12:49pm: The Marlins added $500K in spending capacity to their coffers in today’s swap, per MLB.com’s Mark Feinsand (via Twitter).
11:04am: The Marlins and Astros have officially struck a deal that will send yet more international bonus pool availability to the Miami organization, as MLB.com’s Joe Frisaro first reported (via Twitter). Houston will receive a pair of prospects — outfielder Adonis Giron and lefty Brayan De Paula — in the swap.
It is not yet known how much spending capacity will flow to the Marlins in this deal. Per another Frisaro tweet, though, the Fish believe they’ve now got deeper pockets to work with than do the Orioles — the other primary competitor for the top international amateur talent left for bidding in the current signing period.
At last glance, the Marlins had moved past $6MM in pool space after yet another swap. The club needed to pick up over $2MM in funds to exceed the $6.7MM the Orioles were believed to be working with. Bonus pool availability — which sets a hard cap on spending — can only be dealt in $250K increments. Teams are limited to adding 75% of their starting allocation.
The remaining international market is widely said to offer three top prizes, all of whom evidently are objects of the Marlins’ and Orioles’ affections. Victor Victor Mesa is generally viewed as the best player available, with his younger brother Victor Mesa Jr. and righty Sandy Gaston also graded as intriguing young assets. Each member of this trio of Cubans is subject to international spending limitations.
Much like the other teams that have struck deals of late with the Marlins — the Nationals and Reds — the Astros weren’t able to put their existing international pool space to full use. By virtue of prior spending penalties, imposed under the prior rules regime, the Houston organization was barred from spending more than #400K on any given player.
The ’Stros, then, decided instead to use that availability to pick up a pair of youthful players — recent international signees themselves. The 17-year-old Giron spent the year with the Marlins’ Dominican Summer League entrant, slashing .255/.331/.362 in 275 plate appearances. He previously inked for $350K, with a reputedly intriguing bat. De Paula, 19, also appeared on the DSL roster for a second consecutive year, spinning 44 1/3 innings of 2.23 ERA ball with 9.1 K/9 against 2.4 BB/9.
So Miami has shipped out at least 5 players including one bonafide MLB arm in order to potentially sign a 16 year old that may or may not ever make the major leagues. Meanwhile, former AL MVP Josh Donaldson was traded for just a 27 year old minor league pitcher coming off a major arm injury.
MLB transactions have gotten pretty wacky.
It’s not just the 16 year old. It’s his brother too. And they’re probably also going for sandy Gaston. I assume they’re going for all 3. I am in full support of these moves.
Don’t see how they get all three, the brothers maybe, but it’s not like they’ll divvy that up by three and leave $6.7 million on the table in Baltimore.
Yeah it seems next to impossible that Miami pulls in all3. Both mesa’s figure to eat a significant chunk of their pool and they’re already neck and neck with Baltimore. These 3 are the biggest names left unless Gaston wants to take millions less I don’t see how he isn’t signing in Baltimore.
*To potentially sign three players in the same international signing period, two of which are 16 while the other is 22. None of the three could make the major leagues, but one has a higher chance (and sooner rather than in 5-7 years it might take the younger ones).
Also have to think about Jeter’s perspective, as crappy as it may be: it’s a splashy move to bring in three interesting prospects to add to an iffy farm system. Current FO might not have been as high on the guys they sent out, nor thought Barraclough would be around in 3-4 years when they *could* become relevant.
Then why didnt they trade Barraclough at any point between last year and July?
Donaldson was injured at the time of the deal and underperforming on the year (though most likely due to the injury) and was a rental for less than two months. The Jays would have gotten significantly more had they traded him before the season
He was still a recent MVP basically being given away. I am fully aware of all the reasons, I just don’t consider any of them good enough.
Then you’re ignorant. There wasn’t a better offer so they took the best one in their minds
The better offer was not setting a precedent for giving away your players for nothing. There were 2 better offers. One was him turning down the qualifying offer and getting a draft pick. Two was him accepting the qualifying offer and getting the first half of 2019 to rebuild his value and get you a bigger package in July 2019. Who’s ignorant now?
No one would think about paying Donaldson 19mil a year… So you are still ignorant if you are asking
It looks like you are Hiflew. They did not give Donaldson away they got what they could. He is NOT the former MVP you are in love with he is an aging broken down former MVP who had one month of control by the Jays who were out of the race.
And did you really say offer him a QO? Wow. Talk about just not understanding he IS NOT rebuilding MVP value. You offer a QO for $19m he may take it. Then you are stuck!
He is a FA now with no comp attached. You think be is getting $19m per year next year? Dream on
HiFlew you are right -on twice. The Jays blew it when they didn’t trade him last year as many in these pages were even calling the Jays to do.
Secondly, to trade him at the deadline in a panic manner [which is what happened] is plain stupidity. The guy they got is a plus arm before TJ surgery. Afterwards? I hope he makes it as a reliever.
The Jays should have QO him as you said. Money is irrelevant to rogers and with room on the books it was a no brainer. The Jays are the richest owner in baseball.
If you look at it, In return for Bautista, Donaldson and Encarnacion, the Jays got a broken down releiver and draft pick many years out.
Shaprio and Atkins think like small market minded executives. They are not in the elite category of a Cashman, Drombowski, Sterns or Epstein.
Shapiro and Atkins are 2 years too late on this rebuild as was called in these pages 2 years ago. They have made a few good moves but the MLB level team is still 3 years away from a championship calibre. It only took Sterns, Cashman or Dombrokwski 2 years to return their clubs to championship calibre. And these guys recognized when it was time, not waited too long. Fire Shapiro and Atkins now.
They either love the Mesa’s or it’s a PR move or they’re already in too deep with all these trades that it’d be a PR disaster if they whiffed at this point. You decide.
Agreed. I wonder if rules will be amended as soon as they can as I don’t believe the intent was to trade off existing talent for bonus pool money. Rules need to be the same for all minor players, based on age.
The rules were put in place to allow the trading for bonus pool money. If you are not trading players for that then what do you think the expectation was when they put in the rule to allow trading
I imagine if Donaldson had been under contract for 6 years instead of a few months, you’d have seen a much more similar return.
59 innings of non-contending baseball makes you a “bonified MLB arm”? Seriously?
High end prospects have always been valuable. This is nothing new. The Marlins are doing the right thing by going after the Mesa brothers. And they haven’t given up anything significant. They have a dozen young arms in their organization who are better rated than this “bonified MLB arm”.
Buddy. Barraclough had a down year but he has over 200 innings of big league experience where he’s tossed up a career 3.21 ERA 3.45 FIP and has averaged 11K/9. He’s a big league arm.
He had a down month and a half. He was dominant until july
As an Orioles fan, I officially hate Jeter more than ever
Jeter, screwing the Orioles for well over 20 years. Lol
Hehehehe
As an Orioles fan who considers the Yanks a staunch rival, I totally respect Derek Jeter.
Why blame Jeter. Whats stopping the 0’s from doing the same other than incompetence
Marlins have nothing to lose & a lot to gain.
They still have the MLB amateur draft to add their farm system also.
I like the direction Jeet is taking the marlins in. I also think it’s best they trade realmuto since this is the highest his value will likely ever be. Other than that, they should look to sign some low cost vets who have bounceback potential to supplement positions like 1B and C (if relamuto is traded), OF and pitchers… trade them for more depth at the deadline in the event they catch lighting in a bottle
Jeter looks like he is going to gamble on a couple of 16 y o instead of building a team. Glad I am not a Marlin’s fan because I don’t seeing them being good for a decade. More likely is Jeter fired than those 2 making the big leagues.
Like the A’s have been the standard of consistency… Glad I’m not an A’s fan.
Miami will win the WS before A’s. Actually, they won it more recently than A’s. Blame Jeter for world hunger, instead of building a team right way, from bottom up. How else you supposed to build a team had arguably worst farm in mlb, when you inherited it?
Thank you, miami needs more people like you. . Tired of this Anti-Jeter/miami people
Come on, do you honestly look at the A’s and Marlins right now and think the Marlins will win a WS before the A’s? A’s opened their door a year early, and look to be playoff contenders for next few years. I’m not calling them WS favorites next year, but they have a really good team.
How do you possibly look at the two and think Miami is closer? Oakland looks like they have the foundation of a playoff team. Miami won’t be seeing October for at least four more years.
Even four is optimistic. Better hope realmuto brings back a couple starters because they sure don’t have any.
Wake me up when they make a good deal. the Stanton deal was very bad only a NYY fan would love it since they gave up nothing for Miami to pay half down. Did Jeter do any good trades so far? Just because he played ball doesn’t make him a good GM. His first draft pick is far away from being a good prospect. So far all his deals have not yielded anything exciting. Your prediction of NYY winning the world series this year didn’t go very good so please don’t claim you know a winner.
What are you on about? The Stanton trade landed the Marlins a top 100 pitching prospect, a starting second baseman, and $250M in salary relief that keeps them from going bankrupt.
What else would you have liked to get? The Statue of Liberty?
The Stanton deal was certainly a good one. He has no surplus value on that contract and he was on a team that couldn’t afford to pay him the money. They got a couple interesting pieces and that’s all you can hope for.
“the Stanton deal was very bad only a NYY fan would love it since they gave up nothing for Miami to pay half down.”
NYY traded prospect with 80-grade fastball, climbed ranks of Miami farm. Jorge Guzman. 97MPH fastball, tops out 103 MPH
Jury still out if they get anything for Castro.
There’s also the matter of assuming $265M.
Would not expect u to know anything about that, since u just assume it’s monopoly money.
“All his deals havent yield anything exciting”
He’s top-5 prospect in MIA system. MLB.com:
“lightning-quick arm and relatively easy delivery produces exceptional velocity in a fastball that sits 97-103 mph as a starter.”
“he regressed as a strike thrower in ’18 while pitching in the Florida State League. Guzman’s power slider is an above-average pitch and complements his heater nicely, and together they help him to rack up strikeouts. He also has changeup that’s in its nascent stages.”
Was bummed losing him. Starter or RP, wasnt “throw-in” Keep throwing false narratives.
“Your prediction of NYY winning the world series this year didn’t go very good so please don’t claim you know a winner.”
I never predicted NYY would win the WS? Maybe I did once? I don’t remember. That’s because usually acknowledged how hard it was to win the damn thing. Witj a proper manager, maybe, but why bother trying explain myself, when I know you’ll struggle to come up with the link.
Want actual prediction? A’s miss playoffs
Gambling on international free agents is how you build a team, you seriously have no idea what you are talking about. Victor victor isn’t 16 either.
Its a gamble but a very big gamble. Not many of those great 16 y o amount to what their potential says.
Only way to win is to gamble first. And I like his odds.
Would you like a list of 16 year old international draftees who’ve appeared in the 2018 post season? It’s a long list.
Btw., Victor Victor Mesa is 22 years old.
Miami: All your International pool money belong to us.
Why would the owner fire himself?
I’ll give Jeter credit for realizing that they’re so far away, that they shouldn’t look for band-aids, and rather gather up as much prospect capital as you can.
All prospects are suspects, but as Branch Rickey taught us, you get quality from quantity. If you want 2 good starters, you need 10 prospects (see Braves, Atlanta). Scouts are far from being always right, but they’re right more than wrong; and some really think Victor is an impact-type talent. Is he? Who knows. But he has more of a chance to impact than anything they’ve given away.
He could end up as a Gleyber Torres or Vlad Guerrero Jr, but he could also end up as a Dermis Garcia or Michael Ynoa, It’s basically looking at high school rosters and trying to project which sophomores will become impact players in 7-8 years. As big of a gamble as the draft is, the IFA market is an even bigger one.
Are international pools better quality than American pools?
Not really, but you do get the occasional obvious high value target, that you don’t get with the regular draft (for players who’ve played at the highest level in Korea, Cuba or Japan, which are all much higher level leagues than any amateur competition in the US). Ohtani is of course a good example, so was Moncada (who ended up landing Chris Sale for the Red Sox).
Victor Victor Mesa might not be as high value as Ohtani, but he’s still worth a LOOOOT more than the $6M he’s going to get, to sign with the Marlins. So this is a big coup for Jeter, if he gets him. Even if you consider what he gave up to get all that bonus pool money, he’s getting a 50% discount on this kid, easy.
Keep in mind that the Red Sox spent over $50M on Moncada before international players’ bonuses got capped, and that if Ohtani was a free agent last year, he would’ve gotten well North of $100M.
Marlins dealing with Houston means Houston just got at least another future legit prospect. Not the first or last time. I’m not as annoyed by this as I was over the previous 2 deals though, for now, but I’m sure I will be in 2 years
Look at it this way: if this guy has one good year in the minors, he’ll have the same trade value as Moncada. Moncada was the headliner in the Chris Sale trade.
And Jeter is about to get him for $6M and a couple of borderline prospects he gave away to get that $6M. It would be a huge steal, especially since the Orioles thought they had the deal all wrapped up.
The problem is these guys aren’t as hyped as Moncada was. Moncada didn’t just put up a good season and then gained all that value.