Despite the perpetual demand for quality starting pitching around the league, Edwin Jackson’s market has been relatively quiet this winter. If you sort through our archive, you’ll see just a handful of items involving the right-hander dating back to October. That’s not typical for a Scott Boras client.
With Gio Gonzalez and Mat Latos both traded, C.J. Wilson signed, and the Yu Darvish bidding complete, Jackson’s market figures to pick up some steam soon. Big spenders like the Yankees and Red Sox need pitching help, and mid-range revenue clubs like the Blue Jays and Rockies have made it known that they’d like to add a starter. Even the Marlins continue to look for high-end pitching despite landing Mark Buehrle earlier this offseason.
Jackson, 28, is one of the few remaining free agent innings eaters left on the market. His last three seasons have been very comparable to John Danks’, who just landed a five-year, $65MM contract extension from the White Sox. Jackson could reasonably ask for a similar contract on the open market, but who will give it to him?
I think Cards trade Lohse and Westbrook, and make a surprise signing of E-Jax
if they trade both of those guys, it won’t be that big of a suprise
i would rather have the draft pick and let Lynn start, unless Ejax wants a 2yr deal which i doubt.
i have heard he wants 5 yr 60 mil……..
It will be surprising if they’re actually able to trade Lohse and Westbrook, especially with Kuroda, Oswalt, and EJax still on the FA market.
Lohse has already said he would invoke his no-trade clause. Westbrook has a NTC as well.
I don’t know how I feel about Jackson in pinstripes versus someone like Kuroda. It’s the battle of the young, yet inconsistent pitcher who can either be brilliant or downright awful versus the veteran Japanese pitcher who has been a marker of stability but in the NL.
Something tells me Jackson would just end up being a young version of AJ and the last thing we need is to fill question marks with more question marks.
Oh as if Kuroda pitching in the NL means anything. You Yankees (and AL) fans can disparage the NL all you want but it shows an extremely low baseball IQ. You should be considering how pitcher friendly his park and overall division (NL West) is. Funny you bring up Edwin Jackson who has been far better in the AL than NL, but I won’t expect you to know that.
Dr Jeckyl says ”
You Yankees (and AL) fans can disparage the NL all you want but it shows an extremely low baseball IQ”.
followed by
Mr. Hyde who says “You should be considering how pitcher friendly his park and overall division (NL West) is”.
It is not the ballparks that make the difference as much as the lineups. In the NL pitchers get a break pitching to another pitcher in the #9 position. There are professional designated hitters like David Ortiz in the AL East that make the line up tougher.
Recent history shows that NL pitchers like Javier Vasquez (twice), Randy Johnson in 2005, Kevin Brown, Roger Clemens and even Andy Pettitte in 2007 have better NL seasons before pitching in the AL East.
Javier Vazquez is an inconsistent pitcher, not a guy that couldn’t handle AL hitting. Randy Johnson played the majority of his career in the AL…and how about guys like Cliff Lee who did better in Cleveland than his first year in Philly and what about his time in Seattle? Halladay being just as dominant in the AL as in the NL? Pedro as a Red Sox vs. as a Met? How about the fact that 3 of the 5 guys you mentioned were on the Yankees when they failed to live up to expectations – ya know, the biggest stage in the world?
NL vs. AL is overrated. For every guy you can argue was better in the NL one can find a guy that did the same thing vice versa. It’s about the player, not the DH.
” it’s about the player, not the DH.”
That is one of the funniest posts have ever seen made here by anyone.
You could never, ever post any facts to remotely back that up, especially considering the grand canyon stadiums that litter many NL cities now and in the past, plus lack of the DH over the last 37 years.
I believe you just said dominant pitchers are dominant regardless of AL/NL. I think we’re talking about Edwin Jackson in this thread?
Are you really comparing two HOF pitchers like Randy Johnson and Pedro Martinez and two of the best pitchers of the last 5 years with Edwin Jackson and Javier Vazquez?
Hint…any great pitcher will dominate wherever they go.
Fact….lesser pitchers who are NOT true aces tend to struggle moving from the NL to the AL East.
I’m not saying that EJax would implode (or any other non Cy Young pitcher) but to say there’s no difference between the AL and NL is simply a joke.
^ding ding ding, someone gets it
Fine, Beckett, Haren, Scherzer, Greinke?
I picked an average NL team in a hitter’s park (the Cincinnati Reds). The Reds had 361 PA by pitchers and 6328 total plate appearances. So for the Reds, the pitcher comes to bat an average of 2.2 times per game
I’d rather face Frank Viola than Edgar Martinez, even if it’s “only” 2.2 times per game.
You could even take this further by stating, the Oriole opposition would rather face Pedro Viola. Who I am sure doesn’t remind anybody of Frank Viola (No Relation).
2011 AL Pitching-4.08(era),4.05(FIP),4.03(xFip)
NL Pitching-3.82,3.85,3.87
Pitchers clearly have an easier time in the NL.
I’m not sure why everyone is getting upset about this, it’s pretty clear you should rather want to pitch in the NL. The Padres are probably a big reason for that but nonetheless there are two sides to every coin.
By being a hitter in the AL you have more depth to work with behind and in front of you and you’re allowed to be a “free swinging” team, not saying all AL teams are. Being a hitter in the AL is just a better job to have, not taking away from what DHs do, but it’s not pinch hitting and it’s not recognizing needing to move a pitcher into scoring position.
What condesending dick
Lets check the math here…
One league has 1 basically free out (and sometimes 2 or 3) every 9 hitters.
One league has 8 or 9 guys who can hit, in every order.
The NL is viewed as “lesser” because they give up free outs thanks to letting pitchers attempt to hit, and also usually have a defensive-minded/not good hitter in every lineup. The AL has teams that go 1-9 with guys who can hit well and OPS over 650 (and in the Yanks/Boston cases, 750). The AL is stronger because of this reason alone, and some lesser pitchers can get away a lot more in the league with the free out than they would with the one without it. No one is saying all NL pitchers stink, as that’s not true, but there are pitchers who can succeed in the NL easier than they could in the AL.
Its just math. 9 real deal guys who can actually hit is harder to deal with than 6 or 7.
plus the N.L. plays more of those “small ball” type of games too….that oughta play more into this debate as well….
Mike Scoscia begs to differ.
you have a point but isn’t that more the exeption rather than the rule?
I’m thinking the Jays would be a good team for Jackson.
By “good team” I think you mean in “desperate need” a of quality starting pitcher. That said, based on both AA’s player acquisition blueprint and lack of free agent spending this offseason, I see the Blue Jays chances of going after Jackson as 0%! The Jays will likely pick up someone on the scrap heap like Brad Penny or Jeff Francis is they can’t acquire someone of significant quality via trade.
Nah he sucked with Toronto last time…dude did nothing for us…
If EJax gets to the point of a 1-2 year deal, I could see the Jays signing him.
Of course, if he’s at the 1 year deal point, he’s best off finding someone with a pitcher’s park to throw money at him for a prove-yourself type pact then putting up inflated numbers.
No way the Royals are going to overpay that drastically for Jackson. A 3 year deal is too long for someone with his lack of consistency.
Gil Meche: 5 years, 55 million. Meche was no more consistent. Not saying the Royals will do the same with Jackson, just that they’re not adverse to signing guys for longer or more than they should have.
i say the cardinals resign him they are looking to upgrade pitching
Lohse and Westbrook have NTC’s, and Lohse has said he would invoke his. Plus they both make about $18 million combined this year. I don’t think it is happening. If one happens to waive his NTC, I see Lynn promoted to the rotation. IMO, Jackson is only marginally better than either Lohse/Westbrook.
The Yanks need a #2 starter, preferable left handed which Jackson is not. He is a #3, 4 or 5 and they already have enough of those.
Jackson is only 28 years old, with some upside. He may very well be a solid number 2 in most rotations.
He definitely isn’t a #2 but he is better than a #5. If you look at his numbers over the last 3 years they scream solid #3 or #4 at worst and he’s good for 200 IP. At a 3/$36 the Yanks should take him. I love Hughes and Nova but can we say either is a sure thing for 200 IP and a below 4.00 FIP? And Garcia can’t be counted on to be better than Jackson neither.
Paul Byrd was for a brief period (just an example) a 200IP guy and nobody ever called him a #3, much less #2.
Just because this guy *might* be able to actually learn how to throw strikes for a few seasons after he signs does not make him a #2 starter. Plenty of 200IP guys in the past have been innings eaters at best and Jackson am not even sure qualifies at that with his history of control lapses.
Really? Comparing Paul Byrd to Edwin Jackson? How many times did Paul Byrd post a FIP under 4.00? Exactly once during his age 35 season. How many times has Paul Byrd had a GB% over 40%? Never. Jackson has accomplished both in the last 2 seasons and he’s only 28. Comparing EJ to Paul Byrd is an insult and I’m not sure why you would do that. That’s as apples to oranges as it gets.
EJ absolutely has his issues, which is why I’m not suggesting anyone sign him for what Danks got for his extension.
As far as his issues go, his control has improved over the last few years overall. His K/9 has improved 4 years in a row. His BB/9 from 2006-2008 was a bout 5/9 IP. His BB/9 from 2009-2011 was way down to 3.02/9 IP. I think ppl are living in the past when they view him. Instead, look at his progressive growth. Is he still a risk? Sure. Is he a SAFER risk based upon his latest trends? Absolutely.
It was an example of people who go out, give 200IP and are classified as #3, even #2. Not any further being thrown big dollars and stick to it.
Just like Wake was never given big dollars when he was throwing 200 IP. Just because innings guys with control issues can do it, you don’t give them big dollars..Age issues or whatever.
Guess some team is going to have to sign him, as am through with even mentioning anything about jackson. Seems enough have gotten enamored with something about him, but have never seen it myself.
Ok but the only thing Byrd has in common with EJ IS the durability this far. EJ is MUCH better than Byrd has been (in the last 2 or 3 years) and to compare anything other than their durability is a joke. Byrd was NEVER mistaken as a mid rotation type by anyone.
Byrd is like a Jon Garland who is like a Wakefield.
Byrd-Garaland-Wakefield-Edwin Jackson. One of those names stands out as being way better than the others.
Carl Pavano was also a good idea.
Wow…comparing EJ to a guy who pitched a total of 145 IP over the length of his 4 year deal. Brilliant. EJ has averaged 200 IP in each of the last 4 years. Just say you hate EJ and keep it moving.
Pavano’s disastrous Yankee performances had more to do with his inability to stay healthy and pitch to his ability than it had to do with anything else.
You missed the point badly, then used EJ’s pre-contract IP number compared to Pavano’s post-contract IP numbers. I’ll bet part of the reason Pavano got that contract from the Yankees was because he showed EJ like stability.
And you completely missed my point. The reason why Pavano’s deal was so horrible was because he was injured 85% of the length of his deal. His performance suffered when he did pitch BECAUSE of his time missed, rust, etc. It’s not like we signed him and he took the ball and simply stunk.
Every deal for a pitcher has inherent risks. However, people are simply judging him more by his pre-2009 numbers than the last 3 years.
Again, not saying anyone should offer him a “Danks” deal but if he comes down to 3/$36 then the Yanks should be on him if they still have intentions of improving the rotation from the outside.
My Point: Pavano was a bad idea.
Your Point: Pavano got hurt, but was still a good idea, like EJax is a good idea. Just look what EJAX did the last three years!!!!! NO WAY EJAX GETS HURT AND TURNS INTO AN EQUALLY BAD IDEA!!!!!
Are you from the future?
Not saying they should be favored to land Jackson, but why aren’t the Twins a choice? There were multiple reports earlier in the offseason that the Twins were indeed interested in him. Royals, really? Lol
BTW I voted for the Blue Jays
I think he’ll be back with the Cardinals. They have some $ to spend now. Already brought in Beltran, go ahead and sign Lohse, and then make a splash at the deadline and make another run at a title. I wouldn’t mind an Angels vs. Cardinals World Series. Haha
edwin jackson is only good for a 1 year contract with performance incentives totaling 8 mil. whatever team who does sign him are desperate idiots who will end up like the dodgers mets or cubs
You really don’t know what you’re talking about.
Are you trying to say a five tool fool doesn’t know his stuff?
I think he’d be a good pitcher for the Yanks since he does better in the AL – then they can trade A Headcase Burnett to the Royals for Soria or a bucket of chicken or something
I think AJ needs to pitch in middle of nowhere place. Edwin has no hit stuff when hes on..Id love to see him in the pinstripes…see how well he can handle NY pressure
deleted.
I think since the Nl has no dh and doesn’t have to spend that money they can improve there lineup elsewhere so theres no real difference vs al
Where’s the “Who cares” options?
For the Yankees I think it would be wise to stay away from anything that is more than 1 year. They are primarily competing with the Red Sox and Rays until the playoffs.. Both of those teams haven’t made any real improvements this offseason. Wait and see if anything comes around for the trade deadline and give the prospects a good look since well I think this year they may be able to afford it.
hard to say though…
Montero is a good upgrade for the Yanks, they get younger and add a good hitter. I think the Yanks will try to add a starting pitcher if they can find one to fit in the #2 spot. Garza would be perfect, I would offer the Cubs Betances, Warren, and Laird.
I think they pass on Betances. His walk rate is troublesome.
If that’s the best offer Theo gets this off season he should wait for the trade deadline. With 2 wild cards in each league, the buyers will out number the sellers. Gives three more months to scout prospects. And with another year of control after 2012, Garza could be traded next off season. Puts teams with really low payrolls in the mix. If KC is close at the deadline, they can afford garza’s salary for the rest of the year AND trade him after 2012. Get a prospect rebate…
i think theo would want more…what you are saying is right but gm’s are guarding starting pitching like a reserve bank
Jackson has geat potential but fulfilling that potential has been very difficult. He is like many players, great atheletes but needs a better understanding of the necessitites it takes to be a winner consistantly. He should sign with the Cardinals for one year and let Duncan teach him or with a team with a similar pitching coach who can show him how to win. Then go for the long term contract.
When I was a college student, I recall asking a well repected professor, how to consistantly make good grades, and his response was that there was no secret, you just had to learn what it takes and then do it everyday. I think pitching is the same thing. Learn what it takes (and someone like Duncan can teach you how that is done) and then be consistant in your effort each and every time. Some days will be better than others, some days not as good, but your worst effort should be acceptable.
Westbrook could be an expensive long man for one year.
I’ve said this many times but I’ll say it again in a different way:
Think of your teams starting rotation, then think of it with Edwin Jackson and Roy Oswalt in it. Then say out loud “Wait, why hasn’t my team signed these two yet?”
The markets for E-Jax & Roy are criminally underrated, its absurd. Good money will say both of them will put up a higher WAR than Gio Gonzalez next year, and Oswalt has said he’ll take a 1 year deal.
I mean, dang. Roy Oswalt. Is struggling to find a suitor. This is just crazy to me. He’s basically a lock for 3.5-5.0 WAR next year. Even if you take a flyer on him, he’s going to give you front end numbers. Why are people not into it???
I can’t believe 8% of the voters think he’ll sign with the Tigers. They have their top 4 spots in the rotation locked down, and a few starting pitching prospects knocking on the door.
Zero chance they sign an expensive multiyear starter.
I think that maybe the Jays will try at least to get him. If he is truly OK with a 2-3 year deal, and AA sees no good trade route for him to take, it seems that he could be the backup/F.A option to a SP. He would be a great addition to a growing rotation, [Romero, Morrow, EJax, Cecil, and Alverez (although the last two spots are still open for Drebek and McGowan and Laffey has a Spring Training invite)] and who knows maybe we will also trade for a pitcher like AA always does..