TODAY: The Marlins picked up $1MM of bonus availability in the swap with the Nats, per Spencer (via Twitter). The prior deal with the Reds brought in $750K, MLB.com’s Jesse Sanchez tweets, meaning that the Miami organization has just over $6MM in spending capacity to work with.
YESTERDAY: The Marlins and Orioles have long been considered the two front-runners to sign top prospect Victor Victor Mesa and his younger brother, Victor Mesa Jr., given the fact that they possess the two largest remaining international bonus pools. At the time of the showcase featuring the Mesa brothers and hard-throwing righty Sandy Gaston, a fellow Cuban prospect of intrigue, Baltimore was reported to have a $6.7MM pool to the Marlins’ $4.3MM allotment.
However, Clark Spencer of the Miami Herald reports (via Twitter) that following the weekend trade sending prospect Ryan Lillie to the Reds and this morning’s relatively stunning trade of Kyle Barraclough to the Nationals, the Marlins have “almost as much” international money as the Orioles. The specific amount that the Nationals sent to the Marlins in order to acquire the final three years of club control over Barraclough isn’t clear, but in order for the Marlins to be within striking distance, it’d have to be substantial.
Slot money must be traded in increments of at least $250K, per the collective bargaining agreement, so we know that following this past weekend’s trade of Lillie, the Marlins were up to at least $4.55MM in pool allotments. Based on that number and the fact that Spencer indicates the Marlins are still somewhat shy, it seems reasonable to deduce that the Nats couldn’t have sent more than $2MM to Miami.
Washington opened the 2018-19 signing period with a total pool of $4,983,500 but was also barred from spending more than $300K on any one signing as penalty for significant overages in previous signing periods. Per Baseball America’s Ben Badler, the Nats had already signed three players — Jeremy de la Rosa, Yeuri Amparov and Edwin Mercedes — for their maximum $300K, and the team had made another 15 signings, though the values of those additional signings is not clear.
The Marlins have reportedly been trying to sell the brothers Mesa and Gaston on their proximity to Cuba and the strong Latin American population in the Miami area. The Fish did host the showcase for the three prospects last week, and they reportedly had personalized lockers set up in the clubhouse to help the trio visualize the possibility of playing there in the future.
While the showcase was closed to the media, Kiley McDaniel and Eric Longenhagen of Fangraphs spoke to a number of scouts who were on hand and provided a breakdown of the overall opinions of the players involved. Victor Victor Mesa’s 60-yard dash time clocked in at 6.5 seconds, placing him at a 65 to 70 on the 20-80 scouting scale, per McDaniel and Longenhagen, who pegged a 50-grade (average) on his raw power. Their detailed report, which is free to read and features plenty of detail for those interested in the group, notes that Albert Almora’s name came up as an oft-mentioned comp for the elder Mesa brother.
Gaston, meanwhile, hit 97 mph and showed better feel for his secondary offerings. The younger Mesa brother checked in a bit slower on the 60-yard dash (6.9 seconds) but had an above-average throwing arm and an above-average hit tool. Notably, McDaniel and Longenhagen write that they feel the Marlins are the favorites to land Victor Victor Mesa, which would likely make them the favorites to land Mesa Jr., as the two are said to be considered a package deal.
Well that Gausman deal was a bust
No way he takes a little bit more money to okay in Baltimore when Miami has so much Cuban culture
Cuban culture in Miami is overrated, Gurriel signed with Toronto….
Tend to agree, but is this also an attempt by the dreaded Nats to undermine the O’s? Or is that just cynicism on my part?
Anyhow, makes sense that if they get relatively equal offers from both clubs that they’d sign with Miami. A lot of sense.
No one wants to undermine the Orioles. They undermine themselves just fine.
why would any player want to sign with Miami unless all they want is money. Miami will be last for years to come.
I think the Marlins have a long ways to go still, but at this point I would rather have their future over the Orioles.
They give young players the fastest route to the majors. That’s worth a lot.
What if he wants to get away from the Cuban culture? Miami is very attached to the Cuban lifestyle, yes. But that means being closer to the place you illegally escaped from, surrounded by people more likely to have something to do with those who want to extort or undermine you, and there being a reminder of why life may not have been so great on that isolated island.
If I have to escape my country illegally by going through hell and high water – am I going to want to live my life in the place that is considered closest to it? Absolutely not.
He’s not getting away from Cuban culture, he’s getting away from socialism. Socialism is a German invention, not Cuban. Cubans just had it imposed on them by a group of thugs.
Someone looking to escape socialism is much better off in Miami than in the People’s Republic of Baltimore…which has the same brand of thugs as their home country, destroying the local economy.
Actually, Marxism not socialism. Just sayin.
Marx wasn’t a socialist?
Socialism and communism do not have the oppression and militarism in their ideological DNA that the unfortunate real-life examples of these ideas do that we’ve witnessed.
Exactly this; there has never been a socialist or communist country, as described by Mark, who was a collectivist, btw. His book describes the “dictator” stage as being a brief part of the transformation, but no country or nation has ever gotten past that stage. Native American cultures, specifically North American native cultures, are the closest we’ve seen to a true “socialist” or “communist” ideal. And that was a long time ago.
*Marx*
no baseball player wants to play in Miami, If they want players they will have to over pay them just like Colorada.
The Os are such a mess I wouldn’t sign for the extra money.
A guy going from making $35/month won’t squabble over a few bucks as he’ll feel rich anywhere he lands. And last year teams loaded up for Ohtani and he didn’t go where expected.
Ohtani was a millionaire with years of experience in making financial decisions, when he came over. And he makes more money in the off season, than he makes playing baseball.
That’s very different from young amateurs from third world countries, who tend to do whatever their agent tells them… and the agent will always take the highest money offer on the table..
Why dont they simply announce how much. At the end of the day, teams are capped in acquiring space, therefore there is a ceiling. While organizations couldn’t care less, it’s frustrating when trying to judge a deal, not knowing the details. Same with cash considerations. I just see no benefit in withholding that information.
Why on Earth would an organization care whether or not you want to know how much a deal was worth?
O’s can’t catch a break.
Another way to look at it is that the brother told Miami that they didn’t have enough to sign them, so the club is in desperation mode to scrap up the pool money.
Yep, and while the O’s are admittedly at rock bottom, they’ll be fine, just fine.
Just fine. Because they got rid of Duquette or because they have no GM right now?
The Orioles are not fine and there is nothing that has changed so far that shows they will be fine. They are simply competing with the Mets for the worst organization in baseball
They also don’t want to play in a half empty stadium. Miami has no fan base
They have a fan base, just not one that attends games on a regular basis.
They never should have dealt 750k to the Phillies for that firstbaseman. Dumb move.
Sure they can. They’re gonna get really high draft picks for many, many years to come:)
Hope that works out for Miami, Jeter came in and did what he had to do the money going out was more than what was & is coming in – previous ownership swung for the fences – these Cuban players have mostly been overrated so they better hit if the money is starting to go out again. Lease ties them to Miami so no Las Vegas Marlins in near future….
Sure did. Had to trade Yelich, a near triple crown winner in order to save three million. And that those four prospects won’t amount to a hill of beans makes the trade even more delicious. Worst trade since Tommy dealt Pedro Martinez because he is short.
Miami would’ve wasted yelich’s prime years deep in a rebuild. Who knows if he would’ve been the player he is now in Milwaukee. Brinson has been extremely disappointing but at the time it wasn’t horrible value for Yelich. It doesn’t matter for the Brewers what those 3 amount to because they got their guy.
It was horrible value for Yeloch when the deal was made
Brinson was a top 10 prospect in baseball and Diaz and Harrison were considered among the games top 100-150. It wasn’t horrible value. Brinson has been terrible but he was a highly regarded prospect. Yelich is now an MVP candidate and Brinsons stock has gone straight down but rewind a year ago and that wasn’t the case.
Hey, Tommy thought he was going to break down and he was correct … 225 wins later.
State income tax rate in Florida is 0%. What is it in Maryland? That could significantly bridge a gap (hence why CA teams are at a HUGE disadvantage).
What makes you think he will live in Florida? Just because you play in one city doesn’t mean you have to list it as your tax domicile. And is he that close to playing for the Marlins?
I’m not 100% on this but I’m pretty sure the income tax is collected by the state you work in, not the state you live in. Plus even if that isn’t true, he would still live in miami during the season therefore establishing residency.
Your right income tax goes by the state you play( work). When Gary Sheffield got traded out of Miami that one year he had something in his contract that the new team had to make up the difference of lost money to be paid in taxes because it was well over the million mark.
You are correct all players pay state income tax for ever state they play in, if that state has an income tax on a game by game. Accountant has to file about 20 state income taxes. So California and New York are not at disadvantage its all equal
I think players have to pay income taxes in all the states they play in. Obviously playing half your games in a high tax state like California or New York costs high paid players millions every year. Not sure how it works with signing bonuses for international players though.
Some states tax players for income earned there. CA, for example. So I’d the Yanks play 3 games in Anaheim the players get taxed. Ours is a ludicrous 13.3%.
Playing in Florida guarantees 81 games without state taxes plus many more in non-taxed states.
It’s taxed in Florida because that’s where it’s earned. As far as I know (which may be incorrect) all Miami players are paid for they games they play in the state and taxed accordingly. So any of the other games outside Florida are taxed at that states tax rate.
What about if you get a day off or go on the DL on a road trip?
If you dress, you made the money in that state.
The DL is a good question, but I would assume that since the player isn’t “active”, he’s earning money at home.
Mesa’s going to be playing for the Jacksonville jumbo shrimp or a lower level for at least a year or more likely 2. I can see them pushing the Cuban culture of Miami but it’s jot like the mesa’s or Gaston is going to be in Miami for years. In the younger brothers case it’s going to be a real long while.
Yeah the younger Mesa would be playing for the Orioles in Florida in the Gulf Coast league for the next couple of years at least.
A guy used to making $35/month isn’t going to care about income tax rates.
Any decent agent and advisor is. It’s what you take home that matters and the signing bonus is the only guaranteed money they’ll see.
5 percent. But players have to pay income taxes when playing on the road as well so it isn’t a whole 5 percent difference.
Also not sure where the Marlins minor league teams are located. Probably taxed in the state of the minor league team.
So if the Marlins sign the Victors Mesa then it was Barraclough for them in trade. Other than spending the pool money, the actual contracts are standard contract right? So they’d be under control for years before they hit arb or FA, right? Not sure of the rules.
So when teams trade international spending $, does the money actually change hands or just the right to spend that $?
It’s the right to spend the money. The system is in place to keep big money clubs from hogging all the top international prospects.
…also to place an artificial “cap” on bonuses paid to International Free Agents……no more Yon Moncada’s…….it’s a worthwhile restriction, but not exactly done for the highest motives……
This. It has nothing to do with competitive balance, and everything to do with reducing the pool of money spent on international players.
What does that even mean? What possible interest would small market owners have to keep the Red Sox from spending $60M on a low A prospect, except that they’re trying to stay competitive?
By all means, tell me: how do the other 29 owners benefit from the Red Sox not being allowed to spend that money, besides competitive balance?
This is what competitive balance is: a system where all teams, big market and small market, have the same chance to land prospects. That is obviously the purpose of this rule. There’s no other possible purpose for it. The ownership group has no vested interest in keeping that $60M in the Red Sox’ pocket. They just want a chance to sign guys like Moncada.
There is nothing so simple that the Orioles cannot completely f—- it up.
Word. F-word.
Is Victor Victor ready for the majors next year?
How many of these ‘can’t miss’ Cuban prospects have actually panned out? This time may be different, but it seems like the hype is usually bigger than the actual talent.
Who’s labeling guys as “can’t miss”?
Okay, lets remove the words “can’t miss”. How many recent Cuban prospects, that teams have paid vast sums of money to obtain, have panned out?
I really like the direction the Marlins are going in but their ticket to success is drafting well the next two to three years. Victor Victor at best looks like a fringe all star and Gaston seems like a reliever. Not sure about Victor Jr but he seems to have a higher ceiling then His older brother
The Os blew over a million on other trades not that long ago, after they said they we going to invest internationally.
Is there a max an international player can be signed for? I really hope the Marlins can scoop all 3 up. I would be excited as would the city of Miami. I hope this becomes a new trend for the Fish. Not just Cuban players, but Latins in general. Finally taking advantage of the latin culture in Miami.
I don’t believe there’s a max on the number of int’l players a team sign but there is a monetary limit each team is alloted. They can exceed it, but it would result in yuge penalties.
Miami has never been able to draw a crowd even in the new stadium. Orioles and Camden Yards was outdrawing the World Champion Yankees from 1997-2000. Now with Nationslas down teh road to divide the pot they are still outdrawing Yankees and Mets and have to figure Philly is just up the road. Jeter ripped apart that team that was on the upswing. orioles got rid of players that were holding them back. machado forcing O’s to play him at short when he is below average at that position.
You’re absolutely right except that the Marlins had the higher attendance during their first year at Marlins park, 2012, than the Orioles at Camden Yards in that same year..
The rest of your post made no sense.
Camden Yards also hosted a game with ZERO in attendance. Miami draws a crowd when there is an attraction. D-Train and Jose day always had a nice boost in attendance. If this ownership group can actually build something after tearing it down and NOT DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN like Loria did, then I do believe some fans will forgive and come back. Will they ever average 30K a game? Probably not. But can they hover around 18K, sure.
My comment reply was actually for the above.
Camden Yards also hosted a game with ZERO in attendance. Miami draws a crowd when there is an attraction. D-Train and Jose day always had a nice boost in attendance. If this ownership group can actually build something after tearing it down and NOT DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN like Loria did, then I do believe some fans will forgive and come back. Will they ever average 30K a game? Probably not. But can they hover around 18K, sure.
The Athletic is reporting the O’s/reports actually miscalculated and they have closer to 6mil. They are about even with the Marlins as per the report.
Funny how The marlins go through all this trouble to sign guys, develop them just to inevitably release or trade them. So what’s the point besides being a feeder system? Oh well business as usual. But I get the allure Miami sells itself for many reasons.
Hopefully the Orioles come away with some international prospects. Because for better or worse we know the Orioles will spend money on resigning their own guys. Deep breath after thinking about the Davis deal.
Or maybe they finally will build a sustainable and competitive team for the long term.