Kerry Crowley of The Mercury News boldly calls Madison Bumgarner’s contract situation the Giants’ “elephant in the room”. Crowley wonders whether Bumgarner must be traded in order to spark a rebuild for the club, who failed to make any significant moves at the trade deadline and now sit at 57-58 on the season after struggling to the league’s worst record last year (tied with the Tigers, of course). Whether the club ultimately decides to “rebuild or remodel”, Bumgarner’s the only player on the roster whose contract might warrant teams forking over a significant prospect return; something an aging Giants team could certainly use. Crowley describes Bumgarner’s future as “uncertain” in the amidst a mediocre team with a gargantuan payroll.
More on a few interesting items from around MLB this evening…
- The Nationals received some welcome news on Stephen Strasburg today, as the right-hander reportedly “felt good” after tossing a 42-pitch bullpen session. According to Jorge Castillo of the Washington Post, he’s likely to throw another one tomorrow and could potentially embark upon a rehab assignment soon thereafter. He’s been on the DL since June 26th with a cervical nerve impingement, but on the bright side he was cleared of any structural damage in his shoulder shortly thereafter.
- The Astros appear to be even closer to getting a valuable asset back on the field, as Carlos Correa was spotted at Minute Maid Park today, with Christian Boutwell of MLB.com among those eye witnesses. Though he was inactive for today’s game, the former Rookie of the Year shortstop believes he could be back on the field as soon as tomorrow. Correa’s having a down season by his standards, hitting .268/.352/.480 with a slightly-bloated 24.4% strikeout rate.
- The Yankees, for their part, already got a notable player back from the DL. J.A. Happ was activated today, filling the roster spot left vacant after they optioned Chance Adams to Triple-A last night. Happ’s been on the DL with hand, foot and mouth disease for the past week plus, but will return to the rotation and attempt to provide the value the Bombers envisioned when they traded Brandon Drury and Billy McKinney in order to obtain him. Happ’s posted a 4.05 ERA through 21 starts
Imagine if Panda had gotten a big contract from the Giants
Doesn’t matter they ended up taking on most of Longorias contract now. Deal not nearly as bad but still way too much money
They’ve never been much of a low budget operation.
Can’t fault them for being cheap by any means, but a lot of the money they’ve spent over the past decade has just disappeared into the void. Zito, Jason Schmidt, Cain, Rowand, Freddy Sanchez, Hunter Pence’s extension, Span, Cueto, Samarzdija, Melancon, and Longoria. I agree they’d land multiple blue chip prospects for MadBum, and it makes complete sense for them to do that, but they won’t because the Giants don’t trade home grown players no matter what.
Void?
While huge overpay, Zito was the playoff hero in 2012, as well as a steady presence in the rotation (see Samardzija), which, while not delivering full value, was still not a void.
Schmidt was a void for the Dodgers, not the Giants.
Cain’s paid him for what he did for the Giants over his whole career, when he was underpaid. Lincecum too, though you didn’t mention him.
Rowand was a void, agreed. Freddy, sure, but that was only a shorter contract, he passed on the longer one. Pence basically declined after the Cubs scrub broke his hand with a wild pitch. But I see him being paid for the inspiration he provided in 2012 and 2014. Span, sure, and the rest, surprised you didn’t add Benitez, he really was a void, at least Melancon has been usable this season, Armando never was.
Cueto I blame on the MLB, he was great in 2016, and if the MLB didn’t screw around with the ball in 2017, Cueto don’t get the blisters, have another great season, and would have opted out, which is what I saw as the plan when he was signed. But water under the bridge now, if his arm recovers properly, we should have two good to great seasons in 2020-2021, and that would make the deal even, by $/WAR standards.
Still, overall, free agent flops are the price any team that wants to be regularly competitive has to pay. No team can rebuild internally entirely with youth, they need to overpay some vets to be complements, and vets, basically by definition, become overpaid at some point in their contract, some sooner than others. Better than being the team that don’t spend any/much money on free agents, lining the owner’s pockets.
And the Giants have done very well with home grown players, Fangraphs studied WAR production by acquisition type, the Giants were among the leader a couple of years ago in homegrown production. You don’t do that trading them away.
Jason Schmidt ? No, that was LA who got burned by signing Schmidt to a deal that didn’t pan out. All Schmidt did in Sf was toss 1000 innings of 3.30 ball, make the all-star game three times, and be a Cy Young candidate twice. All for $40M over 6 years.
Giants worst contract
$ 64 million four years
Injury or batting practice
Zero production
Can someone name other worst contract???
At least panda is produce
“Bumgarner’s the only player on the roster whose contract might warrant teams forking over a significant prospect return”
For some reason I think a lot of teams would be willing to give up a significant prospect return for Buster Posey, too. Brandon Crawford as well. Brandon Belt and some relievers could bring solid returns also.
Posey is making 22 mil, with another 66 owed to him. At 2 .6 WAR, he essentially has negative surplus value. Thats not even factoring in his continued projected decline. Thats not a tradeable asset..
Teams can get declining stars with outrageous salaries on the free agency market without giving up anything.
Also he will have to move away from catcher soon if he wants to stay healthy. He will retire as a Giants.
Joe Mauer 2.0 heard it here first
Please do research first,not worth a reply
Really? Most teams would jump at the chance. There is more to baseball than numbers and posey is the best catcher in MLB. Not just because of what he does in the batters box.
Best catcher in MLB? Molina might have something to say about that
Realmuto is the best catcher in baseball right now!
I actually agree with that braves25…I like Posey as well but to say he is the best catcher in the mlb…come on…plus molina is still an elite catcher at age 35 while eveyone on here is already talking about posey moving to first base
Posey deal is eerily reminiscent to Mauer deal
Money can be traded as part of any deal. Posey won’t be traded but that doesn’t mean he’s untradeable.
Sure posey will get a package similar to Chris sale
Chris Sale has more than double the war at half the salary, at the prime of his career. Posey is 31 years old catcher. Its not even in the same universe.
Posey body is getting much older and a move to 1B is coming sooner than later. problem is at 1B his stats are not that great. He is a .300 hitting 1B without power. That is the reason they drafted a young prospect catcher. Madbum isand Crawford is their only trading chips left.
You are using stats as a catcher to measure him at first base? Do tou realize the wear and tear that a catcher endures that a first baseman never sees. Wait until Bart is ready then measure him as a first baseman
Buster posey is actually a really good first baseman. Dude was an infielder in college.
You obviously don’t follow the giants. When Posey plays first base he bats almost 400. His numbers are lower at catcher. He splits tike between the two positions and ends up around 300 every year. Post is the best catcher in MLB and it’s not close. That’s without even considering his bat. Madbum and Posey and Crawford aren’t going anywhere. The giants payroll isn’t a problem, regardless of results. They sell out every game, they own their own stadium in the second most expensive real estate in the country. The giants make a profit even with a 200 million dollar payroll and missing the playoffs. The giants aren’t trading stars because they are expensive. They never have and the never will. In fact, most giants contracts reflect past performance (especially for home grown guys) rather than projected results. Stop pretending all teams are the same. They are not.
Jt Realmuto is better than Posey. If anyone was going to trade a blue chipper for a catcher it would be JTR 1st. Much cheaper and younger
Posey is better at Pitch framing and game callin than JT
Molina is better than posey at pitch framing and calling a game
Unfortunately, it seems like the Giants front office is the only one that doesn’t see the the trajectory that Posey’s career is taking.
Bumgarner’s the only player on the roster whose contract might warrant teams forking over a significant prospect return
————
Really? Teams wouldn’t give up a significant package for Belt or Crawford?
The Giants can’t “remodel”. They don’t have anything to work with, to remodel. They have no money , and few prospects to spend (the ones they have are far from the majors).
Only thing they can do is a full rebuild. One that lasts years. Moving MadBum, Belt and Crawford for young (single A level) prospects, to join what they have, along with high draft picks for a couple of years, would allow them to start moving up again in 2-3 years.
Because first baseman are in high demand
Belt is over paid as a first baseman. They would be lucky to get a team to take his contract without paying down..
Put belt in Yankee Stadium and you have the next Mark Texiera from the left side
They will have money. I am positive they will go after Harper. They have only 142mil committed for 2019.
Like Stanton, Harper will say no thanks. The Giants aren’t contending anytime soon. Tear-It-Down already
The giants are an entertainment company and their stars sell out games. They don’t need to work for years to make a 2-3 year contention window. They operate at a profit and sell out games, even with the worst record in baseball. Get over it. GIANT FOR LIFE.
Giants are one of the richest teams in baseball…I don’t think it will take long
Since when do the Giants have no money? They have plenty of money. They’ve spent near the top of baseball for years, and were willing to take on Stanton’s deal; they Giants can spend pretty much whatever they want, they’ve just decided to remain under the tax threshold to reset their penalties this year…when they clearly don’t have a team that can win it all…unless something crazy happens.
Crowley describes Bumgarner’s future as “uncertain” in the amidst a mediocre team with a gargantuan payroll.
Oh the Giants and their fans and media are taking the stance:
What have you done for me lately?
I mean is it insane to think they should have sold high rather sign a bunch of washed up 34 year olds to payroll breaking deals to pursue 500?
Mccutchen is 31 Longo is 32.
Only in the eyes of the media is madbums future uncertain. It’s very certain for the team and fans.
Mad Bum’s status on the Giants is not new news. Every armchair GM wants him traded. It is the hot trend in baseball: Cubs, Astros, Phillies, Atlanta. The Giants will not trade him. They won’t go into a full rebuild mode. They want butts in those seats. I see Posey going to first and Belt going to LF. I think this last bell ringing opened Posey’s eyes more to that move.
Hope they hit on that draft pick they get for Bumgarner after next season then.
Hahahaha. Bumgarner has no desire to leave the giants. He s not Harper the clown.
If I was a country boy like Bumgarner, I doubt that I would be stoked on spending a ton of time in liberal San Francisco and giving a huge percentage of the massive contract I’m about to sign to the liberal government of California. I’m a native Californian and I can’t even stand it here anymore. The only time I set foot in the city is when I have to go for work or I get a hook up on some tickets.
Then they should trade him for a haul then re-sign him like the Yankees with Aroldis Chapman.
Um, you know that you can leave, right ?
You wavered there. You see it now,right?
Significant prospect return is not the same as solid prospect return. You painted a wide brush.
Got a question for all the SF fans. Was that stretch a dynasty? WS win,miss playoffs,etc. if that was a dynasty,was the Yankees 4 in a row a dynasty?
ASKING FOR A FRIEND.
Huh? Asking for a friend….
Kyle, you forgot to link the players names to BR!
At first all the Bumgarner trade rumors were hilarious and cute. But now it’s string annoying. Bumgarner ain’t leaving; I’m sorry brewers and Yankees fans. Anyways the giants would definitely keep him because he is the only super star on the team. Even if the Giants suck people will buy tickets to see a duck dynasty star pitch.
Bruh, you crazy as hell…
You’re crazy. The giants are a team that hates to sell their top players. When was the last time they traded one of their best players? Hell, they were willing to overpay for Sandoval after 2014.
Sabean trading Matt Williams is the last one I can think of.
And they’ll finish like this year, in third or fourth for the foreseeable future. Aging roster, no farm, everybody else can do the math.
See 2005-2007 SF Giants. They’ve played the “suck but have a superstar on the roster” card before. See 2010, 2012, and 2014 if you want to know whether it worked for them.
I tend to agree. The Giants seem like they’d rather delay their rebuild for years in order to keep their (possible) future Hall of Famers. I don’t see him or Posey being dealt.
They’re gonna lose him after next year anyway. Why not get some young blue chippers for him?
Because they’re living in the past man.
Living in the past… delusional so best. Go read the giants history on Wikipedia then comment. Or if you’re a real baseball fan, which you’re not, you would just know that all teams operate in a unique manner, and the current trend of teams tanking for years to stockpile prospects isn’t a league wide phenomenon. It’s a bunch of teams that are and always have been terrible. Those teams used it as a path to relevance. The giants are always relevant. They don’t need to play games to assemble a roster. They try to win every year, and always have. They aren’t the garbage cubs or Indians or Astros. The giants are historically a top 3 team in all of baseball.
“They try to win every year, and always have.”
Sure not last year or this one.
Hey, no fair bringing the Pirates into this
The SF Giants have an amazing core base, publicity, TV, radio, a venue they pay their own, the are set… The business side is there, upgrade the team to improve it and make it competitive again seems not a priority at this point…
@julyn82001 Being competitive is essential right now. The Giants have a massive Mission Rock project going on – the area directly across the stadium around McCovey Cove. They need a competitive team to generate interest in it and get those 1,500 housing units, 1.5 million square feet of retail and office space filled. It won’t be nearly as easy when it opens in year 2 of a 5-year rebuild.
Sigh. Even last year when the giants were the worst team in baseball they still sold out games. Try again.
@Dodgethis Glad you can be respectable when I obviously know what I’m talking about, especially when it was written in several local publications.
The Giants certainly didn’t plan to be the worst team in baseball in 2016 – even with the slump in the second half they were a playoff team that took the Cubs to the end. They had massive injuries (Panic, Belt, Bumgarner Melancon). Heck, they signed Melancon to a huge contract thinking that wold be the band-aid the bullpen needed as they lost over 30 games to blown holds/saves.
When they came out the game playing bad in 2017 they suffered their first non-sellouts in seven years, and there have been plenty since. Their attendance went down 300,000+. The Giants will always draw well as their have a loyal fan base and the best stadium in the majors, but having a winning team drives everything from sellouts to merchandise to advertising rights in their TV and Radio broadcasts (which they also either own or partly own).
This is why they went out and tried to get Stanton – if you know baseball which I don’t think you do, you would know one player won’t make a team better. But to the fans that buy season tickets it would be enough for them to renew or generate excitement for the next season. When Stanton backed out they went and got a new right fielder and third baseman, both players past their prime but still names that will fill the seats. Gee whiz, it worked.
I’m guessing after this season they will make a run for Harper and he’ll use them as a bargaining chip to get more money from the Cubs or Phillies. Then they’ll just keep tweaking the roster and make moves hoping to get one more glorious year out of that infield.
Nailed it.
Maybe players staying on one team for a career could be making a comeback….probably not… but if it does happen… it would make sense to be for a great fan base like SF
In answer to a question from Jeff Todd’s Q and A: the 2018 Giants are tor 2012 Phillies.
Nah, the Giants are in a better position than the 2012 Phillies were, both player-wise and financially. The Phillies crashed into a wall in 2012, with nearly every one of their players falling off a cliff production or injury wise, and their payroll spiked. The Giants have better players who still have some mileage left, and their financial situation isn’t as bad either. The Giants probably should throw in the towel and rebuild, but a team doesn’t always have to tear it down to the ground and start over…the yankees certainly didn’t. Teams with money and brains should never have to lose 110 games just to become competitive.
…are the 2012 Phillies.
Not even close. Only a deluded Philly fan would make that claim.
The Giants will not trade Bumgarner. They will do whatever it takes to continue to sell nearly 40,000 tickets every single night. And that means that they will not trade Bumgarner.
The Giants should make everyone other than Posey available this offseason and seriously consider a full rebuild
Posey and Crawford have full NTC’s and Belt has a partial. Outside of Bumgarner, those are pretty much the only players that could bring back much. I’m sure they could get something decent for Smith and Watson, but probably not enough to kickstart a rebuild.
I’m sure Crawford and Belt would waive those NTC’s to go to contenders and Panik might have some value as well. As you’ve pointed out though the Giants would have to trade Bumgarner to get a significant return
I don’t think Crawford would. He was born and raised a Giants fan. There is a picture of him as a child at Candlestick with tears in his eyes hold a sign begging the team not to move to St. Petersburg Florida. Belt might though, but the guy can’t stay healthy for a full season and is on a market value contract so I don’t know how much he would bring back. Panik, in my opinion, is a non tender candidate. Seems he forgot how to hit and get on base.
I have to push back on Panik’s decline. It is mostly health and luck. He does need to stay healthy next season.
But he is swinging at pitches outside the strike zone less and making hard contact more this season than his career averages. But his babip is just .233 – lowest amongst second basemen with 200 ABs. That looks like bad luck.
Time to move forward
Except facts that Giants World Series Run was over
Mad bump can give giants three prospects
Take it
No more supermax contract fir bum or any giants
I’d take Posey on any AL contending team. He could split time between DH, 1st and Catching.
MadBum will fetch a solid return. Possibly an A prospect and a couple low level guys. Or a couple B/C prospects and a high upside low level guy.
Crawford should fetch a decent guy or 2 as well.
All this supermax contract players end up injury or tommy John making me sick
Paying players $ 20 million a years and not production Also making me sick
I am switching channel
Watching little league
More exciting then mlb
Hahahaha