Some rumblings from around the NL Central…
- The Cardinals were linked to Rays closer Alex Colome in trade rumors earlier this winter, though two sources tell Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch that the team’s interest in Colome was “overstated.” Chris Archer seems to be the Cards’ top target in regards to trade talks with the Rays.
- Cardinals GM John Mozeliak told Goold and other reporters that he is still “kicking tires” on some other bullpen options but he is overall comfortable going into the season with Luke Gregerson as the top closer option. This could be some gamesmanship on Mozeliak’s part given that St. Louis has been exploring several relief options both before and after they signed Gregerson, though Gregerson collected 31 saves as recently as 2015 when he pitched for Houston. In terms of other available relievers, the Cardinals have “at most, tempered” interest in Greg Holland. Beyond the veteran Gregerson, the Cards also have several young arms in the pen and in the upper minors that could eventually factor into the ninth-inning mix. Goold notes that hard-throwing righty prospect Jordan Hicks has drawn trade interest from other teams.
- Now that Gerrit Cole has been traded, teams who have talked deals with the Pirates believe that the Bucs could now be more open to moving Andrew McCutchen, ESPN’s Jerry Crasnick writes (Twitter links). Pittsburgh has had “ongoing dialogue” about McCutchen with multiple teams, including the Giants. One potential side effect of increased trade talks involving McCutchen (and the Marlins’ Christian Yelich) is that it could extend the lack of activity on the free agent outfielder front.
- If the Pirates did deal McCutchen, ESPN.com’s Buster Olney (Twitter links) isn’t sure how much the Bucs could get back, based on the relatively lacking returns other teams have recently gotten in trades for players in their final year before free agency. Olney opines that the Pirates could get more young talent back in a trade by offering to cover some of the $14.75MM owed to McCutchen in 2018.
- It doesn’t appear as though Joe Maddon and the Cubs have any talks about an extension, though the manager said during this weekend’s Cubs Convention (as reported by The Athletic’s Patrick Mooney) that he doesn’t “ever try to strike up those kind of conversations….I believe if we take care of our own business properly, that’s the kind of stuff that takes care of itself. I’ve always relied on that thought. So I’m not concerned about that. I am a Cub right now. And I want to be a Cub for many years to come.” Maddon is under contract through the 2019 season, so there isn’t any immediate need for either side to press for extension negotiations already. Maddon’s comments also make it seem as if he has no plans to retire anytime soon, which is notable given that he turns 64 next month.
Padres, Giants and Yankees should consider a 3 team trade w Ellsbury going to Giants (only team he’d waive his NTC) Frazier going to the Padres while Padres eating significant Ellsbury money. Yankees get a decent prospect back from Padres and/or Giants.
Decent prospect? You going need more than that. Because the Yankees needs a good pitcher in return
Yankees wont get a decent prospect for Ellsbury. Even if they tie him to Clint Fraizer
Randy Miller Pirates fan Posts: You can’t trade Ellsbury he is worthless and a negative with humongus contract and his playing days are OVER ; however TRADE Pirates Tyler Glasnow and Josh Harrison 4 Yankees Clint Frazier and Dellin Betances Deal?… I cant wait 4 Summer and Stadium dogs with brown mustard and a coke ! I can eat 5 hotdogs during a game if i dont drink a lot of soda. Go Pirates
Ellsbury is a slightly better than avg OF. The issue with him is the contract.
Frazier is a free agent so I am not sure how he can be included in a trade???
Clint, not Todd.
Who? Clint Eastwood?
Clinr
Clint Frazier
Clint you idiot.
Please try to pay attention.
Clint frazier, not todd frazier.
My Pirates are checking in on 3b Todd Frazier to help rookie 3b Colin Moran this way The Pirates can keep Colin Moran in minors till end of June and have 6 full years of control strating in 2019 When Colin Moran comes up Todd would be a good off the bench guy and PH for the Wild Card destined Pirates Pirates just saved 7 million this year and 10 million for next year by trading Gerrit Cole Saving 17 million can go to signing Todd Frazier!
I highly doubt that The Pirates would sign Todd Frazier, and I also doubt that Frazier would be ok with a bench role. Plus, they currentyl have other options in Freese, and Rodriguez right now.
Pirates are not gonna sign Frazier! They are heading toward a rebuild
How sad to wait for a guy like Moran
Randy Miller Pirates Fan Posts Hi fellow Pirates fan mlb225 I agree with you Forget Todd Frazier Pirates should go get the lefty *Jamie Garcia 3 years @ 27 million dollars
Damn y’all really roasted him for a simple mistake.
The Yankees are not giving up Frazier in a deal to offset salary.
Then the yankees keep ellsbury and his 21 mill salary preventing them from signing someone significant this off season and next off season.
If you actually believe the Yankees really care about getting below the luxury tax, then you’re gullible. If they really wanted to get below the luxury tax, they wouldn’t be linked to just about every major available name on the market even after acquiring Stanton.
Every big name on the market isnt getting offers they thought theyd get….or have you not noticed majority of the big names havent signed yet? Darvish arrieta hosmer moustakas etc no deals.
If the yankees could get darvish below market value and under 20 aav theyd do so. 20 or over they wouldnt.
See how that works given the market dynamics? I suggest you pay attention better man.
They are linked to every major player in order to hike up player offers from other teams!
I’m not sure this works:
SF gives up Andrew Suarez, get Ellsbury at around $4M a year — would they trade a prospect of that level? Just give $12M to Jarrod Dyson and keep the prospect.
SD essentially pays $50M for 7 years of Clint Frazier, in addition to what Frazier will earn. — This part seems the lightest. I can see where you are coming from in the way they’d basically be “buying” Yankee prospects this way, but is Frazier worth that much by himself? I’d think Adams would have to be in this deal too for this to balance out.
Yankees give up Frazier, possibly Adams, and Ellsbury’s contract, get Suarez, get out of the $63M — at this point Yankees fans would probably rather the team just eat the Ellsbury contract, $63M is pennies to the evil empire anyway.
Pedres2091ha Randy Miller here Pirates fan Posts: How about Tyler Glasnow 4 Clint Frazier?
Why would the Giants do that? Why would the Padres want to pay a division rival $22 million a year for a few more seasons, just to acquire a prospect who hasn’t proven anything in the big leagues yet? And they also send a decent prospect to the Yankees?
I get the Yankee fans want to dump Ellsbury on someone, but that’s a very unmovable contract for a mediocre player at best. They can sign Dyson, who is now a better player and certainly better defensively, for a couple million and not give up anything, and I don’t even think it would cost draft picks. Correct me if I’m wrong…
You’re not wrong. But I’m not talking about eating all of Ellsburys salary. Whatever they determine Frazier’s value is. $25 mil for 5 years? maybe they dont give up a prospect, or maybe just a lottery pick. I think the three way trade would make sense. I’m not a GM so I wouldnt know all players/money involved but the idea is fun.
A fantasy contract.is there an app for that?
Redres2019 you are really brain deadora kid ENOUGH SAID ABOUT YOUR SICK STUPID AZZ NO ONE WATS ELLSBURY HE IS AN OLD CREEP AND AND WITH AN ALBOTROSS AROUND HIS NECK THAT CONTRACT WILL KEEP HIM WITH YANKEES FOREVER UNLESS THE YANKS EAT THAT TERRIBLE CONTRACT WOW OMG and the yankees deserve it 4 Overpaying
Are you stoned?
Mozeliak is the President of Baseball Operations. Mike Girsch is the GM of the Cardinals.
Girsch is just a body in the front office. Mozeilak is really the gm and head of operations.
No he is not really the GM but he is head of baseball operations with final say
Girsch is going to be the future full time GM he’s just getting a learning offseason from Mozeilak
Right, but who was the head of operations while Mo was gm? Nobody knew because he wasnt relevant. Just like Girsch isnt relevant as the gm because its all Mozeilak’s show.
What exactly is he learning tho? How to build a second place team?
The Cardinals didn’t have that title until they promoted MO to it…so no one knew who it was because it didn’t exist….Girsch is the GM and now Mo is head of operations
2nd place? I wish.
With the improvements made this winter by the Brewers and Cubs we’ll be lucky to finish in 3rd at 8 games back and 3 games under 500.
We finished 2 games over 500 last year and since then lost our closer and a good reliable starter in Lynn. We need a stopper for our BP like Holland to replace Rosie and Nicasio and we need another good starter to replace Lynn. Someone besides Chris Archer who is no better than Leake. Archer has a 53/61 career record with ERA’s above 4 the past 2 years. Why is Moz interested in him?
Don’t know who that the new starter would be but he has a big pair of shoes to fill with Lynn gone and Waino in his final year and hasn’t had a good season since 2014. Moz has sat and watched every decent starter sign with someone else. Cole would have been a good addition to our rotation but Houston got him.
Nutting and Huntington paying part of McCutchen’s salary for better prospects?? That’s clearly laughable. This inept owner/GM would rather give him away than pay any part of his salary. Sadly for Pirates fans, these jokers probably will!!
Cleveland Indians want cf Andrew McCutchen. My opinion The Pirates might take cf Bradley Zimmer from the Indians I dont know about paying for some of MCutchens contract tho? Pirates dont like to do that tho It might be policy!
Another off-season of big talk from the Cardinals. The only action truly made was Ozuna. The other two, Mikolas and Gregerson were just replacements for other pitchers now gone. I understand having lots of young arms and that is promising, but this fanbase is getting very weary and tired of bold statements being made to really enhance the team, but never truly making a difference making move(s).
it’s easy to project from behind a keyboard, isn’t it? you have zero clue what goes on inside the meetings and phone calls. I trust the professionals have a much better feel for the reality of running a major league team than you or I.
Amen fmj. Although maybe all their moves will never please me either at least I know that I am not qualified to lead a Major League Team! And I don’t claim to be able to either!
This is not a comment in regards what may be happening behind the scenes. Of course, none of us know for sure. My point is don`t make statements or even allude to statements that the media may put out there that encourages and revitalizes the fanbase going into 2018. Then during an annual event such as Winter Warmup announce that a journeyman middle reliever is now your closer.
Everything prior that was made public was that the team was going to or at minimum doing whatever was necessary to enhance all the areas that were major holes the past three seasons (and yes I include 2015…that was arguably the weakest 100 win ever). This included the closer`s role. If the kids are ready then great, then state that upfront. Don`t be a double-minded and say one thing and then do another. Under-promise and over-deliver, not the other way around. Don`t come around mid-January and tell the public Gregerson is the guy to start the season.
This has been a trend with this FO for several years. They get the hopes up, then they make head-scratching moves (Like announcing Jhonny Peralta was the starting 3rd baseman last year going into ST and the season – what in the world???
I understand your comments and appreciate them. I would rather have the FO not say anything at all and just do what they do and then receive the news when it comes.
You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to see this team needs pitching help badly if we are going to have any chance to improve. We lost a bunch of relievers and despite sitting on a mountain of TV money and having a boatload of prospects were still needing a stopper and were still 2 arms short of a decent rotation. Waino is gasping along with little hope of improving in his last year under contract and is 4 years removed from his last good season and we lost Lynn too.
Both the Cubs and Brewers improved this winter so without a major improvement in pitching we’re looking at sliding under 500.
Cardinals almost landed Stanton. That was areally good attempt. Cardinals had a decade plus of success with WS championship. What’s there to complain about?
Anytime a Yankees, Red Sox, Cardinals or Giants fans complains about their team the person complaining comes off as being soooo corny. Like, shut up dude. Come on.
Dude, that’s the problem. They “almost” got him. Jus to like the time they “almost” David price. They never do get that player they’re looking for. Truth is, if the cardinals don’t enter the season with a better closer or better starting pitcher, then we have no chance of catching the cubbies.
Cardinals did not “almost” land Stanton. He had no desire to ever go there. Yankees, Dodgers, Cubs and Astros were his only choices. Everyone else was tied for last.
Cardinals were never close to landing Stanton. He never wanted to go there.
Lots. We’ve seen our defense go into the tank the past 3 years and now our pitching is slipping away too?
We have plenty of cash and trade bait and are going to sit around and waste the 2 seasons we paid dearly for with Ozuna unless our F.O. gets busy and gets us some pitching.
The Cards have a decades long history of winning with smart play and good pitching and it’s drying up just at the time when the team is flush. That’s why some of us long time fans are restless.
Randy Miller PIrates fan Posts: My predictions: 1 Cubs 2 Pirates (wild card)
3 Brewers 4 Cardinals 5 and last Reds I cant wait I get all the games on Direct TV Major League Baseball Package. I shall watch the Pirates, Astros, Yankees, and some Cub games * they play a lot of day games) Let’s Go Play Ball
Hey Bucs homer – wake up. Your team is rebuilding. Them and the Reds will be fighting it out for last place.
Reyes, Flaherty, O’Neill and Sosa for Archer
Who says no first?
I do
Cardinals’ fans.
Go away with your silly proposals
LOL No.
You have to believe Reyes is off limits in any trade proposal. I’d really like to see them make at least one more move other than Ozuna but I’m afraid we are gonna have to watch them open the season with what they have.
The Cards say no. They won’t trade Reyes tbh even as a Cub fan I don’t blame them. Archer is good. But not that good. With 4+ ERA and never below 3 1/2 I think he’s more over rated than people think. Control means nothing over years if you can’t pitch under 3.5 ERA I say no and so would ST L
WO Reyes in the mix so does TB
Teams look at ERA but only a little there are far more better indicators and Archer rates well in those such as FIP, Sierra, Xfip. He may not be a #1 but he is close. I’m sure Tampa looks at him that way and if someone wants Archer none of their prospects are off limits. I’m pretty sure Tampa needs to be overwhelmed to trade Archer with as team friendly as his contract is.
4.6 WAR and a 3.40 FIP last season means he’s actually way better than you think.
Flaherty, oneil, and sosa should be enough to get archer. That would be a good deal for both teams in ny opinion.
Tampa probably says no.
Your opinion is meaningless in the scheme of an actual Archer trade.
Of course it is so is everyone else’s opinion your on a rumors website. Obviously it hit a nerve with you. Just remember if a Cards fan thinks it’s a fair trade it probably isn’t.
CJ81 – Rays won’t accept less than Quintana netted the White Sox, so you’re going to have to sweeten the pot.
Randy Miller Posts You do know Archer goes to 2nd floor of white house and sits around with trump both in pantyhose How does that help pitching? I am not judging just asking how does that help?
Cardinals would say no quickly.
That’s the dumbest trade proposal I have ever seen. Alex Reyes may be better than archer in the future. No need to add more top 10s
Except for the fact that he isn’t better than Archer now and he also may never be. He also is recovering from TJS, so his 2018 year is not likely to be very productive. And lastly, his years of pre-arb salaries are quickly being used up, so his Surplus Value ain’t what it would be in a typical top prospect. For all those reasons, he holds a lot less value to the Rays than Cardinals fans seem to think.
His hasn’t started using his year of pre-arbitration salary so please know what you are talking about before you dis other fans…Archers 3.5 era is so awesome…give me a break
Cards81 – According to baseball.reference.com, Reyes used up his first pre-arb year in 2017, 2018 will be his second and 2019 his last pre-arb year. Perhaps my source is wrong, but I don’t think it is. As for Archer’s ERA, only someone who doesn’t know much about baseball refers to ERA as the primary stat when comparing pitchers. And I wasn’t dissing Cardinals fans or Reyes, I was just pointing out that he isn’t as valuable in a trade as is being suggested, since he has two fewer years of cheap controllable years than the average top 25 prospect (I’m assuming his 2018 year will be less than his best as it’s his first year back from TJS). Sorry to be blunt, but it is what it is.
Replace Reyes with Dakota Hudson and Cards say yes. Not sure if TB would.
Easy answer – TB says no.
Again. Cards will never get rid of Reyes. Ever. So ppl need to stop putting him in trades. More likely Flaherty, Kelly, another pitcher a tier down and Grichuk
Reyes may be better than Archer as soon as the 2019 season. I don’t see them trading Reyes.
I’d see them offering Hudson, Flaherty, O’Neil and Sosa though. Not sure if Tampa would take it but they should.
Stromalama – Why exactly should the Rays take that deal? 4 years of Archer on a cheap contract or a package of players at less than FMV??? Rays go with Archer until they get a deal they like or the calendar says 2020. There is no need to trade him today for less than an ideal package.
Cards are NOT trading Reyes!
or Kelly for that matter!
Then they aren’t getting Archer. Look what the White Sox got for Quintana that’s at least what it costs.
Finally – Someone who understands the trade value of Archer!
Lol ok let’s look at what the cubs gave up for Q…Jimenez is projected to be a great player and probably will be and that was the big trade name…other than that it was weak…Cease a great pitching prospect but has already had TJ before even coming close to the majors…and then two other worthless prospects…lol
Dude are you really attacking the return for Quintana. The Whitesox got a top 10 talent and a top 75 talent. The Cards are lacking the Top 10 talent and you are arguing that the Cards offer would be better because of quantity isn’t Houston getting skewered for the taking a quantity offer over quality for Cole. You just proved my point the proposed deals on here lack the high end component and that is what it’s going to take to get Archer.
Also cards81 you want to dis on Cease as part of the return for Q but didn’t Reyes have have TJ surgery?
Cmon man you can’t have it both ways. Players come back from TJ all the time I would argue that Reyes went from the number 1 to 14 because of the lost development time. Cease isn’t thought of any less because he had TJ surgery that he had before the trade lol.
????
No way do we give up Reyes. We shouldn’t give up any decent prospect for Archer. He’s got a worse career record than Leake had.
What do u guys think the Cards have to offer for Colome or Archer?
Not much without Reyes. At least that’s how I assume the Rays view it.
Archer nothing because wo Reyes there no trade. StL says no Reyes TB say no Archer so you might as well get over it and move on. As far as the other a lot minus Reyes lol
The cardinals should be able to get a deal done for Archer without Reyes…will they? I doubt it. But they have Flaherty, Gomber, Fernandez, Hicks…that just pitching…not to mention the outfield depth they can deal from. If you read the post dispatch it sounds like the cardinals are done…Dewitt loves Martinez and I think they are counting on his bat. I predict he will be starting at First base if he comes out hot in ST…he had a great second half last year and proved he can hit. I think the cardinals are expecting Hicks to be their future closer and we will see him sometime this year. Cardinals sound like they are content to go with their young talent and see how it works out before making anymore big moves. If they can stay in the hunt then they might make trades midseason (Donaldson) but we will see.
Why make a mid season trade for 2 months of rental for an aging Donaldson? We need pitching badly. Both another good starter or 2 and a real closer. Without them we slide farther down and finish under 500.
Despite noise from Moz Archer is a loser. He’s got a lousy record way under 500 with an ERA above 4 the last 2 years. Remember Leake? He had a better record than that and we ate most of his salary to dump him..
Archer is an innings eater and thats what they need with lance gone. Plus his era will come down because Busch is a more pitcher friendly bull park. Long term Martinez, Archer, Weaver, and Reyes is hell of a rotation. I take Archer over overpaying on Arietta or going with the rotation as is. Waino was great but 4 years since we saw that greatness.
I think the park is negligible. Tropicana Field and Busch stadium were #24 and #25 respectively in park factor for runs scored in 2017. One isn’t really that much more pitcher friendly than the other.
Flaherty, Hudson, Perez, Gomber, Bader get chris archer. Dude is a #1 at best, at worst a #2.
He’s posted 3 WAR or better last 4 seasons, 190 innings or more last 4 seasons, his periphials place him around 3.5 era or below last 4 seasons…..oh and he is under team control for
4 years at 6.25, 7.5, 8.25, 8.25 price tags.
Jose Quintana netted eloy jiminez, matt cease, and 2 guys outside their top 30. Very similar pitchers but cards wont part with an eloy type player in reyes or weaver so they have to supplement it better. Also archer is making less than Quintana.
Seriously? You propose a trade package with no one in the Top 50 for Archer (Flaherty is 48 now, but will probably drop outside the top 50 in the 2018 poll). Replacing a top 10 prospect with a bunch of guys ain’t getting it done. Just stop!!!
Lol I don’t know what either of you are talking about(padresarmchair, mp2891)
Padres that is way to much…30 years of control for 4 is outrageous…flaherty, Hudson, and perez is enough…as in the cardinals have enough to get it done with three prospects or maybe even MLB ready players….maybe Wacha who replaces him in the rotation…Flaherty is their future rotation prospect…and depending on what the Rays want Grichuk is Mlb ready or Bader who is a great outfield prospect…or maybe Perez….but that should be enough… maybe 4 of those at least.
And that should be plenty MP…those are great prospects…Bader an Flaherty are in the top 100 prospects and Perez was a # 1 pick
Cards81 – I like those prospects a lot, and would love to add some of them for Odorizzi or Colome. Don’t misunderstand me. I’m not dissing your prospects, but if you want Archer, you’re going to need to include someone special. The Rays don’t need to trade one of the best pitchers in baseball, and they certainly aren’t going to trade him for less than a top 25 (or even top 15) prospect. You don’t like the cost, fine. Then keep your prospects and we’ll keep Archer. Nothing wrong with that.
1. Rays have no use for grichuk 3 years or wacha for 2 in a archer deal. Dealing archer signals a rebuils. If they were retooling itd male sense. But longoria and archer gone is full rebuild.
2. No flaherty hudson and perez isnt enough. Quintana netted a top 20 prospect in eloy and dylan cease who checked in at the 80s according to ba.
A archer deal either involves reyes or weaver, bader, and two guys outside your top
or
Flaherty, Bader with better prospects like perez hudson gomber included to offset lowering the main pieces.
Right on and that is why the trade hasn’t happened I guess lol…that’s why Yelich will never get traded…the prospects just aren’t worth it
Cease had already had TJ surgery so obviously that lowers his value…sorry but cease isn’t even in the top 100 now…Reyes went from being the #1 pitching prospect to #14 prospect…Cease is a hopeful prospect
Or a trade hasnt happened because the rays dont have to deal archer. 4 years of team control under 9 mill each year. Most likely the best value on the market outside arb elig players.
They could be competitive in that 4 year window. They won 80 games last year and freed up a lot of money from the Longoria trade.
Not to mention they have bauers, adames, honeywell, and a lot of good prospects coming up in the next 2 years. Not hard to see why the rays are hesitant to trade archer and colome unless blown away.
Why is Archer one of the best pitchers in MLB? He has a career record 8 games UNDER 500 and an ERA north of 4.0 his last 2 years? Leake had better stats and was an innings eater and we ate 3 years of his contract to dump him…
Jose quintana is the best comparison for a chris archer trade.
Quintana netted a top 20 in eloy and top 100 in cease. The others didnt even come close in a cubs depleted farm system.
The cardinals dont have a eloy type prospect, but they suppliment flaherty and bader with better secondary pieces- gomber, perez, and hudson are better than the secondary pieces quintana netted.
Joe Musgrove 20 game winner in 2018 20-12 Posts : Archer is no Quintana nor is he a Joe Musgrove Keep Him Thanks, Joe Musgrove Pirates
I’m sorry. Did you really just say Quintana and Musgrove are better pitchers than Archer? In what universe???
Thanks guys. Couldnt of asked for more opinions
Mo is drunk if he thinks Gregerson will last as the Cardinals closer.
randy miller posts: Crdinals why not trade Reyes for to the Pirates for Glasnow *and Michael Feliz ( he can close ) Just got him from the Houston Oilers. Deal Kane?
Cards better not trade Reyes,we do have a good young catcher named Kelley if you need one!
Not nearly enough to get Archer.
You had 99 comments, but 100 ain’t one…Hit Me!!
Maddon is really hoping the Cubbies get a solid closer now. He does Not know how to manage his bullpen in the playoffs so he needs a great one. I hope we can get a real lead-off man too because Schwarber first or Rizzo is stupid even though Riz did well his Hrs were solo shots. Bryant is a #3 hitter and Rizzo 4.