5:05pm: In a full column on the matter, Rosenthal adds to his initial report, noting that the Dodgers are now expected to circle back to the Rays and Tigers on respective trade targets Logan Forsythe and Ian Kinsler. (Kinsler has a no-trade clause, but his agent has previously told Rosenthal that he’d waive the protection in exchange for a contract extension.)
Both Forsythe and Kinsler are right-handed bats, which would fill a significant need for the Dodgers, who rated as the game’s worst offense against left-handers in 2016. Forsythe enjoyed a breakout season with the Rays in 2015 and had a strong (albeit slightly diminished) followup in 2016. Across the past two seasons, the 29-year-old has batted .273/.337/.444 with 37 homers and 15 steals.
Forsythe lacks the power of Dozier (who has homered 70 times in the past two seasons), but he’s comparable from a financial standpoint. Currently, Forsythe is set to earn $14.75MM in the next two years, although the $9MM value of his 2018 option could rise by as much as $1.5MM based on his plate appearances in 2017. He’ll earn $500K upon reaching 550, 600 and 633 plate appearances. With a comparable financial commitment but less power than Dozier, Forsythe could potentially be had for a lower asking price, although the Rays are still likely to ask for quite a bit in return.
Talks between the Twins and Dodgers could pick back up later this offseason, but for the time being, it doesn’t seem as if the two sides will continue talking. Rosenthal writes that the Twins want Dozier to have some increased peace of mind heading into the season, and that meshes with previous reports that cited similar reasoning behind Minnesota pushing for resolution one way or another.
1:35pm: The Twins and Dodgers are at an “impasse” in their discussions over second baseman Brian Dozier, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (Twitter links). Minnesota could still hold further discussions, as Bob Nightengale of USA Today also suggests via Twitter, but it seems that the sides are at a standstill for the time being.
Meanwhile, there’s another intriguing thread to the Dozier saga, courtesy of MLB.com’s Rhett Bollinger. He says that the Twins have had at least some talks with the representatives for free agent slugger Jose Bautista, as well as other prominent open-market hitters. Particularly if Dozier remains in the fold, it seems, the Twins could perhaps make a slight pivot in their offseason strategy to take advantage of a tantalizing arrangement of power bats still available to the highest bidder.
In a sense, of course, the news on Dozier isn’t new. We’ve been told for some time that the Dodgers were largely standing on their offer of young righty Jose De Leon for the veteran, with the teams bargaining over the additional pieces. While Los Angeles was said to be willing to kick on some more prospect assets, perhaps those pieces aren’t viewed as significant enough to move the ball for Minnesota.
It seems there’s still some opening for talks to continue, but we are at the end of the roughly one-week period within which Minnesota was reportedly set to make a decision. The club has put out the word that it doesn’t intend to drag out negotiations over the rest of the spring, due at least in part out of respect for Dozier. Of course, the organization likely also would like to move on with alternative approaches in the event that Dozier is to remain on hand for at least the first half of the upcoming season.
Resign Jeff Kent
I have three Jeff Kent posters in my apartment, in one of them he’s on his motorcycle. GOAT
Good ball player, terrible teammate
maybe the Dodgers look to Texas and Jurickson Profar.
I guess no news isn’t good news
Twins may get more interested in Matt Wisler and Aaron Blair, bot MLB top 100 pitching prospects prior to their rookie years in exchange for Brian Dozier and either Mitch Garver or Ben Rortvedt.
That’s one of the worst trade proposals I’ve ever seen
What about the Shelby Miller proposal… oh wait that wasn’t a proposal…
Being a Dbacks fan, I just threw up
In my mouth.
Dozier by himself for Blair and Wisler is a bad trade proposal for the Twins, not to mention for Garver/Rortvedt also being added. Not going to happen.
why would Atlanta ever take that? to be a little better (but still under .500) and make the rebuild take longer?
Because dozier is worth way more than that and if they got him for that they could work to flip him for more.
Not even close. Dozier alone worth much more
another day, another crazy trade proposal from a braves fan.
Yes, but one that did not include Markakis. Does that mean they are becoming more rational?
Both of these replies are amazing. 1 to each.
why do people think they would trade prospects especially when catcher is thin in the systerm
Please go home. As a Braves fan, I’m getting so tired of you 9 year olds making us look stupid. While I still believe in Wisler and Blair regaining some of their value in the future, there is no way the Twins should even halfway consider that a fair trade.
I’m a Braves fan and that is terrible. Rortvedt would probably bring one of these guys and possibly more just himself.
You sir are not a braves fan, or you are not very smart one
I’m glad the Dodgers aren’t budging on this…he is a huge upgrade at 2B and he would definitely fill our need for a bat that handles lefties but we can’t mortgage the future…I hope they stand firm and if we end being the best offer out there then maybe they will accept DeLeon and some other pieces…if not he’s obviously an intriguing arm that could help out this year
Exactly. I’m more excited to what JDL could bring to our rotation. Give Barnes a chance at 2nd base. Or Barnes/Utley platoon. If that fails, revisit negotiations for Dozier mid season.
Barnes is already set as backup catcher.
I agree. We need more innings out of our rotation more than we need more pop from a middle infielder. If we had to give up DeLeon, I’d rather it be for more of a more consistent higher average contact hitter/table setter at second, rather than a seemingly streaky Dozier.
De Leon is the future? Then the future looks grim since he projects to be a back of the rotation starter IF he works out at all. You got a 1 in 3 shot of him making it as a regular in the majors and the best you can hope for is a 2-2.5 WAR starter.
Please provide a link to Deleon having a ceiling of a back of the rotation starter and anything to back up your assertion that he has a 1 in 3 shot of making it as a regular.
Also 6 years of a 2-2.5 win pitcher at a cheap price is an extremely valuable player.
This guy is obviously an anti Dodgers troll good grief
No, he’s just that a-hole you remember from middle school that thinks he knows everything. Sure he’s right part of the time, but that’s not good enough for him. And you’ll never convince him he’s wrong.
Well, fangraphs prospect write up had him as a 3/4 type, which might be what he’s referring to. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/top-21-prospects-los-angeles-dodgers/
That is likely outcome, not ceiling.
Baseball America. Baseball Prospectus. Minor League Ball. Fangraphs. ESPN’s Keith Law. All agree on that. Ceiling of a #3 starter. Projections of a #4 with a WAR of about 10 over the next 6 seasons. De Leon is a top 50 prospect because of his projectability, but he is not a high CEILING prospect.
You should perhaps read what the fangraphs pieces are saying more closely. likely outcome of 3-4 does not mean that is his ceiling. I agree with your point that he is not a high ceiling starter, but 3-4 ceiling is not what that post says – “I think DeLeon will be a solid No. 3 or 4 starter.” That is saying a likely outcome for him.
I’m not going to read through all of those to see what they say because if you can’t read one of them correctly I’m going to assume you fail to read the others correctly as well.
Also a solid #3-4 pitcher is as much a mid rotation as it is backend pitcher
Ok so you’ve thrown out all your numbers and sources, what do you think would be a fair package to land Brian Dozier? From the Dodgers or another team…
Maybe 2-3 innings a start is what you are thinking about. Deleon is not proven what so ever. I can’t imagine anyone wanting a starter who won’t throw more than 120 innings
He would also be the best starter on the Padres immediately.
DeLeon plus Toles, Van Slyke or Puig
Your crazy to give up that
Outfielders? That’s and utility infielders are what the Twins already have a surplus in..
Dozier wouldn’t be worth Bellinger and De Leon. As many have reported that Minnesota wants Bellinger in the deal. Even a package of Verdugo and De Leon wouldn’t be worth it either.
I hope the Dodgers hang on to Bellinger…I think he’ll be ready to take over for A-Gon soon
I haven’t seen a single report that indicates the Twins want Bellinger. They need pitching. It would make sense for them to concentrate on guys like Stewart, Buehler, Sheffield etc
They aren’t really in a position to start asking for specific areas of need. They need viable talent, whatever position they play.
They have five 24 and younger former top 100 prospects playing the 8 position player positions. They need pitching, not bats.
rols, i don’t think it is as bad trade proposal.. The Twins are getting two top 100 pitchers and the Braves are getting a backup catcher or AAA catcher and they are getting a second baseman that may or may not be above average mlb player.. Good trade proposal backatit
I think ypu twin fans are really overvaluing Dozier, what has he had one year when hes gotten hot?
Over the past three seasons, he’s been one the best second basemen in the game.
What exactly would you want your team to get for a top three 2B with 2 years still before free agency?
DeLeon organizational fodder isn’t going to do the trick.
Organizational fodder might be undervaluing some of the Dodgers other prospects not named Bellinger…they have some other pieces in their overall strong farm system
DeLeon is “organizational fodder”?
I think he was saying the other prospects the Dodgers are offering besides JDL…people forget that we have a pretty solid farm system and there are plenty of other options with potential
Might be undervaluing the other prospects not named Bellinger or De Leon, but fodder is what the Dodgers want to throw in.
He meant de Leon “plus” organizational fodder, but plus signs don’t show up in the text boxes. You’ll notice a space where the plus sign was in his original text.
De Leon has a ceiling of a #3 starter. That is the very best you can hope for if he makes it at all. Only 30% of prospects at his point in development turn into regulars in the major leagues. Projections for him are a 1.68 WAR per season over the next 6 seasons. That is a back of the rotation starter.
So what is it? Your previous post has DeLeon projecting as a backend rotation starter with a 1 in 3 chance at being a regular rotation piece. Did you actually do some research this time? He projects as a 3 with a ceiling of a 2.
That is the very best you can hope for? Where do I get a flux capacitor so that I can definitively say that some players never exceed their projections the same as some never meet them…too many scientists on this site
Thank you. I was wondering why the plus sign never showed up. From now on, I’ll type out the word.
Who said he was one of the top 3, among the top half maybe
Baseball America, Baseball Prospectus, Minor League Ball, Keith Law and Fangraphs all agree that he projects as a #4 with a ceiling of a 33. Even the Bill James Handbook says he has the ceiling of a #3. What makes De Leon such a high prospect is not that he has a high ceiling, its that he is projectable. With prospects ranking 30-50 at his stage of development you have about a 30% chance of them becoming a major league regular. A 1 in 3 shot. I think he may have a little better shot than what the odds are, so let’s give him the benefit of the doubt and say he has a 50% chance of making it in the majors. If you were the Twins GM, would you trade one of the top 2B in baseball for a 50% shot at a guy that has a ceiling of a #3 starter and projects to give you 10 WAR over the next 6 years? Not likely.
from baseball prospectus “Role: 60—No. 3 starter’. That is likely future outcome of a #3 starter (not #4) and not saying a #3 ceiling.
Who said Dozier was top 3?
Over the past three seasons, he’s been #3 in WAR among qualified second basemen.
You could argue his exact ranking, but it’s moot. Because you’re getting a guy who is 3-5 projected WAR guy.
You are trading for a 40 homer bat whether he is one or not
Except that being within the top 100 prospect lists on their way to the Majors doesn’t mean that they’ll have that amount of success when they reach it. Both Wisler and Blair still need a good amount of work before they have good success at the top level, with Wisler desperately needing to have a third pitch other than his fastball and slider and Blair needing to work on his mechanics.
neither are top 100 pitchers actually
They were both top 100 prospects.
Prediction! Dodgers don’t sign Dozier and move on but still win the division. The angels sign him out of nowhere and dozier and trout carry them to win the AL west.
Well actually nobody will be signing Dozier because he’s not a free agent…and the barren dumpster fire known as the Angels farm system doesn’t have enough pieces in it to acquire Dozier so…no
And already acquired a 2B, so no urgency to be the team to find out if Dozier really figured the game out or simply had a magical season.
Can a barren dumpster catch on fire?
I suppose I should’ve been more specific and clarified that it is a dumpster made out of flammable materials
Slap a Halos’ logo on anything and there’s going to be a possibility of a fire.
Prediction Dozier won’t be signed by any team this year. He is not a free agent.
Dodgers will just trade for Brett Lawrie.
The Dodgers do need to move an OF but I would prefer it be Puig or Ethier, with more of a return for Puig of course…Toles was so good in the playoffs I’m curious to see how he would pan out during the regular season
Wouldn’t cost a lot and he’s only making $3.5 mill.
Dozier for DeLeon and Alvarez.
They’ve got 32 million into Alvarez, he has a chance for 4 plus pitches, and that 100 he tosses is easy like Sunday morning. Alvarez isn’t going to be included in a Dozier deal.
Dodger get starlin Castro, Yankees get puig or
Dodger get Castro and Mateo, Yankees get joc
I know the Yankees already have too much outfield but Gardner can be traded so can hicks for a solid 4th starter which Yankees need( also clears some payroll) puig needs a change maybe there are some guys in New York (past Yankees) who can sit down and get something g through his head. Not to mention that the doubles he pimps would be homers at Yankee stadium. Or with joc the Yankees get a guy that can do serious damage at Yankee stadium if he figures it out
The dodger get a second baseman that will hit .260-.280, 20hr, 60-70rbi and enough athletic ability to improve defensively
The Yankees can fill the spot until Torres comes up
Maybe not .280 more like .260-.270
Sounds like you’re a Yankees fan…not a good enough return for Joc…Puig maybe but definitely not Joc
Yankees get joc, McCarthy(and his whole contract
Dodger get Castro Mateo 10-15 prospect or someone like judge
I mean if they threw in Mateo and Judge they would have to at least stop and think about it but Joc is our starting CF and he’s young…I think he will also improve on his offensive stats as he comes into his prime years
joc isn’t that good man
Why would the Dodgers trade their starting CF’er?
Dodgers also have too many outfielders and most scouts believe Mateo will play CF in the majors. They also need a right handed bat and a second baseman. I don’t think their offense would miss joc if they had Castro or anyone else who can hit 25 hr and not strike out as much
Joc Pederson 129 wrc+, Starlin Castro 94. Joc does a lot more for their offense than just hit 25 hrs, which Starlin Castro has never done, and stands very little chance of doing at dodgers stadium.
Mateo projects as a CF? That’s fine and dandy but we need Joc in CF now! I can somewhat see where you were going with your idea but realistically it wouldn’t happen because of how valuable Joc is too the Dodgers…he hasn’t exactly set the world on fire by any means but he is a valuable part of our team and what they’re trying to accomplish
I agree that it’s probably not realistic but I believe it would be a pretty fair trade. My only thing is that ever since he’s come up he hasn’t been able to make the necessary adjustments. Eventually it has to come together or the dodgers will get sick of their once “the next big superstar” never living up to his potential. I just think with Castro they get an absolute need, while with joc they have outfield depth also adding judge(who is a complete wild card) would leave them with some money to spend, a still very good team, and an added top 40 prospect in the game
I really hope that Judge figures it out he’s on my minor league keeper roster in my fantasy league I would love if he comes out and drops bombs this year
There are so many options that are > or = to starlin castro that wouldn’t require them to trade their starting cf. It makes absolutely no sense for the dogers and is a windfall for the nyy. Are you a yankees fan?
Starlin Castro has been around long enough for me to think that despite whatever athleticism you think he has, he is what he is at defense. Maybe better than what he was last year, but never great.
Ruben Tejada has a very similar career slash line as Starlin Castro. Castro has done better lately, but let that sink in for a second….
Joc Pederson plays a premium position and plays it well.
Sweet. Could the Dodgers go for a cheaper Josh Harrison for a couple of lottery tickets?
The Dodgers want a superstar to add to the roster but they don’t want to give up anything for that superstar
Superstar might be pushing it a little…Dozier is an upgrade but he isn’t worth Bellinger and DeLeon and a few other prospects isn’t exactly a package to sneeze at
Even if he regresses he will be worth substantially more than De Leon at the deadline when other teams enter the market.. De Leon has durability concerns and has never pitched deep into a season, he has a lot of development left to go. Dodger fans are delusional when they can’t just buy something
The Twins would be fools not work work out a deal that includes De Leon. They are probably just stalling and squeezing a little more from the Dodgers, and that is just good business. FYI, not a Dodgers fan
Not necessarily true, dude. If Dozier regresses with another early season slump, he’s lost a lot of perceived value at the trade deadline. He’s seen as a lesser hitter with only 1+ years of control left. It’s very unlikely his trade value will ever be higher than it is now, as a 40+ HR second baseman with two full years of inexpensive team control. I think it will take more than De Leon now, but there’s the possibility it might take more than 1+ year of Dozier to get a whole lot of years of De Leon later.
You are operating under the assumption that a market will certainly materialize for a 2b at the deadline and that dozier will continue to be good. These are not certainties at all.
Just Another Fan
Jose De Leon is a consensus top 10 MLB prospect, get out of here with your “durability concerns” LMAO
top 10 prospect? he is not even a top 3 prospect on his own team
Considering his history, it’s a much better certainty than that De Leon will ever be an every 5th-day starter in MLB. De Leon has a ceiling of a #3-#4 starter. IF everything goes right for him, he is going to pitch at the back of some rotation and there is only a 30% chance of that happening. Prospects don’t work out far more than they do work out, even those that have had a cup of coffee in the majors. De Leon has an upside of 10.1 WAR over the next 6 seasons. Think of his upside as Jason Hammel or Mike Fiers. Dozier is proven commodity, the best hitting 2B in baseball against LHP which the Dodgers were the worst in baseball against, and you know that even if he has a bad year he is going to put up a 3.3 WAR. Dozier is projected to put up an 8.2 WAR over the next 2 seasons.
Would you trade Hammel and a couple of prospects for Dozier? You bet.
The Dodgers want a straight up trade of De Leon for Dozier. The Twins would have to be crazy to give up Dozier for a guy that has an upside potential of a #3-#4 starter. Think Jason Hammel.
Fangraphs has his likely outcome as a 3/4. That is not if everything goes right, that’s likely outcome. Where are you seeing 3/4 as a ceiling?
I would take Dozier for DeLeon…that’s my point…the Twins want more, which they will get but they want a lot more…we have plenty of prospects to make something work but as we have proved before we won’t overpay and mortgage our future
And to be honest a sold year of Hammel or Fiers wouldn’t look that bad in our rotation this year considering how unhealthy we were last year…when we won the NL West…the division that the Padres are in
He’s not top 10 but the fact that he is a top MiLB prospect and he’s only the 4th best prospect in the Dodgers system (Fangraphs) says something right there…the Twins could take DeLeon and 2-3 other prospects not named Bellinger or Alvarez and still have a very solid package to work with
Agree somewhat…but Im not sure an early season slump indicates regression. In fact, at that point Id expect a bounce back. Never fails..every year some players slump…then they catch fire and their end stats end up being within their normal range.
and then there is the andrew mccutchen scenario where a player has a terrible first half and his second half isn’t good enough to stop him from a 40 point drop in his wrc+. You can always find examples of both sides of the coin
Yeah that does seem to be par for the course…it wouldn’t add any type of bargaining power to assume that he will bounce back but you’re right the good ones always seem to
Lmao he’s not a top 3 prospect on his team because we have the strongest farm system in baseball. He was ranked around 20th last year…..
Longenhagen of Fangraphs said “I think DeLeon will be a solid No. 3 or 4 starter.” The most likely outcome was a 4-7 WAR over the next 6 seasons. The Katoh projections for De Leon was a 10.1 WAR over the next 6 season. In the Handbook, Bill James said he has a ceiling of a #3 starter and projected him to put up a 10 WAR prior to free agency. Sickels of Minor League Ball said in his 2016 Baseball Prospect Book that De Leon has the look of a #3 starter if his slider can continue to progress. Keith Law said that De Leon projects as a #4 starter. Go to Baseball America and Baseball Prospectus and read their pieces on him.
katoh+ projections are from chris mitchell and not eric. Read the primers of these posts
I think, project, has the look…not exactly terms that set someone’s career trajectory in stone
It is embarrassing to say that a damn good 40 homer second baseman, with no one to protect him in the lineup, is not worth 2 minor leaguers to you guys
Superstars in baseball need to bat over .268
His OPS was..886 with good defense and base running, he’s under contract for two more years. De Leon has never pitched deep into a season and has durability concerns. He is not a head line piece, Dodgers fans are being ridiculous.
Every single prospect in baseball has some kind of issue then. Its the minor leauges for a reason, your not there to blow out your arm and pitch a ton of innings. Its for development. Dodgers dont need to trade de leon to fill their 2B need.
DeLeon is a headline piece in a trade for Brian Dozier…with someone like Chris Sale he’d be a second or third piece…I hope the Dodgers stand pat
Your in the minors because your not good enough to be in the majors and you need to prove something. De Leon has proved he can throw a 120 innings so far. Very Impressive lol
Batting average is not a good indication of offensive talent for an individual player. OPS is what you need to be looking at. Where did Dozier rank among 2B last season? #4 Better yet, where did he rank against LHP where the Dodgers ranked dead last in baseball last season? #1.
Im not ranking his overall hitting ability on BA however to be labeled a superstar you need have a high BA. All of todays superstars do
so bryce harper not a super star? adam jones? george springer?
No. Adam jones and geroger springer are not superstars. Harper is, but he is a very unique case.
Stars yes…superstars not entirely…Harper is hyped as a superstar but he can also be streaky…Machado is more of a “super” star than Harper
Or you can look at the other numbers that are more important and realize he’s amazing
JD we dont need to get into this whole deal again but please explain why all the bonified MLB superstars have good batting averages? If you start calling brain dozier a superstar then it devalues the whole term and makes sample size a joke. Your telling me dozier is on the same caliber as trout, bryant, altuve , betts seager ect?
Realistically only Trout and Altuve in my mind are superstars on that list…you need to do something for a few seasons to qualify for “super” star status in my book
Superstar? Rogers Hornsby? Joe Morgan? Jackie Robinson? REALLY? Dozier has been an all star ONCE in his career. He’s a nice player but let’s not go overboard. And maybe DeLeon might only be a 3=5 starter, but so what? Teams NEED pitchers to fill those roles and eat up innings. I would think it wise for LA to back off anything more for Dozier unless the Dodgers have more starters coming up thru the system.
No surprise here at all really, except the little blurb about the Twins potentially being interested in Jose Bautistia. What?!
I tend to see this a posturing in yet another effort to raise the offers for Dozier…if his price comes down, maybe…if not like I said I think this is smoke and mirrors
I don’t. The twins said before offers ever came in that nobody is off limits but they want to keep dozier – but would move him if Wowed. There’s no reason for them to feel obligated to move him at all so I don’t think it’s posturing I think it’s exactly what they said. Giving Dozier an answer
The Rays make a ton of sense with Logan Forsythe
Brad Miller could play 2nd – & they could sign Trumbo
or some other 1st baseman.
This Dozier trade is getting drawn out. I can only assume Dozier is eager for a resolution, one way or another. Twins have taken an odd approach on this matter, seems an awfully public manner to trade a top talent.
The Twins have all the leverage. Dozier is really the only impact 2nd baseman on the market. If the Dodgers don’t meet their asking price Minnesota could switch directions, sign a couple power bats and make a run for a wild card. The Dodgers only have one direction–World Series or bust.
We’re not World Series or bust…we have a lot of young controllable players and a solid farm system…we are going to be in the hunt for a while, especially if we don’t start panicking and throwing all of our prospects at every shiny new toy that becomes available
I do not understand where the idea that the dodgers are in a short window comes from. They have a solid team, solid farm, and a massive resource pool. They are going to be one of the better teams in the nl for the foreseeable future.
It seems to be a recurring theme with some of the commenters on here
Yeah, I don’t get it. I’m not even a dodgers fan. I’m a cubs fan, and I see them as the team that is likely to go up against the cubs for the next few years.
Yeah I’m a Dodgers fan and I see the Cubs as our most formidable opponent for the next handful of seasons as well…Theo has done a wonderful job, I just hope that we can stay the course and not overpay with our young assets and if we do make a move it’s as calculated as you guys adding Chapman at the deadline
I think what was meant by World Series or bust is that just like the Yankees until about 3 yrs ago. If you don’t win the World Series your season was a failure, the mentality that only certain teams can have (Yankees Red Sox dodgers, cubs now). They expect nothing short of a World Series trophy otherwise the season was a bust. I don’t think it was a longevity slam on the dodgers, which would be ridiculous
The Dodgers haven’t won a WS in almost 30 years (heck, the Twins have won a WS more recently than the Dodgers–let that sink in). Their chief rival the Giants have won three in the past 7 years.. The Dodgers have the highest payroll in baseball. You don’t think they’re not feeling the pressure to win now?
Aside from Ian Kinsler and Logan Forsythe and Brandon Phillips, you’re right, there are no other 2Bs being marketed.
Although, Forsythe isn’t being as actively marketed as the others. He probably belongs in a different category.
Outside of Phillips and Kinsler having full no trade clauses (and Phillips already exercising his), you’re right.
This is cole hamels all over again. Dodgers wont budge and will find someone to play 2B and keep deleon
I was very upset about not getting Hamels a couple years ago…I don’t even remember what it would’ve cost now but I’m guessing it would’ve been Seager and if so, I’m so glad we didn’t make that move
A bunch of reports had them wanting Joc, Seager, and Urias. Thank goodness they didn’t budge.
Someone remind me what these remaining power hitters are expecting in FA? What would 1yr deals look like?
They’re looking like they’re going down in AAV and length
Dodgers will overpay for Dozier. They are too desperate of a franchise not too.
This front office is a fine example of not being desperate.
If they were desperate and were going to overpay, they would have got Dozier already.
I wouldn’t exactly call the Dodgers desperate…seems like they’re taking things with a very level headed approach to me
Move on Dodgers. Forsythe is a good player too. I’d go after him instead.
I dont see a forstythe deal happening. Rays think they can win and have extremely high asking prices.
Can’t wait to watch the Dodgers continue to lose against every left-handed pitcher in 2017. They were the worst in baseball last year by .21 point and it cost them a shot at the World Series. Will be hilarious to watch the $300 million team miss the World Series again because they wouldn’t trade prospects for a guy that fits their need perfectly.
I guess watching them lose against every lefty is better than watching the pads lose against everyone?
And your assumption that adding Brian Dozier will significantly change that performance isn’t based in reality.
Ryan, we both know it isn’t. The Dodgers hit a touch above the Mendoza line against LHP. They were atrocious and it’s not going to get better in 2017 without some trades or free agent signings. Dozier had the best OPS against LHP for 2B in baseball. His .900+ OPS would make a tremendous difference in that Dodger’s teams performance.
Since when is chesteraarthur’s name Ryan?
Awww is the Padres fan mad? It’s ok buddy maybe someday you guys will have a Major League Baseball team in San Diego
Don’t count on it any time soon.
Ooh, sick burn, running down the Padres. A team with literally 1/5th the payroll of the Dodgers.
and it shows
He started it lol
Mommmm! He’s touching me!
You can make it up to him by photoshopping Trea Turner into a Padres uniform.
It is going to be funny to watch the Madres get mathematical eliminated from the playoffs by June.
Not near as much fun to watch a rebuilding team out of the playoffs in June as it will be to watch the most expensive team in baseball on the golf course when the games really count. The Padres and their fans know they are going to be bad, while the Dodgers and their fans are under the delusion that they can win it all just by spending more money than anyone else. It hasn’t happened while they spent their first billion on payroll over the past 4 seasons and it won’t happen while they spend their next billion over the next 3-4 seasons.
Well we were in the NLCS last year so…
Just Another Fan
Twins are trying to ripoff the Dodgers here, 2 years of Dozier at most is worth a top 10 prospect and another piece or two. But they want a top 10 and 2-3 top 100 guys? FOH with that! Just take De Leon and a lower level player and be happy.
if u think de leon is a top 10 prospect ur going to be sour when the ranking come out and he is outside the top 25
Yeah he’s not really top 10, but I think he has a pretty legit shot to make top 25 on at least some lists.
He was 25 on BA’s mid-season list, so yeah, theoretically he’s got an opportunity to stick there. Maybe make top 20?
I agree. Dozier has a career batting average of .246. He strikes out on average of 1/4.5 AB’s and has a SO/BB ratio of 2/1. Yes, he had a great year last year but it was the FIRST time he has batted over .250 since being in the majors. You don’t give up a lot of viable prospects for that….and if the Dodgers do, then they will get what they deserve. Glad to see them not biting right now.
Dozier has been worth 17 WAR over the last four seasons. That’s basically one of the very best second basemen in baseball. Forget batting average. It’s the least informative stat. Dozier walks. He avoids double plays. He has power. He’s a good defender at second. He’s a good baserunner and a very good base stealer.
Beauty, like prospect value, is in the eye of the beholder… stop acting like your opinion means anything… leave it to the pros, you know, the people who get paid for their opinion. The Twins pros judge De Leon and whatever the Dodgers offered to not be enough for Dozier. I’m sure those pros couldn’t care less what your keen insight is. Please try not to confuse facts for your opinion.
Well this is a platform for people to discuss their opinions on baseball…to be honest I would be pretty bored if everyone just recited nothing but facts and completely agreed with each other…I don’t see anyone getting truly offended, crossing any lines or being verbally abusive so I think we’ve got it under control here without your ultimate authority on what we should be discussing
De Leon is not a top 10 prospect. He ranks 30-50.
It speaks volumes that your focus and knowledge is about the Dodgers, not the Padres…or maybe you have focus and knowledge about them too but they’re just now worth discussing
Liking the idea of the Twins keeping their good players and adding more. Remember, one year ago they had just missed the playoffs and figured to be a strong contender last year. Not much has changed insofar as they haven’t had any career ending injuries, significant departures to free agency, or key players in their prime suddenly aging into irrelevance.
So many people are of the “What have you done for me lately?” mentality but really, if they nearly made the playoffs a year ago why couldn’t they make it this season with a good addition or two?
What happened 2 years ago has very little bearing on what can happen in 2017 due to sequencing and other teams in the al getting better. They had a run differential of -4 in 2015, They won 83 games, chances are pretty good that 83 isn’t getting you a wc spot this year.
Starting to think the Twins hired the guy who fetched coffee for the Indian’s front office.
Dozier’s value is at it’s ABSOLUTE peak. Whatever best offer they have for him right now is the best offer they are going to get for him.
Right now 30 teams need their 2B and SS. In July, at least a half a dozen teams will not.
Well, fortunately, the Twins hired a guy who used to work in Texas to be their GM, so they’re good.
Lol. The mentality that “Dozier is at his peak, twins should take whatever offer they can get” is nothing but ridiculous. He’s beyond affordable. Seriously, look at this from a New perspective.
I’m curious, do twins fans think they are going to be good before dozier hits free agency? Do you think the twins should hold him for two years and let him walk? Or do you just not like the dodgers supposed offer?
Dozier is the twins best player and is really the only player the organization has that is a draw for the fans. Nobody outside of Dodgers fans thinks Deleon alone is a good offer for Dozier in this market. So the twins new brass would be absolutely insane and lose all credibility with the fans if they dealt away the city’s favorite player for a subpar offer.
I’ve said other places that mauer’s albatross contract and other salaries are coming off the books after the 2018 season, which is when Dozier is slated to become a free agent. Their current 2019 salary obligations is something like 25 million, and even only around 70 including hypothetical arbitration hearings. That’s plenty of room to make space for an extension for Dozier.
And lastly, the twins have had one of the top couple farms in baseball for years and a lot of their top prospects are on the verge of the MLB squad. If they pan out, it’s very conceivable that the twins will be competitive in 2-3 years. If an offer comes along that makes that likelihood even greater? Then yeah, sign off on the trade. If it’s one pitcher with a history of shoulder injuries and one bad callup, with many places projecting him as a middle of the order guy? No way, you keep your affordable all star 100% of the time. It would be a different story if this was a Mauer type contract we were talking about.
I’m not a Dodgers fan that is saying DeLeon is good enough alone and to be honest I’m not reading anything where someone is saying that…I’m saying that DeLeon is a centerpiece to a deal involving Dozier…say it with me…cen ter piece…the Dodgers have a deep enough farm system where they can start with DeLeon and add 2-3 other prospects and the deal would be more than acceptable for someone of Dozier’s ability…he is not a superstar, he is a very good 2B that would undoubtedly help out our club but he isn’t worth as much as the Twins seem to think they’ll get for him…I would throw in Calhoun and Brock Stewart and walk away if that isn’t good enough
Doziers numbers are definitely Star numbers. Playing for non competitive, non media friendly Minnesota doesn’t help his star meter, but averaging 4 WAR and breaking a home run record? If he were playing in a major market he’d be a star for sure.
Also I didn’t say all dodger fans think Deleon is good enough. I said ONLY dodger fans think it’s good enough. Those two things don’t mean the same thing.
It starts with De Leon, Alvarez,
It’s the plus part that is the hang up. Lux would probably get it done.
If I’m the Dodgers I hang up at the asking price for both Alvarez and DeLeon…you might be able to squeeze Alvarez without adding DeLeon but I don’t really feel like Dozier is the “super” star player that requires a ridiculous haul of prospects…a good haul, yes…ridiculous, no
The Dodgers are not saying De Leon is a centerpiece, they are saying he is the only piece. Two articles have said that the biggest roadblock to a trade was that the dodgers didn’t want to give up anything but Dd Leon, One by Bill Shaikin and the other by La Velle E Neal who said, “The sticking point between the Twins and the Dodgers, who have long been the clear primary suitor for Dozier, has been that Los Angeles is seeking a straight up, one-for-one swap of Dozier and top pitching prospect Jose De Leon.”
It’s the other pieces that would be involved that is creating the stalemate
Just like Dan Uggla, huh?
Sounds like that’s what they offered: DeLeon plus Calhoun
The Twins may decide that that “best” offer is not better than just keeping Dozier. They have 2 years to decide to move him or not. No rush.
Very well stated stymeedone.
I can see Fernandez, Hernandez, Barnes, Johnson, Taylor, and Calhoun all competing for the second base job in spring training and if none workout the dodgers make a trade deadline move
Why don’t Cards offer weaver and either Bader, dejong or similar and beat dodgers offer and put dozier at 3rd?
I think they could, depending on how the Twins FO feels about Weaver.
Would the Dodgers be amenable to trading for Brett Lawrie? If I am the White Sox I would be interested in Willie Calhoun or if that price is too steep maybe a Mitchell Hansen. Thoughts?
Theres no way on earth dodgers would trade willie calhoun for brett lawrie
Probably not he’s probably better suited at 3b. He’s not good defensively at 2nd and I’m not really sure they can count on him to stay healthy. They really wouldn’t give up much of anything significant for a guy like Lawrie. There seem to be better options.
I would see Lawrie as someone the Dodgers would sign to a minor league deal for depth purposes if the Sox cut ties with him
If Dodgers like Moncadas ability at 2B… I think they should try to snag moncada from the white sox. Throw DeLeon in with Calhoun, possibly Puig, or others. Calhoun projects better as a DH but provides the White sox with left handed power they covet. White Sox essentially end up with Kopech, DeLeon, Calhoun, Puig, or others for Sale. Dodgers get a young near ready (potential star) second baseman rather than extending kinsler or getting a two year rental. Kike, Culberson get a look to start the year.
De Leon, Ryu, Stripling, Dickson for Profar and PTBNL
How are Doziers reviews? Are they rave?
Apparently they’re about as rave as Hornsby, Kent, Sandberg, Morgan and Jackie Robinson
I am glad the Dozier trade talks are dead. He would never replicate his power numbers playing 60% of his games at Dodger Stadium, Petco, etc. And his OBP and BA are not great. He offers little to the Dodgers. There are as good, or better options.
Believe it or not, looking at the splits will tell you that dodger stadium is actually more homer friendly for right handed pull hitters than target field is. And in fact, overall the ALC and NLW are pretty similar across the board until you get to Coors field which throws everything out of whack
Chase Field with the roof open is a bit of a launching pad as well.
Who are the as good or better options that are available? If there were other options, the Dodgers would have pulled the trigger.
If the Tigers are ever going to have an opportunity to cut payroll, this is the time to get MLB ready players for Ian Kinsler.
Unfortunately for the Tigers, Kinsler has a no trade clause in place for the team that could use him the most, and, aside from Rich Hill’s deal, they haven’t been giving any money to guys in their late 30s.
I don’t think the dodgers will give up much if they have to sign him to an extension
I feel like again the twins leaked this. Most dodgers moves you never hear about until they are done. It makes sense for the twins to say they are at an impasse so they leak it is over to hurt dodgers in negotiations with Rays and Tigers
I don’t see how anyone saying a Twins/Dodgers trade is at an impasse effects other potential trades negatively. They’re unrelated in that specific way. If anything it pushes the Dodgers to start more talks with the Rays and Tigers.
Seems like the Twins/Dodgers talks are completely dead.
While Kinsler wants an extension to waive the no trade, he has said publicly that he doesn’t want to play on the West Coast. LA is on the West Coast. In addition to the extension, to trade for Kinsler the Dodgers would also have to give up a haul similar to what the Twins have been asking for and pay him $8 million more than Dozier is getting over the next two season. He has averaged a little over a 5.0 WAR over the past 3 seasons.
Forsythe is a 2nd tier player. Negative defensive value and less power than either Dozier or Kinsler. He has averaged 2.1 WAR over the past 3 seasons. His career year in 2015 came at 27 years old, most players peak from 26-28, and is not his norm.
Yeah no way the Dodgers trade for kinsler
You can’t really compare late bloomers and peak years. Forsythe is you’re definition of a late bloomer. You’re basing your argument on uzr which is decent, but I could also argue that Forsythe is a better fielder based on DRS. I can also argue that both have the same amount of above average UZR seasons 2. So really it’s a toss up considering we take into account his foot injury last year. So your argument is flawed but it fits your point. Now if you want to say Dozier is a better base runner and more power sure that’s correct. I can also argue that Forsythe’s line drive approach might produce better in the NL west where fly balls are hung up by the marine layer unless you live in CO and AZ. One player is not gong to change the fortunes if Thompson, SVS/or Ruf don’t stay healthy, Turner isn’t healthy, and Gonzo can’t show his year was an anomaly. Add onto that the Dodgers don’t need DeLeon to be anymore than his floor as a three really considering the collection of talent they have in front of him. But yes I forgot you know more about the dodgers needs than anyone else. Forsythe would be a perfect fit in this lineup.
What about first the to the dodgers for Van Slyke and Edwin rios? Or another minor league corner infielder. Rays need a right handed bat and rios is blocked at the bigs by turner and agon/bellinger.
Too much for Forsythe?
I think you’re on the right path… I think the Dodgers and Rays could put together a package that better fits both teams needs than the other options.
What about a puig Forsythe swap?
I think puig needs to get out of LA and there’s not one team that can say that he isn’t a tremendous talent and I’m sure a lot of teams would like to have him if he figures it out. Plus he lives in Florida in the offseason
I think LA should focus on a puig for a 2nd basemen swap with maybe some other moving pieces on both sides
That’s not really close. We have to take into account Forsythe’s cheap contract. SVS has little value away from LA due to injuries already in arb etc. He has more value to LA due to his LHP problems. Rios has serious questions concerning his bat speed. So it’d have to be a good package. I’d like a trade to the Rays because you’d hope they have interest in Puig seeing him as an athletic good def RF RH OF option at the least. So what maybe a Puig, Sheffield, a low affiliate flier or two with some cash. That’s even if TB is amendable or willing to move him. It looks as though they have a wave coming in Adames, Bauers, Honeywell, and Gillespie. I’d think it depends on their views on Miller and Beckham.
Minnesota would have been a good place for Puig to land along with De Leon. The obscurity in the Twin Cities would have been a good thing for the Twins and Puig.
The Twins are like the meth head who walks into a pawn shop with a $10 item that they want to get $100 for because they really need $100.
Brian Dozier isn’t going to restock your farm system. Even if you need him to do so.
The Dodgers are like a bridesmaid, close but not quite. Go ahead waste another year of Kershaw.
Talent can be added during the season you know…
Yeah because making it to the NL championship is totally a waste…pretty much the same as Dozier getting so close in Minnesota or Trout in Anaheim…you’re sounding like more of a hater than someone being real
A quick look at last year’s standings dispels the notion that Brian Dozier is the difference between winning or not.
The deal is De Leon, Alvarez, plus another. What we don’t know is the other
Dodger’s can win the NL West without Dozier, they just have zero chance of advancing. See it all depend upon which title Andrew is playing for.
Actually they have the same chance as every other playoff team. Last I checked. Definitely not zero. Unless you had Cleveland sweeping Boston and stuff.
What was the Dodgers offer
Where do you get this nonsense from? Nowhere does it say that Alvarez is included…if that were the case the deal would be long over. It gets so delusional in here…..Alvarez is probably going to be ranked our top prospect. Link where it states he’s involved please.
Does anyone know the offer the Dodgers gave the Twins tell I know that I feel this is the Twins just playing more games.
I can see the dodgers trading puig and de leon for dozier. If it doesn’t happen the dodgers are still projected to be one of the top three teams in 2017.
Starling the darling Castro would be a decent fit for the Dodgers. Only 26 with power and above Avg defense.
Yanks should inquire if dodgers have interest.
Give Yanks Jose Deleon and the second and older Sheffield brother (Jordan ) to complete the pair for Castro and a few million this year?
Make it happen Cash Ninja.
Then give second base to either Robby Refsnyder or Tyler Wade to start the year and Torres or Matteo by end of the year if they are ready!