Four of the AL East's teams are in offseason mode, while the Yankees prepare for the deciding ALDS game five against the Tigers tomorrow. Non-Red Sox links from the division:
- B.J. Upton and Johnny Damon hope to return to the Rays next year, they told Marc Topkin of the St. Petersburg Times. Damon has a say as a free agent, while Upton is under the Rays' control as an arbitration eligible player.
- Dan Connolly of the Baltimore Sun is starting to think Andy MacPhail could return as the Orioles' president in 2012.
- The Yankees' metrics have Curtis Granderson as an above-average defensive outfielder, GM Brian Cashman told Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports.
- Andrew Stoeten took a look at the Blue Jays' infield over at Drunk Jays Fans.
“The Yankees’ metrics have Curtis Granderson as an above-average defensive outfielder, GM Brian Cashman told Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports.”
Doesn’t matter Jacoby Ellsbury had a unicorn for breakfast this morning. That brought his UZR up to 41.7 for the season. Cano agree’s..I’m still scratching my head how Cano didn’t even make the list in terms of top 2nd basemen metrics in comparison to his peers. You pole any GM in baseball right now (in fact any baseball mind in general) and they’ll pick Cano over any one player. Don’t get me wrong, I like Pedroia a lot, probably the best Red Sox player, but I just get a kick out of how poorly rated a few Yankee players are. This is why I’m 50/50 on the whole sabermetrics thing. Yeah it works, but…
I know its a dumb question, but does anyone else think there is some bias in determining these numbers? What entity or person is responsible for providing the most accurate metrics in sports? BA? Just curios as to who these voices are..
the red sox, obviously
I definitely am convinced that UZR is less accurate when it comes to infielders vs outfielders. Cano is a perfect example. Last year he ranked at the top (#1 or #2) in just about every def category like PO, TC, DP, Assists, etc and the fielding bible had him as a great def player but UZR’s “eye ball” accounting of his range brought down his overall UZR rating.
defensive rating systems fluctuate yearly which is why 1 years worth of data shouldn’t win any arguements.
That being said, outfielders with fly ball pitchers in their rotation fair better and infielders with ground ball pitchers fair better.. More opportunity = more range (not actually, just in terms of rating systems)
Yankees don’t really have a lot of ground ball pitchers, so there is your skewed data.
brett gardner is really a +50 outfielder, UZR is just biased against the yankees
I dont think it’s organizational bias as much as it’s positional bias. Certain positions aren’t evaluated well by UZR (for example 1B). Others (CF for example) seem to be relatively believable.
Personally I like stats that I can understand and derive myself. I can do neither with UZR.
However I do see it as a very interesting stat, not as way of saying who should win a gold glove but as a universal way that fans think. The fact is if it agrees with their own viewpoint then it’s a good stat. If it doesn’t then its a bad stat.
Yeah, but the thing is when you use the pole, you can never be certain if the GMs are telling you what they really think, or are just telling you what they think you want to hear in order to avoid becomming better acquainted with the pole…
What kind of pole? A telephone pole? I’d rather poll any GM in baseball instead of play with their poles.
If you’re gonna nit-pick someone’s post you could at least reply to THEIR post.
Amateur.
Uh, Jeff buddy, if you’re going to nit-pick someone’s nit-pick, I suggest you read the post they replied to closely first…
burn
burn
Touche. Damn me for logically assuming he meant the post right above his. 🙁 I am ashamed.
” Justin J. Bartz Today 02:38 PM in reply to Century”
Jeff, thanks for playing. We have some lovely parting gifts for you.
ooow… i don’t know why should we doubt SABRMetrics, is not as if Bill James would be biased just because he receives a paycheck from the redsox; we’ve had unbiased reports in the past from workers of the sox, like… the mitchell repor…ooh ok, i see your point LOL.
The sad thing is I don’t know if you’re serious or joking…
story of his life
Does A.J. Burnett project as a below average starting pitcher?
MacPhail is not the problem. Player development is the problem. International scouting is also a problem. Fix those, and Andy can stay. Stability is a huge part of rebuilding. But so is player development. Bring back the “Oriole Way”, and we can succeed. Go O’s!
Yeah, it really is all about development. There’s all these O’s fans out here who complain the Red Sox and Yankees spend more money and think signing Prince Fielder or a FA of the like is the answer to somehow catch up. What they don’t realize is, as much as those teams spend, they’re generally getting players to supplement guys who were homegrown by those organizations (Ellsbury, Pedroia, Youkilis, Lester, Cano, Jeter, etc… all guys who were homegrown). The Orioles’ recent track record in developing talent is appalling.
Bring in Theo! Player Dev is his strength. It’s sure not FA acquisitions.
Well, the sox spent 280 millions to replace:
a) Cameron (2010 free agent signing) who replaced free agent Jason Bay, who replaced free agent Manny Ramírez, who replaced O’Leary (acquired from the Brewers), and Leary had replaced Cordero who came from the Expos to replace homegrown talent Mike Greenwell in 1997;
b) Adrián Beltré (a 2010 free agent signing);
And Beltré was signed to replace Lowell (acquired via trade), Lowell had been acquired to replace Mueller (acquired via free agency)… who had been brought to replace homegrown talent Shea Hillenbrandt in 2003.
Youkilis, originally a third baseman had been placed at first base to replace Millar (bought from the Marlins), and Millar had been brought to replace Tony Clark (free agent), and Clark was signed to replace Daubach (free agent), oh yeah and Daubach had replaced Mike Stanley (free agent), Stanley went to the sox to replace homegrown talent Mo Vaughn who last played with the bosox in 1998.
LOL
“who replaced free agent Jason Bay”
can’t beat that research
the sox also generated more value from their homegrown players than any other team this year aside from the Rays, who *barely* beat them. and this was without Youkilis and Buchholz.
i guess i don’t see your point, unless it’s that you hate your hometeam, hate the Red Sox more, and hate yourself the most
the rays (28.1) actually trailed the red sox (30.6) in homegrown production in 2011
the rays (28.1) actually trailed the red sox (30.6) in homegrown production in 2011
I’m not replying so much because I disagree with your overall defense, but moreso that “value” excluded international free agents, which in most cases I have a problem with. For instance, a guy like Chien-Ming Wang, or Cano, or Melky Cabrera, yes, they were not drafted in the American draft, but the Yankees’ farm still developed, conditioned and spent money and roster spots on them.
I see no reason this shouldn’t be included into the same value as a homegrown who cost a draft pick.
So excluding Nova, Cano, Montero, Nunez (this one I’m not positive about) I find to be BS in defense of the Yankees.
internationals free agents were counted as homegrown
internationals free agents were counted as homegrown
I’m not replying so much because I disagree with your overall defense, but moreso that “value” excluded international free agents, which in most cases I have a problem with. For instance, a guy like Chien-Ming Wang, or Cano, or Melky Cabrera, yes, they were not drafted in the American draft, but the Yankees’ farm still developed, conditioned and spent money and roster spots on them.
I see no reason this shouldn’t be included into the same value as a homegrown who cost a draft pick.
So excluding Nova, Cano, Montero, Nunez (this one I’m not positive about) I find to be BS in defense of the Yankees.
I’m gonna disagree here. There are a few reasons why the GM / President is responsible:
1. Player Development is part of his job. He hires the player development staff.
2. His signees have under-performed, pointing to a flawed player analysis process.
3. His desire to combine young players with Vets (along with not trading Oriole vets) has set the team back from what it could have been.
4. Poor handling of young players (e.g. Matusz) falls squarely on his shoulders.
I can keep going but I won’t. I like MacPhail as a businessman. But he’s not a GM. We need a stats-savvy, player-focused GM. Names that come to mind as possibilities include DiPoto, Levine, Cherington, etc. MacPhail will be a great President, so long as he isn’t making personnel decisions.
MacPhail has done absolutely nothing in his time here to make me believe he would make a good president. He has openly admitted that the times have moved past him. He isn’t a good baseball mind anymore in nearly any aspect.
The Orioles organization is probably the most dysfunctional in baseball, and it starts with the head.
Peter Angelos is pathetic. The personnel moves that he makes stink of good old boy nepotism. Mike Flanagan, who had never spent a single minute working in a front office, as a GM? How long has the Orioles farm system been a mess? I bet that lines up pretty well with the tenures of Joe Jordan and Stockstills. Angelos would never dream of firing any of those three. Proof? Instead of getting fired back in 2010, the Stockstills just switched jobs. “Hey, John’s terrible at his job and Dave’s terrible at his job… Let’s switch ’em!” And then came Andy MacPhail. The best of the good old boys. “Andy’s Twins won a World Series back in 1987 and another in 1991! He’s a proven winner! And his dad was a GM in Baltimore!” The best of the good old boys. Angelos’s dream!
I could rant and rave about Angelos’s joke of an organization for hours…
…How many trades did Angelos nix before Pat Gillick got fed up and left?
…How long did it take Angelos to decide he didn’t like Frank Wren?
…How long is it going to take Angelos to get over the Albert Belle deal? Hey, Peter: Not every free agent out there has a degenerative hip condition.
Through the horrific mess of the past 15 years, the Orioles have become so averse to risk that I don’t think it’s possible for them to turn the ship around unless Angelos sells the team. Angelos himself is afraid to spend too much money on the team since the Belle deal went sour and MacPhail is the perfect chronie for that mentality. The biggest free agent contract MacPhail has EVER handed out was four years and $24MM for Todd Hundley. That, along with the ugly mess of free agent deals MacPhail has handed out during his tenure in Baltimore, proves two points:
1. MacPhail is just as averse to spending as his boss.
2. MacPhail is a poor talent evaluator.
Oh, and MacPhail has also gone on the record saying that he doesn’t think that it’s a good idea to spend money on international free agents. But he’ll throw away $5MM on the Derrek Lee’s and Garrett Atkins’s of the world any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
Edit: Clicked Reply a bit too early there…
Like Jeff, I like MacPhail as a businessman. It’s plain as day that he knows how to make a lot of money off a baseball team. But the game has obviously passed him by. Back in the late 80’s and early 90’s, you didn’t have to scout internationally and you didn’t have to worry about spending $100MM on top of the line free agents. But the scope of the game has changed, and Andy MacPhail hasn’t. And the same goes for Peter Angelos.
I’m sure they’re both great guys and I’m sure they want to turn the Orioles back around, but after 18 years for Angelos and four years for MacPhail, it’s think it’s pretty clear that neither of them have what it takes to make that happen.
I like MacPhail as a businessman in 1990. Now he seems like a guy who just can’t keep up with running an organization let alone the Orioles.
I like MacPhail as a businessman in 1990. Now he seems like a guy who just can’t keep up with running an organization let alone the Orioles.
The Orioles organization is probably the most dysfunctional in baseball, and it starts with the head.
Peter Angelos is pathetic. The personnel moves that he makes stink of good old boy nepotism. Mike Flanagan, who had never spent a single minute working in a front office, as a GM? How long has the Orioles farm system been a mess? I bet that lines up pretty well with the tenures of Joe Jordan and Stockstills. Angelos would never dream of firing any of those three. Proof? Instead of getting fired back in 2010, the Stockstills just switched jobs. “Hey, John’s terrible at his job and Dave’s terrible at his job… Let’s switch ’em!” And then came Andy MacPhail. The best of the good old boys. “Andy’s Twins won a World Series back in 1987 and another in 1991! He’s a proven winner! And his dad was a GM in Baltimore!” The best of the good old boys. Angelos’s dream!
I could rant and rave about Angelos’s joke of an organization for hours…
…How many trades did Angelos nix before Pat Gillick got fed up and left?
…How long did it take Angelos to decide he didn’t like Frank Wren?
…How long is it going to take Angelos to get over the Albert Belle deal? Hey, Peter: Not every free agent out there has a degenerative hip condition.
Through the horrific mess of the past 15 years, the Orioles have become so averse to risk that I don’t think it’s possible for them to turn the ship around unless Angelos sells the team. Angelos himself is afraid to spend too much money on the team since the Belle deal went sour and MacPhail is the perfect chronie for that mentality. The biggest free agent contract MacPhail has EVER handed out was four years and $24MM for Todd Hundley. That, along with the ugly mess of free agent deals MacPhail has handed out during his tenure in Baltimore, proves two points:
1. MacPhail is just as averse to spending as his boss.
2. MacPhail is a poor talent evaluator.
Oh, and MacPhail has also gone on the record saying that he doesn’t think that it’s a good idea to spend money on international free agents. But he’ll throw away $5MM on the Derrek Lee’s and Garrett Atkins’s of the world any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
Edit: Clicked Reply a bit too early there…
Like Jeff, I like MacPhail as a businessman. It’s plain as day that he knows how to make a lot of money off a baseball team. But the game has obviously passed him by. Back in the late 80’s and early 90’s, you didn’t have to scout internationally and you didn’t have to worry about spending $100MM on top of the line free agents. But the scope of the game has changed, and Andy MacPhail hasn’t. And the same goes for Peter Angelos.
I’m sure they’re both great guys and I’m sure they want to turn the Orioles back around, but after 18 years for Angelos and four years for MacPhail, it’s think it’s pretty clear that neither of them have what it takes to make that happen.
MacPhail is not the problem? How can you state that with a straight face?
Out of curiousity today, I googled Richard Justice and Ed Wade. I wanted to see what kind of job Justice thought Ed Wade was doing. In case your wondering, I compare MacPhail to Wade a lot, that’s why I bring this up. Back in May 2011 Justice states, Ed Wade isn’t the best GM in baseball, but the Astros could do far worse than Wade.
Far worse? Far Worse? How’s that possible Richard? I have MacPhail and Wade as the worse two GM’s in all of baseball! They are tied for last in my book. So Zach, how can you say MacPhail isn’t the problem. His plan stinks! He’s a terrible salesman to get free agents to sign in Charm City. He is not a people person. I could go on, but won’t.
PS How many 1st baseman does Ed Wade’s Astros need
He has Carlos Lee, Kody Hinze, Brett Wallace and now Chris Singleton from the Pence trade. That’s very exciting Ed!
PSS I didn’t know Richard Justice was a Wade apologist
yup we need a new owner too thats real problem too
What Johnny Damon does this off season is going to be interesting. He’s about 2 years away from the magic 3000 hits plateau, which MAY make him a HOF’er, and he had a decent year with Tampa. Will they make him an offer that he will accept or will he live up to his history and chase the top dollar? Tampa with the artificial turf suits him just fine as a DH and it’s close to home for him. The team needs another bona-fide hitter to protect Longoria, and we’re familiar with their budget constraints.
So the question is: will they go and spend to get that hitter they need and offer Damon something he can accept or if not, will he walk away in his search for the money?
I imagine Brandon Guyer might get a shot at the full-time gig (or another OF type) following Rays tradition.
I think Upton has hit his way these past few months into another arbitration offering.
MacPhail needs to go. It starts at the top, right? What kind of message does it send to the organization to have someone with fail in their name as president? Especially around the impressionable young prospects.
The Rays have the young pitching, they need to trade Shields for a good position player and it’s time to trade Upton for a good hitter.
The Rays have the young pitching, they need to trade Shields for a good position player and it’s time to trade Upton for a good hitter.
The Rays should trade Shields and Upton to the Dodgers for Either and Loney.
How could that possibly work? That would mean that the Dodgers would be taking on money, which I don’t believe they can do. And for the Rays, why would they give up three seasons of the guy that was their best pitcher for the season, and one year of a guy that has far higher upside than the two guys they are acquiring, for only one year a piece. Doesn’t make sense.
The Dodgers need a good starter and the Rays are going to trade Shields now that Moore is ready, so Shields for Either.
Shields is coming off his best year, with 3 more years of potential control, while Ethier is coming off his worst year, with one more year of potential control. Why would the Rays trade three years one of their best players for one year of a guy coming off his worst year?
not only that Eithier is going to cost money, if and when they trade shields and upton it will be for young, cheap and controllable players.
not only that Eithier is going to cost money, if and when they trade shields and upton it will be for young, cheap and controllable players.
The Dodgers need a good starter and the Rays are going to trade Shields now that Moore is ready, so Shields for Either.
Top candidate for worst trade proposal of the year.
The Rays should trade Shields and Upton to the Dodgers for Either and Loney.
Drunk Jays Fans? Wow, lol. Judging from the sample that frequents this site, I’d say that name sounds about right.