8:25pm: ESPN's Karl Ravech hears that the compensation would involve prospects and/or cash, but no MLB players. Pete Abraham of the Boston Globe hears that the Red Sox wouldn't saddle the Cubs with bad contracts in the proposed arrangement and notes that Epstein remains undecided about the possible change (Twitter links).
8:05pm: Epstein would need Boston's approval to bring employees with him to Chicago, according to ESPN.com's Buster Olney (on Twitter). Carrie Muskat of MLB.com hears that the Cubs made an offer and Epstein is now deciding whether to leave the Red Sox (Twitter link).
7:20pm: Epstein's nearing a deal with the Cubs, Sean McAdam of CSNNE.com confirms. The deal isn't done yet, as some issues other than compensation have to be resolved. Meanwhile, Yahoo's Tim Brown hears that Red Sox ownership is making a play to keep Epstein, but won't ask him to continue in a job he doesn't want (Twitter link).
5:44pm: Boston GM Theo Epstein is "on the cusp" of leaving the Red Sox for a job with the Cubs, according to Steve Buckley of the Boston Herald. Red Sox ownership still hopes to retain Epstein and if he is to leave, Boston will demand "something real" as compensation.
Epstein's proposed deal with the Cubs would include more power than he has in Boston, according to Buckley. The teams could make an announcement within a day or two and the situation will be "resolved very soon."
When Cubs chairman Tom Ricketts outlined his ideal GM candidate after firing Jim Hendry, he said he wanted someone with a commitment to player development and a strong analytical background who came from a background of success. Epstein, who became Boston's GM in 2002, certainly qualifies.
The Red Sox won two World Series titles under Epstein (2004, 2007) and have made six playoff appearances since 2003. They missed the postseason for the second consecutive year in 2011 after a September slide that cost manager Terry Francona his job. Our Transaction Tracker has every one of Epstein's moves as GM. Check out Tim Dierkes' look ahead to the Cubs' offseason for a preview of Epstein's first winter in the Windy City.
Now, get a new owner, manager, and pitching staff.
New owner?
I don’t hate the Cubs but I don’t like Ricketts, I don’t remember why
Seems logical.
Seems logical.
Sounds like rational and reasonable dislike then.
because he knows nothing about baseball and fires jim hendry who was a decent GM who had a bad year or two recently yet lets Crane Kenny keep his job…for now is that why?
1) Hendry was the GM for 9 years. The organization wasn’t progressing. I liked Jim Hendry, but it was time for a change. 2) I can’t believe I’m actually defending him, but Crane Kenney is a pretty important part of the Cubs business plans. As long as he isn’t involved with any on field personnell decisions, I could care less if he stays around.
Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
You must be one of the fairweather fans that real fans hate.
yep, I’m not a real fan. You got me. I’m just a bandwagon fan who grew up in Massachusetts and moved to New York. What gave me away? /s
“Don’t let the door hit you on the way out. “
A+
It was likely the fact that you apparently don’t appreciate everything Theo has done for the Sox; I mean he is the best GM in the teams history and all…
I appreciated the things he has done but I don’t like the fact that he didn’t stand up for Francona to the very last second. That’s awesome that he helped turned the organization around, but it is ridiculous that he didn’t take full responsibility in the end.
that’s a really odd reason to want epstein gone. google “shortsighted”
that’s a really odd reason to want epstein gone. google “shortsighted”
So true. Also, the Red Sox lack of player development and scouting is showing. I don’t know what Tampa is doing on the scouting side of pitching but, they have it going on. They can give up on free agent pitching in still have AAA depth to compete year after year. Theo had zero AAA depth to give to Tito not to mention no corner outfielders. Time for a change.
“the Red Sox lack of player development and scouting is showing. I don’t
know what Tampa is doing on the scouting side of pitching but, they
have it going on. ”
tampa got less production from homegrown talent than boston this year. corner outfielders is the one thing boston had in excess at AAA
step 1 – know things
step 2 – talk
“the Red Sox lack of player development and scouting is showing. I don’t
know what Tampa is doing on the scouting side of pitching but, they
have it going on. ”
tampa got less production from homegrown talent than boston this year. corner outfielders is the one thing boston had in excess at AAA
step 1 – know things
step 2 – talk
All those top 5 picks and the whole “we can’t sign you so we’ll just trade you for prospects or collect compensation pick” plan certainly has something to do with the Rays success. Price was the #1 overall. They used Young (their #1) to trade for Garza who they then traded for more prospects.
I hate the Sox but I’ll give whoever is responsible credit for making the most of what is usually a late 1st round selection.
hey hey john!
You mean the lack of player development that allowed them to trade for Adrian Gonzalez and Victor Martinez, among others?
The Red Sox have one of the best core group of home grown players in baseball.
So true. Also, the Red Sox lack of player development and scouting is showing. I don’t know what Tampa is doing on the scouting side of pitching but, they have it going on. They can give up on free agent pitching in still have AAA depth to compete year after year. Theo had zero AAA depth to give to Tito not to mention no corner outfielders. Time for a change.
” I don’t like the fact that he didn’t stand up for Francona to the very last second.”
How do you know? How do you know that Epstein’s relationship with Henry wasn’t soured because he did stand up for Francona? Not everything is made public.
Don’t have the inside scoop but my guess is that since Theo looks to be headed out as well then maybe he didn’t have as much of the support as he would’ve liked or maybe not enough say so in the plight of Francona. If they were displeased with Francona then they probably were not completely interested in what Theo had to say about him. My guess is, while they wanted him back for 2012, he may have caught some heat for the collapse as well. In baseball, it’s the manager that goes first and if things don’t immediately get better the GM is usually next in line to go too.
I’ll take a GM with two trophies.
Sincerely,
Dodger fan
I appreciated the things he has done but I don’t like the fact that he didn’t stand up for Francona to the very last second. That’s awesome that he helped turned the organization around, but it is ridiculous that he didn’t take full responsibility in the end.
Pink hats and such
I guess he should apologize for bringing you two world series championships, because you had so many over the previous 80 years.
I almost choked when I read this. (Get it?)
I laughed.
Sorry, I don´t get it…
That’s what she said.
Hey this has nothing to do with anything. I am only 2 “likes” away from 1,000.
Who wants it?
heh the best part was the “(Get it?)”
ahahahaha
As apposed to all those stupid make believe prospects the Cubs have been pushing on them.
…opposed?
Thanks, I’m sure no one knew what I was talking about until you pointed that out.
Here is something to me at least and the subject of compensation for one of the better GM’s.. Just what exactly top prospect wise would the Cub’s have Boston would could consider fair after they got robbed of the cream after Garza?
They cannot force them to give them a couple of #1’s like in the NFL or anything.. No problem if Epstein really wants to leave or anything, but they have nothing (IMO) enticing enough as fair compensation for a top 1-2 GM.
I thought that you said theo wasnt comming to the cubs?
Remember our debate a few days ago?
No, actually, I’m pretty sure we were arguing about whether Boston would get compensation or not.
Here is some compensation: Even though it says no saddling the Cubs with bad contracts, have the Cubs swap Lackey and all the remaining cash owed for Matt Garza.. I would help pack Epstein’s bags even if they would make that swap. Cub fans (most it seems) seem to think garza is a bust, but just because they overpaid for him, would still like to have the “human spitting machine” as a outstanding #4 starter.
Also, Cubs should just wait it out because Boston will fire Theo soon… lol
Seriously guy, you know they would!
something real=Castro?!?!?!?!
No.
something real=castro…. no one else on the cubs is “something real”
sean marshall and matt garza
I’m wiling to be something real is not going to = a high caliber prospect or mlb player.
How about Randy Winn?
Castro is more than real, and is a thousand times more valuable than any GM. Probably Marlon Byrd if it is a starter, or Welington Castillo if it is a prospect.
Please explain to me how a gm/ president if baseball of operations who controls literally everything. Scouting, drafting, trading, international scouting. Domestic and international free agents is less valuable than a SS?
Because Castro is an All-Star player, and the Cubs can sign somebody else to GM and not have to give up anybody… this really isn’t hard to figure out, I can’t believe I bothered explaining this to you.
And the award for most unwarranted self-righteous attitude goes to…
pick me!
I agree with Jntg4. Since when have we ever seen a current all-star caliber player traded for a GM? Castro is worth far more than a GM. A GM can have 3 or 4 drafts and still not develop a player as good as Castro is currently.
Well, I mean, Theo did just that (i.e. draft 2 players better than Castro) in consecutive years. See: Pedroia, Dustin and Ellsbury, Jacoby. GMs have far more influence over the outcome of a team than any individual player; they control which players enter the organization, which players leave, and influence how much of the team’s payroll is absorbed by any individual player.
I’m not saying I would trade Castro for Theo as there is no precedent for that and all indications are that Theo can and will be had for cheaper. One should also note there are more capable GM candidates than starting shortstops.
However, saying Castro is “a thousand times more valuable than any GM” is just reckless and fallacious, especially considering Jntg4’s tone. Also, there is a reason there are guys like Ned Colletti, Brian Sabean (shut up 2010!), and Ed Wade with GM jobs and guys like Tony Reagins and Jim Hendry with recent firings: being a GM is NOT an easy job, and it is difficult to find someone, even an intelligent person with an “eye for talent” and solid analytical background, who can handle it and deal with sharks like Scott Boras and Andrew Friedman. After 9 years on the job, Theo is a pretty known commodity.
finally someone else had the linebreak thing happen to them
welcome brother
Hahaha what the hell was that? Just had to go back and edit that fricking essay, obnoxious.
It does that to me every time I copy and paste
For the record, I’m not saying it’s easy and I don’t agree with 100% of what Jntg4 said but clearly I feel that Castro as compensation is way too much to pay.
The point is moot since Castro would NEVER be on the table from a Cubs’ perspective. He is just too integral to the future of the franchise. Non-issue, but fun debate. 😉
You know I would have the answer to that old friend and without the aid of googling…
Leave it to Charlie “O”.. He traded Chuck Tanner to Pittsburgh for manny Sanguillen and manny was a AS catcher many times over his career…
“There are so many people I’d like to thank for helping me win this award. For starters, me. Actually that is all. I am perfect. You’re welcome for my time.”
-Jntg4’s award speech
I’d like to thank Ricky Bobby, and Adam Sandler, but most of all I’d like to thank my Lord, Jesus Christ, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
finally, some sense. a new GM isn’t a guarantee that you’re ever gonna grow a top caliber player. why trade one for uncertainty?
castro…doesnt hit for power…and has a low OBP for a guy who does not hit for power. Yes this may change with time…he strikes out a lot and does not take a ton of walks, again something that might change with age. But his UZR and UZR/150 (after 2 years sample size is good enough here) is pretty bad…vs a GM who brought 2 world series titles to a team that had not won it in 90 years, drafted Els, lester, buck, and pedroia…was able to trade and extend gonzo, traded for salty(under rated trade) drafted bard, extended becket(loved by many at the time)got great value for trading manny away signed scuttero(ok at the time) and has turned the bosox into a power house year in and year out…yeah..Crawford didnt work out this year but who knows, Lackey had a ton of off the field issues(probably led to his horrible year) both should bounce back…And for all the JD hate his numbers and WAR have actually been pretty good for them
my biggest thing is by the time Theo’s moves with the cubs, assuming it happens, pay off castro, if he continues to hit this well, will command a huge payday and might not be on the cubs when they can possibly contend again…thats why its not the worst idea to have him be the player moved…maybe the cubs could get Iglasies back for castro..
Castro doesn’t hit for power? How many 21 years olds hit for as much power in the majors as Castro, he had 10 this season, that’s pretty damn good for a 21 year old.
Might as well end this debate as it has been reported that NO MLB players are involved though. Let’s not drag this on if at all possible.
reported by karl ravich…anyone who works for ESPN with exception to kerjikan is horrible about their job…this is not to fight with you but lets not end any debate until its all said and done.
fair enough, I can guarantee you that Boston isn’t getting Castro though. If you watched the Cubs day in and day out you’d think much higher of Castro, ESPN has led to his bad rep.
Because you’re dramatically over-estimating the effects that one guy has in the front office? Look, Theo’s a phenomenal executive, but he’s one of far more than 25 guys in the front office. Castro’s easily the most valuable of the Cubs’ 25 big-league players. No reason the Cubbies should do this. They might, but it would be kind of silly.
if he is president of baseball operations He not only controlls the 25 man roster, but he controlls scouting, drafting, picks coaches(see ya quade). Signs all free agents, extends all players. Puts people in charge of player development, makes trades(one of his strengths)..where as castro is a very very good player and by no means great(sample size people) And i even stated in another post that he is good and has talent but might be lacking the stuff between the ears. As seen in his stupid fielding mistakes and his lazynes on the field. Yes he could very very well turn out be to an all-star year in and year out. Or he could bust out…remember he hasnt played long in the bigs and plenty of players have had good years for 2-3 years and done nothing…So one offensive SS who lacks defensively or a guy who literally runs the entire organization and has a very very very good track record. I take the exec who has turned a team around before every time.
Well unless Theo has some skills with the bat, we might just need someone on this team who can hit with RISP. Trading the only real position player the cubs have developed in the past 20+ years may not be the best way to start off a tenure for the new GM.
Theo can’t play baseball.
He plays guitar
castro cant play defence…and Short stops who cant field dont develop very well
Honestly, most of Castro’s errors are on balls most SS’s don’t even get too that go down for hits. He also makes a lot of great plays. Put any college Junior in at SS at the MLB level and they’ll screw up just as much, age is an important thing to remember here.
Derek Jeter says hi.
marshall? they have some nice prospects, but theo would probably prefer to keep those
not enjoying the idea of losing theo for a reliever
when they say Something real, that doesn’t mean just some reliever, it means someone who is an extremely good player aka castro, the sox are not stupid and wont let him walk for a stick of gum
marshall is a very good reliever. and if the red sox are willing to let epstein go, they are in fact stupid
Theo is a top 5 GM, they would be getting more then that, and someone who is under contract for many years
it’d be nice if you were right but there’s no real reason to think so at this point
it’d be nice if you were right but there’s no real reason to think so at this point
Yea Castro is a top 5 short stop!!!
Theo is a top 5 GM, they would be getting more then that, and someone who is under contract for many years
marshall is a very good reliever. and if the red sox are willing to let epstein go, they are in fact stupid
facepalm
What did the White Sox get for Guillen?
Two of the Marlins’ top 10 prospects..
before the 2011 season. then they both had bad-as-it-gets seasons
I’m not saying they were any good. But I believe they were still ranked as top 10 prospects in the Marlins organization when the White Sox got them..
but it’s not like people were unaware their status had plummeted. all i’m saying is don’t hold your breath here. it’s probably not gonna turn out well
getting literally any player under 25(they both are) for ozzie is good for the sox…heck kenny would have probably been cool with a player to be named later. or cash…
not arguing the white sox lost the trade, arguing the red sox won’t win this one
They got a live arm who can throw in the 90’s but throws nothing else and a utility guy. And that was an IMMENSE overpay by Florida for someone the White Sox wanted to get rid of.
im pretty sure they were still top prospects when traded for…players stock in systems dont drop that much after one bad season, literally every player has had a bad year…at worst they moved from top 10 to top 15 which is still a good haul for a manager who simply didnt care anymore it seemed like
Yes they can. Awful years can sour opinions real fast. Live for a few years as a Cubs fan, and you will see the musical chairs that is the Top 10 Prospect list.
top 10 in a very week system.
you’re naive if you think castro would be the cubs offer for a gm
The Red Sox might not be stupid, but that’s not saying a whole lot for you.
Cubs management would be idiots if they traded Castro. He’s only 21, he still has a long time to develop. He is their future, and it would not be a smart thing to do.
No. There are dozens of good executives the Cubs could hire. They could take Cherington from under the Sox’s noses w/o having to give up squat. There aren’t dozens of All-Star-caliber shortstops the Cubs could just pick up out of nowhere and control for years.
Hah…how about “No”. Oh….never mind about Theo now…we want to talk to your assistant gm. Oh, and your current GM is on a 1 year contract and he’s pissed.
something real=castro…. no one else on the cubs is “something real”
Oh well. Congrats GM Cherrington.
As a Yankees fan, all I can say is YAYYYYY
Why? How hard can it be to manage a team with a 160 million dollar salary? Not only that but he’s made some terrible FA acquisitions.
Any Yankee fan should be happy that a top-5 GM in baseball is leaving the division
Sorry. I’m just amazed that a yankee fan admits Epstein is a top-5 GM.
To be fair the more knowledgeable Yankee fan realizes how good Theo has been. Just as we admire Cashman when the rest of the FO isn’t getting in his way.
Maybe he’s just shocked at finding a knowledgeable Yankees fan (not that the same can’t be said about Boston fans…)
EDIT: Just read through the rest of this thread and you’ll see what I mean
haha well said…we aren’t all idiots though
He’s not a “top-5 GM” and don’t know where or why you would say that.
I would be a complete homer if I didn’t admit that Theo, Friedman and AA were 3 of the top 5 GMs in the game. I dare you to name 2 others who are better
Daniels, Cashman, Melvin, Wren easily all better GM’s..
Wren…that guy who got his team to the playoffs this year (psst that’s one of the biggest anti-Theo comments I’ve heard recently so why
isn’t it applicable to another GM under the same circumstances)? And he does have those 2 World Series wins… wait that was Theo.
Easily like no argument, or easily like you could easily name other GMs?
Because… (the easily leads me to believe this is just another one of your comments meant to annoy people)
Easily? Yeah, that’s debatable. Daniels I’ll give you, and I wouldn’t put AA or Friedman in that tier (AA hasn’t won anything yet, Friedman relies on a lot of baseball guys around him), but Theo, Daniels, Cashman, and Wren are in a class of their own IMO. Mozeliak is under-appreciated, too.
Ok. This kinda goes to my previous comment. 99% of the time you take the side of the argument that the Red Sox or one of their players is on the opposite side. It’s pretty much a knee jerk reaction. Odds are I could say the 2004 ALCS was a great example of a riveting playoffs series and my guess is you’d say something along the lines of “The bloody sock was a hoax.”
I do acknowledge there are a lot of yankee fans out there who are willing to rationally debate baseball. I’ve actually lived with several. However as I said, every time I see one of your comments in something about the Sox, one of their players, or management it’s always on the anti-Red Sox side so I have trouble taking you seriously in a debate.
I’m assuming that was directed at Century
Bingo.
Yeah, considering not all my comments are anti Red Sox, but thanks for your point of view. I have the same opportunity to state my opinion on here and my opinion has never changed and that is I think Theo Epstein is way way overrated and there are many that agree with that. Not my opinion, the fact that Epstein sucks in general.
Not sure I said all your comments are anti-Red Sox. I am certain however I said given the choice in a debate where someone affiliated with the Red Sox comes in you’d take the opposite side.
As for your argument that people support your “Theo sucks” stance, so what? I’m still going with the 2 World Series wins, some drafted all stars, a handful of good rtrades and signings. Yeah, the guy must be awful.
He sucks at FA signings but is as good as it gets at making trades.
Such as?
remember yester-friggen-day when you talked about how the padres got fleeced for adrian?
me too
For real? The Padres got fleeced because Theo and Hoyer we former bunny rabbit competitors. Seriously, you better than anyone, should have understood my point then and now. That wasn’t intended to compliment Epstein, it was meant to illustrate the weakness of a select few.
Still having issues taking you seriously.
..and I really don’t care to be honest. I’m making a point and you’re making one of your own. There is nothing wrong with that. But enough with the “you don’t know what you are talking about” crap. Despite your willingness to want to disagree with everything I say, you know and you don’t need to say it, that some of what I say is correct regarding Epstein. Other subjects; I’m generally the first to admit when I am wrong or step out of bounds making a comment. Always have, always will.
Revelation! Theo isn’t perfect! Gee… never would have came to that conclusion on my own. You’re right, he sucks.
Fascinatingly, I still stand by what Theo has done for the organization and still believe it’s better than a solid majority of GMs out there.
jason bay billy wagner victor martinez coco crisp jarrod saltalamacchia nomar trade curt schilling shut up shut up shut up
Bay for Manny.
…See my comment above.
Just to add one to notsureifsrs’ argument, I’ll add the Nomar trade. See why a lot of us are having trouble taking you seriously in this debate?
Such as?
Like if Chicago Gm’s haven’t screwed franchises up.
There’s a reason Ozzie was dealt and not Kenny.
Like if Chicago Gm’s haven’t screwed franchises up.
ya bitter and jealous much?
Woo Hoo! Jays fans are happy too.
No effin way, will they ask way too much to nix the deal? Would that then force the Sox to finally extend him?
possibility, but i don’t think it would have gotten this far if that was epstein’s goal (as i hoped it was)
By “something real” do they mean he has to take Lackey, Dice-K, Bobby Jenks, and Carl Crawford with him?
Theo loves those old stadiums…
Can he please come to the Dodgers soon then?
He said old, not ugly
Ouch. It is the 3rd oldest stadium after Wrigley and Fenway, and besides its not ugly, its just boring.
THANKS FOR GONZALEZ! SEE YA!
And the two World Series Championships. You are more un-greatful then a 15 year old rich kid.
5 bucks says the sawx ask for starlin. And honestly if I’m the cubs I do it. A gm as good as Theo( this past year aside drafting and scouting he is one of the best) means so much more than a SS who has a ton of tallent yet might lack what’s between the ears. And besides by the time theo’s rebuild take control for the cubs to compete Castro will demand a huge payday. This is my deal Theo and lackey to the cubs for Castro soriano and big z. Z then goes to the marlins. Castro takes over at ss and soriano either plays left with cc moving to right or soriano dh’s. That’s a good deal for the sawx and the cubs yea take lackey but they save a ton of money by gettting rid of soriano and z. Plus soriano as a dead pull hitter would play very well in Fenway.
If I’m the Sox I ask for Castro, but that’s probably about as far as the conversation goes.
If the Sox ask for Castro the implication is they want Epstein to stay.
The reality is we get a AAAA pitcher, max… so maybe the Cubs give us Zambrano and pay his salary.
henry almost certainly wants epstein to stay. lucchino probably doesn’t, and if theo himself is fine with leaving then it’s all but done
this is not a ‘trade’ the red sox can win
Bingo
I don’t know, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Sox got a reasonable prospect or two. I would think they should get something at least comparable to what the White Sox got for Guillen.
white sox didn’t get much. it looks like a lot because guillen is a manager and a dumb one at that, but those prospects were not very good
I don’t know how good the Marlins prospects are overall, but the White Sox got two of their top ten.
preseason top 10. not top 10 at time of trade. #cynicism
Sure, I know they had bad seasons prior to being traded, but really, the same could have been said about Kelly before he was traded for Gonzalez.
I know that no two situations are exactly the same (maybe they didn’t have the potential that Kelly did to begin with so having a bad year hurt their value more than it did his), but if the potential was there at the beginning of the year I don’t really see that one bad season should hurt their value all that much.
kelly was a very different situation, don’t have to tell you why. unlike kelly, the marlins prospects failed when they were set up to succeed
– marlin system was bottom 5 in baseball preseason
– osvaldo was a low-ceiling prospect even before he failed in 2011
– jhan is a 22 y/o reliever who stalled in AA
they aren’t awful, but “top 10” is super misleading
Fair points. See my comment directly below…
couple of chc writers framing this as hung up on theo’s decision. handsome salary and total control of baseball ops (he wanted nothing to do with business-side), but theo ‘deciding if he wants to leave’
best case: negotiating through the press to grab power in boston
worst case: lots and lots of larry lucchino
Yep, I was just reading the same thing. At least it’s good to know that he has to decide if he wants to leave or not. Hopefully he decides he doesn’t (or he get’s what he’s looking for from Boston, should that be the case).
he actually profiled as a solid second basemen and a solid #2 bat..lots o contact little power…at worst he profiled as a utility man…Jhan is a 22 year old in AA with a plus fastball..and profiles as a closer or set up type…
you are using ‘profile’ the way scouts used ‘ceiling’. not a coincidence that you’re a whitesox fan hoping for the best out of those guys
martinez can’t hit to save his life and probably can’t stick at short; he projects as a backup. martinez is a reliever with a live arm and only one impressive year (2010) which amounted to only 40 innings, most of them at single-A as a 21 y/o
I should also probably admit that I’ve been wrong before based on optimism so…
white sox didn’t get much. it looks like a lot because guillen is a manager and a dumb one at that, but those prospects were not very good
I don’t know, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Sox got a reasonable prospect or two. I would think they should get something at least comparable to what the White Sox got for Guillen.
You lost me at “And honestly if I’m the cubs I do it.”
The rest is just as horrible as that notion, but did provide some entertainment value.
-C
Do you go out of your own way to add your signature “-C” at the end of your comment or is there a setting that you can add a signature? serious question
I wouldn’t say I go out of my way…it’s an ingrained habit at this point. I’ve been doing it anytime I’ve signed any sort of non-official document/comment for the past 25 years or so.
But, no, it’s not a signature.
-C
absolutely not. Young talent with tons of potential over some executive that is, quite frankly, overrated. How many albatross contracts is Epstein going to engineer so he can bring more overhyped, overpaid crap to the Cubs? The Marlins traded actual living players for Ozzie Guillen and I find it highly unlikely that the presence of some loud mouth fool is going to magically make them contenders. Players make you contenders. Epstein could be great for them, but not at the cost of already developed talent.
Why would the Cubs give up Castro? Theo is out of contract next year, so if the Sox want Castro then the Cubs would just wait to get Theo when his contract is up next year
This isn’t a player contract we’re talking about. If the Cubs get Epstein, they’re compensating the Sox for letting Epstein out of his contract, not for the rights to his contract. Any deal he has right now is nullified if he goes to Chicago.
Right, and if the Sox won’t let Theo out of his current contract unless the Cubs give up Castro, then the Cubs will just wait to get Theo next year so they don’t have to give him up. Theo isn’t worth Castro.
Again, you’re acting like this is a player. I don’t think the Cubs are going to effectively operate without a real GM for a year to wait on Epstein.
The Cubs have gone 100 years without a successful GM, what’s one more? You really think that 1 yr with an Assistant GM as acting GM would be so bad that it would warrant the Cubs getting rid of Castro, their best player? No way. If the Sox wont give up Theo for anything but Castro then it’s better for the Cubs to move on. (or just wait a year when they wont have to give up their best player) simple Economics 101.
I’m not saying it has to be Castro, but it can’t be organizational fodder like some are implying. There is absolutely no good reason for the Sox to let Epstein walk now without getting something of value in return. If he’s so important to the Cubs that they will put off the needs of their organization by a year to avoid giving up anything of value, then he’s probably a big deal to the Cubs.
For that matter, I can’t say that I, as a prospective employee, would feel comfortable going to a company that is willing to basically write off business operation for a full year because they absolutely cannot operate without me.
Or Boston promotes Theo and gives him a nice fat contract so he doesn’t go anywhere. Then, Cherington gets promoted and Theo is still there to watch over him.
That’s honestly what I expected to come of this.
if the bosox cant get at least jackson then i wouldnt be surprised to see that deal happen.
Drive Lucchino out, give Epstein his spot, make Cherrington GM and everyone anyone cares about is happy. The End.
Man, I wish.
you do realize this whole deal is so that Theo will be let out of his contract, the one with one year left, from the bosox and sign a new deal wth the cubs…EXACTLY like ozzie did..he had one year left with the sox..the sox let him out of it, “traded” him to the marlins and signed a 4 year deal with the marlins…If this deal actually happens look for theo to sign something like a 4-6 year deal with the cubs. If he was literally just going to be a free agent at the end of 2012, the cubs would not have fired hendry and they would have just waited for Theo..
umm..yeah. But you do realize that “agreeing to let someone out of a contract to go somewhere else” and “giving someone else the remainder of the contract” is basically the same thing, a trade. In consideration of the Red Sox giving up Theo (releasing him from his current contract) the Cubs would give up something in return (you’re suggesting Castro.) That’s just like a trade.
But yeah, it would be dumb for the Cubs to fire their GM to waste a year on Theo, but if they would be willing to give up Castro for Theo (they won’t be) then they’d be idiots. So honestly, if the Sox REALLY wouldn’t release Theo for anything less than Castro, then the Cubs would just forget about Theo, or try someone else out for a year then get Theo later if they really wanted him. Ultimately, the Sox aren’t going to ask for Castro because that would never in a million years happen.
i guess that weirdo at starbucks wasn’t lying afterall
I’m 99.9% sure I stalked Kim Ng into a Dunkin Donuts in LA. Can I get my own post on MLBTR now?
bye bye theo, bye bye lackey. what? a man can dream, cant he?
As a Cubs fan, I’d take Lackey. Is he really as bad as he was in Boston, or is it a Randy Johnson-esque deal? I think Lackey jut needs a change of scenery.
I love how the Sox cant win a championship for 86 years, Theo comes in and helps deliver TWO championships in 8 seasons and “Sox fans” cant wait to show him the door. Dumb.
He didn’t do it alone though. He had an excellent support cast, many of whom have moved on to other teams and positions since.
fact of the matter is that theo has been strong-arming the sox for years. he has wasted 515MM dollars in poor free agent signings, and has taught ben cherrington everything there is to know. he DID help to win 2 WS but hose were the days he was making intelligent acquisitions such as mueller and millar. his GM philosophy has changed.
Yep, Epstein was drunk with excess payroll to burn. It makes for sloppy/lazy decisions and management.
This is exactly what happened to Hendry, and is what has me worried about Epstein in Chicago.
fact of the matter is that theo has been strong-arming the sox for years. he has wasted 515MM dollars in poor free agent signings, and has taught ben cherrington everything there is to know. he DID help to win 2 WS but hose were the days he was making intelligent acquisitions such as mueller and millar. his GM philosophy has changed.
I don’t want Theo gone at all. I’d love for him to stay. In reality though, if he wants to go, and we can get some compensation in the process, then it’s alright if it happens. I’m not showing him the door, or praising getting rid of him. End of the day I think it’s smart to get something in return for him, and let Cherington have a shot at it.
I don’t want Theo gone at all. I’d love for him to stay. In reality though, if he wants to go, and we can get some compensation in the process, then it’s alright if it happens. I’m not showing him the door, or praising getting rid of him. End of the day I think it’s smart to get something in return for him, and let Cherington have a shot at it.
this is gonna hurt
if it ever ends…
That’s what she…never mind.
The first step back to respectability is to hire a competent and proven GM, and Theo is just that. Good luck to the Cubs!
I propose that Epstein trade for Alfonso Soriano to the Red Sox and then leave and join the Cubs as the GM/President.
I propose that Epstein trade for Alfonso Soriano to the Red Sox and then leave and join the Cubs as the GM/President.
NOOOOOOOOOOO! I can’t take this. First Tito now Theo? This is absurd.
NOOOOOOOOOOO! I can’t take this. First Tito now Theo? This is absurd.
I really don’t like this guy and this is exactly the move I’d expect from this type of person. A media puppet, someone that for the most part, had been praised year after year without ever showing any indication he knew how to build a baseball team outside of writing checks that where to big for him. Every move (and I want someone to challenge me on this) he ever made was either already done for him or handed to him (Gonzalez and his puppet buddy Hoyer). I’ve gone back and looked over every move this guy has made and not one has impressed me and many times, made zero sense. He’s had success in the draft about 10% of the time. So he gets credit for what? Ellsbury? Extending Beckett and Lester? Please those were lay ups and he couldn’t even time that out right.
Whatever to the rich Yale kid that doesn’t value making something your own and working out of jams when the going gets tough. Blaaa..
What a circus right now in Boston.
yankee fan has problem with rich kid
that’s…rich
See we’ve got something pretty cool down here in New York. It’s called diversity.
“diverse” standards does sound better than “double”
This is how I will be justifying eating chocolate ice cream for dinner while lecturing my daughter on the need to eat her vegetables from now on.
See, there is this really cool place called the rest of the world. You should check it out.
yankee fan has problem with rich kid
that’s…rich
A 10% success rate with the draft is amazing. Think about how
Many rounds there are. How many
Kids get drafted and never even sniff AA. any person who knows baseball would love a gm with a 10% draft success rate.
Oh ok
Either of those would equal the Cubs getting ripped off.
The compensation won’t be Castro. Sox owner’s have overplayed their hand here. Everyone knows they want to get rid of Theo, and that lowers his value. Plus what’s the relationship like if he does stay? The Cubs can go after several other GM candidates if the compensation is an issue. Sure, those candidates won’t be Theo, but they won’t cost a prospect. Someone said a AAAA player in another post; that sounds about right given the history of what field managers have returned.
Now watch the Red Sox wait about 100 more years for a title. Who’s going to be your GM, Wakefield or V-tek??
Cherington, but it’s not time for that.
cherington, the guy several teams including the cubs have considered hiring
We all knew this would happen….Sox management made it a point to mention that Ben Cherington was involved in the Tito decision and the manager search….they knew what was going to happen…
We all knew this would happen….Sox management made it a point to mention that Ben Cherington was involved in the Tito decision and the manager search….they knew what was going to happen…
Looking at Soriano and Zambrano’s contracts, you’d think Theo was already the GM.
That’s messed up but funny.
Looking at Soriano and Zambrano’s contracts, you’d think Theo was already the GM.
@Century
Good lord, where to start.
1 – Working out of his own jams? You mean being forced to sign FA players he doesn’t want by meddling owners? Yeah, I can see why someone would want to stick around for that.
2 – The owners are putting this on him. They got rid of Francona, and now they want to get rid of Epstein. I don’t blame the guy for wanting to get out of Boston, even if it means going to the Cubs. At least Ricketts will let the man work.
This is about Henry and the rest of ownership now? First I am hearing about the intolerable working conditions. But hey, I suppose any excuse will be sufficient right now.
By all indications, Theo was allowed to make his own moves. Unless you have something to support your stance then I think you’re talking out your behind.
His first few years ownership was involved in everything (likely to happen w/ Cherington as well), and it didn’t really change until his hiatus in ’05.
Most of his moves before 2005 aren’t reflected in the current team. Clearly post 2005 he’s made most of his own moves.
No no, I didn’t mean to say that I thought Chad was right. I was actually pretty much agreeing with you; he’s been able to make a lot of his own decisions since ’05.
smells like 2011 in general and the francona issue specifically were what brought things to a head here. ownership opposed to francona as early as august and theo in his corner ’til the end. that could absolutely have caused the power struggle issue to rear its head again
I’ll probably have another comment or two showing up here at some point (thanks disqus), but the Globe is saying they have “blockbuster” news on the Red Sox tomorrow. What would be blockbuster at this point?
nothing, it’s a bluff. if you have blockbuster news, you beat everyone in reporting it
my take: assuming the rumors are true to this point, theo is now negotiating with boston. there’s no way he goes this far into the process without making up his mind ahead of time ‘ok, i will be willing to go to the cubs if they offer xyz’. what i can see him doing is planning ahead that if they do make offer xyz, he’ll then talk to henry about options
seems like a reasonable interpretation of current events. and if so, this will be a serious test of my faith in/loyalty to henry, who should give theo almost anything he wants
That all makes perfect sense, but what reason does the globe have to bluff?
Definitely agree on Theo knowing already what it would take for him to go. And about Henry.
you’re going to check the globe in the morning, aren’t you? that’s reason enough
i’d kill to be a fly on the wall as i’d really love to know what theo’s specific concerns and demands are. does he want to be co-ceo, does he want lucchino moved out of baseball ops? seems to me it has to turn on those kinds of issues in some way
still think it’s 80/20 he’s chicaco-bound unfortunately, as i think despite their close relationship, henry’s and epstein’s visions for an ideal boston front office going forward are too different
by the same token, it doesn’t take this long unless he really is interested in staying in boston. i think that is his ideal scenario, but not on terms that ownership will agree to
Yeah, I think it is a good indication that he’d at least like to stay here, but ultimately I think you are right that he is most likely headed to Chicago, unfortunately.
Actually no, I’ll wait to see what someone else has to say about it most likely, but I get what you’re saying.
globe’s piece is up:
link to boston.com
Yeah, I don’t really care to read it. From what I gather it’s pretty much a hatchet job on Tito? Whatever, frig those guys.
err, what I should have said was I don’t really care to read it because from what I gather it’s pretty much a hatchet job on Tito.
It has been widely circulated since Crawford was signed that ownership was the push behind the deal, and not Theo’s choice. Very similar to how the Steinbrenner’s pushed Soriano on Cashman.
@Century
Good lord, where to start.
1 – Working out of his own jams? You mean being forced to sign FA players he doesn’t want by meddling owners? Yeah, I can see why someone would want to stick around for that.
2 – The owners are putting this on him. They got rid of Francona, and now they want to get rid of Epstein. I don’t blame the guy for wanting to get out of Boston, even if it means going to the Cubs. At least Ricketts will let the man work.
As interesting as the compensation angle is, I can’t see the Red Sox really getting anything substantial.
The leverage just isn’t there for Boston. What are their owners going to do, hold Epstein against his will to run their team?
Sure, why not?
Seriously, they said if Theo is going to leave they want “something real” as compensation; he’s still under contract so if they don’t get what they want they can always nix any deal and they’ve survived a discontented Theo before.
…yes?
The dude’s not going to tank his job because he’s unhappy. That may fly with a player, but if Epstein pulled something like that, his stock would effectively wind up in the toilet. There is absolutely no good reason to let him walk to the Cubs for something we will never use. Likewise, it’s unlikely the Cubs are going to just get an interim GM for the entire 2012 season. If the Sox refuse, they will look elsewhere and the opportunity will be missed.
I have mixed feelings on this, it all depends on who the cubs would have to give up…
The Beantown Meltdown: The Departures.
ddd
At the beginning of the year most fans and experts were picking the sox to be well on their way to a world series run.. 1 extra loss has lead to essentially a loss in their manager and now their gm.
Sorry to my boston fans, but I can’t help but grin about this.. He was a good GM, and this possibly could set the team back a bit, especially in terms of drafting and player development.. Now how do we get Freidman out of the division next?
What a turn of events.
you’re right
somehow this is anthopolous’s fault
Alex Anthopolous trades Epstein for Soriano & Zambrano. . .Red Sox front office declined to comment until a full investigation on how this was internally approved is conducted.
hahaha, it is all part of the master-plan.
I’ve heard that Jay Jackson may be the comp, I can’t confirm this though.
What an enormous score for Theo if this goes down. His work in beantown is done. There is no more credit to be earned. If he brings a title to Chicago, he will be immortalized as one of the best executives in the history of the game. If he fails, the Cubs are a cursed franchise that couldn’t be saved even by the greatest GM. Quite a nice spot to be in.
Guess ill have to be a cubs fan!
He’s over-hyped not over-rated.
Bottom line is that he won 2 World Series and no one can take that away. You can talk about piss poor signing, trades, excessive budgets etc. but he still won 2.
That makes him money in my book.
You have pinned it perfectly. He is very talented and at the same time overrated. Ppl in Boston spoke of him like he was a deity. He IS a top 5 Gm but he is and will always be human. Ironically, I think his latest signings (Lackey, Crawford and Jenks) are what took some of the luster of his gleam.
why is that ironic?
Maybe not ironic. Maybe just f’d up? All the good he did was erased by abysmal play of his signings.
when in rome…
who knows what will become of crawford..he could turn it around next season..coming to the Boston spotlight from Tampa…could take a year to get used to…now Lackey…he’s a straight up dud.
love that every other team’s fans – including the yankees – values epstein more than boston’s
you people deserve another 86
While I see what you are saying….there is no reason to believe that Cherington wouldn’t do just as good of a job if not better. He has been groomed under Theo for this very reason if/when Theo leaves.
of course there is
yeah but the argument is funny and riddled with “wtf’s”:
Theo is now bad. Cherington was groomed and taught by Theo. Cherington will be better than Theo.
Kind of like baseball’s version of the Jurassic Park conundrum. God creates dinosaurs. God kills dinosaurs. God creates man. Man kills God. Man creates dinosaurs. Just makes you want to laugh.
jeff goldblum for GM
link to solarnavigator.net
Keep it kosher.
excellent.
you beat me to it.
Theo Epstein: Most Hated Man in Boston
What? Why? I am glad we had him so long! HE will be missed
i’m much more loyal to the guy than to lucchino & company. hope he turns the cubs around and sweeps the sox in the series
Im not that loyal. Ill take the team first any day of the week, but i understand. I wish we could keep him.
team is a logo. my ‘loyalty’ (support/rooting) goes to people first and foremost. when i became a red sox fan way back when, it was because of the guys on the team – not the uniform they wore. i’ve followed the new ones (and new ownership and management) basically out of tradition
like e.g. trot pedro and damon, i’ll root for epstein wherever he goes. still a fan of the current team, but can’t really say the same for lucchino & ownership anymore
He was our last hope.
No. There is another.
In seriousness, I consider this a disaster waiting to happen and I’m probably going to hurl myself off of the Longfellow if this goes through. I just couldn’t pass up the Star Wars quote opportunity.
Brett Jackson is a more than reasonable target. He is the Cubs only near MLB ready elite prospect, but he’s not top 15 in the MLB elite. The Red Sox discussed Hanley and Youkilis for Beane in 2002, and supposedly decided on Youkilis before Beane decided to stay in Oakland. I’d argue the Red Sox have more leverage with Theo than the A’s had with Beane, since the Red Sox can match their money offer, something the A’s could not…also, the Cubs media has been hyping this up, the Sox have no reason to not ask for their #1 prospect. Do you think Ricketts is going to be able to cancel this over a prospect? He’s trying to build his organization, is PR conscious, and will probably fold..it’s all speculation, but yeah, the Red Sox should demand Jackson.
probably someone not as hyped as jackson. More likely someone who is in high A or AA like a Hah or Flatery or Ridling or maybe even a Mcnutt who is a good prospect who had a down year
They won’t get him. The Cubs have other options, they aren’t going to give you their entire future for a GM when we can get Hahn or Cherington for free. The fact that you guys think that Castro, Jackson, Garza, etc. are compensation for a GM appalls me tbh.
That aside, they may ask, but they won’t get him. Expect someone like Jay Jackson.
Not trying to insult you or anything, just saying that there’s no way.
Do your homework. At that time Youk was #3 for the Red Sox, but wasn’t even in the top 100. Brett Jackson, for comparison, is in the top 50 and the Cubs #1. They’re not comparable.
yup, the boston system was barren in 2002. then theo took over. mid-tier system despite trading prospects for gonzalez, martinez, etc. with the most homegrown talent in the bigs
but yea, no big deal losing him
…….
he is barley in the top 75 prospects in the mlb
Baseball America’s mid-season rankings have him at #32 . . . so unless you were speaking about his gluten content or ability to combine with hops to make beer, he’s not barely* in the top 75.
Their is no way the Sox get Jackson. None.
Bret Jackson is ranked 74th in list of mlb prospects.
Be realistic, it will not be Starlin Castro. No chance that happens
Agreed.
But who else could it be? The Cubs have nothing that is any value to the Red Sox.
really? nothing else? what a joke.
No surprise here as his days were numbered after the collapse and, of course, the long tired list of big ticket FA duds. His shelf life had had it. Good luck with the Cubs and I hope he can set the foundation to grab two WS titles for them.
told you a few weeks ago i’d eat my hat if this went down
munch munch munch
For what it’s worth, Comcast Sportsnet Central just cited a Peter Gammons’ claim that Buckley’s report is far ahead of the actual progression. I guess that is the nail in the coffin (like we actually needed one) the Gammons is in bed the the Red Sox.
This will wor out well for the Red Sox.Epstein had a great run but he had to go.The signings of Drew,Lugo,Lackey,Matsuzaka,Jenks and Cameron say it all.I will give him credit for Ortiz,Mueller,Bellhorn,Millar,Arroyo,Foulke and Okajima ut that was a long time ago in the baseball world
ppl that bash the drew signing know nothing about baseball. the man is a solid outfielder…hes just getting old..happens to everyone…its like you pink hats arnt satisfied unless there is a mvp candidate at every position…
Compensation should be John Lackey’s contract…LOL. Make the Cubs take Lackey back.
Take him back?
I think it’ll be Josh Vitters
Hold on…I didnt hear anything that the Red Sox allowed the Cubs to even talk to him. Isnt that tampering? They are on the “cusp” of a deal so they must have talked.
there was a report that said they had permission but the red sox never officially came out and said it. It doesn’t have to be public its all paperwork with the mlb so rickets has said he wants it to be quiet so they probably never announced it.
Gotcha, any idea about what type of compensation it would be? Player or money?
Dam I guess it’s time for a change…the yanks did it with Torre and now the Sox are doing it…but a little bigger thats all…people its not the end of the world.If it happens it happens …the Sox can only get stronger learning from their mistakes.
So I guess it was Theo at the Starbucks then?
Like the cubs really need help giving out bad contracts
Hendry couldn’t get anything right. Epstein will be able to build a top notch farm system that the cubs need badly.
If Theo leaves and the Sox promote Cherington–aren’t they really getting Theo Jr.?
that’s everyone’s assumption, but it’s not necessarily true. and even if he is exactly like epstein, he’ll have way less authority. lucchino’s influence will race back into baseball operations like a bullet through the foot
Thank heavens AA wasn’t Ricciardi Jr. AmIright?
The Cubs are once again missing the point. Is Theo Epstein smarter than their former GM, of course. But there are a lot of young intelligent, analytical guys out there that can be had for less money and no compensation. In addition it is always better to have more voices in the room. Giving all the power to Epstein means that all your decisions are made by one person. No matter how smart an individual is, they are flawed. The more smart people you get in a room that work together the better your results. So you should always have a Prez, VP, GM, Scouting Director, Manager and as many consultants as you can find that can contribute to the decision making process. That’s the best way to do things. Not to just find one guy who had success and tell him to do it with your team too.
Hmm. I don’t think they are doing that.
“Giving all the power to Epstein means that all your decisions are made by one person.”
that’s always the case, technically speaking. good decision-makers like epstein incorporate input from a variety of good sources; that’s why you put them at helm. he isn’t going to be working by himself
Were Lackey, Crawford, Dice K, Lugo, and JD Drew good decisions? What about trading Hanley for Becket? It really doesn’t seem like epstein has made that many good decisions.
no, no, yes, no, yes. yes
now do lester, pedroia, ellsbury, youkilis, papelbon, bard, buchholz, masterson, hanley, anibal, kelly-rizzo-fuentes, okajima, aceves, foulke, mueller, ortiz, etc. etc. plus all of his trades
someone like you — who either has no information or doesn’t want any that conflicts with his preconceptions — will probably never like epstein anyway
Hanley for Beckett actually wasn’t Theo, and was a good deal. I also still say the Drew deal was a good one.
You also surprisingly forgot to mention most of his other moves. Taking Ortiz off the scrap heap, picking up Billy Mueller, trading for Schilling, getting Millar, the Gonzalez trade, signing Scutaro, trading Nomar, all of the drafted and developed guys…
Yeah that Beckett deal was awful. See: “Beckett 2007 postseason stats”.
So you want baseball guys watching over your baseball guys? Take a business class…
the cubs had an over-reaction like this after having got swept by the la dodgers. they had to get more left handed and signed milton bradley. the red sox had an awful stretch of baseball and still were an elite team. they are not better for getting rid of francona, or by losing theo. marshall would be an overpay and castro will be hitting singles in cubs blue for years.
Man, he just loves going to teams that haven’t won a World Series in 80+ years.
Id say Jeff Samarjia will go to the red soxs, he fits them so well!, i mean think about it, 1.Samja can be a spot starter,
2.hes right handed! ( the number 5s they have are all left handed, Felix d, A.miller, ect)
3. hes Younger then Tim Wakefield!
4. he doesnt throw a knuckle ball!
5.he has experience in the pen, so he could be a swing man
imo id sent him or jay jackson, but out of the 2 Samarjia would work better.
Shark has a full no trade clause.
Theo-Iglasias(sp?)-lackey for Castro-soriano and big z, then the bosox flip big Z to the marlins for literally a bag of ball….The bosox can say..”you want our GM? we want castro..” The Cubs(remember the owner is the one doing this deal and he is not a baseball person) can say “yeah we want theo…you want castro? ok but you have to take soriano and zambrano and their entire contracts also”
bosox-“fine but you tkae lackey too”
Cubs” fine we will take lackey but you have to give up jose iglasias”
Bosox-“fine…”
not a bad deal…also disques sucks this was supposed to be a reply
noticed the time difference, you probably where typing when the update happened, apologize for the retard comment.
All i mean is that i would not give up Castro to get rid of our bad contracts. i mean we can do a lackey for Soriano swap if u want and then the cubs could flip big z to flordia for say Rickey Nolasco(sp). Id prefer to keep the one hitter on the cubs 25man roster that can actually hit consistently!
If the cubs get the chance to dumb Big z, and soriano while getting Iglasias(spelling?) back its a smart deal from a business and baseball stand point…apology accepted. I also apologize for my reply to your retarded comment.
no problem, and i accept your as well, i just dont wanna give up castro, it took the cubs so long to get a good player threw there system i dont wanna let him go, o and my comment was just blind rage because i like castro. Your deal makes sense tho. imo it sounds like the red soxs would win your trade proposal.
Im with ya there bud. I was called ignorant and other bad words for breaking this info a few days ago even before theo even was sighted in chicago.
You “broke” this news?
Did I mention I just saw Mark Cuban at a bagel shop in LA?
I see you were not present during the lashing that I took a few days ago but it looks like I was right.
The epstein in a chicago starbucks sighting happened after I told you all that epstein was going to the cubbies. Like it or not. It wasnt just a guess and I will never reveal my source. Look into my profile and read it for yourself.
I saw the lashing…
Thanks for doing us this service and breaking this news after it had already been rumored all over the Internet. I really respect though that you aren’t going to reveal your “source”.
whats your problem dude I was right and you do know it
The ” lashing ” just goes to show that people were not by any means in agreement
I dont necessarily need rumors with my source atleast on this subject.
You have no source.
You are such a liar. You said the Red Sox wouldn’t ask for compensation and that their owner wanted Theo gone. I guess that part of the report where it says the Red Sox are still trying to work on a deal doesn’t count, does it? You might be the most lost person posting on this website. Do we need to go pull your posts from a couple of days ago?
don’t even bother typing to him, there’s nothing going on between the ears
he’ll get more of a message out of a bowl of alphabet soup
Cherrington was mentioned in every internal discussion the entire off season for the bosox. People called me crazy for saying theo is going to the cubs. Now those people can choke on my words. I told you that theo was a lame duck and would have been fired if the cubs and angels had a GM in place at the end of the year, but some DB told me why would the bosox fire him if the cubs and angels were interested in him.
Atleast this epstein and lackey to the cubs for nothing BS will end now.
Your first sentence is false, and I proved it to you the other day.
I hope that this doesnt hurt the bosox. I still respect them as a cubs fan.
Theo has wedged himself into a corner. If he now stays, he’s “played” everybody and done the fan dancer routine, looking the fool. If he leaves, he blew hundreds of millions of Henry’s money on stiffs and got out of Dodge while the getting was good. Now, if the Sox talk him into staying with more $$$, time and a new title–then I have to believe that John Henry hasn’t the brains to come in out of the rain. Look at Theo’s personnel track record—and don’t dare mention championships. The Sox won, not because of him—but in spite of him.
go back to WEEI
don’t talk to him that way, he’s right you know
think of how many more championships they would have won if this awful awful man wasn’t Gm..
Epstein also ran a dog fighting circuit in his spare time fyi.
that’s a fairly huge paragraph of wrong you just wrote there
As a Cub fan I must admit to being unconvinced that Theo is anything special. I’d much rather the have lured Andrew Friedman away from Tampa Bay.
It probably would have been much harder to get Friedman from Tampa. Also they didn’t give any team any permission to talk to him.
What are you guys talking about? Friedman doesn’t have a multi-year contract. The cubs don’t need permission to talk to him.
I’d imagine those talks would START with Starlin Castro. Friedman is way too valuable to Tampa Bay.
Theo’s a good General Manager. I’m curious to see how he responds to Chicago, a franchise which is a lot worse than the one he took over in Boston.
Really? Let’s call 2012 a wash. Afterwards he would have about $70 mil coming off the books between this winter and the winter of 2012. If they aren’t competing in 2012 then he can go with cheep replacements in 2012 and have about $50 mil plus to splurge on a great FA class of 2013 if he wants. Plus he has a few interesting prospects to look forward to in McNutt, Dolis, Carpenter and Jackson.
I’m not saying he’s going to bad I’m just saying it’s more of a rebuilding project than Boston was when he took over. I think Epstein is one of the best GM’s in baseball I’m just curious to see how he turns Chicago around.
Someone said it before, the sox will get a AAAA prospect, Jeff Samardjzia makes a lot of sense. I actually wouldn’t mind seeing the Sox get Samardjzia and maybe another AAA prospect in return for Theo.
That would be a good move, and then they can have him play for the Sox and the Patriots.
Killing two birds with one stone! Why aren’t you being considered for the now vacant sox gm position? With an innovative mind like that..god you can be the president of Boston!
Some of the scenarios in this thread are hilarious.
K, the Cubs are not going to pay Lackey’s $46 million contract on top of what they’re going to shell out for Theo – which if they’re paying him a conservative $5 million over say – 4 years, would turn this into $66 million for a General Manager.
If the Red Sox get anything back, it’s likely some prospects that are good to decent and that’s it. No major league players. No ‘Cubs take all our bad contracts because that’s what every other team in baseball exists for – is to take our bad contracts’ stuff.
All it boils down to is the Red Sox are probably going to lose a really, really good GM and the Cubs are going to gain one. I really don’t think it has anything to do with anything other than the fact that I don’t think Theo is feeling very valued by ownership right now. From the sounds of things, it figures to be succession planning going on behind the scenes – conversations that would likely be going on with or without the collapse. It’s impossible not to talk when 3 of the 5 most powerful people in the organization’s contracts are up in a year.
One is gone (Francona). It sounds to me like management would LIKE Theo to stay on for another year as GM to transition to Cherington before taking a higher position. But they also don’t NEED him around for it. I’m sure they’d prefer to have Theo around, but hey – you’ve got a cheaper option in Cherington in house. So I think they’re letting Theo make the call and I think that probably drives Epstein nuts because he wants them to want him. I think it accelerated the Cubs bit.
Lucchino has been like a petulant child since the end of the season, so I”m sure he’s probably like a bull in a China shop behind the scenes at this point. Compounded with the sports media being literally over the top besides themselves (you’d think this team only won 20 games all season) and just utterly f-ing relentless (they were staking out Fenway during the Tito nonsense), I just have a feeling Theo’s exasperated with the whole thing. I don’t really blame him, either.
What’s most maddening is that this team really isn’t that maddening. They need a pitcher, maybe two and they’re probably the best team in baseball. They said an organizational faillure caused the collapse. The hysterical culture around this team right now is worse.
I just hope we don’t give up ridiculous amount of cash or Brett Jackson.
And just as I post that, Jon Heyman is reporting that if the deal goes through – compensation will just be cash. no players, no contracts.
Take Theo. He’s played his hand out in Boston. We don’t need him to win another World Series. It’s quite obvious he’s been a major fail in the free-agent signings.
7-20 in September is not the way you want to be remembered.
Good luck Theo, don’t let the door hit you in the @$$.
The man helped win 2 WS titles and also put his team in perennial contention in baseball’s toughest division. Yes, he hasn’t had good free-agent signings lately, but there is more to being a GM than signing players. Besides, it’s not like these moves severely hurt the deep-pocketed Red Sox. Without him, you would still be cursed. Ignorant comments like these just annoy me.
How much more money you think the sox are gonna spend next year after your boy Theo just racked up a quarter of a million on those 2 clowns Lackey and Crawford. Especially considering we still need to sign a DH and closer?
2 years and no October baseball (and the third year we got in we won zero games) equals time to move on.I’m pretty sure Theo wasn’t pitching, hitting and catching the 2 years we won the WS.
Strange. It seems as though if the Red Sox win two World Series’, it has nothing to do with Theo Epstein because he wasn’t playing the game. Yet if there is a year where the team doesn’t make the playoffs (or does but doesn’t win), it’s all his fault and not the fault of the people playing the game. Sorry, but at some point you’re going to have to be logically consistent. If he deserves condemnation for assembling bad teams he deserves credit for good ones.
For that matter, let’s be serious: None of these were bad teams. You can argue with the specifics of the contracts (and I do), but there is no arguing that Epstein assembled teams that have a strong chance to win in the toughest division in baseball. Even for all the “zomg contracts zomg zomg get out of town” hand-wringing that has gone on, and performances by somebody like Carl Crawford that are so ridiculously outside his career norms that they are STILL difficult to fathom even with benefit of hindsight, this was a team that came literally one out from going back to the playoffs — a blown save from one of the highest paid, most effective closers in the game. It was an epic collapse, to be sure — but it wasn’t a poorly assembled team.
Honestly, a lot of the whining from most Red Sox fans sounds to me like some strange rationalization mechanism, like how somebody who gets dumped goes on and on about how unhappy they were with them and they’re sooo glad the relationship is over anyway.
Im pretty sure theo wasnt pitching for that 7-20 team.
I’m pretty sure Theo was the man that put that team on the field.
So when the sox fail it’s his fault because he put the team on the field, but it’s in spite of him that they won championships. Which were won by teams he put on the field. I’m not a red sox fan, but I’m a logic fan.
I would personally like to see Tony Campana included in the compensation.
Cubs check list
Get Theo Epstein
Hire new manager (Theo is said to likes Ryne Sandberg) HOPEFULLY!
Sign Prince Fielder/Albert Pujols/ Carlos Pena (back)
Trade Zambrano and or if possible Soriano too
Build farm
Tell Theo to piss on Jim Hendry’s house
WIN WORLD SERIES
I find it funny that a lot of red sox fans are glad to see theo go. Bringing up signing lackey and crawford. Do these same people realize that lackey was the ace of the angels that won 4 division titles during his time there. Had a 3.69 E.R.A and won 102 games with the angels! Crawford is a beast, had a bad season. But will bounce back IMO!
It just seems that most free agents today are doomed to failure because they are being paid on past performance. This country is full of workers sitting their trucks in the parks waiting to pick up their checks.
Check out my take on the Red Sox at http://thebestsoxblog.mlblogs.com
Maybe Starlin Castro, lol.
After watching the kid for a couple of years, I’d give them Cashner. The kid really is starting to look like Smard – whatever, I can’t spell it – BPJ all over again.
After watching the kid for a couple of years, I’d give them Cashner. The kid really is starting to look like Smard – whatever, I can’t spell it – BPJ all over again.
As much as I like Theo (and honestly I’m a huge Theo supporter), I don’t think losing him is really going to make the Sox any worse either.
As much as I like Theo (and honestly I’m a huge Theo supporter), I don’t think losing him is really going to make the Sox any worse either.
No way in hell the Cubs accept that, sorry.
there is no cubs management right now. that’s what they’re trying to fix. i doubt epstein will be eager to give up part of the young core he’ll be taking over. he miiiight mention that to ricketts
what does that have to do with anything if they’re not involved now
what does that have to do with anything if they’re not involved now
not getting into. the point is that same exact guy one day ago was talking about how the trade was a steal for boston. now he’s questioning the existence of good trades by epstein
ludicrous speed
Trying to find a new hobby outside of baseball. The entire concept that this could happen is making me absolutely miserable.
Creative. Also, very stupid of you to judge someone with his track record as a bust ONE season into his deal… lmao.
‘liberated fanship’ has been calling my name for awhile
If you go back and look, I don’t think I used the words “steal for Boston.” You apparently misread the point I was making in that previous thread.
“I’m just one opinion, but the Padres got fleeced in the Gonzalez trade. ”
Dude, it took like three seconds to find that by clicking your name. I’d love for you to rationalize to us all here how that can be interpreted in any other manner.
You have a well exhibited vendetta against Epstein that is well past the point of absurd and approaching the territory of unsettling and frightening. I’m not sure if he ran over your dog, stole your girlfriend or what, but it’s exceedingly creepy how much of a problem you have with the guy that you exhibit such an over the top disdain (And I’m not talking just general “this guy stinks” disdain, it almost comes off as if you have some kind of personal problem with him sometimes) for someone pretty much everyone with any sense acknowledges as one of the best baseball executives in the biz.
Me too.
Signed,
Every Yankees fan
lethal strawman/platitude combo. you should write for the globe
Cashner’s already been in the MLB, and Jackson is our top prospect. Epstein won’t agree to go to the Cubs if he has to give up a player like that.
Odds are, you get a few mid-level prospects or Marlon Byrd.
Jay Jackson or Welington Castillo are your best bets, both have potential and should make it to the MLB.
I wouldn’t mind handing you guys Soto though. Steve Clevenger is a possibility.
yea me 2, wanted my comment to stay didnt know if it would get removed or not soo decided to play it safe.
Lol that is funny. I like the random capitalization of “Hefty” as well.
u like pictures dont you?
Welington Castillo and Rafael Dolis is something the Cubs may give up, but Castillo’s already played in the MLB, so he may be excluded already, but IDK.
I love when people spell with numbers…
Century has declined comment.
That “more complicated matter” seems to be whether Theo actually wants to go or not.
how would this hurt the cubs?
I say type 1000 words (no I don’t)
2500 to theo
…the Cubs are supposedly giving up Starlin Castro, Brett Jackson, a couple Giordano’s pizzas, and Mark Prior’s DNA. If you believe this board that is…
A team with a $160M payroll should win 90+ games, make the playoffs and contend for the world series every year. Anything less than that is a failure.
Well not to brag, but I’m sure they will get 28 before the Mariners get 1 :p
And Wimpy