After months of speculation, the Red Sox finally got their man in Blue Jays skipper John Farrell. Several names were floated about as potential bait for Toronto, but the Blue Jays wound up receiving shortstop Mike Aviles in the compensation deal. Here's a look at some of the reactions to the move..
- The loss of Aviles is not an insignificant one for the Red Sox, according to the Boston Globe's Pete Abraham. Aviles could have been a solid player off the bench next season, capable of backing up three infield positions and even playing some outfield, plus he was one of the most professional and accountable players on the team, setting an example for the young players, writes Abraham.
- In a separate article, Abraham says now the Red Sox have their manager, the real work starts for GM Ben Cherington, who must fill in the holes on the roster and hire a coaching staff.
- The Blue Jays were willing to let Farrell go in part because keeping him would have meant giving him a multi-year extension, and he hadn't earned that, writes Richard Griffin of the Toronto Star. The club wasn't eager to do that in part because of the team's lack of on-field discipline in the 2012 season.
- If Farrell is such a good manager, Scott Miller of CBSSports.com wonders why the Blue Jays would allow him to walk for relatively little. However, Miller spoke with one highly respected person close to the Blue Jays who insists that Toronto's struggles were not Farrell's fault and that he will develop into a very fine manager one day.
- There are suggestions that first base coach Torey Lovullo, third base coach Brian Butterfield, and extra coach Luis Rivera may now follow Farrell to the Red Sox, writes Shi Davidi of Sportsnet. GM Alex Anthopoulos confirmed all coaches are "free to talk" with other organizations because none of them are under contract beyond this season, tweets MLB.com's Gregor Chisholm.
- The Red Sox deserve credit for being decisive and moving quickly to grab the manager that they wanted all along, writes Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com. Boston's sacrifice of Aviles also seems especially mild given that the Blue Jays supposedly asked for Clay Buchholz in return for Farrell last winter.
- Toronto was furious with what they perceived to be tampering on the part of Boston, but they were wise to move past it, tweets Buster Olney of ESPN.com. Olney adds that Torey Lovullo is likely to be a prominent candidate for the Jays' managerial job as he is highly regarded in the organization.
- With a new manager in place, General Manager Ben Cherington's neck is now on the line, opines Gordon Edes of ESPNBoston.com.
- The Blue Jays would do well to turn around and hire Brad Ausmus, opines Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe (via Twitter). The Red Sox hiring team indicated to Cafardo that Ausmus was very impressive during the process.
- Rules mandate that both teams receive a player in such a deal, but whoever the Sox get from the Blue Jays is expected to be marginal, writes Sean McAdam of CSNNE.com.
- In getting Aviles as compensation, the Blue Jays seemingly followed the Lou Pinella-Randy Winn precedent from 2002, tweets Scott Lauber of the Boston Herald.
- Look for Lovullo to join Farrell in Boston as the team's new bench coach according to an industry source, tweets Gordon Edes of ESPNBoston.com.
- The reaction by current Red Sox players to Sunday's managerial hiring has been been completely different than how the team responded to Bobby Valentine's arrival in Boston last fall, tweets Pete Abraham of The Boston Globe.
Edward Creech and Daniel Seco contributed to this post.
I’d be horribly disappointed if the Jays didn’t give Sal Fasano a chance.
isnt sal fasano in his forties and retired?
He has been managing in the minors with the New Hampshire Fisher Cats as of late.
a successful NH team.
Yes, he’s been managing in the Jays minor league system for a few years now.
and doing really well. He is highly regarded by the players and likely the org.
It’s hard not to respect that mustache.
It commands respect.
we’re all talking bout the same thing right? …..As manager.
What a load! I really don’t care that they traded Farrell but come on mike Aviles …
The worst thing about this for the Jays is that Aviles becomes a possibility for starting 2b next season.
I think you have a better chance of seeing Russ Adams play starting 2nd base again before Mike Aviles.
I have to agree, in spite of the poor results, John Farrell has the potential to be a good baseball manager. But, I am curious to see how his “don’t worry, after me, you come first” act plays in Boston. After all, you can’t claim he has been completely loyal to Boston.
Are you calling his leaving the pitching coach position to take a managerial position “not being loyal”?
ok…I will play along and say he was “being loyal” when he left Boston.
I was saying it’s kind of ridiculous to claim that taking a promotion elsewhere means he wasn’t being loyal. No one expects a coach to stay with their team if they have a managerial opportunity elsewhere
But, I haven’t claimed he was disloyal to Boston. I only insinuated it to plant the seeds of doubt. But, you have foiled my scheme.
“you can’t claim he has been completely loyal to Boston,” said you. That’s an implicit claim that he’s been disloyal. This is how language works.
Perhaps you should consider it possible to have various degrees of loyalty. Tag, you are it.
John Farrell’s pursuing a managerial opportunity that he was offered elsewhere when his own team’s incumbent was, at the time, indefinitely positioned, has nothing to do with his loyalty to the Boston Red Sox. Case closed.
Man if Butterfield and Lovullo came to Boston as well I’d be super happy.
I agree. I think all of then can have a really positive impact for the team.
I’m ok with Lovullo leaving but I hope not Butter.
A little disappointed the Jays didn’t get a player they actually wanted out of this. They could easily have stayed with Farrell. We now have 3 SS. If Aviles is just trade bait for later this offseason, it seems like a sell-low situation. What did the Jays really get out of this?
Lets be realistic…the Jays were never going to get a superstar out of this trade, but you can’t blame them for at least pulling hairs with the Sox. Mike Aviles is going to be a bench player, which isn’t bad seeing as how it doesn’t need to be Mike McCoy anymore. And barring any free agent or trade, Hech or Escobar will be the likely scenario up the middle.
And let me ask you this…would you rather keep a manager that clearly did not want to be here and have him walk for nothing at the end of the year or trade him now and at least get some compensation for it?
Yep, if Jays kept Farrell, they might as well extend an open invitation to the entire Red Sox management team for any Blue Jays management meeting.
I suppose it now -is- clear he didn’t want to be here. But if he didn’t get traded to the sox this winter, the sox would have found another manager, likely more than a 1 year stopgap, and Farrell likely wouldn’t have walked to a division rival. That’s what sucks about this – their scouting info on the Jays will be way too good. For a backup SS.
Whether a new manager was signed for more than 1 year or not, he would have only lasted one year (unless the Sox made playoffs, etc.) knowing Farrell was going to be a free agent. And if the scouting means the Sox now have a scouting advantage on the Jays, wouldn’t it have been the other way when Farrell was with us? You can scout till you are blue in the face, but that doesn’t guarantee you anything when it comes time to actually performing in the game.
stop picking on Mike McCoy. obviously short on overall MLB skill level but dude was always ready, willing, waiting do whatever asked. and there is never enough (and sometimes a shortage) of that attitude
Not saying he didn’t have the attitude, but that can only get you so far for so long. Perhaps he can compete for the bullpen…his 0.00 career ERA could come in handy.
So they couldn’t offer him a qualifying offer of $13.3 million in hopes that he declines?
Jays did receive a player who can be an above average backup SS or a below average starting SS. In a way, this is comparable to the Mathis acquisition. So, they did get someone useful. Just not very useful.
true, but better than a AAAA player or 26 year old AA prospect. Never should really expect to get much for a manager, particularly when it is a buyer’s market for managers.
Jays weren’t exactly “shopping” Farrell around. So, the market had nothing to do with it.
They got something of value (even if Aviles doesn’t fill a need for the Jays, he can be traded to another team that needs a 2B/SS/3B for something that fills a need or helps the farm) for a manager.
Aviles totally fills a need? The Jays are about to lose Kelly Johnson. Hech, Escobar, and Aviles will all be used extensively next year and even if one of them is traded another middle infielder will be brought in to pick up more AB’s.
“Jays are about to lose Kelly Johnson”
no loss. more like Kelly Johnson lost his job.
I guess tampering is “friendly” exchanges via phone, or personal meetings among friends of at least 4 years between people that worked together in the eyes of some that should never happen again once that employment ends.. WHAT A LOAD…
People that work together that long are going to call sometimes, meet in person.. Get over it..
As for Bucholz as compensation? This makes 2 times “fans” and the FO of a team has *demanded* he be included for a lesser entity.. Texas thought he was worth Saltalamacchia and Texas ended up with the 5 stooges in exchange, none prospects. Toronto thought a manager (any ever) was worth Bucholz and they ended up with a malcontent who was a goner anyway.
Which team next is going to dream up some “thing” worth Bucholz that is over rated? yes, he is a #3, but they kinda’ need the guy.
Onto Aviles.. He can play 3b/SS/2b.. Probably better (should they keep him) of using him as a utility guy, but he became the malcontent when they sat him the last month.. There begins the quandary…
I like how all of the sudden Aviles isn’t worth anything. Boston overpaid by giving up anything of value. There are hundreds of guys available that could do as good or better than Farrell. How this gets spun as a positive is baffling.
Some of us were for moving Aviles before the 7/31 deadline if you remember.
Doesn’t mean that Aviles has no value.
I don’t believe that was insinuated by him. In fact, he was communicating the opposite. He had the belief Aviles could net a return. Plus, Boston has better SS options in the prospect funnel.
He has value and never said that. he was going to be moved anyway, as was Aceves and was easily expendable.
IMO? Toronto probably should have sought to get a fair prospect, but am thinking pressure might have been on them to get a “name” rather than just a “fair” level prospect and that was why both sides ended up agreeing on Aviles.
Aviles didn’t have tremendous trade value even around the 7/31 deadline, or he would have ended up in Oakland that needed a SS then, even a short time later before they ended up with Drew.
Aviles here was a compromise situation where the Jays probably could have gotten an intriguing guy along the lines of Kalish, who has been battling injuries the last 2 seasons, but probably has more potential upside.
That type (Kalish type) is probably the max Boston would have ended up in a swap with Aviles anyway s the point.
I wonder if AA just didn’t want Aceves? He is going to get moved also over the winter and complained quite loudly during the season, tho much more than Aviles who really only started the last month.
Toronto needed a good utility IF. This is akin to Jays acquiring Mathis last year. Both are good acquisitions for finishing the roster. Good and smart. But not awesome. Definitely not face saving.
I doubt AA would be interested in an ordinary prospect because they have many good prospects. In fact, at some point, they will have a problem fitting them onto their 40-man. Jim Callis of BA estimates Jays have second best farm system. Mostly due to high number of good prospects. Plus there is a backlog of average OF prospects. No room for Kalish.
BTW, I hope you appreciate the irony of Jays sending David Carpenter to join Chris Carpenter.
Aviles was voicing his dissent last September when he was getting the playing time of a utility guy. He was playing a couple times per week after THE trade and Iglesias/Ciraco getting the time and voicing his concerns over it pretty loudly.
Do agree with you that the utility role IS best for him from a team perspective.. 3b/SS/2b.. can play both corner OF spots also.. They had him working on that in winter ball last year and ST, plus a cpl games during this year and during 2011. he has the arm to play3b, so if someone can get thru to him a utility role is best? That would be better in the long run more than likely since it seems most SP have figured out he’s a chaser.
Sincerely hope “this” Carpenter isn’t immediately diagnosed with bone chips in his elbow and shut down until after the AS break. LOL Actually? As posted before, the “other” guy they got in the Epstein deal myself feel is better than 1 pitch Carpenter.. 21YO Aaron Kurcz, who was already at AA in the Cubs system as a hard throwing reliever.
This 27-8 YO Carpenter Toronto gave up looks destined to be another 40 man roster spot Boston will clear anyway. Like most figured.. Just saved the Jays the effort of doing so themselves.
I doubt D. Carpenter sticks with Bosox 25-man. Bullpen already very strong and most of the guys are out of options. Carpenter is a converted catcher who can throw 95 MPH. Like Beato, Carpenter still has options. Very good for depth on 40-man to fill-in for injuries or call-up after bullpen depleted in 18 inning games.
Before this season, it “appeared” Bosox lacked 40-man roster management because they felt so confident with their front-line players. That seems to have changed.
Edit – 21 year old in AA sounds awfully impressive. Yep, he is the core piece in the acquisition.
They have spots to remove, just go about it weirdly.. Gomez, Valencia, Stewert are going to help nobody and they allowed the 23YO Lin to walk, who was the best defensive OF in the system.
Nava is a 5th OF.. There are plenty of people they could DFA off the 40 man roster, including Rosario they just picked up, beato and they have more to add.. josh Fields they got in the Bedard fiasco of a deal and fixed last year and finally is throwing well..
It’s just will they move off the 40 man these retreads or not.
They are up and down roster fillers who are necessary. They protect the good prospects from being rushed onto the 40-man and having their options being used wastefully.
Lin is still in the system. He needs seven years of service (including minors) before he is eligible for minor league free agency. I doubt anyone claims him on Rule 5. If they do, can’t use his options for one year. It defeats the purpose of having him. IMO Lin will be back on Boston’s 40-man by 2014. What Bosox did avoids using, in 2013, one of the two seasons of Lin’s remaining options.
I think Che Hseun Lin (the one Boston signed in ’06) is a MiLFA now since he was removed from the 40 man roster and not claimed. I hope they sign him back, but am not sure if he has signed with another team as of yet.
It is tricky keeping up with both Lin’s.. The one most Sox fans know now is Tzei Wei Lin, the 18YO SS signed last summer for 2m.
Edit.. I keep getting the nationality of Lin(s) confused also.. They are both from Taiwan..
Was just looking over the list of Asian signings.. Most are gone now, or many. Chiang was a key piece in the bedard deal and now is in the Seattle organization.
If Lin has the option to elect for free agency, there hasn’t been any announcements of it. I bet you he stays with Bosox. If he is smart he will.
Yeah, I really hope so. They signed a bunch of Taiwanese that same year as Lin and hope he can stick around next year as a defensive replacement and PR, at least as insurance on Kalish being the same thing.
malcontent? is that what they call players that are accountable in Boston?
Aviles is a decent hitter and good veteran to have aboard…better than Vizquel !!!
I think their going to trade Yunel Escobar, and thought Mike Aviles will be a good enough replacement. If they do trade Yunel, hopefully it’s for some pitching.
I doubt they thought he was a good enough replacement. Maybe they view him as insurance in case Hech cannot hack it at the major league level.
Or maybe he is a bench player giving them depth if they move Hech.
Yea that’s probably the case but why wouldn’t they just move yunel along with Farrell and some other pieces to the sox for Lester or Bucholz.
Not sure if this is a joke or not. Assuming it is not, then I would say that it would be really difficult to build a deal around Lester and Bucholz considering that they are both good, controllable, and Boston needs pitching. Also, there was a lot of pressure to get the Farrell thing sorted out expediently. A trade for either Lester or Bucholz (assuming that the teams could line up) would have taken a lot of time to navigate
Probably just me, but Id love if Gregg Zaun became the next manager
Even as a joke that is frightening.
Yup, just you!
I’d be disappointed in AA if that were the case.
Every mound meeting would consist of “throw the Sinker, not the Stinker”
he’d never be able to wear a plain uniform everyday.
My blog glorifies Gregg Zaun, and even I don’t want that.
Zaun Cherry should not be allowed near a baseball diamond
I’d say this is a wash in my opinion. I don’t think Farrell was the answer, and Aviles is a bench guy.
so they are both mediocre bench guys
Glad this is over…Two years of him was enough-I guess he was ok, but not great
Don’t worry Sox fans, Farrell comes riding in on his white horse to save the day
Kudos to the Red Sox for resolving this quickly and professionally. Starting with last year’s ouster of Francona and Epstein and then following up with the whole Valentine mess, Boston was starting to resemble a circus run by drunken clowns.
While I enjoyed it as a Yankees fan, I remember how I felt when George did some of the wacky stuff he did and how it hurt the team. Red Sox fans are some the most passionate fans in the game and deserve at least to have a shot of competing on the field without ridiculous distractions.
That should be left for the Yankees, who are experts at it!
They need to stop taking advice from Rex and the Jets.
there was not much ‘professionally’ done with this. AA said that farrel asked over canuck thanksgiving to be released. The deal would have been done regardless and it could have been a lot smoother. There was no reason to be leaking information in the media and turning it into a circus. The drunken clowns have yet to leave the building…
Compared to how it could have gone, and to the Red Sox vs Cubs last year, this was handled ‘professionall’y. Both parties seemed to recognize the ending and decided to get it done quickly and in a much more hushed manner than last year. It didn’t play out in the papers for months and Selig didn’t have to be even mentioned as happened last year. Even with ‘leaked’ information floating around, it didn’t keep the eventual process from getting completed quickly.
still is a circus run by drunken clowns.
OK. Maybe, it is time to move onto something new now that this John Farrell compensation issue has been resolved.
Adam Lind for Clay Buchholz ? David Cooper for Ruby De La Rosa?
How can I shift into the alternate dimension where we hired Brad Ausmus and kept Mike Aviles, the man who is controllable, has the ability to be a solid hitter, and can play SS and RF (neither of which are positions we’re sure about for 2013)?
I’ve been wanting the Sox to drop this Farrell nonsense since last year. -_-
At least you can be content that they didn’t give up much. Sure aviles could have helped the team, but jays earlier wanted buch or bard.
I’m just waiting for that game against Toronto where Aviles goes 4-4 with two homers and 5 RBI
The Sox are trying to win games?
Could have fooled me.
Won’t be very many of them. He barely did that with the Sox.
If a Blue Jays player managed to do this against his old team, I’d have a heart attack lol. Typically it works like this – we throw out Alex Rios, he comes back and hits 2 HRs in his first game against us. We throw out Vernon Wells, he comes back and goes 4-4 with a HR. When our players play against their old team? Lose 0-10 1 hit, 7 pitchers used.
Aviles wasn’t that good. We got guys in the loop at SS anyway.
Iglesias isn’t the greatest. I still think he’s trade bait. But we have Boagarts in the loop and I believe we can live with Ciriaco until we get someone to share the role.
I am scared Farrell might bring Kevin Cash along with him.. The guy Boston always called when they wanted a AAAA discard catcher before he finally retired.. Him as a coach? The guy might decide to play again.. Worst case scenario..
Aviles is a pretty good player and can fill in almost anywhere, but Ciriaco can do the same with a better bat, more steals, etc. No loss. My only concern is that I still wanted Ausmus.
Technically you’re right about the better bat thing, but there’s got to be some kind of threshold where it doesn’t really matter who happens to be a better hitter than whom, and both Aviles and Ciriaco have crossed that very threshold.
may want to put new info at the top of the story, it took me a minute to figure out what, if any, new information there was
In my opinion this was a terrible move by the Jays. I thought Farrell did a great job with what he had over the past two years. Clearly this was the Red Sox’s guy. Aviles is a decent player but he’s nearly 32. He is a .700 ops guy that plays decent defense. The Jays should have demanded a younger player with a higher ceiling. I’m not saying they should have received Bogaerts, but someone like De Jesus, Carpenter, or Kalish seems like way more reasonable compensation. This is a loss for Jays.
no it isn’t. The Jays got Aviles and a manager, whereas the Red Sox only got a manager.
I disagree. Farrell’s departure had nothing to do with him not having the players. It was his total lack of leadership and accountability. The Jays getting a major leaguer in return means they club has already won the trade. Alvis is an upgrade over Omar Vizquel and if he really performs could be the starting 2b or SS.
Glad this thing is over with. Imagine if the Sox weren’t able to get Farrell…then the incoming manager comes in knowing he was only hired because they couldn’t get Farrell. Not exactly the ideal way to start off.
Lets hope he can fix Lester and Buchholz