The Phillies have officially struck a deal to acquire righty Clay Buchholz from the Red Sox, as Jon Heyman of Fan Rag first reported (via Twitter). Second baseman Josh Tobias will be the piece going to Boston in the swap, in which Philadelphia will pick up all the remaining obligations to Buchholz, as Matt Gelb of the Philadelphia Inquirer was first to report (via Twitter). Philadelphia designated just-acquired third baseman Richie Shaffer for assignment to clear roster space.
Buchholz, 32, has seemed like a fairly likely trade candidate ever since Boston struck its deal to acquire Chris Sale. That acquisition left the team with a somewhat over-stuffed depth chart in its rotation, with the luxury tax line also representing a possible factor. The Sox had previously picked up Buchholz’s $13.5MM option for the 2017 season, making him an expensive depth piece. He is slated to hit free agency after the upcoming campaign.
[RELATED: Updated Phillies & Red Sox Depth Charts]
For the Phils, the move represents a clear continuation of the strategy put in place this winter (and reflects much the same approach as that employed a year ago). After starter Jeremy Hellickson took his qualifying offer to remain in Philadelphia, the club went on to deal for veteran infielder/outfielder Howie Kendrick and reliever Pat Neshek, each of whom had one season left on their original free-agent contracts. And the organization also added late-inning man Joaquin Benoit and infielder Andres Blanco on single-season, MLB arrangements while picking up minor-league free agents such as Daniel Nava, Sean Burnett, and Pedro Florimon. While building out the roster with solid veterans who don’t tie up the payroll beyond the 2017 campaign, Philadelphia also made a value bet on center fielder Odubel Herrera, who inked a five-year extension.
All told, the new additions add $57.7MM to the books for Philadelphia in the coming season. Given that much of the rest of the roster will earn at or near the MLB minimum, it’s hardly a massive outlay for an organization that routinely placed among the game’s biggest spenders before embarking upon a rebuilding path (and has only recently begun a lucrative new TV deal). Importantly, none of these acquisitions cost the Phillies much in the way of future value. They’ll allow the club to field a more competitive product, reduce the pressure on younger players in the system, and, potentially, cash in some of the new assets for future value — either by trade-deadline swaps or even future qualifying offers.
In Buchholz, the Phils have added an enigmatic starter who has at times been rather excellent and still comes with his share of upside. In 2015, he worked to a 3.26 ERA over 113 1/3 frames with a strong 8.5 K/9 against 1.8 BB/9, representing one of several seasons in which he looked like a quality number 2 or 3 starter. But he dealt with elbow issues in 2015 and wasn’t able to repeat in his latest campaign. Buchholz was bumped from the rotation at one point and ended 2016 with 139 1/3 frames of 4.78 ERA pitching to go with 6.0 K/9 and 3.6 BB/9. While he has often generated grounders on about half of the balls put in play against him, he dipped to 41.2% last year.
Despite the struggles, Buchholz did carry a typical 92.1 mph average on his fastball and a 9.5% swinging-strike rate that’s right at league average for a starter. He also ended the year on a good note, posting a 2.86 ERA across the last 44 innings he’ll throw in a Red Sox uniform (barring, at least a surprise reunion at some point down the line). As Tim Britton of the Providence Journal detailed at the time and Buchholz himself discussed with David Laurila of Fangraphs, there were adjustments that may help explain the turnaround and could add some confidence to the Phillies’ hopes. Buchholz wasn’t able to work in the zone as much as he had in 2015 (though that was something of an outlier year), and also couldn’t maintain the 5.9% HR/FB rate that helped drive his success in the prior season.
As MLBTR’s Steve Adams posited at the outset of the winter, pitchers such as Buchholz and then-Cardinals starter Jaime Garcia could have their options picked up before being dealt. While neither brought back major hauls in their respective trades, their respective teams were able to hold onto them as depth to enhance their flexibility entering the offseason, then pivot to a trade when it was determined that their services wouldn’t be needed.
Certainly, the Cards seem to have earned more for Garcia (who came with a $12MM salary) than the Sox got out of Buchholz’s final season. The trio of youngsters shipped from the Braves for Garcia all had placed among the Atlanta organization’s top thirty prospects (per MLB.com), while Tobias has never received that kind of recognition. The 24-year-old split last year between the Class A and High-A levels, hitting well (.304/.375/.444) for much of the year at the former and struggling (.254/.324/.357) in 146 plate appearances after his promotion.
Photo courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.
Oh god please no!
Never mind I don’t care about it since Tobias is going
And with that trade, Tobias is immediately ranked as a top 10 prospect in baseball by all media outlets.
So true
Thats not how that works. Everyone knows the Sox farm is really weak right now beside our top 3 prospects.
Hahaha, so true, because we all know that Boston’s prospects always prove to be overrated and never pan out. Oh wait…
God, this is such a tired myth, and your types are losers for perpetuating it.
@redsoxu571: Did you get your screen name from a movie about matthew mcconaughey and bon jovi hanging out together on a submarine?
It’s not a myth though, just because there is successes doesn’t mean there weren’t a lot of failures
Hey dookie: we don’t do much childish name calling on this site ..but when we do we like it funny. Next time keep it to yourself.
This is so true, only the Boston homers will deny it.
The Sox still have one of the most well stocked farm systems in baseball. It’s not full of 5-tool type players anymore but their depth is amazing.
I didn’t call anybody any names. I am just genuinely curious if a person exists that was so touched by the movie U-571 that they would use it as part of their screen name.
Starting with Ellsbury, Rizzo, Pedroia, Youkilis, Lester, Hanley Ramirez, Papelbon, Reddick, over the last decade, Boston has continuously drafted and produced or traded starting Major League talent through their minor league system. More pedestrian starting products like Jed Lowrie, Clay Buchholz, Jose Iglesias, Travis Shaw, Anibal Sanchez, Justin Masterson, and others have been key role players for contending teams along the way. This new crop of emerging talent, Mookie Betts, Andrew Benintendi, Xander Bogaerts, Jackie Bradley Jr, are continuing a long trend. The Red Sox scouting, drafting, and player development has been exceptional. I am excited to see what becomes of Yoan Moncada and the rest of the young talent they shipped out in the last calendar year to round off the major league roster. Boston is running a great ship.
Love it
JD, prospects are always hit and miss. For everyone.
Ew
4 lefties in the rotation now, jeez
Worked for the Dodgers
So what???
Boston does play half its games in a park with a short but tall left field wall.. Righties might be of some benefit, don’t ya think?
Probably not. Stephen Wright and Porcello RHP
3
Sale, Price, Pomeranz, Rodriguez. I count 4.
Pomeranz will go to the pen!!!Sale-Porcello-Price-Wright and ERod rotation!!!!
If pomeranz is going to the pen then the padres fleeced the red sox
Yes, they did. ….that’s why their GM was suspended for 30 days because they hid the prior medical condition (elbow..?) with Pomeranz. He will most likely be used for spot starts and out of the pen on long relief, unless he gets traded….again.
I’m not sure Pomeranz will go to the pen. He will probably have the the best and first opportunity to win the 4th and 5th starter roles. As good as Wright is, he is just the most nature fit to be a long reliever/spot starter/ maybe even a miller type pitcher but in the Wakefield vain. Wright comes off as a team first guy. Erod and Pomeranz could of course easily lose those spots, but I think it is theirs to lose.
Exactly
The exclamation marks mean its true!
Why are you guys trying to outright predict the future? Wright and Pomeranz (and ERod) will COMPETE to be in the rotation. Whoever ends up in the pen will have failed to earn being a starter, and be counted on to be ready to start in the event of likely injury (short or long) anyways.
There is someone with some commonsense!! Exactly how it will go. Only three of the sox pitchers are written in pen for the rotation in 2017; sale, porcello and price.
b/c it’s a prediction. Like when the Red Sox acquired Sale, I predicted that Buchholz would be traded and Pomeranz would start the year in the bullpen. I wasn’t certain of either but, to me they make the most sense. Wright has more value as a starter than a reliever and ERod deserves the chance to succeed as a starter since he is the more unknown commodity with the higher upside. Sure Pomeranz hasn’t started his last game by any means but he is very useful as a lefty out of the pen, long reliever, spot starter, and eventual injury replacement.
Pomeranz has had a history of injury and you want him to be both the 4th and 5th starter! You could at least give him a day off between starts!
Espinoza has proved NOTHING! In fact he got lit up last year.
@ Stumeedone…..lmfao at the comment about giving him a day off….he may not be a legend but he still deserves a day off….good catch on that error or typo
No. Sale, Price, Porcello,Rodriguez, Wright.
Awesome!
hahhahahah
Ayyy what’s the bets on how much salary the Red Sox ate?
Not much if they only got one prospect.
Betts*, at least use the pun when it’s given
I’d guess that if they’re only getting one prospect back that they didn’t eat any salary.
None? The Intern and old man MacPhail are paying Howie Kendrick $10mil and after the Hellickson debacle they’re flushing $17 million on him. What is the point of this? Since this new crew took over the only thing they’ve done that looks like rebuilding is the Ken Giles trade and they botched that by going with the second iteration of the deal. EPIC FAIL after epic fail.
You’re clueless.
They’re one year deals if they work out they flip em for better prospects if not you didn’t spend more then your means in a commitment.
So are the Phillies going for a.500 record or a rebuild? Why trade for a starter that is over paid. The only hope is if he has a great start to the season to flip him for prospects. The sox are just dumping money now they got Sale.
“So are the Phillies going for a.500 record or a rebuild?”
.500 record. Winter 2018 they sign then old man Josh Donaldson and move Franco – finally – to 1B and they “Go For It!” soon to be followed by a 15 year rebuild.
Buchholz isn’t overpaid. He is terrific when on and terrible when off. If he performed to his healthy ability all the time, he would be a $20M+ man on a long-term deal. Because he is not, he is being paid solid money for just a single year. He’s MUCH more inconsistent/unreliable than most, but don’t pretend that he doesn’t have massive upside for any given season.
Buchholz is probably paid almost exactly what he is worth, probably just a bit under, which is why the Red Sox picked up his option, and then got so little (sorry, Toby) in return for him from the Phillies
The Phillies have mountains of cash right now. Buchholz and Kendrick combined make less money than Ryan Howard did last season.
So you’re saying Ryan Howard was part of the rebuild? Hellickson, Buchholtz and Howie Kendrick are part of the rebuild? What are the corresponding moves that were made by the Cubs as they rebuilt? I’ll bet the Cubs are still going strong when the Phillies begin their __next__ rebuild.
Edwin Jackson, Jason Hammel, Bontifacio.
Short term MLB caliber players to allow your young talent to develop.
The Cubs signed Edwin Jackson, acquired Dexter Fowler, had Scott Feldman and Jason Hammel as their pre-contending moves in their rebuild. The phillies are actually similar
Just stop commenting, you are clueless. The yanks are rebuilding and they bought matt holiday. There are many teams that buy people while rebuilding for short term success and to mentor young players. This isn’t a video game. These are real people that want a good clubhouse and leadership. The Phillies signed a multi billion dollar TV contract. They can afford this without an issue. As a season ticket holder of the phillies, I want my money to go toward big league players as well as the farm system (which is also prob one of the top in the league).
dude, shut up… I can’t tell if you’re being serious or not. The Phillies are rebuilding but they need some major league talent to play the games; they can’t just trot out an entire roster of AAA and AA players all season. Kendrick, Hellickson, and Buchholtz were had for next to NOTHING in terms of prospects, so this fits directly in line with the rebuild. You are acting like they just gave up their top 3-4 prospects for Chris Sale, which would go against the rebuild, but giving up no name guys for MLB talent, especially when they have the money to do so, is just smart baseball. You are an idiot.
Yep they cannot field a team of minor leaguers! They have money and they might as well spend it.
Lol, what?
Velasquez’s floor is Giles.
Agreed, I think people are forgetting just how dominant Velasquez is when healthy. Phils look like they are gonna win that trade by a long shot
velasquesz’s floor is tj and repeated injury without finishing a season
“the second iteration of the deal”
Velasquez was the centerpiece of both deals. The second deal dropped any outfielder, added a middle infielder from the Phillies farm and got them Mark Appel.
Appel was and is a busted prospect. The ugly Astros mistake that should have been Kris Bryant.
That’s every pitcher’s floor.
They saw something in his medicals that made the Phillies change the deal.
Appel could be a decent reliever. He was pitching pretty well until he got hurt last year. Obviously hindsight being 20/20 I’d rather have Fischer but we could be saying the opposite next year.
I like the moves they made. They’re trading nothing for low risk MLB players. Even if they can’t flip Hellickson, Kendrick, etc they didn’t give up anything.
both both potential deals included Vasquez it was the other pieces that they got fleeced on
I guess you missed it, but they really didn’t have much in the way of tradable assets to deal the last couple years. Rollins, Utley, and Howard weren’t going to net much of anything anyway. Giles was pretty much it. Hellickson most people figured would net them a draft pick, but he can still probably fetch a prospect at the deadline assuming the Phillies eat a large portion of his salary.
The Phillies had Jeremy Hellickson to deal this year. Hellickson’s bags were packed and sitting by his locker on July 31st. Hellickson is still here. Pitching was in great demand, perhaps more so than any other time in the past decade yet Hellickson is still here. Now the Phillies are paying him $17 million per year instead of eight million to get them a worse draft pick.
The Phillies had Jeremy Hellickson to deal this year. Hellickson’s bags were packed and sitting by his locker on July 31st. Hellickson is still here. Pitching was in great demand, perhaps more so than any other time in the past decade yet Hellickson is still here. Now the Phillies are paying him $17 million per year instead of eight million to get them a worse draft pick.
Head Up the Ṙectum. The Phillies Front Office motto.
What can the Phillies not afford a good veteran to stabilize the rotation? Is this not allowed during the rebuild? This is a team that can afford over 200 mil a year and you are mad at a 17 million dollar contract for a pitcher who just had the best season of his career. I go to games and I pay to see big leaguers, not David buucannon. I went to a game where there were 11000 in paid attendance and this is only 8 years after it was 41000 daily. I think you are the one with your head up your ass.
I wish this site had a moron filter
They got a great front office that has made pretty good deals thus far. I’m not a fan of this but they got billions saved up for the next great team and they can waste a little money now.
Just saw no cash involved.
Wow, looks like zero money is changing hands. I know the logistics of only getting one prospect but the Red Sox are basically dropping a $13MM long reliever for Josh Tobias.
I can hear Ruben Amaro laughing at this group of bozos that compose the Phillies front office.
Dropping $13M and whatever that costs in luxury tax as well… if they are paying luxury tax. I’m just assuming that and could be wrong.
They would’ve had to pay an extra 4.5 million I believe for the luxury tax
None: “…Philadelphia will pick up all the remaining obligations to Buchholz”
Thank god he’s leaving.
Huh
Blocking Eflin, Asher and Thompson is interesting…. i guess
Nola could be in trouble with his elbow, Thompson showed a need for more seasoning, Eflin is mid rotation at best, as is Asher, this kinda makes sense to me on a 1 year deal.
Nola should have been dealt for prospects as soon as he had some hype. Nola’s elbow was always a concern with that delivery. The Phillies front office is brain dead and spineless.
I see Hunter Greene going first in the draft and I see the Phillies are picking eighth instead of first. The Phillies are the only organization that can turn a rebuild into a FRAUD.
Since when does picking first overall guarantee you a surefire all-star? I see all these #1 picks having trouble finding success in the bigs: Appel, Beckham, Hochevar, Bush, Young, Bullington… That’s like a 50% chance of success from 2002-2013 (Aiken, although he didn’t sign, Swanson and Moniak are too soon to tell)
Blocking and putting the brakes on the rebuild when it was only about 40% there.
What??!! Trading a no-name guy for Buchholtz is putting the brakes on the rebuild. Ok, jackass… Maybe you should try following another sport, as this one seems to be a bit over your head
Honestly I would be surprised if the phillies don’t trade at least one of the young arms they have. I know you can never have to much pitching but if they are looking to acquire another bat, then I could see them moving Asher or Eflin. Albeit I hope they don’t trade any of them just yet.
The Phillies should be trying to pick first in the draft. You sell your most valuable assets for stud farm talent The Ken Giles trade should have been the beginning, instead it was the end. There is no light at the end of this tunnel. There is no plan. It’s just mediocrity on the way to the __next__ rebuild.
There is no major league talent. Hahaha going for number 1 in draft? Is this a video game?!?! They are in a baseball market that is rapidly declining. There is nobody in the stands! They had the worst record in the league when they could afford a 200 million dollar team. Where is the money in the organization. They only got 30000 for opening day last year. I don’t understand where your head is. Mickey Moniak is a game changer in center (you wouldn’t know that because you never saw him play irl) and they got a gifted player in odubel and tommy joesph has a lot of pop. Another issue is that there is only one white player in a primary white market. Their fan base is all white. That is how you lose fans and they are doing it quickly and that is why there is urgency to get major league talent.
None of them are ready, they don’t miss enough bats.
Plus we saw last year with Morton, Nola, Eflin, etc you can never have enough starters. It may be beneficial for them to start the season in the bullpen.
it’s not blocking, none of those guys should be on an opening day rotation. so once the deadline comes around and they move buch or hellickson or both, then they can bring up the kids.
Wonder if the Sox ate any salary (no it has not been posted yet which is why I am asking)
And now they’re saying no cash involved.
Howie Kendrick – $10mil
Hellickson – $17mil
Buchholz – $13mil
____________________
$40 million
How much was Yoan Moncada again?
It was the tax and the lost right to sign anyone in future years that made it cost more.
What does that have anything to do with this? Moncada was signed before MacPhail and Klentak took office and there were 29 teams free to bid on him.
One year in each case. Basically irrelevant. Just money out of the owner’s pocket in exchange for a slightly more competitive team in 2017. Has no bearing on anything else.
Not sure what that has to do with this??
Why is he a racist? Because he didn’t dish out gobs of money for a young unproven player who wasn’t going to help a rebuilding team anytime soon?Or should he have just approved crippling their international pull over the next several years for a team with a thin farm and old at every position on the diamond?
All one year deals at relatively modest money. Still less than the Cubs paid Edwin Jackson at the start of their rebuild, and that was for four years.
You are a complete joke dude.
I heard Ryan Howard could be had on a relatively cheap 1 year deal.
It doesn’t matter how good amaro thought he was, it was up to moncada to decide where he would play and he publicly said it would be the Yankees or redsox so your comment is irrelevant
So someones racist because they smartly decided to go quantity of talent over one talent?
Two players are not what rebuilding looks like. Phillies needed bodies at every spot in the farm, crippling their international spending for one of those two (if they got Moncada they wouldn’t have gotten Maitan anyways) players would have been foolish.
Comparing what Moncada costs to what the team has spent in recent years has nothing to do with anything. That same statement would be true for a vast majority of teams. Moncada’s rep made it pretty clear he was going to one of the big two markets.
Maitan wanted to go to the Braves and had pretty much been saying he was a full-year before he signed. There’s more than two teams in the league, you can’t say they were colluding. If any of the other 28 teams offered him more he would have went there if he wanted to. He signed for what he wanted where he wanted. To say he signed for a fraction of what he should have is naive.
“So someones racist”
Who are you referring to? Write his name.
Nah, use some common sense if you can’t figure it out.
All you see is prospects. The only team that counts is the big league team. Moncada was 60 million that that was half spent for a minor league player. I like moncada and he is a good talent but if I am the GM of Phillies I don’t sing more Latin players. The whole roster is Latin and they generally cause trouble. Moniak is a can’t miss prospect and no one realizes it. The Phillies have a stud named sixto Sanchez in GCL and I watched him pitch last year. He had great movement and made the game look easy. How much did he sign for? 30k. I would sign a lot of cheap players over one expensive guy.
Saying latin players cause trouble makes you about as tolerable as that HollywoodHills troll. Also, 18 year olds who haven’t even sniffed full season ball are not “Cant Miss Prospects” or “Studs”
He would need to pay to play for tha Phils lol
I meant howard
Makes it a better deal for the Sox. That said, I think the Phils have a much better chance to come out on top of this deal.
Nice, the Red Sox had to get rid of him. Sale, Price, Wright, Pomeranz, and ERod is looking like a stellar rotation. With that offense, this might be a 100 win season.
You mean Sale, Price, Wright, Porcello, and Pomeranz
you mean sale, price, porcello, pomeranz, erod. Wright will be the depth starter, knuckleballers too volatile.
Wright will be in the starting rotation. He has one of the best knuckleballs to grace the land of baseball since R.A Dickey in his Cy Young season.
ERod isn’t what Red Sox fans think he his. He’s destined for the bullpen in my mind. There is no room in that rotation for him.
So Wright is too volatile but Erod isn’t? I’d rather see Wright over Erod until he is fully ready
yes, erod needs to be facing big leaguers to improve. Wright is kind of a flash in the pan.
It’s a very simple answer, look who pitched the most complete games on the staff last year and saved the pen… it sure as hell was not Erod
we are talking about 2017, not 2016. unless you want to give sale back?
Do some research. A 3.85 ERA in the AL East at age freakin’ 22 in 2015, followed by a 3.24 ERA in 14 healthy starts from July 16th to the end of the season. So far his only “hiccup” has been 6 terrible starts early last season when he CLEARLY wasn’t healthy. If you are going to right off an improving 3.50ish ERA from a 22-23 year old pitcher in toughest division in baseball for a SP due to six unhealthy starts…well, we can all be glad you don’t run a baseball team, because you would be terrible at it.
In reality none of us know what is going to happen, probably even the Sox don’t know yet, but I think it’s pretty good odds that E-Rod is in the rotation – he’s the worst suited to making the transition from pen to rotation and back again for spot starts, and has no real experience in the pen, plus he’s the youngest and can benefit the most from stability and has the most to prove as a starter.
By my estimation the last spot is between Wright and Pomeranz, with Pomeranz being the favorite (his elbow would probably be more at risk jumping back and forth for spot starts than if given a consistent routine, and despite the idea that being a reliever is less stress on the body, you likely wouldn’t want him pitching multiple days in a row as a reliever because of it), and Wright is simultaneously the most susceptible to volatility and the best suited to the long relief/spot starter role.
Porcello die?
Never forget 🙁
You left out 20 game winner, Porcello.
I think you forgot about Porcello
oops haha
Just the CY young no big deal 😉 but it will be interesting how they go about it.. sale, price, porcello obvious top 3 with pomeranz going to be 4. What a problem to have though.. wright or erod for 5th starter. Any one of them would be 2 or 3 for my cellar dwelling Twins..
I think it would be Sale, Price, Porcello, ERod, Wright, barring injuries. Pomeranz to the bullpen
Dito… easy to figure that one out
I think its going to be up for grabs, with Wright probably ending up in the pen.
I think it will make more sense to move a lefty to the pen. Due to the possibility of Knuckleballers causing injury to their catchers, it is probably better to have Wright start, also. Allows them to plan the backup catcher’s playing time.
I mean- depends on what type of prospect they gave up. Like I hope its like a Sam McWilliams type jawn.
Anyone on the top 30 MLBPipeline would be somewhat disappointinf
I watched Tobias play last year. He has some tools. He can make solid contact and he can run decently. However, there is no dicipline and he made some mental errors on the field. He is also not a very good second baseman and may end up in left field if he can’t play second.
If he contributes anything this will be good for philly. Someone has to throw innings and he could be like Nova for them. A guy who has potential and just needed a change of scenery to get going
Picking eighth isn’t bad enough, you want to pick 13th instead? So glad the Phillies won’t be getting Hunter Greene this June. The Phillies Way can’t be this stupid, this is what MLB corruption looks like.
You really are clueless
Just disregard all comments that guy has lol. He thinks that because the 3rd richest team wants to win 80 games it is wrong. It is a video game to him. Let’s pick 1 every year lol that is the dumbest philosophy ever. It is never a good thing to have the first pick.
@hollywoodhills
The Phillies have some good young players, and with Altherr healthy, the team was not going to be miserable in 2017 and get a top pick.
I don’t think the Phillies are getting Buchholz, Kendrick, et al, to compete, I think they are just one-year placeholders so it’s not all kids at the MLB level. If the team can rehabilitate the reputations of these veterans, they will be flipped for prospects.
If the Phillies were ready to compete now, they would have got better players with a longer term.
So you’re saying for the Phillies not to be corrupt, they would have to purposefully field a team that is going to be so awful that they will get the 1st overall pick?
Interesting
Ugh I actually liked Tobias.
Eh probably isnt gonna stick longterm at 2B, isnt that good of a hitter to last at 3B/1B
Looks like it’s pretty much just a salary dump for the Red Sox. They really didn’t get anything to speak of in return.
I think this gets them under the cap … easy move with the SP they have.. no brainer
I thought the Phillies were looking for one more bat.
I think they wanted one more of each.
“I thought the Phillies were looking for one more bat.”
_
With that stacked lineup? Where would the Phillies find room for another bat?
I’m pretty sure this lineup isn’t stacked. Never hurts to have another option at the ready. Depth is a good thing.
I believe that was sacarasm by him. The Phils lineup is terrible. Franco has no dicipline and altherr is terrible. TJ has pop and odubel will be very strong at the top. Galvis has no dicipline and I don’t see Hernandez getting better. Kendrick will help them be consistent and teach them the ways of the big leagues.
A RF is way more important than a depth starter lol idk why they needed bucholz when hellickson is your veteran leader in the rotation
Definitely a win-win-win. BOS sheds his salary, Phils might be getting a solid SP depending on which Buchholz shows up, and Clay gets a rotation spot to build value in his walk year
After nearly 10 years, the roller coaster ride has finally ended. He’s going to throw a perfect game on his 1st outing this time around…followed by many years of uncertainty and frustration. I’m surprised by the timing of this though.
Salary dump for a bat? Edwin?!? Napoli?!?!? I will somewhat miss Buchholz and his terrible hair though.
lol there is getting hit with the ugly stick but Buchholtz takes it to a whole new level
The ugly stick wasn’t the only thing that was able to hit him last year. The rest of the league and the DL was also good at hitting him lol
Good trade for the Phillies
Will Boston fans miss him?
Yes
I will actually.
Yes
Salary dump. Nice gamble for the Phils.
Would love to have easy access to every comment on here over the last couple years that had Buccholz traded for a notable prospect or player, lol I bet those would be hilarious.
Yankee fans were once convinced Joba Chamberlain would be an ace. Orioles fans once said something about Radhames Liz being an ace, Jays fans said the same about Ricky Romero, etc.
It’s funny how many teams fans have declared a top prospect with some success in the majors to be the next big thing. Which hilarious failed prospect did you think would be great?
I was convinced that Kershaw and Chad Billingsley would be the modern version of Koufax / Drysdale. I also thought James Loney would eventually develop 25-30 HR power.
You and me both vtadave. Bills was supposed to be a Stud, but always had that 1 inning where he’d get shelled. Never failed, breezing along and then BAM,
You were kinda half right anyway
You would have helped make my point better if you just mentioned Loney since he was mentioned as a headliner prospect for many trades.
Justin Smoak. You could also just say ‘all mariners prospects from felix/Seager to now”
Earl Cunningham. Derrick May. Jerome Walton, the curse of the ROY. Brooks Kieschnick. Tuffy Rhodes.
I thought Darin Ruf had it in him about 4 years ago…. Too bad ryan Howard ruined his career and never let him be an everyday player until it was too late.
ehhh … Ryan Howard “ruined” his career? That’s a bit harsh. Ruf transitioned to the OF relatively okay and got at-bats. I say relatively because he manned the position of Pat Burrell and Raul Ibanez, so there was almost the expectation that we didn’t need a stud defender out there, and he wasn’t Dom Brown Bad in the OF. Ruf capitalized on a few isolated opportunities and gave us just enough power to think, wow, he should get regular at=bats, but when he finally did, we realized that he just wasn’t all that good. I was rooting for him too, though, like 4 years ago
You may be right, but this dude was the man in the minors and he is a first baseman he cannot play a good outfield. If Darin ruf had regular at bats to begin I just think he could have made it.
I was sure Kalish was going to be an above average starter, same of Cecchini and Allen Webster.
Just go back a week or two on here and there are some Buchholz threads with some “reach” prospect packages…lol.
I’ve never heard of a rotation staying healthy all year. Good pickup for the Phillies. Makes a lot of money but the Phillies can afford it. Don’t cry for billionaire owners because guys get paid.
Happy to see the Red Sox finally move away from him. He got a ton of chances, gave some good innings at times, but it was definitely time to move on.
Assuming he can stay healthy, he’ll eat some innings for the Phillies. Kind of interesting they’re taking on his whole contract though, it’s a lot of money for what it is.
I’m not sure why people are calling this a salary dump, when his option was just picked up a few weeks ago. I guess it can be a “dump” now that Sale is in Boston?
it was picked up before sale was acquired, he makes roughly what sale makes.
I really feel like this opens the door for Edwin to Boston… seemed like luxury tax was the only barrier to Dumbrowski going for that. Anyone else?
I could see it opening the door for one of them at least.
Yes, it looks like it may happen. If they can get a breakdown of contract like Ian Desmond but of course higher numbers, We may see that probably happen.
No I don’t see this at all. 11 million doesn’t match 20 and I promise you EE isn’t taking 11 per. This was trading an 11 million dollar pitcher who didn’t have a spot to pitch so why pay him that much. Stop wishful thinking. This does not open up for Edwin or else they would’ve found someone much longer ago to trade with if they were scared EE would sign elsewhere
Its $13.5 for Clay, not $11, but still, I really hope the Sox don’t go for EE. Would be a multiple year deal for greater than that. Sox need to leave some space for when the kids start getting paid.
Maybe a yoenis cespedes type deal from last year 3 year deal with an easy opt out after the first. Definitely don’t want a long term deal for a dh type with hanley already around.
Totally agree. I don’t really care for the sox but for their own good don’t pay that much for an aging slugger when you’re gonna have like 5 young superstars you have to start paying
Hanley only has 2 years left. He’s not really long-term.
He’s not that long but with travis waiting in the wings anything beyond a year deal for a 1b or dh is to long with hanley.
He is not getting 20 million per, or he is not getting 4 years. Simple as that.
4 years @ 80 million is absolutely doable, especially if a team wants to front load the contract. He was already offered that contract by Toronto and balked at it.
If anyone would read twitter lol DD came out and told Joel Sherman this trade was not to clear money to add another big bat. Therefore no EE. Keep dreaming peeps
Unless I am missing something, correct me if I am. The Red Sox were at $181M before the Buchholz trade, now they are at $168M. The 2017 luxury tax threshold is $195M. This opens the door for just about anything for them. They have $27M to play with now instead of $14M b/c Buch has one year left for $13.5M.
I suspect they hold onto the wiggle room for a mid-season acquisition and future in-house raises (xander, mookie, jackie). But nothing would surprise me with DD, I could see him bringing in EE just to try to get a ring.
PS I hope we see Ortiz come back in July when he is eligible!
They also have $11M coming off the books after 2017 for the corpse of Allen Craig, so another reason why they can commit some of the $27M they have now to a free agent/acquisition. They currently have only 39 men on the 40-man roster. The Red Sox are in an enviable position.
Fun fact: just saw that the Red Sox have $2M per year on the books payable to Manny Ramirez until 2026, when he will be 54 lol
Deferred money doesn’t count against any luxury tax, though right? I think it works similar to signing bonuses in the NFL where it is spread out evenly over the guaranteed years of the deal?
Honestly I don’t know and it’s only $2M so I wasn’t mentioning it for luxury tax purposes (like the allen craig comment) but I just thought it was funny to see it included in the Red Sox “total payroll commitments for 2017”
Ya, no I was just curious because of the way the Nationals work with everything being deferred. I didn’t realize Manny was still getting some, too.
lol ya some of their deals are very creative lets say. The Ryan Zimmerman option deal that also gives him 5 years of $10M per year after he retires to work for the organization is interesting to say the least.
There’s also the matter of them losing their 1st round draft pick. I doubt they sign him,
Even on a 1 year deal you get a 40 hr hitter with a obp of 372 and 357 the last two years I’ll take the sure thing on a 1 year deal for a win now team like the red sox vs pick 24.
Sorry still don’t see it
I doubt they sign either of EE or Joey Bats. Both come with the loss of first round draft pick and I can’t see the Sox valuing. Short term deal and lose the pick. My guess is they hold that financial flexibility until the season and see where they may need help and use that to be able to absorb a contract or two and stay under that luxury tax.
This move got them under the cap. Any further move will put them back over. If youre holding your breath till they spend the “savings”, we’ll just call you Mr. Blue.
EE would put them back well over the threshold, trading Buchh doesn’t make that signing any more likely.
If MLBTR’s salary arbitration awards are close the Red Sox 2017 payroll for MLB Luxury Tax Purposes all inclusive (40 man roster, etc…) now comes to just about $180MM+/-
you know players meals and travel expenses count against the tax as well right? can’t just use base salary figures.
So basically the Red Sox had to clear Clay’s $13.5mil to cover Pablo’s meal expenses?
Boom
Ummmm this is not true, at all.
would you like to bet?
Good. Glad it’s not the mariners
Yes! He’s gone!!! Years of mediocrity finally eradicated! Thank you DD!!
Never enjoy reading good things about the RS.
Ok, I won’t.
Pure salary dump by the Sox to stay under the luxury tax. Good move by the Phillies to add a guy who might be something on a one year deal. If he’s any good they can flip him in July for better prospects than the one they gave up. Or if they really like him they can tag him the way they tagged Hellickson. And the Phillies have a lot of money with almost no payroll because of the purge over the last few years.
ITA.. Dombrowski brought this on by overpaying for Price. This was a bank account transaction, not a talent transaction.. As a Sox fan I don’t like this trade at all.
Lets go mets
Bad trade by Phillies lol.
Lol
ROFL
omg
Why would they trade for Buchholz when they could sign someone like Fister who’s better and cheaper?
Because they are totally clueless
Wake up Fister has been having arm issues
That’s true but I’d rather take a chance on a talented pitcher who generates lots of ground balls vs a guy who will give up 15+ home runs in his home ballpark.
As the Phillies why would you not make moves like these. Veteran guys you’re giving a chance to play everyday when you have the money to spend anyways while your youngsters are growing and if the vets play well flip them for more prospects. They were one of the biggest markets around for year so obviously there’s money just laying around to spend. Why not have experience in the clubhouse and someone who can mentor and if it doesn’t work out oh well it was a one year deal. The Phillies front office I believe is doing a great job. If you wanna look at a laughing stock rebuild go look at Cincinnati. That’s a joke. Phillies are heading in the right direction absolutely
Finally, some common sense around here. Thank you. I only had to scroll through a million idiot comments from hollywoodhills first…
“I’m behind Pedroia on the depth chart? Oh, boy…” -Josh Tobias
If Tobias ever hits the MLB, hed likely be doing so when Pedroia is in his decline.
Yes congrats, you got one of the few farmhands that speaks English. Stop boasting! Lol
So the Phillies would rather give up a prospect and pay Buchholz $13 mil instead of signing someone like Jhoulys Chacin to eat innings? (Chacin only cost the Padres $1.5 mil). This deal just makes zero sense for the Phillies. They are nowhere near competing. Bad move after bad move for this FO.
It’s a gamble a bad team can take if he looks like he did second half of last year for the first half great trade candidate. Chacin won’t bring anything of value were as clay might end up being worth something. And it’s just $ on a one year deal for a big market team.
And chacin isn’t eating innings when he’s on the DL
Lol Buchholz is the king of going on the DL
They didn’t give up a prospect. Tobias is 24 in A ball without a clear position.
This wasn’t necessarily a need. Wonder if one of the young arms (Valasquez) is now on the move to acquire a right fielder?
Maybe Clay Buchholz wasn’t necessarily the need, but A veteran pitcher definitely was a need. Having Hellickson as the only guy who can likely throw close to 200 innings puts a ton of pressure on the young guys, and I don’t think that’s a good thing. Bringing in Buchholz (I would have been okay with signing Fister instead, maybe could have had him on a 2 year deal for about the same amount as 1 year of Buccholz) gives 3 opening spots to the young guys. There will be injuries and under-performers, so this depth move is definitely a need.
Phillies have way too much money to spend. They should have got a prospect back because they decided to pay the money instead of Boston. Yes I see the gamble they are taking, but buchholz may end up as a reliever or closer at some point. Phillies now have great depth a pitcher and I will now predict that they trade Velasquez. Any thoughts?
I wouldn’t mind seeing that happen. Actually, I thought Vinny V could fit well in a trade with Texas earlier in the offseason, but I’m not so sure now. I don’t think this Buchholtz move was done with the intent of trading one of our young arms; I think this is purely a depth move, which is a necessary move considering we have no idea how Nola and Vinny V are going to come back from injuries last year.
Maybe the Sox have enough payroll to sign Batista now and give him the 2 year deal he was willing to sign with the Sox..I sure hope so..Go Sox
You want Bautista? Why? He is old and he is starting to tear down. I rather have Michael Saunders in right than Joey baus. There is no need for Sox to waste more money when they already have a great farm system and major league talent. If you want a hitter go trade a good prospect and get JD Martinez
boston fan here: straight up question. who benefits?
Everyone no place for him with the Sox and don’t want to pay him while the Phillies can afford to have another arm and have $ to blow.
Boston for the salary dump but the Phillies win if Buch becomes even a good back end pitcher. So basically the Phils have the advantage.
Smart trade by Boston, dumping a ton of salary on a buyer who for some reason didn’t care, and getting a prospect in the exchange. Could work for Philly, especially if Buchholz performs as 3/4 starter. He can then be flipped at the deadline for better prospects than Tobias.
They shed payroll great, I am willing to bet they sign EE or trade for a power bat.
Just hand me your money now. This move got them under the cap. They have no intent on going back over.
So how is that so different then the money sucking owner in Balt ? Peter Angelos, you know the guy that made a fortune on misery of others with the Owens Corning asbestos law suit
Have fun with that hot mess, Phillies.
Who’s paying his contract?
i just cant believe on the trade.. i thought the sox would get some top 30 prospects like what the cards get with garcia trade. i feel sad and bad
I feel glad,
I am sure others will feel mad.
But I guess in the end it will all really depend on what type of 2017 Bucholz has had.
If he is really rad,
then maybe it turns out the Sox undersold a tad.
good trade for everyone, Phillies get a veteran starter they can flip at the trade deadline, Buchholz gets a fresh start on a spotty career and Sox free themselves of money to remain under the tax penalty.
the sox under DD undervalue their players a lot in trades
If Buchholz can be traded, looks like Anibal and Pelfrey can be traded.
Only if we find a taker, and decide not to take a real prospect back. How many more Phillies are out there? Maybe SD? I bet they have a non prospect or two.
I commend Phillies on what they are trying to do. Much like thier cross state rival, they are trying to get the most bang for its bucks. As you watch the league trying to build their farm system, big spenders are helping them out. Middle to small market teams are getting prospects and developing them the way they should. No reason to rush prospects when you can add pieces short term until prospects have enough reps in the minors. On most cases, these prospects do achieve some success through a lengthy process. Cubs and Royals are prime example on building a team for the future
Sorry. I am not seeing how $13.5MM for a 0.2 WAR player that is 32 makes any sense financially.
And I am not seeing how the Phillies are a mid-market team. They are the 7th largest market, bigger than Boston.
They have to be something lower then high market if they have that competitive draft pick at the end of the first round. Cubs made similar moves before they became good. And they have resources like Boston
The Phils are the third largest market. They got loads of money and they have little salary so maybe Martinez next year to the Phils on a 150+mil contract and they compete
This appears to be a good trade for everyone involved. DD picked up Clay’s option when he didn’t have Sale and I am quite sure Clay would not of been traded if the Red Sox didn’t get Sale.
This trade is great for the Clay and the Phillies if Clay has one of his good runs in his contract year they will be able to trade him for quality assets at the deadline. Clay get to go to the NL where I’m guessing he will be real tough and probably have a great year. The Red Sox get to shed salary on an asset that they would not of signed if they already had Sale. It is a win-win-win for everyone involved.
I’m happy for Clay he will be in the Phillies rotation from the get go and hopefully he does well. The Red Sox will be under the cap this year and will reset to be players in the monster free agents that are coming up.
I am a sox fan, and I just think when dd has a lot of talent on his roster he isn’t very thrifty or careful when trading away excess. I hated bucholz as a redsox player. However we sold him for as low as low goes and I think it was stupid to force yourself in a situation to have to do that. I relize it became necessary because of our glut of starters. But dd put himself in that position to have to dump one. I love the trade from the phillies perspective. It’s one year 13 mil. It won’t handcuff them in anyway cuz he’s gone. Bucholz was pretty decent at the end of last year. And there is somewhere between a 25-50% bucholz will go on an impressive run the first half of next season (especially in the national league and with no expectations) and then at the deadline the phillies can do what the redsox never had the guts to do, trade him when his value was high. If bucholz goes 8-2 with a 2.52 era before the deadline amaro can then trade him to a contender for one or two of their top 30 prospects at least and boom there you have it a win. And there is at least a decent chance bucholz performs well the first half.
Amaro can’t trade for anyone he is coach on the Red Sox now.
When a team is in contention and having a good year, of course you wont trade one of the pitchers who got you there when the value is high. Phillies will have the opportunity Boston never had, because they wont be contending.
C’mon, good deal for everybody, even for Buck. With no DH, bigger parks he might win 15 games over there and resurrect his career. Sox clear some salary…..Now DD can get a HUGE box, stick Panda into it, mail it to Detroit, and get Miggy……..
In short there is 0 risk for the phillies because they are under the tax threshold and the money comes of the books next year. But it comes with a decent chance you can flip bucholz for twice as much as you got him for at the deadline.
Good deal for both sides in my opinion, with the possibility of being a great deal for the Phillies depending on what they get in return, if they manage to flip Buchholz.
Red Sox rotation in my opinion will now be Sale, Porcello, Price, Wright, and Rodriguez with Pomeranz moving to the bullpen. I think Pomeranz is better suited for the pen as he doesn’t go very deep into games and this will allow his fastball to tick up a few MPH. I could be wrong in my prediction above, but it’ll come down to Pomeranz and Rodriguez.
Speaking of Pomeranz, was it ever revealed who the Cubs tried to flip him for before the Red Sox got him?
this has 214 comments is fans are desperate for big trades
88% of these commentators are bitter Red Sox fans. 10% are frightened Phillies fans. 2% are hopeful Phillies fans.
haha, good breakdown…I am one of the 2% then, I guess. Not exactly hopeful that Clay turns out to be a stud, but just realizing that this is a practical, no-risk move for a Phillies team that needs pitching depth, has money to spend, and really didn’t even give up a prospect. Very difficult to dislike this move as a Phillies fan.
Good trade. If it means getting at least a half-way decent prospect, Phillies can and should eat the money on Hellickson, Buchholz, Kendrick, Benoit, and Neshek if any of them have a over-achieving year or there’s a plethora of injuries. Just get back arms, arms arms arms that’s all I want back. Pay up for 2 bats in 2018. Machado & Harper will only be 26. If they remain + players, Phillies should make a run at both. Atleast a 4 year window to win right there.
2008 WS Phillies – 6 of 8 starters under 30 years old. 2012 81-81 Phillies – 1 of 8 starters under 30.
2018 Phillies:
C – Alfaro/Someone Not Currently in Organization
1B – Franco/Hoskins
2B – Hernandez/Someone Not Currently In Organization
SS – Crawford
3B – Machado – 30M
LF – Quinn/Cozens/Williams/Someone Not Currently in Organization
CF – Herrera
RF – Harper – 30M
you get an “A” for enthusiasm and your general outlook on the Buchholz trade, but Harper and Machado might be 400million dollar players, so there is no way the Phils sign both of them. Let’s get serious.
Where else are they going to spend money though? I don’t think anyone is going to get 400M unless it’s a Hockey Contract for 20 years or like Bonilla getting paid until he dies. If 180M is your ceiling they can have two 30M guys. I’d like to at least get one of those guys though, but I don’t see much else on the FA market worth signing. They don’t need dead money signing guys that are 32 and up to big contracts. Like I see people going Donaldson, he may be done his run in two years going downhill.
Just curious, how old do you think Machado and Harper will be when their big contracts end?
Probably as old as Neil Patrick Harris right now. Best players available in 2018 Dozier – 32, Donaldson – 33, Blackmon – 32, Adam Jones – 33,
Would you rather spend big on Machado at 26 or Donaldson at 33?
The Phils need to address their right field need. Someone like Cargo. We have spare pitchers to move.
Cargo’s numbers away from Coors are not good. And he’s already 31 and a UFA in 2018.
I’m not ready to write off Pomeranz to the bullpen just yet, I still see him as a potiential impact starter. It would be (would have been) foolish to trade him so soon. I think we outsiders generally underestimate the disruption of joining a new team, new clubhouse, new city. Routines change and it takes some guys longer than others to adjust. I’m very, very glad we’re keeping him, just hope he stays healthy.
Bucholz certainly showed glimmers of excellence now and then, but Red Sox fans know all too well what a tease of a pitcher he is. I saw him as fragile, easily rattled, wildly inconsistent. I wish him all the best, of course, I don’t hate him. But I think Red Sox fans are sick of thinking about him, his role, his status–he’s been a giant, irksome question mark for many years and the bottom line is that you don’t want to have to count on him. For Red Sox fans, the trade isn’t about the numbers or advanced metrics–it’s a psychological thing. Heck, he might go to Phillie and pitch like an ace, he’s got talent. Sox fans have just had too much that storyline.