The Red Sox are "believed to be focused" on Cubs pitching prospect Trey McNutt in the Theo Epstein compensation talks, writes Patrick Mooney of CSNChicago.com. Mooney says Cubs center field prospect Brett Jackson is "untouchable and not part of the discussions," while prospects such as Josh Vitters and Matt Szczur are considered unlikely. A source close to the talks said the Red Sox have been asking for "ridiculous combinations," writes Kevin Goldstein of Baseball Prospectus.
McNutt, 22, posted a 4.55 ERA, 6.2 K/9, 3.7 BB/9, and 0.5 HR/9 with 120 hits allowed in 95 innings for the Cubs' Double-A affiliate this year. Baseball America ranked him second among Cubs prospects heading into the season and he was a consensus top 70 prospect in the game. McNutt dealt with blister problems and bruised ribs in a disappointing 2011 season, and is currently pitching in the Arizona Fall League. ESPN's Keith Law scouted him there, noting "great velocity but well-below-average command and control."
The World Series, scheduled to begin Wednesday, seems to serve as a deadline for the talks between the Cubs and Red Sox. That is the latest point the Red Sox expect a resolution, writes Michael Silverman of the Boston Herald. One major holdup is determining which front office members Epstein can take with him to Chicago. Silverman's informed speculation suggests Red Sox vice president of baseball operations Brian O'Halloran, special assistant to the GM Dave Finley, and head athletic director and assistant director of medical services Mike Reinold "could be part of Epstein's request." Senior vice president of baseball operations Josh Byrnes and assistant GM Jason McLeod could be candidates to come from the Padres.
What are the odds that a new argument gets made here rather than a rehash of the last several threads on the overall Epstein to the Cubs theme?
I think both sides would be happy with McNutt. But let’s argue anyway…
I really wish I knew what was wrong in Red Sox land these days. Despite my obvious bias against the Red Sox, I do not fault the Cubs over the way they’ve handled this. My three year old niece handles “time-out” or punishment better than this crew.
Did you really just compare the discussion over compensation for losing a GM to a three year old getting a time-out or punishment? ummmm……..ok, I don’t follow
What I was implying was in the interest of preserving some credibility or saving faith with the fans, whichever your choose, the Red Sox could have just taken some cash like a week ago and been done with this. A three year old knows when its time to move on and usually has ice cream on the agenda. Does the Red Sox front office even have an agenda at the moment? Serious question.
It would appear the agenda is to acquire something of value for losing their GM. Is it that hard to figure out?
Well that’s what I’m saying babba. “Is it that hard to figure out?” No it isn’t. Especially when the Boston Media is having a field day with this. The Red Sox would have been wise to take a few million, move on and start doing other business. Instead now the criticism to follow “oh we didn’t get enough with this prospect” or what where they thinking and then 2 weeks goes by.
so take less value to avoid media scrutiny is your solution to this?
“ESPN’s Keith Law scouted him there, noting “great velocity but well-below-average command and control.”
So basically the guy can’t pitch. Your perception of value is relative to what? I personally see more value in taking cash and moving on.
No one cares about the Red Sox-Yankee rivalry since 2004. Red Sox fans don’t care, Yankee fans don’t care. Why do you still care? Have you been in a coma? Drop your Red Sox obsession, it’s not healthy.
What in the heck does that have to do with anything?
No-one has cared about the Sox
Except Kieth Law doesn’t do any research about how the guy was hurt after a collision or battled blisters all season that contributed to his lack of control.
“Does the Red Sox front office even have an agenda at the moment? Serious question.”
“‘Is it that hard to figure out?’ No it it isn’t”
I haven’t seen a faster flipflop on something since Romney. Is that you, Mitt?
Theo isn’t going back to them so take what the Cubs give you. It should be a low level minor leaguer that the Cubs haven’t spent time with.
And as a result of the media scrutiny last offseason, the Yankees should’ve immediately caved in tio Derek Jeter’s demands and offered him another 10 year deal at about $20 million per.
Because media scrutiny should be an organization’s top priority in ALL matters.
Last off-season was tough. While you guys were the WS picks, we had to deal with Lee, and Cashman, and “can he pitch,” and Pettitte, and age, and Jeter, and CoLOLon and Garcia, and blahblahblah. Let’s face it, not even Jesus could have saved us.
And by Jesus, I mean Montero, of course.
This off-season, it’s all yours, my friend. In the end, it always turns out fine, but it is the media’s job to sensationalize small stories to get people to watch, listen, read.
Enjoy.
Yeah, the irony was not lost upon me. I actually saw a Yankee fan on here harping all over it and reveling and how the high and mighty Yankees were above such drama and all I could think was “dude, short memory much? This was you guys last year, complete with GM maybe leaving soon drama.”
In fairness, I was all over that stuff last year (Though not the worst, I was amongst those saying don’t write them off, but man does it stink to be the Yankees this offseason), so I suppose this is comeuppance. It’s okay, though, we’ll sign Webb and Vasquez and dominate next season.
hahaaha well played
And take cash when owernships pockets overflowin. Hows that gonna decrease scrutiny.
Give him to Boston – McNutt is fair compensation. And then END THIS.
Give then McNutt as long as Theo can take want assistants he wants.
as long as Lackey is his assistant.
My first thought here was “yeah, just throw a suit on Lackey and tell them he’s a front office staffer.”
My second thought was John Lackey in a suit.
My third thought was “scratch that, they’ll never buy it, I imagine that even in person, Lackey in a suit would look like a bad photoshop.”
My third thought was of Kit Kat bars, but that’s neither here nor there.
My fifth thought was whether I should learn to count or if I should play off the fact I said third twice as having to do with alternate timelines. Fauxbsessions and I are as yet undecided.
Take Epstein, keep McNutt and sign agreement he cant take ant Red Sox front office personnel for 2 yrs. I’d be estatic!
Fine with me.
Good solution. Epstein can use these guys to channel talent to the Cubs for the next couple of years. Seems pretty obvious that Epstein would have asked if they wanted to move to the Cub organization before he started to bargain for them. Pretty obvious they said yes and want out of the Sox organization.
that sounds fair
Only if you give us all of your entire minor league system, and pay off the rest of Crawford and Lackey’s contracts.
Where do you guys (Red Sox) get off asking for McNutt?!!
Hehe, it’s actually a fair trade. Of course, you could have given them Marshall and had this all be over with 2-3 days ago. But God forbid if we give up Marshall! He is the core of this team! If he only started ball games, he’d pitch no-hitters with regularity.
that would have been perfect
Why are you convinced that the cubs will not resign Marshall?
because jim hendry was fired
“because jim hendry was fired”
This is why you think that Sean Marshall will not be resigned?
I dont really know what to say to that except for Marshall is a great lefty bull pen specialist/long reliever/spot closer.
He is well worth his money on a good teams bull pen. I realize the cubs have not been a good team since 2008 but he is also a career long cub. I would resign him as a GM as long as his price isnt any higher than 4 mil per year and that is if he stays effective as a pitcher. It is not outta line to convert Marshall back to a starter and give him a real chance to start for a year before his contract is expired.
marshall isn’t a lefty specialist; he’s one of the best setup men in baseball. he is going to cost major money and years to re-sign and only hendry would be foolish enough to commit those resources with a rebuilding team already paying their closer $10M
“as long as his price isn’t any higher than $4M”
jessie crain got $4.5M last year. matt thornton got close to $6M and he wasn’t even a free agent. benoit, who isn’t as good as marshall and is 5 years older, got $5.5M over three years. 4 million for marshall is pipe dream
well you make a good point ,maybe marshall should be traded but the cubs should get the prospects not the sox
Marmol doesnt get 10 mil per season its more like 6-7 mil per
in 2012 marmol makes 10 million big ones
mike adams had better numbers than marshall and 3 times as much time left on his contract than marshall will. he only brought back 2 B prospects, so marshall isn’t likely to bring back more than one b prospect. the cubs are offering the red sox two B prospects as it is. marshall isn’t a part of the cubs’ future, prospects are
in reality, it’s not going to happen. but it matches up better than you might think
2013 that should say. 2012 is $7M
Yeah instead they should ask if it’s okay if Theo brought the head janitor, right?
Relax bud. It’s not like McNutt is a great prospect anyway.
You don’t experience a lot of sarcasm, do you?
The Internet kills Sarcasm to much to actually be used most of the time. It took a while for me to get what you were saying too.
Yeah, I know… Sarcasm doesn’t work much in text. I’ll try to tone down my disenchantment with the Cubs ability to constantly overvalue their prospects.
Overvaluing prospects is the best way to convince other teams to trade for them! Personally, I always thought the Cubs “farm system” involved talking up a lot of players just enough to entice others to trade for them. Hendry’s best trick was to turn “who-the-hell-is-this-guy” into something another team would take.
Name a position player that came through the Cubs farm system you’d like to see on the team (who isn’t currently).
Now do the same for a pitcher–someone on another team you really wish the Cubs hadn’t traded so he could be pitching for them now.
I don’t know about you all, but I just can’t think of that many guys. And the ones I can think of are well past their prime (or never had one).
So, tell me again why the Red Sox want a “prospect” from the Cubs? Oh right, ’cause they’re bitter and angry and are trying desperately to get “something real” in return.
HA HA, joke’s on them.
Better take the money and run, Red Sox; the Cubs cannot give you fair compensation for what you lost at GM.
They don’t have it.
That was Hendry’s strength. Blowing smoke. To put it nicely, he was a personable guy who you couldn’t help liking. If you strip all that away though, he was a terrible GM. Not Jerry Angelo bad, but close. It’s like he had no idea how to draft or develop guys. The problem is now that the guys left over from Hendry’s staff are the same guys that helped draft and develop these guys. I wish you could bring in an impartial scouting department here, and this would get solved a heck of a lot faster.
My bad. I’ve posted here for awhile, so I’ve experienced plenty. 🙂 I’ll chalk it up to Monday morning.
No worries, man. I suffer from that myself, but I had a little extra pep in my step today because of the Bears-Vikes game. Hehe.
“Yeah instead they should ask if it’s okay if Theo brought the head janitor, right?”
Since when was Lackey’s name being bantered about 😉
Not only is that fair, but Jackson Should be instead included. Think of what’s going on here. Theo signed a contract, and the Red Sox are letting him out of it early. When you sign a Contract, you are agreeing to work for that amount of years, with that team. If the Cubs want their guy, pay up. End of story.
In no reasonable vision of this “trade” is Jackson even remotely going to be or should he ever be considered “reasonable” in a request for Epstein and/or other front office personel..
The Cubs and Red Sox are at a standoff—Cubs want Theo and have him agreed to a contract. The Red Sox want prospects but dont have strong leverage cause if he stays the Red Sox have a lame duck GM that will leave after next year with a 4 million dollar bonus on top his 3.5 million salary. Bottom line get 2 mid level prospects or if they insist on a high level prospect Theo get to take what assistants he wants.
Jackson? you’re NUTS. We’ll make Busch the interim GM for 2012, hire Epstein AND the people he wants next year and give you NOTHING! That’s all the Bosox need is a p’o’d GM sitting around for another year.
I kinda of agree. The Cubs have waited over a hundred years for a World Series winner what is one more year? If the Cubs threaten to back off it will stick the Red Sox with a lame duck GM, a disgruntled staff and an additional $4 million bill.
“If the Cubs want their guy, pay up. ”
Both clubs are in agreement on this, but not on what “pay up” should mean. To compare, if the Brewers want to keep Fielder, sign him. End of story.
This story is starting to get really old……
Amen, the Cubs are so devoid of talent, it really doesn’t matter who they give up. The only untouchables are Castro, Garza and maybe Brett Jackson.
I don’t know what is taking so long.
If we are so devoid of talent then why do you want them?
Better to get something than nothing.
Because Epstein will be our GM and in 2-3 years time, they can be an integral part of playoff runs…
The team is devoid of talent below the major league level, and the major league team is a below average team with a few bright spots. Just because we haven’t drafted well nor developed many quality players in years doesn’t mean that we can’t do it under Epstein. After all, that’s why Ricketts brought him in.
In the upper levels of the minors yes but the Cubs have some good prospects in the lower leverls, I could see the Cubs giving up Soto and bringing up Castillo.
I agree, with the right player development, they could get some value from the lower levels, but that’s all a crap shoot anyway. If it weren’t for Castillo’s injury, he probably would have unseated Soto sooner, so that’s a good point.
However, I don’t think the Red Sox want Soto, but even if they did, the Cubs have inexplicable made the major league roster off-limits. Marshall is somebody the Red Sox want, somebody we don’t have in our plans after 2012, yet he’s off limits.
We don’t want Soto. Someone brought this up the other day, but Soto’s older, more expensive and he actually had a worse 2011 than Saltalamacchia.
I can see it now: 9th inning rally bongs
Que?
I heard Lester made an admission to drinking “rally beers”, and Geovany is known to like the ganja. Put the two of them together and we’ve got rally bongs in the clubhouse next year.
I’m glad Lester came out and gave that interview as it was pretty much exactly what I figured it was: a few of the pitchers having a beer on what was effectively their off day. I liked how he basically said “a single beer in the ninth isn’t going to make us pitch poorly, we just stunk on our own. The End.”
I’d love to know what percentage of people complaining about the two of them have ever had a beer at lunch on a work day. This is about the most idiotic scandal ever. If Ruth, Wells and Boggs are any indication, I think the problem we had was that they weren’t drinking beer and eating fried chicken frequently enough, if anything.
Also, I get a kick out of the fact he mentioned it was Popeye’s specifically. Them ordering KFC makes no sense considering the proximity and quality difference (The closest KFC to Fenway is a health inspector with an itchy trigger finger’s dream come true).
Well of course it was Popeye’s- but the critical question still remains, spicy or not?
Yeah imagine being a die hard Red Sox fan. Seeing the Red Sox be the Best team in baseball for three months only for the first and last month was horrendous. Know that if One of the games we trailed after the 7th inning had been a comeback win we would have made the playoffs. Know that in a 162 game season there were at least 30 chances for us to win that one game to make it, of course we didn’t know it (at the time). Know that your team barely made it in with a ridiculous run and now are in the WS. Enjoy that and if you don’t want to hear it, stop visiting the website.
Yea, it’s weird how MLBTR is the only place in the world that discusses this.
I never said MLBTR shouldn’t post it or that it wasn’t relevant. Glad you’re happy though 🙂
Hey as a cubs fan I want to say congrats to the cards team and their fans for the improbable run they have had this post season. I actually want to see them win it all as in my eyes all bets are off. The cards beat the team with the best record in baseball in the 1st round and they beat the team that won their own division in the 2nd round so go cards.
How about you go say that on a Cardinals page
How about I say it to a cards fan. I will congratulate them where ever and when ever I chose to as they have been very impressive this month. If you dont like it dont read it.
Then click on a different link, whiner.
Funny because the cubs were written off as having no prospects to help them in the future.
Why would the cubs even want to bring the red sox head athletic trainer or assistant director of medical services with all the injuries the red sox have had?
Several injuries doesn’t necessarily indicate a bad medical staff. It indicates bad luck and pains that a human being can go through when they run out on a baseball field and play 162 times. It’s not like their trainers beat their legs with crowbars, bud.
To be fair, 60% of all Red Sox injuries are J.D. Drew.
Dice-K disagrees.
I got it. Theo can go, no compensation. He just has to take his last 3 free agent signings (plus their contracts) with him. Good luck Crawford, Jenks and Lackey.
I’m pretty sure just about any team would be willing to take Crawford. One bad season out of an entirely great career does not mean a player is terrible…..
He will be terrible, according to history. Just ask Lugo, Renteria, Jenks, Lackey, JD Drew, Matsuzaka, Clement, Smoltz, Mendoza, Hinske, Penny. The Cubs are seriously gonna give up prospects for this guy?
So what you’re say is that just because the Red Sox signed him, he will be terrible? OK.
What I’m saying is he has a notorious track record for finding FAs who look great on paper and never end up producing here. Crawford’s 1st year holds true to this so far.
To spin that “what you’re say” is that just about any team would take Crawford’s 6yrs and 128mil left. Sox outbid everyone to get him last yr, and only paid 14mil in the first year of contract. I would think his stock is down, and the bulk of his contract remains. But “just about any team would be willing to take him” at this point. OK.
If they look good on paper that means that they put up goos stats, which means they played good. So how is that his fault?
Aceves was signed more recently than either Jenks or Lackey and he signed about four or five other guys between Jenks and Lackey.
The Cubs are proving to be a tough McNutt to crack
This made me laugh out loud while sitting in class, haha.
As that old Chinese proverb states, “No tickie, no laundry!”
You want man under contract cubbies, you got to pay up..
Man cannot serve two masters…..
You must pay, or go away
That was delightfully racist!
They’re talking about what the Cubs must “pay”, have you even been paying attention? Or have you just determined the Red Sox are entitled to Jackson?
Funny how you read things. I didn’t see one mention of Jackson in that post, yet that’s all you took out of it.
Obvious why they’d focus on McNutt…I mean look what happened to their season due to lack of pitching depth. That being said, look at what happened to the Cubs’ season due to lack of pitching depth (and lack of everything else!). I am glad the Cubs are coveting Jackson, but I really don’t think they should part with McNutt either if, especially, Theo’s focus will be on player development. SIGHZ.
The basic notion of not giving up pitching, I agree with. I would like to see the Cubs give up Sean Marshall. I understand they are going to get draft picks for him after next season, but it’s a better option than giving up McNutt. Having said that, I don’t think we should overvalue McNutt either. He can turn out great, but he can also fizzle out. His stint in AA doesn’t jump of the page. There are a lot of pitchers with great stuff that can’t develop secondary pitches and has no command. It’s a tough price to pay (a promising 22-year-old pitching prospect), but it’s not unreasonable either.
If McNutt will let Theo bring staff with him, I’d say pull the trigger. I think Jackson is more ready for the majors anyway and the old Cubs management has a better record with hitters than pitchers (albeit not by much).
marshall, you fools!
Nobody is listening to us! I just don’t understand why he is off limits… Make ZERO sense.
I’d love to play poker against you guys.
“Now listen I know that almost any other team allows lateral advancement for employees under contract but PLEASE take our best bullpen arm.” “No, please stop allowing me to negotiate competently, I don’t want to save him to trade at the deadline for a boatload of real players.”
a boatload of players just like mike adams (who had three times as much team control remaining) netted last year
a third of the team control, a third of the haul. that’s one B prospect at best, which is at best equal to what the cubs would get back from type A compensation
that itself is approximately what they’re proposing to give the red sox anyway (two non-top prospects)
but yeah, good point. miles apart. boatloads of real players
Let’s be real. You’re right about the fact that keeping Marshall can lead to trading for prospect or draft picks. But that’s his only value. Epstein is not going to resign him. So his value to this organization depends on how he does next year. If he regresses, we get nothing (maybe a draft pick) when he leaves. If he stays on par with his previous numbers, that’s great.
Here’s the thing though. Number 1, why do we need a good bullpen arm when we won’t compete? He might be the difference between 72-90 and 74-88 at best.
Second, why give up prospects when you can give up a guy who you know? This guy is a quality bullpen arm, nothing more. They are a dime-a-dozen. McNutt could be our next Sean Marshall, for crying out loud.
Lastly, I didn’t know notsureifsrs and myself were at the negotiating table. But even if I was (and I hope the Cubs are doing this), you can withhold Marshall and then give him to the Sox when you really need to break the stalemate.
Don’t be one of Hendry’s disciples! Don’t overvalue guys. Especially bullpen arms. Nobody in that bullpen is untouchable, not even Marmol (who Hendry brilliantly signed for 3 years). Who led the league in blown saves? Oh yeah. But maybe Marshall is the next Mariano Rivera or Trevor Hoffman. Can’t get rid of Marshall, can we? Then we’d be a losing team… Oh wait. We already are!
I’ve seen houses built in less time.
You really need to move out of shantytown.
Occupy Boston?
I’ve seen Occupy Boston, I’m not sure I’d even count it as a shantytown.
Saw Vitters on TV a few times here (they broadcast FSL games here locally) when he was with Daytona and maybe it was just te games that *I* saw, but his bat looked really slow to me, plus seemed to have a tendancy to chase a lot of off speed stuff away, moreso than many other young kids that are rated high it would seem and not knocking the kid, nor Cubbies here.
has anyone else seen this guy a bunch, or really familiar with him? Just curious since remember Cubs were super high on him last summer.
I haven’t seen him, but the book on him seems to be that he swings at everything and never walks. He’s capable of a decent average, but because of his unwillingness to walk the OBP will be relatively low and will fluctuate a lot with ups and downs in BA. And of course the power is typically regarded as below-average for the position.
All that said, he just turned 22 so it’s not impossible that the power, in particular, picks up. I’m thoroughly unconvinced about him though.
I saw him play 12-15 games at Tennessee (AA). Although he had some strong numbers it seems he could be relied upon to strike out or ground in a DP when runners were on base. I know the Cubs think he is a future major leaguer with great upside. I just hope he proves that in a cubbie uniform not Beantown.
Based on Baseball America’s rankings of Cubs minor leaguers, and if the Sox can’t get Jackson—they should go with Brandon Guyer. His numbers look good and he’s suppoed to be good defensively.
He was in the Matt Garza deal and now plays for Tampa Bay
He was in the Matt Garza deal and now plays for Tampa Bay
He was in the Matt Garza deal and now plays for Tampa Bay
There seems to be an echo in here here here
Wait, who does he play for again?
I heard he plays for Tampa Bay and was in the Matt Garza deal.
guyer was traded to tampa. he actually even played on the big league club in tampa against boston in september
go. back. to. WEEI.
How about this Chris Archer kid? Maybe him?
Does this mean the Cubs are gonna bust a (Mc) Nutt? Ok, ok….in all seriousness…fair deal, get it done and we won’t miss McNutt. DO IT!
McNutt into their Red Sox.
Just what the Sox need, another guy with great stuff and no control…
Any bets this guy’s teammates call him Three Balls?
Either way, it’s a great porn name.
Lol. Just last night we were talking about Wang. So what do they do? They throw us a “McNutt” wtf did they expect?
But the big question is, can McNutt leave the bench during the third inning and drink beer in the clubhouse?
Best news for Sox fans is that Theo will take the medical team to Chicago. Imagine how many injuries the Cubs will have seeing as it seemed like every Sox player had a clock on him in which he was going to be on the DL.
McNutt is still a gross overpay. Jay Jackson and Dae-Eun Rhee for Theo and Lars Anderson is the most fair proposal I have seen thus far.
gross overpay?
Like it or not, the Cubs have all the negotiating power. There is no precedent for compensation when someone is getting promoted. We are only giving compensation because he has to be released from his contract. McNutt had an injury riddled off year but he was still a BA top 50 prospect. No front office person is worth that. So yes, gross overpay.
ummmm NO, look at what CHW got for OZZIE…. GM>manager
sox have the power, because if the sox don’t get a deal they like, they can hold on to him, the cubs? nope, they need him more then the sox. sox already have a GM in place, so we can hang on to him and pay him to stay home…. Sox will get what they want because they hold the power, and the cubs don’t
Your kidding right? You just argued against yourself. They can’t take Theo back at this point.
actually they can, they can keep him and pay him to stay home
Do you realize how ridiculous this is/sounds? No one wants to pay Theo 3mm to watch baseball on tv.
In all likelihood we’ll be paying Lackey $16 million a year to rot on the bench for an NL team. What’s another $3MM to prove a point? We were content to pay Renteria like $30 or 40 million to make the ASG as a Brave, why would we let $3 whole million be the motivating factor here? We’re not the Marlins, we’re one of the world’s biggest sports markets.
While true, that’s the sort of statement that leads to a lot of hate directed towards Sox fans. Wouldn’t you rip Century if he said that?
No because it’s the truth. The Red Sox have shown a willingness to eat money (even considerably more money than what Epstein would cost), so saying that they have leverage because of their willingness to sit on it and pay him money to do nothing isn’t anything more than stating facts.
Make no mistake, the Red Sox have the leverage here simply by holding
the most desirable asset in the negotiation. That’s business 101. Adding
to the difficulty for the Cubs is that Ricketts has now wasted more
than a week with the promise of a new savior of a general manager, yet
in reality, he doesn’t have him in the fold.
Theo is a wonderfully talented general manager, but the Red Sox lose
little here. Ben Cherington, one of the brightest candidates for the
role in all of baseball, is set to become the new general manager with
the Red Sox, and the people and processes there are still in place. The
Cubs are the team with no general manager and a World Series about to
start, during which time they cannot announce a hiring. The Cubs are
twisting in the wind here while the Red Sox have already all but moved
on. Of course they still want Epstein as their general manager, but they’re also resigned to the fact that it’s just not in the cards, while
knowing that the Cubs have put all of their eggs in this particular
basket without looking at the bill.
– kevin goldstein today, from the article in this very post
Cubs can always walk away, not that I think they will. They will probably cave like usual but I still think McNutt would be a gross overpay.
I agree
and what will the cubs tell all their fans when they don’t get THEO after all the promises that they would? “sorry cubs fans, we didn’t want to pay what it would cost to get THEO from the sox so we will go a cheeper route?”
I think most Cubs fans who really know what going on would be fine with that. I would rather go with someone like Rick Hahn than give up McNutt for Theo.
You have that backwards, Vivid_Reality. The Cubs don’t have a GM; the Red Sox have a GM and an assistant ready to take on the role waiting in the wings. The Red Sox can call the Cubs bluff leaving them without a GM for a year. The Sox can hold out for as long as they have to because they control the asset in the deal.
You have control of half the assets. The Non asset McNutt was a top 50 prospect last year.
…and followed that up by having his control issues exposed by more advanced hitters. McNutt’s got velocity and not much else going for himself at the moment. Granted there is room for developmental growth and improvement but it seems like McNutt is a long-shot to reach his ceiling at this point in time.
I can’t help but wonder if anyone on here actually keeps up with the Cubs farm system and evaluates the players that they so joyously bash on here. If they did, they would notice that McNutt was not having problems in AA with “advanced hitters” until he had a collision that led to a bruised rib cage and was forced to sit out of the rotation for several weeks. Lets keep in mind that Jackson was sent to Arizona to rehab for a pinky injury but McNutt had to stay in Tennessee. Anyone who knows anything about pitching would know that sending him to Arizona while he was on the DL list would’ve helped him immensely instead of keeping him on the bench.
With that said, regardless of whether he’s traded to Boston or stays with the Cubs he’s going to come back from this off season and surprise some people. Keep in mind nobody expected anything from him in his first season either. Let people doubt him and make fun of his name. He’s been quoted as saying he likes being the underdog.
Just out of curiosity……was there a stipulation in the approval for the Cubs to interview Theo that the Sawks receive compensation if Theo decides to leave the Sawks and sign w/ the Cubs? B/C when that is the case there is usually some sort of guidelines for what will come back in return (like PTBNL) prior to the interview happening….IF there wasn’t then the Sawks are reaching…or was this a gentlemen’s agreement that if Theo leaves “they’ll just work something out”?
It’s more along the lines that the Cubs want Theo to break a contract he signed and the Red Sox won’t let that happen without getting something out of the deal. Nothing had to be agreed upon before Theo was hired.
All these people and the Cubs are balking at one minor leaguer? And who’s “hardballing?”
I don’t know why there’s even a deadline. This isn’t the A-Rod sweepstakes – Sox fans aren’t waiting on pins and needles waiting to hear that we’re getting a prospect and a PTBNL from the Cubs. If anything, the media firestorm in Boston involving is 99.89% who sourced the Francona smears.
Cubs on the other hand….
Disagree, Sox fans in no rush. They know exactly what they losing. Who their GM will be. Only thing left is to determine compensation. Its Cubs fans who want/need quick resolution. The longer this drags on, the more the Cubs will have to give up.
How’s that disagreeing? Read my post – I agree Sox fans don’t even in care about this – it’s nowhere on the radar with Francona-smear-gate and beer-and-chicken-gate taking up all of the conversation at the moment. The Sox could delay this out to February and no one in Boston would care.
The Cubs fans don’t care. Do you have any idea how long they waited for Hendry to be gone? Anyone will be considered an improvement. And the moves the fans want are completely obvious. All you have to do is fire Quade and bring up Jackson by May. And if you hire Sandberg, the fans will be in rapture. They don’t need Theo to keep the fan happy for one year.
I’m not getting into a stupid “leverage” argument, though.
Really, the stakes are low for either team. OTOH, both teams would probably be a little better off if Theo moves on. low stakes + shared interest = easy negotiations. It’s only the silly fans who are getting all worked up for it.
I think McNutt is a bit of an overpay for Epstein, but you know what? I don’t care. As long as it isn’t Brett Jackson I’m cool with it.
Theo and Lackey for a polite “Thank you. May I have another?” would be fine.
Wait ’til the Cubs figure out that Theo isn’t going to win them a World Series without Dan Duquette to set up the team for him.
What was ’07 then?
There was something like 7 duquette players on the 04 team, and 4 on the 07. People who dont know what theyre rtalkin bout spewin again.
Wow this post killed this thread. As everyone went to Baseball Alamanac counting players on 04 Red Sox. And realized i was right.
Only if you totally ignore Duquette’s draft choices:
– The principal player traded for Schilling
– All four players traded for Beckett and Series MVP Lowell
– The two main players Theo wasted on Gagme
– And there were Youk, Lester, and Delcarmen
So next time, do your homework before making uncivil accusations of spewing and ignorance.
You watch once Theo is a Cub,he is gonna sign and trade people like crazy!! I believe Ricketts told him do whatever it takes to get this team as a contender. Whether thats through trades or FA’s. Ricketts has money to spend trust me. First move for Theo will be to get either Sandberg/Francona/Valentine
Agree, and that what worked so well in 2004 for Sox. Id take sandberg of your choices. Francona always says the right thing to the media, but too much a players coach. By that, i mean he LOVES his vets too much. Making an awkward clubhouse for rookies and new comers. Just ask Ellsbury or Crawford.
I love the enthusiasm. But I couldn’t care less about the manager. Just rebuild our farm system and build a team that starting in 2014 will be relevant every single September. Let’s start with that, and put a manager in there that won’t screw it up! Frankly, Quade doesn’t have strong beliefs. Wouldn’t be the worst idea to consider keeping him on and seeing how he does.
Make compensation conditional upon Cubs performance. Let the McNutt era begin!!!!
this is getting tiring, at this point i could care less whether it’s epstein hahn or cherington, just put SOMEONE in front of the podium and get them to work. even if it’s just randy bush as a one year filler until theo’s a free agent.
I think they are planning on announcing the Theo deal on Wednesday night and Theo is going to parachute into Busch Stadium wearing a Cubs hat.
What is this??? Do the Red Sox believe that they are trading away their ace or superstar???? This is ONE GM who happened to have one GIANT payroll to stock on some key players.(Not attempting to criticize Mr.Epstein). These compensation talks frame the picture as it was the end of the world if the Cubs didn’t acquire Epstein; will the cubs actually trade away some of their most decent prospects to get someone who has not faced the challenge, in terms of payroll, that the Cubs would present? I just can’t believe this, the Cubs are at a position of strength and it is moves like this that have left them in the position they presently encounter themselves with.
This back-and-forth over who has more leverage in the compensation talks is becoming nothing short of INTOLERABLE. Let’s just agree that it’s in BOTH teams’ interest to get this done ASAP.
Wouldn’t it be easier for Theo to resign then join the Cubs? Anything to end this madness.
what the heck is a McNut??? it sounds like a mcdonalds burger one of the employees nutted on
Boston, would you please take Carlos Marmol and call it a day?
i would give jackson before mcnutt
Check out my take on the Red Sox at http://thebestsoxblog.mlblogs.com
For all you guys who keep saying Henry should take cash and not prospects, put this in perspective. BBC did an article in Sept. on Henry that Forbes listed his net worth at 1.1 Billion. So is a few million worth more than potential MLB talent to Henry? Think about it.
You’re assuming it was the ownership. Nick C., Edes, and others have said that there was no proof it came from Henry. Do you think Henry went to a reporter and said this about Francona?
If I was the Cubs I would offer Soriano & Mcnutt 4 Theo Epstein and John Lackey and split the cost of both players and get cash 4 both teams it’s just a thought..and both teams save Salary cap room…Theo may have 2 look elsewhere 4 Asst.s/medical staff…but the Red Sox are trying 2 screw the Cubs out of prospects…the Red Sox are the reason there’s a hold up in Compension…they are crying foul they can’t handle cash…so they want the world in return….they have a G.M in place…they want Mcnutt will give it 2 them and a low level prospect and cash for Theo and asst’s/medical staff…why he needs them is beyond me…the Cubs have every right 2 give the Red Sox compension…but there should be draft picks and lower level talent..thats what compension should be ..Hell give them Quade….while your at it…but get it done already….