April 2nd: Olney now reports that the sides are working on a nine-year deal worth $140MM, though he cautions that the deal isn’t done as they are still working on some things.
April 1st: The Pirates and prospect Konnor Griffin are reportedly deep into extension negotiations, per Buster Olney of ESPN.
It doesn’t appear that anything is done or agreed to yet but it seems the two sides aren’t too far apart. Olney’s report frames Pittsburgh as hoping to get something done that is comparable to Corbin Carroll‘s $111MM eight-year deal with Arizona while Griffin’s camp is targeting Roman Anthony‘s $130MM eight-year pact with Boston. Given that the gap is less than $20MM, perhaps something can get done. A couple of weeks ago, Jon Heyman of The New York Post suggested the Pirates could be willing to get to the $110MM range. Last week, Noah Hiles of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reported that the two sides had indeed discussed an eight-year deal worth $110MM.
Griffin is not yet 20 years old and hasn’t played in the majors yet but he is the top prospect in the game right now and many consider him the best prospect seen in years. Last year, he slashed .333/.415/.527 while hitting 21 home runs and stealing 65 bases.
He topped out at Double-A yet seemed to have a chance at breaking camp with the club here in 2026. He hit four home runs in spring training but his other numbers were not great, as he slashed .171/.261/.488. Part of that was a .125 batting average on balls in play but Griffin also struck out at a 28.3% clip and only drew a walk in 4.3% of his plate appearances.
That surely didn’t do anything to dampen the club’s long-term hopes for Griffin but the Pirates decided to start the season with him at the Triple-A level. He has a .462/.588/.692 slash in four games to start the season.
Extensions for players with little or no major league experience have become far more common in recent years. Earlier this week, Colt Emerson and the Mariners set a new benchmark for pre-debut guys, signing an eight-year deal with a $92MM guarantee.
Emerson is one of the 10 to 15 top prospects in the league but, as mentioned, Griffin is the clear #1 and is perhaps the best prospect in quite some time. With that in mind, he should sail past Emerson’s guarantee and it seems like the talks are already past that point.
For extensions signed quite early in a player’s career, Carroll and Anthony are some of the most notable. Carroll and Anthony each signed within two months of their respective debuts. Julio Rodríguez has the record for a deal for a player with less than a year of service time. Towards the end of his rookie season, he and the Mariners signed a convoluted deal with a $210MM guarantee and multiple club/player options.
The largest contract in Pittsburgh’s franchise history is the $100MM deal they signed with Bryan Reynolds a few years back. It seems they are willing and hoping to break that record to lock up Griffin as part of their core. The longer they wait, the harder that will become. Young players generally gain earning power as they push further into their careers and closer to free agency, as the Rodríguez deal shows. For guys with two years of service time, Bobby Witt Jr. got a $288.8MM guarantee while Fernando Tatis Jr. got $340MM. Vladimir Guerrero Jr. got $500MM when he was just a few months from free agency.
It’s been over a decade since the Pirates last made the playoffs but it’s possible better days are ahead. They have already graduated a number of exciting young players onto their major league roster in recent years, headlined by Paul Skenes. Their farm system is currently ranked by many outlets as the best in the majors. That’s in large part due to Griffin but they also have Edward Florentino, Seth Hernandez and other exciting young prospects on the way. They had a busy offseason, adding Brandon Lowe, Ryan O’Hearn, Marcell Ozuna and others as they try to take a step forward.
Griffin will be a key part of the competitive window that appears to be opening but the Bucs would naturally love to extend the relationship if they can. From Griffin’s perspective, he would have to be willing to delay his path to free agency. Going year to year could potentially mean hitting the open market after his age-25 or -26 season. Signing a deal now would lock in an upfront guarantee while perhaps still giving him a chance to become a free agent before his 30th birthday.
Without a deal officially signed, there’s a notable ticking clock with Griffin’s service time. A major league season is 187 days long but a player only needs 172 days in the majors to be credited with a full year of service time. That means Griffin can still hit that one-year mark if called up in the next week. If he does so without an extension in place, he would be eligible to earn the Pirates an extra draft pick via the Prospect Promotion Incentive, though players who sign pre-debut extensions are not PPI eligible. If Griffin is still in the minors by the end of next week, he wouldn’t be able to get a full year of service the old-fashioned way but would be credited with one year retroactively if he is eventually called up and places in the top two in National League Rookie of the Year voting.
Photo courtesy of Sam Navarro, Imagn Images
Get it done and bring him up!
Yep. He’ll magically be brought up once money isnt an issue.
His development was never the issue
Smart move imo why give up the extra year of control, now if he had mashed in spring training I could see your side but he didn’t
Already done. Already up.
Several sports outlets are now reporting that the 9 year $140 million dollar contract is being finalized and will be announced before the home opener on Friday
That would cost Pirates a draft pick, which would be insanely dumb. It’ll be announced over the weekend.
Here come all the nutting haters. He’s a good man with a generous heart and he’s done quite a lot for the Pittsburgh community and beyond so quit hating the man.
That you, Bobby?
A+ Nutting. Extends every player that should be extended. Provides all the resources needed when needed.
He’s a carpetbagging profiteer who has mostjy done for himself. While I salute Pirates charities and the Miracle Fields, you can save your propaganda. He decided to spend this off season. Nice of him
I don’t believe for one second that he’s giving up profits. He will make this money back one way or another. He has a profit addiction.
As he should. And I’m sure every other owner does
Pirates Charities depends mostly on private donations from the public and private sector
Nutting organizes the charitable events and uses his name as a symbol of charity
Understood, but I’ll give him proper credit for at least being at the Pirate auction and making himself visible for worthy causes. I have nothing against the guy. For all I know, he’s a saint in his circle of life. But as an owner, please. Everything he has done with this franchise until just recently has been profits first and putting a winning or at least competitive team towards the bottom of the list
Jeez. What an incredible comment to start this thread. I fully expect the guy who blames fan attendance for continued losing to show up in full agreement
I was by no means defending Nutting, I was just explaining how that charity raises money
But I agree, he’s been a miser for years, hiding his profits like Scrooge
No, you’re exactly right. But with a franchise that dug up Bucco bricks, replaced banners celebrating the greatest Pirate ever with advertising and overseeing free-for-alls for bobble head giveaways, at the very least someone had the good sense to partner with some worthwhile causes
Do you remember when Pirates Charities would hold a special event at a home game in which fans could buy their selection of Bags?
Inside the Backpacks were autographed baseballs, Pirate trinkets, depending on which backpack purchased, an autographed home jersey of a select player?
They stopped doing this event 3 years ago for some reason
In its infancy, and for several years, I bought the Backpacks and one year paid for an autographed Cutch home jersey and next year an autographed AJ Burnett home jersey
They are both framed and hanging in my collectable room
My point is. the franchise suddenly stopped this event and I often wonder why
Each year all of the backpacks were bought by fans
I won’t hate on him, though it’s completely justified in many regards, and just say a verifiable fact–he is risk averse and perhaps the most risk averse owner in MLB. He plays his investments very safe and, if he does extend Griffin, this is an encouraging sign because it’d be one of the first big risks he’s taken (and it’s not even that big a risk).
It’s a big risk.Lets this guy play in the ML’s for a year.You would pay more but life changing money at 20 years of age is a very,very big deal.
It’s a risk, yes, but I don’t know many teams who wouldn’t take this risk. It’s a big deal that it’s the Pirates simply because of their history of adverseness to risk.
The risk is much more to Griffin. If he doesn’t sign this deal he could become a free agent by 26/27 and set himself up for a 500 million dollar easily if he is as good as advertised. The owners have to love the players doing these deals— it takes more guys out of the free agent market.
How’d you like your daughter to have married him at the age of 19 like someone’s daughter just did
His earliest free agency would be 2031.
Something needs to happen, Triolo isn’t the answer at shortstop offensively
Hes an idiot to get married at 19 no matter what. I hope shes pregnant and he did the honorable thing
Goor financial move on her part.
Trilolo shouldn’t even be on the team. Hes a batting liability. But evidently Kelly loves this hitless wonder. Batting him leadoff and 5th and 6th in the order.
Conspiracies:
Stearns will trade Dicky Lovelady plus a night with Mrs. Met for Trilolo and a half-eaten pack of grape Big League Chew.
Chewing Big League Chew right now but I have never seen the grape version.
19 years old plus 9 year contract equals 28/29 years old at end of contract so still looking at a big contract. So what’s your point?
never judge someone until you have walked a mile in their shoes
who are you to call anyone an idiot for doing something that you disagree with?
As a lifelong Pirates fan, I don’t hate him anymore. He seems like a good guy by most accounts and you hit the nail on the head that he’s very risk averse. I don’t know why it took them so long to upgrade the roster. No one knows how much BC or Huntington’s hands were tied. At points, they made moves and also failed miserably quite a bit. It’s a double edged sword of not being good enough to spend and not spending enough to be good.
I will argue until I’m blue in the face that other owners are just as bad if not worse. Certainly Cleveland is worse. They actually contend year in and year out and can’t even sign a free agent bat or starting pitcher, ever. Milwaukee is the model of how the Pirates can spend, but they are cheap as well. They’ve traded off an endless array of all star/cy young pitchers while in a prime window to contend.
2020 21 22 they weren’t trying to win. They couldn’t even if they tried as hard as they could so no reason to even try.
2023 they tried but not all in as they didn’t have farm system built yet.
2024 they did contend until Shelton holderman Bednar blow up.
2025 there wasn’t any free agents available.
2026 you had both the farm system ready and good free agents and trade opportunities available.
Raise that “good man” banner proudly!
You cannot hoard wealth the way he does and be considered a good man with a generous heart, I dont care how much he gives away for the tax benefits.
If people really do hate him like you say it’s probably for the product the Pirates I’ve been putting on the field for the past whole bunch of years.
I always think if folks really want him to sell, they would probably just move to a larger market. No one is spending and going in the red for the love of the game. Seidler did, he’s since passed away. Same with Illitch.
He’s overseen just about the least successful team in sports for 20 years. This signing would be great but how could you possibly say he doesn’t deserve all the criticism he’s gotten over that time?
The Browns and Jets would like a word.
But, you’re not too far off haha
certified bruh moment
“[Bob] Nutting” and “a good man with a generous heart” should not be in the same statement unless “is not” is in-between said words in quotes.
These extensions for minor-league players work out great for both player and team, until they don’t. As soon as one of these ends badly, it may slow down these extensions for prospects
that is exactly the point – how poorly can these really end? white sox gave eloy 6 years $43m, it didn’t work out, doesn’t cripple the org. red sox gave roansy all that cash to sit in AAA. it’s not going to stop teams from cashing in while they’re young
Those are not small market teams and there is much more money than that on the table.
You have to gamble when it makes sense. They all don’t have to work out. Just hit on a few and you are good.
And it makes a lot more sense for big market teams than small market teams,
does it? if you have somebody as touted as griffin, this is your best chance to keep him for the long haul. also, white sox have the 3rd lowest payroll in baseball so they certainly act small market…
Makes same sense for all teams
Kristian Campbell’s extension looks pretty terrible and that hasn’t stopped teams from doing this.
What happened to Campbell is the exact problem with this type of contract. They paid him before he proved anything. He wasn’t ready. They didn’t send him down for way too long, because it would look bad. And so his development is derailed.
Campbell is not the appropriate comparison to Griffin. A better comparison would be A-Rod. I’m sure the M’s would have loved to buy out two free agent years of his. Griffin isnt quite A-Rod level, but he closer to that than Kristian Campbell
As far as we know you mean?
Another point is that even the “can’t miss”’prospects do sometimes
How do you know that he will be anywhere close to ARod who would have been a first year HOFer if it wasn’t for drugs?
A-Rod? lol
A-Rod was raking in AAA at 18-19
Let’s not jump the gun and give Griffin A-Rod comparrisons, that’s only setting him up for dissapointment. However, he is a lot better of a prospect now than Campbell was a year ago.
You could hit on less than half of these pre-MLB extensions and still end up well ahead financially if you’re targeting the right guys.
It’s a calculated risk while running a business. Some extensions work, some don’t. Why would teams stop investing in their multi-billion organizations because of a misstep when valuations continue to escalate with record attendance and revenues? There’s a big picture to look at here.
You’re 100% right in your assertion but I’m struck by this new avenue of signing kids to long term extensions when they’ve not even really cut their teeth at the MLB level
Then again, a million bucks sounds like a lot to me. Guess I’m just a dinosaur in this era.
I understand the hesitation with fans. Evan Longoria was a week into his MLB before signing his first deal in 2008.
A shining recent example is Scott Kingery who was extended either before his debut or shortly after. Phils got burned on that one.
Because Kingery’s $24M deal flopped, teams should cease these types of contracts. lol
I think that the point is that as many of these contracts do not turn out well as do and it is more imperative for small market teams to get it right for a very large contract like this one would be.
This is analogous as to why small market teams have to trade their stars early and do not get into the bidding for the best players.
I think that most posters on here would give him a big contract but only after he proves that he can hit ML pitching over a decent amount of time.
The Pirates had Suwinski and have Davis and both were outstanding AAA hitters.It proves nothing as the pitching in the ML’s are a step and a half above the minor leagues.
Fair points.
Response from a fair Yankee fan
I am a Phils fan; also someone that never thought Klentak was even close to the right guy for the job. But I will never hold the Kingery extension against him as it was a sound risk at the time on a prospect that seemed to have a floor that fully justified the deal and a ceiling that would have made him an All-Star if his development was not derailed.
Whether it worked out has little to do with making a sound business decision in the moment. I would do more of those deals again and again.
And you would also not try to make a home run hitter out of a relatively small statured doubles machine.
That ruined his career.
Brewers offer to Pratt was a good deal for the player and the team. On the high side, 10/100M, on the low end, 8/56M.
If Pratt is an all-star Brewers collect significant surplus value over the life of the contract.
If Pratt is a good not great player, Brewers still have potential for surplus value.
If Pratt is replacement level, its an overpay but his glove and defense makes him very low risk to be a complete bust.
All the other rookie extensions have been off the mark. They all have surplus value on the high end but they are full of risk if the player performs at a mark that puts him below the top tier of players at the position.
The rookie deals make sense, if they are skewed towards the team across multiple scenarios. They are high risk/high reward otherwise.
The White Sox extended Tim Anderson, Robert, Moncada, and Eloy. Only TA provided a solid return. So I get the caution. That said, it depends on the deal. If they’re buying out FA years at $30+M each for an unproven player, however talented, I don’t like it. If there are escalators to get there or beyond, sounds like a win-win.
Say Gunnar earns 55M into FA and signs 3yr/120M deal with the Orioles. Thats 9yr/175M.
Say Pena earns 35M into FA and signs 3yr/75M deal with the Red Sox. Thats 9yr/110M.
These are current comps. If you pay a rookie 8yr/110M, the only way you stand to gain is if he plays at the level of a Turang/Henderson. If he’s Pena you took on a lot of risk to break even and Pena is a good player.
So it comes down to this, can you get surplus value on the rookie deal if the player is merely a Pena or a Gimenez?
The Brewers did just that on the 8yr/56M dollar deal with Cooper Pratt. If he plays at a Henderson level, they save 100M. If he plays at a Pena level, they still have surplus value built in, 35M potentially.
Even if he turns out to be Andres Gimenez, the Pratt deal is close to a break even proposition at 8/56M.
Brewers took on very little risk for the big payoff and are basically hedged by Pratt’s glove.
The Emerson deal, the Griffin deal as laid out above, they are busted. The team gets the big payoff on the high end but are too risky as the player’s performance falls out of the top tier. No surplus value at the Pena tier, and that’s the second tier. Both are underwater deals if the players aren’t all-stars.
Tis the summer of extensions
There it is. What we’ve all been waiting for. Biggest out of the pre career extensions by far. The Pirates locking down a potential face of the franchise.
I find it amusing how it is called an “extension” when the player doesn’t even have any Major League experience. While this wouldn’t happen to Konnor Griffin, a player in the same circumstances could be released at no financial cost to the team; hence, he doesn’t really have a contract. The word “extension” would be more accurate when a player under an existing contract adds more years to that contract. Kind of like how a player who has never been in the majors gets “recalled” to the Big Leagues because he’s already on the 40-man roster.
Player gets “recalled” because he was optioned down at some point, usually at the end of spring training. The active MLB roster is only 26 players, so 14 are optioned to begin the season.
I read it as an extension of team control.
You just don’t understand whats going on man.
First, as bucs fan already touched on, any player on the 40-man has to be “optioned” and use one of their option years if they’re going to be sent to the minors, even if it’s to start a season. Hence why they’re “recalled” when added to the 26 man roster.
Second, minor leaguers are still under contract man. Just because there’s no guarantee and one party can sever the relationship at will doesn’t mean there’s no contract in place. So “extension” is entirely appropriate. A player without a contract is called a free agent, and last time I checked Konnor Griffin is not a free agent.
For Love of the Game, I agree with you. It’s sloppy use of words, but is common in our culture.
No, using words as they are clearly defined in the MLB rules is not “sloppy.” Complaining about definitions of words that you don’t want to look up or understand and making it some regressive culture comment is sloppy.
interesting trend lately, I think it is foreshadowing to the expected outcome of the next CBA. Will free agency become a less lucrative endeavor than it has been lately?
I’m not sure about less lucrative, but it is a very interesting trend. I think it’s a win-win move for both sides. I’d kind of love to see some form of restricted FA before six years of service time (maybe as a sort of alternate path thru arbitration for players who don’t want to go Y2Y), but I know that’d have huge ramifications on the business model.
It’s always been a smart thing to do. Not many smart people running teams so it took them a lot of time to catch on.
Listen, I’ve been saying this for years, instead of crying that their MLB welfare checks are too small to compete make a concerted effort & try something else, anything. I don’t see Walmart cutting Target a check every year because they’re eating their lunch. if you can’t compete too bad tough Sh!*, try harder. There’s a word for it, maybe you’ve heard it b4, it’s called capitalism.
If it was pure capitalism then taxpayers wouldn’t have to fund stadiums. But with this caveat – the owners who can convince city governments to help fund a stadium is capitalism, but to the taxpayer that is extortion.
The reason that stadiums are approved by elected officials is that they brings loads of tax money over numerous years into the municipality and the state.
Taxpayer representatives are not stupid or they do not get reelected.
But look at the numbers for each city. Some cities benefit from the extra employment tax and sales tax revenues and some don’t. I have no idea about how Pittsburgh or any other city has lost out or benefited from a stadium deal so I probably shouldn’t be commenting, but looking at the Kansas City Chiefs deal to move across the border for the better deal for the owners makes me think that the taxpayers are just pawns. And how many times do we have to hear about the Pirates moving to another city before we understand that there is some coercion happening?
I have not heard about them moving to another city for 25 years and that is one thing that Nutting does not get credit for.
Pirates have been 50 50 with extensions.
Tabata and Polanco were failures along with Hayes as they were lucky to get rid of him and get somebody decent for him.
McCutcheon and Marte were winners.
Not nearly always a smart thing to do.
Tabata Polanco contracts were so small $ they didn’t factor in at all.
5 years 35 million for Polanco oh wow what big $. He was good for most those years. 2021 only poor year well and the 2 months of 2020. 6 15m for tabata oh no 15 million hole million. Not much more than 1 year of your boy Ozuna. The surplus Cutch Marte provided you could have signed a half dozen more Polanco Tabatas.
You’re missing the point.
It does not matter how big their deals were,and they were both a number of years ago.
Statistically they were both underwater near the middle towards the end of each contract period.
If they flop on this much bigger one Nutting will have an excuse never to spend again.
Is that what you want?
The only thing that Griffin has proved is that he could hit home runs in Spring Training against who ever the over the hill veteran was who he was up against and quite unproven youngsters.
I know that you have a crush on this guy but he has proven nothing at this point in time other than he seems to have the basic talent to become a very good player.
You are a stats geek.The odds are 50 50 based on the ML data base.
“The odds are 50 50 based on the ML data base.” Not true. Not even close.
“Nutting will have an excuse never to spend again.” He has to spend. Doesn’t have a choice. And where is the best place to spend other than international signings and draft. Extensions.
The Pirates were one of the first teams to do this starting with Tabata and McCutcheon.
I gave you facts on the Pirates.
What data base are you referring to for the ML’s to prove that it is not even close to 50 50?
And are you telling Nutting that he has to spend significantly more money going forward no matter how good of a team that Cherington or his successor produces?
Did you not follow baseball in the 1990s? How do you think the Indians Braves remained so good so long? Pirates didn’t invent it. Actually the Pirates were the inspiration for Indians gm after he seen their early 90s team fall apart.
? Is what data are you looking at where 5 tool SS generational talents on succeeded 50 percent of the time? You can be a mlb player with just 1 tool. With 5 there is a lot of room for error. Unless he gets hurt he is going to make it. I guess nothing is 100 percent but it’s in the 90s.
Huntington came from the Indians.
They may have extended Carlos Baerga but I am not aware of anyone else.
The Braves were home grown with judicious trades and fine management.They were very bad in the late 80’s and 1990 before they started winning and free agent Maddox had a lot to do with it.
You may very well be correct about Griffin but he is very young and even though he may have the physical requirements the MLs are way better than the minor leagues and there is much more to baseball than being physically able to play it well.
Indians commit $81.1 million to 3 players
Ken Berger, Associated Press writer
May 21, 1997Updated Jan. 10, 2011, 8:29 p.m. ET
SPORTS
Indians commit $81.1 million to 3 players
Ken Berger, Associated Press writer
May 21, 1997Updated Jan. 10, 2011, 8:29 p.m. ET
CLEVELAND — David Justice, Marquis Grissom and Jim Thome agreed yesterday to contract extensions with the Cleveland Indians, who committed $81.1 million to lock up a new core of talent into the next century.
Justice and Grissom, outfielders acquired in the trade that sent Kenny Lofton to the Atlanta Braves, both signed extensions through 2002. Thome, a 26-year-old first baseman who has spent his whole career in the Indians’ organization, signed through 2001.
“I’ve got to believe that after this, I’ll be done,” said Justice, who was drafted by the Braves and played seven seasons in Atlanta before being traded to Cleveland. “I’ll be ready to retire and go out to pasture.”
Justice, who will make $6 million this year and $6.5 million in 1998, got a $28 million, four-year extension that pays him $7 million a season from 1999-2002 with a $7 million club option for 2003. The Indians will defer $500,000 a year of salary without interest and pay him $200,000 per year from 2004-2013.
Grissom, due to make $4.8 million a year through 1999, agreed to a new $25 million, five-year contract that pays him $5 million a year from 1998-2002. Cleveland has a $5 million option for 2003.
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Thome, due to make $3.6 million in 1998, agreed to a $24.5 million, three-year extension with a $3.5 million signing bonus and $7 million a year in salaries. Cleveland has a $7.5 million option for 2002.
In addition, Thome would get automatic raises in all the remaining years of his contract if he finishes high in MVP voting $500,000 for finishing first or second, $400,000 for third or fourth, $300,000 for fifth or sixth and $200,000 for seventh through 15th.
mlb.com/news/john-hart-paved-way-for-atlanta-brave…
Apples to oranges. It isn’t early 2000’s anymore and inflation plus the business models have changed. You might as well bring Curt Floyd into the conversation; remember him?
I think he probably meant an excuse never to spend at this level again (if the contract is exercised in this case).
AI-Good try but these were all established big league players.
The Pirate players were all youngsters when they got their extensions although not nearly as young and unproven in the MLs as Griffin.
Justice was actually the first key player for the Braves in their last bad year of 1990.
I am not talking about extensions of established players.
I am talking about young players and minor league players.
“Hart rolled the dice by signing Sandy Alomar Jr. and Carlos Baerga to long-term deals before they were eligible for arbitration.”
So yeah they did that as well.
Obviously not minor league players because when veteran impact players like Thome and Justice only cost 7 million why would you take on the risk of minor league players? Today obviously a different story.
The Pirates are not in the Red Sox league as far as revenue.
Anthony is the comparable signing.
A mistake costs the small market team a whole lot more than it would for a major market team.
I hope that for Pirates fans sake that you are right but this puts a whole lot of pressure on a very young mind even before he plays a ML game.
I was wrong 1 time. About 12 years ago I thought I made a mistake
maybe i’m preaching to the choir
but these extensions arent really “extensions”
they add 1 maybe 2 years
the real point of these “extensions” is to avoid paying big bucks during arbitration years. skubal is making $32 mil this season. the cubs and mariners and pirates would like to avoid paying that kind of salary for their young studs down the road. they’re locking up the price more than they’re locking up a player
Cost-controlling arbitration years is definitely part of the calculus, but the real value is buying out would-be FA years for a bargain price. Tucker just got $60M AAV with multiple opt-outs for prime age-curve years. If Griffin produces like people think he might, you’re talking relative cost savings of 70% or more to FA.
Which is why I am surprised that his side would take this deal.
I think it’s hard to say no to nine figures with another crack at FA in your 20s.
Talk to the Astros about Jon Singleton and the Phillies about Mike Kingery.
If Griffin averages 1.5 WAR for his 8 years, with inevitable inflation the Pirates do fine financially.
That’s a player who is not as good as Asdrubal Cabrera was. And Cabrera ended up playing 15 years and almost 2000 games.
And if Griffin is a near All-Star, say Dansby Swanson level, and gets annoyed with the organization and wants out after 5 years, there will be surplus trade value similar to Ronald Acuña or Ketel Marte.
They are usually at least 2 years. Let’s see how many you can name for only 1 year. Why would you give someone guaranteed $ for only 1 year. You could if it’s cheap enough but when you are talking hundreds of millions you want at least 2 years.
It’s about getting 2 or more prime years without committing to paying them until they are 40 years old.
Controlled arbitration is a plus but if the main reason they would just do 6 years instead of 8 or 9.
But they are extensions. Every year a controlled player signs a new 1 year deal. Renewal guys get told “hey here’s this sign it,” arb guys get to negotiate.
Yes they control costs long term and make things predictable, but that doesn’t make them not extensions.
Great point
We’re talking about guys like Arod and Tucker as comparisons to players with zero major league AB’s.
Ridiculous IMO.
Most projections have Konor Griffin hitting for a league-average offense at 20 years old in 400-500 PAs. Catastrophic injuries aside, the chances of him completely busting at the ML are about as low as you can get. Turn this argument around a bit: what do you think Nationals would’ve offered Soto pre-debut for 2-3 extra years of control knowing what he got now in FA?
projections had Brandon Wood as multi-time all star
Wood is a great comp. Number one prospect that completely flopped
Brandon Wood was a #1 prospect twenty years ago. Of course prospects bust, it’s baseball, but how much relevance can you draw from a college draftee to a teenager who is dominating three levels of the minors thus far? I get some of you are risk-averse and that’s fine, but this is the only way smaller media markets (or cheaper owners) are going to compete with the big boys in free agency under the current CBA model is to take some calculated risks.
Also to be clear, I’m talking about projection models, not baseball writers giving the eye test.
BREAKING NEWS: projections are sometimes right, and they are sometimes wrong. HOT OFF THE PRESSES.
I liked Brenton Wood a lot better.
Just give me a little sign.
KG > Wood very much so. Not remotely close. And projection people at least public ones aren’t very good at projections.
Weird how all the haters on the Colt Emerson extension aren’t speaking up here. Both great players, and it’s smart to lock them up. Never will understand the people against that. Get it done Pirates!
Great players for limited times in the minor leagues.
Small and mid market teams.
And a LA Dodger fan talking.
Great big difference in market sizes and annual revenues.
So what I’m a Dodger fan? That’s irrelevant here. We’ll likely do the same with De Paula and/or Hope when they get close to MLB ready
So what means that you a fan of a team with the most money in baseball and mistakes can be easily buried.
The Carroll and Anthony deals got the team 3 years of free agent control. Which is good.
The Emmerson deal got the team 2 years of free agent control, which is less good.
I’m hoping for the Pirates fan base his deal falls with the former group.
Emerson’s deal has a team option for a ninth (3rd) year.
That’s assuming he ended 2026 with a full year of service time. Were talking a couple weeks in the minors and not winning the ROY for that not to be the case.
Likeliest outcome seems like him being a Super-2 and reaching free agency after 2032 since they opted to not have him on the opening day roster.
Unless he finished top-3 in rookie of the year and gets the full year anyway
You get an extension, you get an extension l, every prospect gets an extension!
Pirates want to extend Lando Griffin’s brother instead of extending Paul Skenes?
Skenes is probably already out of reach for a small market.
Agreed. And yet, I have no doubt that his late season comment about wanting to play for a contending team in Pittsburgh got ownership to open the checkbook. Did the front office see this as some glimmer of hope that putting a good team behind him might sway his thinking?
It’s nice be naive and dream, I guess
I think that your point is well taken Washed.
Even Nutting gets tired of losing at a certain point,and he realized that spending money would probably make them a competitive team.
Nutting spent $ to make $. He had a team that with a small financial investment could be a winning team. That sells tickets. That gets him more sponsorships. Can sell his TV rights for more $.
And the commissioner office helped him pay for some of this. And if the attendance and sponsorships do increase the commissioner office will reward him with even more $.
I get it but at least offer him something before next to nothing in a trade in 2 years.
You risk insulting him and burning the bridge forever if you just offer “something.”
They waited too long on Skenes, that extension would need to be like $300M-$400M now to get his attention.
Plus pitchers are also completely different. It’s significantly more likely that one injury can change a career forever. Not saying it’s very likely, just much more likely than a position player. One UCL injury can spiral into compensation injuries or possible revisions, one bad case of TOS can end it all.
So the comparison you’d have to make would be locking up Skenes to a 9 figure deal while no one had any clue if his arm would hold up to his stuff.
Look at Jacob deGrom, now imagine you’re paying him the backloaded portion of a long extension during the years where he was too good of a pitcher for his own body to keep up. Skenes is bigger yes so I’d feel a little more comfortable, but not too much.
He’s likely to leave anyway. They do this with all their pitchers. Chandler and Jones won’t be far behind Skenes to be traded.
They should at least try to get the lost year of control back.That would give them 5 more years of control including this one.
It’s all on Skenes. If he is open and willing to do an extension it will be done. I ain’t feeling that vibe from him but my gut is irrelevant. His trade return with 2 years remaining would be fantastic.
Skenes will sign for an extra year if the money is right and the Pirates continue to spend money to win.
He would still be in his twenties for a multi year deal with opt outs from one of the big market teams.
I think that money is important to him but he is also a loyal person and if he is offered a four year contract at the end of this year that is a guarantee for lifetime wealth he would be stupid to pass it by.
Pitchers can lose it very quickly with serious arm injuries.A known high salary is just as attractive to the player as it is to the club.For pitchers I think even more so.
The extra year would only be the one that was lost because they had to bring him up to the MLs.
It would also be a known entity in case the Pirates do not contend and decide to trade him with two years left.
Good for Pittsburgh and the kid.
Pirates currently control Griffin for 6 years and at most he’ll make is $70M.
A 8 year extension better have some options if it’s $130M as the Pirates are getting the final two years for $30M. VERY few players are worth $30/yr. OR go 9 for $135. One more year changes all the math.
What Tucker get a year 50 60 70 million. No idea but it lot. Don’t you think a 5 tool SS CF is more valuable than a often injured right fielder?
Ah! Like the smell of new flowers blooming from their wintery sleep, the spring contract extension fever is filling the air.
There goes Skenes then
Doesn’t effect Skenes extension chances at all.
This isn’t an April Fools joke, this is psychological warfare.
Extensions for all! Prospects and young players rejoice! Woe for owners and GMs!
Woe for GMs? For having young studs on cost controlled, long term deals, making future budgets more predictable?
Not only did Konnor stink up spring.. he… well.. stunk up spring 😀 yeah i know spring isn’t much to worry about really only matters some if someone is on that thin line with someone else or something.
I have mixed feelings. Its a risk doing such an extension but huge reward if it avoids arbitration for a MVP caliber player.
I would be hesitant but if i where going to do it I would go all in on duration and go 10 then club options. Probably have to be some player perks in there too. Would be closer to the 200m mark but if they are fairly sure hes the real deal then seriously mike trout him up and lock him in for ever.
Pirates don’t care about arbitration they want to buy some free agent years.
Griffin only had 11 plate appearances during spring training
Griffin was 7-41 this spring
I’m not sure how he “stunk it up” but being sent down seemed prudent, at least
He had 4 HR in 11 plate appearances, yet batted under the Mendoza line? Your math ain’t mathing.
If he’s on keyboard the 4’s right above the 1
Paul-Do you really think that he had only 11 at bats in 26 spring training games?
Something about today tells me this isn’t actually gonna happen.
Nahhh… it’s happening. Been in the news cycle too long and neither side has refuted the rumors.
I kind of look like at it like MLB’s answer to NIL money going to kids in college. Arch Manning made $7M last year. The world’s gone crazy
I predict this will be signed, sealed, and delivered next Monday, 4/6, and Griffin will be promoted and start at SS next Tuesday, 4/7 vs Padres.
Well Scott, Triolo is kind of making it an easy prediction, no? 😉
Triolo could be batting 1.000 this season, and he still isn’t blocking Griffin from coming up.
Triolo still has options. When Griffin comes up, Triolo can go back down and try to learn how to hit
Yeah. I meant his hitting
He looks lost at bat.
I will guess by this weekend. Get in news cycle for opening home stand. Build up anticipation excitement then announce it officially. Tomorrow Thursday off day can have a big press conference. After winning Reds series, opening day coming, extending KG Nutting Williams shouldn’t face any negative tuff ?’s. If I was their advisor that’s what I would recommend.
Triolo is a streaky hitter.
He is really not a shortstop so he is playing out of position.
Not sure why he is not playing third base which is his natural position.
He will not be sent to the minors again but will become the utility man like he has been sooner rather than later.
You have to believe they will hold off on formalizing the extension until the day after he comes up so that he would be eligible for a PPI pick.
Aye, buccos! You be earnin’ treasure by signin’ Griffin!
Ifs a crime he’s not in the big leagues already.
Bro is like peak Mike Trout playing shortstop
No offense, but I’m really tired of hearing about owners not being able to afford players. The Pirates were purchased for $92 million in ’96, they are valued around $1.3 billion. If the team isn’t making $ these valuations wouldn’t be going as astronomical as they have… and if they really aren’t making $ then Nutting would be a fool for not cashing in a profit of $1.29 billion dollars.
Stop crying poverty for the owners. These are business people making business decisions. Small market or big- hold your team’s ownership accountable.
No offense but that post is a load of garbage 😀 (/s)
The story of pirates ownership from the 90’s to the mid teens is way more interesting and provides insight into whey they are the way they are. Brief Wall of text…
McClatchy lead the purchase of the team in the 90s. I believe the Nutting Family had a small stake in there. For years the Pirates franchise didn’t do well on the field and worse financially. The owners were losing substantial money for years.
It became so bad that the MLB was rumored to consider taking action in the teams finances. The Nutting family issued an additional loan/investment to the franchise to get by and bide time to fix it. Which didn’t happen.
With the additional investments it increased the Nutting families share and eventually made them the largest stake holders as that investment value increased making them the principal owners. Bob was/is the choice to speak for them.
Bob didn’t take over right away but when he did everything changed and seemed to focus on getting the franchise stable enough to stay in the region and of course the PNC Park agreement played in to that too :-).
There was a data leak of finances at one point. I think it was around 2010 that showed the team was starting to make money again but were paying the owners instead of players. At the time the reasoning was that the owners were losing money so long that they deserved some relief.
“Shortly” after that Payrolls starting going up. Probably partially due to the leak and pressure from the public. Not to league average levels but still increased. When the pirates were doing well, they had a core of young guys and potential spending to upgrade didn’t make sense.
After a series transactions that took the pirates out of any sort of contention the rebuild era began and failed a few times.. the team now thinks it will work and shown willingness to throw money at it.
MLB teams get to define ‘profit’ however they want. They are smart- profit equals more taxes… so they bury expenses, amortize player contracts, and allocate costs in ways that suppress the number. Even with all that accounting smoke, Forbes still shows the Pirates making $40–50M a year on $300M+ revenue with a $113M payroll.
If they can show a profit after cooking the books downward, they can easily afford another $50–60M in payroll. And if Travis Williams is right that they ‘take no dollars out,’ which he said to sports illustrated…then they should be spending even more.
I’ve always loved baseball, am not a Pirate fan but have been rooting for them to make some moves for a long time as they always seem to have some fresh players who are interesting and could build around like Garret Cole, McCutchen, Glassnow, Meadows, etc but never capitalized on their presence.
forbes has a good shot at being wrong. With baseball its almost always a guessing game. Other than the Braves of course. Are you referencing the operating income? “Cooking the books” did make me laugh. we don’t even know what books they are using.
There have been a handful of reports that the franchise is near the red. It was also insinuated some other franchises are in similar situations in some degree. The CBA and the lost of the TV contracts hurt a handful of teams pretty hard. Some teams got in on their own sports channels. The Pirates and Penguins did something similar.. wonder how much of that was cooking the books 😀
Of the players you mentioned only one was consistently good for the pirates and that was Cutch. the team screwed up all the others and they didn’t hit their stride until they left
the TL;DR version, The Pirates problem has not been payroll.
nacb-see Joe’s response since he is familiar with the history of the Pirates.
I do not think that anyone is crying poverty for billionaires in this country.
The marked increase in value of franchises increases their bottom line convincingly.
But their annual revenue stream with a reasonable % return of the CURRENT VALUE is probably what they are looking for in return and it may not be all that much more than savvy investors can make.
They will make their money when they sell the team but it seems to me that the taxes could be very substantial at that point too.
I am not anywhere near that level and am no tax expert.
And smart owners are not going to pay for a superstar if they have a 90 loss team so they can reduce it to an 86 loss team.
Sorry guys been traveling but I just disagree.
The valuation of a franchise doesn’t increase without a reason that isn’t how economics work.
If the franchise is losing money or breaking even the business wouldn’t sell for more money.
I love that the narratives of what trouble the rich guys had in the early 2000s had to do with anything. Remember when the Dodgers were crying poverty when the McCourts owned them???? Then magically the team some how found a way to increase their revenue after new owners came in… COME ON! Open your eyes.
Baseball almost took control over the Dodgers as well and that is because McCourts were using the team as a personal checking book more than likely and overly leveraging the team for their personal endeavors.
Baseball makes money. You are a sucker if you think otherwise.
Nac.
I really hope you are not comparing the Dodgers .. uh… troubles.. to the pirates
Valuations are more than just money, obviously. if it was just money those dodgers would not have been sold for 2billion back then while filing. The problem was not baseball problems.
Pirates problem has been more of a baseball one. the past 10ish years… increasing spending to anywhere near league average wouldn’t have fixed the problems.
One thing BC knows how to do is spend money to win the WS like he did in boston. The problem with that is players really don’t want to play in Pittsburgh even though we got the coolest color scheme 🙂
Dodgers operated like a small market team for a number of years under the other ownership. They are advantages in terms of location desirability but big name players don’t want to go, or stay, anywhere that they know they can not compete consistently.
I’m not asking for the owners to spend like the Mets, Dodgers or Yankees (some should *cough* cough * Giants) because they aren’t in that type of market. But they can afford more and really should be a lot more aggressive with young talent.
How much do you think Skenes is worth to the club this season in marketing, jersey and ticket sales and whatever other ways he impacts revenue directly? I’m pretty sure this year and last years values alone could have made up his future salary wants/needs.
Cheers,
Nick
The dodgers had (actual) corruption issues among other things that lead to MLB stepping in unrelated to baseball product
The pirates have baseball problems getting players to play well or bad scouting. no amount of money on players payroll would fix, unless they did do like a bigger market team and of course they can’t, at least not sustainably.
Skenes is still in the small market, players playing in a small market area also small market dollar signs for the franchise. Sure more than before probably but …
As was mentioned, the CBA and the TV deals really hurt many teams and the whole, “They can afford too” has less weight behind it as it used too. Next CBA I expect some significant changes to finances in some fashion to keep letting them try to compete.
I just disagree with the blind defense of Pitts can’t spend more more and make changes. It is a losing mentality and just doesn’t belong in competitive sports.
For your point about the Dodgers… the Dodgers payroll dipped into the $80k range after spending in the 100k+ range. Immediately after the sale of the team, the spend went into $200k/year. All I hear was there was no profit so they couldn’t pay more then a new group came in and BOOM… the payroll went up and keeps climbing. And the new ownership group is an investment firm… they aren’t spending recklessly without profit.
Secondly, you act like all of LA cares about the Dodgers, they don’t. There is major competitors within the same market for professional sports. The also are competing with major entertainment providers such as Disney and Universal for the family spend.
I would say that if you reallllllly look into the the financial aspect the corporate sponsorships are the big differences in each of the markets. The Pirates have the Steelers, Penguins and colleges… they also are about 150 miles away from a competing baseball team. So they really have an opportunity of becoming the fabric of a metro area of about 1.7 million people. I think that is enough of a possible marketshare to capitalize on… they will never spend like the LA/NY but a team that isn’t committed to winning won’t captures the hearts and minds of 1.7 million people (or a meaningful chunk of them).
You have one of the unicorns in the sport as well as the highest prospect in the game… this is the opportunity to give the community to create a sense of stability with top of the market talent. This would serve as a solid building block for predictable future revenue.
But whatever… I’m just a fan who would like some resurgence from the teams that were great in my youth. I’ve always loved the Dodgers but really love competition more. Teams need to be motivated to compete.
First. By 80k do you mean million? Just want to be sure. If so then my not about LA stands. To be fair, I don’t dig too deep into them just remembered the controversy
I’m not sure you understand the pirates situation over the past 30 years especially.
I was of a similar opinion 10ish years ago then I ran into someone who covered the team professionally, they said look deeper. Point is, it’s not as crazy as people say for the headlines… conspiracy hat time, Nutting family owns news papers at compete with those putting out the headlines:-)
Yeah sorry meant millions but the point still stands.
I’d just stay skeptical of people who are close to the team- they have more of a reason to drink the koolaid. Taking a step back- valuations don’t magically increase regardless of the profitability aspect.
I agree they are run poorly and it is easy to just light $ on fire in waste but the pirates have at least 2 very large marketable players who can generate interest and revenue for years to come. It’d be a shame if they trip over themselves at this point- the team should be sold if the screw this up.
Skenes? Bubba? You guys interested in some guaranteed $ right no? How bout you Hernandez?
Paul I doubt.. his FA contract will likely break records, guarantee on an extra year or two could mean 100s of millions for him. Reward probably worth the risk.
Signed. Nine years $140mil…
After reading the comments (mostly about cheap Nutting) let me offer this theory: it takes time to save up for big spends so maybe the years of penny pinching were to set the team up for this moment. He and management are perhaps calculating that attendance and gate receipts will rise as will various endorsement and other peripheral revenue streams that will pay for this (not quite done) contract and future contracts. It would be pretty hard to borrow more money than you make and have to pay the interest costs; easier to plunk down $140 million on a bond that pays the salary and spares the interest (as I learned on this site from a really smart commenter while discussing the Dodger’s ability to afford their expenses). Hope I am right and the strategy works. Get out to the ballpark and enjoy this! And who is going to be sent down?
Penny pinching is because it didn’t make sense to spend $. And he was spending $ you just didn’t see it on the field.
But he was also making good money too.
And he is eventually upon team sale going to get a windfall.
As usual in this Country it is somewhere in the middle of the extreme opinions.
The reason for the increased payroll the past couple years is more of a CBA thing. 2026 though, they have the talent that can go somewhere. Does not mean that talent will deliver but its the best shot for years and they actually got pieces that may help push them over.
this CBA makes it so you have to put more of the ‘revenue sharing’ on the MLB field rather than other player development or facilities like they did before.
It appears they are doing just that. But we will have to see.
Now try to extend Chandler
Honestly, this feels kind of horse$@!/ to me on the part of Pittsburgh. They send him down, strengthen their bargaining position and then negotiate an extension on the best terms possible for the team. This kid is gonna be a star and if he signs a deal right now it’s gonna be well below what he could get after he establishes himself in the majors.
I hope the kid turns them down, puts up good numbers and forces them to bring him up.
When is last time 19 year old made opening day roster? How many have there been before that is semi modern times?
Good teaching development opportunity. He didn’t have a great spring. Little adversity is good. Send to AAA see how he responds. Let him get some familiarity there in case he has to do injury rehab in future. 6 games not the end of the world. Now he can debut in front of your fans.
Contract is done. He wanted that $. He wasn’t getting more $ unless he waited 7 years. No reason to risk that. He’s rich and set for life if he isn’t reckless.
Plus if he is promoted before he signs the contract then the Bucs get the promotion supplemental draft pick (if he is ROY or top 3 MVP). Not a guarantee, but they sacrificed the pick on how they managed Skenes. If he signs before being promoted then they sacrifice the draft pick opportunity as I understand it.
15.55 million aav. I hope this dude is like the Wizard on Defense and hits like Tony[Gwynn]
Absolutely crazy hasn’t even played a major league game seen so many of these guys that are gonna be sure hits and then they fail Mark Fridrich, Bob Horner
I never seen any fail. It could happen but it’s unlikely but someone probably will one day.
A number have and hopefully Griffin will not be one.
Pirates fans should not expect him to be another Honus Wagner on day one either.
He is definitely no Honus Wagner. KG has much more power and more athletic than Honus.
I’ll take 3420 hits and a 328 average anytime.
You been active. KG news and 500 record got ya fired up
I’m usually active.
I won’t get fired up until the second half of the season if they are competitive for a wild card or the division title.
I do give them credit for trying this year and spending some money.
Griffin looks like a stud but he is only 19 and even though mature he is only 19.
The Pirates do not have a true veteran leader on this team and have not had one since the middle of the last decade.
They have a big problem with Cruz in CF.
Ozuna cannot hit let alone hit the home runs which was the reason that he was signed and for so much money.
Their defense is mediocre at best.
They do not have any pitching depth in AAA and their best players are not yet at that level.
They are better than they have been for ten years and much better than half of that time.They have finally given hope to their fans including me.
I have them at 84 wins.
But I do not get fired up unless I see pretty long legged redheads who smile with me and not at me.