The Braves are giving teams the impression that it’ll take a huge haul to land Julio Teheran, Jayson Stark of ESPN.com reports (Twitter link). In fact, Atlanta is signaling that it wants a return that’s “better than the Shelby Miller deal,” per a rival executive. Despite their many young arms, and ongoing rumblings regarding Teheran, the Braves are actually looking at starting pitching, GM John Coppolella tells David O’Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution (on Twitter). Atlanta has had talks about controllable arms, per the report. Presumably, the organization is looking for value opportunities that fit its contention timeline.
Here’s more from the NL East:
- The Braves have moved hyped prospect Ozhaino Albies down to Double-A, O’Brien tweets. It’s not a demotion, though Albies was struggling a bit at Triple-A. He’ll play second base there, pairing up with shortstop Dansby Swanson as the team’s hopeful future double-play combo gets comfortable together.
- Injured Mets third baseman David Wright spoke to the media today and left the impression that he’s unlikely to return this year, as MLB.com’s Anthony DiComo was among those to report. (Twitter links.) When asked whether he thought he’d be back for 2016, Wright responded: “I don’t know. I really don’t know.” But the veteran did emphasize that he has every expectation of returning to the field at some point in the future.
- Meanwhile, Mets GM Sandy Alderson suggested recently that he doesn’t believe a major new addition is necessary to boost the team. As Marc Carig of Newsday tweets, Alderson says: “We have the capacity in the 25-man roster at this point to improve over what we’ve done over the last couple of months.”
- The Phillies don’t expect any major player movement this summer, MLB.com’s Todd Zolecki writes. Notably, Philadelphia isn’t even sure it’ll deal righty Jeremy Hellickson, who is only under contract for this season and is pitching well enough that he’ll draw interest (though probably not a terribly exciting return). The club is under even less pressure with its relief corps, which hasn’t been quite as electric in recent weeks but still has several interesting options.
He’s not getting moved. No one will meet our reasonably astronomical price. Which is fine with me honestly
Agreed
The haul they got for Miller was unreasonable, but expecting more for Teheran is reasonable? What are you on?
I don’t think he necessarily means it’s realistic to actually get a better haul than the Miller trade, but that the lofty price is a reasonable expectation for the Atlanta front office because they have no need to move Teheran at this time.
Julio is under control through 2019, and he’s only 25. While his peripherals scare some statisticians, he’s consistently outperformed them and proven to be the Braves most reliable starter for several years (even if he’s not a true #1 he has been theirs), which is key to this rebuilding club. They have a lot of highly regarded pitching prospects, but none of them are guaranteed to succeed, especially with their high expectations, let alone reach the bigs. So, I think they need to hang onto him as the anchor to their rotation until (a) he nears the end of his contract and value, (b) some of their prospects make it to the MLB and show consistent success, and/or (c) they receive a trade proposal better than the Miller deal.
Even if they never end up trading him through the end of his contract, he’ll be in his prime (barring injuries and a significant drop-off in performance, which there’s no indication will happen yet). This is when Atlanta is expected to start competing again. At that point if they don’t still have Julio on the team, they’d likely be looking for a pitcher of his type (ceiling #2, solid #3 and at worse workhorse #4), like many contending teams often look for in the offseason or trade deadline.
Again, Atlanta doesn’t need to trade him; in fact right now they need to keep him. That is why they’re asking for the world, and then some. (And for the record, I don’t think they’ll get such a deal)
Is a better haul than the Shelby Miller trade even possible?
There’s always a prettier girl. Yes, it is definitely possible. BOS has the capability but not the guts to beat that.
I think you mean that Boston has the intelligence not to beat that.
You misspelled stupidity as GUTS.
Uhhh…. I’m gonna go with DMC on this one. Boston could very well win the WS this year but they need to solidify their rotation and IMO they need a great farm system all that much. They have money.
They could very win the WS this year, but they aren’t stupid enough to trade a bigger haul than Arizona did.
They could win the World Series this year, but so could any playoff team. Playoffs are a crapshoot, and BOS is trying to set themselves up to be perennial playoff contenders- not short-term gamblers.
Teheran fits both bills. 25, under control for many years at a very cheap price. He could help them win the WS and help achieve perennial greatness.
He’s a much better pitcher than Miller. Adding someone like Teheran makes “perennial playoff contender” much more reachable, considering the Sox’s pitching woes.
It’s a steep price, but the Miller haul was only lauded as much as it was because Shelby Miller had one really good season (and another pretty decent one) while only having arbitration years remaining. Teheran’s got four-plus years of team control remaining at lower-than-arbitration prices. He’s absolutely more valuable than Miller and should command a similar package…maybe not better because Dave Stewart gave away too much, but similar.
-C
A huge haul of Inciarte (under performing-barely batting his weight most if the season), Aaron Blair (who owns about a 9.00era so far and can barely break90 with his fb), Dansby Swanson(who is battling to stay above .260 ba in AA….yea we gained so much for our #1 starter…riiiggghhhhtttt
If you think Blair with his 9.00era or Inciarte barely batting his weight, or Dansby(barely hitting .260 in AA) is a great haul for Shelby Miller who had an era under 2.00 for most of the year and hit 97mph consistently ….and controllable…then you need your head examined
They have no guts and are quite stupid
Swanson isn’t battling to stay above .260. He struggled for a little while, but he’s been hitting close to a .400 clip over the past 10 games. Good prospects tend to adjust like that.
And condemning a newly promoted pitcher after a handful of major league starts is just sad. Inciarte has dealt with injuries this season, but still has provided value despite it with his defense (which was his major value when acquired).
It was a major haul for multiple reasons. But the big thing is the package had significantly more trade value than Miller alone. If you don’t believe that then you’re in a very small minority.
And there is a problem with how you’re using your info. You use present day statistics to try to slam the players Arizona traded away, but you use Miller’s statistics from last season to defend it.
While I genuinely hope that Miller rebounds for Arizona if the trade was solely based on their value today then the trade appears even more lopsided.
The Phillies have to trade Hellickson. What exactly do hey stand to gain by not trading him?
Nothing
Whatever they can get for him, blanco, bourjous, Asche , Ruiz they should get. If the Dodgers want Rupp for a good return that would be fine too. Not winning this year so no sense in hanging on to these players if someone is willing to give a good return
Need to release Howard
Teheran has a much higher excess value on his contract than Shelby Miler had at the time of the trade. Miller was +72Million and Teheran is +107Million. Thus the Braves should expect more in a deal. A deal should look something like:
Red Sox: Blake Swihart plus Yoan Moncada and Andrew Benintendi.
Astros: Preston Tucker plus Alex Bregman and AJ Reed.
Dodgers: Joc Peterson plus Jose De Leon and Austin Barnes.
Yankees: Gary Sanchez plus Aaron Judge and Domingo Acevedo.
Cubs: Javier Baez plus Willson Contreras and Ian Happ.
Rangers: Nomar Mazara plus Joey Gallo and Lewis Brinson.
Diamondbacks: Jean Segura plus Braden Shipley and Socrites Britto.
Pirates: Sterling Marte plus Josh Bell and Austin Meadows.
Colorado Rockies: Nolan Arenado.
Los Angeles Angels: Mike Trout.
Baltimore Orioles: Manny Machado.
If those are the options, I’m pretty sure Braves fans will have plenty of opportunity to cheer for Teheran in the next few years.
BTW, did you seriously suggest Mike Trout 1 for 1 for Teheran? I’m not even going to comment on the Arenado idiocy.
What, you wouldn’t give up the best player in the game for a decent #2? Or what about the two best 3rd basemen in the game? I swear Braves fans are the worst. Every team has their share of bad fans but Braves fans seem to be consistently awful.
Well you are a Rockies fan so I’ll take anything you say with a grain of salt
Cocaine is a helluva drug. I’m a Braves fan but no way and I mean no way is Teheran worth trout or Manny Machado straight up.
These trade proposals are hilarious and fantastic.
Marte straight up isn’t even good
You’re not much of a guru lol.
The Dodgers should be Urias + Kershaw.
Should probably include Seager just to be sure
Screw it. Why not just the Dodgers for him. With his god like talent nobody will ever get a hit off him and scully can catch
I’m a braves fan too and these made me laugh way too much to be real
Lol, the only thing more laughable than the Braves are their fans…
You’re pretty laughable to me troll
Just…..wow.
I’m really hoping this was sarcasm…
I can understand the Braves asking for a better haul than the Shelby Miller trade. Doesn’t mean they’ll get it because everyone (even Braves fans) know that was a massive overpay by Dave Stewart. While I don’t see Teheran even getting traded at this point, I can see him getting slightly more than Miller if he were to get traded. Although if a GM gives up more than three top 5 prospects plus an MLB ready player/prospect…he should be fired immediately. Not trying to knock Teheran by saying that (although I still haven’t jumped on the Teheran bandwagon yet), it’s just that I don’t see a scenario where Teheran helps that much in the current or future years to be worth giving up that much. He would have to pitch at an ace-caliber level while leading his team to a WS win to justify a massive haul.
Yea Blair, Inciarte, and Dansby are so impressive…NOT
xFIP isn’t one of those stats…
To get Teheran it will take a young mlb ready right handed power hitter with 3-4 years of control, a top 10 prospect pitcher close to the majors and a top 30 fringe pitching prospect with upside that is a few years away.
If you have stats that show future hall of fame player having a similar career path to Tehran I’d love to see them. I’m not talking about him having the same Win total as someone his first three seasons, I mean using actual sabermetrics, comparing players with similar body and makeup, looking at their development patterns and reading between the lines to suggest why Tehran is anywhere close to where you think he is. I doubt you can do that so I probably just wasted 10 seconds writing this.
Tom Glavine was a hall of fame pitcher that similarly out performed periferial stats such as FIP
You people with your saber metrics amuse the hell outta me…they amount to a hill of shi+!
Absolutely they do! That’s why every MLB team has adotpted them and they continue to get results. Just because you’re too dumb to understand something, doesn’t mean it doesn’t work. If we were still using the same stats as the 60’s, Drew Hutchison would be praised as one of the best pitchers of last year. But you probably don’t know who that is without google considering your clear ignorance on baseball.
I have never seen such a wide gap between the the perceived value of a players current teams fans and the way the rest of the league views him.
Read some of the Boston fan comments. Every prospect is already in the HOF.
Lol
That would be because they’re idiots
The major difference between Dave Stewart and another trading GM is time and knowing what they have. Dave Stewart thought he was building a contender with the Miller trade. Any GM trading with Atlanta now knows they have a contender and would be rounding out their rotation, not building it like Stewart did. So maybe a GM will actually make a package for Julio. DD or Daniels I think are it, doubt Theo would.
Get what you can for Hellickson quick. He’s very overrated
Go check out the numbers for mat latos and Jair jurrjens through there first four years
With the international signings the Braves made, starting in 2017, the Braves will have the best Farm League in Baseball. Not to mention that the Braves have moved Albeis down to AA to get reps at 2nd base with SS Swanson, these 2 guys will be the Guys of the Braves infield up the middle while Maitan will take over 3rd base. The Braves need a catcher in the worst way, as well as they need to find a home for Markakis. The Giants are in desperate need of a RF since Pence is out. Not to mention that the Giants could use some RP. This would be the perfect trade scenario for both teams. Especially if the Giants could part with 1 of their 3 SS prospects and ask the Giants to take on all of Markakis salary. As far as Teheran, I say keep him unless a contender like the Red Sox, Rangers, Yankees, or Marlins are willing to part with a decent bat and/or catcher…..
Red Sox get: Teheran
Braves get: Swihart and Pay half of Buchholtz remaining contract
Yankees get: Teheran
Braves get: Severino and Gary Sanchez
Rangers Get: Teheran
Braves Get: Bronson and Rangers pay half of the remaining contract of Derrick Holland.
The point is that the Braves could add a piece that they need plus add a SP whom they could use like Bud Norris and let the guy try to resurrect his career and then use him as trade bait next year for a contender.
No no and no
Red Sox should take that deal, swihart for Teheran straight up plus you get to move buchholtz for 1/2 price.
Dude….are you FREAKING KIDDING ME? NO FREAKING WAY do we trade Teheran STRAIGHT UP for Swihart AND pay half of Buckoltz Salary, lol! WTF are you smoking? I want NO PART of Buckholtz! Swihart is Boston’s 6 or 7th highest ranked prospect!
Dude…Boston has to be willing to deal 5 of its top prospects in Moncada, Bentenidi, Espinoza, Devers, Shaw, Kopech…and then maybe include Swihart (especially if we throw in our close Adroys Vizcaino in the trade…who has been pitching lights out…..and is hella cheap until 2020 as well. Mortgage the farm…if you want to get back in The World Series anytime soon!
If not….then you’ll be watching October Baseball on tv with my Braves…because we will either HAPPILY keep Teheran for the next 4 1/2 years with his CHEAP contact…OR….maybe a team like The Yankees, Dodgers or Rangers will overpay for him come This Off Season! We are in the driver’s seat here guys. It’s a seller’s market. Fair/reasonable….out the window. The law of supply and demand is! Pay the piper…or get the FCUK OUT!
The Astros are the perfect spot for Teheran. The stros have the position players they desire and they need someone to help anchor that rotation. Something like Preston Tucker, Derek Fisher, J.D. Davis, and Joe Musgrove. While it doesn’t jump out at you with a top 20 guy, this is the kind of the package the Braves desperately need. They have nothing coming around in the outfield. Fisher and Tucker would be in the corners by 2017 with Inciarte in center. Musgrove is a strike throwing machine and is just a healthy year away from being a good back end starter. Davis has great power and might be ready in a year or so. These are all expendable pieces for the Astros. Their starters will be around for at least three more years, Bregman will be manning 3b in no time, and have depth in their system with outfielders like Kyle Tucker, Teoscar Hernandez, and Kemp.
Dude….Teheran is going to cost you Tucker AND Bergman…in addition to Hernandez and that 1st basemen Bell (I think his name is that) in Triple A. We aint giving him to you guys on the cheap either. Boston wants him, The Dodgers want him, The Yankees may be prepared to make a huge trade in the winter for him. Texas may make a play for him before the deadline. Just wait until August 1st….pressure is a MOFO, lol! Exciting to see which trade proposals my Braves sift through! They better be OVERWHELMING…or NO DICE! Good luck watching October baseball on tv!
Bergman, Tucker, Fisher, Hernandez and Bell (your 1st baseman in Triple A, I think)…will all be needed to send Atlanta’s way for Teheran and Vizcaino (which would require another young pitching prospect too). Teheran for your starting pitching…Vizcaino for your bullpen to shore it up! Playoff bound! Simple as that.
However if you don’t…..bye bye playoffs! The Dodgers, Red Sox or Rangers may make a play for Teheran and Vizcaino. It’s a Seller’s Market fellas…don’t forget it!