Commissioner Rob Manfred spoke with the media about the Indians’ use of the Chief Wahoo logo, as Ken Davidoff of the New York Post was among those to report. Manfred said that he plans to discuss the usage of the logo with the team’s owner, Paul Dolan, after the season. The depiction is “offensive to some people,” said Manfred, “and all of us at Major League Baseball understand why.” Though he certainly hinted that the league would like to see a change, Manfred did stress that it was “primarily a local matter,” saying that “it’s not easy as coming to the conclusion and realizing that the logo is offensive to some segment.”
Here are a few more notes from the American League:
- Roch Kubatko of MASNsports.com wonders whether the Orioles could get creative with the increasingly expensive, but also increasingly dominant lefty Zach Britton. The club seems set to hold onto Britton and maintain his role as the closer in 2017, notes Kubatko. But he suggests the team could consider a trade, an extension, or even a return to the rotation for the 28-year-old. That last option would come with considerable upside, but also quite a bit of risk. Britton didn’t succeed in the majors until he moved to the pen — following a roughly similar trajectory to Andrew Miller — and Kubatko adds that the team has some questions about his durability in a rotation role.
- Dealing Britton or star third baseman Manny Machado wouldn’t make sense for the Orioles, Steve Melewski of MASNsports.com opines. While the club has only two years of control remaining over these two elite players, and could surely obtain an impressive haul of prospects for either, Melewski argues that the roster is set up to keep pushing to win over 2017-18.
- Apart from adding a starter, the Rangers’ priority this winter is to find a center fielder, as Jeff Wilson of the Fort-Worth Star Telegram writes. Ian Desmond and Carlos Gomez both are candidates to return after their stints in Texas, with GM Jon Daniels noting that “they have kind of a similar profile.” Indeed, there are quite a few similarities, extending from their eye-popping tool sets to some inconsistencies in production. The GM offered praise for both, noting that Gomez is more experienced playing center while Desmond — who he says he “spent a lot more time around” — impressed him greatly “as a person and [with] the consistency he brought from that standpoint.” Presumably, Texas will also at least consider other options, including Dexter Fowler and potential trade candidates.
Chief Wahoo…how is that not offensive. They need a better name.
I don’t find it offensive. Sick of the PC crap
I’m with you on that bigjonliljon.
You’re both wrong. The logo and name are offensive. But then you both are probably not Native American.
And neither are you!!
So do you.
What? Your mom couldn’t afford the “r” for your name, Patick?
Just Another Fan
Its even worse when you look up the history of how they picked that name…its not even celebrating Native American culture, it was a “media selection” based on the popularity of the Boston Braves at the time…over 100 years ago…if you honestly think culture has not improved and the ideals of what America is – freedom and liberty for ALL – the fact we have racist caricatures of groups of people as sporting team nicknames flies in the face of that.
For starters – the Indians, Braves, Chiefs and Redskins nicknames all need to go. We have sports teams named after weather and music, there’s a myriad of other non-demeaning options. If you do not understand how this is a microaggression designed to keep power in the hands of white males, you need to go to a library or take a night class.
The world is changing, stuff like this will eventually be gone – ask yourself if you want to be on the right or wrong side of history, as if you defend this, you are going to come off poorly to future generations.
Micro aggression?? It’s a baseball team name and, as you stated, created many years ago. No matter what name is selected, it is likely to offend someone, somewhere. There are political action groups (sounds like you’re a member of one or more) whose sole purpose is to look at everything and find something offensive about it, draw attention to their group and either extort $$$ or take trumped up legal action to cost the “offender” money or make them change, all so their group can tout their “success” and then move onto the next offender their researchers can find. It’s been a cottage industry that’s grown into a huge business. And it impact many more than just sports clubs. Every business in the country.
Rather than propagate more conspiracy theories, why not turn your groups energies to better the plight of those you purport to defend? Changing a sports team name will do nothing to better the lives of those you say are offended.
And not changing an insulting, racially insensitive team name will make the world better? You’re right, there are way more important issues that should take priority. But for some reason this issue has become part of the national discussion. Sm why ignore it? Iif it’s not a big deal, just change the stupid name already.
Absolutely without a doubt fact
That’s beyond silliness. This is a contrived attempt at trying to make something much ado about nothing. A sports team is named in reference to strength, power, and superiority. So… attempting to change the whole history and legacy of a team based on what a few, desperate to feel important white people think is just asinine. Few to no Native Americans find this offensive.
Definitely the wrong side…
You might as well add Yankees to that because I’m offended, the southern people call the northern people Yankees. So i feel it’s offensive
If you use the phrase microagression you automatically loose any and all credibility you have
It’s not offensive to me and I’m Native American.
Just Another Fan
A) You aren’t, that’s a lie.
B) If you really are, you have been brainwashed and are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome from systematic negative media representation of non-white people. Don’t you get it? You don’t even know it’s wrong because your entire life has been exposed to thinking: white = always right. It’s not offensive to you because you don’t view your life as being as important as white peoples. You also, if you are a Native American, have suffered from lack of educational opportunities, subject to alcoholism at much larger rates than the rest of the country and so many more systematic things designed to keep you down.
C) He’s actually just not offended by it.
Or D)he’s lying and you’re enabling him.
I’m Choctaw and Cherokee and I’m not offended at all by it. You’re delusional with all the PC going around if you think every native American is offended by the logo.
Wow.. this dude doesn’t stop with the PC propaganda..
Just another fan is the most blatantly easily person on this whole board yet he wants to defend everyone as if he is some kind of hero to native Americans who could care less
I agree with the fact that Native Americans have suffered greatly – while I’m not native myself, my son in law is, and I’ve spent much time working on and with reserves. And considering the real problems facing natives today, sport team names should really be low on the list. And I know an awful lot of natives who would agree that there are far higher priorities.
I’m referring to them as the Drones.
I thought they had retired the logo a while ago? I’ve only seen the C hats for a few years now, when did they resurrect the Wahoo logo?
They wore them last night.
Why does this have to happen in every sport now. Just let them play and stop caring about the logo, imo some if not most of the people offended don’t even watch the sport so they shouldn’t even care.
I meant imo I’ve noticed that…
and I’m sorry if I’m offending people by saying that.
You can delete my comments if you don’t think they should be on here because I’m 100% ok with it, I was just giving the view point of a freshmen in high school.
Coming from the view point of a junior in high school, you’re wrong.
Well your also 3 years older
Dookie Howser, MD
Well, you’re also 2 years older.
Spend more time in English and math class, less time arguing the politics of baseball.
“Coming from a freshman in hs” – oh… okay, makes sense then. Carry on
Imagine a Korean baseball league team named the Samsung Whiteys with a caricatured Caucasian named “White Trash Sam” for their logo. While many may in fact shrug that off, how can that be considered appropriate? And yet, CHIEF WAHOO.
Well as a white person I don’t find any names offensive personally. But that’s just me. Call them the Honkey Crackers and give them the Mr Skin logo.
As I’ve already stated, how you as an individual feel is irrelevant. There are many others who in fact do take offense. It isn’t appropriate.
His feelings are irrelevant?
Get over yourself.
Am good with they
That does have a nice ring to it.
Better the Little Big Horn Custers with a dead Custer logo. Let’s try that for the next 100 years and we’ll vote on it after.
Oh whites are so offended by that!! Oh no!!! Stop the hate!!
Its amazing. The steel workers never complain about the Pittsburgh Steelers. Do they find it demeaning? How about the boaters in Seattle with the Mariners? Tall people with the Giants? Maybe they should look at it as an honor. Pretend that the Cleveland Indians were named because they had a Native American on their team, when other teams didn’t.. Oh wait! You don’t have to pretend. Its fact. It’s similar to retiring 42 at all the stadiums for Jackie.
Just Another Fan
Steel workers used their free will to decide to become a steel worker.
No one uses their free will to determine their race. If you cant control it, you shouldn’t be belittled for it.
Oh ya because Mariners, steel workers and “Giants” have been treated like the native Americans were? Gotcha
If you spelled it “Stealers”…then ask that question.
Millennials: god help us all
I hope we can keep either Desmond or Gomez. Personally, I feel like gomez might be the cheaper option. Who knows tho. It’s a thin FA class.
They could always deal Britton and Machado for some real starting pitching, a replacement 3B and upgrades at the corner OF spots. That would in theory keep them in contention.
Machado for Jose De Leon, Alex Verdugo and Alex Wood
Britton for Colin Moran,Joseph Musgrove and James Hoyt
That is selling way too low on Britton and I really think they would get a lot more than that for Machado.
Haha, what? Those packages are far worse than just keeping Manny and Britton.
That Machado trade is absolute garbage.
Nah, I’m good here.
Selling extremely low on both
Just Another Fan
Horrific trade ideas, try again.
While a trade is always an option, the Orioles don’t need to trade to “keep them in contention”, especially at this point in time. They’re in contention. They’ve won more games than any other team in the AL since 2012.
Will they continue to win? Not sure about that, but I wouldn’t put all my eggs in the PECOTA basket either.
Baltimore can’t or won’t pony up the Money necessary to Keep Machado, Now two years they can get a haul of young Players before he tests the Free Agent Market, which will be 10 years at 26/27 million a year.
Only 4 Clubs in Bidding at that price, Yankees , Dodgers, Cubs and Maybe the Phillies !
the Cubs won’t be paying that seeing as they have Kris Bryant already at 3rd
Bryant could easily end up in LF to make room for a player like Machado.
Then where does Schwarber go? Behind the plate?
They might end up trading Schwarber.
Better idea is for manfred and the PC police, along with another bunch of useless criers out there which could name should just take a hike and find another country to live in.
I think I speak for everyone on this site when I say I absolutely love it when the discussion in the comments goes from baseball to society at large.
Or we could realize it’s kind of racist. No need to move to a new country for stating facts
I’m all for Native American mascots and redskin is fine with me, but wahoo just sounds wrong. Come up with something better.
The group offended literally have no country to go to. We took it from them.
Johnsilver: how about you take your crusty behind to another country. This isn’t even YOUR country, you immigrant.
I second that. And I have the leaky dingy he can row himself home with too.
Ask people who don’t agree with your opinion to leave “your” country if they don’t like it? Somehow that strikes me as rather un-American compared to the ideals that this country is supposedly founded on. I’d rather be called PC than come across as close-minded and fearful of those different than me.
Dookie Howser, MD
We speak English in “merica, learn to use it, Silver!
“Find another country to live in?” Please, give me a break. I could care less about the logo, one way or the other. But when someone tells me that it’s their way or (literally) the highway, I suggest they go back and try reading the Constitution and the Federalist Papers. You won’t find a lot of support for the idea that either thoughts or words should be suppressed.
Whether you’re offended or not, accepting that others are offended and having a discussion is worth a lot more than telling everyone who disagrees with you to leave the country.
You seem over sensitive about the people you’re calling over sensitive.
Just Another Fan
The backlash of people who find people who bring up equality to be annoying to the point where they are saying treasonous things that go against what America is about is one of the real head-scratchers of 2016.
Yes, we get it, equality is annoying to white men, it isn’t to the rest of America. White men make up roughly 31% of the population give or take, so YOU being a white man who’s “fed up” with people fighting for equality, are the ones who should be supporting it, as you aren’t even the majority anymore and things could easily flip against you…if you weren’t being such jerks all the time.
So every white man is annoyed by equality? You fall into he same trap as all the white men by applying those things to an entire population. Focus on where the real problem is, which is the distribution of wealth. There’s discrimination within each race based on wealth.
Nah you move. The Native Americans were here first. You and your people are the illegal immigrants
It’d be nice if they changed their name, but at the very least get rid of chief wahoo
I’d be fine with making it a proud Indian.
Just Another Fan
Would you be fine making it a proud white man or proud black man?
Nothing is lost if we leave race out of sporting mascots, nothing.
I’d be fine if the white conquerors of this land would try to find team names from their own culture (snort–what culture?) and stop trying to mimic, subvert or ridicule the culture of others, especially those that they took advantage of and murdered over the history of this country.
Chief Wahoo has slowly been phased out for years now. It’s just another nonstory the media got ahold of. Hopefully this will lead to a name change though. I’m all for changing back to the Cleveland Spiders, not that we have that many scary spiders in Cleveland.
There’s nothing wrong with Indians. That’s like saying Minnesota shouldn’t be the Vikings, but wahoo isn’t appropriate.
The Vikings is a totally different scenario, that’s not a good comparison
Got to agree. Not a lot of Vikings here to complain.
Won’t the spiders be offended
want too know what’s going to happen with all this…. nothing at all, they will be the Indian’s forever just like the Redskins
What is wrong with wahoo?
Yeah, call them the Generics. That is so PC. Now everyone can go screw their over sensitive selfs. We live in an over sensitive and over reactionary society!
Just Another Fan
If you are white you simply cant say this. And if you arent then you have been programmed to worship white people since day 1.
Sounds like you have quite the hate on for white people. Racist much?
Just Another Fan
You seem to not understand the difference between calling out and understanding the imbalance of racially and class-driven power in American society, and the concept of hate. It’s pretty common amongst trolls (who know better) and the ignorant (who dont) – so which are you?
Just speaking from my point of view… these names have been around along time, and are proud names, there is a difference people, and turning it into something racially motivated or perceived that way is just small minded…anouther team also know as wahoo’s is UVA, and they are proud of it and it’s along the same lines as kneeling for the national anthem, just more BS that the media people are just rousing up people. It’s just a cheap way of grabbing attention, you know like tatts or ear rings… look at me… I need attention… grow up people!
The MLB should be focusing on getting Oakland to change its name. As a fatguy the term Athletics is a trigger word forcing me to retreat to my safespace where everything is puppies, unicorns and rainbows without anything upsetting to me in any way shape or form. I would continue my rant but I have to climb out of my moms basement to get more cheetos before I find other things that morally outrage me.
Dookie Howser, MD
It sounds like you already found something that morally outrages you. Your analogy doesn’t even work. If Oakland was called the Fatties and their mascot was Al Roker circa 1998, then you could start to feel upset.
if read abit closer you will notice that it wasn’t an analogy. I said the term Athletics was a trigger word – athletics= gym class= torture for fat kids = bad memories=being upset. And being upset because the team chose that particular name causes moral outrage ( at least I think thats how it is supposed to work not sure as I am winging it – the post was meant as sarcasm and not my true way of thinking)
Just Another Fan
sarcasm doesnt work on the internet
Even if what you said worked, is calling someone fat racist?
i believe nowadays its called body shaming and while not racist it is supposedly just as harmful. Worlds a different place with all the new ultra pc types running around..
Its insensitive, and its subjective.
Chief Wahoo is offensive but Braves fans, Florida State fans, etc. chanting at every game is OK? How is that?? Why not make Chicago change their name because I am sure that real cubs were offended by their play the last how many years but their feelings don’t matter.
The logo was originally meant as a compliment to the Indians as strong and powerful. A symbol of describing their organization. I for one am part Indian blood through my ancestors. I consider the Indian logos just as they were meant—-A compliment to my ancestors!!! Leave it as it is. The majority of us, with Indian ancestry, feel the same way. People are panicking over the political correctness of a loud vocal few!!!!! I say, thank you to the Cleveland Indians for retaining the Indian logo—-From the silent MAJORITY!!!!
Isn’t is great that someone (just another fan) who may not even share your ancestry or racial background can tell you that your offended, or should be? Like you said, the few make themselves look bigger and do a lot of talking without doing much actionable to better lives.
The problem with Desmond is that his second half looked a lot like his 2015 in Washington. And with Gomez, his 2015 and most of 2016 were mediocre/poor. Both are in their early 30’s. They may have “eye-popping toolsets” but an extended deal means a lot of risk.
Since you’re bringing up what Manfred talked about, I’m not sure if you guys saw ESPN’s Jim Bowden’s tweet yesterday which is something I think most if not all of us really hope is True
It has a link to ESPN that says this:
“In our interview with Rob Manfred I got the strong impression that baseball is in talks with the Union to eliminate the connections with the All Star Game and home field advantage for the World Series.”
Note – Strange how I can’t see it anywhere on his page, However if you search for it in Twitter’s search bar, i.e “Jim Bowden, Manfred”, you should see the tweet
Yes, I saw that. It isn’t a part of our core coverage, though I’m sure we’ll touch upon it at some point. Thing is, that was Bowden stating his impression, whereas what we used here came from direct quotes.
As a kid growing up, I thought the Indian logo was the best in the majors. I had several Indians hats growing up, even while being an avid Braves fan.
ITT: sad, fragile men upset that they soon won’t be able to enjoy the racist caricature of the people they’ve kept down for centuries.
But yeah, keep going on about the PC culture. Clearly, this is all about you, even though it totally isn’t.
Just Another Fan
ding ding ding we have a winner
This isn’t about the offended people, its about white people trying to not lose grasp on anything that keeps the power (im)balance in their favor. It’s entirely about -them-.
You are waste of oxygen loser..
He didn’t say anything wrong…
I don’t enjoy offending others, but the PC crowd is getting way out of hand.
The Ghost of Bobby Bonilla
Hey, as someone of 50% Irish descent, I find Notre Dame’s logo offensive. It depicts us all as drunk leprechans all ready to throw down at the drop of a hat.
The Cleveland Browns name offends me too as someone of 50% African American descent and brownish pigment. CHANGE IT!
Or not – why don’t we stop giving in to these stupid Social Justice Warriors and just enjoy sports as a pasttime. Not everything needs to trigger offenses in everyone. The U.S. Supreme Court agrees with that view unanimously by the way (U.S. versus Larry Flynt – the Court ruled that offensiveness is the easiest thing to claim, but impossible to refute, so it cannot be used as a way to quell free speech).
I hope Dolan tells the Commish in very clear terms to go shove it.
This guy gets it..
Free speech has absolutely nothing to do with this. It’s an argument over what should be done, not whether or not to pass a law mandating what must be done.
instead of making teams change their logos, lets just remove all the liberals. problem solved
Just Another Fan
Better: remove all Cardinals fans
That should be done anyway, especially after they hacked the Astros
As a white man of Irish descent I have no issues with Notre Dame’s Fighting Irish logo. It’s a caricature. It’s for a sports team. It doesn’t mean that Notre Dame thinks all Irish people fight constantly. Even if the mascot were a drunk leprechaun I would not care.
I don’t see a big difference between this type of mascot and Chief Wahoo. I’ve always liked the cartoon mascots. Chief Wahoo is great! He’s fun. Same goes for the Orioles cartoon bird. I’m so happy they brought that back.
I’m so tired of these ultra PC wussies that don’t even watch sports claim everything is offensive. You know what I find offensive? Your need to force your opinion and beliefs on everyone else. You are the very vocal minority. Most people don’t care, and find Chief Wahoo offensive.
That’s a ridiculous comparison — remind me, are there any Native Americans involved in running or playing for the Indians?
Regardless, your Irish heritage gives you no standing to dismiss the feelings or the experiences with prejudice of others.
“Ultra PC wussies that don’t even watch sports”? Okay bro. You watch sports, so you are, what, not a “wussy”? It’s not about being PC, it’s trying to imagine what it might be like to stand in someone else’s shoes. Of course most people don’t find Chief Wahoo offensive; it’s a caricature of a small minority group. And it’s not forcing views on another, it’s raising awareness for how a word, or symbol, or whatever can have greater negative impact than many may realize — and then suggesting that we all consider whether the value of continuing to use that (Chief Wahoo logo? gone? the humanity!) outweighs the harm and, yes, even just the sense of harm.
Know what I’m tired of? Haughty white guys who can’t fathom why people find them offensive.
What should be done is play ball! Once the World Series is over all the PC heros can move on to the next ridiculous cause..How is a freakin chief wahoo mascot negatively affecting anyone’s lives, or anyones perception of native Americans? The whole thing is ridiculous
This seems to have a pretty good breakdown of the problem and how it does have real impact: http://www.bluecorncomics.com/wahoo.htm
And I’d like to pose you a question, in the spirit of your own: How is a freakin move to change a logo negatively affecting your life so much that you are this outraged?
It obviously wouldn’t affect my life one way or the other.. and if they change the name it won’t affect anyone’s else’s either! The Indians have had the mascot for over a half century..its history.. it means a lot to a lot of people that love that team.. If it offends you don’t watch the games or give your hard earned money to the team.. hell, boycott baseball.. the Indians have plenty of fans who will still be there
And the link to bluecorncomics.com didn’t say anything to support your cause
The link is full of explanation of why Chief Wahoo is extremely offensive and how it perpetuates stereotypes and prejudices that have contributed to the degradation of an entire people.
But whatever, you’re right, we should give more weight to the fact that some of the team’s fans are attached to the logo and would feel some fleeting sadness at seeing it removed.
Ok so let’s change it bc a few people, most of whom aren’t even Native American, are upset by it.. The Indians didn’t intend for it to be discriminatory to native Americans.. come on man
I don’t hear anyone accusing the team of trying to be offensive, now or in the past. That’s a strawman.
Your’e right.. I’m a believer now, lets change it! Why stop there though? Let’s not rest until there isn’t one single American offended by anything..
This is not a real argument. You could say this to everything. What if I said to you, “oh I guess you can use any racist symbol or phrase you want now, right?”
Question is, in determining one’s own opinion of right and wrong: in the case at hand, does harm outweigh benefit? There are many ways to approach such a question. It’s often worth considering other hypothetical or actual scenarios. But throwing out labels (“PC police”) and using argumentative tricks (strawman, etc) isn’t productive.
I never said either of those things..
He also didn’t say anything right..
*don’t find Chief Wahoo offensive.
The Washington Bullets changed their name to the Wizards because the city didn’t want to be associated with crime. Didn’t turn out so well. We have 320 mil. People in this country, the odds are someone is always going to be offended at something.
The Bullets/Wizards name change was driven by the owner, not the city.
Regardless, I don’t remotely understand what you think this proves.
Your source is a blog?
Source? Why would I need a source? It includes pertinent discussion of the topic. I’m not appealing to authority.
You provided a link. You used said link to suggest the owner of the bullets wanted the name change. The link doesn’t provide proof, it is an assumption.
Also, all of y’all clamoring for them to change it aren’t even native Americans! They just did a recent study and 90% of native Americans didn’t find the mascot offensive and didn’t see a need for them to change.. if the people that are supposedly offended aren’t really even offended, what’s the point of this discussion? So PC liberals can push their PC agenda on everyone…
Ya, cause it’s blatantly racist. Its hell of a lot better being pc, rather than racist
No it’s not…
Easily that is..
If you think that, you’re a terrible person
I’m so sick of pc whiners…..
They should be crying about athletes and ppl that decide to take a knee during the national anthem…. . Not about a fictional character named chief Wahoo…..
Alert, alert, PC police! This guy doesn’t think it’s okay to kneel during the national anthem. I mean who cares? Who does that hurt? Why do you have such a thin veneer? Get over it dude.
Is that okay? Or would you prefer that I at least respect your honestly-held beliefs, even if I disagree with you?
Lol go Jeff
Jeff….. The national anthem does not bother me…. But it’s worse than the Indians mascot chief Wahoo…. Something for the pc babies to mull over
Neither bothers me, in that I’m not personally offended. But I see how the logo would be extraordinarily offensive, and so it bothers me that there’s a major business/social institution that continues to use it in this day and age. Nothing to do with being PC, for me.
Really, it’s not similar at all to a protest directed vaguely against the social/legal institutions of the world’s leading superpower. People are welcome to feel offended by the kneeling, but that’s an intentional political statement directed against power, not a flippant commercial use that harms a historically suppressed minority. What’s ironic is how many people have reacted to the protests with such thin skin.
If you want to push back on a given complaint, fine. But you can’t just dismiss it as “PC babies” whining. That’s a meaningless thing to say — doesn’t go to the merits of this or any other situation.
Frankly, I find it offensive : )
The Orioles have very little talent coming through the farm system, and they place no emphasis on scouting or player development.
Why would they consider trading players that they have no hope or interest in resigning for a f load of quality prospects?
Are you serious didn’t there double a team the baysox win the championship in 2014
I wore my chief Wahoo hat out tonight with pride!!!!!!!!! Go Indians! Go tribe!!! . Get used to it!
I wore my chief Wahoo hat out tonight with pride!!!!!!!!! Go Indians! Go tribe!!!
Some people nowadays just make a point of being offended because they think they’re supposed to be. The Notre Dame mascot is much more offensive and stereotypical, the only thing missing is a bottle of alcohol, yet no one is offended by that. Until, of course, a group of Irish people say it’s offensive and then everyone will say, “Hey, yeah, that is offensive. I’m offended by that! I’m offended for you!” By the way, I have Cherokee Indian in me. I don’t find a harmless cartoon Indian offensive at all. He’s not shooting a bow and arrow, he’s not riding a horse, he’s not in a teepee, he’s not having a pow-wow, he’s not drunk or any other stereotypical things you might think of. In fact, the only time you see his whole body, he’s about to swing a bat. Again, some people are just not happy unless they’re bothering themselves about something.