Here’s the latest notes column from Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe, with a particular focus on how the Red Sox will be targeting DH, the bullpen and the rotation as their three main areas of need this offseason…
- Acquiring Chris Sale would be a major rotation upgrade for the Red Sox, and since they had discussions with the White Sox about the star southpaw this summer, talks could be revisited in the offseason. Cafardo figures Boston would have to give up Jackie Bradley Jr. (who the White Sox have long liked) and at least one of top prospects Yoan Moncada or Rafael Devers to land Sale; Chicago could also ask for Eduardo Rodriguez as part of the trade package. It would be a heavy price to pay, though the White Sox are obviously going to shoot for the moon if they explore dealing their ace, who is both one of the game’s best pitchers and one of its best bargains thanks to his team-friendly contract. The Red Sox would have Andrew Benintendi take over for Bradley in center field, while left field would presumably be handled by some combination of Chris Young, Brock Holt, Blake Swihart. If not dealt, Moncada would also be in the mix for both 2017 and as a long-term answer.
- Beyond those three big areas, catcher is also something of a question mark for the Red Sox. Boston seems to be looking at a tandem of Sandy Leon and Christian Vazquez behind the plate in 2017, which would indicate an $800K buyout of Ryan Hanigan’s $3.75MM club option for the coming season. Leon had a huge breakout at the plate but rather came back to earth over the last six weeks of the season, while Vazquez has yet to show any ability to hit Major League pitching.
- There’s still a chance the Red Sox could reunite with Jonathan Papelbon, as Cafardo figures the team will again check in with the veteran reliever. Papelbon drew interest from several teams (including Boston) after being released by the Nationals last summer, though he didn’t sign anywhere. There hasn’t been much Papelbon news in the last several weeks, so it’s unknown what the former closer’s plans are for 2017.
- In his sole year as Red Sox manager, Bobby Valentine wanted to use both Andrew Miller and Daniel Bard out of the bullpen. Miller was turning to relief pitching after failing to catch on as a starter, and he went to become one of the game’s best relievers. Bard was already a bullpen star for the Sox, though both he and the front office wanted to transition to starting pitching. That move proved disastrous for Bard, as he developed severe control problems that have curtailed his career. He last pitched in the bigs in 2013 and has since bounced around the minors with four different organizations.
- Marlins management will soon meet with club owner Jeffrey Loria to decide on the team’s offseason plans, which were thrown into disarray in the wake of Jose Fernandez’s tragic death. Miami was in need of pitching even with Fernandez in the fold, and this winter’s very thin pitching market could leave the team unable to augment its impressive lineup. Cafardo notes that rumors of the Marlins reloading the farm system by trading Giancarlo Stanton have swirled for years, though with Fernandez gone, Stanton may have become even more of a cornerstone piece for the club.
Oh yeah, Papelbon is still a free agent, forgot about him for a while there
Whatever the white sox do will be a mistake! With Williams in charge, all areas in that organization are failures.
A bit silly to suggest Bard moving to starting ruined his career. He had developed control issues the year before while still in the bullpen.
He had control issues all the way through the minors, but was effective enough to make it a small issue. They gave in to Bard (bad decision anytime a player wins the “argument”) and Daniel was just not s starter. Please refer to the Joe Kelly manual if needed. Kelly can be a top-notch 7th/8th inning bullpen guy, but start him and it’s an automatic “L”.
I watched a few Boston games last season, in one of the games the broadcasters were seriously talking about Leon being one of the best catchers in Major League Baseball and started calling him the king. Maybe I’m looking at the wrong stats but I am pretty sure he’s not the best catcher in Major League Baseball.
I watch a lot of their games also and can’t say that they would have gone that far. Maybe said he was the best during that torrid 50G streak of his, but not one of the best in the game.
I see no problem going forward with Leon and C-Vaz with Swihart as a combo C-OF waiting his turn either. Having 2 catchers in leon and C-Vaz who are top notch run game controlling specialists that know how to play defense at a GG level is way more important on an otherwise offensive team than one who can hit a little and play crappy defense (salty) that they had a few years back. I’d take this combo any day and hope that Leon hits a fraction of what he did in 2016 going forward. Forget Hannigan, while he’s got use on also ran team’s in dire need (hello Tampa) there is no need, nor reason to use that 3.7m in salary in Boston at this point.
I remember that it was right after he hit a homerun and I think his average might have been around .500. I agree with the rest tho, I think that if Leon could bat anywhere around .250 he would be a very good option going forward.
Even if he comes back to earth and Vazquez still doesn’t hit, how big of an issue is that? The best hitting catchers are barely above league average, unless you’re buster posey or 2016 Wilson Ramos. Boston still has a good lineup even if they have a below average bat at catcher
Boston BS
Sale for Giancarlo who says no?
White Sox
I wish I could thumbs up this comment.
Sale for one player will not cut it. The White Sox fan base would revolt and storm the Sox front offices. Sale is likely only going for about 2-3 ready MLB players/top prospects, and a couple of potential diamonds in the rough type players.
Ok, chill, it was just a hypothetical!
Both
Owner Jerry Reinsdorf.
Giancarlo Stanton’s $300+ million contract is about 1/3 the value of the White Sox franchise which is about $1.05 billion per Forbes. Aside from his enormous deal, Stanton hasn’t even been able to stay healthy over the past two seasons. In addition, the White Sox already have a vastly cheaper and controllable RF (through 2021) in Adam Eaton who’s 6.2 WAR last season was just shy of Stanton’s career best mark of 6.5 in 2014, a metric the latter hasn’t come close to matching before or since.
Value wise:
Adam Eaton > Giancarlo Stanton
Chris Sale > Giancarlo Stanton
Chris Sale + Adam Eaton >> Giancarlo Stanton
If there’s one thing that Chairman Reinsdorf has demonstrated as owner of the White Sox, it is he is all about the VALUE factor!
I’d do Bradley Jr, E-Rod, Devers, and a lesser prospect or two in a heartbeat for Sale.
Same, as long as they sign another good offesnive player to replace him in the short term. Already lost Papis bat.
JBJ, Moncada, Devers, Rodriguez for Sale and Melky.
Maybe if Sale had 3 or 4 years left on his contract. Otherwise, no.
He does have 3 yrs of control left at 12.5m.
Thought he had two. Thanks for the correction.
Yeah he does have that so…..
White Sox wouldn’t do that deal. I think it takes JBJ, Moncada, E. Rod, Kopech and another player to get Sale.
No way the Sox do that it’s ridiculous overpay.
I don’t see the White Sox being overly interested in Devers unless he’s the third or fourth piece to a deal. He’s at least a couple years away from the majors – unlike Moncada or Benintendi. That’s not the kind of deal they’re looking for. If he’s included with players like JBJ and Moncada/Benintendi, then I could definitely see the interest though.
I am probably in the minority, but I’m guessing teams will want Quintana more than Sale. Quintana is not as flashy in terms of his K’s, but he is maddeningly consistent and not much phases him, whereas Sale throws hissy fits now and again and appears to have meltdowns on the mound. Now, most of that may have been a result of having ineffectual management for the past five seasons, and maybe next season we will see a Sale that does not whine about missing their 12 yr old ‘leader’ in the clubhouse and what jerseys that the players have to wear on his starting days.
In any case the White Sox should not just trade both starters (Sale and Quintana).. Trade one first this off season (if the deal is phenomenal) and if the team is in the gutter by the ’17 AS break (and Rodon looks as good as he did in his last handful of starts) start exploring trading the other.
you’re not alone. I’d prefer Quintana too. he’s been just as reliable as Sale without the headcase.
If the White Sox wanted JBJ, ERod, Devers, and a couple other throw in minor leaguers, I’d do that in a heart beat.
The White Sox are going to want the same package for Sale as they will Quintana. It will be the exact same thing. It won’t be two throw ins. They will want one of Benintendi or Moncada for Quintana just like they do Sale.
I don’t recall the original desire from them but they aren’t gonna get jbj, Erod, benentendi, and moncada or devers for Quintana or Sale. And I know it would be the same offer for either I was just saying I’d prefer Quintana out of the two.
Sale only has a few years left on his contract so only a true contender like the Sox would be interested. Dombrowski likes to strike quick in the off season so I could see a deal happening early in the winter. JBJ, Moncada, Kopech, and Groome would be my quess.
Swap out Kopech for E-Rod and I see Chicago jumping all over that.
Honestly I see the White Sox wanting 5 players for Sale, They’d probably want those 4 and Devers in a deal for Sale.
Not me, Kopech is the main man in the deal along with Moncata., both are under control with a lot of upside.
You guys are obviously White Sox fans. The Red Sox are not going to trade that much let’s be serious a real deal would be a JBJ and Erod plus a prospect and that would be a deal. The ridiculous five for one is not gonna happen. They can reach for all they want but Sale will be a White Sox next year if it really is gonna take the crazy proposals I have seen on this site.
I’m going on everything that’s been reported. And no way is JBJ, ERod and a lesser prospect going to get it done. I’ve talked to a bunch of White Sox writers, a few Boston writers and some national guys and this is what I’ve gathered.
The White Sox want JBJ, one of Moncada/Benintendi (RS won’t do AB), ERod, Kopech and probably another guy for Sale and probably Quintana.
I’m quite sure the White Sox want that and I’m quite sure if they stick to those demands it does not get done.
Sale has 3 years left on his very team friendly deal. I saw reports of 25+ teams called the White Sox about Sale at the deadline, they will all call or talk to Hahn at the Owner’s Meetings and the Winter Meetings.
These deals are just ridiculous the Red Sox aren’t going to trade that much for anyone. JBJ alone has around the same war as Sale its silly to think they will trade all of that for Sale not going to happen I think if there is a trade it will be much less then what the White Sox fans think and it they stick to their guns of a ridiculous overpay then Sale will be a White Sox next year.
I can all but guarantee that if Sale is traded, it won’t be for much less than what White Sox fans think. Based on his ability, track record, and EXTREMELY team friendly contract, he will be worth a fortune on the trade market, and just about every team in the league will be trying to get in on the deal. All that being said, they absolutely do NOT NEED to trade Sale if they don’t get an offer they like. Holding onto him for another couple years is a SIGNIFICANTLY better move than trading him for a mediocre package. It’ll take a ridiculous overpay.
I totally agree which is why he won’t be a Red Sox because it will take a stupid overpay to get him and I just don’t see DD being stupid.
As a sox fan i really don’t wanna give up JBJ moncada Kopech and E Rod for an overrated pitcher that’s real homer prone. They need to upgrade the bullpen the most
What the hell are you talking about, Sale is a top 5 pitcher in the game. This might be the dumbest comment I’ve seen a Red Sox fan make. And I’ve see A LOT of really stupid comments.
Kind of like your silly trade proposal never gonna happen.
It’s what I’ve been told by people who actually have sources. I’m not just throwing proposals out there.
You can think what you want, but it’s going to take a lot more than you seem comfortable with to get either Sale or Quintana.
Look I’m not saying that the White Sox aren’t asking for the moon I’m just saying the Red Sox aren’t going to pay that and ultimately unless he White Sox get more realistic then Sale stays with the White Sox. It is probably what is going to happen. I’m just saying that my proposal is probably fair on both sides but since the White Sox want to be blown away well then it is not getting done.
Simply out of your minds. It will take four top prospects to get sale or Quintana. if they don’t get them they’ll just hold them and wait for the right moment when somebody needs a starter badly. They are in the driver seat, they don’t have to trade at all.
Nick Cafardo is never gonna come around to the fact that Bobby Valentine was a lousy manager. Career losing record and never took a team into first place. But still Nick’s his chief apologist.
OK Nick… yeah… that’s where BobbyV hit an iceberg in 2012: Sox didn’t listen on Bard and Miller. Or could it be problems like when Bobby set the lineup without knowing the pitcher was LH’d or RH’d. Cafardo and Valentine are cut from the same cloth: Stick around long enough and some idiots might believe you know what you’re talking about.
As far as Sale is concerned: Why trade big stock for a frontline pitcher who has been a malcontent? Red Sox have Price Porcello and Wright. Trade chips for backend pitching and get a pitching coach the staff actually responds to.
Red Sox won’t win with the starting pitching they have now, they need Sale pronto!
Why would a contending team pick up Papelbon? His performance appeared to be declining with his velocity, and he doesn’t seem to want to pitch in middle relief. And he’d be unlikely to get an offer anywhere near what he was being paid. I could see a fringier team taking a shot at him, hoping he catches fire and can be a good trading chip.
As a White Sox fan who has watched the team wallow in sub-medicocrity, I actually welcome a full rebuild, but it would have to be done correctly. If I’m trading Sale, I might as well throw in Q. With that, I’d expect/demand the top 5 Red Sox prospects (maybe the top 7 for other organization), and if that doesn’t work, the top 8 of 10. If the White Sox actually did that and shed some other above average pieces (Melky, Frazier, Robinson) for a decent prospect or two, I’d be the first in line to buy season tickets next year. I understand it would be a long 2-3 years, but with the haul of top talent coming back in those deals (or at least I can dream that the White Sox could get that), they’d be set up for prolonged dominance. Might as well wait a few years to contend since it looks like the Indians will be atop the division for a few years, and Detroit is aging. Whether or not there’s a Sale and/or Q blockbuster in the next few months, I expect Rick to be very busy fielding trade offers and executing deals that set the White Sox up long term with talent.
No you would never do Sale and Quintana together in a deal. You are lessening their value. You deal them separately. Here are the teams in my opinion that could swing a deal for either guy.
Red Sox, Astros, Cubs, Rangers, Dodgers, Pirates, Yankees, Braves
You’re making assumptions. The Red Sox 6-10 prospects are better than some teams’ 1-5, so if it’s the right deal, you do it.
The Red Sox 6-10 prospects are nowhere near better than the 1-5’s on any of the teams he listed. All of those teams are stacked with young talent, just like the Red Sox. Personally, the Astros would be the #1 team on my list, followed closely by the Red Sox.
And wsox05 is 100% correct. Trading Sale and Quintana in the same deal would be a horrible move.
As a Sox fan, White Sox that is, I’m concerned that the usual brain trust or mush trust (KW & Hahn) will roll out the same hot garbage they have over the past 7yrs. They’ll try & sign Yoenis or Wieters or some over the hill past his prime FA & sell the fan base we’re going for it! Yawn & smhh as the millennials would say. Now I’m in the camp for a youth movement/rebuild, it’s time & I think most fans will accept this direction. You’ve let Ventura walk off into the sunset & replaced him w/a Good baseball man. I like Renteria he got a raw deal w/the team on the northside, no one blames them for moving on Maddon. So now you have a coach that’s worked w/young players in the past(Cubs & Padres) & is Latino which is important in today’s game to communicate. As many have stated above you open the garage door throw the for sale sign out front & see who drives by. I like that Kenny Hahn didn’t sell at the trade deadline, let the cars lineup outside & let every team have a look at the goods. Now here’s what’s on the table to buy: Sale, JQuintana, Frasier, Melky, Lawrie, J. Abreau & Eaton. So for better or worse half your lineup & rotation. Eatons not going anywhere unless you drink his kool-aid & blow the Sox doors off w/a MLB starter & & top prospect w/a throw in low class player. Frasier & Melky can be had for the right deal of prospects, seeing as the FA market is fairly weak these two provide a valuable asset: Offense. Frasier plays a solid 3rd & can rotate him at 1b when needed. Melky is a below avg OF & would be better used as a DH, but still makes consistent contact & both are good clubhouse guys. Lawrie is a reclamation project of sorts, ton of talent wrapped in a red bull can, I’ll take some low level pitching prospects. Here’s where it gets interesting: Sale & Quintana. You trade them if your demands are met, you don’t meet the asking price thanks for stopping by. As its was mentioned the Sox don’t have to trade either of them. Outside of their numbers & abilities their contracts are two of the best bargains in MLB (along w/Eatons). So what’s the cost? MLB starting talent & 3 of your top prospects. So you Red Sox fan can debate who stays or goes, but it’s going to cost JBJ, Moncada, Kopech & goes from there… I’d expect the Dodgers, Astros & of course the evil empire Yankees to dip their finger into the conversations. Should be an interesting off season for the both Sox teams especially if the Northside wins it all. Go young & let the fans grow w/the team, enough of going for it Horse Shit!
Cheers!
I wonder if the Jays might pass on Edwin and Bautista, offer them both competitive offers to nab some prospects, and pursue Stanton in the offseason? Saying that though, I doubt they have the prospects to do it… It would certainly make losing our two primary mashers a little easier to swallow though.
Lol Stanton to the Jays WILL NEVER HAPPEN.
I think the fact that they lost one of their superstars already would prevent them from moving Stanton under any circumstances….if I was an opposing team I would want to see him healthy for a full year before making that type of investment