The Cardinals intend to stretch out former closer Trevor Rosenthal as a starter, as Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports. While it seems he’ll have at least some chance of earning a rotation spot, it may be that a more flexible relief role could be the end result of the experiment.
Rosenthal has long been seen as a candidate to attempt a return to starting, but it has never really been pursued since he held such a critical role in the Cards’ pen. But skyrocketing walk rates and some injuries pushed Rosenthal out of the ninth inning last year, and Seung Hwan Oh has now firmly taken the reins as the closer. Still, St. Louis has a lot riding on Rosenthal, who MLBTR projects to earn $6.3MM in arbitration.
“It terms of role we’re going to see how things go, but we’re open to anything,” GM John Mozeliak says of Rosenthal. “It was something that he has had a desire to do. As we were looking at all the different moving pieces it doesn’t hurt to have an extra arm, and in the past we’ve felt like an extra arm would help. As you start to think about bullpen structure and multiple innings it makes sense to have people prepared to do more than just a one-inning stint.”
Rosenthal certainly has the high-octane stuff to possibly feature in the kind of flexible, sometimes multi-inning role in which Andrew Miller flourished for the Indians. Michael Wacha, too, could evolve into that kind of weapon for the Cards, Goold notes, even if the team hopes he’ll be prepared to take a full starter’s load in 2017. With at least five other viable rotation candidates, though, perhaps a modified role could be a way to receive value from Wacha while allowing him to build his strength and return to his prior form.
It’s notable, too, that the Cards have yet another theoretical option for a multi-inning role that’s more than just long relief. Jaime Garcia had his share of struggles last year, as did Wacha, but has produced top-tier results when healthy in the recent past. Of course, his balky shoulder may make flexible relief usage a dicey proposition. Garcia could still be flipped in a trade, but the team already exercised his option and seems currently slated to utilize him in some kind of relief capacity (assuming, at least, that Lance Lynn returns healthy next spring).
Interesting
I don’t see this going well.
Remember the battle for the 5th starters position between Martinez and Rosenthal a couple of years ago?? Actually, Rosenthal had a better Spring Training starting pitching statically than Martinez did However, the Cardinals did not have another closer they could fall back on. This could be a very good move in giving Rosenthal the opportunity to start in Spring Training. He may be the diamond in the rough that Martinez has become!!!!
Don’t know if I’d call Martinez a diamond in the rough. He was reasonably touted, but either way I think Rosenthal has the potential to rebound and have a successful pitching career in whichever role he ends up with. I don’t think he possesses all of the tools to develop into the possible Ace like Carlos does and is on his way to becoming, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he became something like a 3.90-4.00 ERA #4 with decent strikeout numbers
You mean between Martinez and Joe Kelly? I don’t recall Rosenthal ever battling for the 5th starter role.
That was between C-Mary and Joe Kelly.
So they will have Wainwright, Martinez, Lynn, Reyes, Wacha, Leake, Garcia, and Rosenthal in the rotation..
8 Man rotation… Interesting.
I assume Wacha and Garcia are being shopped heavily.
Garcia, yes. Wacha, not yet. I’m sure they are going to try and develop him into some type of Andrew Miller pitcher (he has the stuff to do it). Hopefully it works out. I don’t think Wacha’s body can handle the rigors of the rotation. This might be the better move.
Oh has now become super valuable I can see him as one of the top closers in the game (maybe top 6 or 7 or so)
This is a bad idea. He has only pitched 277 innings in 5 years. Even if he goes 150 innings, that’s double the normal work load and the stress on an arm that is not accustomed to that can jeopardize his career. An occasional spot start is one thing but joining the rotation is far more taxing. Plus if he can’t throw strikes late in a game, having him become a starter ain’t gonna fix it. He may need to examine his mechanics more closely.
Its a possibility that they could showcase him for the first half of the season in hopes that he does well and then use him as trade bait since they have so much depth in SP and he will be a FA soon.
If nothing else. Saying this may increase his value in a trade to a team interested in him as a possible starter and can give it two years? I dunno. He’ll be a free agent soon enough. I don’t see a starting role anytime soon. I can see a middle relief 2 inning at a time role for him at this point.
He needs to use his change up more. It’s a filthy compliment to his fastball, but he hardly ever uses it!
He’ll need to develop a third pitch or he’ll just become another Wacha. Fastball-change up works great…until one night you don’t have a feel for your changeup, and the opposing team figures that out real quick! Good luck Lilliquist.
Rosenthal has never had particularly good control so I find this move puzzling. That bad control was with him throwing 1+ innings and now they want 5+? Miller had terrible control as a starter and got it under control when he transitioned into a reliever.
Rosie won’t be in the rotation this year. However I love the idea of stretching him out to 2-3 inning capability and making him the fixer a la Miller. Wonder if matheny would be that progressive minded to use him in that way though. Siegrist is 8th inning guy, Oh the closer. Sign Brett Cecil, wacha as a long man, fill in holes with Broxton, tuivailalla, Gonzales, and maybe another young arm such as littrell or something. That’s a pretty nice bullpen. Then as season goes on spot start, wacha, Gonzales, Rosie to relieve innings from starters.
Too many moving parts to that idea. That what got them in trouble with the defense last year. No one had a true position. Matheny just moved them all around and they became uncomfortable and unproductive from a defensive standpoint.
Moving parts with defensive positions-bad idea. Moving parts with a bullpen- tremendous idea. It’s not the same. It’s what worked for Indians, royals and other successful teams. One of my knocks on matheny is he is way too formulamatic and isn’t flexible enough. He goes starter 6-7, siegrist 8, oh 9. If starters in trouble in 4th or 5th, pull him and bring Rosie in. Having him available for 2-3 innings at times would be great. Then look at playoff potential. Look how it worked for Indians with Miller. That’s the wave of the future, not just having a hard line closer that only pitches the ninth in save situations.
As a Royals fan, the Royals are a bad example for your argument. Yost was as systematic as Matheny. Herrera 7th, Davis 8th, Holland 9th in 15 or Hoch 7th
Rosenthal has starter stuff. Waino and leake seem to be the biggest liabilities.
Not if the Cardinals can actually find help up the middle and allow their guys to have a set position. Leakes value is much higher when you have an infield like Cincinnati did.
Agreed. Not a question of if but when they move Diaz from SS. Maybe flip Diaz and Wong and see if that combo produces better defensive results?
Let the starting 5 be
Wainwright
Martinez
Leake
Lynn
Reyes
And let Wacha, Garcia, Rosey, Siegrist, Maness, Weaver, Bowman etc all go 2 innings and let the starters come out sooner (5-6 innings per start)
Nice – Rosenthal the fireman reliever.
Rosenthal was injured last year. That reflected in his poor pitching after two solid years previous. With Oh (final year) and Siegrist (healthy next year recovered from Mononucleosis) the bullpen will have the 8th and 9th covered. Siegrist just two years ago was just as good as Andrew Miller. Rosenthal with closing experience, will be a multi-inning relief tool. I could see him get shopped at the deadline if his value has increased again. I still wish Mo would pursue Melancon. We would easily have a Top 5 bullpen with 3 closers.
Daniel Bard, Joba Chamberlain, Neftali Feliz, and Alexi Ogando all think this is a bad idea.
And Braden Looper!
Although Adam Wainwright and Phil Hughes have had successful careers after getting started in the pen, it feels an awful lot like St. Louis is dreaming here. Either being desperate or cheap.
st louis should trade for brian dozier. weaver and wong might do it.