6:33pm: Newsday’s Marc Carig hears that the Mets have indeed discussed Aramis Ramirez with the Brewers. Any trade involving Ramirez would be more about how much of his contract the Mets would take on as opposed to what the Brewers would get in return. As for Segura, Carig writes that he’s not likely to be made available.
Though the two sides have talked, a Ramirez trade seems unlikely. FOX’s Ken Rosenthal hears that there’s little traction in Ramirez discussions because Milwaukee is uninterested in Niese (Twitter links). While Gee might be a better fit, there would be a lot more financial legwork to figure out in that scenario, per Rosenthal. Gee is owed a bit more than $3MM through season’s end, but Ramirez is owed an additional $8.8MM.
It could be argued that adding Ramirez wouldn’t be an upgrade for the Mets anyhow. While the team may very well benefit from upgrading by replacing Niese or Gee with Matz, much of that benefit could be outweighed by the lack of flexibility to make future moves as well as the possibility that Ramirez continues to produce at a sub-replacement-level pace.
5:37pm: The Mets have placed their efforts to trade a starting pitcher on hold during the draft but will now look to trade a starting pitcher “in short order,” tweets Newsday’s David Lennon. That lines up with recent reports from ESPN New York’s Adam Rubin and the New York Post’s Mike Puma stating that lefty Steven Matz could be up in the near future — perhaps before the end of June.
In order to accommodate Matz, the team seems likely to increase its efforts to find a taker for lefty Jon Niese (earning $7MM in 2015 and guaranteed $9MM in 2016 plus a pair of club options) or righty Dillion Gee (earning $5.3MM in 2015 and controllable via arbitration for the 2016 season). Both Niese and Gee could be viewed as superfluous with Matt Harvey, Jacob deGrom, Noah Syndergaard and the veteran Bartolo Colon all representing options, to say nothing of Matz or the currently injured Rafael Montero.
Furthermore, Jon Morosi of FOX Sports reports that the Mets and Brewers have had preliminary trade talks, with the Mets eyeing Milwaukee’s position players (Twitter link). That might lead to speculation regarding Aramis Ramirez, though in yesterday’s report, Rubin stated that the Mets have little to no interest in Ramirez. The Mets feel that Ramirez’s skills are diminishing, and they’re still hopeful that David Wright will contribute in 2015, so they prefer more versatile bats that can handle multiple positions.
Speculatively speaking, Jean Segura would make sense for the Mets, who have long been looking for an upgrade at shortstop due to defensive deficiencies with Wilmer Flores. Of course, Segura himself is not regarded as an elite defender, though his .287/.322/.408 batting line is superior to Flores’ .245/.270/.417 triple-slash. Segura also comes with an additional three years of club control beyond the 2015 season, making the likely asking price relatively significant. As such, it’s tough to imagine Gee or Niese serving as a significant component in a trade for Segura, though the Mets could always add other pieces.
It’s worth emphasizing, of course, that Morosi categorized trade talks between New York and Milwaukee as “preliminary,” and there are plenty of other teams that may have interest in swapping a versatile, if unspectacular bat for a veteran innings eater that can stabilize the back end of a rotation.
There are a number of other teams looking for some stabilization in the rotation. The Astros and Rays, for instance, have both incurred injuries to starters and have some versatile pieces to offer. Luis Valbuena hasn’t hit especially well this season, but he’s a earning a not-insignificant $4.2MM and could add some power to the Mets’ lineup, with the injured Jed Lowrie slotting back into his position once activated from the DL. The Rays have a number of versatile pieces, including Logan Forsythe, Nick Franklin and Asdrubal Cabrera. Forsythe has probably been too valuable for Tampa to move, however, while Franklin would figure to have more trade value than that of a back-end starter, and Cabrera has played quite poorly of late. A couple other versatile pieces that could be theoretical trade fits if the Mets can sweeten the deal would be the Mariners’ Brad Miller and the Dodgers’ Alex Guerrero.
A player such as Martin Prado or Ben Zobrist would seem to be a strong fit for the Mets’ desires, as Rubin noted yesterday, though they, too, would be difficult to acquire without including pieces beyond Gee or Niese.
As the above speculation indicates, it’s difficult to find an obvious fit for the Mets, as neither Gee nor Niese is teeming with trade value. GM Sandy Alderson will likely have his work cut out for him if his aim is to both free a spot in his rotation for Matz and add a bat that can help at the Major League level in one fell swoop. One way of accomplishing the goal would be to include Montero in a trade, but the promising young hurler has been on the disabled list since late April with a shoulder issue and has not yet begun a rehab assignment.
Segura and Braun too Mets….for Montero,Matz,Cecchini and Plawecki….
Unless this involves the Mets moving one of their more premium SP options for something to give the offense life, I don’t see the match as they’ve both got arms that seem to be very plausibly available.
I said it yesterday, if the Mets want to win this year AND next year, they need to man up…
Braun, Gomez, Aramis Ramirez (3rd now, DH in the world series…), and Segura for Degrom/Syndergaard/Matz (1 of the 3), Montero, 1 more above average prospect (Nimmo?) and 1 or 2 more average or below average prospects and we’ll take Niese’s contract and Gee too.
Braun, Gomez, Ramirez, Segura for Degrom/Syndergaard/Matz, Montero, Nimmo, 1 more prospect, Niese, Gee.
In 158 career games, WAR has Flores with a very good 10.2 defensive score. Why does UZR love him so much but the Mets hate him so much?
In 381 career games, WAR has Segura with a 4.3 defensive score.
Segura WAR 1.1, Flores 0.2. Even with the defensive metrics, Flores is barely above replacement level.
I see Flores improving next year offensively. He is 23-24, getting his first shot full time in the big leagues. His plate discipline will (hopefully) start to improve and increase his WAR. Flores also brings more power than Segura, and with growth Flores could become a legit power threat. I’d rather stick with Flores.
I like Segura, I think he CAN hit, eventually….even if you take out most of last season (after the loss of his infant son, and getting smacked on the head with a bat in the on deck circle), and the one terrific 1st half that nabbed him an All-Star spot….I question his upside offensively.
Huh? Fangraphs says Flores is 0.7 WAR and Segura 0.5. Where are you getting your info from???
There are multiple versions of WAR. Fangraphs’ uses UZR, which thinks Flores has been ok. Baseball-Reference’s is based on Defensive Runs Saved and Total Zone Rating, which think Flores is quite a bit below average.
Scouts have been questioning Flores’ glove at shortstop for quite some time.
Well scouts said Billy Burns had 20 power but he’s got 2 homers this year so…
Baseball reference.
I think it’s Mets FANS more than the Mets.
Mets’ fans are irrational when it comes to Flores. He is in the middle of the pack for WAR. Giving up quality prospects to “upgrade” his position…not worth it.
I doubt the Mets are looking for a “big” trade. In fact, I don’t think they are looking to target Segura at all. Flores is good enough up the middle that bringing in any other middle infield would just create clutter.
I’d be fine with swapping Gee/Niese (preferably Niese) for Ramirez. Similar amount of money. Mets get a veteran/gap filler, Milwaukee gets a year and a half of Niese.
For Braun, I think with his injury problems (thumb issues are troubling) he isn’t worth as much as Milwaukee fans might think he is. Montero and one of the young prospects would probably be fair, as well as eating a chunk of his contract. Gomez is worth a Matz, but I don’t feel like Sandy would want to give up THAT much for anyone.
I doubt there’s a big trade as well. I don’t really see the need for Niese or Gee unless its part of another move.
Braun’s thumb seems pretty well taken care of. I’m sure they wouldn’t bother with a trade where Montero was anything but a throw in.
I wouldn’t be surprised if its for the waiver claim guy from the tigers for some A ball prospect.
As a diehard Brewers fan who loves every player on our team, I’d say a trade of Ramirez to the Mets is a must. If we need to add Segura in the deal to get Montero and/or Plawecki, so be it
Ramírez would be an expensive downgrade over Flores, Tejada, and Murphy. We’ve got plenty of 3Bs better than the expensive shell of Aramis Ramírez. The only guys of interest on the Brewers would be Will Smith and Carlos Gómez, and maybe Braun.
Ramirez in a deal for Niese or Gee, the Brewers listen. Segura for either of those pitchers, no way.
Also, to everyone saying its a possibility, Braun will not be dealt. Not only is his contract too much, but Melvin (as insane and crappy as he is), will not give him up unless Matz or Syndergaard is coming back to Milwaukee, and I simply don’t see that happening.
Alexei Ramirez, Jose Quintana & Conor Gillaspie for Noah Syndergaard, Kevin Plawecki & Blake Taylor.
Ramirez is what they need, plus he has one more year on his contract. Quintana is underrated and just signed a team friendly contract. Gillaspie fills in at 3B until Wright comes back.
Syndergaard is a young, right handed, MLB ready pitcher the Sox need. Sale/Syndergaard/Rodon/Fulmer/? would be a great rotation to have starting in 2017. Plawecki in Chicago would mean the end for either Flowers or Soto. Taylor could be that 5th starter in 2018.
L.O.L
Yeah, you can go ahead and remove the Quintana & Syndergaard parts of that trade and then you may have something.
Not really. Flores is better than Alexei Ramírez; why would the Mets want to downgrade?
Because there’s this thing called depth?
Tejada’s better than 2015 Alexei Ramírez. Wilfredo Tovar is probably better than 2015 Alexei Ramírez. Gavin Cecchini is certainly better than 2015 Alexei Ramírez. Why would the Mets want someone who represents a downgrade over our Major League SS, our Major League backup SS, our AAA SS, and our AA SS?
You want to give up a top catching prospect and a 2nd rounder for a backup SS worse than the Mets’ MLB SS, MLB backup SS, AAA SS, and AA SS. That’s really not defendable at all.
That’s a horrible trade. Why would the Mets want aging Alexei Ramirez with no power (who’s also not very good anymore) and inconsistent Quintana for young upside talent like Syndergaard and Plawecki. These homer trades get more and more ridiculous.
Wrong…that’s an excellent trade and Rick Hahn makes Billy Beane soil himself in jealousy at Hahn’s stellar GM skills..lol
I’d actually like to see the Rockies work something out for Plawecki. I’m not going to get into the whole Tulo extravaganza…but the Rockies could really use a top young catcher.
The Rockies are pretty strong at catcher in the minors led by Tom Murphy. Plus Nick Hundley has been playing very well this season. I could see them possibly making a play for Niese and/or Gee though.
Hold on a second. You want the Mets to downgrade from Flores to Alexei Ramírez, downgrade from Syndergaard to José Quintana, and then throw in Conor Gillaspie? I can’t even begin to describe how impossibly unrealistic that is. Go back to the drawing board, mate. That’s horrific.
Syndergaard is a similar prospect to Rodon. This is pretty much like me asking Rodon for Ruben Tejada and Jon Niese.
I’ve been saying this for awhile. It’ll be Gee for Aramis Ramirez.
a .213/.257 hitter will really help them
Aramis is a notoriously slow starter with the bat. He had over an .800OPS last season and has been that type of batter for his long career. You’re not going to get that kind of potential top 12 3b bat for Dillon Gee except trading for Ramirez.
Are you a Brewers fan? Just curious because I was wondering if you would think a Gee for Ramirez would be a fair trade. I usually only hear from Mets fans, and it would be nice to get another fan’s perspective.
Yeah Brewer Fan. Peralta is on the DL. Trading Ramirez is strictly a salary dump. I wouldn’t be happy with Gee, but for salary relief and getting a SP to help the team get through the season would be good for the cause. Garza and Fiers aren’t exactly the clean bill’s of health for a record on their side. It’d be amazing to get both for 33 Starts on the season. Gee is an insurance
I’m a realistic Brewers fan And gee doesn’t fit a need think high a with potential and full options and control a non 40 player with a high ceiling and low floor a helwig type player
Hmmm…yeah I don’t think a deal gets done in that case. The players who might match that description are Molina or Meisner. I don’t think Alderson would trade them for a rental unless it’s for a player like Zobrist, and even then I am not sure.
You’re a huge Brewers’ homer. Tejada, Flores, and Murphy are all better options at 3B than Ramírez at this point in his career, and the Mets don’t have to trade anybody to use them. I’d be perfectly fine with sending you Gee or Niese for Smith, though.
I can only agree on Flores being a better 3b option, but now someone has to play SS and that option with Flores playing 3b is far worse than Ramirez. Murphy is and always has been strictly a 2b. He also happens to be on the DL…great option. Tejada is a joke. AAAA utility player at best if Wright were healthy Tejada would be waived. Smith is worth more than both Gee/Niese combined with the Mets paying 95% of their contracts. There’s a reason both of them are still on the Mets. Nobody wants their talentless/expensive selves.
Uhg..he is that bad?
No, He finished !
Is it just reading statistics that leads to the comment about Segura’s defense? Watching him every day, he excels in pretty much everything.
Adam Rubin says that the Mets are NOT interested in Ramirez. In this situation, Segura & Gomez should be on the Mets wish list.
I want Segura. Niese/Gee and Montero? Maybe add Fulmer?
Flores is better than Segura. Why do you want to downgrade?
Not at all at SS. Flores can play 2B, and Murphy can play 3B.
What about Dilson Herrera, then? I would rather have Herrera at 2B with Flo at SS and Murphy at 3B than what you suggest.
The recent update puts things in a lot more realistic perspective, I was curious how exactly those talks went because the original post left room for a lot of speculation and/or head-scratching. So much for the blockbuster talk!
Mets need to go back in time and bring back 2005-2008 David Wright back with them.
Why stop the Delorian there? Why not go back to 86 and bring that whole team? That’d be a riot with Doc and Straw.
Nope, Alex Guerrero is going no where.
Would love him to go somewhere that he can play every day…..Mattingly isn’t going to do that….
Somehow, even Alberto Callapso is ahead of him in Mattingly’s pecking order.
Yeah, I really don’t know why he doesn’t play everyday. Turner needs to stick to being a utility guy, not getting a whole lot of PT.
If we walk away with Ramirez and not much else i may walk directly to Citi field and vomit on the Shea bridge. There has got to be a better option or two.
Be careful not to slip on all the other Mets fan vomit
Yeah, it’s tough being in first place despite pretty much everything going wrong (~14 guys on DL this year).
What else do you expect? Niese and Gee have almost no trade value at all. I’d be shocked if you got something decent. They’d be salary dumps.
If the Mets chose a Uribe-Gee trade they and the Dodgers would be a lot better off.
Murphy’s not as good defensively as Uribe at 3B but is at least his equivalent on offense at this point in his career.
Was Braun just pulled from the Brewers game?
No, No, NOOOOO! Though if it happens it would show a pulse and i may need to stop questioning my owners/FO for a few weeks.
it’s what I heard.
YESSSS – Braun pulled from the game with “Dizziness”
he’s dizzy because they traded him to the Mets?
Hopefully! I wouldn’t think theyd say yeah we’re pulling him because we’re trading him… still gotta be semi secretive about it!
If the Brewers eat up some salary I’m all for it.
What if we take Niese, Gee and Granderson too? haha
If you take those three, as a thank you I’d take up all of his salary and give you Harvey.
Deal
Dizziness.. you had to tease me like that Braun..
Cubs will take Thor off your hands, Mets 😉
Give us Bryant.
Anyone that can hit the ball will do. This offense is sad and I’m really loosing hope each day. But, don’t trade the whole future for a little offense.
Untouchables- not counting Wright or Wheeler.. Harvey deGrom Syndergaard Matz, Lagares d’Arnaud, Familia Conforto
Maybe for the right player- Duda Flores Reynolds
Everyone else is fair game, I’d also stick with Murphy for now cause he’s our 3B for now and when he walks he may net a pick
Reynolds…meh, I’d need to see more. Right now I’d swap him for Rosario and I’d add Nimmo. There are some other bright spots in the minors who made some great strides this season, but you need to be willing to trade some talent.
Reynolds has a utility player ceiling. And no, Duda’s not going anywhere right now, unless “for the right player” includes Trout/McCutchen, etc.
What I don’t get is why the last place brewers who have announced they are going into rebuilding mode would want to acquire a 28 year old or 29 year old pitchers who aren’t any better than the ones they already have?
Ramirez for a mid level prospect makes a lot more sense.
Also add to the block:
Lohse
Garza
Segura or sardinas
Gennett
Lind
Krod
Fiers
Gomez
Ramirez’ salary is why they would take on Niese or Gee. They’re not getting a prospect worth anything for Ramirez and they’d still eat a majority of the contract.
Doesn’t make sense for a rebuilding team.
It does if it leads to more salary relief. Should a Niese/Gee be pitching well going into next year’s trade deadline, you could net a decent prospect that you won’t get for Ramirez.
He’s a career .285 hitter averaging 29 homers per year. He’s off to a slow start but his numbers last year weren’t bad.
I sure he will finish with respectable numbers this year as well.
There’s no reason we can’t get a decent minor leaguer for him.
He’s been declining for a few years, though, and there’s a good chance he’s done. The important thing to remember is he’s owed $8.8 M for the remainder of the season. That’s a lot to take on in hopes he rebounds to his career norms.
Everyone not on steroids declines but look up his numbers not bad last year.
I do think the brewers will be stuck paying a chuck of his salary if they want a youngster back for him though, you’re right.
It isn’t last year and it isn’t 2009, or whenever it when Aramis was one of the best 3B in the game. The Mets have at least 3 to 4 guys better at offense who can play 3B competently right now.
Price for Niese (LHP, age 28) and Gee (RHP, age 29) and a top 100 prospect would be a win/win deal.
Mets Rotation would be terrifying to opponents with 5 solid starters.
Tigers would trade an ace for two middle rotation guys to keep them in more games and would provide Porcello-like value for multiple years. Tigers could then remain competitive this year AND have a future.
More interesting may be Syndergard, Granderson and either Niese or Gee for Price and Cespedes
Mets really need a bat upgrade. Tigers would then get an top younger and an older pitcher, both under control. Granderson is a downgrade in LF from Cespedes, but he is Left Handed and his bloated contract would be needed to get deal done.
The Tigers would only trade Price for impact-type guys. You can get players with Gee/Niese upside for pennies in free agency. Look at guys like Aaron Harang, Scott Kazmir, and Bartolo Colón for recent examples.
Would love to see the Pirates add Niese or Gee to replace Locke at the back of the rotation.
I’m all for trading Niese and Gee and some other good but not great pieces but those of you that are suggesting we offer any of our stud pitchers are insane. Harvey, Degrom, Syndergaard and Matz are untouchable. With those four guys pitching (and don’t forget Wheeler) for the Mets the next 5+ seasons, we’re going to be very competitive, even with a mediocre offense. And the offense is going to get better as young guys like Flores, D’Arnaud, Herrera and Lagares get more experience against big league pitching. Flores is on pace to hit 20 home runs this year. If he can get his average up to something in the area of .275, we’re talking about an all-star SS, at least offensively. And his defense has been much better lately. Add Duda and Murphy to that equation and you’ve got a nice offensive infield. And if Wright gets healthy, then we’ve really got something. Grandy and Cuddy may have been questionable signings but they’ll produce enough to keep us in games. Lagares is dealing with health issues right now but he’s the best defensive center fielder in baseball. I hope the Mets are trying to trade Niese and Gee for minor league talent that can help the team in 2016 or 2017. Some outfield speed would be nice. Mets are 23rd in the league in SB. Would be nice to add someone that can swipe a bag here and there. Help us manufacture runs in the low scoring games we are frequently involved in.
I agree w. everything except Murphy, who is gone after this yr. As long as he can come back from injury play decently well, they should extend him a QO, which he should turn down. I know it is a risk…but I think worthwhile given the contracts we saw this past off season.
I dunno, man. If we could swing a three way deal moving some pitching (Harvey, Montero, +) for something like a Baez/Reddick package, we should definitely consider getting creative.
Han Ram, Napoli, Panda for any SP better than what the BoSox have now would be fine by me…