6:40pm: Mozeliak confirmed that both Lohse and Westbrook are in play in trade talks, but he doesn't anticipate a deal happening, tweets Joe Strauss of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.
5:10pm: Lohse wrote in a text message to Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch that "as of right now" he'd take advantage of his full no-trade clause to reject any trade opportunity.
3:49pm: The Cardinals are willing to trade Jake Westbrook as well, tweets Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports.
3:34pm: The Cardinals are trying to trade righty Kyle Lohse, reports Phil Rogers of the Chicago Tribune. Rogers believes their goal is to make room for Missouri native Mark Buehrle. ESPN's Buster Olney also hears that the Cardinals are making Lohse's availability known.
Lohse, 33, is owed $11.875MM in 2012 and has a full no-trade clause. As of Monday night, nothing had been brought to Lohse's attention, according to MLB.com's Matthew Leach. The righty posted a 3.39 ERA in 188 1/3 innings this year.
Leach notes that Cardinals GM John Mozeliak said he's not prioritizing starting pitching, and if he needed rotation help it'd likely come from within.
Please trade a rather team friendly contract (given Lohse’s performance) and break the bank for Albert, who will be declining half way into the contract.
“team friendly contract”
are we talking about the same Kyle Lohse?
It doesn’t look near as bad as it did last year but if the Cardinals could move most of the salary in order to sign Buerhle=huge win.
Lohse’s regular season performance was a little bit of a bounce-back, but his playoff performance was the same old Lohse that has been killing us for a couple years now. I’d be ecstatic to not have to worry about whether “bad Lohse” or “awful Lohse” was going to show up every fifth day to pitch, even if we don’t use the money to get Buehrle. Using the money to get Buehrle would just be icing on the cake.
Lol 12 million for Kyle Lohse is not team friendly. He had a good year last year, but he’s still kyle Lohse. I honestly don’t care what we get for Lohse, and don’t care if we sign Buehrle (although I would love it if we did) I really just want Lohse gone. I would much rather given Lynn of Zep a chance to start.
YESSSSSSSSSSS! I KNEW IT!
Buehrle.
Stltoday’s Derek Goold reported this tweet, but Lohse will have to want to leave. To this day, he has not had any interest in waiving the clause. Believe me, I wish it could happen, but chances seem slim.
Not if they trade him to a contender.. then he may waive it
He’s already on a contender. Why would he move his family to be on a different contender?
Because STL wants Buehrle.
Lol I think Kyle looks after his best interests first.
Makes sense. Buehrle is rumored to be willing to give the Cards a hometown discount.
Probably won’t get much in return for him, unless you eat money (not likely), but his contract is around market, so someone may take him for a low level prospect.
Of course, why would Lohse be willing to waive his NTC? Does he have a better chance of winning elsewhere? Would changing teams improve his chances of getting a good contract after next year?
you gotta think the red sox are in on this
I almost LoLed out of my office chair.
I almost LoLed out of my office chair.
I almost LoLed out of my office chair.
You almost LoLed out of your chair 3 times?
Seriously doubt that. lohse is a mediocre at best NL pitcher who would for almost certain be a mop up reliever in the AL, much less AL East.
Wandy Rodriquez, even with his more $$$ looks better over Lohse and most think Houston will still end up paying part of his salary and taking little in return for him.
whyyyyyyyyy
Unless he is as pissed off about the way he was used the last 6 weeks like people are claiming but come on
Going to have to eat at least a portion of his salary and pay the same amount for more years to Buehrle. WTF MO???
How did Lohse get handed a full no-trade clause?
the better question is how he got 44 million dollars
Although I’ve generally liked the way Mozeliak has handled the front office duties, he does seem to overpay some players. The Lohse contract is probably one of the most egregious errors (it was also done fairly early in his tenure after taking over for Jocketty, but I’m not sure how much he’s learned since then), although the “bidding against himself” strategy with Matt Holliday didn’t look that good, either (although I still really like the signing of Holliday).
He was hurt for two of the three years of the contract, and neither his performance this past year, nor the year immediately preceding the contract (2008) indicate that this was anything other than a market deal.
The problems for me was that 2008 was a career year for Lohse. He had never been able to put it together for a full year prior to then, and the deal seemed a little high (especially considering the NTC) for a player coming off a career year. I know the injuries had a lot to do with his ineffectiveness, but we tried to pay him #2/#3 starter money when he’s more of a bottom of the rotation kind of guy. Last year he started to bounce back, but in the 2nd half he started to look more like the Lohse of 2009/2010 again.
Also, as a fan, I have a tendency to develop a distrust in a player and it’s very hard for me to give them my trust back. I know it means nothing to them, but it does cloud my opinions when talking about that player and their performance/the potential for trading them. I just don’t trust Lohse going forward, and if we could move him for a low-level prospect and not have to pay off too much of his deal, I’m all for it.
Drinks were on Lohse. I’m guessing MO took advantage.
I wish it was Westbrook but I want mark to join our team for sure
ask and you shall receive
I wish it was Westbrook but I want mark to join our team for sure
I’ve been wanting to hear this news for a year and a half now. I’ve always had a great appreciation of Buehrle. Lohse, on the other hand, I’ve never really trusted, and he’s been erratic at best since his injury a couple years ago.
Plus, this move would lessen the sting a little bit if the Miami Marlins pry Pujols away from us with their “make it rain” money strategy.
I like how the last Buehrle headline said “Buehrle has narrowed it down to 5 teams”… and only 4 teams were mentioned. Mystery team = Cardinals
Lohse being traded = poor return and probably eating some salary.
Is this acceptable to land Mark Buehrle? Yes I think it is.
Lohse has been horrible to average everywhere besides StL. Why would he waive his no-trade to pitch somewhere else in his contract year???
It would probably depend on the destination. A decent team in a pitcher friendly park may still appeal to him.
Miami.
EDIT** Miami for Hanley since he wants out now
Yes, Kyle Lohse for Hanley Ramirez. How could the Marlins possible decline that trade?
not just Lohse.. you guys can have a copy of the 2011 World Series Relived DVD as well
How?
screw it, package him and westbrook for a crap prospect and sign buerhle and jackson
i think the goal here is to save salary and use a cheaper internal option like Lynn in the rotation, not replace salary with even more salary by getting Buerhle.
Depends on whether or not you need the money to pay Pujols. Once Pujols is paid, spend it on Buehrle and improve the rotation.
Theoretically, Buehrle gives the Cardinals a home-town discount. If not, then use Lynn/McClellan/Whatever until Miller is ready.
Wainwright
Carpenter
Buehrle
Garcia
Westbrook/Miller (after we trade westbrook at the break)
Hope this happens, that rotation would be nasty
GO GO GO!
Wish it was Westbrook…
well there ya go!
Whoa! It’s a dream come true.
am i the only cardinal fan/STL native who doesn’t want Buerhle on the team right now? We have more important needs…
Yes. You are.
well, glad i got that clarified. I’d rather have a mlb caliber middle infield and still have a strong rotation of Wainwright/Carp/Garcia/Lohse or Westb/Lynn than have buerhle replace lynn and most likely offer non substantial upgrade.
what did we just win the world series with, schumaker punto in furcal. not top of the line middle infield
we didn’t win because of the middle infield, we won in spite of the middle infield. Get it right
you also just won the WS without Adam Wainwright, who will return next year.
your argument fails.
They had to significantly upgrade the middle infield at the deadline because it was one of the many things that was killing the club, offensively and defensively.
After the Riot’s average stopped hovering around .300 he was of absolutely no use (though he did prove to be a big pinch hitter down the stretch, saving the season on multiple occasions)
Skippy didn’t get right with the bat until the second half and everyone knows what his defense is like.
Furcal hit into some bad luck in the playoffs after the first round and little offense if any came from 2B after game 5 in philly
Defense did its job but offensively the Cards won because of Freeser, Torty, Berkman, Yadi, and Albert
Definitely not the only one
How about we get a flippin short stop or center fielder before we start throwing more cash at a position we have an influx at
voice of reason! hurray
Who do you suggest we get? Rollins? Dude’s 34. Five years is nuts.
yeah, i never once said i wanted rollins…
the free agent market has very little to offer, maybe Kelly Johnson but i’d explore trades first. It honestly all depends on Pujols first though
Yeah I never said that you did want Rollins.
I figured it was who you were thinking because the market is barren. Any potential trade candidates at short you know of?
Chad Pennington would be decent. He had a down season but his splits are good, plays strong D, runs a bit. A’s have Grant Green coming up and we all know Beane likes to deal. Not a sexy choice, but an effective choice.
agreed. Especially with the short stop FA market. For the Cards its Furcal or no one, and if he still truly believes a 3 year deal is out there he is not a Cardinal come April
Rollins isn’t going anywhere. The best upgrade they can make (not through trade) is Furcal and Danny D up the middle and spread the rest of the left over cash around to center and potentially right
Jon Jay is insulted.
I am a big JJ supporter but we need a right handed platoon partner to play with him. Sugar Shane Robinson ain’t enough
I agree, we need a right handed CF. No one stands out to me though. Maybe Ludwick?
I doubt they go down that road again . And I don’t think anyone sees him as an option in center
Its going to be interesting
How many games do you expect this platoon partner to play? Craig could suffice if it’s a game per week or so…
How about they trade Westbrook or Lohse for a SS?
Westbrook for Ian Desmond?
Nats pass on that one. Would have to throw in a prospect along with westbrook. Maybe Sanchez or Salas would get it done.
Yeah but it would free up a spot in the rotation for Big Bad Buehrle
Yes you are i think lol We want the home town guy with the discount. He said he has all the money he needs and was willing to retire if he didnt get a deal with someone he wanted to play for during this passed season. And not to mention he is a lefty who was good in the AL he will dominate in the NL
He was good in the AL but i don’t know if i’d go so far to say he’d dominate in the NL, he’s a contact pitcher
who says he is going to give a discount now? He has multiple big market teams throwing cash his way. No way he turns down 10+ million extra to sign with the cards
Who says? Mark Buehrle said. I bet he would.
If he doesn’t, you start cheap talent and improve elsewhere. What do you lose?
the past few years have shown me to never listen to words from professional athletes. I hope buerhle is sincere and will come here for cheap, but most likely, its not gonna happen..
Hes an upgrade over Lohse and Westbrook, its not like we wont address those other concerns. Pujols and a SS
actually thats exactly what it could mean, we might not be able to address those other concerns if their is no salary to work with. I really don’t want to see a middle infield of Greene/Descalso next year.
Lohse led the Cardinals in wins & lowest ERA last year…. just saying
on a team w/o Wainwright, terrible offensive support for Carpenter, bullpen disasters for everyone…
Lohse was excellent the first half but disappeared for most of the second. I admit, without him we don’t even sniff the playoffs but at the same time it was obvious that by the end he was barely the cards 4th best pitcher
One of the best #4 SP’s in baseball…. Least of our concerns.
depending on which Lohse shows up on a given night. His control pretty much has to be absolutely perfect for him to do anything
Given the fact that he was coming off a couple seasons with arm trouble, it doesn’t surprise me that he struggled down the stretch. I’d expect 200 innings of 3.75-4.00 ERA ball this year. Nothing to scoff at for $12 million.
depending on which Lohse shows up on a given night. His control pretty much has to be absolutely perfect for him to do anything
Which is why he has any trade value at all. WIthout his performance last year, Cards are forced to eat his contract. With it, you get a low level prospect who will never amount to anything, but you save the 11+ million in salary.
You never know they still might have to eat 4 to 5 million
yup!!!! you sure are buddy. Imagine to nasty lefty’s in the rotation behind two horses waino n carp. ahhhhhhhh as in the dousche bags words. it would be sickness
I’d love to see a battery of Buehrle and Molina. Runners might as well stand on first base until the batter makes contact.
“The Cardinals are willing to trade Jake Westbrook as well, tweets Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports.”
I hope Rosenthal didn’t need a source to figure that out…..
Was that after his Tweet of “Giants may be willing to include cash in a Barry Zito deal”….?
And with news that we’re willing to move Westbrook as well, I now officially dub this the “gift that keeps on giving” news story of the day.
Totally bizarre moves by the Cardinals at the Winter Meetings. Starting pitching was the one area that almost nobody worried about, yet they’re actively trying to trade starters while Albert is wooed by the Marlins.
Just bizarre.
Somehow, I doubt trading Lohse and/or Westbrook significantly harms the rotation. You’re talking the fourth and fifth starters here – not one of the important ones.
Is the rotation strong? Somewhat. But why not trade from your strength? Plus, this could potentially free up money to either a) improve by signing Buehrle or b) resign Pujols without killing payroll.
I agree in theory. However, what team will want either of these barely-serviceable and overpaid starters? And why would the Cards want to add salary (Buehrle will be costlier than either of them) for what appears to be declining performance?
Lohse’s performance last year is in line with his salary for this year. Westbrook was not, but at least has the benefit of a decent career behind them.
Someone will take them, and likely most of their salary, so long as the Cardinals aren’t picky about the prospect they get in return.
You have to remember what the free agent market looks like: Wilson, Buehrle, Oswalt, *crickets*
The Cardinals also have a surplus of RH arms in the bullpen. I am wondering if not Buehrle, then maybe Lance Lynn gets a shot at the rotation. He was a solid SP in AAA.
Sign Jimmy Rollins and Pujols and we dont need anybody else
video game comment board is on the other site
You know if Buehrle really would take a nice discount to play for STL, then why not go ahead and sign him up.. then they can work on trading Westbrook or Lohse..
Worst case:
Wainwright
Carpenter
Buehrle
Garcia
Westbrook/Loshe (Lefty-Righty switch out until we can trade one at the break)
Send ’em both!
Carpenter
Wainwright
Buehrle
Garcia
Lynn.
Dynasty!
Lohse/Westbrook to Red Sox for Youklis if Pujols doesn’t come back and sign Mark and maybe Rollins.
Run that trade idea past a Red Sox fan and see what they say.
Just like this time last year when Yankees fans were basically stating the Cardinals should trade Chris Carpenter to NY for next to nothing?
Do the Red Sox get a say in this?
Why stop at Youk? Maybe you can get Lester for Schumaker!
Jay for Jacoby..im on board
that sounds fair. while we’re at it, toss us Wainwright and Shelby Miller for John Lackey.
that sounds fair. as long as he still has the hook up for trucks of fried chicken
Really….Really……Why don’t you ask for Elsbury too and we can throw in Greene. Rediculous!!! Why would anyone take Lohse and/or Westbrook and there big contracts if we done want them?
is it possible that either one of these guys end up in baltimore?
both of them and a porspect for markakis
Change Markakis to Jones; you gotta deal.
They need to open a spot in the rotation for Lance Lynn.
Mr. Miller will be knocking at the door come June or July as well
Knocking on the door…
… of AAA.
September callup would be a respectable ETA for Miller.
he is probably going to start the season at memphis. last season he handed the transitions very well and most expect him to do the same again next year. If he continues his progression come mid season and the cards are aching for impact innings it would be hard to keep him down on the farm until September.
But i agree, best case scenario looks like September
He would be a good pick up for the rockies
What’s the point if you sign Buerhle and lose Pujols? Better pitching, but you lose a key component of your offense. Of course, signing Pujols to a 10 year deal is ridiculous too…lose-lose for the Cardinals.
Tell Wilpon you will eat all but $2 million each. I think the Mets need cheap options to start. Sadly the Met fans need to Occupy Citi Field til Wilpon sells the team.
Cards fans should be a little more worried about that Pujols guy than trading someone to sign Buehrle. Their rotation is getting Wainwright back who is an ace, I think the staff will be fine.
As a cards fan I am just trying to pretend its not happening, especially with how the media is trying to make it look
Albert on the club hurts us financially and Albert in Miami hurts us physically
Its an awkward situation
Trading off those salaries is probably just as must about freeing up room for a bigger Pujols offer as much as it is about Buehrle.
Trading off those salaries is probably just as must about freeing up room for a bigger Pujols offer as much as it is about Buehrle.
Do you expect the Cardinals to shut down all business until they figure out Pujols?
Do you expect the Cardinals to shut down all business until they figure out Pujols?
Lester is not available. Youklis might become available and Craig is Injured right know who else do you have on the Roster who can play 1B other then Berkman if Pujols doesn’t come back intill Craig gets back?
What are the Cards looking for and what would the cost for Lohse be. Is he a top rotation starter? Wouldnt mind helping Cards as they are one of my favourite teams in the NL 😛
Lohse, and Westbrook, would be a salary dump and nothing of value would likely be required to get them. Lohse has #3 starter capabilities but will more likely be a back-end guy, especially in the AL. Same with Westbrook.
Oh alright thanks, saw his 14-8 and thought he wouldn’t be bad to get for the right price.
Looks like the Jays wont go after them though
Jays took a headache off the Cards hands already this year why wouldn’t they do it again?
They are looking for #1 or #2 not #3 start we have many of those already
Lohse, and Westbrook, would be a salary dump and nothing of value would likely be required to get them. Lohse has #3 starter capabilities but will more likely be a back-end guy, especially in the AL. Same with Westbrook.
Royals?
Can you blame them? They need to up that offer to Pujols, meaning they gotta clear salary.
I think its to land Buehrle on a team friendly deal. Plus, Lohse can be a good valued pickup in the land of overpriced free agent starters.
Lohse probably wont waive his no trade clause unless his new team gives him another year or two of an extension…why would he leave a contender in a contract year?…look what Edwin Jackson did in STL…he will probly get a 4 years for 10 mill or more per year…Cards should try and dump that bum Jake Westbrook for a bucket of baseballs
trade westbrook for a bucket of baseballs
PLEASE strike a deal with the pirates to send lohse to pittsburgh. I really feel as if he would be a good #1 or #2 starter with the pirates and thats exactly what huntington should be addressing at the winter meetings right now. he needs to get a first baseman and another starter and hes good to go
GET IT DONE MO!!!!!
I think everyone’s putting the clydesdales behind the beer wagon. We need a declaration from Albert first before we start strategizing about the like to haves.
His decision will make a lot of difference going forward. He’s either with us, making a lot of $’s or playing for the potentially bankrupt competition….
and like so many summer evenings, Kyle Lohse crushes my dreams……
See…. Loshe isnt even cool enough to be on twitter.. he has to text that shlt?
“as of now”.. Cardinals should tell him that he is going to be on the landscaping team if he doesnt waive the clause!
Lohse wrote in a text message to Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch that “as of right now” he’d take advantage of his full no-trade clause to reject any trade opportunity.
……………. dream killer.
what do you guys think of sending kmac and skip to the giants for torres and keppinger, both the giants might be non tendered and both guys could help us