The Red Sox asked the Cubs to include Matt Garza as compensation for GM Theo Epstein, according to Bruce Levine of ESPNChicago.com. However, the Cubs declined and the sides have moved on to minor leaguers. The Red Sox currently appear to be focused on Cubs pitching prospect Trey McNutt.
White McNutt is a valuable prospect, he's not as desirable as Garza. The 27-year-old right-hander posted a 3.32 ERA with 9.0 K/9 and 2.9 BB/9 for the Cubs this year and remains under team control through 2013. It's no surprise that the Red Sox were interested and it's equally unsurprising that the Cubs balked at Boston's request. The Cubs acquired Garza from the Rays in the January deal that sent Chris Archer, Hak-Ju Lee, Robinson Chirinos, Sam Fuld and Brandon Guyer to Tampa Bay.
Whoa… would Theo even want to go to a Garza-less cubs? I know he probably doesn’t have much say, but he probably doesn’t want to weaken the team he his about to be in charge of. (that much)
My thoughts exactly.
Srsly! I can only imagine this conversation
Boston: We want Garza
Boston: No, seriously
Chicago: :slaps Boston in the face:
I was, at first, wary of the reports of the talks being contentious. However, now having this information, I am a bit more amenable to accepting that…
I feel bad for the Red Sox. Oh wait no I don’t.
Hatin’ on the Red Sox again huh diesel2410? What’s the deal man?
Truly pure silliness
Well cant blame them for trying, I suppose.
Exactly. If a few words can get you a starting pitcher, say those words.
lmao i lmaoed
I’m not saying they should shoot themselves in the foot, but if the Cubs want Theo that bad they really need to find somebody of reasonable value who they are willing to give up in exchange (as this probably isn’t going to be a bad contract dump opportunity).
The Red Sox owe Epstein $3.7 million as a golden parachute. That means if he quits the day after the World Series they owe him $3.7 million.
If he stays for another year it will be as a figurehead that does nothing since they already announced Cherington is the new Red Sox GM and Epstein is under contract for $3 million in 2012.
That is a $6.7 million savings just by the Cubs paying his golden parachute.
For $6.7 million they can sign a great prospect.
Lunatics from planet wackadoo. Seriously.
Give em Z or SORRYIANO
guess lester lackey and beckett werent the only ones drinking
You are pushing 100. Mazal tov!
you should retire. go out on top
I’ll give you a ‘like’ cause I wanna see this reach 100, and because it was well done.
What if the Cubs say here is what we will give you take it or leave it? Would the Red sox say no and walk away, pay Theo to not manage. This would force the cubs to have a lame duck GM until next year or have the ownership run the team’s operation until such a time that they can get theo
The Red Sox are absolutely in a position to say oh well, try again next year.
Really, I would think the Cubs hold a better position they can wait another year to get Theo
The Sox would have to pay him to do nothing and with the crap storm the ownership caused with the exiting manager i would think they would just want to wash their hands of this
Imagine what the fans will be like after they’re this close to getting a new GM and the Cubs blowing it. Especially because Garza probably won’t be there by the time they’re contending.
Not in any way trying to support that Theo = Garza, but the Cubs don’t have all the leverage.
Or the Cubs could trade Garza for a bunch of Good prospects then sign Theo a year later.
You haven’t paid attention to :
– how many public brinksmanship deals the Red Sox have walked away from
– the fact that Theo already left once and came back
– the fact that the Red Sox have money to burn
Randy Bush is fully capable and willing to be the Cubs GM for a year and it costs the Red Sox $6.7 million to do that.
Epstein WILL leave and he WILL get a high paying job next year.
I know Lucchino is a backstabbing prick, but is screwing your former GM worth $6.7 million?
Well that would have been nice.
red sox hire scott boras for epstein negotiations
LOL…I guess you really can’t blame them for trying.
This is a double standard! So people are up in arms about players eating fried chicken, playing xbox and drinking beer during games and yet Red Sox upper management can do crystal meth in their offices? I mean, I don’t “know” that they were doing crystal meth but that has to be the explanation as to why they thought the Cubs would send them Matt Garza.
I guess the rumors are true – signing free agent busts is a gateway drug.
I was thinking crack cocaine, but crystal meth works.
crack doesn’t create a disconnect from ‘reality’. but I love the thought of high-end baseball execs sucking on a crack pipe.
lmao. atleast they’re trying
They want Starlin Castro for Lackey too.
cocaine’s a helluva drug
haha I came here to make this exact same joke, but you beat me to it.
All I can say is, EL OH EL
i don’t always ask for a team’s ace in exchange for my already-leaving executive, but when i do, i settle for a struggling pitching prospect instead
Dos Equis must pack a hell of a punch. It makes ya stupid.
Sam Adams Boston Lager by the keg is more like it.
Randy Wells it is!
Stay Drinking Red Sox….
serves them right…should be stealing GM’s who are under contract..GL winning a world series in the 21st century.. Chicago Scrubs
u mad woman?
Yeah serves the Cubs right. Doesnt matter though the Red Sox won the World Series last December right?
i dont care about the redsox either..i dont like either team..what i am a fan of is watching these two teams continuing to self-destruct and continuing to have insanely high payrolls… How bout this Ricketts..fix your stadium..its falling apart..how about this henry..get control of your ball club who free-falled while hammered drunk every day
Both suggestions are just flawless and based on credible, believable, realistic info. I concur.
Stealing or more like talking to an exec they were given permission to talk to? Crazy.
you make a good point yanksfansince78..he was granted permission..but everyone knows the rules..you come to terms..you pay the price..
5 years, $18.5 million, not the best pitcher on the team in almsot 10 years.
This is becoming such a joke.
a recent photograph of tom ricketts
The only way this makes logical sense is if they were approaching the situation in a “shoot high, aim low” kind of way. Even then this is still pathetically funny. This headline made me laugh harder than any headline ever on MLBTR and I’m an O’s fan! The Garrett Atkins headline doesn’t top this! The most recent Jeremy Accardo headline doesn’t even top this! LOLOLOLOLOLOL! Good try, Boston!
No harm in asking, I guess.
I wonder if the Angels would be interested in Theo? Cubs have some delusion that they are a good organization and dont need someone to come in and completely rebuild their farm system.
Also, its not like Matt Garza makes any difference for the Cubs, with or without Theo the Cubs are not winning for 5 years +.
Seriously, the Red Sox need to take a page out of Boras’s playbook and contact the Angels.
Then who has the leverage?
it’s not a trade. The compensation is something the Cubs pay to let Theo out of his contract. So they can’t just shop him to other teams- if he’s let out of his contract, he’ll be out of his contract and will sign a deal with the Cubs.
Pirates aren’t going anywhere either..should they give up Andrew McCutchen? Get real.
Get Real? So a FA who has no job, with no ties, no obligations will not field other offers from teams bc the Cubs have a non-binding handshake, ILLEGAL, verbal contract with them?
Maybe reality for you does not involve contract law?
They can’t trade Theo to the Angels if Theo won’t sign a contract.
obviously, but the Red Sox have all the power to make the Cubs life a living hell.
do you really believe the Cubs will go into the 2012 season and draft with an interim GM?
Most of you have no idea about contract law, if he is under contract then the Cubs are SOL.
The conversation has been about leverage and most cubbies claim they have all the leverage bc what will the poor Red Sox do if they have to keep Theo under the contract they signed. Keep Theo and move on.
Umm also smart guys, Angels = open GM job — do the math.
Seriously its like you guys dont know that Scott Boras’s only trick is to add another name to the negotiations…
–No. Theo isn’t the only guy they want. They could easily move on.
–No, but it’s not like they can’t have an internal guy promoted for a year and use the guys they have now, sign some scouts, and use those reports to draft.
–Yeah, whatever about the contract law crap. If the Red Sox are already calling someone else the GM, they’re SoL if Theo is forced to stay. They can’t make the Cubs’ lives a living hell, but Theo is under contract and can start some serious crap.
–They have the leverage for a couple of reason. First, he’s not the only GM in the universe. There are a lot of other people MORE than qualified and competent to hire. Second, the Red Sox have already tipped their hand by essentially saying that they are fine dumping Theo for his assistant, because if nothing gets worked out, you have a pissed-off GM running your ship. That, or you can pay him to not help you or pay him to leave, having him go to the Cubs for nothing.
–Yeah, and if Theo doesn’t want to go there, he doesn’t have to. You say that the Red Sox have to give the Cubs permission to sign Theo? Well, the Angles have to convince Theo to go there AND convince Boston to let him go there.
–You act like the Red Sox are trading the best thing ever. They’re trading one of a number of qualified personnel to a team with plenty of other candidates.
I couldn’t like this enough!
Hire the guy from the pad’s (theo’s buddy that his last name starts with a B as a 1 year GM ) fire quade and hire sandberg. Wait untill zambrano’s contract expires offer arb to pena and ramirez and let them walk. Trade Marmol and hope that dempster wants to move on. Then just wait untill Epsteins contract is expired or they release him. The cubs can wait 12 months, just make that deal with epstein for him to sign in october 25th 2012 and then tell the bosox to keep their lame duck GM we will get him in 12 months. Then the sox WILL back down to a reasonable compromise.
So you are willing to wait so that Theo goes on the FA market where any team can bid on his services. Fantastic strategy. Instead of paying Theo 20 million, might as well just give him $30 million, bc that is what he will get on the open market.
Right now you have exclusive negotiating rights with Theo and the Sox. Next year you just one of the teams in the mix.
You are severely inflating theo’s sallery on the open market. The highest paid GM gets 5 mil per year and he is in Detroit. My scenerio would have had theo allready commited to the cubs after his contract with boston is completed.
Please stop comparing Theo to a regular player.
a) Not all 30 teams are going to need a GM next year.
b) I guarantee you that most of those teams are not going to pay a GM $20 mil a year. Can you really see the Rays, Pirates, Padres, Royals, A’s, etc paying their GM more than they are a player?
c) Not all those places that might want him are going to be places he wants to go. There’s a certain allure that GMing the Cubs brings.
I’m not saying they SHOULD wait but this idea that he probably wouldn’t sign with the Cubs if they were willing to wait is sort of silly.
Hey smart guy, we live in the US, not Soviet Russian. Everyone can negotiate their salary. again go ahead push this so the Red Sox balk, I will crack up laughing next off season.
Think — Theo still gets paid, the Red Sox are no worse than the last game of the season and the Cubs still havent won in a Century +.
Who has leverage?
If the asking price was Garza (probably our most valuable player on the MLB team next to Castro) then we would walk. It’s that simple. A top MLB player, heck even prospect is far more valuable than a GM, and in the course of history no player of that caliber has ever been traded for an executive. Sox fans seem to think we’re overly desperate for Theo, while we’d love to have him, I’d be just as happy with Andrew Friedman.
Second… people seem to forget the Sox don’t have to pay 1 year of Theo’s salary, plus the end of contract bonus, which reportedly amounts to around 3.5 million. Fans always blow that off, but believe me, owners know this isn’t monopoly money we’re talking about.
When you factor all of that in, plus allow Theo to take a few front office staffers, MCNutt plus cash seems to be a fair deal, and sounds like what they’ll end up agreeing on.
Andrew Friedman doesn’t want to go to Chicago…
Did he personally tell you that?
He did decline their offer to interview him.
Pics or it didn’t happen.
Nobody wants to go to Chicago. I am shocked that Theo wants that job when the Angel job is more appealing and the Dodgers will be open soon.
am I? Do you really believe every team with an open GM spot will just let the Cubs do whatever they want.
Theo is a FA next off season. Follow me, its hard, but Theo is represented by someone who gets a percentage, do you truly believe he will not use his FA to his advantage in a negotiation?
Oh, so Theo is so dumb he does not understand his leverage?
I love Cubs fans, you guys have no clue. I am not even a Red Sox fan and I am hoping, wait praying (and I am an Atheist) that the negotiations halt and you have to deal with Theo on the open market.
Baseball is Capitalism at its worst, go ahead Cubbies play with fire.
that timeline is very confusing
I agree let Z”s contract expire and hire epstein at the same time but do the other stuff asap. Like before the bosox try to hire sandberg as their manager.
who else was with him in boston. The guy used to be the diamondbacks GM.
Why would someone come in from outside and agree to be their GM for a year? He’d have pretty much absolutely zero ability to do anything really.
I mean, you could always bring back Hendry for a year and wait for him to trade us Castro for Lackey and sign Carlos Pena to an eight year, $200 million deal.
Josh Byrnes was rumored to be a assistant to epstein in a new cubs front office so Josh as interim GM would be ok with the understanding that he will be stepping down when theo comes to chicago.
1 fire Mike Quade
2 hire Ryne Sandberg
3 offer pena 100k to turn down arb. Then offer him arb.
4 pick up ramirez option, and wait for him to decline it, then offer him arb and let him walk.
5 let lahair play 1b let lemahieu play 3b and resign baker as their back up
6 trade byrd and marmol for prospects
7 let dempster walk if he will
8 wait out Z’s contract or wait untill he melts down again then release him.
9 resign R Johnson
10 let Brett Jackson come in and have right field around 6-1-12
11 take all of the money that they are saving from this year and send whatever it takes with Soriano to get him outta chicago asap.
Then in Nov 2012 sign Epstein and give him the money to build a team with contracts preferably no longer than 3 years. Theo will have over 100 mil per year to invest in a quality team starting hopefully in 2013-2014.
It does not have to be someone from the outside
To be fair, he did win 2 world series rings and has broken an 86- year old curse.
Cubs fans dont understand these facts. They still believe they have a chance to win the NL Central with the Cardinals and Brewers. Delusions of grandeur.
Yeah, and Red Sox fans think Theo wants to stay in Boston.
I love to fire the natives up but you are insane. This is a much higher level than I would consider as far a peeing everyone off. Step away from the crack pipe.
Right…….Cubs woud struggle especially if the Cards lost Pujols and the Brewers lost Fielder.
Then Theo would sign 1 of those 2 🙂
I haven’t read a single comment from a Cub fan that would substantiate this comment. Most of us know that we are realistically two years from contending again, given next year’s crop of potential FA’s.
I love how Jim Henry jumps the gun, trashed Theo BEFORE he actually left, then starts asking for Garza.
when did Henry trash Theo? Is saying he wanted him around for the next twenty years considered trashing? Also, when did John Henry get involved in discussing the compensation?
He didn’t say John. Jim Henry is a 45 year old South Boston Resident that drinks too much.
sounds familiar. does he throw a knuckleball?
He used to. These days he just tosses bp.
Brian Cashman would be all over that.
Annnd I’m out.
Wake me when something is done, I’ll read the book in when it comes out in a few years: “The Man Who Killed the Goat: How the Cubs got Epstein.”
They had every right to ask for him.
The Cubs want out GM?
We have the right to ask for whatever we want. Whether the Sox actually expect to get him is another matter. When you’re going into a negotiation, you shoot higher than you can reasonably expect to get and haggle down. If the Sox went in asking for a B-level prospect from the get-go, they’d be lucky to get Soriano and a deep dish pizza.
A lot of reasons:
1.) GM’s – especially this GM – don’t grow on trees. He’s a highly valuable commodity to the Cubs and the Red Sox don’t have to give him up. They have every right to set the asking price as high as they want to.
2.) Whether Garza is on the Cubs next year really doesn’t matter. If I’m a Cubs fan, I’d rather the Sox keep their paws off of guys like Jackson and their prospects (Castro and Barney fall in that category, too).
3.) Again – the Red Sox don’t have to give up Theo. He’s under their control contractually through next year. Frankly, they shouldn’t give him up for anything less than what they feel like his market value is. They have the right to set the price. The problem is that the Cubs seem to think that its their job to dictate who’s worth what in terms of compensation, despite the fact that they want to give the guy $20 million dollars to manage their baseball team. That’s not out markets work. If you want a good you inquire about its price. You can try and negotiate down the price or offer a different package, but the Red Sox have the right to decline it. If the Cubs want Epstein as much as their check book says they do, then they should be willing to pay the price to get him released from his contract. The Red Sox have plenty of cash. They want prospects. That’s the price. The Cubs can walk if they don’t like it, but they can’t have Theo.
They can wait for him. They can hire Eric Byrnes and have him lay ground work. They can start a “Free Theo” campaign if they want to. But at the end of the day, Lucchino isn’t being a douchebag to set the bar high on the negotiations. The Cubs have already stated that he’s valuable by how much they’re willing to pay him. If Lucchino didn’t ask for a lot, he’d be failing at his job as CEO of the Red Sox by not trying to achieve the best possible outcome for his team.
If Theo stays, the Red Sox either work with him in the organization (which isn’t nearly as impossible as some are implying), actively shop him to other organizations who might be willing to pony up what they’re asking for or third – send him on a magical mystery tour to Mongolia for the year. Whether he stays or goes doesn’t mean anything to the Red Sox fan base at this point. They have a GM hired, so what’s eating $7 million? That’s roughly what they’d pay for Garza pitching or what they’d eat in expenses in developing/paying a prospect like Jackson. They’re playing with house money right now.
So yeah – they’d be stupid not to ask and push for Garza. The Cubs of course – don’t have to go along, but hey – I think its hard case to make to fans that the reason you decided not to hire this GM was because you were reluctant to get rid of a stop-gap starting pitcher. I can understand balking at elite prospects on some level – but for a guy who really doesn’t mean much to the big picture for the Cubs – that makes them look incredibly dumb.
I’m not saying the Red Sox hold all the cards, but I’d say they’re in the better position right now. They’re losing nothing by asking or by not letting Theo go.
i would drive barney to the airport myself if he had to be included in the compensation
Sox have the upper hand and can ask for anyone they want but the Cubs still have some pull. The Sox can’t “shop” Theo around. Its NOT a trade. Theo will be with the Cubs or the Sox. If the deal falls through the Sox will either pay him to sit out a year or pay a lame duck GM. Im guessing they don’t want to do either. As far as why the Cubs wouldnt give up Garza…read about last years trade. They gave up a TON to get Garza so why would they send him to the Sox after one year?
clearly written by a Sawx fan who has been drinking like a… like Jon Lester
Sox should be lucky to get ANYTHING for Theo… as far as “GMs not growing on trees” neither does all the money Theo lost on bust free agent signings.
Then why do the Cubs want to pay him twice that to do the same thing in Chicago?
You are on crack just like Lucchino.
1st off Epstein is gone as Red Sox GM November 1st. Period.
HENRY already announced Cherington will be the new GM.
Henry and Lucchino threw Epstein and Francona under the bus repeatedly over past 1+ years. Henry, Werner and Lucchino undermined Francona’s authority to manage the team when they told him he couldn’t bench high priced but underperforming stars and then gave the team benefits for thwarting Francona’s authority in the clubhouse with gifts and parties on the owners yacht and more.
The Red Sox ownership also made the final decision on every contract and the final responsibility falls on them. To say otherwise is a disingenuous and demeaning to the people they hired to ADVISE them. No wonder their team gave up on them.
Red Sox have to pay Epstein $3.7 million if he quits or if he is fired as a “bonus”. In other words a parting gift. The Cubs have offered to pay that $3.7 million plus some as compensation for Epstein which is MORE than a fair price.
If the Red Sox keep Epstein on payroll as VP of pencil sharpening for 2012 since Cherington IS the new GM in Boston, he gets $3 million in salary. Thats $6.7 million to prove a point. Only REAL losers would do that when it COULD be spent on signing prospects. And please dont try to trot out some lame excuse that the Red Sox have money to burn, no one that is sane wastes $6.7 million that could have been turned into a top prospect.
GMs DO grow on trees and there are alot of great options out there. Dipoto, Logan, Byrnes, and more are available. In fact the Cubs have a guy capable of being a decent GM in Randy Bush.
Not a single GM is worth a ML player, not even a utility infielder. That player cost more than the GM to develop and get to the ML, let alone his salary now.
Right now this is all about the jilted lovers, Lucchino and Henry saying F you Epstein, F you Cubs, we are not going to let you go someplace and win while we are in third place for years to come.
The Red Sox only leverage is having enough money to be total pricks and pay millions for Epstein to do absolutely nothing for a year. But doing that KILLS your franchise.
Sad state of affairs in Boston. Ortiz is gone. Papelbon is gone. They are stuck with Beckett, Lackey and their $31 million + per year for 3 more years + Matsuzaka for 2012. Youkilis and Ellsbury will be gone after 2012. No decent manager will want to go there after how they treated Francona and Epstein.
Really, this is better than Saturday Night Live!
so is watching paint dry…
you mean wall candy?
–half the people arguing
is there a team in the MLB who wouldnt ask for Garza?, of course they did they arent doing their jobs if they didnt
Keep tryin’ Sox. They’re bound to cave to your reasonable request. Hell, if you’re persistent enough, they might even throw in Wrigley Field. No, seriously. I think you guys should try it. After all, this is THE Theo Epstein.
In a related story, I finally got up the nerve to proposition Allison Brie last night. After she shot me down, I got a flurry of E-Mails from upset Cubs fans accusing me of frequent drug use.
Say you’re selling me a car and would be happy with getting $8,000 for it. I don’t think you ask me for $2.5 mil right out of the gate.
No, I ask you for $11-12K. You shoot high, but within the realm of possibility. $2.5 million would be roughly the equivalent to asking for the rights to their entire single A club.
Mostly on the same page, but to me asking for a team’s best pitcher (with two years left) that they just traded several of their good prospects for is more being ridiculous than aiming high. Asking for that CF that was their best prospect (but no sure thing) was aiming high, but this is way higher than that.
And by Allison Brie do you really mean your avatar.
This is as ridiculous as the Ozzie Guillen for Mike Stanton rumors of last off season.
Yo Ben: “White McNutt is a valuable prospect”
I think you meant “while” not “white”
Is Soriano still a 5 tool player
Of course Soriano is a 5 tool player- He can hit for average, hit for power, he can run, he has a hammer and a wrench.
He can hit for A average (not the letter grade, but a mathematical average). Technically, Sumo wrestlers run too. It might resemble a waddle but it fits the technical description.
Note to Red Sox
Theo dose not want you anymore
get over it move on
I swear…..I can literally here Henry signing “The Rain” when he (or whoever) asked for Garza. Google Oran “Juice” Jones’s “The Rain”.
“Life without me is like cornflakes without the milk!!! Don’t… touch that.. coat!!!”.
This is not a new story. It was reported the Sox wanted a major league player and the Cubs said no. It was then reported last friday that they had moved on to a minor league deal. No news here excepth Garza’s name.
yeah, so because we found out the name… then it IS news
Dude….if it had been almost any other mlb’er on the 25 other than Garza, Castro or Soto you might have a point. But Garza? Cmon.
no just a tool
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Silly Red Sox, Trix are for kids
actually it’s something a whore does for money
no just a tool
This thing is turning into a big joke. It cost other teams multiple players when they hire someone away from another team–and the Sox can’t get one minor leaguer from the Cubs for Theo AND some staff members? Ridiculous. The Sox should just walk away, send Theo home for the year, and move on with Cherington. Some people make a big deal out of the $7 million it would cost the team to do that, but if you consider that Theo has cost Henry $500Million in bad contracts, and he’s a BILLIONAIRE—$7 Mil to “ice” Theo would be “milk money.” And what’s Theo still doing going to work for the Sox every day? I swear the Sox “brain trust” is missing both parts of that term. Also, what’s taking so long to get this done? This isn’t rocket science.
There’s a difference between asking for someone fairly high up and then asking for the best pitcher on the team. It’s like going to see a car from craigslist that is listed for 10k and walking up to the guy and saying, “I’ll give you 1000” at that point, the guy may just say “go f yourself” You can come in looking for the best deal but, if this is what Boston fans have to look forward to in negotiations, your team will be worse than the 2011 Cubs.
This is the first negotiation job for Ben Cherington as their new GM. If this is the way that he is going to negotiate then the Red Sox are screwed as long as he is GM. No wonder they are trying so hard to keep Theo atleast he is competant.
Lucchino is handling the negotiations.
the red sox own the car here. the cubs already junked their old one and told all of their friends about the sweet ride they bought. now they have to pay for it or go rent a daewoo
garza is a ridiculous thing to ask for, but so is everything scott boras has ever demanded. his success confirms that it’s a viable (if obnoxious) negotiating tactic
Red Sox=Lunacy, no disrespect.
Red Sox have become the laughingstocks of baseball.
Saying Theo = Garza is worse than saying Carl Crawford and John Lackey are grossly underpaid.
The red sox should atleast get Jackson in return. Garza for Theo is pretty even bc they would have Theo for 4 yrs and he effects the entire team. Garza effects the team every 5th day. Also I’m not sure but wouldn’t garza be a FA before Theo’s new contract is up? The red sox should get more teams involved in this. But to say the least we should receive Jackson at the minimum. Hell, whitesox got marlins 4/5th best propsects for Ozzie. We can atleast get 2 top 5 from the cubs.
“The red sox should get more teams involved in this.”
Wow. This was directly above my post and I was forced to read this. You mean to tell me this isn’t enough entertainment for you? Wow.
if they got anthopolous involved they could make it a pay-per-view event. i’d do it
Theo to Cubs, McNutt to Red Sox, Garza to Blue Jays
You know what would be something kinda awesome at this point? If the Cubs walked away altogether, the Cubs find someone else and then the Sox are left with a somewhat out-the-door-unhappy-GM. lol.
They’ll just pay him to sit home. I don’t think they’ll care much.
If they are willing to pay him nearly $7 million to sit at home they care ALOT. Sounds like a jilted lover more than a good business decision.
Any wonder why the Red Sox stunk it up to end the season?
The Sox are playing with house money here. Epstein is in their outlay for next year either way. They owe Theo nothing. Not a thing. Lucchino is the CEO of the RED SOX charged with making transactions that benefit the RED SOX as much as possible. Giving away the most valuable and coveted piece on the negotiating table is not in the best interest of the RED SOX.
Magnifying the Cubs stupidity in this is that they’re willing to PAY for Epstein’s contract which is in the $4-7 million range. That actually would cost MORE than just shipping Brett Jackson or a prospect that’s worth something to the Red Sox. The Red Sox have cash, they would like prospects. That’s the price. Sox should hold the line.
@Century cos Disqus effed up.
You know what would be awesome? If you just stayed off Red Sox message boards. We get it. You hate the Sox, lurve the Yankees. Good for you. But you don’t ever add anything to the conversation. Go ask Yanksfans78 (or whatever his name is) how to be a Yankee fan and manage to make reasonable comments. It is possible.
I love your posting history.
negotiation 101. asking for something of high value (garza) knowing you wont get it only to make the slightly lower value (top prospects which you wanted all along) more likely.
“I will extend to you an offer of $1…MILLION dollars a year for $10 years”.
“OK…….$1 MILLION and two dollars”.
“$1 million and three”?
A possible future conversation between Pujols’ agent and a Sox representative.
talking about trading not free agency. completely different. way off.
I understand the difference. The logic is the same, just in reverse. Start off asking something ridiculous and then working your away towards something allegedly reasonable.
oh i see what you did there, i misread your response. i apologize. i will like your response now to show my respect.
This isn’t two six-year olds trading baseball cards. Everyone involved is well-versed in high-end negotiations and are eminently aware of the value of each player being discussed. Asking for Garza was either a delaying tactic or an outright insult.
Cubs having been driving a junker for years they can wait another year for that nice car if the dealer is going to be a dick
If they want to be ugly about it they can keep Theo, pay him and tell him to be the pitchers beer runner this year while Ben runs things. Then the Cubs have to name a G.M. not named Theo.
“Wish we had a Gm to do that for us when we were using OUR choice of “rally” favors”.
-Straw, Dr. K and Kev Mitch
Laughable. The Red Sox are really pissed. There is no precedence that would warrant Garza as compensation. They don’t even trade managers for major leaguers, let alone front office personnel. I’m not saying Garza is untouchable once the trade is done, but as a chip for Epstein, it shouldn’t even be brought up. That’s just stupid. Red Sox know it and they did it because they are angry.
That said, I don’t think a major league player is out of the question. But the league doesn’t want to set such a precedent. Understandable.
Lou Pineilla was traded for Randy Winn a few years ago. At the time, Randy Winn was a .300 hitter with an .802 OPS. A comparable player for the Cubs that could interest the Sox would be Marlon Byrd. He could take over RF for 1 year until Kalish is ready and the Sox could trade Reddick in a separate trade package for a SP. Probably won’t happen, but its rediculous to think that Theo is worth just a prospect.
Great point, I stand corrected. But it is rare, isn’t that the only time, apart from manager for manager? My point was that it almost never happens and it has never happened for front office personnel. MLB just do not want to set a precedent like that, and I don’t think this trade will either.
Both sides need to get this Epstein deal done…neither side can really afford to let it drop.
For the Cubs, that’s one lost year of rebuilding…not to mention the front office having to tell the fans that Theo’s not coming after all…more disappointment (as if 100+ years isn’t enough).
For the Red Sox, Epstein is already pretty much gone, and Cherington is the new GM. Keeping Epstein would just cost them money, and created an awkward situation for 2012.
In the end, the Sox won’t get Garza or two top prospects. But they will get one decent to top prospect.
For the Cubs, that’s one lost year of rebuilding…not to mention the
front office having to tell the fans that Theo’s not coming after
all…more disappointment (as if 100+ years isn’t enough).
Whats 1 more year the cubs have waited 103 years now so 1 more wont break the back so to say.
In the end, the Sox won’t get Garza or two top prospects. But they will get one decent to top prospect
Yes that is fair if this will be done. The cubs should pick about 5 of their better prospects and list them for the bosox to chose 1 from the list. This stuff is getting as bad as the beltran rumors from the trade deadline.
If Ozzie Guillen just got traded for 2 top prospects, then why should Theo only be traded for 1 decent prospect. Ozzie is an average manager and Theo is a legendary GM, with way more authority to the organization than a manager or player. Theo affects every transaction, such as drafting Pedroia, Ellsbury, Lester, Buchholz, Bard, Papelbon…trading for Schilling, Beckett, Lowell, Gonzalez, Martinez…signing Ortiz, Mueller, Millar, Aceves, Beltre…but its okay, the Cubs can just sit in last place with Soriano and Zambrano for another year.
the marlins were TAMPERING when they were trying to convince Guillen to move to miami. the white sox called them out on the TAMPERING and then rather than have this be a matter for the comish to blacken the eye’s of the marlins and bring the team into a bad light just as they are rumored to be expanding payroll to actually field a relavent team to play in their new stadium for 2012 they got caught and had to severely overpay for the hack manager ozzie guillen rather than be in trouble with the league.
Now seeing a lil bit more ofwhats going on in miami I can guess that it was probably Guillen that contacted the marlins about the mgr’s job. Guillen will put the marlins in a bad position again with the Carlos Zambrano TAMPERING that is currently going on and I hope that the cubs then have the ability to trade Z to the marlins for a maple baseball bat and a bag of baseballs and the cubs are free from that albatross contract and the marlins get penalized for their TAMPERING once and for all.
TAMPERING is very very bad for baseball and Im glad that J Henry GAVE THE CUBS PERMISSION TO TALK WITH THEO so they are not TAMPERING.
The redsox dont want theo and the cubs do want him just work this out today so this is finally over with so theo can start making the marlins pay for Z.
O yeah let’s just make ridiculous assumptions about things going on behind the scenes that we have absolutely no knowledge or proof about. Just because you readarumor written by. The media doesn’t mean its true… I guess randy Winn for Lou piniella was tampering too.
Wow what pricks The Sox are for that. I mean we all know that they should just give Theo to The Cubs because they haven’t won in 103 years and people should cater to them because they have terrible owners.
Ricketts are terrible owners? Spoken from someone who has no idea what they are talking about.
I mean, I’m sure they knew they weren’t going to get Garza for Theo, I’m sure things like this happen all the time in negotiations that are similar to this matter, we just don’t hear about it. But hey, it gives all the red sox haters a reason to continue their hating, I suppose.
I mean, yeah, the Royals asked the Yankees for Phil Hughes in exchange for Reggie Sanders way back.
But it’s different. The only team Theo wants to go to is the Cubs. There’s probably language in his Red Sox contract about him having to have a certain amount of power, powers which he’s certainly going to retain if he goes back to the Sox as a lame-duck GM (lol to the people who think the Sox can actually ‘bench’ him for a year). So the Sox REALLY don’t want that kerfuffle on their hands. Not to mention the PR nightmare this team has already created by demanding insulting amounts of compensation for their lame-duck GM. If the Red Sox end up torpedoing this deal, NO ONE will want to work for this ownership group. Or at least they’d think really hard about how they treat all their employees. Yeah, Cubs fans might be pissed, but what’s so different about that? They’ve been pissed since they were born. Doesn’t change a thing.
Anyway, this isn’t really about Theo’s overall value as a GM. It’s about his value as a GM for one year, plus on the other side the Red Sox saving $7M, plus their ability to move on and not have a nearly-useless lame-duck GM for a year. Plus the PR nightmare that will ensue if they don’t get a deal done. Honestly, that equates to some millions in cash or some prospect the Cubs don’t have major plans for, pretty much only as a courtesy.
“White McNutt” ha.
I know the Cubs only have around 75 million on the books,outside of 5-7 arbitration cases.That gives Epstein alot of room to improve the core of this team.Lets say that Ricketts sets payroll at 145 million,or even 140.Add 15 million to books for arbitration,and that leaves 50 million to spend.And for sure Big-Zzz and Dempster next year,thats nearly 30 million.I say we could be competitive in 2,and contenders in three.My two cents fellas.
IMHO what it comes down to is the Sox want Lackey with Theo in Chicago with his contract that Theo negotiated for ZamBran’s Contract. In Essence a cash deal that probably amounts to a $20 M. cash settlement with the Cubs eating the $20 M of Lackey’s contract.
I’m sure Theo has a deal pending with the Marlins for Zambrano once the air clears.
The Sox think they can put up with Zambrano for one year and perhaps beyond as perhaps their 5 th starter.
John Henry and Larry L. may not look like the “suits” you might find in Chicago but they know what they want–eating $7-8 M is chump change for JH.
In your ramble there is zambrano to be traded to the marlins or the red sox?
“White McNutt is a valuable prospect, he’s not as desirable as Garza.”
No need to get racial about it.