Both the Angels (86 vs. 80) and Dodgers (81 vs. 80) have already improved on last year's win totals with one game to play. Here's a look back at a couple moves that shaped the Angels' season and a look ahead to the Dodgers' offseason…
- Adrian Beltre, who lives 30 minutes from Angel Stadium, begged the Angels to sign him last offseason, according to Peter Gammons of MLB Network (on Twitter). Instead, he signed a five-year deal with the AL West Champion Rangers and has a .296/.332/.563 line with 32 home runs. It won't be surprising if the Angels are on the lookout for third base help this offseason.
- Mike DiGiovanna of the LA Times explains that there's reason to consider the Vernon Wells–Mike Napoli trade one of the worst deals in Angels history. Wells is expensive and has struggled offensively, Napoli has had the best offensive season of his career and the Angels finished second to the Rangers. Manager Mike Scioscia says we should give the deal some time before calling it a poor one for Los Angeles.
- Dodgers GM Ned Colletti told Dylan Hernandez of the LA Times that he understands Los Angeles is a star-driven city and will consider the best players out there this winter, even if they cost $100MM or more. Still, Colletti says he's "very conscious" of the Dodgers' drop in attendance.
I wish they would of signed Beltre and kept Napoli.. We would be going to the playoffs insted of the Rangers. Another FAIL by the Angels FO.. Can’t wait to see what they DON’T do this offseason.. I think the Angels have realized they can’t compete with the big boys so they’ll just stay a 500 team 2nd place hoping for a miracle season
Except that they are not a .500 team.
true. But they are 9GB of 1’st, which is almost the same thing.. haha
Nope. No its not. Your statement is illogical and you should be ashamed of yourself.
Napoli and Beltre wouldn’t have been enough to allow the Angels to beat the Rangers and you know it.
You are mad. (crazy)
LMFAO incorrect! When the Angels have 30HR 100RBI 300AVG players on this team (with our SP) we are the ontop in the West, too bad Arte stuck his foot in his mouth
Stats aside, he is stating that Mike Napoli and Adrien Beltre contributed in no way.
I mean just going by WAR, it would be pretty close. I’ll do a quick comparison:
Beltre had 6.0, subtract that by Callaspo’s 3.4 and you get a 2.6 WAR increase.
At catcher Napoli had 5.5 WAR while Angels catchers combined for -0.9 WAR. That would have been a 6.4 WAR increase. Though Napoli did play a lot of first base which would have taken away playing time from Trumbo. Also in the past Napoli shared a lot of time with Jeff Mathis. In other words a 6.4 WAR increase is probably pushing it, I’ll say 5.0 WAR is a fair number to go with.
Then we have Vernon Wells, who wouldn’t have been on the team if Napoli wasn’t dealt. But lets assume the Angels would have played a league average outfielder there instead of Wells. Wells added 0.3 WAR to the the Angels. A league average outfielder would add roughly 2 wins, a 1.7 increase.
So overall: 2.6 WAR+ 5.0 WAR+ 1.7= 9.3 WAR. That would roughly put the Angels into a tie with the Rangers first place. Of course you would have to remove wins from the Rangers for not having Beltre or Napoli. Most likely, the Angels would have won the division with those two.
And that would’ve gotten them the Wild card.
Mike Napoli caught 29 games this year
did you know that? are you assuming he would have hit the same way if he had caught 100? (not saying trading for VW under any circumstance other than salary swap was anything less than a bad idea)
i did, that is why I docked him 1.4 WAR.
“He understands Los Angeles is a star-driven city and will consider the
best players out there this winter, even if they cost $100MM or more.”
That may be the worst reasoning I have ever heard in my life.
Not to say that he’s wrong, though? He’s simply saying that big names draw big crowds, especially in LA. Go ahead, try to tell us there’s nothing to it.
If you sign players to try to draw a crowd then you are doing baseball wrong. I’ll bet the Dodgers would rather win the regular season than win the off-season.
Logically, yes. But also – winning in the regular season tends to draw crowds. It’s cyclical.
thats true, but if you sign the right guy to the right contract, you get the big crowds and the winning, right?
Or you grow the players yourself, ala Kershaw.
Or you mix and match like every other successful franchise.
Like the Dodgers?
like The Yankees. no matter how much people love Derek Jeter, he’s not all that exciting to watch. Yankee fans are there to see A-Rod & Tex (or Sheffield or Giambi or Boggs etc.) there to slug homeruns. also those guys make their teams really good, even if the Yankees already had some great homegrown players.
Like the Dodgers and Yankees are even comparable. They have zero financial constraints.
But thats why the Dodgers are not in the playoffs and the Yankees are a good bet to go to the world series. The Dodgers do not have the star power to back Kemp and Kershaw. They have a few good pieces, Billingsley, Kuroda, the young bullpen. But the offense, especially with Andre hurt, was CRAP, other than Kemp. Gordon looks exciting, as does Sands, but the Dodgers will need another bat to compliment Kemp and Andre in the lineup. They have done a tremendous job at growing pitchers, Kershaw and Billz, and have gone to FA to get others (Kuroda and Lilly). If Kuroda returns, their rotation is more or less set. If they want to compete though, they need offense. Simple as that. And because we don’t have Trout or Harper in AAA, they need to get it from the outside.
No team can successfully grow a whole contender. It will take too long and be impossible to have 10 prospects come up together who are all stars. It just wont happen. You can grow the Kershaws and Kemps, but you also need to add the other pitchers or other hitters. They proved this year that two guys can only do so much.
Not sure what you mean. If the Dodgers signed a Pujols or a Fielder, people would come to see them play — for a reason. They are big stars and the team automatically becomes more exciting to watch. Just like they came to see Manny play.
I don’t think that $100 Million dollar contracts are ever good for a team, short of the NYY or Red Sox. I think that teams are better off spreading that money around on the bottom levels of the team, ie the draft.
I wouldn’t say the Manny experience was good the Dodgers long term. I think they need homegrown Longorias, not overpriced middle aged men.
But I also am an Angels fan so the jokes on me.
The joke’s on all of us this season, so join the party. I don’t worry about the big numbers too much but I don’t like to see contracts longer than 4-5 years for any player. Easy to say now that Manny wasn’t good for the Dodgers but he lit up the team for the better part of a year and we had two NLDS wins.
“Homegrown Longorias”… really? Teams just need some “homegrown Longorias”? Well, while we’re at it, throw in some “homegrown Pujols” and some “homegrown Roy Halladays” and maybe, just to put you over the top, some “homegrown Tulowitzkis”…
See, you act like it can’t happen, but it does.
you realize though the Dodgers have their homegrown Longoria and their homegrown Halladay. They need their complement Lee, Pence, and Howard in order to compete though…
Sure, augment, but not to the point you mortgage your future with 6 and 7 year contracts.
big names draw big crowds EVERYWHERE. there is not a single sports team in America that draws well and doesn’t have big names.
20 bucks says they sign a-ram for way more than he is worth. and then still dont make the playoffs
Alberto Callaspo is almost as good as Aramis. That would be a signing the Halos would regret for a long time
I agree. We have enough oldies on this team. I’m going to scream this name until he signs with Texas or SF PRINCE FIELDER 6-7 172-180 22mil each year until Vernon is gone then raise it a little. Or take money out of Vernon Wells contract to help sign Fielder. Anaheim needs a star like him and I don’t think Morales will carry us on his back with that bummed ankle and nobody gives two craps about Vernon Wells
Why don’t you guys trade Morales to Toronto so we can pick him up for scraps too. Morales could give us a three-peat of former Angels going to Texas and tearing LAA a new one.
No he is not. Where on earth are you getting this idea?
Slugging is literally the only aspect of his game that is better than Callaspo. Aramis’ deficiency on defense gives up that advantage completely.
Many would say beltre is signed to more than he is worth also, that is more years than he will produce and i am one of his biggest backers.
At the moment there are no more than 3-4 3B that have his combo of power and glove at the corner and none have his cannon for an arm.
The hell with Adrian Beltre, we got Vernon Wells!
(Facepalm) I know you’re joking but still.. Too soon haha
I guess Sciosca is ignoring all the home runs raining down in his stadium in this last series with the Rangers.
Just more evidence showing that Tony Reggains is a terrible GM.
Gonna hope Scioscia is just avoiding insulting the guys who write his paychecks (even if they deserve it) and doesn’t actually believe that. But from what I’ve heard people say about him…
Even if the Dodgers do sign a $100 mil player. It will do little for attendence if McCourt is still at the helm.
I for one would continue to hold out going to games. San Diego and San Francisco can have my money…
I was about to say I totally agree with you, but on thinking about it, I don’t think I can. Sure a lot of fans will stay away so long as the McCourts are around, but you can bet a lot of otherwise disgruntled fans will step up for tickets if the Dodgers sign a big name this winter and look like they can be more competitive. I’m kind of in that position myself, waiting for some direction to emerge before forking over. I’d hate to give McCourt another nickel of my money but then again I don’t want to lose my share of a season ticket if the team could be worth watching.
Fair enough. I can definetly understand that. Actually, I did go to a decent amount of games this year. But not out of pocket. Sure i’ll go to games that I’m given tickets to but to buy a beer (and I drink a lot of beer) or any other concession, I did not. I even walked the 1/2 mile to the stadium not to pay the $15 parking that goes into McDouche’s pocket.
We bring sandwiches and bottled water and share one beer between us. I feel sorry for the vendors who are clearly hurting, but I figure it’s that or not go to the games.
Disagree. Coming into next year with a fresh start, a freshly named Cy Young winner, a freshly named MVP, a great rookie class coming back, and a superstar in the middle of that lineup and I think attendance goes up. as long as they start strong and keep winning, people will go to games.
Fresh start? How can you have a fresh start with the same lame duck owner?
Secondly, the fans didnt stop attending because of the teams performance. They stopped due to the ownership situation.
On the same note however, if we start off well next season, I can see the attendance going up somewhat but not back to leading the majors in attendance.
Here’s to Cy Young Kershaw and (hopefully) MVP Kemp.
THIS
That?
Oh yeah
You can get with this, or you can get with that.
-Blacksheep
Beltre begged the Angels to sign him? If being that close to home was that important to him, why didn’t he just sign.
Exactly… From what I understand, the Angels had a 5-year/70 mil offer on the table for a while… on one hand, you have to wonder why the Angels didn’t throw in the 6th year option like Texas did, but if Beltre was to the point of begging… Maybe he was begging the Angels to please pay him more than what the Rangers offered because he wanted to quadruple the size of his house instead of just tripling it. Who knows? Done deal, too late now…
Hmmmmmm… let me think…. it probably had something to do with the additional 26 million dollars that the Rangers offered… MOVING DAY!
I don’t see why the Angels can’t just sign Adrian Beltre THIS offseason. I know it says he signed a five year contract last year, but surely that can’t be true. Last year I’m pretty sure I was told by many people that Beltre ONLY has good years in contract years, and it looks like he had a pretty good year (third highest WAR of his career, anyway.) So logically he must have been in a contract year, and will be a free agent this year. So the Angels can sign him no problem.
Dude….what are you smoking?
This past offseason was mindbogglingly bad for the Angels. Not because they didn’t sign Carl Crawford (turns out to be a blessing in disguise, actually)…not JUST because of not signing Beltre and letting him go to Texas (although that hurts)…and not even JUST because of acquiring Vernon Wells, despite his subpar performance and big contract… No, what threw the offseason over the edge was trading away Mike Napoli… This made no sense to me.
What the Angels should have done, after they didn’t add a big bat through free agency, is made Napoli the full-time DH (which he once even said he didn’t mind doing), and leaving Abreu in LF, until the eventual call-up of Mike Trout. Offensively, the Angels would have been a little stronger, the Rangers would have been a little weaker….and even if this wasn’t enough to give the Angels the AL West title, I seriously doubt they would have finished any worse. Not to mention, by not taking on Vernon’s contract, they’d have absolutely gobs of money to possibly throw at Fielder or Pujols or CJ Wilson this offseason… Ah, well… live and learn, right?
Dodgers are 81-79 heading into tonights season finale. They won’t make-up a Nationals rainout. Sad only for Matt Kemp.
i don’t think anyone won the trade. the trade was vernon wells for mike napoli and juan rivera, rivera was traded to the dodgers and mike napoli was traded for frank francisco. people forget that the trade was not to the rangers, so the point that he was traded to the rangers is irrevelant. one could make a case that the angels won that trade because it allowed for trumbo, trout, and conger (mainly trumbo).
Rangers came out with the best results from that group of trades. So I’d say they won.
Rangers came out with the best results from that group of trades. So I’d say they won.
The trade really had no impact on Trout and Conger. And Conger stuggled so it really didnt help him at all. Even if Napoli stayed with the Jays, he would have put up pretty good numbers (Rogers center is a hitters park, not as much as Arlington but still). The fact is that the Angels are Paying Wells a TON of money for very little production. It also puts them in a financial choke hold for the next few years an probably won’t allow them to sign any big free agents this year. As was posted by another person above, if Wells wasn’t here, i honestly think the Angels would have signed Fielder and been in the running for CJ.
As far as Beltre goes, i was pretty disappointed when the Angels didn’t sign him. He has been very productive and would have created tremendous stability. Hopefully something comes along soon that will fix the 3b hole.
The trade really had no impact on Trout and Conger. And Conger stuggled so it really didnt help him at all. Even if Napoli stayed with the Jays, he would have put up pretty good numbers (Rogers center is a hitters park, not as much as Arlington but still). The fact is that the Angels are Paying Wells a TON of money for very little production. It also puts them in a financial choke hold for the next few years an probably won’t allow them to sign any big free agents this year. As was posted by another person above, if Wells wasn’t here, i honestly think the Angels would have signed Fielder and been in the running for CJ.
As far as Beltre goes, i was pretty disappointed when the Angels didn’t sign him. He has been very productive and would have created tremendous stability. Hopefully something comes along soon that will fix the 3b hole.
We here in Seattle know just the guy to replace the Angels void at 3rd base left when Figgins left a couple years ago…
We here in Seattle know just the guy to replace the Angels void at 3rd base left when Figgins left a couple years ago…
Great move by the Jays although we should have kept Napoli
Jays didnt really need a cacther. it seemed like a smart move to get a bullpen guy. he struggled, but Fransisco did well in the seocnd half. im happy with Arencibia though
Great move by the Jays although we should have kept Napoli
i dont like Reagins, but he has made some good moves. Getting Dan Haren. Trading for Teixeira. And Losing Teixeira and getting Mike Trout as compensation. So its not all bad. But he has made some horrendous moves. Wells And Kazmir really stand out. Also, there is a good chance that he doesnt even get Kazmir or haren if Nick Adenhart hadnt passed.
IMO, Reagins’ bad moves far outweigh his good ones. I have already decided that I’m not renewing my season tickets next year, and the only thing that would change my mind is if Reagins and Mickey Hatcher are not brought back. I’ll still go to games, just not $10,000 worth.
Hopefully Napoli hitting 4 bombs in the last 2 games of the year against the Angels will light a fire under ownership to fire Reagins. Or if he is brought back it will make him think about what he’s doing and light his fire to make a good deal or two
Maybe the Dodgers could sign a $100M free agent, but there’s no way that MLB will let them go after Pujols or Fielder.
why not?
disagree, the one thing they should want is the Dodgers spending so the next owner immediately comes to a contender.