Tigers right-hander Shane Greene tells Chad Jennings of the LoHud Yankees blog that it “felt like I got dumped” when the Yankees traded him in the three-team Didi Gregorius trade this season. Greene says he’s pitching with a chip on his shoulder this offseason as he looks to continue proving himself. Manager Joe Girardi tells Jennings that it was tough for the Yankees to part with a young starter like Greene, but they felt it was necessary to get a potential everyday shortstop in Gregorius. Greene adds that he entered the offseason knowing that his trade value was perhaps at its peak: “If they were going to make a move, I was probably going to be one of the pieces. … I know it’s a business. I’m not a complete idiot, so I knew if something was going to happen, my name would be at least talked about with the situation over there. I’m excited to be here, and that’s all that really matters.”
More from the AL Central to kick off Wednesday morning…
- Royals manager Ned Yost told Andy McCullough of the Kansas City Star that he’s not sure he’s ever seen a player undergo such a drastic turnaround in an offseason as the one Mike Moustakas seems to have gone through. The former No. 2 overall pick is hitting the ball the opposite way frequently, and he’s hitting left-handed pitching in this year’s small sample as well. Yost joked that after all the faith that the Royals organization has shown Moustakas, “It’s almost like you want to stand up on this table and scream, ’I told you so!'” Moustakas has worked with hitting coach Dale Sveum to re-work his swing, and the results are apparent to him and his teammates. Eric Hosmer noted that he’s never seen Moustakas hit the ball to left field as often as he does now.
- Had the Royals successfully reeled in Torii Hunter as a free agent this offseason, they likely wouldn’t have signed Kendrys Morales, GM Dayton Moore told the Star’s Vahe Gregorian. Moore and his staff considered Morales the next-best free agent bat after Hunter signed, and though he had a dismal 2014 season, the Royals attributed it to not beginning his season until June 8 as he took a long route to circumventing draft pick compensation after turning down a qualifying offer. The Royals judged him based largely on his 2012-3 seasons, which looks to have paid off thus far. Morales is hitting .351/.413/.544 through 63 plate appearances.
- The Twins have once again constructed a pitching staff — specifically a bullpen — that cannot miss bats, and that deficiency is already costing them, writes Mike Berardino of the St. Paul Pioneer Press. Twins relievers faced 26 Royals batters over the past two games and combined to strike out just one hitter — an unthinkably low rate in today’s game of specialized bullpens. Twins relievers are averaging just 5.18 K/9, which is dead last in baseball and ranks nearly a full strikeout worse than the 29th-ranked D-Backs (6.08).
Terrible mistake trading Shane Greene.
Masahiro Tanaka, Michael Pineda, Shane Greene, Nathan Eovaldi, Adam Warren, and Ivan Nova (off DL in May) That would have been quite an assembly of young pitching.
And who could they have traded to get a SS then? gotta trade talent to get talent.
Could have resigned Stephen Drew (oh wait, they did!!) and put him at SS and then put Refsnyder or Pirela at 2B
And I know Refsnyder has been bad defensively at 2B in the minors, but now we are in an era where offense is declining. If Ref would be able to hit in the majors close to or as good as he did in the minors, I think it is certainly worth the risk.
Refsnyder has been absolutely abysmal at 2nd, not just bad. I would honestly be considering moving him back to the OF if things don’t get better soon because I don’t want to see his stock continually plummet just in hopes of creating a player in a needed area.
” Refsnyder has been absolutely abysmal at 2nd, not just bad.”
So has DiDi at the plate. As I said in an era where offense is declining, it’s worth the risk. Heck, we had Knoblauch and Soriano there for several years!
I would rather have a plus defense-first mediocre hitter than a good hitter who simply can’t field his position, particularly at an important position in the middle infield(I can’t believe you just played the Knoblauch card, big difference here). We got Didi for his glove, not his bat, and his defensive track record suggests his defense is going to come around despite early issues. I’m all for finding a place for Ref’s impressive bat, but not if it means he’s messing up routine plays nightly.
The Knoblauch card? Do you know how awful he was at 2B with the Yankees, or did you only watch him as a Twin?
“I would rather have a plus defense-first mediocre hitter than a good hitter who simply can’t field his position, particularly at an important position in the middle infield”
So you’d take Brendan Ryan at SS for a full season over Hanley Ramirez? Got it
Knoublach’s issues stemmed from his inability to throw and ultimately landed him as a DH, which is a big deal, but a different scenario than Ref who has issues in all aspects of 2nd. Also, that has to be the most extreme version of what I said you could have possibly mustered, you’re putting words in my mouth to make your point look stronger. First off, Han Ram looked more serviceable in the infield than Ref has so far for a good stretch of time, and comparing Ref’s offense to Han Ram’s is a little premature. Secondly, Ryan isn’t a mediocre hitter, he’s a bad hitter, and there is a big difference, especially when the mediocre hitter is only 25 and the bad hitter is 33.
That’s not putting words in your mouth. That’s citing examples of what Did come out of your mouth. HanRam has been one of if not the worst defensive SS in baseball since he played there (yes even worse than Jeter). One big reason why he’s been moved to other positions. I guess it’s fair however to call Ryan bad as opposed to mediocre. However if you look around the league, SS has been a very poor hitting position anyway. Again, in an era where offense is dying, give me about a 120 wRC+ and poor defensive over a 70 wRC+ and good defense. Regardless of the position.
No, saying I’d take Ryan over Ramirez is in fact putting words in my mouth, I would never say that. He moved to another position because that’s the only way Boston would have had room for him, , and even being bad at SS, he looked better than what I’ve saw from Ref at 2nd(he already had 5 errors at last glance!). If SS as a whole is down offensively, Didi follows suit just fine as long as the glove picks up, I’d be cool with him batting .240 if he can play like he’s capable on the field. We’re going to have to agree to disagree, because the middle infield is one place you want plus defenders the most, and throwing Ref, who is unproven at the major league level, in at 2nd just so he has a spot to play when he could be a better outfielder would be a mistake.
Yes, I forgot how so many teams in need of SS, were lining up to acquire Drew’s services to be their starter. It would have been a short term move to fill the position, but I guess that may have lowered the pressure on the long term player, being Drew’s replacement instead of Jeter’s. I think New York wanted some upside, though. Being a Detroit fan, there was some head scratching in Detroit as to why they would give up Robbie Ray to get an older prospect in Greene (he’s older than Porcello) who never had the minor league numbers to support what he did in half a season in the majors. Greene may have started the season well, but I really don’t think he was that highly valued going into the offseason. Arizona didn’t think that highly of him, or Detroit would have never stepped into the trade.
Let’s wait at least one more month before we start saying the Greene trade was a terrible move. While I do like Greene and think he can be a solid #4 starter in the long run, Gregorious isn’t likely to bat .200/.233/.200 all year and the deal could still be a win for the Yankees.
Didi was always projected as a bottom of the order type guy, it is his shaky defense that has people worried I think, Replacing a legend isn’t easy especially for a young guy, I think this is why the Yankees were praying Hardy became available, it looks like they even dodged a bullet on that front too.
Although it was 2 separate trades, seeing if the Yankees did the right thing will be to compare Eovaldi and Greene although it’s not as fair since Greene will be pitching in Comerica to weaker offenses then Evo. But overall I think Evo has better stuff, I just wish we didn’t give up Prado for it, I would have rather they sent Gardner instead of him, but if Gardner still puts up HR like last year then I’m content.
The fact that you named 5 starters that are all young and aren’t shane greene, probably shows it wasn’t a terrible mistake. Tanaka, and Pineda are both better than Greene. Greene may or may not be better than the other three, but all have looked like mid-rotation starters in their career (besides for Warren.
The Yankees also will have Severino, and mitchell, and the money to acquire a top free agent arm. It’s pretty easy to see why they would trade a pitcher away.
I think they take care of the short stop position next year, probably getting desmond
The SS market was unbelievably weak and they were looking at the prospect of playing Drew as SS after the year he had last year, so they really had no choice but to take a gamble. To boot, Greene pitched only 78 innings last year, looking like a mid to back of the rotation guy, and I’d make that gamble for a web-gem caliber SS too considering how the rotation stands without him. I believe strongly he’s due for a reality check as well in the next few starts, he’s not just as good as his season has been thus far, and it’s crazy how fast people are hopping on his bandwagon.
Are you saying his 1074 ERA+ is unsustainable?
Lol, I would say that’s a fair observation,yes.
Remember when the Pineda/Montero trade looked like a disaster after the first month? When Pineda was on the DL and Montero was hitting .290 with 4 home runs? Sometimes it takes YEARS to properly evaluate a trade.
Since then Montero couldn’t stay in shape and has bounced back from triple A to the big league club. He had a lot of potential with the yankees.
Kendry Morales can win the MVP, the Royals still overpaid for him. He had no value and they paid him almost as much as Butler got.
He’s had 1 bad year at the plate since 09. It’s only a 2 year deal.
When he got hurt in 2010 after the walk off grand slam, He never got back in shape, but looking at morales now he looks like he is back to that mvp type form again, Wish the angels could of brought him back since hamilton was still going to miss some time.
He hasn’t had that many good years either. Seattle and Minnesota needed DH’s, (they already tried him) as well as Baltimore, who has not spent on the position. Why pay him $8MM when nobody is offering $4MM?
The Twins have Kennys Vargas, which is why they shipped off Kendrys last year. The Royals paid what it took to sign him, if Morales performs like he has before 2014 than I doubt they will be all that concerned that they could have gotten him a little cheaper.
When they show weakness in another area, it will show where that excess money could have been applied. Will they “survive” the deal? Of course! But on a team with limited financial resources, the clock is ticking to when their own players start becoming free agents. They can’t afford to waste money in the NOW. $4MM/year could cost them a player like Gordon. Can’t afford $20MM/year, only $16 MM, might end up why he’s playing in NY next year.
Paying Gordon $20 mil per year for 5 yrs would be a much bigger mistake than paying Morales.
Keep forgetting how there are lots of Alex Rios types to replace him.
You’re just not very smart are you?He could win MVP and would be overpaid? Try again, chief. He is TWICE the hitter that Billy Butler is. Bigger, Stronger and doesn’t clog the basepaths. Billy Butler is a slow, singles hitter with no alternate skillset. The A’s overpaid for Billy. Morales is getting EXACTLY what he is worth.
Doesn’t clog the basepaths? Is that you, Dusty?
[It’s also not correct, as Morales is one of the worst baserunners in professional baseball.]
I’ll agree on Morales, but Butler is a doubles machine when hitting… Big difference
You can’t read, can you? I said Kansas City overpaid. At the time they signed him, there was absolutely no other rumored landing spots for him (maybe Baltimore, but they never did spend on DH). Teams pay for what players have done lately. At the end of this year, Morales may have the numbers to support his contract, but at the time he signed, He ABSOLUTELY DID NOT. Kansas City could have had him cheaper. That was my point. Based on last year, Billy Butler was a slow singles hitter with no alternate skillset. Yet he showed more in every offensive category than Morales, who also has no alternate skillset.
I do agree that Butler was overpaid by Oakland. He probably should have gotten what Morales got from KC. Morales should have gotten half that.
He’s healthy
yep, he was last year too.
Greene = Porcello at 1/20th the cost this year and 1/40th the cost next year. Same age. Greene can have an ERA of 3.95 the rest of this year an still have season ERA of under 3.50 (assuming 180 innings), which would be better than 5 out of 6 years of Porcello in a Tigers uniform. That is how good he has been in his first 3 starts.
Shane Greene came out of nowhere like Jacob DeGrom but I feel Greene is more like Doug Fister(rely on D) so I don’t blame the Yanks.I do blame Cash for only getting Didi but he stinks at trades.The fact A Rod is the best hitter right now exposes Cashman considering he didn’t want him after 07
You used three “but”s in one sentence…
what are you talking about?
Had the Yankees not signed A-Rod they would have a had alot more money to sign others but looking at the markets afterward I’m glad they avoided guys like Hamilton, Pujols, Scherzer, Lester, Shields, etc…
I think next year they actually make a run at ian desmond for their shortstop, I don’t see Didi panning out as their shortstop down the road.
I hope they don’t target Desmond, and if they do I hope they aren’t the highest bidders even if they get him on a short term deal with a high AAV like Panda or Hanley, which I doubt he’ll pass for a long term deal.
Lester I disagree(no draft pick) but other than that I understand. Hamilton in NYC with his problems =trouble. He has a similar mold to Mantle and could only imagine if he didn’t throw away 7 years away
While the early returns on this particular trade do not look good and if we’re being honest it really wasn’t a great idea in the first place, trades have historically been one of the better aspects of Cashman’s tenure.
The trades for Abreu, Nady, McCarthy, Granderson, Swisher stand out in the somewhat recent past.
In general Cashman has been good with trades but I think he’s been even better at finding value off the scrap heap when he’s brought in guys like Freddy Garcia, Colon, Kerry Wood, Chris Young, Andrew Jones (good 2011 season), etc
every single trade you mention except for Granderson(arguable) and Nady was a salary dump!!!!! Granderson wasn’t even the best player in that trade that goes to Max(Tigers). Tell me how many good trades he made that money wasn’t involved? The man can’t hold a candle to Gene Michael(edited).
It doesn’t really matter that Scherzer was the best player in the trade.
It also doesn’t matter that they were salary dumps. The ability to take on large contracts isn’t exclusive to the Yankees. In the case of McCarthy and Swisher, the Yankees clearly liked the underlying peripherals for both players and jumped at the chance to buy low.
Who’s gene Mcmichael?
I believe he worked for the McBoss George McSteinbrenner.
As a Tigers fan, I can assure you that the Granderson trade at the time was largely about dumping salary too.
The fact that the Tigers shed so much payroll in that deal, and still came out of it with Scherzer and Austin Jackson made it an absolute steal from their perspective.
They probably wouldn’t have been able to sign Victor Martinez the first time had they not made that trade.
Can any one strikeout Royals hitters?
Only if your Kershaw or Bumgarner, if your not those two then I doubt it
Twins need RP with high K’s? The Dodgers have a lot of guys doing it out of the pens in Tulsa, OKC, and LA. 6’3 LHP Chris Reed has excelled since moving to the Tulsa pen this year. 1.12 ERA, 8 IP, 0 HR, 5.6 H/9, 2.2 BB/9, 10.1 K/9. LA has multiple lefties higher than him if the Twins want something cheaper or closer to ML. Coulombe, Buchter, Liberatore, Huff, Howell, and Paco just to name the lefties. Minnesota has a comp B pick and big IFA pool that could appeal to LA if they want to keep their prospects.
Twins have guys in the minors with high k rates as well, including Michael Tonkin who has struck out batters in the Majors. For some reason Terry Ryan in electing to go with veteran mediocrity.
I think that’s called “The Minnesota Way”. It used to be the way the Pirates and Royals did business, too, but they figured it out.
I think the royals got the bargain of the offseason so far, Morales is on fire and has a hit in every game except for one, Wish the angels and him could of had a reunion this year
Patience my friends. There is every reason to believe the Tigers scouts may have been right in believing Greene could be a younger, cheaper Doug Fister.
However, it is foolish to think at this stage that Didi can’t be everything Yankee scouts expected. Patience.
Its extremely soon to judge what the Royals are getting. Good if Moustakas has turned the corner… But it wouldn’t be the first time he’s hit in streaks. Let’s not get too cocky. Morales is also certainly going to hit .351 for the season as well. The bullpen is certainly special. Can anyone imagine if the Dodgers could pitch Kershaw with a lead… That’s the equivalent of what the Royals can back end with a lead.
Yea him and Hosmer can start hot then cool off
This team for the past several season has had some solid streak in them. Difference will be if they can avoid a prolonged losing one. That bullpen just makes things very tough. It’s a very good team…but they can’t have too many bolts come off
They have a lights out bullpen, but the thing that will worry me for them is how much of the loss of Shields will hit them down the stretch, those innings lost are key, but hopefully they can keep up, I have the white sox or the royals taking the central title away from the tigers.
They will get help from the farm likely. Bullpen helps the rotation a bit. They certain took chances over the offseason.
I really like what the White Sox can be on paper. The rotation can be excellent 1-4. I see the Tigers as always a threat, but the most likely to break down by injury. It’s going to be close.
I know the royals will get Medlen back, and hochevar. Not sure if Zimmer recovered from his injuries. Then they can always call up brandon finnegan
Can’t rule out a trading deadline deal as well. Really surprised they weren’t in on Samardzija… 9.4m over 1 seems right for them.
Not sure who the royals had to give up though, he would of been a nice 1 year replacement for shields, but I think they got the bargain of the offseason, getting morales , off to a hot start, he seems to be back in the 2009 form where he finished 4th or 5th in the al mvp voting, he should of won it that year imo
I’m guessing the deal of Samardzija to the Sox was a reasonable accommodation for him. I just can’t imagine the Sox couldn’t have been outbid.
I’m not sure I’d call Morales a steal. They paid a lot for him and might have been bidding against themselves. He can certainly hit the contract… But he wasn’t exactly off the scrap heap price wise. I know what you’re saying though.
A cheaper price then what the a’s offered butler I think, If Morales can keep up the hitting maybe hit around 20+hr’s and 80-90 rbi’s it will deepen the royals line up and whenever rios comes back, even deeper
I had Morales pegged for 20 Hr..about same RBI…I think he and Rios replace Butler nice. They were smart not giving out long deals. They needed righty bats…the series revealed that Achilles heel against lefties.
Yea, imo I think the royals or white sox do take the central crown away from the tigers, because the tigers lost two pitchers, scherzer and porcello, that is two 200 inning guys at least, royals lost shields but have some depth behind it, the white sox have a better rotation and bullpen then last year, so their going to be in it till the end. The bullpen will come back and haunt the tigers.
Probably come down to a few games. White Sox can send out Sale, Samardzija, Rodon, and Quintana at some point. That might be filthy come second half.
Key to the Royals is still Hosmer taking an offensive leap and becoming a mini Joey Votto and not James Loney
Greene felt “dumped?” I don’t get that. This trade may end up being an absolute disaster for the Yankees, but you don’t get something without giving something. And Greene is 26 years old, with six seasons in the minor leagues, and a career minor league ERA of 4.39, with a 1.479 WHIP. The Yankees had to do something to replace Jeter. Maybe this is a mistake. And maybe Greene will win the Cy Young, and go on to be the second coming of Greg Maddux. He’s pitched in 3 games. When he gets to 30, let’s review a second time. And then a few more seasons later.
I don’t know if it’s entirely fair to judge Greene solely on his minor league ERA.
You look at the numbers a little deeper and he’s consistently been a guy who struck hitters out at a pretty good clip and was stingy with home runs. He had a few seasons where he certainly walked more batters than one would like and he had a track record of being pretty hittable.
So far in his pretty limited time in the big leagues, he’s hasn’t given up a ton of homers and has more or less kept his BB/K rates in line with what he did in the minors.
I completely agree. Lets look back on this one in a few seasons. This looked like an even trade and I am sure Gregoriois will be a serviceable SS.
I thought there was going to news about the late Bob Moose, a pretty good pitcher for the Pirates in the 70’s. He had a no-hitter.
The post is just filled with conclusions based on small sample sizes. That being said, low k/9 or not the Twins BP is just plain lousy, the only reason Blaine Boyer or Tim Stauffer should be anywhere near a major league BP is if they bought tickets near one. Things should improve with time though as the Twins have assembled a good collection arms for both the BP and the rotation that should have an easier time striking batters out.