The Cubs have made contact with the Tigers about veteran righty Justin Verlander and catcher Alex Avila, according to a report from MLB.com’s Jon Morosi (Twitter links). At this point, though, no real trade talks appear to have taken place.
While there’s little indication that anything is particularly likely to come together, it’s nevertheless notable to hear of the interest from the defending World Series champs. Chicago has struggled badly out of the gates, with its rotation representing a particular area of concern. And the team recently parted with left-handed-hitting backstop Miguel Montero, potentially making the similarly situated Avila an appealing target.
Of course, Verlander himself hasn’t exactly been pitching like an ace through the first half of the season. The Cubs sent a scout to watch his most recent outing, which represented a new low (no strikeouts, seven earned runs in 3 1/3 innings) for the longtime ace. Through 98 frames on the year, Verlander now carries a 4.96 ERA with 8.4 K/9 and 4.3 BB/9.
Never has Verlander allowed so many walks over a full season. And his swinging-strike rate (9.1%) and strikeout rate (8.4 K/9) are both down after a bounceback 2016 campaign. Still, Verlander was excellent last year and is throwing about as hard as ever (95.4 mph average fastball), so it’s not hard to see a team taking a chance. There are only two years left on his contract, though it also includes $56MM guaranteed after the conclusion of the current season. Word is he’s increasingly available, with Detroit potentially willing to keep some of the cash that’s still owed — though the veteran righty also has full veto power over any deals.
As for Avila, he has improved his stock as much as any player in baseball. Through 204 plate appearances this year, he’s mashing at a ridiculous .310/.431/.571 clip with 11 home runs and a 17.2% walk rate. While his .427 BABIP surely won’t last, Avila looks to be quite a useful piece as a left-handed-hitting catcher.
For the Cubs, young switch-hitting receiver Victor Caratini looks to be a long-term piece, but it seems the team may not quite be willing to rely on him too heavily in 2017. Avila, then, could take his place as a complement to second-year man Willson Contreras, the regular behind the dish. The youthful Contreras hasn’t been quite as impressive this year as last at the plate, perhaps increasing the team’s desire to pursue a quality veteran complement.
Hmmm, not sure if it was just poor wording but I’m not sure about that last paragraph.
I don’t see any problem with it.
I see what you mean
That entire last sentence make is awkward to understand
But, I’m guessing he is the worst catcher in the league from what I can make from it
Like my second sentence
Haha, yeah… the writing is odd and Contreras sounds like he’s playing second fiddle to the bedrock of the future – Caratini. I’m sure I sound like a snob but it paints a very inaccurate picture of the Cubs catching situation
I thought it clear that Avila was being discussed as a reserve — notice I called Contreras the regular and said he could use a complement — but I spelled it out further for you.
Contreras job safe. It’s his arm that keeps him valuable for Cubs. Between Lester and Jake, Cubs need that arm to keep opposing runners in check
Well that probably is true but he is second in the league with 35 steals against, although he has caught 18 at the same time. He also has 10 errors to lead the league so far.
While he may be the longer term answer,
bringing in a veteran to offset might not be the worst option.
It’s a smart option. No catcher ought to start more than 5 games in a typical MLB week. In addition, Joe Maddon takes advantage of his versatile roster which lately has seen Contreras in LF some when Ben Zobrist was on the disabled list and after Kyle Schwarber was demoted to AAA.
Willson Contreras is in his first full MLB season and still learning the league. Victor Caratini had zero big league experience before his promotion. He’s better served playing regularly in Iowa and can gain some additional MLB experience when rosters expand in September. A veteran backstop would be highly useful on the Cubs, particularly one who bats from the left side like Alex Avila.
I thought the article was clear as day
He is at 35% at throwing out base stealers which is very good. Your fact mentioning steals against has no merit and no point. Obviously there are many steals attempted against the Cubs. His steals against number is a reflection of that and meaningless
His steals against doesn’t matter. What does matter is his ability to punish the runners who do try to steal against him. The stats don’t lie and the stats say Contreras shines in that area.
The Tigers hold the fate of many deadline desires.
That’s actually be Kate Upton on both ends.
I for sure see the match there with Avila. Makes sense as a part time catcher/pinch hitter for the Cubs. Has a great track record for calling games and usually a solid record for throwing out runners. His bat looks solid this year. And he’s had a status around here as solid leadership type personality and comes off as pretty level headed.
Not sure about JV. Granted, at this point, I wouldn’t complain. Tiger’s window is done. Time to get what you can for you can and start the rebuild.
The Cubs Should trade for Justin Verlander after all the big part of the trade for the Cubs will be getting Kate Upton.
Would you rather have Verlander or Arrietta the next two years or neither one?
Depends on if Verlander can figure out his issue I’d assume.
But the real issue is, do you honestly believe Arrietta would take just a two year deal? Dude is 31, he’s likely looking at his last chance for a long term deal. I’m going to assume he will look for a 5 or 6 year kinda deal.
Arrietta is gone. He has no loyalty and will jump to the highest bidder. Give me verlander. And Kate.
2 years of Arrietta is not an option.
No, Arrietta would not take two years but in reality it would be counterproductive having both those guys on your roster at the same time during multi-year deals. How much luxury tax space will the Cubs have left with Verlander and Arrietta both being on the team? Would that scenario leave enough room for signing a Harper, possible Bryant or Rizzo extensions?
Actually in reality , the cubs should trade for somebody younger like archer , sonny gray or jose quintana, not verlander who is old and has a lot of money owed the next two years.
Every team wants to trade for those pitchers, and their acquisition costs are significantly higher than someone like JV.
Agreed. Verlander to take jakes place next year. And then Theo will get the younger controllable guy. Theo likes the veteran pitchers.
Correct sir, Mr Borass will be shopping him and lying about Mr Arietta’s
Verlander.
Arrieta is not taking a 2 year deal
Justin Verlander would look good in a Cubs uniform.
Looking good in one’s uniform is a top priority. If say, Orange, clashes with your hair color, avoid Houston. And so on… Project Runway: MLB
I laughed way to much at this comment.
Yeah sure 8 years ago. I’d rather have Jake Odorizzi and or chris archer. They need at least one starter and maybe 2 relievers. I guess a third catcher. They’ve had 3 catchers since 2015. Getting another one doesn’t hurt. With Contreras and caratini able to both play the outfield. It’s a good thing to have 3 catchers.
Go after Kelvin Herrera and then archer or Grey.
You realize the only guy that is available right now out of the 3 you mentioned is Gray.
Archer isn’t going anywhere. Period. Herrera will only go if the Royals decide to sell, but word is they are still considering being buyers at the deadline.
I don’t like Verlander to the Cubs as a fit, but at least he has some control after this season. But he’s no more than a #3 or 4 at this point.
yup–that’s control all right. You have a 34-35 year old who’s struggling mightily and you get to pay him $28MM a year. That’s the kind of control the captain of the Titanic had.
If Hayward goes to the Tigers I’d take Verlander.
Unless the Cubs are willing to throw a Kings ransom at the Rays, there is no way that you end up with Archer, or Jake….you can thank Maddon and the Zobrist acquisitions for that….
They signed Zobrist as a free agent so not sure your point
My guess is LA since he just bought a home in Beverly Hills plus he has the right to refuse a trade I believe.
I assume he’d accept a trade to any contender. At this point in his career the only thing he is missing is a WS title. He’s been the MVP, won a CY, thrown no hitters…
I’d bet he’d approve a trade to any contender to try and snag a WS championship before he retires.
The Cubs are a contender?
Are you that big headed yes they’re contenders.
I guess you could call them contenders. But the way they’re playing they would be lucky to even make the playoffs.
And where would Mr. Verlander fit into a Dodgers rotation?
I mean, given that everybody else in the rotation is pitching more effectively than he this season.
I agree with you. LA is the only fit. He’s krazy about Kate and LA is what fits her career. They have been drunken sailors with their payroll and they have a lot of young pieces they can move.
Any guesses as to the package the Cubs would give up?
Would Jimenez need to be included? Certainly Cease, no?
If the Cuba take on the contracts in full, I dont think they give up much.
I imagine they’re going to go into any deal protecting their pitching prospects, despite most of them being multiple years away. As for Jimenez, I think they’d be willing to part with him should they get back a pitcher with more than a year or two of control such as Gray or Archer.
Cease possibly. But not Jimenez. A few other blocked guys. Detroit throws in some cash
Cease is Kerry Wood 2.0. I think he will be a stud
No way Jimenez or Cease go in a trade for Verlander
Hayward and a prospect. Not trading a pitching prospect at this point.
If I were a team, I would avoid Justin Verlander, for age, contract, and performance purposes
Cubs are better off going after Archer , Quintana or Sonny Gray
Jimenez is too much of a stud to trade though, and I highly doubt they’d trade cease
Every team is better off trading for those pitchers. That’s not the point.
The Rangers, with Lucroy & Darvish, would be another interesting place for the Cubs to look. I keep reading where Darvish isn’t available, but the Rangers would be foolish not to see what they could get for him.
Two high profile rentals at what cost?
If the Cubs are able to secure Yu Darvish beyond 2017 I’d be OK with his acquisition for both the short and long term. Why would they surrender any of their remaining prospects for veteran catcher Jonathan Lucroy when they already have such a talented offensive and defensive backstop in Willson Contreras?
They will NOT be able to secure Darvish beyond 2018. He’s GOING to test the open market this offeeason. They couldn’t force Chapman to sign an extension last year and it’s the same way with Darvish.
Of course, you mean beyond 2017.
I wasn’t suggesting that Darvish would get an extension from the Cubs as a trade acquisition rental, only that I’d be OK with them forfeiting assets provided they signed him long term as a free agent following the season.
It was a foregone conclusion that Aroldis Chapman was strictly acquired as a rental last summer, a deal I was not enamored with at the cost of #1 prospect Gleyber Torres. I would have made a stronger push for Andrew Miller.
Once Chapman was acquired, the Cubs then ought to have pushed hard for FA closer Kenley Jansen in free agency as a way to “offset” their loss of Torres. They did not and then had to spend additional prospect currency in Jorge Soler for yet another “rental” in Wade Davis. That deal looks OK now but Soler might still pan out and could have been used an asset to help acquire a controllable quality starting pitcher.
If they trade for Darvish, signing him in the offseason wouldn’t make the trade any better. They wouldn’t be trading for multiple years of Darvish. They would be trading for two months plus the playoffs of Darvish. Period. Then they would be signing him to a multi-year deal in free agency. Period. Trading for him now is not a prerequisite to signing him in the offseason.
Kershaw makes a difference every 5 days . Baez and Jimenez everyday. Kershaw 30 mil a year those two peanuts. They could sign darvish and have darvish Baez and Jimenez for same money as Kershaw. Those 3>Kershaw
I’d have preferred Miller too, but as you’ve heard before: flags fly forever. They made a push for Kenley, but LA raised the price of poker.
If you watched Soler closely…he can hit a mistake 475 feet, but he’s awkward in almost every other phase of the game. Great trade for a team wantng to make a run at repeating.
Cubs would only go after Darvish if an extension was guaranteed at least 4 years, but no more than 5. And honestly I’d rather have 4 years with a 5th year option. No pitcher should ever get more than 5 years. It’s been proven that 6 and 7 year deals don’t work for pitchers. And lucroy for a 3rd catcher option isnt bad.
That’s baked into the risk of signing elite pitchers to long term deals. You get them at their peak/post peak and deal with the repercussions in the future.
And what reason does Darvish have to agree to that? You don’t just get to force players to sign extensions.
Imagine that, another TheWestCoastRyan post in which he overreacts to the discussion of an extension.
There is no discussion of an extension with Darvish. He WILL test free agency this winter. I love how people on here think their team’s FO can just force players to sign contracts. Cubs fans were saying the exact same thing with Aroldis Chapman a year ago and look how that turned out.
And upon looking at the comments on that article, you were one of the Cubs fans who was SO SURE Chapman wouldn’t just be a rental. Joke’s on you.
Your assuming the Cubs can’t offer him enough to get him to sign extension. 7/210 doesn’t make him sign? Aces get 7 years right?
Just saying when Johan santana was traded to the Mets it was onlu gonna happen if they worked out an extension and we all know how well that went. He didn’t even get passed 5 years. Before the Mets gave him the boot.
If the cubs want to take over the NL Central. They need a bullpen arm and a starter. They have enough talent and prospects to get a sonny Gray or Alex Cobb a pitchers with 3 or more years of control. (I’d love to have archer. The rays would probably ask for double what they got for Garza from the cubs for archer. If that is gonna happen it will be this offseason.
Agreed
1. You’re*
2. If the Cubs offer him that now that offer will still be there in the offseason and some other team might offer him possibly more.
Darvish doesn’t have to agree to that tho and there’s no reason for him to.
You’re talking about an extension, therefore there is a discussion about an extension, but hey, you tried. Moving on, not a single person has said their team’s front office can force a player to sign an extension, you just jump the gun every single time the world extension is used and say the player can’t be forced into an extension and then try and run down the original poster and anyone who agrees with them. As for Cubs fans regarding Chapman, they were saying that for what it would take (took) to get Chapman, that we’d like it to come with an extension instead of a pure rental, which you clearly still have yet to comprehend.
And since you brought it up and were SO SURE that I didn’t think Chapman wouldn’t be a rental, I didn’t even comment on the article so its pretty hard for me to be one of those Cubs fans, but hey, once again you tried and failed. So I believe that means the joke is on you? See you again on your next post about how someone is trying to force a player into an extension.
No I’m not. I’m talking about how Darvish WON’T take one. And other people may not think their team’s FO can force a player to sign an extension but there are plenty of comments where people say that they should “just sign” this player or that player, implying that they think it would be easy of that the player in question has any interest in taking one even in cases where it’s clear they don’t. With Chapman, there were tons of comments saying “Yeah, the trade is pending an extension,” suggesting trade scenarios which ended with “And Chapman signs 4 year extension” or saying “No way Theo does this without an extension.” Way more than just preferring that Chapman be more than a rental.
mlbtraderumors.com/2016/07/yankees-cubs-working-on…
csamson11
“Y’all can think what you want, but it’s hard to believe Theo & Co. would trade their top prospect for only Chapman with no agreement on a contract extension. Maybe they somehow packaged a guy like Evoldi with him or something, but I don’t see another way. Yes, a shutdown lefty is really the only thing they’re missing when everyone is healthy, but a package deal headlined by their top prospect who could very well be up next year at the earliest for the rental version of Chapman is not going to happen in my eyes.”
#getsmacked
You’re replying to comments talking about Darvish taking an extension, so yes, you are. Whether you believe he will or not, you’re still discussing it. Yet again, they aren’t saying a team can force a player to sign an extension, you evidently just need something to whine about on each thread. And again, people were hoping for an extension from Chapman as well as speculating that they were talking about an extension due to the fact that the reports made it seem like the deal would be wrapped up very soon, yet it kept dragging on. Also to be fair, they did talk about an extension, it was just shot down by Chapman’s camp.
As for my comment, fair enough. I didn’t look at that article so congratulations on wasting more time than I did. I didn’t see them making the move for Chapman straight up, meaning without another piece coming with him, unless it had an extension tied to it. But like I said above, that doesn’t mean I thought the Cubs/Yankees could force him to sign an extension. Also, its pretty hard to #getsmacked by someone who up votes each of their comments, but whatever you need to tell yourself. Like I said, see you on your next post whining about an extension supposedly being forced on a player.
There is no believing Darvish will or won’t take an extension. He just won’t. End of story. Even if they aren’t explicitly saying that you can force a player to sign with you they are posting comments saying their team should “just sign” or “just extend” this guy or that guy, completely forgetting that he player has to agree to any contract.
I don’t blame Cubs fans for wanting Chapman to take an extension. They had a lot to gain by extending him. But all the reasons why they would want him to extend are reasons why Chapman and his camp would not want to do that, which is precisely why they shot down extension talks. Theo and Co. were wasting their time trying to do that and it’s the same way with Darvish.
Pressure to end a 108-year championship drought is the reason why they traded what they did for two months of Chapman and nothing else. It should have been obvious to you and everyone that if Chapman had any intention of taking an extension it would have happened long before the Cubs traded for him. It was precisely the reason why the Yankees made him available in the first place.
You were also upvoting your own comments and downvoting mine so…
I guess it never hurts to ask, but if the answer involves Happ or Eloy and taking most of Verlander’s salary then I’d say no thanks.
Happ isnt gonna get traded unless it gets the cubs something spectacular.
Some Tigers trades that can be taken seriously or not.
JD and JV to LA for Verdugo (OF), Buehler(RHP), Farmer(C) and Toles (OF)
Justin Wilson to DC for
Garcia (SS) and Baez (RHP)
Avila to Cubs for
Steele (LHP)
Kinsler to Cardinals for
Plummer (OF) and Woodford (RHP)
Upton and Iglesias to Arizona for
Young (LHP) and Leyba (SS)
V-Mart to literally anyone who would be stupid enough to take him for literally anything that can play baseball
Zimmermann to Milwaukee for
Gatewood (1B) and Suter (LHP)
Not all realistic or necessary. Some are probably Homer-esque. Just spitballing.
-Thats an awful lot of prospect capital for a rental and a big contract.
-The Wilson deal seems pretty fine
-Avila is kinda whatever, so that deal is fine
-Kinsler could probably pull more pure value if you went for just one big piece, rather than two solid ones.
-That JUp/Iggy deal is awful for the Tigers, even if you aren’t a fan of Upton’s contract.
-No one is trading for Zimmermann, let alone giving up value.
-No one is touching VMart
All fair assessments. Just desperate to go into a fire sale for whatever they can get as soon as possible.
Honestly, if the Tigers can move all of those players then Avilia is a genius. Verlander with his contract should basically be a salary dump. JD should yield a good prospect. Kinsler – maybe 1 throw-away prospect (35 year old .734 OPS hitter). Zimmerman is another pure salary dump – $74 million in contractual liability for a terrible pitcher.
Many of these contracts would be outrageous even if the player were playing well.
If the Tigers were to package Verlander, Avila, and Justin Wilson, while also paying a portion of JV’s salary, would they have any chance at landing Eloy Jimenez?
No
I think so, it takes care of a bunch of needs and you get a legit shot at going back to back. No one else in their division is taking it over. Detroit would have to eat a bunch of the Verlander contract IMO.
Ya the Tigers would need to eat a significant amount of money to give him surplus value.
Its the cubs wouldnt suprise anyone
Its the Cubs so it would be a surprise as Theo leads the smartest FO in baseball and he is not dealing Jimenez for that package
Detroit has a thin farm system. I just don’t see them trading 3 for 1. They need multiple players back.
Cubs acquiring Verlander would not be a good move. A lot of money for two years when you have your young players arbitration eligible. And losing Arrieta and Lackey. Plus Verlander seems on decline.
The Cubs are going to be inquiring about numerous pitchers from many different teams this trade deadline season. Ultimately, the Cubs are going to have to decide when they want to give up some of their young high value assets to acquire young, controllable top end starting pitching. It is not a matter of if, but rather when. It is going to happen and it will be either at this deadline or during this offseason. I suspect they won’t like the price (and will be gun shy after the Torres trade) and will hold off making their big move(s) for young controllable starter(s) in the winter. I still see the Cubs making moves at the deadline, but strictly rentals.
Theo said in an interview last week they would not trade for any rentals.
Why would Torres trade make them gun shy? That is what it takes to get a Closer the caliber of Chapman. They knew what they gave up. They knew they would not resign Chapman. They won a World Series.
Ultimately they won the glayber Torres trade. World series over TJS for Torres none throwing arm. They could have gotten more but I’ll take the world series over anything. And.torres was blocked by Russell Baez and Bryant if they wanted to move.him in the infield.
Please stop acting like trading for chapman was what won them a world series. Did he help? Probably, but it wasn’t “Torres for a world series”
Chapman was the last brick on the load and Maddon worked him like a rented mule. He made the pen so much deeper and sort of gave a sense of relief to the whole squad…pretty good chance it was game over when he came in with a lead.
Sorry Chester but no Chapman no world series title
All I know is if the Cubs had lost game 7 Chapman would have been the scapegoat because he allowed that HR to Rajai Davis. But at the end of the day they won and everyone else lost so I don’t think they would do anything different in hindsight.
There was so many mishaps in game 7. Maddon had some major brass balls to send Chapman out into the 9th inning. There was zero reason to take out Hendricks he was doing just fine with a 3 run lead.
Don’t forget Maddon’s mishandling of a worn out Aroldis Chapman in games #6 and #7. Was it really necessary for Maddon to bring in his flame throwing closer in the 7th inning of game #6 with a 5-run lead and let him pitch through the 8th knowing the Cubs would still need to win the next night in Cleveland?
The Torres trade won them the world series! Why would it make them gunshy? They knew what they were trading away
Oh come on you mean when strop and rondon went on DL we couldn’t have still won with Richard and Cahill closing out games? Game 4 against Giants and game 6 against Dodgers Strop and Rondon wouldn’t have shut them down:-)
As cards fan I’d love for Cubs to get verlander. It’s got disaster written all over it. Please give up a top prospect for him. Looks like an Alfonso Soriano deal part two. Go get him cubbies
Alphonso Soriano did nothing but produce for the Cubs. I would like to have him leading off and playing LF this year.
Both of you are wack.
Ah the good old days when the Cards were good and the Cubs not.
Why would they go for a Verlander? They
Don’t need another underperforming expensive vet
they need somebody young, Archer , Gray , Quintana
The Cubs main issue is the pathetic offense.
When Hendrix returns, Montgomery can go back to bullpen where they need a LHer and Rondon can go finish the season in Philly, Miami, cincy or some other team that would rather improve their draft position than win.
The Cubs main issue in 2017 is their starting rotation, followed by an inconsistent offense that can’t hit with runners in scoring position and finally a dramatic fall in defense from a year ago. The last two issues are more fixable with a young talented core of position players along with a couple of dependable veterans returning from the disabled list.
A more sensibly constructed batting order by Joe Maddon might also go a long way toward helping their offense improve. Imo, he’s not putting his players in their best lineup spots in order to maximize production. As examples, Kyle Schwarber should never have been asked to leadoff, Ben Zobrist is better served in the #2 role than as a cleanup hitter and the notion of hitting the pitcher 8th more often than not is ludicrous.
There has been ample research to show that batting order doesn’t make a huge difference.
The proof is in the pudding and Joe Maddon’s batting orders this season are spotted d!ck.
That’s not how proof works.
Well, well done indeed!
Well said
“dramatic fall in defense” is a bit ….well..dramatic. @016 was near historic defense and was not repeatable. They still play very good defense..you lineup statements are also debatable.
Agreed. Everyone is talking about pitching when the hitting has declined the most.
Last year the Cubs were first in mlb in team pitching and 9th in hitting. As of 2 weeks ago were 9th in pitching and 19th in hitting.
Over the last 2 weeks the pitching is improving and the hitting is getting worst. Injuries are part of this but Bryzzo and Schwarbs are not meeting expectations yet. Hope for a big second half.
Joe Maddon has enough trouble managing his pitching staff as is. Adding an aging and less productive starter like Justin Verlander to a veteran rotation already in decline is a recipe for disaster.
What could possibly prompt the Cubs front office to add an expensive and deteriorating Verlander when they are more than ready to subtract waning impending free agent starters Jake Arrieta and John Lackey at the conclusion of the 2017 season?
The Cub brass purposely focused on drafting bats rather than arms during their rebuild that resulted in a World Series title last year. They need to begin supplementing those graduated position players with younger controllable quality starting pitchers as the trade deadline approaches. The arms they finally began collecting this past June will likely take years before becoming impacting MLB pitchers. Their two premium pitching prospects from earlier drafts, Dylan Cease (2014-domestic) and Oscar De La Cruz (2012-international) have yet to advance beyond A ball.
Cubs just won a World Series. They should be willing to go all in to go back to back. If Verlander is their answer, go for it.
Except he’s not their answer.
He is not the answer
Verlander would probably have a 2.00 ERA in the trash NL. Free outs because the pitcher hits and theres always one or two “defense only” guys too. The DH has made the AL the superior product. Pitchers have to get more real hitters out and in turn that makes them better and hitters get better in the AL because of these better pitchers. Its why almost all lifetime AL guys who go to the NL have great years even if their careers in the AL were trending downwards.
It’s a wonder they still allow National League teams to participate in the World Series and All-Star Game.
LOL
The AL v NL record does cause one to make certain deductions about the gap in talent across leagues.
There could be some gap in overall quality, but my hypothesis would be it’s related much more to resource imbalance than to players improving by facing stiffer competition at the MLB level — particularly given that players move freely between the leagues.
Hawk Harrelson, is that you? Mercy!
True. And the Cubs second half schedule is much easier than first half has been.
I just don’t see it happening. Cubs need to direct their attention elsewhere. If they wanna go big on a rental, make a pitch for Darvish. Verlander will only deliver uneven results which the Cubs are already getting from most of their starters.
If the cubs go after a rental , maybe darvish or alex cobb would be the answer
Thats exactly what the cubs need another 34 year old pitcher whos best days are behind him
Cubs fans are so against the idea of trading jimenez/schwarber. But in reality thats what it is gonna take for the cubs to aquire a pitcher of Archer/Quintana caliber. And thats what the cubs need and ultimately is what they will end up doing
If for Archer , rays would ask for Baez or Happ plus Jiminez and others
Baez is untouchable. He’s not going anywhere. The cubs have even talent in their farm to not touch the 25 man roster. If anyone asks for Baez Theo and jed hang up the millisecond they say javy…
Baez untouchable lol no player is untouchable….. maybe Trout…but as for the cubs the the only players they would not trade is Bryant and Rizzo
You think if the dodgers called up theo and said Kershaw for Jimenez and baez hes gonna hang up the phone?….Theo could only dream
Gretzky got traded. Nobody is safe.
Maybe so. You just don’t trade a guy like javy baez. He’s gonna be Zobrists replacement full time in two years. If anything you give him a raise and an extension. There isnt single player or even multiplayers you can get worth for Javier Baez. Trade Happ If you trade anyone. Trading Baez would turn to a Sammy Sosa for George Bell. You just don’t do it.
Every time it had to do with a contract dispute or.bad overall team performance.
The untouchables for the cubs are their core players. Bryant Rizzo Baez Russell Contreras. And well Zobrist because he has a no trade for his first 3 years with the cubs.
Baez is not untouchable. He still strikes out to much. And makes the tough plays in field but to many whiffs on the routine plays.
Short of a July meltdown, the Rays are not selling at the non-waiver deadline. Even with one, they would have to be blown away with an offer for Chris Archer.
In addition, the Cub front office has suggested they will not trade any assets off of their active roster which also figures to include Kyle Schwarber come July 31st. That would also make the likes of Javier Baez, Ian Happ and Albert Almora off limits as each of them ought to be. Baez in particular is going nowhere as the only viable SS on the Cubs roster besides troubled Addison Russell.
Why would they trade Almora in the first place? He’s their future CF.
Verlander was the Cy Young runner up last year. Based on advanced metrics, he should have won it. No loss in velocity this year. The market will determine his worth, but it’s pretty crazy to call him declining or aging three months into the next season. He is only 34. It’s just how baseball is sometimes.
I would just call him ineffective, and leave to others to theorize about why.
Here’s a comp for you. Last season, Zack Grienke was pretty awful. I figured he was a good candidate to bounce back this season, and so he has. But if Grienke had been available in trade last year, no contender would have touched him with a ten-foot barge pole, not so much because of how much he’d cost them, but because they’d need him to be effective over the next few months, not next year. August and September are not a good time to be trying to fix a pitcher who you hope to carry into the postseason at the top of the rotation.
I’m really tired of the whole “Verlander should have won CY Young last year.” There were 3 pitchers that had arguments to win the award and each argument you cvould make a counter about a different pitcher. Porcello won because of 2 reasons. The first is there was no clear winner, the second is Porcello was the least unpopular to win which is ultimately the point of a ranking voting system.
Want to complain about a Cy Young vote? Try 2005 AL, Colon won despite Santana having better stats almost across the board except for wins.
where’s the pimp my ride meme? “yo dawg, I heard you like old overpaid starters on the downside of their career, so I got you more old overpaid starters to go with your entire staff of old overpaid starters”
LOL justin verlander who would want him? What just because he has a hot girlfriend? Give me a break this guy is not what he was at all. Five six years ago he was a stud now hes an arrogant jerk making too much money who’s a shell of himself. I would take avila though that guy is good but i do think hes taking PEDs.
He’s also your should be 2016 CY young winner
Maybe the Cubs since they called about him.
My solution for the cubs: Make a trade for Alex Avila (perhaps they take 2 mid-tier prospects for him : Chesny Young and Pierce Johnson) Trade for a starter : Chris Archer is best option imo but Gray, Quintana and Cole are all good TOR arms I like too. We trade Jeimer Candelario and Ian Happ plus a mid tier prospect or two for Archer and the package gets smaller for each other player (Ex: if they went for grey they take a player or 2 out) they then have Eddie Butler and John Lackey battle it out the rest of July to see who gets last rotation spot. Whoever puts up the better numbers stays in rotation and the other goes to the bullpen. As for another bullpen piece, I think their bullpen is good right now, but if needed it could be solved internally. For lead off hitter the cubs need to try Heyward when he gets healthy, he seems to be a changed hitter from last season and could be the solution to their lead off woes.
Unless you consider Jimenez a mid tier prospect, there is no way that package is strong enough for Archer. Maybe that offer is enough for Sonny Gray, but I would have a hard time seeing the Cubs get Quintana or Archer without Jimenez being included.
The Tigers can still make a charge. They have the players but they are so lacking in fundamentals, they are just a bunch of individuals playing to be noticed for their personal performance. They must get a new Manager. No matter who they acquire, the results will always be the same…. and they won’t acquire a new Manager so they will remain in last place until they do.
Justin Verlander would perform significantly better with a more rangy and fundamentally sound defense playing behind him. Although he is 34, he is in good shape and not declining. Even though Jose Quintana is a comparable and possibly a slightly better pitcher at this time than Verlander, the White Sox will ask for an unrealistic return to acquire him. The advantage that Verlander has is that his contract is so large, the Tigers asking price will be fair. Also, he is not a rental. The ideal teams for Verlander would be the 1) Dodgers, 2) Cubs 3) Yankees.
The ideal team for Alex Avila and Justin Wilson to end up is the Nationals. The Nats need a backup C and a CL and these two are the best possible option in MLB. They both make an immediate impact to that team. The cost may be high, however.
Nick Castellanos may work for the BoSox but, he’s not a typical DD type player. No contending team needs corner OFs or a 2B at this time.
The Tigers might take Greg Bird, Tyler Austin or Dustin Fowler or some other injured young player with high upside from any team straight up for Miguel Cabrera.
I’ll talk with you directly. We’re both on a similar page, though on the opposite side.
My guess is, Detroit wants to deal Verlander to get him off the books for 2018. Is that about right?
If so, how many “white knight” teams do you see that would be willing to swing that ‘if the offer is right’?
Presumably the list above.
Talk to you soon.
Tigers should try to swing a deal with Boston sending Verlander for Price with a player or two added in either way. Verlander has essentially worn out his welcome in Detroit (at least with upper management) and Price is obviously unhappy in Boston. Sox could use another righty (since they have Sale, Pomeranz and E-Rod from the left side). Both are grossly overpaid. And Kate may like swapping Detroit for Boston. Maybe her and Giselle can go shopping together.
What has JV done that he has worn out his welcome? He and Cabrera are the most popular players on the team.
What about Dylan Cease for Verlander, Avila and cash to offset contract? Seem fair? Tigers get relief from the contract and an intriguing pitcher. Cubs get a credible rotation arm, their backup catcher and only give up one prospect in doing so.
Is it an understatement to say that this upcoming trade deadline is HUGE for the Tigers and there future success? I’m intrigued by what they can pull off.
How many teams do you think would be willing to pay full freight for Verlander in 2018?
The question not being asked.
Verlander and Castellanos to Boston for Price, Panda and a prospect. Price is still better than Verlander. Panda can use a change of scenery. The prospect could maybe offset the salary take, although maybe the Sox could pay some of Price’s ransom.
Why would Detroit do that?
If the entire goal from trading Verlander is to salary dump in 2018, why do they want to take on salaries?
The entire goal is to lower payroll while adding young talent. You don’t trade the face of the franchise as a salary dump.
Teams don’t rebuild by taking on contracts of older players in decline like Price and Sandoval. On scale of 1-10, this certainly rates as a 1.
Tim is definitely asking the right question. The other elephant in the room is that The Tigers want to clear salary, and Justin is a lot of salary, but he’s also the homegrown face of the team and a 1st ballot HOF player. With a new TV deal coming and attendance headed in the wrong direction they might be afraid to pull the trigger unless it looks like they won the trade.
Tigers 2018 lineup and SP
C James McCann
1B Miguel Cabrera
2B ?
3B Nicholas Castellanos
SS ?
LF ?
CF ?
RF ?
DH Victor Martinez
Michael Fulmer
Matt Boyd
Daniel Norris
?
?
Looking at your list, I just realized Victor Martinez is signed through 2018. I thought he was gone after 2017.
Although I stated above that the Dodgers, Cubs or Yankees could take on Justin Verlander’s salary, I doubt anyone does. That contract is just too heavy for too long.
Also, I think Justin Upton will stay. His contract is as good as he’ll ever find elsewhere on the market.
Its hard to say what the 2018 Tigers look like next season. As it stands, the entire pitching staff is nearly the same. Manny Machado and Mikie Mahtook will be starters next season.
Allan Trammel was the worst manager in the history of MLB. Brad Ausmus is only slightly better. I liked them both as players but, not as Managers.
I have heard rumblings that Upton could opt out of the rest of the contract and could get more on the open market. He has had a very good year.
Also only 2 more years of Verlander which is not long at all. Dixon Machado is who I would assume you are talking about. The other spots are really up in the air. Dixon Machado possibly, Mahtook possibly.
My point being is that the starters are very much up in the air for next year.
the Yankees would never consider Verlander….first of all they can count and he has well over 2000 innings on that arm, and secondly and most prominently, his salary is ridiculous and they are pledged to get under the salary cap next year.
Thank you for the nugget.
That crosses the Yankees off the White Knight list.
Verlander to the Cubs makes all the sense in the world. In one circumstance, and one circumstance only.
If the Cubs pay his full freight in 2018, and that is their main contribution in the swap.
If the Tigers take a “rather lesser prospect” to get the Cubs to gobble all 29 in 2018, only to get “something in return” beyond that, it makes perfect sense.
However, Verlander for Cease/Clifton/Eloy/Alzolay/etc makes no sense.
The reason you’re hearing the Cubs linked to Verlander is so few teams are willing to give him $29 million next year.
Think of it as the Touki Toussaint trade on stanozolol.
Then, the Tigers can get under the cap in 2018. Which is why they want to trade Verlander.
The Tigers are considering trading JV because they do not have a lot with trade value. He has trade value. They have too many under performers and no trade clauses. He has indicated he will consider a trade. Teams expecting a salary dump will be disappointed. You do not salary dump the face of the franchise. It would be like Boston salary dumping Pedroia, as he gets older.
I strongly believe Verlander will benefit going to the NL.
A .500 record is “struggling badly”?
If you mention anything about the Cubs trading Jimenez/Schwarber/Baez…etc. Then Cubs fans are gonna go Nuts. Its either no way….hes untouchable….or thats the next Babe Ruth
Jimenez or Beaz? Yes. I’d rather trade Kyle Schwarber anyday!! I prefer to trade him. He seems to carry more value and would spare us other assets for a guy that is going to K a ton and play poor defense. Yes please trade him while he actually has some value.
Any chance Justin Wilson is part of this deal?