4:14pm: Pirates GM Neal Huntington explained in a statement that the team offered as much as it could without losing future picks.
“Our final offer exceeded the available bonus pool money and was essentially up to the last dollar we could offer prior to falling into the second tier penalty which would have resulted in the loss of a first round draft selection," Huntington said. "While, as we have shown in past years, we are willing to be aggressive with our financial offer, we simply did not feel it was in the best interest of the organization to forfeit our first round selection in the 2013 amateur draft."
The Pirates will select ninth overall next year, ESPN.com's Buster Olney tweets.
4:05pm: The Pirates did not reach a deal with first round pick Mark Appel, Jim Callis of Baseball America reports (on Twitter). The right-hander established himself as one of the country's top amateurs as a member of Stanford's starting rotation. He was considered a candidate for the first overall pick, but fell to the Pirates at eighth overall.
Appel stands 6'5" and his repertoire includes a fastball that has touched 98 mph plus a "nasty" slider, according to Baseball America. MLB recommended a bonus of $2.9MM for the eighth overall selection. Scott Boras is Appel's advisor.
Thank God Selig changed those draft rules. Almost had the Pirates building a nice team. Would hate to take away revenue from NY, Boston or LA
Yeah because it hurts the Pirates so much to have two first round picks next year.
They “earned” the #8 pick. They will get the #9 pick next year. That hurts.
Considering Appel was supposed to go 1 or 2 this year and fell as far as he did, I wouldn’t necessarily say it would “hurt” the buccos. I am glad we didn’t overpay for him and loose future picks. Best of luck to Appel and Boras!
No it definitely hurts them. They lose a year of development of what is supposed the #1 asset a losing team earns to turn around their fortunes (accesses to elite young talent). In addition MLB is regulating the only pool where low revenue teams can access top talent competitively, while offering VERY little regulation in free agency where larger market teams have access to elite talent in ways that many small market teams cant.
-Large Market Team Fan
They could in theory apply the Appel money to free agent spending in the offseason. I’m not sure how this helps the Pirates sign TWO 1st round picks next year now. Then again, they can draft and spend the money on the top picks…but they’ll need draft college guys who don’t have much leverage after the first round.
$3.8M can buy a good bench player on the FA market, that really helps.
And that’s absolutely critical to winning in the NL…..always nice to have a good veteran lefty bat to face a teams righty closer in the ninth.
yeah in a weaker draft class and no chance of a guy like this dropping to them
Yes it benefits the big market teams soooooo much that they can no longer expect better players to fall lower in the draft due to their ability spend infinite amounts of money on draft picks.
…wait.
yes it does because pittsburgh cant continuously go out and spend hundreds of millions in free agency like the big markets
This case is rare and in the future this system is going to greatly benefit teams like the Pirates.
how? the nats and pirates absolutely loaded up the past few years under the old cba and built great farms. thats literally impossible to do now
They knew it would have been a tough sign they should of saved more money on their other picks to have enough money to attract Boras, I mean Appel.
they did. i may be wrong, but didn’t they not sign 2 other guys, and underslot draft guys just so they could have extra money for appel? what do you want them to do, draft all college seniors with 17.00 ErA’s and sign them to 10 dollar contracts?
in fact they signed a college senior to a 5 thousand dollar contract just to open up money for greedy appel/boras
I think if you don’t sign players you don’t get their slot money for your total pool.
Because people like Appel are going to realize quickly the holdout nonsense doesn’t work. Better talent will fall higher, and accept smaller deals because they have to. Also, consider two things about this draft:
1. Appel fell to the Pirates at 8 because it was known he was going to be a pain to sign due to the new CBA limits. Under the old rules he might not have even fallen to the Pirates anyway (Cubs probably could’ve afforded a sufficiently large deal. Baltimore too).
2. The Pirates knew what they were getting into. Any of the next three picks could’ve realistically fallen eighth if Appel had gone to a slot corresponding to his talent, and the Pirates could’ve done what each of the first seven teams did and skip over Appel.
If this had happened to the Astros with their number 1 pick they might
have a gripe (but even then, not really. It’s on Appel and Boras for
being foolish, which is just going to stop happening pretty soon). And
now the Pirates get a #9 pick next year (in addition to their actual
first round pick, which will probably be lower than 9). Hardly
crippling. Barely a setback.
Basically, Pirates fans are complaining because their team took a gamble in an attempt to get quality talent at a bargain price, and it didn’t come through. That’s life.
good riddance.
Yeah, because god forbid MLB teams get even more leverage over draft prospects. This was not a bright, shining moment for MLB.
I didn’t want Mark Appel on the pirates. A lot of teams passed on him for a reason (boras). I agree it is stupid that the MLB has implemented these draft rules since in the end it hurts small market teams and helps the larger market teams.
I do not see him being a top 5 draft pick in next years draft…this just seems like a bad move to me.
I’m not exactly sure where Appel and Boras are going with this either. It’s still going to be the same situation next year…and it’s a huge gamble to project him going higher.
It is not perfect but it hurts bigger markets too because they can’t sign first rounders in the second and third rounds for ridiculous signing bonuses.
But they can overpay in the FA market. Smaller market teams have trouble doing that.
Also, history shows that larger market teams do not spend as much in the draft compared to smaller ones. The pirates are a great example of this.
Dumb move on his part. Very little to gain but lots of risk. He better have a steller senior year or he could drop even further.
If he thinks he’s getting a better offer next year, when the draft class will presumably be stronger and he’ll be a year older, he’s insane.
By all accounts, next years draft will not be stronger.
Oh? I thought I had read otherwise but I’m not very up on prospect news.
which i dont understand because all i ever heard was how weak this draft was and there were only eight good players and no clear cut number one so i dont understand the recent switch to 2013 being a weaker draft.
It only became weaker once the Pirates got two 1st round picks now
I’ve heard reports that the 2013 Draft Class is actually weaker. I can’t verify that though.
Schadenfreude. This doesn’t even hurt the Pirates.
If he doesn’t get hurt (a big if for a pitcher) he’ll have other chances, but not for this dough. He has every right to withhold his services if he thinks the offer is inadequate.
Beating your chest is not always the smartest thing to do, though.
Oh well my pirates did the right thing, no way you give up draft picks for anyone with the new cba.
Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.
You make money getting to Free Agency, this delays his progress to get there. A couple hundred thousand in a signing bonus is going to be nothing to Appel in a few years.
does this guy even want to sign with a MLB team? a couple years ago he didnt sign with the tigers and now the pirates. i think MLB need to implement some kind of rule you can only enter the draft two or three times, if you dont sign on the 3rd try you got to wait 2 or 3 years before you can sign with anyone. this will change the way players handle things like this.
MLB shouldn’t have to protect draft picks against their own pride and arrogance.
If Appel wants to pass up $2.9MM because he thinks he’ll get more next year, or he doesn’t want to play for the Pirates, that’s his decision.
What I do believe is that this type of thing will discourage draft prospects from signing up with Scott Boras. He’s a great advisor for MLB players, but the list of draftees who have lost money due to Boras is only going to continue to grow with the new slotting rules in place.
Absolutely! Boras cost Appel a likely first overall pick and between $6-7 Million. Boras must have something up his sleeve…because I’m guessing the team that in best case scenario would take him fist overall in 2013 would likely have just about the same slot money that Houston had this season.
Please be the beginning of the end for Scott Boras. He just cost his client millions. No way Appel goes higher than 8th in next year’s draft. Better talent and more depth…
Even if he goes higher next year, he will likely reach the big leagues later than if he began his career now. The lost service time for an advanced college pitcher is probably worth more than the difference between being the 5th pick next year versus 8th this year.
Sucks, but absolutely the right call on Huntington’s part.
Thanks, Bud.
The new system has it’s flaws but then again so did the old one or anyone. Boras is just using this kid . He should have let Appel sign for the 6 million the Astro’s offered , Boras overplayed his hand and there was no way he would allow this kid to sign for below that . He was hoping to bluff the Pirates into overpaying or use the case as evidence in a legal proceeding to overturn the new system .
Since this new system was agreed to by the players under the new collective barginning agreement , I don’t see how that’s possible . Boras isn’t doing his client any favors by costing him the Pirates 2.9 million after costing him the Astro’s 6 million.
Kudo’s to the Pirates for trying but the lesson here is that every rotten Appel has a worm 😉
I hope they pick him with their 2nd 1st round pick next year
Unless the new CBA changed the rules, I don’t think they are allowed to draft him next year, unless he gives them permission…. anyone know if there was a change on that rule?
Another question I would like to ask is WHY does the NCAA allow these players to return to school after they work with an agent?? I know technically they’re “unpaid advisers” but give me a break. We all know what goes on. Football or basketball players can be punished for letting someone buy them a burger at McD’s but, inexplicably, the NCAA allows baseball players to toy around and come back to school like nothing happened. Double standards
MLB teams already have way more leverage than draft prospects. You want to take away either their legal representation or the ability to return to the amateur ranks? Football and basketball don’t allow you to reenter the draft…
“Football and basketball don’t allow you to reenter the draft…”
Thank you for helping me make my point
It doesn’t have anything to do with the NCAA letting or not letting something happen. Football and basketball don’t allow you to reenter the draft. Baseball does. Those are the rules, so the NCAA sets its policies based on the professional sports’ rules.
You hit the nail on the head. It is a joke that these college players can go back to school, but it is also a joke that high schoolers can even get into a college after working with an agent. I’m not exactly sure how the NFL does it, but don’t college football players have to declare for the draft? That would solve all of these. If you are in high school and you declare, guess what, you’re not going to college and if you are not a senior and declare, you are done playing college sports. Sure that would take away any leverage that the player has, but by the looks of things with this new CBA, they don’t have a whole lot of leverage anyway.
That’s bad for the kids and bad for baseball. Baseball’s draft lasts probably 40 rounds, and guys in their first year make peanuts. Unless you get drafted in the top 3-4 rounds, your bonus is not a life-changing amount of money. Baseball would end up with maybe 200 kids declaring for the draft in your system.
Pretty solid points…but the baseball draft is a little different than the other drafts. There are a lot of these kids that don’t even know they are going to be drafted….you certainly can’t make 40-50 rounds of players declare. Very few drafted players have agents initially. Really it’s the top round and into the second…maybe the 3rd that there are issues.
Every year there are a lot of undrafted free agents, the players who weren’t drafted could go back into the pool the following year, or sign, and the ones who were lucky enough to be drafted, could sign or else deal with life after baseball.
It’s just not as practical as it is with the NFL and NBA where draft picks typically have an immediate impact on the main roster. Baseball players take years to develop….there are exceptions like a Bryce Harper and Mike Trout…..but for the most part it’s a crap shoot especially after the first round. Essentially right now….every player is eligible for the MLB draft if they meet certain status. The other leagues have a limited draft…so it’s very much needed to know who is declaring…it’s just a different structure in the other leagues. The draft is higher profile with each.
Bucs did all they could, took the best person available when they picked and according to Huntington here..Even offered every last dime up to loss of a draft pick..
That throws the bag squarely onto Boras and Selig.. Now.. Publicize the flaws of the CBA and show what the issues are and try to get Appel’s draft rights negated away so he cannot make his way to Japan, Taiwan etc.. After his senior season like Boras is going to try to do again next year when he doesn’t (again) get the money he wants and attempts to become a FA..
lets plug a hole in this brutal CBA at least if they cannot just undo it, since it already has shown it is hurting small market teams like the Pirates that DID spend..
I’m not sure how badly this hurt the Pirates. Seven teams didn’t think Appel was worth a high 1st round pick and now the Pirates will get two 1st rounders next year in an apparently deeper draft. After what they spent last year on the draft, they could probably use a little break anyway. 🙂
Not so sure they didn’t think he was worth the pick, rather than didn’t want to try and deal with Boras and his figures. Have a feeling the Pirates had an idea of what Appel was after, but took him anyway and nothing wrong with that, the reason the other teams passed.
Just bringing this up.. Boston took Boras represented Deven Marrero at #24, who had a bad Jr season.. Slot of 1.7m and somehow Boras wheeled the team out of 2.05m..
Think some teams just plan on giving into Boras if they draft someone they are after, rather than toe the line and negotiate to drive the price down when the draftee has no leverage. That hole am pretty sure going to get plugged after this fiasco, it’s why a super talent like Appel was passed over by so many teams and some, like Houston drafted people they could sign others further on down by passing him over.
It exposed the flaws of the CBA right away and allows people like Boras to try and exploit them in other ways and am pretty sure Selig is not going to allow this to happen.
Pirates will get the pick back at least in a deeper drat, just a shame the kid Appel is a pawn in one of Boras’s child like games.
This amy be a small conselation prize, but if Boras plays with the futures of a few more kids, the way he has with Appels’, then maybe these kids will pick different “advisors” and we could rid the draft of Boras all together. Sure let him get huge contracts for free agnets who have already made a ton of money, but using these kids as pawns is a joke. I know Boras wasn’t his “advisor”, but I’m pretty sure Matt Harrington wishes he had signed with the Rockies all of those years back.
I’m not sure this isn’t what the Pirates had in mind. They really weren’t in a position to lose with Appel.
In my opinion, Appel not signing is far more damaging to him than to anyone else, including the Pirates.
Can’t blame the team. So Appel really believes he’ll go higher than eighth next year? Does he know the rate at which young pitching prospects get hurt? Bet Boras never mentioned that part. While it’s true if he goes #1 his bonus could be as high as $7.2 million (figure an increase to $7.5 next year). But if he gets hurt it could also be nothing. Or if he just has a bad season it could $1 million. This is really a “bird in the hand” situation if you ask me.
Something that probably won’t change is that pitching is losing value relative to position players as run scoring is down across the majors. The fact the first pitcher was drafted at #4 in this year’s draft might be a reflection of the fact that position players that can hit are more valuable than in the past. It’s possible no pitcher will go number 1 next year for this reason alone.
Even if he goes number one does the team drafting him even have to pay him slot? What leverage does he have as a college senior? Play overseas or an independent league, not many options it would appear.
I’m glad the Pirates took a chance but if it was clear at any time that he would not sign then I hope it didn’t affect the Thomas or Buehler signings.
Really good point. Not that kids haven’t been talked into the independent league route. How’s that working out for Aaron Crow, who wasted a year and signed for less than the Nats offered?
Exactly–the wasted year playing independent ball hurts the development curve, which delays your arrival to the bigs. That delays your path to arb and FA such that you probably got less money than if you had just signed the lower bonus offer a year earlier.
Well, next year Appel will have zero leverage and he will be forced to sign for two million, maximum, and be used to save up money for higher leverage picks later in the draft. Also, he is losing a potential year of free agency. If he is a top major league pitcher, he just lost 20-25 million dollars. Good job, kid.
Mark Appel, or two first-round picks next year. I think the Pirates made the right choice.
So next year the Pirates will have 2 first round draft picks right??
Then they will have the same limit of 2,9 million to sign the two first rounders and the rest of their draft class??
No each pick will have its own slot value attached to it.
So they spend heavy on the first round and draft college heavy…good position for the Pirates.
I predict Mark Appel will never see an inning of MLB.
Lets hope so. And Karsten Whitson while your at it.
I’m a Padre fan. 🙂
Good call by the Pirates, and a lovely message to the Scott Borases of the world.
Good luck… not.
The Pirates will be ok without him though, just have to stick with taking safer picks next year. Everyone else went along with the new system just fine, unfortunately there was just one bad Appel. I think he and Boras made a regrettable choice.
Won’t it be even more difficult next year to sign two first-rounders considering the $$$ that is being allocated by MLB, plus Pitt will finish better than last year. Doesn’t that translate to less $$$ per new MLB rules?
I believe the Pirates will get the 9th pick in the draft next year as compensation for not signing Appel. There will be a slot recommendation for that pick that is a bit higher than this year’s 9th pick. The other 1st round pick (and slot) will be determined by the Pirates record this year.
Good for the Pirates, and terrible decision-making by Appel. This is just like lost opportunity cost on an investment. You don’t lose the small amount of interest on the front-end of a thing, you lose the GIGANTIC interest on the back-end. He just put himself one year further from free agency. There’s no way a slightly larger signing bonus will make up for that money.
It will also translate to picking lower in the draft, resulting in lower slot bonuses.
Unbelievable. He’ll be working at CostCo with Matt Harrington soon enough.
i think this makes it less likely that the Bucs will use Taillon (or Cole i guess) in a trade.
This is great news, hes coming back to the farm. We needed him back in that rotation, Go cardinal!
Hopefully he’s drafted in the backend of the first round or later next year and has his bonus cut in half from what the Pirates offered him. People that do this sort of crap shouldn’t be rewarded for it. It already looks like he’s taking the Harrington path. You want the big money, go out and prove you are worth it. If getting around 3 million and the chance to spend the next 15-20 years playing baseball and earning 10’s of millions more isn’t good enough for you then I feel sorry for you.
As is though losing that one year of development could cost him millions later when teams won’t go and offer a 5 or 6 year deal later in his career.
Beware of the player who thinks his first contract is the most important one.
Outstanding point. That does say it all
I applaud the Pirates for drafting him and forcing the issue. I also applaud them for offering the max. Finally, they showed class and confidence in passing on him when it would cost them a pick next year.
I’m not sure where this kid’s head is. It’s not hard to figure where Bora$’ is. The Pirates have been doing things the right way and this is another good sign for them.
This is just a very convoluted guess but I think that Boras only had one team in mind this year for Appel.
Again this is probably unlikely, but I think that the whole reason Boras had Appel turn down the pre draft deal with the Astros was so the Twins could have drafted him. Remember the Twins had $12 Million in bonus money to play with and Boras knew that. So he probably hoped the Twins would take Appel second since they could have given him a bonus he would look for.
But then The Twins took Buxton, and the price of negotiating with Boras just caused his position to drop. Basically, another Boras scheme backfired. Well, he better win the Golden Spikes Award next year. Otherwise his stock is only going to go down from here.
The problem with driving a hard bargain is that sometimes your counter parties take you at your word and walk away. Boras loves the drama and loves to push the edge of the envelope. Sometimes he hits it very big, and sometimes he’s left with a goose egg. For him, the aggregate value of the contracts keep growing, so his commissions keep growing, and therefore he perceives no risk. The risk is taken entirely by the players he represents-many win big, but some are left with “pillow years”, hanger-on contracts, or back to school. Appel is the loser here, as are the Pirates. Boras remains rich and powerful. Sometimes there’s no justice.
Appel better hope he stays healthy. Going back to school doesn’t always mean more money. With the new system teams are not going to overspend on players.
I thought Stanford was supposed to be a college for smart people. Guess this kid wants to learn the hard way what happens when you turn down 3.8$M guaranteed.
Enjoy flippin’ those burgers.
Don’t forget…he turned down $6.5 mil, by not doing an upfront deal as the #1 pick. The chance of Appel getting #1 pick money next year is zero.
What if Appel is drafted next year and doesn’t sign. Can any team then sign him as a free agent and give him whatever amount of money they want to give him??
If he goes to the Independent League is he still eligible for the draft?
Did he not look at the reverse standings as of today and also realize Houston has lost 8 or 9 in a row and is ready to trade away all of their veterans? Luhnow is going to use the same strategy as this year and offer 4 million since Appel has no leverage this time around.
Good luck kid. Had a chance to make $3 million without ever throwing a professional pitch and he let an agent blow it for him. It’s going to be a long year for Appel, since a simple injury could end up costing him everything. Every walk down a flight of stairs, misstep on a curb on a rainy day, etc. will be a very careful one. Bucs did everything right here, handled it all with class. Boras may have ruined this kids life.
Jeez, I hope his degree is worth millions of dollars to him.
The Jays drafted Tyler Beede and he was the only first rounder not to sign, even though AA offered him over-slot money. Result, he turned down almost 3M and had a horrible season back in college. He isn’t even eligible for the draft now for a few more years and he will be lucky to get a few hundred thousand, if he is even drafted. Appel is in the same situation and that is two Boras clients that didn’t sign because they didn’t get first overall slot money. Who is Boras going to gouge next year out of millions and years in professional baseball?
Anyone with a prediction of what round Appel will be drafted in next year?
Appel just became my least favorite player. This type of unmitigated arrogance smells like Boras’s influence. This is a case of a player overvaluing his own worth and getting burned by doing so. Chances are that this decision will haunt him for years to come.
Tryin’ to see what Boras wants to do here :
Maybe he wants Appel to become FA after the 2013 draft so big market teams could be in the race and outbid themselves. Yeah, independant leagues aren’t the proper caliber to maximize Appel’s abilities but Boras sure knows about his client’s behavior and tools.
Boras is where he is right now because he is smart in his own way. He wants to exploit a flaw in the CBA. If he thinks Appel is worth 8 Million/yr, he will hire pitching coaches so he could develop well while playing in Independant League and then let the 30 teams outbid themselves to get that salary.
I don’t think it’s right for baseball because it hurts the Draft system. It gives the chance of big market teams to sign top talent every year even if they made the playoffs while small market teams will settle for signable players. But the player’s credibility lowers and it becomes a riskier investment.
I don’t think it’s ethical/moral but there’s a flaw and we all know Boras is out there looking to let MLB know.
If Stanford kids are so smart, the first thing he should do he fire Boras. Could have gotten 3 million without ever throwing a pitch. Boras just doesn’t get it……the good old days are gone…..he’s not getting crazy money like in years past. Just because you think your client is a first round pick doesn’t mean he deserves first round money. I’m guessing if this kid was picked first he still wouldn’t have signed because Boras is trying to find some “loophole” in the CBA. This kid has just become an “experiment” for Boras to try and exploit the system……except this time (and I hope and pray it happens) Boras has screwed the pooch.
Good old days are over Boras. This kid should fire Boras……he’s going to get slot money…..period. Now he’s going to be Boras’ “experiment” to try and find a way to exploit the system and the new CBA. I thought Stanford kids were smart?