounds liked seeing the O’s and Blue Jays make steps in the right direction last year (in the case of the Jays I should have said big leaps, at least as far as their pitching is concerned; they really could be a powerhouse in a few years)
whoop whoop. rickJ nailed it. On the one hand, it is frustrating knowing that a number of times over the last decade the Jays probably had a good enough team to make the playoffs if they had been in another division. However, on the other hand, you know your team is for real when it is hanging with the big guns. Plus, it is fun watching the jays go into Yankee stadium and beat the home team. It is certainly more entertaining then watching a game played at Kaufmann.
Us AL East peeps have a sick desire to have every team in our division get better, if only to validate that the team(s) that flourish are legit as all hell. at least that’s my take on what friedcalamari is talking about. I personally am a redsox fan but as sick as this sounds liked seeing the O’s and Blue Jays make steps in the right direction last year (in the case of the Jays I should have said big leaps, at least as far as their pitching is concerned; they really could be a powerhouse in a few years)
I like the deal if it includes both Kelly and Rizzo plus Kalish as the MLB ready piece and maybe some lesser know guy that Hoyer likes. Thats a very fine return for one year of any player.
I think also if the Pads are trading Gonzalez they should go ahead and deal Bell and Ludwick at the meetings. Without Gonzalez they don’t have much of a shot at the playoffs this year and should go full steam with the rebuild so they can get back to winning quickly. Sign a couple of veterans like Eckstein and Henry Blanco for on the field leadership and let the youth movement begin.
Start out with something like this and move prospects up as they are ready:
Maybin CF
Eckstein 2B
Venable RF
Kalish LF
Headley 3B
Blanks 1B
Hundley/Blanco C
Cabrera SS
Latos
Richard
Stauffer
Harang
LeBlanc/FA
CL Gregerson
SU Adams
That team can pitch and play great defense but there could be some serious growing pains in a young lineup – but it does have legit offensive potential.
The MLB ready player will almost definitely be Jed Lowrie. I’m basing that on San Diego’s lack of middle infield depth vs their outfield depth. The Padres have Eckstein and Cabrera at 2B and SS respectively. Last year, Cabrera hit .208/.279/.278. I’m sure they’re dying to get a SS in there that can swing the stick.
Could be Kalish, who knows. That’s just my take on it, but I don’t know the Padres farm very well, so they could have a big name SS waiting in the wings.
Cabrera did hit .255/.342/.361/.702 with 25 SB in 2009 and is only going to be 24 next year so I think it would be a good idea to go ahead and see what he has in a rebuilding year. Lowrie does also make sense but they may play him at 2B and then Cabrera at SS and not sign Eckstein. Your guess is as good as mine.
As a Braves fan I’d gladly take Cabrera off their hands! How bout Cabrera, Durango and Poreda for Alex Gonzalez?
That would give the Braves a speedy SS, a back up CF and another LH for the pen.
Cabrera did hit .255/.342/.361/.702 with 25 SB in 2009 and is only going to be 24 next year so I think it would be a good idea to go ahead and see what he has in a rebuilding year. Lowrie does also make sense but they may play him at 2B and then Cabrera at SS and not sign Eckstein. Your guess is as good as mine.
I predict it will be Kalish. That makes it a better deal for the Padres. Padre fans should be PO’d if they don’t see Kalish or Iglesias included in the deal.
You’re suggesting they get rid of their only remaining legitimate hitter in Ludwick?
I said they should go ahead and trade him too, what’s the point of keeping him around. He is a good hitter but isn’t an impact bat that will carry a lineup like Gonzalez and lead them to 90 wins.
Also trading his salary allows the Padres to spend more on their five picks before the second round next year. Trading Ludwick also clears up space for a really good young player Venable to play his natural rightfield and Kalish, Denorfia, Cunningham etc to play LF.
he’s also suggesting that Eckstein is still a Padre.
Did you guys actually read my post?
Not really. I generally cue substance out when I see people start throwing around fake lineups.
You’re suggesting they get rid of their only remaining legitimate hitter in Ludwick?
This forum, is why no one likes Yankees fans. Not huge on Boston, but at least they’re not full of derps.
Everyone loves miserable mutts fans
Everyone loves miserable mutts fans
This forum, is why no one likes Yankees fans. Not huge on Boston, but at least they’re not full of derps.
and he will get Crawford too so that means the Red Sox have a better team than the Yankees.
No they won’t…the Red Sox won’t add another left hand bat. They will sign overrated Werth instead.
now trade Ellsbury to the Braves 😀
for who? boston would probably want a lights out type of BP arm, would you be willing to trade one of venters/kimbrel? value wise its probably a smart move, however, i dont think they should pull that off because they are both so much more valuable to the braves because we cant afford to buy a BP this season
Please? We have all the pitching prospects you could ask for. We want to be legit WS contenders! With A-Gon(no, not that one) as our only hole.
Ellsbury is not going anywhere.
now trade Ellsbury to the Braves 😀
As a yankee fan, as long as we get Lee, this is going to be a close race. I don’t think the Rays are going to be able to compete. As long as Jeter, Arod, and Teix bounce back I still think we have the better team.
“As long as Jeter, Arod, and Teix bounce back I still think we have the better team.”
Only if Youkilis and Pedroia don’t recover from injury. Bringing in Lee puts the Yankees’ rotation at about on par with the Sox if Lackey and Beckett DON’T bounce back. If Pettitte comes back, the rotations will probably be about even. Then getting to the lineups, Pedroia tops Jeter, Gonzalez tops Teixeira and Youkilis tops A-Rod. If Cano continues to perform, the lineups are essentially a push. I’d say Gonzalez would put the Sox over the top, and that’s assuming the Sox don’t make any other moves this offseason.
At about on par? Assuming they get LEe and assuming Pettitte comes back, can you remotely compare CC/Lee/Pettitte to Lester/Beckett/Lackey?I’ll give you the better 4/5 with Dice-K/Buch or Buch/Dice-K over AJ/Hughes (Or Hughes/AJ lol). But 1-3 clearly would go to the Yankees in that case.I don’t exepct Andy Pettitte despite not pitching in many games last year to have a low a ERA as he had, but neither Lackey or Beckett have had as low an ERA as Pettitte had since 2007.And don’t use Buch as your Top 3 example because the Red Sox didn’t give Beckett a contract extention and sign Lackey to be their number 3/4 starters. They are their 2-3 starters. From 1-10 (assuming Lee and Pettitte go to NY), how would you rank the Yankees and Red Sox 10 starters?I’ll go1- Lee2- Sabathia3- Lester4- Pettitte5- Buch (I need more than 1 year to judge him but I”ll put him top 5)6- Lackey7- Beckett8- Dice-K9- Hughes10- AJMaybe Dice-K/Hughes the same levels.As I said, those kind of rankings would put the Yankees top 3 better than the Red Sox top 3, but also puts the Red Sox bottom 2/3 better than the Yankees bottom 2/3.
Even with only one full season as a sample, I certainly would put Buch ahead of an aging Andy P. Clay has absolutely lights out stuff.
Yes he does, but don’t expect him to be in the top 3 order in the Red Sox rotation next year unless BEckett collapses and is forced down.
Besides the playoffs though the actual rotation order is kind of meaningless. Buch is probably a better pitcher than Beckett at this point but Beckett may be higher in the rotation just out of respect for a veteran they are paying $16M a year to.
If the Yankees got Lee, I would not be surprised to see AJ/Hughes as the 3rd starter ahead of Andy just so they don’t have 3 lefties pitching in a row. Against the Sox though it might not be a bad idea.
Yes he does, but don’t expect him to be in the top 3 order in the Red Sox rotation next year unless BEckett collapses and is forced down.
Buch and Hughes are the wild cards on that list because they are so young and have shown flashes of greatness. They can both be anywhere from 4-10.
AJ last year is indeed a distant 10th, but that elusive “Good AJ” can be much higher if that new pitching coach can find him. Otherwise that list is about right.
Matter of fact it wouldn’t be unfair of me to put Beckett even as low as 8th or 9th.
Matter of fact it wouldn’t be unfair of me to put Beckett even as low as 8th or 9th.
Completely agree, the yanks have the better rotation. The lineups are about equal, I think teix = Agonz, and how are is this guy comparing pedroia and jeter? isn’t cano and pedroia? Cano is better then Pedroia. Scutaro/Lowerie < Jeter. Arod = Youk. Montero is better then Salty.
Teix isn’t even close to = to Gonzalez. Gonzalez piles up equivalent numbers in a pitchers’ park. Look at Teixeira’s road splits outside of Yankee stadium, he OPS’ed in the 700’s last year on the road.
So what, at the end of the season, their numbers are usually similar. You can pencil them both in for 30 and 100 every year with a very good obp, and .280-.290 batting averages, with incredible defense.
Last year was obviously a crappy year for Tex. If you look at their numbers over the past 4 years, Tex had a higher wOBA (which I believe factors in stadiums??) in 3 of them. I think they are very equal though.
“At about on par? Assuming they get LEe and assuming Pettitte comes back, can you remotely compare CC/Lee/Pettitte to Lester/Beckett/Lackey?”
Yes, I can:
Last year, the Sox rotation put up a FIP almost 3/4 of a run lower than that of the Yankees with an ineffective and hurt Beckett, a slow starting Lackey and an injured Matsuzaka. If Matsuzaka and Beckett make even a 50% bounceback and Lackey continues the trend he started (His numbers improved across the board in the second half), the Sox easily have the better rotation right now and with Lee added in, they might be essentially on par.
The Yankees will be upgrading Dustin Mosely/Ivan Nova to Cliff Lee though.
I don’t think any bounce back by Lackey or Beckett (or AJ for that matter) will have as big an effect on the rotations as replacing Ivan Nova with Cliff Lee.
And also getting rid of Vazquez as well.
Tex has had a better wOBA than AGon in 3 of the last 4 years. ARod and Youk have been very similar over that same time span so I am not sure how you drew the above conclusions. I realize ARod is getting older but Youk is going to be 32 at the start of this year and is not exactly a specimen of physical fitness.
This really forces the Yankees to do whatever they need to do to get Lee though.
And you also have to keep in mind the fact that now that the redsox have Agonz, and are going for Werth, you can be almost certain the yankees are looking at Crawford. I was watching tv yesterday, and it said that the yanks are looking at Crawford already, and that was before this trade happened. While I don’t particularly want a deal to happen, don’t be surprised if they make an aggressive push for him. If they can deal Granderson and get some prospects and a proven bullpen arm back, the yankees could be much more dangerous then the Redsox.
CC
Lee
Pettite
Hughes
AJ
Jeter SS
Crawford LF
Teix 1B
Arod 3B
Cano 2B
Posada DH
Swisher RF
Montero C
Gardner CF
That’s the only way that happens, if they trade Granderson, then they’d go after Crawford, but I don’t see them doing that.
If they trade Granderson, they most likely would have to eat his salary. They need a starter (Lee hopefully), and a lefty reliever, unless you make some kind of trade for one. Can’t think of any teams off the top of my head right now that have a good/great lefty reliever and maybe a subpar centerfielder.
Finally. Gonzalez is one of those hitters who makes everyone else around him better. as much as i hate him, kind of like A-Rod or a Ramirez. Look how much better Tex and Ortiz got when you stuck them in front of those superstars. Tex is a great player regardless of A-Rod but his ceiling was 30hrs on his own, with A-Rod he gets better pitches to hit. similar with Ortiz. Just a theory but we may see Youk’s home run numbers increase to almost 40 this year.
Finally. Gonzo is one of those rare hitters who actually makes everyone else around him better. Kind of like A-Rod and Texeria, or Manny and Ortiz. Tex was great on his own probably about a 30 hr ceiling, he goes to the bronx and mashes 40 in his first year, why cause A-Rod was batting next. Why was Ortiz so good throughout those championship years, same reason Manny Ramirez. You may complain about Ortiz’s steroids but without Manny Ortiz puts up Mark Texeria power numbers. Ortiz is not the one who is gonna benefit most from this though that’s gonna be YOOUUK. Just a theory but watch Youk get real close if not break 40 bombs this year.
Yes, you can absolutely tell that Gonzalez makes everyone else better. The Padres’ powerhouse offense proves it.
What an asinine comment. The Padres had no significant offensive talent outside of Gonzalez. As good as he is, Pujols would have done nothing more for SD’s lineup than Gonzazlez did.
Asinine. Good word.
Yes, you can absolutely tell that Gonzalez makes everyone else better. The Padres’ powerhouse offense proves it.
you just posted that same thing 6 minutes earlier…..im just sayin
i know my computer messed up. i posted before and it didnt say that it did.
you just posted that same thing 6 minutes earlier…..im just sayin
For the record, Mark Teixara averaged 35.4 Home Runs in the five years before coming to the Yankees, and has averaged 36 since coming to the Yankees. Hitting around ARod hasn’t helped his HR production at all.
For the record, Mark Teixara averaged 35.4 Home Runs in the five years before coming to the Yankees, and has averaged 36 since coming to the Yankees. Hitting around ARod hasn’t helped his HR production at all.
Kelly, Rizzo, Fuentes…all are a few years away from the majors….good trade by boston
Yep but that better than what they would’ve gotten with the picks.
“Kelly, Rizzo, and Reymond Fuentes.”
Oof, that stings. I was pretty high on both Kelly and Fuentes. You’ve gotta give to get, though.
Kelly has upside but he still needs plenty more seasoning Petco is going to be huge for him though. Now I was really impressed with Fuentes when I saw him! That kid can fly and plays really good D in CF but still has a ways to go at the plate, could be huge or could be another Luis Durango for the Pads. Rizzo is a nice bat with questionable defense at 1B. Overall it’s a nice haul for 1 yr of Gonzalez because 9 times out of ten he wasn’t gonna re-sign with the Pads anyway
YOU’RE MY BOY BLU!!!!
Of all the players Boston gave up, you will miss Fuentes the most, wasnt that guy a cousin to Carlos Beltran and had huge upside to become a 5-tool player, Casey Kelly will be decent and Rizzo will be solid, this is an all around good trade if Gonzo stays healthy.
fuentes is like ellsbury….speed speed speed, no arm, no power, contact hitter….not a 5 tool guy
He is only 19, remember how you guys didnt think Hanley was good and you guys got Beckett? (Lowell was a throw in) the deal was for beckett, and you guys didnt think much at all about Hanley, this guy is going to be your Hanley, Fuentes has a LOT of upside, probably why only three players are being mentioned, Kelly is awesome, Rizzo is solid, and Fuentes is going to be amazing.
yes they did
Did you just compare Fuentes to the best SS in the game? Do you know Fuentes personally or something?
your recollection of that trade reaction is completely wrong.
He is only 19, remember how you guys didnt think Hanley was good and you guys got Beckett? (Lowell was a throw in) the deal was for beckett, and you guys didnt think much at all about Hanley, this guy is going to be your Hanley, Fuentes has a LOT of upside, probably why only three players are being mentioned, Kelly is awesome, Rizzo is solid, and Fuentes is going to be amazing.
Fuentes is 3 full years at the very least away from making a big league roster. His bat tool and his power tool are also very unlikely to ever be plus. Kelly is, by far, the headliner in this deal.
maybe to you he is, he is 19 and has a lot of upside, trust me when i say Hoyer knew what he was doing by getting him in the package and trust me when Epstein ended the package at three players.
maybe to you he is, he is 19 and has a lot of upside, trust me when i say Hoyer knew what he was doing by getting him in the package and trust me when Epstein ended the package at three players.
weird how San Diego didnt want Lars Anderson…..
Wow. Seems like a small return if only Kelly, Fuentes, and Rizzo are part of the deal. I like all three of the prospects but you’d think that the deal would have to include someone closer to the Show. Nice job, Theo.
I have a feeling this is only the first of many improvements the Sox will make over the winter.
Boston can afford to give up a few prospects because they are already deep and they will have the #19 pick from DET (unless they sign Werth), a 2nd round pick from OAK (assuming they sign Beltre) and 2 or 3 supplemental picks (depending if Felipe Lopez signs elswhere)
Bowie Kuhn blocked the A’s – Reds Vida Blue trade in the ’70’s. This trade is even more one-sided than that one. How about some competitive balance assurances, Selig. This is the kind of trade that is only good for the big markets.
Boston is giving up 2 top prospects and a slightly lesser one for a guy who would leave SD at the end of the year anyway…and they will have to pay him $20+ mil per year…..its balanced
It’s not one sided. All three of those guys are good prospects with 18 total years of control for one year of one player.
I don’t know how you are saying that. The Padres are getting a nice package of prospects for one year of Gonzalez. It’s not like they were going to extend him (I believe they already tried and failed). Better to get something for him then see him walk and take (unknown) draft picks.
It is completely one sided but Selig and the owners don’t care. Until fans stop going to the games, this type of thing will continue.
Just because you say it, doesn’t make it so.
Any guesses on what his contract is like…?
I think something a tad bit less than Texiera got. The Sox are not the yankees and b/c the Yankees would not be in the market for AGON if he did hit free agency he loses a little bit of leverage.
I’m going to say its 6 or 7 yrs worth 20 or 21 per.
Will the Boston fans on here have to be put on suicide watch if this falls through becuase AGon and the Sox can’t agree on an extension?
Will the Boston fans on here have to be put on suicide watch if this falls through becuase AGon and the Sox can’t agree on an extension?
How about if Pujols becomes a FA? the devil works in weird ways, Boston fans have been wanting Adrian for so long they may not realize the best 1b of all time is a year away from testing the waters of free agency and they would of kept their Casey Kelly.
How about if Pujols becomes a FA? the devil works in weird ways, Boston fans have been wanting Adrian for so long they may not realize the best 1b of all time is a year away from testing the waters of free agency and they would of kept their Casey Kelly.
I have my belt noose ready, just in case.
Haha.
I bet AGon would love to know if Pujols will get extended by the Cards.
I expected better from San Diego in prospect returns. A steal easily for Boston.
isnt there another player in this deal or am i wrong?
it is just the three players… the contract extension is gonna be huge… maybe 7 yr 20-22million annually
I was expecting Kalish to move but it seems like the names mentioned are the final deal. I think the only thing keeping this from being official is a pass on physical.
It sounds like they want a pitcher and it could be Daniel Turpen eligible for Rule 5 draft, or it could be Bowden/Tazawa/Turpen or Josh Reddick i dont think it is Lowrie, Iglesias, or Kalish
It sounds like they want a pitcher and it could be Daniel Turpen eligible for Rule 5 draft, or it could be Bowden/Tazawa/Turpen or Josh Reddick i dont think it is Lowrie, Iglesias, or Kalish
Great trade for Boston.
If this was all that was required, why wasn’t this deal done sooner?
Clearly its a better haul than losing him for the draft picks, but I expected more.
As a Jays fan I shudder. Keep stockpiling talent I guess. Tampa Bay north model…. with more cash.
the jays are probably gonna wind up with upton… who in the long haul could be twice as good as werth or crawford
“Tampa Bay north model…. with more cash”
Not exactly a bad model. The Rays would be the class of the MLB if they had the cash to supplement their strong drafting.
Yankee fans should be thrilled. This means the Steinbrenner’s will add more money to the Lee deal to make sure they get him and then sign Crawford as well. They certainly won’t let the Red Sox deal go without responding.
the sox will go after werth.. not crawford… to many lefties
imo id still want crawford over worth, magine a 1-2 of ellsbury … plus crawford isnt horrible against lefties… just sayin.
I wouldn’t say thrilled but this does make a Lee signing much more likely in my opinion. That is how an arms race goes.
I wouldn’t say thrilled but this does make a Lee signing much more likely in my opinion. That is how an arms race goes.
The last time the yanks directly responded to the Red Sox spending big they paid $50M to get Kei Igawa… just saying.
That’s right… Jeff Francouer… expect a call from Cashman anytime soon…
just saying!!
Wow, that’s the 2nd slam against Igawa in this thread. You guys act like he sucks or something…just saying.
Wow, that’s the 2nd slam against Igawa in this thread. You guys act like he sucks or something…just saying.
padres lineup
Maybin
Eckstein
Ludwick
Blanks
Headley
Hundley
Venable
Cabrera
That line up is world series bound for sure.
That line up is world series bound for sure.
I can’t begin to tell you how sad this makes me. Though I’m a Rockies fan, I am from San Diego and I usually pull for the teams operating on low costs. And to see the Red Sox, who I disdain (see: 2007 WS), pick up one of the best players in the division/league is very disheartening. I guess with their rotation, and this addition, we should expect to see a Yankees/Red Sox ALCS. Yawn. Maybe I’m the only one who wishes to see new teams succeed every year. It’s way more exciting to see a team like the 2006 Tigers come from the dregs of the league and become a World Series contender, then to see the Yankees again.
Since you like to see new teams succeed every year, you must have been celebrating over the Giants, right? ; )
Since you like to see new teams succeed every year, you must have been celebrating over the Giants, right? ; )
You may, but as far as ratings go, the rest of America would disagree.
yeah, im sick of the same old teams winning it, no more San Fransisco and no more Yankkes, and no more Phillies, and no more Red Sox, and no more Cardinals, oh wait, a different team has won it all for the last how many years? since 2005? dont worry, there is always a cinderella team that warms your heart that they are there, the Rays, the Rangers, the Tigers, shoot remember the Marlins? its baseball, in October it doesnt matter how many regular season games you win, remember the Yankees got mad the Cards won the Series and won what 86 games? that was epic.
Actually, 83 wins.
Is it just me or are these recent updates being shown in PM time and not AM time right now on the page?
No, they are being shown as p.m, confused me a little too, especially because i am pacific time.
Not just you, I’m getting it too.
Just woke up, it’s like an early Christmas present!
In the words of Homer Simpson: “Wa-HOOOOOO!”
Just woke up, it’s like an early Christmas present!
In the words of Homer Simpson: “Wa-HOOOOOO!”
So it looks like Kalish or Lowrie could very well be in the deal. There is always more to find out in these big deals.
Edit: disregard this post, it’s not correct.
How did you manage to get to that conclusion?
I wasnt thinking straight, lol.
I think it could be Daniel Turpen RP to be honest
This is a horrible trade for the Padres. Not getting a middle infielder absolutely kills us – for two guys who hit 270 in AA and A respectively and another with an ERA of 5 in AA? What a joke – MLB had better look at tampering charges for the Red Sox’s AAAA team in SD
This is a horrible trade for the Padres. Not getting a middle infielder absolutely kills us – for two guys who hit 270 in AA and A respectively and another with an ERA of 5 in AA? What a joke – MLB had better look at tampering charges for the Red Sox’s AAAA team in SD
i wonder who the pads and sox agreed to put on the PTBNL list??
Michael Bowden
could be Daniel Turpen
My guess is it’s someone from the 2010 draft.
How is it that people are saying this trade is unbalanced?? The Fathers of San Diego are receiving our top prospect, who in many peoples eyes is a sure-fire future Ace. Along with that, a young 1b who just smashed 25 HR and 100 rbis in the minors, who’s best comparison is Todd Helton. Then you also receive Carlos Beltran’s cousin who is raw, but full of upside. Not too mention that A-Gone is coming off serious shoulder surgery and has 1 year left. If you dealt him last year, you would have received the moon, now though, this is a fair haul. Not to mention the PTBN…which has me a bit nervous.
Carlos Beltran’s cousin, why does this matter exactly? Should the yankees go the diamondbacks and offer zach Grienke’s brother and see what happens because i think they can if he’s still even in the league.
I bet Todd Helton hit better than 270 in AA. And how is Carlos Beltran’s cousin (who has 0 power) “full of upside” And that’s some sure-fire ace who had a 5.00 ERA in AA. He wasn’t even the ace of that staff
Adrian is a bonafide star. These prospects are “supposed” to be good. Well that usually does not pan out. If one of these players becomes great, I will be surprised. The Sox got the far better end of the deal, and San Diego is left to hope that these prospects can step up their game and contribute in the near future.
I would have rather received Ellsbury, Lowrie and one propect.
To be honest I would rather have given up Ellsbury, Lowrie and one prospect.
To be honest I would rather have given up Ellsbury, Lowrie and one prospect.
Adrian is a bonafide star. These prospects are “supposed” to be good. Well that usually does not pan out. If one of these players becomes great, I will be surprised. The Sox got the far better end of the deal, and San Diego is left to hope that these prospects can step up their game and contribute in the near future.
I would have rather received Ellsbury, Lowrie and one propect.
todd helton?
rizzo’s milb career #’s= .284/.354/.469/.822 115bb/ 248k 38hr/ 282g
helton milb #’s= .329/.416/.491/.907 152bb/ 151k 26hr/ 274g
rizzo career AA= .263/.334/.481/.815 45bb/ 100k
helton career AA= .332/.425/.486/.911 51bb/ 37k
rizzo never ranked in BA top 100
helton ranked #32/ #16/ #11 by BA
HA!
watch the last player be Britton and Theo nixes the deal and we have to go through this all over again and people start all trade proposals with Kelly, Rizzo, Fuentes, and then who they think the Padres should of taken over Britton….
I doubt it’s Britton… I’d think that name would have been mentioned already. Could be wrong.
You realize that theo knows who the player to be named later is right he’s not going to care if it’s britton.
they have to set a list of PTBNL in order to make a deal work just for that reason. Also if the red sox get Gonzo to sign a extension the pads get a better prospect for the PTBNL
“it’s possible the player is a minor leaguer not on the 40-man that’s eligible for the Rule 5.” – Andrew Miller??
i see no reason for the pads wanting him plus he was non tender if im not mistaken, but makes you wonder who it could be.
i see no reason for the pads wanting him plus he was non tender if im not mistaken, but makes you wonder who it could be.
“it’s possible the player is a minor leaguer not on the 40-man that’s eligible for the Rule 5.” – Andrew Miller??
Good trade for the sox. The padres got some good, maybe great talent for down the road. I am shocked there was no Kalish, Lowrie , or even Dubront for some more immediate help. I doubt this trade can be evaluated for at least 4 years but I am glad we held onto Kalish, Iglecias, and Lowrie.
Good trade for the sox. The padres got some good, maybe great talent for down the road. I am shocked there was no Kalish, Lowrie , or even Dubront for some more immediate help. I doubt this trade can be evaluated for at least 4 years but I am glad we held onto Kalish, Iglecias, and Lowrie.
Oh wow, where will small market Boston come up with all that money?!!? ::end sarcasm::
Also, how long until Peter Gammons smear campaign of Casey Kelly begins?
Oh wow, where will small market Boston come up with all that money?!!? ::end sarcasm::
Also, how long until Peter Gammons smear campaign of Casey Kelly begins?
Wait, when did Adrian Gonzalez become an injury risk..?
Only on this site…
Anyone coming off shoulder surgery, in my opinion, can accurately be labeled an injury risk. It really does depend on which shoulder though. His shoulder should hold up after surgery, I’m just worried about how long it will take Adrian to recover to full strength.
Non-throwing shoulder.
Your non-throwing arm is the one that generates most of your power batting. Not saying I think he is an injury risk though.
Non-throwing shoulder.
… He’s played at least 156 games a year since becoming an everyday starter. So he had shoulder surgery? He’s still going to be ready for opening day (at this point). Therefore, he’s no where close to an injury risk.
Non-throwing shoulder; not an extensive repair, just a labral debridement for a small tear.
yeah, but the problem is he can’t swing a bat for about 4 months… his arm (which generates the power in his swing) might not be the same as it was for longer than 4 months, strength-wise
Only because of surgical precautions to let the labrum heal. He’s already well into his rehab and by reports his physical went very well. Yes, I wouldn’t expect him to blast out the gate since he can’t swing until March 1, but I also expect him to be fine in the long run as he won’t have the pain he did last year.
Wait, when did Adrian Gonzalez become an injury risk..?
Only on this site…
LOL go ahead and pay 25$ a season for 5 years of A-Gon, He’s not Albert Pujols…
No he is not, but he is petty darn close to pujols. Could you name Two 1st baseman that you would rather have over A-gon? ( pujols not included)
No one is Albert Pujols. But he is easily worth 25 million per year. I am not entirely sure what point you are trying to get off her.
LOL go ahead and pay 25$ a season for 5 years of A-Gon, He’s not Albert Pujols…
To those who think the Padres aren’t getting enough.. you should read up on what they’re getting…
According to BASEBALL AMERICA
Casey kelly is the #1 sox prospect and is projected as their #3 starter behind Lester and Buccholz. He’s already produced the best curveball in the entire system and he is a great young kid by all reports.
Anthony Rizzo is the #3 prospect in the system and is rated to be the best power hitter in the system. The scouting reports also say he has above avg defensive ability with a plus arm. He can play 1st or 3rd.
Reymond Fuentes is the #6 prospect in the Sox system who defensively is ready now at age 19. He’s got 60 steals and 100 RBI in approx. 160 minor league games. He’s reminds me of Kenny Lofton personally. we’ll see though…
Plus the latest reports suggest there’s another player on top of all that.
The sox only get AGON for ONE SEASON at a good rate and then an extension is up to them. He’s a great player and i’ll take him in the middle of the order, but he also just had surgery and will be lucky to be ready for the beginning of spring training which is also a good size risk on the Sox part. Noone is complaining about that..
It’s hard to complain when you have a left handed power hitter sitting in the middle of your line up that takes the ball to the opposite side of the field with power…
Just saying – I’d have 0 problems trading prospects for a threat like this for years to come.
Funny how you don’t mention their actual numbers. Like how Kelly had an ERA of over 5 in AA. And how Rizzo hit .263, also in AA. Or how Fuentes only managed to hit .270 in A ball. Baseball America must be on something
Ya, but potential ceiling is actually more important than numbers at the minor league level.
numbers indicate the likelihood of reaching said ceiling. the numbers ARE important. AA and AAA numbers DO matter.
Funny how you don’t mention their actual numbers. Like how Kelly had an ERA of over 5 in AA. And how Rizzo hit .263, also in AA. Or how Fuentes only managed to hit .270 in A ball. Baseball America must be on something
I have to laugh at this. Gary Sanchez is rated #2 in the Yanks system but it certainly doesn’t translate to anything he might do in the MLB yet.
I really don’t see the difference between Rizzo and Laird except for the 2 year difference in age. They were both drafted in 2007 and both spent most of 2010 @ AA. Laird finished at AAA. Their numbers are almost identical. Rizzo is rated 3rd for the Sox and Laird 10th for the Yanks.
’10 @ AA @ age 20-Rizzo- .263/.334/.481 w 20 hrs w 45 bb & 100 ko in 467 PA. 15 ER @ 1B
’10 @ AA @ age 22-Laird- .291/.355/.523 w 23 hrs w 38 bb & 84 ko in 454 PA. 20 ER @3B
For the record. My prediction last night was….
Kelly, Fuentes, Tejada, Lowrie and Doubront.
I have my doubts about Kelly but will accept the thought that he’s an ace in the making. I really like Fuentes ever since he was drafted but he’s probably 3 years away, which is fine because so are the Padres. I never thought it made sense for the Pads to ask for Ellsbury but I see Fuentes as a younger version of him. Tejada was a prospect never mentioned before but addresses a Pads need up the middle. They have better prospects than Doubront but you can never have too much pitching right? Lowrie probably won’t be in the deal because they said only minor lge players.
Good acquisition for the Sox none the less. COngrats to the fans because this deal has been 2 years in the making.
‘you should read up on what they’re getting.’ then you said ‘rizzo can play 1st or 3rd.’ he throws lefthanded. i stopped reading after that.
To those who think the Padres aren’t getting enough.. you should read up on what they’re getting…
According to BASEBALL AMERICA
Casey kelly is the #1 sox prospect and is projected as their #3 starter behind Lester and Buccholz. He’s already produced the best curveball in the entire system and he is a great young kid by all reports.
Anthony Rizzo is the #3 prospect in the system and is rated to be the best power hitter in the system. The scouting reports also say he has above avg defensive ability with a plus arm. He can play 1st or 3rd.
Reymond Fuentes is the #6 prospect in the Sox system who defensively is ready now at age 19. He’s got 60 steals and 100 RBI in approx. 160 minor league games. He’s reminds me of Kenny Lofton personally. we’ll see though…
Plus the latest reports suggest there’s another player on top of all that.
The sox only get AGON for ONE SEASON at a good rate and then an extension is up to them. He’s a great player and i’ll take him in the middle of the order, but he also just had surgery and will be lucky to be ready for the beginning of spring training which is also a good size risk on the Sox part. Noone is complaining about that..
When was the last time a thread had over 900 comments?
halladay trade.
Didnt that one get over 2k? I remember I couldn’t reload fast enough to keep up
When was the last time a thread had over 900 comments?
not surprised to see casey kelly traded. it seems the sox talked him up pretty good despite a pretty crappy season. ‘people in the organization think he’s gonna be an ace’ or ‘he’s hitting the mid 90’s w/ his fb, has a plus curve and change’. still couldn’t get AA hitters out. i’d rather have britton. rizzo hit .260 last year and struck out 25% of his ABs. fuentes is a nice piece but he’s gotta be at least 2 1/2 years away. not impressed at all from sd point of view.
To save time just look through my comments where we’ve had this fight before.
same to you.
To save time just look through my comments where we’ve had this fight before.
not surprised to see casey kelly traded. it seems the sox talked him up pretty good despite a pretty crappy season. ‘people in the organization think he’s gonna be an ace’ or ‘he’s hitting the mid 90’s w/ his fb, has a plus curve and change’. still couldn’t get AA hitters out. i’d rather have britton. rizzo hit .260 last year and struck out 25% of his ABs. fuentes is a nice piece but he’s gotta be at least 2 1/2 years away. not impressed at all from sd point of view.
Congrats to the Red Sox fans. You just robbed the Padres blind. You all owe Petey Gammons, Baseball American, Keith Law and ESPN fruitcakes for overhyping your prospects to the point they could be the centerpiece for a perennial MVP 1b.
However, I don’t know how Boston is going to deal with the fact that Gonzalez is not homegrown! Gasp! You not only dumped your prospects for him, but you’re paying twice with a massive extension. That’s downright Evil Empire-ish, ain’t it?
Bootstrap prospect baseball takes a hit in Boston. The Nation swaps it’s Lands End flannel for Gucci. News at 11.
sarcasm much?
Do you really believe Major league GM’s are swayed by the likes of Gammons? I rather think they have a plethora of scouts who know much more than we do.
Don’t you people understand already? It’s a massive conspiracy to pump up Red Sox prospect by writers in ESPN with the backing of the Free Masons and Illuminati! The ultimate goal: To rule the world! Bwa-ha-ha!
My bad, I stand corrected. lol
Don’t forget the Skull & Bones Society….and who are graduates of Yale University? Theo Epstein, Tom Yawkey and Larry Lucchino. Now do I have evidence of a conspiracy? No. But in the word of Gin Rummy “the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence”.
Damn. He’s got us guys. We all know that no other team beside the Yankees has ever traded for a good player. On behalf of Red Sox Nation I lay down my sword and offer you unconditional surrender.
I accept it. And you still suck Igawa. Lose the shades already, will ya?
lol this was entertaining
lol this was entertaining
Blame Jed Hoyer, special assistant to Theo Epstein oh wait I mean GM of the Padres
Right, this guys going to risk his entire career just because you think he owes Theo something. That makes complete sense…
After this fleecing I’m sure Theo would welcome him back with open arms and give him a permanent job
You’re delusional if you think that would ever be allowed to happen. There would be a huge scandal and people would be banned if that happened. It’s fairly obvious you just hate the Sox and are trying your hardest to make them look bad but you are just making yourself look like a fool. Stop trolling.
As a matter of fact I do not hate the Red Sox, but am a huge Padre fan. I used to like the Red Sox, until I actually met some of their fans. This trade is uneven, and shows everything that’s wrong with baseball. Apparently you Red Sox fans are too deluded to realize that having the ability to wrest the best players from the rest of the league in order to compete with the Yankees is just horrible for baseball.
In case you forgot, the Padres were closer to the playoffs than the Red Sox, and look what we have to show for it.
That’s fine but you are talking about conspiracy and fraud, if that is what happened they risk being caught and likely banned from baseball. It just doesn’t make any sense to accuse them of something like that.
No. If anything he’s trying to make Theo look great and Hoyer like a pansy.
After this fleecing I’m sure Theo would welcome him back with open arms and give him a permanent job
Right, this guys going to risk his entire career just because you think he owes Theo something. That makes complete sense…
Blame Jed Hoyer, special assistant to Theo Epstein oh wait I mean GM of the Padres
Yes we owe it all Peter Gammons, Baseball America, Keith Law and ESPN because YOU know better than they and the Padres do (including Hoyer who helped draft and develop these players).
Save some tissues for your fellow Yanks fans. Geesh.
Save some tissues for your fellow Yanks fans. Geesh.
Congrats to the Red Sox fans. You just robbed the Padres blind. You all owe Petey Gammons, Baseball American, Keith Law and ESPN fruitcakes for overhyping your prospects to the point they could be the centerpiece for a perennial MVP 1b.
However, I don’t know how Boston is going to deal with the fact that Gonzalez is not homegrown! Gasp! You not only dumped your prospects for him, but you’re paying twice with a massive extension. That’s downright Evil Empire-ish, ain’t it?
Bootstrap prospect baseball takes a hit in Boston. The Nation swaps it’s Lands End flannel for Gucci. News at 11.
As a Jays fan I’m pretty upset. That package is pretty light for the Padres IMO.
its more or less equal to the package the jays got for 1 year of halladay, jays might have gotten a little more(maybe because they kicked in 6 million$)
I’d say they got a fair amount more value at the time. 2 Top 25 prospects and 1 Top 50. Show me some recent scouting reports that Kelly is still going to be a sure-fire ace. A 5.3 ERA, 1.6 WHIP in AA doesn’t impress me.
considering the prospects, id take drabek, gose(from wallace) AND D’arnaud anyday instead of kelly, rizzo, fuentes.
And I’d take Halladay over Gonzalez, despite how much I covet Gonzalez. What’s your point?
i was debating the fact that it wasnt equal to the halladay trade, considering jays got a much better return…for a better player thats my point… i was talking to D , not you.
Public forum. If you don’t want random people responding, well, I don’t know what to tell you.
Anything you want because it’s a public forum! 🙂
Anything you want because it’s a public forum! 🙂
from what it seems, the pads will get more if the red sox can sign Gonzo to an extension.
As a Jays fan I’m pretty upset. That package is pretty light for the Padres IMO.
He’s going to want ryan howard money, that’s rough though he’s closer to deserving it than howard is.
And he ONLY wants a 5 year deal? Get it done Theo. 5 years at $21MM a year is much better than 7 or 8 at less.
PLEASE THEO GET IT!
AGone is probably thinking… I might as well get a nice 5 year deal and sign another large deal after, rather than an 8 year contract now limiting his next contract.
Smart if you ask me.
Hell if the Sox can make it 6 years/$140MM (~$23MM a year) get it done. Plus he will hit FA before the complete decline happens and we could get a Type A return for him them.
AGone is probably thinking… I might as well get a nice 5 year deal and sign another large deal after, rather than an 8 year contract now limiting his next contract.
Smart if you ask me.
I am a Red Sox fan and am extremely happy with this haul. Seems like we got AGon relatively cheap (as far as prospects are concerned, he will seek 120-150 mill).
My hypothetical question however is…What happens if Youk struggles at 3b? What happens if he becomes a sub par defensive 3bman?
P.S. I know he has played third and was a 3bman in the minors. Just hypothetical question.
Trade.
Trade.
well then you only have to deal with it one year as Ortiz will be gone,he could just slide over to DH.
A player like Adrian Gonzalez will make all of your infield better with his glove. He will pick throws that many other 1B would not, Sox fans will love him. Best of luck Adrian, thanks for the great memories in PETCO.
Youk’s arm is fine, it’s the range that concerns people. That said, with Iglesias apparently not in the deal, I’m not too worried about Youk’s range.
“Morosi tweets that Gonzalez is seeking a Ryan Howard-like contract. Howard signed a five-year contract extension worth $125MM earlier this year.”
You’re kidding me? SOLD.
“Morosi tweets that Gonzalez is seeking a Ryan Howard-like contract. Howard signed a five-year contract extension worth $125MM earlier this year.”
You’re kidding me? SOLD.
You know what would make this much more balanced deal from a Padres POV?
If Gonzalez does not return to his usual form in 2011 after the surgery and has a terrible season. If the extension was a given, the Padres should have gotten an MLB ready player at least. Or you know what would be even better? If the trade is completed and the sox fail to sign him to an extension and he signs elsewhere after 2011. That would really be hilarious.
The Sox wont let him not sign an extension.
They will give him what he wants and seems to be extremely reasonable so far.
The Sox wont let him not sign an extension.
They will give him what he wants and seems to be extremely reasonable so far.
Except they won’t complete the trade until an extension is all but in place (ex. see Halladay deal).
Do you need us to call the whambulance for you?
hahahaha classic.
This thread is getting pretty funny.
It would be awesome if a massive earthquake shook petco to the ground and the Padres had to play in San Jose, what its not funny to wish terrible things? oh ok.
It would be awesome if a massive earthquake shook petco to the ground and the Padres had to play in San Jose, what its not funny to wish terrible things? oh ok.
You know what would make this much more balanced deal from a Padres POV?
If Gonzalez does not return to his usual form in 2011 after the surgery and has a terrible season. If the extension was a given, the Padres should have gotten an MLB ready player at least. Or you know what would be even better? If the trade is completed and the sox fail to sign him to an extension and he signs elsewhere after 2011. That would really be hilarious.
Per Peter Gammons:
Player tbnl in Gonzalez deal is not prime guy. To be determined, unlike The Foundation to be Named Later
Per Peter Gammons:
Player tbnl in Gonzalez deal is not prime guy. To be determined, unlike The Foundation to be Named Later
As a fan of a team with a similar player (Fielder), I’m sure hope the Brewers don’t settle for a deal like this.
I feel sorry for the Padre fans. None of those guys they are getting back are any more sure things than the guys they could draft with the two high picks they would have gotten had the let Gonzalez leave as a FA. Another deal that causes me to boycott baseball’s postseason on television because the game is rigged.
So because you team sucks so much because they are too cheap to pay players to pay there, the MLB is rigged?
Jesus, pay your players and quit whinning. Every owner in the MLB has the capability of having a $100MM a year payroll. They are just more worried about their own profits that they are too cheap to do it.
I disagree. Some smaller market teams just can’t afford those big payrolls — not even $100 million. It’s not rigged, but the current system isn’t exactly an even playing field.
If the city can’t support the team, move the team to a new city. Easy peasy. The Red Sox and Yankees (etc.) have such large payrolls because of ravenous fan bases, smart marketing and good business models.
At least a third of the markets in MLB can’t support the huge payrolls of the big market teams. Do you really suggest all these small-mid market teams move their franchises? Really?
And Boston and the Yankees have huge payrolls not just because of ravenous fan bases. Lots of smaller market clubs have that too. What they have that the smaller markets don’t is bigger populations which can drive media revenues.
You think the fan bases in NY or Boston are anymore ravenous than St. Louis, for example?
St Louis is not a small market, they have a budget, this point would only be valid if they were talking trades because of the 16 million they are paying Pujols is too much for them to pay. Hence they are a mid- to big market team, especially when they keep their guy at 1st for his whole career.
St. Louis’ market is much smaller than NY or Boston. Not even close. So while they may not be a “small” market, they are certainly NOT big market, and cannot afford a 100+ million payroll every year. You also fail to realize the cost of living in the Midwest and St. Louis is far lower than it is in the East.
This point is always valid, and it may factor in their ability to keep Pujols going forward.
According to the comment that what larger markets have that smaller markets don’t is “bigger populations which can drive media revenues” is incorrect. In the case of New York, yes they are the biggest city in the United States. However, Boston is only ranked 21st. One spot ahead of a small market team such as the Brewers and below other teams that spend less such as Baltimore (18), San Fransisco (14), Detroit (10), Dallas (9), San Diego the team that Gonzalez is being traded from (7), Phoenix (6), Philadelphia (5), Chicago (3) and Los Angeles (2).
Saying that is simply the size of the city is not true. It is in part due to the fan base, media and ownership group. In most cases to spend money means to put a winning team on the field and butts in the seat (except for Seattle).
First, you at least have to look at metropolitan areas, NOT cities. Because teams normally derive revenues and fan bases from areas adjacent to the actual city they reside in. So if you look at metropolitan areas, Boston is 10th in the U.S.
Second, Boston is in a unique position in that they have little competition within their geographical area and can draw from a fan base as large as all of New England.
And, as I pointed out to woadude, you have to consider that the cost of living on the East Coast is generally higher than it is in the Midwest. Therefore, what a team can demand in terms of parking, tickets, food, etc, and even cable subscriber fees (as a regional sports network) can be much larger.
So, while it is not simply a matter of demographics and population, revenues are largely driven by them. They are enormous factors in baseball today in terms of the “haves” and the “have nots.”
If we are taking about metropolitan areas, not just cities then you also have to consider that the Boston area has more in the way of competition from surrounding teams. New York is about a four hour drive, so they compete with the Yanks and Mets, not to mention that Philly is only 6 hours away. In Colorado the closest team around is probably either the Diamondbacks or the Cardinals, same goes for Seattle and other small market teams.
The east coast is also not inherently more expensive then the midwest. The Red Sox do not actually provide any parking for most fans, most have to take the T to the park. Whereas Milwaukee owns it’s parking lot. The Sox and Yankees are lucky in that they have basically there own networks, yes, but what is stopping other teams from doing that?
Revenues are largely driven by fan base, brand recognition, owners ability to shell out cash and to a minor degree stadium. Also, if you look at the list of metropolitan areas, teams that are small market are within at least 500,000 of the Boston metropolitan area, so I find this logic pretty flawed.
Huh? No, I’m talking about “Metropolitan” areas as defined by the U.S. Census. Do a google search. They are areas that contain a densely packed city proper plus areas within close proximity related by commerce and employment. And Boston is the 10th largest metropolitan area in the country.
As for its unique status, Boston has virtually no competition in the upper New England area. This is as opposed to Metropolitan areas such as NY, Philadelphia, and Washington DC which infringe upon each other. And in the NY area, of course, you have two major league teams.
For Colorado, St. Louis, and AZ, they are situated in less densely packed and populated metropolitan areas. And, again, the cost of living in those areas is a lot less than it is in NY or Boston.
What is stopping other teams from owning their own networks? For the small-mid market teams, demographics and population. You need revenue to run a station. Where does the majority of that revenue come from? Ad fees and cable subscriber fees. Which are inherently based on NUMBERS. You need large populations to run a large successful regional sports network. YES, SNY and NESN can draw from extremely large population areas which are densely packed.
Revenues are based on multiple things — but it’s a fact that the advent of paid TV tipped the scales in favor of large metropolitan areas. It a huge differentiating factor between markets of different sizes.
As for Boston, again, it’s in a unique position in being able to draw easily from neighboring NE states. BUT, even if you leave those areas out, and JUST include the official “metropolitan” areas, Boston is SIGNIFICANTLY LARGER in population than many of the small-mid market teams.
Here are the teams/cities whose populations in their metropolitan areas are MORE than 500,000 less than Boston:
Seattle
Minnesota
San Diego
St. Louis
Tampa
Baltimore
Denver
Pittsburgh
Cincinnati
Cleveland
Kansas City
Milwaukee
Put the Red Sox or the Yankees in Milwaukee and their payrolls would have to shrink enormously in order for them to survive. That area simply does not have the population and demographics to support a baseball team with an annual 160+ million payroll.
yeah thats why they did an investigation on what teams were doing with the luxury tax money right? it does come back to what the owner wants to make, they sell jerseys and have tv rights and and everything to hot dogs to paying 30 dollars to park your car, when you add it up, they make near a billion dollars plus, the Padres owner turned gray when he had to pay 6 million to an elite player, thats how far behind he is on the times.
LOL, who did an investigation? Actually, the finances of only a few teams leaked out, and it showed there was no way in hell a team like the Pirates could ever afford a payroll of 100+ million every year. So thanks for proving my point. The population and demographics just aren’t there. Revenue sharing or no revenue sharing.
Also, it was not the Luxury Tax money which was detailed in those reports, it was revenue sharing money. They are two different things.
And, no, it doesn’t all come back to what an owner wants to make. With the economics of baseball today, small-mid market franchises will always be at a disadvantage.
yeah thats why they did an investigation on what teams were doing with the luxury tax money right? it does come back to what the owner wants to make, they sell jerseys and have tv rights and and everything to hot dogs to paying 30 dollars to park your car, when you add it up, they make near a billion dollars plus, the Padres owner turned gray when he had to pay 6 million to an elite player, thats how far behind he is on the times.
Myopia has entered the building! Never a more untrue statement has been spoken. Revenues for any team fluctuate as the fan-base and revenue stream does. All of a teams revenue cannot go into payroll.
Did you forget about little things called stadiums, operating costs thereof, staff, scouting, the salaries of minor league players and coaches etc etc etc.
Your attempt at a slam on small market teams and the socialist economic rant has failed…..
No, they’re not sure things, but the quantity in terms of real value exceeds it.
As I pointed out earlier, let’s say the Padres let him walk. Now, most people assume the Sox would’ve signed him. If that happens, the Padres get the Red Sox’ first round pick and a sandwich pick. Presumably a mid to high twenties pick and a fifty to sixty something pick.
Fuentes and Kelly were both first rounders, mid-twenties picks, which is, by nature, better than what the Padres would’ve gotten from the supplemental picks since two mid to late twenties picks trumps a mid to late twenties and a fifty or so. On top of that, they’re getting a sixth rounder who has high power potential and a PTBNL.
Whether you like the deal or not, it has more tangible value than letting him walk at the end of next year would have.
You are ignoring the fact that Adrian on the Padres for one more year is worth an awful lot especially after last season when we took the world series champs to the very last game to see who won the division. Trading Adrian and not getting any major league ready talent in return is throwing away a season in which the Padres could have competed. A possible trip to the playoffs in which anything is possible (see SF Giants) and two first round picks is worth more to me than 3 prospects and a player to be named later.
While I agree that now was not the time for the Padres to trade him, now was also not the time to ask for MLB ready talent. Without Gonzalez, the Padres have absolutely no shot at the playoffs, so they might as well blow it up. If you get someone already MLB ready, you run the risk of them being expensive before the rest of their pieces are ready to compete.
Wow, seriously, it is a great trade, and the draft pick you are referring to would only be worth it if someone like the Royals signed Agon, what would you draft with the 25-27th overall pick? and the sandwich round between, would you get a guy that can hit 25 home runs? Because thats what they have in Rizzo, would you get a guy that has explosive secondary pitches and just needs to work on a faster fastball to get it to around 95 mph? because thats what they got in Kelly, and how about the cousin to Beltran who has incredible upside? this deal is awesome for San Diego and awesome for Boston.
wow, seriously… what would you draft w/ the 25- 27th pick? how about fuentes, or kelly, or ranaudo, or buchholz, or westmoreland, or reddick, or kalish, or anderson, or bowden, or rizzo who were all drafted lower than that. mcleod runs the padres drafts and he made all those picks for the sox (except ranaudo)… i’d rather have the picks + agon for next year if i’m sd.. bad trade for sd.
Wow, seriously, it is a great trade, and the draft pick you are referring to would only be worth it if someone like the Royals signed Agon, what would you draft with the 25-27th overall pick? and the sandwich round between, would you get a guy that can hit 25 home runs? Because thats what they have in Rizzo, would you get a guy that has explosive secondary pitches and just needs to work on a faster fastball to get it to around 95 mph? because thats what they got in Kelly, and how about the cousin to Beltran who has incredible upside? this deal is awesome for San Diego and awesome for Boston.
As a fan of a team with a similar player (Fielder), I’m sure hope the Brewers don’t settle for a deal like this.
I feel sorry for the Padre fans. None of those guys they are getting back are any more sure things than the guys they could draft with the two high picks they would have gotten had the let Gonzalez leave as a FA. Another deal that causes me to boycott baseball’s postseason on television because the game is rigged.
Of course he’s going to get Ryan Howard money. He’s a top first baseman and to his defense he hits for power AND average as opposed to Howard who has a hard time keeping his average up due to all his K’s. And… Gonzo plays much better defense than Howard. I expect that kind of money with another year or two.
His avg and obp are fine his slg dropping is the real concern.
His 2010 slugging percentage was the second highest of his career…
No it wasn’t what or who are you talking about?
2004: .381
2005: .407
2006: .500
2007: .502
2008: .510
2009: .551
2010: .511
Would you like me to put it in order, greatest to least too?
Umm did u not see what i was replying to someone mention howards avg was down last year and he was struggling to keep it up so i responded that his avg was fine it was his slugging that went down. You can act like a smartass if you want but it helps if you’re actually smart.
Sorry. You had me lost at Howards BA average being down. I didn’t realise that his .276 BA from his career .279 was dropping off. Thanks for clarifying that for me.
good thing i never said that, i said his slugging was down which it was
good thing i never said that, i said his slugging was down which it was
show me were i said he’s average was down.
And there’s my horrible reading comprehention, as you noted.
If my edit bottom was working properly this conversation would have been over a long time ago, i understood the confusion after obsession didnt let up. Which is why i asked him who he was referring to.
To be fair though, Howard’s .850 OPS is still good. He’ll never live up to that contract.
Now before I state something “over the edge of the world” again, I must get my Tim Hortons coffee so my brain may start functioning.
haha it’s really ok it happens. It is a good OPS.
You said that his SLG% last year wasn’t the second highest of his career and he showed you the actual number proving that it really was, how can you argue that?
because im talking about ryan howard that’s what i was replying to.
These are ryan howards slg % numbers from the last 5 years .564, .567, .659, .584, .543, .571, and this years .505. The person i intially replied to said howard was struggling to keep his avg up i disagreed with him and said it was slg% that slowed him down this year.
Gotcha, I mistakenly assumed you were talking about Gonzalez. My bad.
Based on how Manny people had the same assumption i have to admit it’s somewhat my fault for not copying his quote and not making it clearer.
These are ryan howards slg % numbers from the last 5 years .564, .567, .659, .584, .543, .571, and this years .505. The person i intially replied to said howard was struggling to keep his avg up i disagreed with him and said it was slg% that slowed him down this year.
Umm did u not see what i was replying to someone mention howards avg was down last year and he was struggling to keep it up so i responded that his avg was fine it was his slugging that went down. You can act like a smartass if you want but it helps if you’re actually smart.
I’m assuming you’re talking about Gonzalez as he’s the subject of the thread:
2004-.381
2005-.407
2006-.500
2007-.502
2008-.510
2009-.551
2010-.511
Per baseball-reference, yes, it was his second highest slugging percentage. He had a significant drop from 2009, but it’s right in line with his career numbers. If you’re talking about Howard, well, carry on.
I was replying to someone who mentioned howard i didnt bring it up out of the blue.
Got it, I misunderstood then. It was a bit ambiguous which one you were referring to as both were addressed in the previous entry.
Of course he’s going to get Ryan Howard money. He’s a top first baseman and to his defense he hits for power AND average as opposed to Howard who has a hard time keeping his average up due to all his K’s. And… Gonzo plays much better defense than Howard. I expect that kind of money with another year or two.
Pretty good trade for the Red Sox. It’s important to remember that there really wasn’t much competition for Gonzalez because of the need to sign him to a huge extension. The Padres also waited until he had only a year left on his current contract, so they weren’t going to get a full deal anyway.
Why is that important to remember?
1000th comment?!
who knows
glad agon will not be the giants killer anymore
Hey Theo if I Could Kiss you right now I think I would.
is it weird that I just busted my pants?
well since you asked, yes.
it’s hard to control myself when my favorite player is finally put in the spotlight and is given the chance to shine (which he’ll easily do) 😀
Sounds like a good deal…a great loss of young talents, yes. But also getting the long needed big power bat.
With this signing and with Ellsbury still around, wouldn’t it make more sense to go after Werth rather than Crawford now? Because:
1. With Crawford, the Sox would be an overload of lefties. And given the number of dominant lefties in the AL East, wouldn’t we want some additional good bats from the right?
2. Crawford would most likely require more years & more money. What if Crawford speed decline a bit? Then his value drops. Werth is more for power…and power is more sustainable.
3. With Ellsbury still around for this year, having Crawford would be like having two Ellsburys. And when Ellsbury reaches FA, then we can talk about locking him down (although that will be tough given that Boras is his agent). But for now, we need more power from the right side (only Youkilis right now…and Pedroia & power? not really).
Are all redsox fans delusional enough to think that Ellsbury is even close to Crawford?
if we’re talking speed? Ellsbury is better at stealing bases. But I think what Nomah was saying is that Crawford doesn’t fit the Sox as good as Werth does.
If it was 2009, players were nearly identical.
If it was 2010, Ellsbury played, was hurt, tried to come back, still hurt, tried to come back and the Sox shut him down. He had broken ribs and he will be fine now that they were left to heal. Crawford had a career year.
When both players are healthy their numbers are very close. Ellsbury also plays CF, Crawford LF.
I’ll take Ellsbury for a few mil over Crawford for $20M
ellsbury will never be a crawford. you sox fans need to get that straight.
wow! can you forward your number from the psychic hotline Allmighty Baseball Guru KB! U so smart!
Are all redsox fans delusional enough to think that Ellsbury is even close to Crawford?
I can’t believe Hoyer couldn’t get Iglesias and the padres need a SS in the worst way.
Yea I was sure Lowrie, Iglesias, or at the very least Navarro were going to be included in this.
Navarro could be the ptbnl
I thought the same thing but Navarro is on the 40-man roster and could be named now.
Off topic a little but when I was looking I noticed Rizzo doesn’t seem to be on the 40-man, at least what is posted on Redsox . com. Or am I missing something??
PTBNL could still be a guy like Jose Vinicio who is only 17 and looks to have potential, and is a SS.
PTBNL could still be a guy like Jose Vinicio who is only 17 and looks to have potential, and is a SS.
Yea I was sure Lowrie, Iglesias, or at the very least Navarro were going to be included in this.
Time to make your move cashman
He did. He resigned Jeter.
True. However, some experts, actually, bloggers, say the Yankees fans should be rejoicing because, Cashman will not allow Boston to have the “final say”. I, on the other hand, don’t think the Yankees will make any big trades.
If the Yankees sign Crawford (you never know, this could be like the whole Tex, CC & AJ show) they will probably trade Swisher. For what? maybe another arm or another arm in the pen.
I heard this on the radio today. If that were to happen what return would NY get for him?
Swisher is not a game changer like Crawford or even Werth. He is basically possesses solid plate discipline and below average defense. Based on that maybe a low end #3 Sper probably more like a #4. Maybe they would try to add a bullpen arm & a low level prospect instead.
He already did. Didn’t you see? He ran down the side of a building as an elf.
Haha, nice.
Haha.
He already did. Didn’t you see? He ran down the side of a building as an elf.
Personally I think he is too smart to be reactionary like that. I think he probably already has a plan for this offseason and will only deviate from that if it is in the best interest of the Yankees and not just because the Red Sox did something.
Time to make your move cashman
So the Sox lineup right now stands likeEllsburyDroiaYoukGonzoOrtizNancy DrewScutaroSal/TekCameronNot a bad lineup for the Sox.Congrats on the big trade, from your yankees fan.
Red Sox should have a higher team OBP and about the same team SLG with Beltre out and Gonzo in. It may only be a marginal upgrade, but if Beckett and Lackey can rebound, and severely upgrade their bullpen, they should have no problems making the playoffs again.
True, very true, I can see the Sox going to the ALCS if Beckett and Lackey live up to their AJ Burnout type contracts. I have a couple of questions though, two in general.
1. How do you think Gonzo will do, in terms of the “learning curve” of switching leagues.
2. Why would the Padres trade away their stars and contention pieces, when they were just one game out of the playoffs, and not get a shortstop in return?
3. What will the rotation look like for the Sox?
Sox Rotation
Lester
Beckett
Buchholz
Lackey
Dice-K
Gonzo will either:
A: be the player he was in the NL, or
B: be the next Pat Burrell
As for the Paddies trading their stars, it’s all money. As embarrassing as it may be, his $5mil 2011 contract was just too much for them, and wanted to cash in on his high value now. They also missed the playoffs by 1 game because of their insanely good pitching, something that’s very difficult to repeat.
Ouch, does Gonzo have a high strikeout rate? If so the Sox are in trouble, how is he in the clutch?
.400+ AVG w/RISP and two outs. So i’d say yes to the clutch question. He has excellent plate discipline. Usually averages high .300 OBP with low 100 SO’s.
Career 20.9% K rate, 19.3% in 2010. As for clutch, there really is no such thing. Let’s use Ichiro as an example. He’s good for 200 hits a year. If one year he got 120 of his 200 hits when men on base, it’s just happenstance. His RBI’s would go up, but not because of clutch, but the fact that his teammates were actually doing what they’re supposed to do – not create an out. [I hate using counting stats as a reference, but it seemed easier].
Answer to question 2;
The Paders will get 2/3 top prospects now. If they waited until the trading deadline they would get a lot less for him as a 2 month rent-a-player. The Pads are trying to make the best of a bad situation, they are not going to have Agon in 2012. Get the most from him while they can.
Lowrie will be starting at SS.
I thought Lowrie was not a part of this trade. Is he the player to be named later?
As a fan of the World Champion San Francisco Giants, I salute you, Red Sox nation. This was a great trade for Boston, and, well, just about erases any possibility that the Padres even sniff the playoffs again in the near future (especially with Bell likely on the move as well).
Well done Epstein!
well they werent supposed to sniff it this year either so who really knows what will happen.
As a fan of the World Champion San Francisco Giants, I salute you, Red Sox nation. This was a great trade for Boston, and, well, just about erases any possibility that the Padres even sniff the playoffs again in the near future (especially with Bell likely on the move as well).
Well done Epstein!
How does this trade help the 2011 Padres in anyway? Are they relying on Kyle Blanks to be the everyday 1b? Really? Might as well trade Bell now he will no longer be getting any save attempts! lol If we do trade bell can we get a guy that can start for us next year?
I cant believe we had a great season like that and now we are reducing our payroll and trading our #1 reason fans come to games. Petco was empty all year with a good team,
the seats are going to be cold all season in 2011.
no Rizzo can be their everyday first baseman (eventually).
Get ready for Jesus “the Butcher” Guzman. Guy can hit, but he was made for the DH.
I’m glad to see Adrian was moved (Giants fan), but Blanks still worries me a little. Saw him in the minors (Vegas) and he hit two of the longest HRs i’ve ever seen (seen post-balco Bonds hit a few). If he could figure things out, he could easily be an Adam Dunn type power guy (maybe a less Ks).
I know this is going to sound like a typical sour grapes statement, but I’m kinda glad the Red Sox sold Rizzo now instead of waiting. His left/right splits are a little disconcerting. But hey, regardless he’s still a good prospect who can smash righties and maybe with the right coaching will do the same to lefties.
Wow…that was really a fast about face on Rizzo. Careful. Whiplash is a mother. Only Hillary Clinton’s acceptance as a staff member for Obama was quicker. “He will suck. He knows nothing. But I will be glad to work for him”.
Dude, I’ve been saying trade Rizzo for 2 years and been citing his left/right splits the whole time. Also I know English isn’t my first language but I’m not sure when I said “he will suck.” Wait… English is my first language and I said “he’s still a good prospect” and “can smash righties.”
I normally respect your comments but you never before put words in my mouth.
Ummmm…i didn’t say you said “he will suck”. Maybe I should leave humor out of future posts. Read it again.
actually you did lol
Looks like he was putting words into Hillary Clintons mouth, not the poster.
Hey if Bill can’t put anything in her mouth, YanksFanSince78 shouldn’t be allowed to either!
I heard she bites. But yeah, the quote was meant for Hillary. Sorry for any confusion. I thought the “But I would be glad to work for him” was obvious.
I agree it’s a good move. Gonzo is a know commodity, Rizzo has potential, but with any prospect, he may not pan out. I would have liked to see what he would bring to Fenway.
This was a good trade for both teams. The Padres got three top 10 prospects in Kelly, Rizzo, and Fuentes. The Sox got their man, let’s see how much he will cost, I’m guessing more than the Howard contract.
I disagree. They aren’t proven players. Agon is. Awful trade for the Padres, especially since they were so close last year. Who is their leader now?
Considering the clock is ticking on the Padres and they wouldn’t resign Gonzo, it is a good deal. Kelly will pitch in 2011, and Rizzo/Fuentes have great potential. If SD waited to the deadline, it would have been Kelly and a couple lower prospects. Bold move for both sides IMO.
Am I missing something or is Rizzo really not on the Red Sox 40-man Roster?
Thank you Theo!! Now work out the deal for Upton or go for Werth because you don’t want to overload with another lefty like Crawford. Martin for a reserve might be good too unless you have someone else up your sleeve. Don’t forget the pen!!! Nice job Theo!!!!
Considering the asking price on Upton was the Moon, the Sox probably don’t have the pieces to get Upton. Kelly would have been a big piece.
If they start with ML pieces (i.e. Ellsbury and Bard) then add say Doubrant, Briton, Pimental, and Lavarnaway (or something to that extent) they could at least pique interest.
Agreed. If they were to now try to obtain Upton, they’d have to start taking pieces off their 40-man such as Kalish and Lowrie.
Red Sox really need to focus on their bullpen after this trade is done.
Sign Downs and not anymore Type A FA so we can get a first. You’ll have 2 extra first to work with anyways.
I like it when you talk dirty haha. They can trade for Frasor too while they’re at it.
this is a great trade for the red sox. no iglesias/lowrie/bard/ellsbury. i thought hoyer would want one of our shortstops.
The People saying the Padres didn’t get enough don’t get it. You people are head in the sand, narrow-minded types without any scope or ability to view the bigger picture. The Friars got two highly touted former 1st round picks who cost over FOUR million dollars in signing bonuses. If I’m not mistaken, these two guys step right in as #1 & #3 on San Diego’s depth chart (arguably interchangeable with Tate). For a financially challenged team like the Padres they need the high upside cost controlled players they received, and they needed another team to have already covered those bonuses. If San Diego just waited to recoup the draft picks you can certainly bet Hoyer wouldn’t have had clearance to drop 4 mil on the compensation picks, on top of SD’s own 1st in that 2012 draft. Also take into consideration that Hoyer has #10 & #26 and three other supplemental 1sts in this 2011 draft so the 6+mil savings on A-Gon should give Towers the financial flexibility to spend on some serious talent in this deep draft. Hoyer will have completely turned around San Diego’s farm system in less than two years. Kudos to him.
No one is saying they shouldnt have traded and AGon and just took the picks. They are saying a AA pitcher with an ERA over 5, a AA 1B with a OBP under .340, and a A OFer with a BA of .270 was not enough in the way of prospects. This #1, #3, and #6 ranking business was before these poor seasons last year. No way they keep those rankings. The fact they didnt get Kalish or Lowrie is criminal.
..former 1st round picks who cost over FOUR million dollars in signing bonuses.
Where a player is drafted, or how much their bonus was doesn’t mean anything. All that matters is ceiling and numbers.
Kelly had a horrible 2010 year considering his hype. At this point, I’d say Rizzo is the better prospect with them both in AA and he still OPSing over .800.
Well, to Kellys defense, it was his first full season as a pitcher in pro ball. He has much room for improvement and I’m sure he will be something more than a bust. As for Rizzo, he looks good. Best of luck to these guys. Took a hit out of our deep farm.
Three years from now we will know — and I don’t think the Padres fans will be happy.
For all the people saying that the Padres got ripped off in this deal, let me ask you, if this was the best deal they were offered (which I am assuming it was, because Hoyer taking a lesser deal because he is Theo’s buddy is just laughable) then does it matter that it is below value for A-Gon? They knew they had to trade him, they had other holes to fill and his 6 mil will be spent elsewhere. I am not trying to make the argument that trading A-Gon is good for the Padres, it clearly is not, but if they had to move him, which they did, because they would have gotten much less at the deadline for only two months of him (he also would have been less likely to sign an extension because he was so close to FA) and this was the only deal out there, didn’t they have to take it?
I love seeing Yanks fans complaining how the Sox always get good players for garbage
No, Yankee fans are just taking a page out of the Red Sox play book. Like the Yanks buy all of the best players or trade with teams that cannot afford to keep their best players. The Yankees over hype their farm prospects to fleece the best talent from other teams. The Yankees buy the best players…oh wait I already said that. I guess the playbook of rants for Pink Cap nation is pretty small….
if the sox did sign werth and downs, would they lose their pick at 19 for det signing victor and whatever pick they net for beltre?
or would the sox lose the 24th or whatever they finished with for signing one and then their second rder for signing the other
They would lose their first rounder to the Phillies for Werth, not the number 19 that they picked up for V-MArt, then they would surrender their own second rounder to the Blue Jays for Downs. They would end up with 19 overall, and whatever pick the team signing Beltre has (of course providing that the signing team did not also sign a higher ranked Type A FA).
thanks, that question had been bothering me. this works out great for the sox that det signed victor as long as they dont sign anyone higher on the type A list.
his offense and beltres offense will be missed.
i would think they should still pursue beltre as an expensive insurance policy in the cases that youks thumb and gonzos shoulder are not ready for the start of the season
I’m not opposed to bringing back Beltre either, but it wouldn’t be as an insurance policy, he would be their 3rd baseman. This would likely move Youk out to LF, which would be a real adventure on the road as we saw last year when he was out there because of injuries. I gotta say I still have mixed thoughts on letting V-Mart walk, the pick is nice, but then again I salivate at the thought of having him in the same lineup as A-Gon, Youk, and Papi, that would have been 4 ridiculous hitters in a row the Sox could have trotted out there. I think I would have signed him for the 12.5 mil a year and then let him DH after next season when Papi is no longer with us. I am ok if the Sox let Beltre walk and take the picks, don’t get me wrong he was spectacular, but anyone who gives him 60 million and expects the same production when he is out of Fenway Park needs to have their head examined.
I’m not opposed to bringing back Beltre either, but it wouldn’t be as an insurance policy, he would be their 3rd baseman. This would likely move Youk out to LF, which would be a real adventure on the road as we saw last year when he was out there because of injuries. I gotta say I still have mixed thoughts on letting V-Mart walk, the pick is nice, but then again I salivate at the thought of having him in the same lineup as A-Gon, Youk, and Papi, that would have been 4 ridiculous hitters in a row the Sox could have trotted out there. I think I would have signed him for the 12.5 mil a year and then let him DH after next season when Papi is no longer with us. I am ok if the Sox let Beltre walk and take the picks, don’t get me wrong he was spectacular, but anyone who gives him 60 million and expects the same production when he is out of Fenway Park needs to have their head examined.
Delete
wts the deal ?
Really surprised by this trade. Not that it happened, but how little the Padres got. Kelly is a good start but they needed an elite position prospect. Is Rizzo really that player? A 1b? They needed at least Iglesias or Kalish. Funetes looks like nothing special despite his age. Really this will have to be judged by the development of Kelly and whomever the player to be named is. Really disappointing day for Padres fans. Great day though to be a Sox fan.
Fuentes is actually a little safer. His speed will be a big factor in the immense Padre’s outfield and fangraphs puts him at #4 on the Padre’s top 10 prospects ahead of Tate. Actually fangraphs updated their top 10 prospects for San Diego and has Kelly at #1, Rizzo at #3, and Fuentes at #4. Not a bad haul to add 3 top 10 prospects to your farm.
Hard to say at such an early stage of his career but Fuentes looks like he has the potential to be Ellsbury with better defense.
i like fuentes potential, i hope he thrives in SD
This trade does nothing now for the Padres this year except create another hole and reduce payroll. The return the Padres got, although devoid of ready now players, is OK. Boston should be happy with this trade. As for the Padres, only time will tell. As for all the posters on here upset about the minor league numbers of kelly/rizzo/fuentes… all are fairly young for the level they were playing at…. if they were in the padres system last year they would be in lower levels and likely produced better numbers. Fair trade but not great for the Padres.
hmm, this guy coul hit around 55 homers in fenway!!!!!, i guess……
if you say so.
u doubt it??
if you say so.
If the Sox do sign Carl Crawford, i would envision a trade of Jacoby Ellsbury forthcoming. maybe for relief help if they cant land a quality reliever on the market.
but i would think that an oufield of Jacoby and Crawford and eventually Kalish, no matter how LEFTHANDED they would be, would be very fun to watch and not many singles would turn to doubles, doubles to triples and tweeners would turn into outs.
they have the balance in the infield and DH after this season, 2b, SS and 3b and C are all RH if you count salty/varitek switch hitting, and they can purse a DH or 3b next season if/when ortiz leaves and youk could shift there.
Who plays OF next year?2011Crawford/Werth, Ellsbury, Drew – back ups Cameron and Kalish/McDonald 2012Crawford/Werth, Ellsbury, Kalish – back ups McDonald and ReddickSox could actually sign both Crawford and Werth and not be in bad shape. If everyone stays healthy each of Crawford, Werth, Ellsbury, Drew and Ortiz could get 130 starts. Most likely someone will get hurt. I’m not saying this is what the Sox should do, just pointing out signing an OF doesn’t make Ellsbury expendable.
i wasnt referring to just any of but crawford being a lefty i felt it may have. i agree that it doesnt need to happen
i agree that someone will get hurt, drews knee/shoulder/back/neck/vagina… ellsburys ribs? youk and his thumb
its really wouldnt hurt to bring beltre back if they somehow managed to miss out on crawford and werth and beltre was still out there… YOUK did play some OF in a pinch for them over the years. not the best scenario but still would be a nice lineup
just a pipe dream
if they miss out on both FA OFs then they will most certainly acquire one via trade.
BRIDGE YEAR MY A$$
Who plays OF next year?2011Crawford/Werth, Ellsbury, Drew – back ups Cameron and Kalish/McDonald 2012Crawford/Werth, Ellsbury, Kalish – back ups McDonald and ReddickSox could actually sign both Crawford and Werth and not be in bad shape. If everyone stays healthy each of Crawford, Werth, Ellsbury, Drew and Ortiz could get 130 starts. Most likely someone will get hurt. I’m not saying this is what the Sox should do, just pointing out signing an OF doesn’t make Ellsbury expendable.
If the Sox do sign Carl Crawford, i would envision a trade of Jacoby Ellsbury forthcoming. maybe for relief help if they cant land a quality reliever on the market.
but i would think that an oufield of Jacoby and Crawford and eventually Kalish, no matter how LEFTHANDED they would be, would be very fun to watch and not many singles would turn to doubles, doubles to triples and tweeners would turn into outs.
they have the balance in the infield and DH after this season, 2b, SS and 3b and C are all RH if you count salty/varitek switch hitting, and they can purse a DH or 3b next season if/when ortiz leaves and youk could shift there.
The Red Sox payroll current sits around $135M. They would probably be willing to spend another $40M for the right people.
Starting Pitching = $50.5M
Lester, Buchholz, Beckett, Lackey, Matsuzaka, Wakefield
Relief Pitching = $14M
Papelbon, Bard, Doubront, Atchison, Bowden, Pimental
Starting Lineup = $66.5M
Saltalamachia, Gonzalez, Pedroia, Scutaro, Youkilis, Cameron, Ellsbury, Drew, Ortiz
Bench = $4M
Varitek, Lowrie, Kalish, McDonald, Anderson
I think the Sox should sign Werth (16), Downs (6), Wiggington (6), Rauch (4), Wheeler (3).
This puts Sox around $170M.
Wouldn’t mind seeing Sox unload Papelbon and Scutaro and replacing them with Iglesias and Soriano.
This would get the Sox around $168 because they would have to also give up $4-5M with Papelbon.
There are still a lot of moves to be made by the Sox just to fill out the roster, should continue to be an exciting winter.
Iglesius isn’t near ready for the bigs. I have trouble seeing him hit even just .200 in the majors at this point.
‘Iglesias’ is pretty damn close to being ready, I don’t know what you are talking about. I have trouble figuring out where you are drawing your conclusions aside from the ever popular “gut feeling”.
1. He hasn’t batted above AA
2. He has little present power (.072 ISO in AA) to go with no patience (3.4% BB% in AA)
3. His average was held up by a high BABIP in AA (.360)
That’s why.
True, however he is more than ready to come up and be one of the top defenders at SS right now.
Iglesius isn’t near ready for the bigs. I have trouble seeing him hit even just .200 in the majors at this point.
kalish wont rot on the bench.
he’ll start in AAA, as will lars and stolmy
I agree. We just dont have 4th and 5th OFers right now. Above is our roster as it stands right now. McDonald will get the 5th spot if we sign Werth.
Nava and McDonald might be the 4th/5th outfielders. Both guys who don’t have starting roles in their future, and who can contribute. Not the best group, but Kalish needs to be in AAA. He’s gotta get ready for next year, when Drew leaves. 🙂
Nava and McDonald might be the 4th/5th outfielders. Both guys who don’t have starting roles in their future, and who can contribute. Not the best group, but Kalish needs to be in AAA. He’s gotta get ready for next year, when Drew leaves. 🙂
I agree. We just dont have 4th and 5th OFers right now. Above is our roster as it stands right now. McDonald will get the 5th spot if we sign Werth.
Not a huge fan of Rauch or Wheeler, although I think one of them would be okay. For the bullpen, I just want to see Downs signed plus one of the guys ala Rauch or Wheeler, and then do Epstein’s thing with mini-trades and low-risk/moderate-upside guys. Too hard to really know what to expect from every free-agent reliever, so I don’t want them to spend a lot there past Downs, and just accumulate a lot of options. Risky, sure, but its the bullpen. It’s always really risky, because relievers can be so volatile.
And the Sox really need Werth. Great addition to this lineup now, with Gonzalez in there.
I agree, this winter is going to extremely fun to follow. Boston finally got its ball rolling with Gonzalez, which is already making the next steps (Werth, Downs) clearer. And as their shroud of mystery begins to disappear, I expect moves to start flying fast and furious as Epstein tries to minimize any sort of bidding wars.
I think they pick up Guerrier, and Downs
I like it.
I like it.
I think they pick up Guerrier, and Downs
Still not a fan of Werth. His defense has dropped for two years in a row and that reminds me too much of Jason Bay.
Not a huge fan wither but the Sox need to sign Werth or Crawford or make a trade fr a starting OFer.
Wouldn’t mind trading for Bay. Are the Mets regretting the deal yet, willing to give him away, maybe throw in some $?
He’s much faster than Bay, and his swing is made for Fenway. Plus the Sox need another right hand hitter to face Lee, Sabathia,and Pettite; not to mention Price and Romero.
Matusz too
He’s much faster than Bay, and his swing is made for Fenway. Plus the Sox need another right hand hitter to face Lee, Sabathia,and Pettite; not to mention Price and Romero.
This now signals the AL East back to the two-headed monster that is the Yankees and Red Sox. Rays now have no chance at the division crown
Yanks haven’t done anything yet this year. Wait until you -actually- get Lee before making these claims.
Yanks haven’t done anything yet this year. Wait until you -actually- get Lee before making these claims.
Call me crazy but I dont think the Yankees will make the playoffs next year unless they sign lee. The Blue Jays are getting better and could give either team a run for their money and the rays are going to be good as well. The blue jays had a winning record against every team in the east last year except the red sox, watch out for them
Okay…you’re crazy.. The Rays are losing Pena and Crawford and Soriano and Beniot along with other key players to their team. They wont be nearly as good as last year. The blue jays are a couple players away…they will lose a lot of their bullpen and are in desperate need of another bat in their line up. The Red Sox win the divison (expecially if they go out and sign CC/Werth) and they you also have to take into account the fact that the Angels are going to be better next year with Morales coming back, texas will be good again (although will struggle with pitching if they lose Lee)..the A’s will be good next year if they sign Beltre.. The tigers/whitesox/twins…all good teams in the central… Right now..If I had to call it..
Red Sox – East
White Sox – Central
Angels – West
Yankees -Wild Card
The Yankees will be extremely competitive next year if they sign Lee. I still think the Jays are a few players away..It’s a two horse race in the AL East.
The redsox have to fix their bullpen and it’s not like their rotation dominated last year.
Their pitching staff’s FIP was better then both the Ray’s and Yankee’s last year. They just had 2 extremely unlucky years from Beckett and Lackey.
Yeah…unlucky in the sense that it was unlucky they didn’t push the Fenway OF walls back about 20 feet.
I’d say a .349 BABIP for Beckett and .323 for Lackey is unlucky. But it is really unlucky in Beckett’s case.
i expect them both to be a lot better next year. yankees fans should take a look at their own pitching staff before ridiculing ours. burnett? HA
Hey schmuch nobody is ridiculing, it’s just a discussion. We each have issues.
nobody cares about what biased yankees fans think
Lay off. YFS78 is one of the least bias Yankees fan on this site.
nobody cares about what biased yankees fans think
BaBIP factors in batted balls in play or how well the defense turned “fieldable” balls into outs. A HR isn’t fieldable and the equations subtracts Hits – HR. The problem w/ Beckett wasn’t his “luck” on singles, dbls and triples. It was a much higher BB/9 rate (2.33 to 3.17), a lowered KO/BB rate (3.62 to 2.58) and a ridiculously high HR/9 rate of 1.41 up from 1.06.
In addition, his FB velocity drooped for the 4th straight year (2007 @ 94.7 to 93.5 in 2010). He’s also using a lot of his offspeed stuff more often. He threw the cutter 15% of the time compared to 5% in 2009. He also threw the CH moreand FB and Curve less.
I realize this. But you’d figure Beckett whose FB% only went up a bit (3.6%) from ’09 was also getting unlucky on homeruns. It could be similar to in ’06 when he had the same average speed on his FB as ’10 and a higher HR/9. That coupled with the fact there were a ton of base runners because of all the singles, doubles, triples, and (most importantly) walks and you can see why he had an inflated ERA. The walks could certainly just be the fact he was never really settled into the season or sample size or maybe a change in mentality as you pointed out by him throwing more offspeed stuff. But his overall peripherals remained constant and I’m leaning more towards 2010 being a statistical fluke for Beckett.
I mean even the plate discipline stats make no sense for a guy with a terrible season. His O-Swing% actually went up (which would make you assume more strikeouts), his Z-Swing% remained in pretty constant as did his overall swing%. So it isn’t like hitters were laying off his stuff better and working walks. What was off with contact was the fact hitters had a higher O-Contact% (7.2% higher) yet the rest of his contact rates remained constant as did his swinging strike%. The jump in O-Contact% seems like another flukish thing to me that points towards a better 2011. I’m not predicting another 2007 season but he can match his 09 season and that’s all the Red Sox need.
I’d say a .349 BABIP for Beckett and .323 for Lackey is unlucky. But it is really unlucky in Beckett’s case.
Call me crazy but I dont think the Yankees will make the playoffs next year unless they sign lee. The Blue Jays are getting better and could give either team a run for their money and the rays are going to be good as well. The blue jays had a winning record against every team in the east last year except the red sox, watch out for them
Rays will still be in the race with their pitching; they do need to make some key moves with their bull pen and 1b-DH.
Their bullpen lost 270 something innings with an ERA under 3. They’re going to need a lot of bullpen moves.
Their bullpen lost 270 something innings with an ERA under 3. They’re going to need a lot of bullpen moves.
This now signals the AL East back to the two-headed monster that is the Yankees and Red Sox. Rays now have no chance at the division crown
this has to be the most comments ever? 1214 and couting
The Roy Halladay trade forum had nearly double.
The Roy Halladay trade forum had nearly double.
this sucks b@lls.
well said….
Just kidding. Go away. Now.
I don’t think the Red Sox go out an sign a big name OF now that they acquired A-Gonz and are likely to be paying him 25MM a season. I think they are fine with Ellsbury, Cameron, and JD Drew for this year, and then once JD and Big Papi’s contracts expire, they spend some money next offseason. Their offense was amazing this year, despite a ton of injuries. A-Gonz could outperform Beltre next year after all, now that he is in a hitter’s park with a great lineup around him. The Sox should wait it out before signing anybody else, and see where they are at the trade deadline next season. If JD or Big Papi gets hurt midseason, perhaps they make a splash then. But as for now, they should sit tight. This already is a pretty amazing acquisition