Earlier this week, it was reported that in addition to the Cardinals and Marlins, there's a third team in on Albert Pujols. Yahoo's Tim Brown hypothesized that the mystery suitor could be the Cubs or Rangers. Today on Twitter, Jon Heyman of Sports Illustrated discussed the Rangers' possible pursuit of Pujols and more..
- The Rangers are still saying that the odds are remote for them to make a run at Albert Pujols or Prince Fielder this offseason, says Heyman (via Twitter). The club's focus now is to try to lock up Josh Hamilton as the outfielder will hit free agency after 2012.
- Heyman (via Twitter) still won't count Texas out of the chase for Pujols or Fielder. As he points out, last winter's signing of Adrian Beltre came late in the offseason.
- The Braves have long been interested in Yankees shortstop Eduardo Nunez but the Bombers will have to part with much more to land Jair Jurrjens in a trade, Heyman tweets.
I’d say Braves should trade Jurrjens to NYY for Nunez, Swisher, and a prospect. The Braves could add a lower level prospect in the deal as well. It covers both of their needs, a short term shortstop, and an outfield bat who can switch hit, play all outfield positions, and some first base. Yankees need pitching, Braves need a shortstop and a bat, makes sense….
I’d be perfectly ok with that
Of course you would. We take your extra crap and we give you two (perhaps three) very useful players.
If you’re referring to the Javier Vasquez trade, nobody knew Vasquez was going to perform poorly for the Yankees after having a great year with the Braves. But then again nobody held a gun to Cashman’s head and forced him to trade a good reliever and a now top pitching prospect for him either.
you overvalue jurrjens. massively.
there is no way the yanks get jurrjens without throwing montero in the package sorry yanks…i say maybe something like montero nunez and a prospect might get it done…maybe throw in gardner in the package also
And there is no way the Braves gets Montero for Jurrjens. Sorry Braves, but Jurrjens is not that good so it seems like a moot point. I rather keep Montero and Nunez and hope Hughes bounces back. The chance of Hughes bouncing back is greater than Jurrjens staying healthy and making a smooth transition to the AL East.
Or just sign Edwin Jackson (like mentioned below). And give the poor guy a no trade for chrissakes. But seriously I feel like people just fall in love with the thought of making a blockbuster trade. Save Swisher and Nunez and go after EJ
Edwin Jackson in the AL East is a recipe for failure. He was ok last year because he had Dave Duncan and NL competition.
What about the two years before that? He’s put up consistently above average numbers while bouncing around all over the place over the past 3 years. At least he has some experience in the AL. How is the AL East going to affect Jackson but not Jurrjens?
There is no about that it would affect both of them. Jacksons era when he was on the rays was about 4.5-5. He was decent on the white sox, id say hes at best a good third starter.
“He was ok last year because he had Dave Duncan”
Uh oh… FACT CHECK! About the time Edwin Jackson was traded to the Cardinals Duncan left the team for an extended period to be with his wife and family. Duncan returned right before the playoffs. Jackson MAYBE had 2 weeks at most with Duncan prior to the playoffs. Hardly enough to say Duncan is what made him have a decent year.
Not to mention Jackson has been decent for three straight years. Jackson will be a solid signing for whoever brings him in.
Damn you got me, I dont follow the Cards directly but either way if you look at his experience in the AL East it hasnt been very good.
because the NL is soo much more offensively challenged compared to the AL
I have a feeling Jackson will end up being one of the best signings of the winter.
Given his volatile performances and his well documented control issues, I’m going to have disagree with you. I think he’s going to get massively overpaid.
Massively overpaid might end up being true.
However, 5 straight years of a improving FIP and a career low BB/9 last year indicates he might be improving.
my prediction is the rangers…clearly cheaper and younger than CJ and working with maddux could help him
Lets say the Braves could get Montero, where would he play? C/1B are pretty locked down.
No clue, the general post is about Nunez and doesn’t even involve Montero. It is just a few Braves fans hoping the Braves will pull one over on the Yankees. It’s not likely, I think Cash has learned his lesson. I like Nunez as well, even with the fielding errors his numbers for a first year aren’t that far off from Jeters (strictly talking errors).
Most of the Montero talk on the Braves boards has been about trying him at LF. Whether or not it would work though…
if it was going to work i think the yankees would have already tried it
thank you
thank you
“The chance of Hughes bouncing back is greater than Jurrjens staying healthy and making a smooth transition to the AL East.”
This..
Get out of here!!!!
Apparently, you don’t “lovebaseball” enough to know what you are talking about. However considering you all consider Teheran the 2nd coming of Christ, I can understand. That worked out real well with Schafer, then Heyward..but please by all means, please continue to massively over value your players.
Ha, you’re counting Heyward already as a bust?! You obviously aren’t very smart. He was hurt last year, which affected his swing. Check back in a year and see how stupid you sound. Hell, check back in 5, 10, 15 years I don’t care…either way you will sound like an idiot.
You do know that Jurrjens is terrible, right? Regardless of what Tim Kurkjan says.
He’s terrible? Look up his numbers. Yes he has gotten hurt the last two years, but it’s his knee, not anything arm related. You sound like a typical bitter Tigers fan over that Jurrjens trade, you’ll be OK buddy
I’m not upset about the Jurrjens trade. It didn’t really hurt us and I agreed with it 100% at the time and would agree with it again. So don’t put words in my mouth and don’t talk down to me.
So you are saying you wouldnt want Jurrjens as your number 2 over Burnett, hughes or Nova?
Haha x 1,000,000. ’nuff said.
Why would the braves want Montero other than to flip him to another team? Braves don’t need a backup catcher, or a first baseman and braves only need a DH during inter-league. He is value is much higher to a AL team than any NL team. It makes no sense for the Yankees to trade him to the Braves.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!!!
lol are you serious Montero in that deal Jurrjens injury prone the yanks would be getting screwed on that deal Yanks pass
seriously? Montero-yankees best prospect since Cano, nunez-really good can play both 3rd and SS (they need with the aging jeter and arod) Gardner- statistacally one of if not the best left fielders in the game last year, really good obp and great speed and base running whos young and cheap, plus another prospect for the braves pitcher that every beat writer, cover guy, mlb writer, fan wants the braves to trade…yeah ok
Giving Jurrjens to the Yankees for a Nunez (A nobody) and a prospect (A nobody) and Nick Swisher (Pretty decent) is over value? If anything that’s still way under value.
Your statement would make sense if and only if Nunez was actually a nobody. A 24 year old SS who has reached the big leagues and has proven he can hit while attempting to play a premium position is most definitely not a ” A nobody”.
He has a .313 OBP, and his fielding don’t look very good… He’s a nobody
Again, he has a 313 OBP basically getting a few at-bats per week. Giving regular time Nunez showed he can hit. Cano was a “nobody” yet look what he turned out to be.
We already have a SS prospect ready to come up. Nunez wouldn’t be getting much play time here either.
The rate that most Braves fans overrate Pastornicky is astounding.
I’m not overrating him. I’m just saying we have a prospect about to come up. Nunez would have no room to play.
In a way you are. Pastornicky projects to be a utility player. That’s probably why they’re interested in Nunez.
a .313 wOBA and horribad defense is where nunez has set the bar. you don’t have to overrate pastornicky to think he can “keep pace” with that production. in fact, you kinda have to overrate nunez to think otherwise
Yeah I kinda realized when I was typing that comment swapping Nunez for Pastornicky is basically swapping one evil for another, where one of the evil’s only has a projection, while the other has a set bar.
So then why are the Braves so interested in him?
just my opinion. they want nunez to play ss this year while there prospect gets polished. then in 2013 turn nunez into a prado type.
Even a .313 OBP is an enormous increase over Alex Gonzalez’ .270 last year. Heck, if Alex Gonzalez’ OBP was .313 this year the Braves may not have completely imploded and would have made they playoffs….
Swisher is more valuable than Jurjens its that simple.
Yeah, his life time .250 BA and .360 OBP is more valuable than pretty good pitcher.
Granted, Jurrjens isn’t amazing. I wont overvalue him like most Braves fans. But he’s worth more than Swisher alone.
No he’s not, he’s constantly injured, and a bit lucky but he isn’t a very good pitcher. Look at the rest of the right fielder in the league and you’ll realize just how much more valuable swisher is.
Wow…really? Career .250 BA? Is that what you pull out your buttocks?
How about the 26 hrs he’s avg’d over the last 3 years? 46 of 81 of which came on the road for those who want to use the “NYS is a bandbox bull”. How about the avg OBP of .360 or better for the last 3 years?
How about this morsel that will BLOW YOUR MIND?
Only Uggla (36) and McCann(24) had more hrs than Swisher’s 23.
Swisher’s .360 OBP and wOBA of .358 would’ve lead the Braves entire team.
KABLLLOOOWWWIIIIEEEEEEEE
flawless victory
He’s so much of a nobody that the Braves have been interested in him for the last two years? ok.
to be fair, though, “the braves have been interested for a long time” is probably the best thing on his resume
I didn’t say he was a nobody, I said he was pretty decent. But we need more than just him.
Yeah, you did: “Giving Jurrjens to the Yankees for Nunez (A nobody)…” Those were your words and parenthetical phrases exactly.
Were talking about Swisher, not Nunez. The Braves have wanted Swisher a few times before.
His peripherals don’t play well in the AL east, lots of walks+low K ratio, plus the lack of groundballs in Yankee stadium is a big no no. And the reoccurring injury problems in his knee is a big red flag.
exactly. I can see the Braves having interest in both Swisher and Nunez, based on their needs. I can also see the Yanks having strong interest in a Braves pitchers (be it Jurrjens, Beachy, Teheran). So there’s definitely a potential match-up here. But I think to suggest Jurrjens is worth Swisher, Nunez, AND a prospect is beyond the pale. Swisher had a higher OPS, WAR, and wOBA than any Brave last year. So to argue a trade of Swisher for their #3 pitcher (and honestly I think Jurrjens slots behind Hudson, Beachy, and Hanson so he might be their #4) might be more realistic. If you throw in Nunez, who would become their starting SS, now you’re looking at a middle of the order bat and starting SS. What’s that worth to a contending team? I think more than Jurrjens.
How about Swisher, Nunez, and Whelan for Beachy and O’Flaherty?
I think it would be more like Jurrjens and a prospect for Nunez and Swisher.
Davey O’Brien has said the Yankees would be willing to include a prospect in a deal like this. It’s not a buyers market for SP this year.
Nunez is way more valuable to the Yankees than a back end pitcher from the NL with injury issues and declining velocity.
JJ isn’t a back end pitcher. You are to this discussion what Michelle Bachman is to the Republicans….wayyyyy to far extreme.
Nunez does not equal JJ. However, Nunez has very real value. It’s just a matter of fans understanding that. I’m sure the baseball guys have a better handle on things.
A young middle IF that hasn’t shown he can handle SS is more valuable than Jurrjens, the “back end pitcher?” Wow! I wouldn’t want you to be the GM of my team!
Not just more valuable, “…way more valuable…”
I think some of these New Yorkers are suffering from an Occupy Wall Street contact high…
yanks will NOT trade swisher
I’m sorry to bring the news to you but as far as I’m concerned the Yankees are looking for a frontline starter and Swisher has tons of value. Oh, and yeah there is a highly thought of cuban center fielder by the name Of Yoennis Cespedes.
Exactly the Yankees are looking for frontline starters, which I don’t believe Jurrjens is. Plus I wouldn’t say Swisher has “tons of value”, and I highly doubt he could bring back any better than a back end innings eater in a trade.
Never mentioned Jair Jurrjens, I said the Yankees would deal Swisher in the right deal. And Swisher can definitely be the center or at the very least a valuable trade pice for a frontline starter.
He could be part of a deal for a top 2 starter, but he wouldn’t be the center piece to the deal and at that point you’re adding top prospects and the overall value of the trade starts to slant.
In the end I think Swisher has more value on the Yankees this year than he returns in a trade. Just my opinion.
actually, I think a more likely scenario is the Yanks trade Swisher for a pitcher and sign Carlos Beltran or Josh Willingham.
instead of trading for Jurrjens it’s probably smarter for the Yanks to sign Edwin Jackson. He’s a very similar pitcher and he actually stays healthy.
How are they similar? Jurrjens has had a sub 3 era 2 of the last 3 seasons. EJax has never done that.
wow, really? ERA rules the world I guess. Jackson had a lower FIP than Jurrjens in 2010 and 2011.
So who allowed less runs? Just curious. Isn’t that what counts?
I see, ERA rules the world, any other stats are worth nothing. Why am I even arguing here!?
I would love to learn all these cool advanced stats, I was kind of interested in it. I went out and got a girlfriend instead.
Have her explain them to you then.
(I love people who come on an analytical site and trash advanced stats. Maybe as a followup, you’d like to do laps around Whole Foods trashing organic food; or hang out in an auto parts store bagging on losers who fix their own car.)
bet you can’t figure her out either.
lmao. +1
Anyway, JJ is probably worth more than Nunez, yes. But as a Yankee fan I would not like the Yankees to even pay Nunez for him.
They would be better off sending Nunez with others toward the A’s or White Sox for Danks/Gio
Well considering JJ isn’t a strikeout pitcher. Your fancy stat is a bit skewed.
Dude, then you really don’t understand how defense independent stats work.
Well considering the stat “2011 FIP” for JJ was 2.98 and EJ was 2.84… It doesn’t scream better pitcher. Then consider JJ isn’t a strikeout pitcher. Then consider end results. What’s to argue? He is better. I don’t think he’s an Ace nor do I think he’s worth Montero, but I think he’s much much better than what he is given credit for and im getting tired of hearing otherwise. Give the dude a break and admit his good performance.
I don’t think their FIP should be in the 2s, C.C. might be in the 2s, the base is like 3.1, 3.2 or something. So check your sources, but I could be wrong tho.
My apologies.You are correct. The base is 3.2… Mixed up my calculation
After reading many of A’s posts it has become clear to me that he has no idea what he is talking about. Just ignore him, not worth feeding the troll.
Actually Jurrjens FIP this year was 3.99 and Edwin’s was 3.55.
Well considering the stat “2011 FIP” for JJ was 2.98 and EJ was 2.84… It doesn’t scream better pitcher. Then consider JJ isn’t a strikeout pitcher. Then consider end results. What’s to argue? He is better. I don’t think he’s an Ace nor do I think he’s worth Montero, but I think he’s much much better than what he is given credit for and im getting tired of hearing otherwise. Give the dude a break and admit his good performance.
Then what is he, a ground ball pitcher? Because EJ’s had a better GB% over the past three years. Or is JJ a flyball pitcher? There’s one thing he’s got going for him vs. Jackson. More flyballs. That’ll do great in New York
Lol That’s why he mentioned FIP. But if you don’t understand FIP, no need discussing this any further.
Cashman is one of the saber pioneers. He knows what FIP etc mean. He can also see the 4.64 ERA in 20 starts in the NL East last year.
Still think Pujols or Fielder to Rangers is very remote. They do need to lock up Josh first and pitching is the priority. Maybe if they whiff on pitching, can’t lock up Josh and still have money to spend, they think about it again…but I sincerely doubt they will commit to more than 5 years on any player. Thank you, Hicks.
They won’t get either of them. I feel like Josh will give the Rangers a slight discount to stay here. That way we can afford some quality pitching. Hambone is treated like royalty here and he’s a stand up guy. I don’t see him leaving at all.
Don’t you think you’re thinking way too pistively???? I mean look at the 3 top positional free agents: Pujols, Reyes and Fielder. With the exception of Reyes they are both in strong organizations that made it to the playoffs last year and they are still not willing to give a single cent back.
None has an extensive drug history which will make other clubs scared of a breakdown, and none of them were given a second chance at baseball life which took off with the Rangers. I don’t know if he will give them some kind of break on the contract, but I wouldn’t doubt that he would.
I don’t think you can compare Hamilton to Fielder, Pujols, or Reyes.
I still believe Pujols will stay with the Cards.
We all know Fielder and Reyes are driven by money.
If Pujols leaves a championship team to play for the Cubs I will lose my mind.
I could not be more confident the Cubs are not pursuing Pujols or Fielder.
Evidence:
1) Theo said that big free agent signings are not for rebuilding teams. They are for teams that are close and need one more push. Then he said we are not that team.
2) He also said that big free agent signings only make sense to him when you’re talking about an up the middle guy entering his prime. Pujols plays on the wrong end of the spectrum and is 31.
3) The Cubs have made it clear they’re willing to trade veterans to restock the farm system. In what alternate universe does it make sense to say, deal Matt Garza for kids, then plunk a $25MM Pujols at 1B to watch those kids lose 90 games?
Really, Theo and Jed have done just about everything short of cross-stitch a pillow with the words “Pujols to Cubs… never gonna happen.”
So don’t worry, Vossome93.
“I could not be more confident the Cubs are not pursuing Fielder.”
I could see Jurrjens being a 4 or 5 in New York. His youth should give him somewhat of an edge against the top tier AL East, meaning he may not get exposed AS QUICK. But once again, we just dont have the payroll flexibility for someone like Swisher. We can really only hope for Josh Willingham type players in terms of cost. Which is why I’m in favor of just getting a few cheap free agents and go into the season with them, rather than search for a big trade like last year. If we could get Nunez though that would be wonderful, just not for Jurrjens, because I don’t see the Yankees giving us what we’d need in return with our $$$ issues.
If JJ is traded the braves can afford Swisher. And Willingham is asking for a 3year deal at around 10 mill a year. So if you don’t think the braves can afford Swisher then they can’t afford Willingham.
Honestly JJ is way undervalued by other teams fans and maybe a bit overvalued by braves fans, But the yanks fans think JJ isn’t worth 1 yr of swisher, Nunuz, and a prospect then they are clueless.
His injury history alone makes him someone a lot of teams would probably shy away from at almost any price. Add in the low K/9, the low ground ball percentage, the decreased velocity on the fastball, and the fact that he has thrown 200 innings once in his career and I wouldn’t trade Swisher, Nunez, and a “prospect” for him.
I’d rather give up more and get a more reliable starter in return somewhere else.
He still just 25 and is injuries have never been arm problems. Knee and shoulder. He velo has dropped some but not as drastic as everyone on here makes its out to be.
2 MPH is a pretty big drop for any pitcher. In 2010 he averaged 91.3 MPH on his fastball, this year it was down to 89.2 MPH. Not sure how that can’t be seen as a major red flag going forward.
Last time I checked…a pitcher needs good knees and shoulder’s (throwing side) to be effective. You gloss over that as if he suffered from a sore throat or appendix.
PS-Shoulder does count as part of the arm.
Everyone on here is acting like he has had nothing but elbow problems.
Show me a SP who has never had issues with his shoulder or knee? If he was 30 and had problems then I could see why everyone would be questioning him. But at just 25 he has yet to even sniff his prime.
The overvaluing/undervaluing is about equal.
Using this sites arbitration estimates, the Braves payroll stands at $88 mil including controlled players. Swapping out JJ’s $5 mil for Swisher’s $10 mil puts them at $93 mil. McCann hitting his $3 mil in salary increase for 2011 puts them in a payroll crunch…
The payroll stands at about 82 before the 3 mill to McCann.
They can afford Swisher if JJ is in the deal. And then they could send Diaz with JJ so the Yanks will have the RH bat for the bench.
Ok. It’s $82 mil plus the $3 mil extra for McCann, plus 5 empty roster spots.
How much less do the Yankees have to send to take back Diaz?? Not really sure they want him…
A bit of a crunch, but not a super-crunch. They can get by on that payroll. Salary is projected to increase anyways by a bit. (though I think a bit is what they can sell a Dale Murphy baseball card for, or maybe they found a bunch of Melky Cabrera’s winning McDonald’s Monopoly tickets in his locker)
Ok, if Pujols goes to the Marlins, they will be a contender. Between Pujols, Reyes, and Hanley, they’re would have another big 3 in Miami.
There is no way in the world that the Marlins sing both reyes and pujols. They get one TOPS. Not to mention the fact that the marlins low balled both of them
EDIT: I basically posted the exact comment as someone else.
if the yankees were willing to deal montero they would get a hell of a lot better pitcher than jurjjens. they could pull gonzales of the a’s for montero and nunez. why settle for the constantly injured jurjjens??
The A’s want a Dan Haren type deal for Gonzalez if they were to trade him. It would take more than Montero & Nunez to get that deal done.
Montero is gonna hit 30+ homers next season. Bank on it. He has been playing in a pitcher hitters park in aaa for the past two seasons.
Angels gave up Skaggs, Saunders, Corbin, and Rodriguez. So basically a lesser prospect than Montero, a back of the rotation starter, and two fringe prospects. Montero and Nunez is a bigger haul than what Diamondbacks got for Gio.
I really hope the Yankees stay away from Jurrjens. He would seem to be a terrible fit in the AL and a much worse fit in the AL East, pitching in Yankee stadium.
He doesn’t generate a lot of swing and misses, he doesn’t generate a ton of ground balls, he doesn’t stay healthy, and his fastball was at an all time low in velocity in 2011. Nothing about him makes sense for us.
The Yankees need a top of the rotation arm who can produce 200+ innings, and who preferably has swing and miss stuff to combat the deep lineups we would face in the playoffs. If he is simply average on swing and miss stuff he would need to be a supreme ground ball pitcher to keep the ball down in Yankee Stadium. Jurrjens fits none of these criteria.
I like Garza who the Cubs are shopping more than Jurgens!
I agree. Though I’m not sure if shopping is really what the Cubs are doing. I think they are probably dangling him and if some team wants to overpay they will trade him.
I’m not sure the Cubs are ‘shopping’ Garza. He’s their only SP that’s any good. They’re not dealing from a surplus. It would take young pitching, probably 3, to get Theo to listen…
Swisher would be a nice fit for the Cubs. Probably cost Bettances as well and a third mid-level prospect.
NNunez & 2 prospects is good enough for me. Forget Swisher, I think Willingham can give us something similar to Swish.
How about Youkilis, Lowrie, Reddick for Jurjjens and Prado.
I’d take it, but you’d have to throw in Cash. Youk is too expensive.
Except for Youkilis is a better hitter than Prado & Jurrjens isn’t really that good. Just what the Red Sox need – another often injured starting pitcher to go along with Buchholz, Beckett, Lackey & Dice-K.
How about Jurrjens for JJ Hardy. Baltimore desperately needs pitching too. Hardy isn’t exactly a world beater. He has had two quality years and outside of that been shaky. What you think?
No. the braves don’t want a SS who is signed long term
I don’t overvalue players either. Jurrjens for Nunez and a prospect is very fair for both sides. We can’t afford Swisher, sorry. That would be out. Montero for a mid rotation starter ha. I’m a Braves fan and I would be insulted if Wren even tried that.
The Yanks should offer the Dodgers, Cano – Swisher – Hughes – Soriano – Nunez & let them pick 3 from the group of Phelps/Warren/Dellin/Noesi/Manny/Mitchell….For Kershaw No way they turn that down…If they do…Give the Same offer 2 the Giants 4 Lincecum
Then Sign Yu…
2012 rotation
Kershaw or Lincecum
CC
Yu
Nova
Burnett
Problem Solved……..This could work get it done Cashman!!!!!
Thats crazy. Salaries of the involved players might be an itsy bitsy issue.
Not an issue at all
Salaries? Ha! Whats money got to do with it?
You’re on crack if you think Cash is going to trade Cano. Cano is MVP caliber. Any pitcher is one pitch away from blowing out their arm. Just stop man. I could see trading cano for Kershaw straight up. That’s it. Doesn’t make sense for either side though. Where are we getting another mvp caliber 2nd baseman? Hes the only guy who could hit this post season (well jeter too but that cant be counted on in years to come. )
Who’s on crack?
Gardner the Braves could afford if they dealt JJ and Prado, that’s $10mil in arb right now, so salary isn’t a huge issue.
Like what the 5th time you’ve posted this scenario?
The old, “I’m going to keep posting until I get some people agreeing with me DAMNIT” scenario.
We’re going to be reading it for a LOOOOOOOOONG time!
until it happens
Damn right
4th and it makes more sense every time
You put more… I think you meant less.
If the Dodgers can get Nova, Banuelos, Betances, Montero, Cano and Robertson for Kershaw they’d have to think about it…
They’d have to take it and run, and laugh that they got the best deal in history.
Get. Help. Immediately.
Yeah, the Dodgers will trade their 23 year old Cy young after they extend their best hitter and then take on the salaries of Swisher, Cano, and Soriano on top of that. You need to stop.
You can’t be a full grown person saying things like that?
Definitely think it’s going to be JJ for Nunez and Gardner. Fills needs for both teams. Yankees get middle-of-rotation starter, and Braves get versatile stop-gap SS with Nunez until Pastornicky or Simmons are ready, and speed LF with Gardner (50 SB ability), who eventually moves to CF when Bourne walks in 2013.
I suggested this very deal to Dierkes last week during the chat session. It makes so much sense for both sides.
It just creates another need for the yankee’s tho, what do they do about LF if Gardner goes? ( Which i highly doubt )
Still doesn’t make sense for the Yankees. Gardner is too valuable.
Gardner in 2010 and 2011, alone, has been worth more than Jurrjens has been since he made it to the bigs, in 2007.
good post. I don’t know too much about their stuff tbh because I don’t watch them pitch regularly.
Last year Jurrjens averaged 89.2 MPH on his fastball, and he has never averaged more than 91.8. Jackson on the other hand averaged 94.7 MPH last year, and he has never averaged less than 94.2 since 2007.
And velocity is all that matters smh.
Jair for Nunez & Gardner
Gardner’s worth a bit more then JJ.
Gardner, Nunez, and prospect for JJ+Prado could work though.
ummm…..no it can’t. Gardner has more value than JJ right now.
Can Some one explain to me how would it be possible 4 my yankees to acquirer a Kershaw or Lincecum to allow CC to become the number 2 starter
Not gonna happen. Get over it.
If it happens be sure to come back here to eat crow sux fan
MLB The Show?
real life?
Montero, Gardner, Nova, Nunez, Betances and Banuelos might get a conversation started over Timmy.
anyone else think signing Josh Hamilton long term is (or should be) BS?
he has played ONE full season in his career thus far.
I think that the Yankees should trade Nunez but not for that pitcher he is inconsistent we need someone who is consistent and who can fit in that number two spot behind cc. We need to get rid of Burnett he isn’t worth the money we are paying him. All in all get rid if nunez the error machine and get a #2 starter.
People are saying the Rangers are going to be a dynasty but Wilson is leaving and Hamilton, Lewis, Napoli, Torreabla, Adams and Lowe are all FA’s after 2012. That’s a pretty strong chunk of the team.
The yankees are going to be a dynasty when they get Kershaw or lincecum
as long as they keep their young guys, and slot in good FAs its gonna get nasty for everyone else.
they’re not getting either one until they hit free agency, so don’t hold your breath
You’re assuming we aren’t going to keep those guys…that is an incorrect assumption.
his point is that they are going to cost a lot more money, thus limiting their options in the free agent market like Fielder or Pujols.
Interesting to see speculation about how Jair would do against the A.L. East.
Not too bad based on his career stats. He’s pitched 38.2 innings giving up 29 hits w/8 walks & 28 K’s. Record of 2-1 w/one shutout and E.R.A @ 1.92.
Why didn’t you say so earlier! A 39 inning sample size!! That changes everything!
Seriously though that means next to nothing. If he goes to a team like the Yankees he is then pitching in a band box and facing the Red Sox multiple times a year. Not to mention facing teams like the Rangers in the playoffs.
He still doesn’t generate a lot of ground balls and he doesn’t get a lot of swing and misses. Collecting 39 innings over 5 seasons doesn’t change that. He’s also not the same pitcher he was when he was called up with the Tigersin 07, or in 2008 when he pitched 200 innings injury free.
The Rangers, Yankees, and Red Sox have the best offenses in the league. He’s be facing them on a regular basis. He’s safer playing in the NL where he get’s to face the pitcher.
And Chris, i’m dissapointed in you. You grow up in in Kingwood, TX and you’re a Yankee fan…for shame.
Against a pretty good playoff team like the Phillies, His line is 5 Wins 3 Losses, 74.1 innings,
51 hits allowed 23 walks, 43 K’s & E.R.A @ 2.49.
i would offer nunez, hughes, betances and montero for jurrjens and beachy
Well then I question your brain, like if you even have one. There’s no way EJ is better than Jurrjens.
You’re like a gnat with a brain (a non-functioning one). Go away
The Braves and Yanks are not good trade partners, they simply don’t match up. Braves don’t need Swisher because is under contract for only one year at $ 10,000,000. Braves will not assume that large of a contract even for one year. Secondly they would be looking for two outfielders next year (Swisher and Bourn).
The Nunez rumors have some teeth but the deal will not be made. Braves value him as a utility player (that is all he has been to this point) and possible one year starter. NY looks at him as replacement for Jeter.
It’s been reported the Reds are interested in JJ and have a few pretty good players for the Braves to consider. This trade may not take place until middle of next year. Let’s put the Braves and Yanks trade rumors to rest, they simply don’t match up.
Jair this year against 5 top offensive teams in N.L- 3 Wins 1 Loss, IP-34 H-30 BB-8 K-23 w/E.R.A. @ 2.60. Also won against Texas giving up 1 run.
Let’s set the record straight JJ is better than sliced bread and Nunez is better than? Actually I’m not sure but I know I don’t want a part time player on my team that made 20 errors last year. Let him be the replacement for Jeter, in a full time capacity he may make 50 errors.
Sounds like Swisher is a MVP candidate and JJ is a bum OR JJ could win the Cy Young while Swisher is a well below average hitter…….You are all wrong.
Nunez is not even close enough to get JJ. Swisher isnt what the Braves want because of his contract (10 mil and in his walk year). And it really bothers me when guys say JJ is a back end starter. Well, barring injury doesn’t a #4 starter start just as many games as #1 starter?
The Yanks wouldn’t even blink if Swisher wasn’t in the line-up, he is a club house guy and 10 mil is easy for the Yanks. If they trade him then they’ll have to sign someone for 3 yrs and be locked in. JJ is a good pitcher..not a great pitcher…and the whole AL East thing is a little overrated…. I guess Colon is just that good, he pitched in the AL East and did ok. There are good offenses in the East but even the Sox and Yanks go through dry spells scoring runs. Everything is relative, all the pitchers have to face the same teams. Would Colon be a stud if he came to the NL? C’mon. Your team also scores more for you when you pitch for the Yanks, so just give up less runs than your opponent….someone told me that was the key to winning games.
Well, have fun with Bartolo Colon and Freddie Garcia again next year. Because if they Yanks wanna play like they have nothing to trade they will be stuck with garbage like they were last year.
And I don’t want Swisher or Nunez anyway, neither would drastically help us. Now if they wanna deal Jesus Montero? You guys can have Jurrjens, O’Flaherty, and Arodys Vizcaino. You’d be set with pitching for awhile.
Calling these two savvy vets “Garbage” indicates that you know very little about the Yankees and What Bart and Freddy did for them last year.
Garcia and jurrjens fip and xfip are pretty similar yet one is trash and the other is a pretty good pitcher funny how that works out.
You can be as sarcastic as you want but Colon and Garcia performed as well as JJ did (in terms of WAR) and did so in a much tougher division, in a more hitter friendly park and can be had for a fraction of JJ’s salary and won’t cost us prospects.
FIP and WAR
JJ- 3.99 and 1.5
Colon- 3.83 and 2.9
Garcia- 4.12 and 2.2However, your name reminds me that I’m not dealing with a rational person who will look at a trade realistically.
Not expecting Colon and Garcia to repeat in 2012 what they did in 2011 but then again I don’t expect Jurrjens to be as good in 2012 as he was in 2011 either.
Then tell me…
“Hypothetical”
Both are free agents, both are 10 mil a year.
Who do you take?
Jackson hasn’t given the same results in terms of stats over the course of his career and he’s older. His FIP last year was .14 better than JJ. Tell me he’s better, please.
Toss up. Could go either way. Jackson will cost the extra money, Yanks have plenty, but they get to save all their trade pieces for other deals…
Jackson has been more durable and pitched in the AL before. I would want neither but would take Jackson over Jurrjens. His stuff alone gives him more potential than Jair, factor in the inning totals over the last 3 years and it’s a no-brainer for me to take Jackson of the two.
he isn’t better but he isn’t worse either. I think most people would agree that they’re basically the same pitcher if you compare several stats BUT Jackson isn’t that injury prone.
ERA doesn’t tell you anything because it depends on so many things a pitcher CAN’T control.
He’s better. Happy? Jackson has way more upside and fewer injury issues than JJ.
He’s only 28 years old, he’s avg’d close to 200 IP and his peripherals are trending in a direction than seems to indicate he’s getting better.
He’s a Boras client so that’s worth noting. If his price tag ends up in the $3/$36 area then the Yanks might certainly bite, especially if the Braves are demanding a lot for JJ.
If the Yanks make a move for Jurjens, they can go out and get a back up infielder.
eduardo nunez popped the ball up in the infield 24% of the time last year. dunno how you missed it
like soriano, he doesn’t get on base well or defend well. unlike soriano, he doesn’t have a redeeming attribute (power)
I don’t mean to play bash-the-Yankee-fan, but how do you arrive at the Nunez/Soriano comparison? Looking at the minor league numbers doesn’t seem to indicate Nunez has that kind of bat in the making. Is that what scouts say? It just seems really, really optimistic.
Centered around Nunez, what kind of deal would you make for JJ?
I wouldn’t worry. We’re not going to pay that man…but to be honest…I don’t think the Mariners will either.
JJ had half a season of play. And he’s still young.
I’m not trying to over value him. But he has a chance to be pretty good. And I want more than just Nick Swisher for him.
Furcal
he was going to pitch 304 innings?
I’ll grant you the Jurrjens is a good pitcher, and his stuff translates well in the NL east, but he’s no great shakes. Atlanta has a history of always recognizing pitching, so when they look to unload a pitcher, I’m wary. Given the memories of Jarret Wright and Vasquez makes me even more queezy, and for Nunez and a prospect- that’s simply absurd.
Nunez is a similar version of Escobar, only with a better attitude. Playing everyday will only make him a better player and a steal in that type of trade. Cashman should never make that trade.
If you guys don’t want Jurrjens it doesn’t bother me at all. All I’m saying is that he can be better than Colon, Hughes, and Garcia. And if the Yankees didn’t have such good bats, having Garcia, Hughes and Colon would have shown. Not resigning Garcia and Colon, and then trading for Jurrjens and then signing Oswalt would make you win even more.
JJ hasn’t even had a full season and if he did with no injuries, I’m sure he could have a good season. I just don’t want him because he;s hogging up our prospects spots and he cost to much. He’s a #3 pitcher and the Yankees could use that. Where as the Braves don’t and we need a bat.
EDIT
Oh god, I forgot you have AJ Burnett too. Yeah, I think you guys should just take Jurrjens.
They were what 11 in era last top ten in fip, sierra and xfip? I dont think they as desperate as you think they are.
Which they did last year quite easily
Funny, you play the “will Garcia, Colon and Nova repeat what they did in 2011” and then act as if J is anyway a lock to be the same pitcher he was in the 1st half of 2011. There is a very REAL concern regarding his ability to stay healthy, his declining velocity and how his stuff will translate into the AL East. The Yanks, and a lot of teams, will be interested in JJ but the price just has to reflect the BAD as well as the good. Nunez for JJ is not realistic. However, JJ for Swisher plus x, y, and z is certainly as unrealistic.
Yes it’s very plausible garcia and nova repeat their performances from last season. It;s also possibility that hughes stays healthy this season
You can’t be a full grown person?
Finally a rational Yanks fan that can at least admit that Jurrjens is a good pitcher! Was it that hard? I don’t think you can really compare Wright and Vazquez to him though, as Wright had a one year wonder comeback with the Braves the year before and the Yanks were stupid enough to give him a 3 year deal (I believe). With Vazquez, they made the trade knowing he already failed miserably in NY and wasn’t the type to succeed there. Jurrjens is young and very talented and his only question mark is his knee.
I don’t think there’s any way that Nunez is the caliber of defender that Escober is or was when he first came up. Yunel was slick with the glove from the start, the question on him was his bat coming up. I do think Nunez has more upside with the bat, though.
They should be. You really expect Colon and Garcia to replicate last year? Don’t forget Nova either. They need some serious help in the rotation and Jurrjens came really help in that regard
You make it sound like Jurrjens’ only sample size was the first half of this year? What about his numbers in ’09 and ’08? Look em up. Braves fans are undervaluing Nunez and probably Swish, but you guys are undervaluing Jurrjens too.
I think Jurrjens is a solid #4 pitcher, not an ace. His peripherals were not nearly as good as his ERA (he was more like a 3.95/4.00 pitcher) and his K/9 and K/BB rates were in the bottom third of the league, bested by Aaron Harang, Livan Hernandez, R.A. Dickey, amongst many others). His BABIP was very low, so regression is in order. I’d much rather have Beachy.
I see him as a 4.50 ERA pitcher in the Bronx
Jurrjens health is unreliable and he would falter worse than Javy did in the hitter friendly ballparks of the AL East (vs the pitcher friendly parks of the NL) & Nunez is a utillity player for the Yankees = An everyday player for ANY NL team. KEEP JURRJENS!! — NO THANK YOU!!
Jurrjens health is unreliable and he would falter worse than Javy did in the hitter friendly ballparks of the AL East (vs the pitcher friendly parks of the NL) & Nunez is a utillity player for the Yankees = An everyday player for ANY NL team. KEEP JURRJENS!! — NO THANK YOU!!