This just had to happen. Yesterday’s deals not only changed the context for earlier summer trades, but reshaped rosters around the game. For purposes of this poll, let’s focus on the teams that were looking to upgrade their current MLB roster.
Here are the moves that contenders made yesterday, by team:
- Tigers get David Price; give up Drew Smyly, Austin Jackson, Willy Adames
- Mariners get Austin Jackson, Chris Denorfia; give up Nick Franklin, Abraham Almonte, Stephen Kohlscheen
- Marlins acquire Jarred Cosart, Enrique Hernandez, and Austin Wates; give up Colin Moran, Jake Marisnick, Francis Martes, and comp draft pick
- Braves get James Russell and Emilio Bonifacio; give up Victor Caratini
- Yankees get Martin Prado, Stephen Drew; give up Peter O’Brien, Kelly Johnson
- Nationals get Asdrubal Cabrera; give up Zach Walters
- Orioles get Andrew Miller; give up Eduardo Rodriguez
- Athletics get Jon Lester, Jonny Gomes, Sam Fuld; give up Yoenis Cespedes, comp draft pick, Tommy Milone
- Cardinals get John Lackey, Corey Littrell; give up Joe Kelly, Allen Craig
- Brewers get Gerardo Parra; give up Mitch Haniger and Anthony Banda
So, which of these teams made the wisest addition(s) yesterday, given team need and the price they paid?
Tough call between A’s and Tigers for me. Tigers got the player with the better numbers who’s also under control for 2015, but A’s got a postseason stud (something that Price has yet to be.
People have to remember the A”s got Samardzija as well…
For the purposes of this poll I’m looking at yesterday’s moves in isolation.
Yeah, that’s how I set it up. You just have to draw some parameters on these things, so I went with yesterday in isolation.
Either way, A’s are set up for a great run this year but I believe they gave up more valuable pieces than Detroit.
Had I remembered that I would have voted A’s. They now have 4 starters with an ERA under 3 and the 5th’s ERA is under 4. Unreal.
I’m a die hard Tigers fan and I leaned to the A’s. Lester is a great playoff addition, and Fuld will help them, and all they really gave up was Cespedes. The Tigers did have maybe the biggest get, but Smyly/Jackson is a steep price to pay…
The Tigers did not improve defensively, offensively and did not fix the woeful bullpin; probably, made it worse, because Smyly would have been moved to the pin for the playoffs. Price better remain stellar or be better than stellar for this to payoff in the short-term.
Twins
Best overall trade before the deadline was probably the Cubs trading Samardzija to the A’s for Addison Russell (#7 overall prospect) and Billy McKinney. They threw in Jason Hammel to make it happen.
The Cubs may have gotten a better return (based on potential) for Shark than Tampa got for Price.
That was a selling move. This article is about best trade deadline buy though I agree with your statement.
Hammel has been pitching like a throw-in. Detroit still has the best starting rotation just by virtue of experience. Samardzija, Kazmir doesn’t have it, and Gray has very little. Lester is the only one with any substantial playoff experience.
Run this poll again after the World Series.
Is it actually interesting to have the conversation at that point? Is it really just that whoever wins the World Series made the most prudent decisions at the deadline?
My point is don’t judge a movie by the preview. We have to let things play out to see just how good of a buy things were. Hammel is already pointless. The Orioles may beat the Tigers or the A’s and render all of their shopping spree spending moot.
If speculation is your goal, then, sure. What if ….
It’s much easier to make assessments with complete information, but generally less interesting. I think looking back from the end point is worthwhile too, but what you’re ultimately judging is the decisionmaking process at the time of the deal.
For me, for example, I like what Seattle did because I believe they were able to insert themselves into the Price deal and add a big league piece that they had a need for. That was a good moment to cash in on Franklin, in my opinion. I also think Denorfia fills a need for them at minimal cost.
Will it work out? Don’t know, but I thought that was perhaps the best-conceived and best value move of the day.
What’s interesting? The fact that a team makes the splashiest deal, or that they win with what deal they made?
I’d love to see a comparison of deadline day deals for the last 10 years compared to how the teams ended up and what the general reaction was from the general populace of how the trade was GOING to help their team win.
Compare and contrast the (usually misguided) enthusiasm for the flashy deal, with the results. I think you’d be surprised at what you find.
I agree wholeheartedly. That’s why I did a poll on this question: “which of these teams made the wisest addition(s) yesterday, given team need and the price they paid?”
I didn’t ask for the flashiest deal.
It’s not speculation at all. It’s analysis of the information that we have at present.
Seriously, I don’t get this at all. Why talk about anything? Let’s just see what happens and let the results dictate our assessment of all that came before.
This is exactly right. You have to assess deals based on the information available at the time the decision was made, just like the people making the decision. Otherwise you’re admitting you have no idea which deal is better or worse. In which case don’t bother answering the poll or commenting on it. After-the-fact analysis is also interesting as a way to assess how the decision making process could be improved. But that’s not what this poll is about.
First, hindsight is 20/20. Agree 100%. But second, one is not necessarily related to the other at all. The acquisition could do terribly and they could still win the World Series if other guys step up. I think it’s fun to have the discussion after the season because you can look at what both sides actually did in the final few weeks of the season. For instance, if Cespedes somehow hits .185 with 2 homers and Gomes hits .250 with 10 homers, perspective on the deal changes.
Unless Cespedes hits .280 with 45 HR’s next season and leads the Red Sox to a World Series in 2015…maybe we wait until after the 2015 WS to have this discussion….
…
A Better point Better. Also, if they resign Lester in the off-season, then it looks really lopsided. Basically got handed a huge power bat for Gomes if that happens.
If they resign Lester then getting Cespedes for 2015 was a steal. But more realistically I could see the Red Sox targeting Shields or Masterson.
I think they know they need an ace. Shields and Masterson are aces in mediocre rotations, but not true aces. I like Shields more then Masterson obviously. But they know they need to get Lester or Scherzer and Lester will come cheaper and is a lefty. I don’t think they can let Lester sign elsewhere. The Yankees will be interested as well and will drive the price up on both these aces.
Lester will go to the Yankees now and break Redsox fan’s hearts. I have a feeling the Yanks will make a deal that he cannot pass up.
He could have gone to the Yankees anyway. He’ll be a FA whether he stayed in Boston or went to OAK.
Beane already replaced Cespedes with Fuld. It was a genius move.
When valuing Cespedes you have to value him as more then just an offensive piece because he is also a pretty good defender with a cannon of an arm who can throw guys out with ease. So even if Cespedes slumps at the plate he can make up for it with his fielding for the most part.
Agree 100%. When Bradley Jr., Cespedes and Victorino are out there, no balls are going to drop and no runners are going to run. What a group of defenders!
I’m honestly curious to see if the long term plan is to use Cespedes in Right Field though, or if the long term plan is to use him in Center, I know they said he will start in Right but will he stick there once Victorino becomes healthy again?
They said Cespedes is going to start in left and for now, Craig in Right and Victorino may be heading to the DL. Cespedes absolutely hates playing center and Bradley has more range.
Cespedes has to go to RF and JBJ has to stay in CF…IMO
Nevermind! Cherington said right. Just heard interview. It’s early.
Putting Cespedes in Left would be a major waste, I mean Right Field in Fenway is the more difficult of the corner outfield positions isn’t it? I wouldn’t waste his talent in Left Field in Fenway.
Its ok. Cherington announced outfield. See WEEI. He’s playing RF. Report has changed.
Where does Holt play though?
I think he continues to be super utility man, but mostly at 3B I’d think now that Bogaerts will probably slide back to SS.
Is Holt out of a clear cut job when WMB returns, or do you think they will use him all over the diamond in order to give their older/injured guys a day of rest here and there?
Gotta figure Holt’s a super sub. He’ll see less playing time, but he hasn’t hit since the break anyway so that’s probably a good thing. He’s probably not a .300 hitter. I’d think he ends up being more of a .270ish hitter, which moves him out of leadoff anyway. And I think they try to move Victorino in the offseason. Unless Craig was a rebuild value to try and trade player, then they may move him. We aren’t going into next season with four starting outfielders.
I could potentially see us moving JBJ in a package for a starter or an impact bat like Stanton because we have the prospects and I feel that we could find somebody to take over for JBJ production wise, they may not be as good of a fielder as he is but his bat wouldn’t be hard to replace imo.
Also consider that his bat is on the way up and he’s one of the top defensive centerfielders in the game. And he’s playing for the league minimum. And you can’t keep Victorino knowing how injury prone he is. It’ll probably be a sell low, but Bradley’s managed to stay healthy all season, and Victorino hasn’t stayed healthy for an entire season in recent memory. And Stanton isn’t being traded. And that would still leave you with 4 starting outfielders.
I just don’t think anybody would take on an Injury prone guy like Victorino considering it’s not just one injury plagued year but many years full of injures. I guess if the Red Sox ate 75% of the remaining money on the deal, they could theoretically move him to Seattle, or Kansas but I’m not sure if they would get anything of real value back.
They wouldn’t get anything of value and they’d have to eat salary. But if you keep him, you’re basically saying I’m going to play a guy in Rightfield who essentially has no value, just because I wouldn’t get anything back in return, who is most likely going to have a significant injury this year. It’s a bad deal either way, and if you trade him, at least he becomes someone else’s problem.
True, Plus if they can’t move him in a trade they could just release him like the Braves did with Uggla. I just don’t want the Sox to be stubborn and continue to trot out players who don’t deserve the playing time like the Braves did just because their making money, if their not producing they shouldn’t start IMO.
True, but the issue with Victorino isn’t a lack of production, it’s an inability to stay healthy. It’s not the Dan Uggla situation. He had absolutely no trade value. Victorino may have little trade value, but if you eat some money, you should be able to get rid of him. As evidenced by AJ Pierzynski, the Red Sox are willing to admit when things aren’t working and cut ties to a guy and pay the price.
I was just stating that if he gets to be that bad I don’t want them to just hold onto him because they can’t get anything in a trade. Although a team in need of good outfield defense may take a flier on him for the cost of a low level prospect.
As I said yesterday (not sure if it was to you or someone else), but JBJ is not going to be the centerpiece for Boston in a (possible) trade for Stanton. So far all he has shown is defensive value (and some decent speed).
Expect Gechini, Betts, Boagerts, Owens, and others. (not all of them but certainly a combo of them)
I like his defensive value I’m just not sold on his bat that is the one thing that worries me. Can he consistently be average with the bat and then put up good defensive numbers? I’m not quite sure.
Exactly, and if you’re not sold on his bat, don’t expect the Marlins to be either. He’d probably be the 4th best piece the Sox would give up (this is assuming Stanton were to be available of course)
True True, But best case scenario with Bradley is that his bat develops and he turns into a kind of player like Ellsbury and if that happens I think he could be a cornerstone of this franchise, but that won’t happen for another few years if at all but they are kind of similar in terms of play style. Worse case scenario he doesn’t pan out.
I wouldn’t want Cecchini if I were the Marlins. Probably Middlebrooks (who the Marlins like for some reason) Swihart, Betts, Bogaerts, Owens. That said, I think Red Sox fans need to stop obsessing about the idea of Giancarlo Stanton and move onto something, anything else.
I know a Stanton deal is a long shot but at this point Red Sox fans need to entertain themselves with something and hyping up their prospects and saying their going to make a big move is the best way to do this, which is why you hear so much Hamels and Stanton trade talk.
It gets old. If I have to hear one more ludicrous trade proposition for Stanton, I’ll lose it. Besides, we should be more concerned with the two pitchers who are going to be at the top of the rotation next year than pipe dreams for players who aren’t actually on the market.
There’s a reason these rumors exist and it’s not solely because Red Sox fans are making them up. The Sox want him BAD and the Marlins can’t keep him. Miami won’t let him walk either, they’ll trade him and Boston can put together as good a package as anyone else. With Ortiz’s career coming to an end in the next few years they need to think about the next stud in that lineup.
Nope, it’s pretty much just the Red Sox fans. When you have a team saying over and over again they’re not going to trade him and they’re going to try and resign him in the offseason, clearly the rumors aren’t coming from them. He’s not currently on the block, so obsessing over him at Fenway is a waste of time. Again particularly since our concerns at this point should again be the two pitchers at the top of our rotation not pipe dreams about Giancarlo Stanton.
I’d rather see Holt in left than Craig. Plus I think Holt has earned his spot at the top of that line up. Who else hits lead off?
Ortiz……….:D, But seriously I think if Victorino gets healthy he could lead off or even Pedey if Holt gets reduced to a part time role and loses playing time.
If you try to use Cespedes in center, his defensive value disappears. All the fielding metrics hate his work in CF
So long term Cespedes in Right field and JBJ in Center while Craig mans left? Or is Craig the odd man out when Victorino returns to full health?
One rumor being tossed about is that the Sox move Cepedes and a bunch of prospects to the Marlins in a blockbuster for Stanton in the off-season. Apparently the Marlins really went after him hard when he defected from Cuba and he loved the idea of Miami with their large Cuban community, but the A’s made him an offer he couldn’t refuse. After losing our ace (who I don’t think we got enough for), I hope this is the case.
I would love that!
Oh I know I was just making the point that we may not see the fruits of these trade pay off for some teams this season. I’m super excited about the OF defense although I believe Victorino is hurt again so we should see Craig in LF soon.
Is Craig a decent defender? I’ve heard a few things about him and I think one of them was that he wasn’t the best defender, I could be wrong though. But even if that’s true if Manny can manage Left Field then anyone can manage Left in Fenway.
My thoughts exactly. I doubt he’s very good in the field since he’s also listed at 1B but if Manny could play out there….
Are we calling what Manny did “managing left field”? Seriously though, Craig isn’t the best outfielder, I think he’s better at first base, but you have to figure he’s better than Gomes.
Manny Knew the Green Monster better then anybody….inside and out…….But seriously does Craig make Napoli expandable? I could possibly see him being moved this month.
He may be the post Napoli plan, but only if he returns to form. He has had one of the worst seasons for a position player in baseball this year (significantly below replacement level), and considering he had three straight years of batting over .300, with double digit hrs and was an all star, that’s a pretty big fall. He’s a reclamation project right now. But he’s also coming off a foot injury. The Sox may see him as a right-handed Carp circa 2013, but he’s making a bit too much money to only play in half the games. One of the outfielders gets moved with Nava and probably Betts as your 4th and 5th OF for next year.
I could actually see them moving Nava this year because he’s not that young and I can see them wanting to clear room on the roster for this youth movement that we are going through. I have faith in Craig due to the fact that he was a good hitter in the past for more then one season. I honestly think he might have a lingering injury that is affecting his swing and his bat speed, just like Lackey had in his disastrous 2011, and if he was able to turn it around anyone can.
At the same time, it was a foot injury and you cannot guarantee he returns to form. If he shows indication that that is possible, then you could consider him as an everyday option. Nava is a cost controlled fourth outfielder who isn’t worth much. And who are you trading him to make room for? Betts is it for high ceiling outfielders in the minors.
Betts is a 2B and although Brock is too I’d rather see Brock in the OF. 1 more bad year for Pedroia and I say he goes at the deadline next year and Betts goes to 2B full time.
Betts plays both outfield and second base. And Brock isn’t going to play as much going forward. He’s a nice story for this year, but every year there’s one of those and they’re never the same the following year. There is absolutely no way they trade Pedroia. He and David Ortiz are the faces of this franchise. And any trade of established veterans next year assumes the Red Sox will not be in a position to fight for a playoff spot, which I don’t believe. They’ll put a quick turnaround on this rebuild, just like the last one.
Betts is their # 1 prospect and he’s listed at 2B. He just started playing OF this year (very limited) when the Red Sox realized their current OF was awful and Betts was tearing up AA. Fact is, Pedroia gets offensively worse every year.
I will admit that Pedroia has a drop off every year, but Betts is playing in the outfield for a reason. It’s not because the organization is short on outfield talent (although it is) it is because Pedroia is the second baseman and he will be until 2021. The organization wants him to retire in a Red Sox uniform. They signed him to a long term contract, fully knowing his offensive production had declined for the past three (almost 4 now) years in a row. You make four assumptions 1.that the Red Sox will be sellers at the deadline next year, 2. that Pedroia’s offense will continue to decline, 3. the Red Sox will move one of the faces of the franchise, 4. the red Sox will give Betts second base even though he has yet to prove himself a better hitter than Pedroia. I just don’t see it. Pedroia’s value is his glove. If he is a gold glove defender and an average hitter, he is well worth what he is being paid. Particularly working with a less experienced shortstop. In short. It will never happen.
I don’t think 5 million in 2015 is too much to pay for a guy playing a Carp type role and then after 2015 Ortiz, Nap, and Vic are all off the books (though Ortiz may not be confused about his options).
They may just ride out the year next year with four guys that could be starting outfielders. It’s only one season and there are bound to be injuries. As for Ortiz, he has two 10 million dollar vesting options for 2016-2017. If he has 425 at bats in the season prior (2015&2016) they take effect. I think there are also some incentives that may make them more.
Yes and sort of. Winning the WS basically validates a team’s moves. As both the A’s and Tigers have acknowledged, you only get so many shots, so whatever it takes to get to the promised land is a good deal in my book.
That said, it’s a VERY interesting conversation at the end of the season. Maybe the Tigers go all the way but Price is minimal help? Maybe the Tigers AND the A’s get bounced somehow, and then we talk about who made the biggest blunder? Plenty of interesting discussions to be had at the end of the year as to how the moves panned out and how they affect the future (eg. is Scherzer guaranteed to be gone next year? Will the Tigers have the OF talent to stay strong in 2015 after giving up Ajax and probably letting Hunter go?).
And that’s all just on the Tigers side…
Outfielders are a dime a dozen for the future. Hell, on the North Side of Chicago in just the past two seasons, they’ve employed Coghlan/Ruggiano/Bonifacio and Schierlholtz/Soriano/Dejesus/Lake/Bogusevic/Sweeney. You can always find OFers for a minimal acquisition cost.
Any time you end up with the best player in the deal, you’ve won the trade. And the Tigers didn’t even give up a dollar’s worth of change total to get their crisp new dollar bill.
I don’t disagree but, telling me the Cubs have been doing it doesn’t really reassure me.
I guess it’s one of those things where — if a team that is actively trying to not win can manage to find production from any guy (or combination of guys) they roll out there in the OF, then a contending team who has a vested interest in trying to actually be good can probably do it just as well.
It’d be interesting to know which teams went on to win a WS with deadline deals that basically tanked. It’s likely happened quite often. For a team to deal at this point, historically, the team has had to have been in the hunt with a solid roster already
What would be the point of that? The obvious winner would be the team that does win the WS (assuming a team that does win it is listed here). The only team not listed here which I think has a good chance to win it is the Dodgers.
Red Sox
They weren’t buyers. Not part of the poll, but they had an atrocious deadline, regardless. Spin it all you want, but their net loss was about 4 wins in the short-term and there was very limited long-term value gained. They’re best result is that Craig is 4th outfielder or your 2015 1st basemen who is light on power and Kelly becomes a set-up type of guy. The Cespedes thing still makes no sense whatsoever.
Yeah I really can’t see getting an outfielder with 25+ hr potential and moving him to a very small ballpark. Particularly when your outfield has combined for 15 hrs this season, and you were looking for a righthanded power bat. What were the Red Sox thinking?
Really what were they thinking? They gave up an ace at the deadline and got, an outfielder with a below average BA a below average OBP and a career negative dWAR. Add in the fact that the last two years he is 10 of 19 in SBs (which is really bad) and making 10M a year. So congratulations, you got an average outfielder making what he deserves.
Better than having three below average outfielders making between 15-22 million a season. Now that is brutal.
I’m not even a Sox fan but you have to admit they did very well.
Looking at the 2015 Red Sox they could have Napoli (16M) or Craig(5.5M) at first. The OF will probably have JBJ, Victorino(13M) and Cespedes(10.5M). Throw in David Ortiz (16M) at DH and that is an expensive group of 5 players (not including JBJ) to fit into 4 spots(1B, LF, RF, DH) in 2015. You would think something has to give. It looks like dollarwise Craig is the odd man out. I can’t see them benching Napoli and his 16 million dollars to play Craig at first. Maybe they can platoon somewhere? Or if JBJ fails they can move Cespedes/Victorino to center and fit Craig into the OF. At least they have some flexibility and two months to figure out some things going into 2015.
I believe that the A’s got the better deal between the two of them, they got something very valuable, postseason experience. Lester is 6-4 with a 2.11 ERA in 76.2 innings with 68 strikeouts in the Postseason
David Price on the other hand is 1-4 with a 5.06 ERA in 32.0 innings with 30 strikeouts. I know these numbers are past numbers but it clearly indicates Lester as being the better postseason arm albeit in a smaller sample size. So with all of this being taken into account and considering the seasons they are both having currently the A’s got the better deal, however in the long run this could end up being a better deal for the Tigers due to the one extra year of control that they received with Price.
Post-season numbers are so fickle though. Lester shut down the Tigers last year, good on him. Verlander got roughed up in the playoffs up through 2011, then was dominant in 2012-2013, but does anyone really feel comfortable counting on him to again be dominant after the year he’s having? Price has been the only horse for the Rays in his playoff appearances, going to be a lot less pressure on him when surrounded by the Tigers rotation.
One thing I do know is that if the Tigers go up against the A’s in the ALCS, that is going to be some must-watch baseball!
Personally I like both of the moves I just gave the edge to Lester because of how good he has been this season and to me experience in pressure situations are a good thing for a pitcher to have because they know how to experience the heat. Plus if he can take the heat of the Boston Media then playing in Oakland is going to be a walk in the park. But Price also has been dominant this year and it could go either way, but I do know one thing, it’s still too early to jump aboard the Tigers/A’s World Series train like everybody is doing because the games are played for a reason :). But I agree if the Tiger A’s ALCS does happen I expect it to go to a game 7 with some great dramatic baseball being played.
+1 … Lesters post-season numbers are better than Prices’. An even smaller sample size but Lester is #2 ALL TIME for World Series ERA 0.43 in 21 innings. If he pitches like he historically has in the post-season the A’s have the best trade deadline pickup.
I said the ms for three reasons. 1 I’m a homer that loves my team. 2 we fixed an obvious need by bringing in right handed bats and also doesn’t hurt they can both play D and run bases well. 3 we didn’t give up any major pieces from our farm. The guys we gave up either have had a shot at the bigs and didn’t do anything or a guy that maybe will never reach the majors.
Based on yesterday only (i.e. taking earlier trades such as Shark out of the equation), I have to give Tigers the nod here. Getting a real ace with another year of team control for a good, but not great CF and a mid-rotation arm is a great deal.
Gotta give it to the Tigers, especially for what they gave up to get him. The Rays got such an underwhelming return.
I voted A’s, just because of the two aces playoff histories. I prefer Lester over Price in the post-season. I do think the A’s gave up more, but I think they had to. The Rays sold low on Price for some reason.
Tigers
They get a upgrade at SP over Smiley, get rid of a Scot Boras client in Jackson, open up some room for a young outfielder to come/Andy Dirks when he is ready, and create a spot for their number 1 draft pick to come into when he is ready.
What about the Astros?
If you can vote for the Brewers addition of Gerardo Parra then you should be able to vote for the Astros getting 2 top 100 prospects and a top 40 pick.
Do you honestly believe the Astros had a better deadline than the team that got David Price or John Lester? These prospects they got are just that, prospects as in not established big league aces. I get that they will “win the world series in 2017” lolz but it is 2014 so the embarrassment of a franchise shouldn’t be included in any conversation ever about winning anything except the award for “Top 10 media market franchise that acts like they play their games in Montana”.
Any reason comments are awaiting approval? Seems silly.
Although it’s the smaller part of the three way trade with the Tigers and Rays, I’ve gotta say that the Mariners got a steal with Austin Jackson. It’s going to help their offense and outfield defense tremendously.
Its short sided to judge a trade before the players perform. Teams absorb players differently. Chemistry, coaching, scouting, the coachability of a player, injuries. stadiums, shift in pitchers faced all matter.
Okay, rule change for baseball commentary:
– no more free agent analysis until after the contract is performed
– no more prospect analysis until after the player has become a free agent
– no more trade analysis until every contract swapped has completely been played out
Will be interested to get your thoughts on Ryan Howard and A-Rod in three years. For today, the replacement poll question will involve Johan Santana.
(Actually, ‘short sided’ may be a good way to describe it. Imperfect information with which to work. That’s what makes it interesting.)
Also by the Ms not giving anything major to get the guys we got yesterday we are now in prime position this off season to get a major impact bat like a Stanton or tulo if the available..
I think Baltimore and NY did Okay moves, but not enough to change their team (even though Baltimore is in first place). If I’m Baltimore I would have given up Gausman or Bundy for Lester (assuming the Sox were interested in getting 1 of them). If O’s make the playoffs, it will take luck (and we all know that happens in this game) to beat a rotation of Price/Scherzer/JV or Lester-Shark-Gray.
I gotta call Toronto a big loser of this deadline for not doing anything (or not doing anything off the top of my head). Yankees improved a little bit (Drew has actually hit well in July) and Prado is a Huge upgrade over Ichiro, but Yankees didn’t get something else they need and that’s a SP, though thankfully FOR NOW, Pineda’s rehab is going well
I posted this in the Recap thread from last night, but my winners/losers of the trade deadline are:
Winners:
1 – Tigers
2 – A’s
3- Tie with Cards/Red Sox
Losers
1 – We all know who
2- San Fran
3- Toronto
(though we can name a bunch of other teams too, but as far as teams that could/should be Buyers, I’d go with Toronto and San Fran).
Gray over Kazmir? Shouldn’t they put Kazmir in the playoff rotation if he continues to pitch well? Because while Gray is a good pitcher, I think that he is still young and that the pressure of the postseason might get to him, Kazmir on the other hand has experience which I think is a valuable tool in the playoffs. There were a few pitchers the Yankees could of gotten yesterday for minimal pieces that could improve their chances to take the division such as Colon (Old but effective), Milone (Price was low enough worth a risk), Latos was said to be available (Although I don’t know if they had the prospects to get it done). I also think the Prado move was one of the most underrated moves of the Trade Deadline, I feel he can help them a ton due to the fact that the Yankees are older and he can play so many positions, it could help them to get their veterans a day of rest here and there when they need it to keep them fresh for the latter part of the season. I agree that the Blue Jays should of at least done something even if it was only acquiring a small bench bat, they should of taken advantage of the fact that the AL East is wide open this year.
smh, can’t believe I left out Kazmir. Sorry my head isn’t still straight this morning. And yes he has playoff experience but it hasn’t been very successful.
Mets asking price from what I’ve read was high for Colon. Guess Yankees could have gone after him because of his age!!!! (old joke but still good).
I don’t think Anybody was expecting Millone for such a low price. That was a terrible trade for Oakland. Yes Fuld may help this team This year more than Millone, but the value they got back is awful. They could have gotten an MLB player much better than Fuld.
Not sure if an intradivision trade would have happened, but I bet they could have gotten Alex Rios for Millone (maybe an additional minor league prospect from the A’s). And I don’t think we can disagree that Rios >>>>>> Fuld.
That’s just an example though, my point is Oakland’s return wasn’t good.
Were the twins the only team that checked in on Milone? Or did the A’s just have less leverage in negoiations because Milone asked for a trade? When I first heard he was traded to the twins I was almost 100% sure it was going to be for Willingham but man, I was underwhelmed when they announced it was Fuld seeing as the A’s let him go for nothing earlier this year.
Well that’s a good point you make, though it appeared most other teams were looking at Hammel rather than Millone. Man I wish the Yankees could have traded for him and put him in the rotation instead of Capuano.
The Yankees could of made a similar offer to the A’s and send them Ichiro, I know he’s on the decline and not much of anything nowadays but I think if the Yankees threw in a low level prospect and sent cash to the A’s it could of gotten done because of the fact that Milone had no real spot on the team and that adding a Veteran like Ichiro to the mix would be a good addition to the clubhouse and he could work with the younger guys potentially.
Ichiro wouldn’t have been a bad platoon player, but he’s done well for the Yankees as a platoon player when Soriano was here and when Beltran was playing defense (and he will be playing defense again soon if all is well).
I actually still like him on the bench for the Yankees….that is assuming he stays there and I have to assume he will.
But yes I think if they settled for Fuld, they would have even maybe taken Ichiro (maybe a low level prospect too because of Ichiro’s salary)
But realistically if the Yankees are getting starting pitching this month they will go after Colon because he’s the best fit and not just because of his age :P.
Maybe the fact that he’s under contract for next year (and likely to decline more) is what made them Not go after him. Probably why they wanted De La Rosa too who is a FA after this season. As is McCarthy who they traded for.
If Colon was on a 1 year deal, I could see the Yankees and other teams pushing harder for him. There’s always next year.
We shall see what happens with the waivers now. Maybe Yankees wanted to try to get Lee but not anymore. He probably threw his last pitch of the year last night.
RAJ really messed up last year at the deadline by not moving Lee while he had the chance, teams would of paid a premium price for him even though he was in his mid thirties, RAJ took the risk that he would still produce a year later after being a year older and he lost all his value. When you have veterans you have to deal them while they are producing and not wait until it’s too late to try to deal them because injuries happen and you have to be aware of that. I honestly see the Yankees going after a bat on waivers this year though. But here’s a question for you, if the Yankees miss the playoffs for a second straight year is Cashman out of a job?
Cashman’s contract is up at the end of the year. They may not even re-sign him.
If the playoffs start today, it’s Orioles @ Tigers for one of the ALDS matchups. Going into that with no Lester might be enough to actually make me pity Baltimore.
From Ben Cherington’s press conference yesterday about his trade deadline moves, he said he got packages from other teams that contained very good prospects in exchange for Lester and Lackey. Cherington, however, said he wanted to go with guys who could contribute now and help them win for 2015, as he said they’ve already got a strong farm system. So maybe the Orioles did offer at least one or two of their top prospects, who knows.
Just heard Cashman asked about Lester and Cherington said he’s available to 28 other teams. Something tells me that has to do with the fanbase or management dealing him to the rival, because why we would have dealt him to Toronto, Baltimore or Tampa (if any of the 3, and we know Baltimore did, wanted him)., but not NY, who arguably has the worst farm amongst the division teams.
The clear answer to the question is the Mariners. They needed a right handed hitter and an outfielder. They got both in AJack and gave up few guys that would never play in Seattle anyway.
The Cardinals significantly upgraded their rotation this year and next for a broken 30 year old 1B and a #6 starter/middle innings guy. All while also clearing way for Taveras to play every day. I really think it was an underrated move.
Isn’t it a bit early to call him broken after only half a bad season so far which was preceded by three pretty above average seasons?
He could be fixed, but he is definitely broken right now. Sure his BABIP is a career low, but so is his LD% by far. He doesn’t drive the ball, it’s not just bad luck. I hope he turns it around, he’s always been one of my favorites. Even peak Craig is about a 3 win player, not a superstar.
I think all he needs to do is improve his bat speed which is down, and get his confidence back and a change of scenery could do wonders for him. Who knows, maybe Papi could give him a few pointers and try to help him turn it around.
I hope you’re right. There was just no room for him to play in St. Louis. It’s been very sad to watch him this year.
St Louis has enviable depth all over the diamond, I don’t think there is one position of real need for them because whatever happens they always seem to be able to fill their holes and do so in an effective but inexpensive manner.
No one position of need but they could sure use some offense.
Could you see them claiming a guy like Byrd on waivers? (I know he’s an outfielder which there’s already a logjam at but he would give them some offense that they need. Or maybe Beckham?
I’m just not sure where the Cardinals could really upgrade the offense. An outfielder likely would move Taveras back to the bench, which I can’t see Mozeliak doing. I guess maybe a 2B, but I don’t think Beckham is an upgrade over Wong. It’s just kind of puzzling how bad the offense has been. I would guess the team is just going to have to turn it around. I don’t see any more trades.
I’m a White Sox fan and I’d rather have Kolten Wong than Beckham. Beckham is a bust at this point, top pick who never panned out. His defense has gotten okay, but he can’t hit. Regardless, I’d trust what the Cardinals are doing. Only the Yankees have more flags than they do. Although if the Cardinals REALLY want Beckham, we wouldn’t say no haha.
I think they will start to make strides in August and September and really start hitting by the time October rolls around.
It’s very hard, near impossible, to just “improve his bat speed.” That’s why players retire. Because they cannot keep up with the pitching.
It’s the offensive equivalent of saying player x would be great defensively if he could just improve his range.
I still think that he could possibly have a lingering issue that has effected his bat speed, I guess I’ll get the answer to that or if he is just losing his touch in the offseason
Well, in that case, it’s the injury which heals, or the mechanics that get fixed. But if the bat speed slows on its own, it rarely (never) comes back. At least not “naturally.”
David Price, Martin Prado, Tommy Millone and Parra were the 4 top moves considering cost. All 4 trades are clear winner out of the gate for the team that acquired them.
I though the Red Sox did really well with their two moves yesterday
Left them off of this one b/c I was just looking at teams looking to upgrade for a postseason run.
That is why. I was wondering why you left the Red Sox off the list.
As far as value for what they gave up vs what they needed, I really like what the Mariners and Cards did. Jack Z filled a major need in CF and was able to get good value out of a struggling Nick Franklin and I think Lackey is going to get a nice boost by moving to the NL. The Cards didn’t really give up a ton considering Craig’s health issues and the fact that they needed to clear a path for OTavares.
It’s not that I don’t like what the A’s or Tigers did, they both improved their teams. I just think Seattle and St. Louis gave up less important parts of their club in order to improve themselves.
Agree, thought they made some really shrewd deals. Especially impressive how they were able to facilitate the Price trade and get an established MLB CF out of it for a guy that was less valuable to them than others.
I thought Tampa could have gotten more for Price in the offseason. More bidders perhaps.
Gotta be the Tigers.
To upgrade from Drew Smyly to David Price, the cost is AJax and an 18 year old. The Rays should have been able to extract a far better package for Price; you’d be hard-pressed to come up with an AL pitcher who’s been as consistently good for the last 5 years not named King Felix.
If this question was reversed, you’d have to say the Cubs maxed out their compensation over this mid-season trading period. The A’s did what they had to do to get what they wanted, and never get involved in a land war in Asia when Billy Beane is on the line, but landing Addison Russell was a straight coup.
I’ve often wondered why selling teams don’t more often package assets to get their desired players in return. It seems like the salesman thing to do. “What else can I interest you in today?”
“…given team need and the price they paid?” I don’t get it, only Tampa Bay paid Price for anything :^D
Ha, I knew I’d get some comment on that line. Was mostly worried it would be a mental trigger that would cause people to vote for the Tigers, as if they were going to need any help winning this poll.
St. Louis getting Lackey at league minimum is solid, though the Price deal is easy to go with. I’m shocked that more teams couldn’t have paired with Seattle to make that deal happen
After seeing the prices teams paid for Price, Lackey and Lester at the deadline its clear the A’s overpaid to acquire Shark and Hammel before the deadline.
No doubt.
Sadly I have to agree. Especially with the way that Hammel has been pitching recently.
True. In retrospect, they’re probably thinking they should have waited.
But at the time, you don’t know what the market for SP will be a month from when they made the trade. It was a risk, no doubt, but one they were comfortable making.
You know Billy Beane’s philosophy: either you’re going for the WS, or you’re rebuilding. Nothing in between.
Tigers got the most bang for the buck, but to me the Twins came in second, getting Milone for Fuld.
It shocked me that Pittsburgh didn’t make a big move.
It did?
If I was a Tigers fan, I’d be ticked. They would have been better off just keeping Fister, Jackson and Smyly. I’d rather have that trio than David Price personally. It’ll be interesting to see how that trade looks in a few months.
Agreed. Price is a great addition to the starting rotation, but we gave up a LOT, probably too much. However, this was a move to help next year also. We won’t be resigning Max Scherzer. And, Dave Dombrowski, through this move, told Max that yesterday.
I’ld say the Rays and Red Sox did best on the day.
Red Sox yes. Rays??????????
I think they got Smyly, Franklin, and Adames for Price. Rotation piece, major league ready prospect, and a low minors prospect. Classic Tampa trade and I think they did better than the Shields trade.
Red Sox got some nice pieces, major leagues pieces. Disappointed rays did not get anyone to contribute this season, Smyly downgrade from Price obviously, Franklin to minors.
how is The Red Sox get Yoenis Cespedes and give up 2 months of John Lester and Jonny Gomes not on there?
I think it’s because they sold Lester. They weren’t buying Cespedes. They got a great return for Lester I think but a team who is sending their ace because they are in last place, isn’t a buy…
ahh, should have read more carefully
I definitely said the same thing when first reading it. I was like “I think the Red Sox made out pretty good and should be up there”. In a sense they kind of bought for next year with the returns they got, so they technically could be up there.
Price does have a huge up-side but they also gave up a center fielder who can really run balls down (not a small thing, in Comerica Park or his new home, Safeco Field) and a solid mid-rotation option in Smyly. I mean, yeah, it’s a no-brainer to make that deal but it’s not like they gave up NOTHING.
The a’s gave up their clean up hitter though, I’d put them behind the mariners who didn’t give up any pieces they need this year or next, bandwagon jumpers!
I didn’t see Houston Astros as a choice, but they made the best deadline deal.
Orioles if were following the needs/returns,etc.. Tigers was just rich getting richer, I hope they all blow out their arms. As and Tigers are frauds. Go O’s or Mariners!
What, no Red Sox in the poll?