The Yankees are “open to moving” young third baseman Miguel Andujar in a trade, according to Ken Rosenthal and Robert Murray of The Athletic (Twitter link). Whether there’s a particularly likely path to that occurring remains to be seen.
It has long been presumed that the New York organization would be open to considering trade scenarios involving Andujar. At the same time, the team’s stance hasn’t always been clear. And the timing of this report increases its relevance, as the Yanks are engaged on multiple fronts in the midst of the Winter Meetings.
As Rosenthal notes, it’s not hard at all to imagine that Andujar could make up a notable part of the rumored three-team trade negotiations between the Yankees, Mets, and Marlins. That seems a speculative connection at this stage, though it certainly stands to reason that the Fish would have interest in a player who fell just shy of a Rookie of the Year Award in 2018 and could be a cornerstone for years to come.
Of course, it’s also plenty possible to imagine Andujar being utilized in other trade scenarios as the Yankees seek to add a high-end starter (while avoiding a large and lengthy contract, to the extent possible). The Indians have long marketed their enticing set of starters, though it could be that the teams have already tried and failed to line up on a deal.
Moving Andujar, of course, would also conceivably line up with a signing of superstar free agent Manny Machado — the Yanks remain engaged with him but say they’re out on Bryce Harper — though it’d hardly make such a move a sure thing. All said, possibilities abound.
You don’t trade Future Hall of Famers. See Babe Ruth.
andujar is far from a future HoF.
Vinny is pulling your chain.
He’s no Luke Voit.
Or Shane Spencer
Call me crazy, but I wouldn’t move a cornerstone type of player, a very good if not great player, to make way for someone making 30 million a year for a long term commitment.
Or Kevin Maas
Elbow The Great
Why is sarcasm always down-voted here?
Can’t say I’d be impressed to see Andujar traded and basically replaced by Machado. I don’t see a better batting line there for a shed load more money. Yanks spent a couple of years building a farm but trading most of it away
Yankee fans and their perception that all their players are future HOF is laughable.
“Sheffield is the next big thing. He will be an ace in no time”
“Oh well he never had what it took to be a big game pitcher in NY. Hes not that good anyways”
y’all change the narrative like the wind
Any signing happens, go to the comments section and at least 3 people will reply “why weren’t the yanks in on them?”
Haha we do lead baseball in most team HOFs. We’re used to winning and having great players, it’s not abnormal for us to have optimism in our young players and prospects.
“We”? You don’t have anything.
God I HATE when people say “we” yes WE as fans have everything the team does. Sorry you don’t like your team enough.
Yeah!!! I hate the WE comments. I always say
“ really… what position do YOU play”
We help finance the team. If we don’t spend money going to see games owners wouldn’t be spending as much as they do. That’s the part we play.
I can tell you from first hand experience, no one loves the Yankees (or any other team) more then their fans. I’ve been near owners and have spoken to players about the low times, and we always take it harder than they do…
I’m sad Sheffield got traded to this day. I personally wished it was Chance Adams that was traded, not that I had anything against any prospects.
??????? Wow weird post
Thats right BrewCrew they do
And Y’all need to stick to subjects that you know and not bother us with silly chatter and all of your jealousy about the Yankees……every year we’re in it is your team?
Highest payroll and spends the most interationally would be a shame if you didnt spending what you do.
Wouldn’t be a shame if you made comments based in reality.
What is “interational” spending?
That’s rich coming from a Dodger fan.
BrewCrew: And all Brewers fans amaze me at their utter lack of intelligence. Bald Vinny is a Red Sox fan and always trolls the boards here. Apparently, you lack the brainpower to see when someone is fishing for a response like yours. Luckily for him, there are Brewers fans who fall for it every time!
Do you see what I did there? I took one example of someone making a foolish and rash comment (you)and decided that every fan of that persons team was exactly like him. I am not like that however, I think the Brewers fan base might be smaller than others but most of them that I have either talked to or read the comments from (except for you) have had quite a bit of baseball knowledge.
How does the wind change narrative?
Unless of course it’s to fund a can’t miss musical like No No Nanette!
Rookie of the Year does not equal future Hall of Famer .
I don’t believe there has ever been a HOF that was a rookie of the year. Can anyone find one?
Cal Ripken. Mike Piazza. Jeff Bagwell. That’s three right there.
Eddie Murray. Carlton Fisk. Rod Carew. Luis Aparicio. Andre Dawson. Johnny Bench. Tom Seaver
Frank Robinson. Willie McCovey. And that Robinson guy the award is named after.
Orangejedi is now yourdaddy’s Daddy
BHAHAHAHAHA, omg, great reply
You do for a pitcher of Thor’s caliber/ Team-control
Torres has to be in trade for Thor
not if you read the headline of Mets get realmuto. Torres would not be needed nor will he be included.
No he doesn’t
Headline and who is in trade can be two different things . I’m saying if I’m Mets I want more than catcher for ace pitcher
I’m with you on that one Mikel… If I’m the Mets, I have to be getting more then realmuto. He’s a top 3 catcher and there’s no disputing that, but to look back on the last few years and say you parted with Thor for Realmuto, it’s going to look really bad that they didn’t make a deal a year or 2 sooner when they could get a haul. I also think there will be pieces in place to balance out the money. This won’t be an easy deal to see through if Andujar is in the 3 team.
He is going to the Marlins.
Well, they let Rob Refsnyder go for nothing, soooo…..
God that never gets old.
Actually has. Refsnyder is old news. This is the Peter O’ Brien rave review era. Get with times!
What Yankee prospect are we on? After Slade Heathcott, Chance Adams, and Brandon Drury, I can’t keep up.
Any of them are head and shoulders above Giants prospects!
At one point, the Giants had incredible prospects. They turned those guys into three World Series in five seasons.
Meanwhile, the Yankees have prospects.
Good for them, I guess.
Yankee bias is so funny.
Not as funny as Yankees hate.
No, it’s far better.
To watch Yankee fans slobber at every young player they’ve had in the past 5-6 years has been comical, to say the least.
This isn’t saying they don’t have incredible talent. But it’s almost laughable how much their fans invest into guys who became objectively bad major leaguers.
Would the Yankees trade Andujar and Frazier to the Cardinals for Michael Wacha??
Yankees would basically be getting Realmuto just to flip him again. Probably not a true 3 team trade in that regard
Realmuto was never going to the Yankees in the 3-team scenario.
Why on earth was this blatant fact downvoted?
There’s a lot of negativity here.
I think there’s cliques. Every time you correct somebody who’s a regular, his buddies down vote you without even thinking.
In the Valbuena thread, every single comment which gave nothing but simple condolences had multiple downvotes
Just use the app on your phone. You don’t see any up or down votes….it’s wonderful
What I meant was that last nights report about a three team trade didn’t mean a traditional three team trade. Yankees are instead acting like a “broker” here
Sure, but if they ended up with Thor in the end, they’re getting a lot out of being a broker.
Come to Saint Louis – I don’t care where we put him or who we move. But we will take him!
dimitrios in la
Well, yes. Several of Yanks baby bombers aren’t quite what many had hoped and predicted. Better to get some value while people are still believing the hype.
I just like watching him. Always runs out ground balls, never slumped, was pretty much the most consistent hitter on the team last year. Yeah I know his 3B metrics rank low but he’s still just 22 and can either improve or be moved to a different position.
If you are talking about andujar. He gave more than expected in year 1. He beat any hype.
dimitrios in la
Offensively, sure. On the defensive side of the ball he looked really sub-par. (O’s fan here so saw him my fair share by way of the division.)
Dimitiros come on. The Yankees prospects have done about as well or better as expected. It’s the orioles top guys who let me down this year. Sisco and Hays fell off the face of the Earth. Andujar posted a nearly 3 win season and Torres did much of the same at 2B. They performed well. Who didn’t? Frazier because of concussions and lack of opportunities? The Yankees have been hitting on plenty of guys. You have to be objective. They’ve done well with their prospects recently.
Will Jeter be 1 for 4, find out on the next episode of the Marlins Rebuild !
curious who you consider the 1 good one? certainly not yelich
Stanton’s salary dump.
I’d call getting Andujar+ for JTR a win
He hasn’t had the 1 yet. That was the point of the comment.
Andujar for Realmuto is beyond lopsided. It’s crazy talk.
If the Mets were interested in Andujar straight up for Syndergaard, then maybe. Though even that is iffy, because “Thor” is one of the most fragile pitchers in the majors, and even when he’s healthy, he’s more of a no. 2 than a true ace.
But to give up Andujar for Realmuto, and then give up a lot more to make the deal work for the Mets (they aren’t interested in Syndergaard straight up for Realmuto, obviously, they would want at least Betances and Sonny Gray thrown in), would just be silly.
If this deal is to work, it’s gonna work like this: Clint Frazier and prospects for Realmuto, and then Realmuto plus a couple of rentals (probably Gray and Betances, because the Yankees shouldn’t have much trouble replacing Betances) for Syndergaard.
Unfortunately your perception of realmuto’s value isn’t the industry perception. He has a much higher price tag than what you’ve proposed.
You can pretend to know what “the industry perceives” and spew other such vagueries all you want.
Thing is, the “industry” uses numbers to price players. A somewhat simplistic math, for instance, puts Realmuto’s vaue at $50M. That’s $10M per win above replacement the analysts expect him to produce, minus his projected salary.
And I assure you, Andujar is worth a lot more than $50M.
only yankees fans think that Clint Frazier has value
What is your definition of an ace?? If Thor is a 2? 30 teams all have. A #1 . Thor would be #1 for how many teams?
Thor would be a #1 on the Yankees, injury concerns or not.
$10 Million per Win Above Replacement is high by 10-15%.
Stans- I am merely reiterating information that has been delivered ad nauseum by most baseball journalists. I’m certainly not “spewing” vague information and misquoting you, much like you have. In fact, your last assertion of Andujar’s value is the definition of vague. Based on what info exists, your proposal would not suffice the Marlins’ high asking price.
There are two types of rotations in the majors: the ones built to try and get to the playoffs, and the ones built to lose, but hopefully do so without total embarrassment. I’m talking about no. 2 in the first kind of rotation, not the second. He would easily be no. 1 on teams that have no desire to be competitive. But, then again, so would Sonny Gray.
In my book, an ace is someone who consistently pitches 200 innings, and ranks top 25 in ERA- while doing it.
Stans- I am merely reiterating information that has been delivered ad nauseum by most baseball journalists.
Baseball journalists have no clue what they’re talking about.
Okay…how, then, do you propose that we baseball fans go about getting our info? You are aware that you’re currently commenting on a site that works in the business of compiling reports of baseball journalists, yes?
Rechter, if you want reliable info you clearly go to stansfield123. Stan has you covered. Don’t listen to any of Ken Rosenthal’s reports. He has no idea what is going on. Maybe Next time you won’t look so foolish if you give Stan a ring. He knows the market better than anyone.
The average cost of a WAR is less than $10M, yes, but there tends to be a premium on really high end guys. And Realmuto is the most in-form catcher in the world right now. So $10M seems fair.
Not that it matters. It doesn’t change the fact that Andujar is worth much, much more than that. Not gonna bother speculating about an exact number, but up to twice as much.
Okay…how, then, do you propose that we baseball fans go about getting our info?
Fangraphs has some very good articles, that cover various methods the actual front offices use to price players in minute detail. You can find stuff on there that would never come out of a sports journalist’s mouth.
It’s a lot of complex analysis, but if you have the patience to read it, you can understand it. You don’t need a degree in math or Statistics for it, it’s explained in layman’s terms.
Oh yeah, and think for yourself, of course. Use the various projection systems (from multiple sites, fangraphs is one of them) for the numbers, and do the math for yourself. You’ll quickly figure out that you’re way smarter than the average sports journalist (sports journalists are the guys who couldn’t make it as political journalists…and that says a lot, when you realize that political journalists ain’t that bright either).
Well to be fair, some baseball journalists/pundits make a lot of dumb comments. On Sirius MLB the other day two hosts were saying the Mets should deal Syndergaard for Realmuto straight up because and I quote” this is your year to try and win and you have to make this trade”.
I get that Realmuto is a perceived as stud catcher, but that’s because there is not a lot of premium MLB talent at his position. I’d much prefer the Mets keep Syndergaard and sign Grandal or Ramos with D’Arnaud as backup. I suspect either FA catcher could be signed for a two-three year deal.
This trade also does not necessarily make the Mets better from a WAR perspective; it’s a wash, Syndergaard in 25 starts last year had a WAR of 4.2 and Realmuto had a WAR of 4.8. Both are projected by Steamer for 3.7 WAR. If healthy, both are capable of more. If the Mets trade Syndergaard than either Lugo or Gsellman is going to have to offer the same level of production in the starting rotation (unlikely) and you going to have to spend more on your bullpen.
Only Sawx homers think Swihart is worth a damn.
A lot to unpack there. I do engage with all systems and means you’ve suggested. However, you seem to be equating a player’s accumulated war to dollar value as the going rate that player serves on the marketplace. Obviously, though, demand and other factors can alter the price tags on players such as Realmuto. We, then, have to look for what teams ARE asking for, not what they should be asking for. In these cases, no amount of data sheets can get me into a room with baseball front offices. The only reporting we can actually obtain about a player’s effective value, as opposed to his perceived value, is through drip fed messages from baseball journalists, imperfect as they may be.
Yes, but smart GMs like Cashman don’t go by altered prices. They go by objective prices. That’s how you make smart deals: by saying no when somebody’s market value is driven up higher than his actual on field value, because of a bidding war.
That’s why he said no to Corbin. Only really bad execs, like Levine and Hank Steinbrenner (and sports journalists) “go with the flow”, instead of the on field facts. Yanks need to refrain from Ellsbury type contracts, and pay attention to numbers.
By the way, here’s a site that compiles various projection systems onto one page, for each player. It even assigns a dollar value to the player, so you don’t have to do math:
Andujar was worth $22M this year. He is projected to be worth between $17M and $25M next year (varies by source). He has FIVE YEARS of team control.
So Realmuto would have to average 6 WAR in the next two years, to be worth as much. So far, he’s been averaging 3.2, and his best year was 4.3.
If you were responding to me I’m not looking it from a WAR to dollar value. I get that that Realmuto’s perceived value is higher since there is a lack of talent at that position and Jeter feels he needs to get a better return than he did for Yelich.
Looking at both players past season and projected WAR for next year, they deliver approximately equal value to any team that has them.. The Mets have other options to upgrade their catcher through FA without making their starting rotation and bullpen worse by trading Thor..
Agreed that Thor and Realmuto deliver equal value next year. But Thor is under control for three years, Realmuto only two.
That’s why the Yanks would need to throw in Gray and Betances, to balance out the deal.
As for Andujar, his value depends on who you listen to. That’s always been the case, some people like him, some don’t. But, in the past two-three years, he out-performed even the most optimistic reports. So I think his value is closer to $25M, than to the low projection of $17M, next year. And his total value is close to $100M.
That’s all well and good stans, and I am a huge proponent of utilizing such data to draw conclusions on value, but the history of the mlb marketplace is rife with examples of over and under payments. Deals are hardly ever purely mathematical, and are adjusted based on current and future needs. That’s my point; I can use this data to infer what realmuto should cost, but not what he will cost. Hence, we go the route of interpreting baseball journalists reports as prudently and objectively as possible. Again, an imperfect system, but the only means we truly have available.
The industry overvalues realmuto.
I heard a guy on the radio state that they should attempt to package him with Ellsbury simply to shed the salary. Wouldn’t be a terrible plan even if the return was next to nothing. Opens more money up to sign Machado
Yankees don’t need more money for Machado. Sure, Ellsbury is dead money but only for two more years. Andujar might be at the height of his value due to age, years of control, and performance. Why taint that by packaging him with Ellsbury?
Plus the Yanks have a insurance policy on Ellsbury. That’s why he didn’t play last yr
How in the Hell did you come with that, other than pure conjecture?
I strongly disagree. The Yanks are not a cash strapped team. They likely knew Ellsbury was going to be a of no real benefit to them last year and still traded for Stanton. They probably expect nothing of him for 2019 which is why they resigned Gardner who will either start LF or, imo, be the 4th OF. So why trade a valuable asset like Andujar just to shed Ells salary? IF Andujar gets traded it should be to acquire a FOR type of starter.
If you assume the Hal Steinbrenner Yankees are operating under a budget, which has been plain to see for quite some time, then how does it matter whether or not they are ‘cash strapped’? They might have all the cash in the world, but if they won’t go over $206 million in salary then their resources are finite. In that regard, attaching Andujar to an Ellsbury salary dump might make perfect sense if it allows them to fit Machado into their budget. You upgrade at 3b without losing additional prospects while still staying within budget.
That said, my preferred use of Andujar would involve the acquisition of an ace starting pitcher along with the signing of Machado. Just difficult to see how that might work with the Yankee’s self-imposed budget.
I think for the right player they go over the Luxury Tax. They just reset their tax, Ellsbury and Tanaka will come off the books in a couple years (~$44M/year), gardner and CC are probably gone after this season (~$15.5M for 2019) and chapman gone (~$17M/season) in 3 years.
Assuming Stanton doesn’t opt out (which I doubt he will), they have plenty of cash coming off the books in the coming seasons to reset their tax line if they wind up going over. Couple that with an increase in the tax threshold and its a small impact.
I know the Yanks wanted to reset the lux tax fine that would’ve had them pay .50 on the dollar this winter. That’s not the same as having a hard cap budget.
It also doesn’t make sense because no team looks at their budget from year to year. When they decided whether to acquire Stanton they absolutely factored in what they had in 2018 and who might be available in 2019, 2020, etc.
Please don’t confuse a reset with a restrictive budget. There’s no way I can believe that Cashman didn’t anticipate the need for Corbin or some other major acquisition. That’s not to say that there’s SOME limit but I doubt it stops at $206 mil if a guy like Harper or Manny end up falling short of a $325 mil contract.
It could be they might forego a Harper or Manny but then sign multiple guys to short-term deals. I would be ok with …
Markakis or Brantley in LF
Happ or Morton
2 of Robertson, Britton, Miller, etc
Iglesias or Hecchavarria at SS until Didi returns
Yea those moves will bring more fans out.
The Yankees spent more than any other team in the last 12 years. How exactly does that pattern lead a reasonable person to conclude that it’s “plain to see” that they’re gonna be stingy from now on?
Yankees don’t acquire players thinking “this will bring in more fanboys”. They bring in players that they feel will make the team better.
So the Yankees aren’t looking to add new fans or increase attendance and viewership. Interesting business model…smh When did you write ther goals?
Ellsbury is dead money on cap.But insurance has paid his salary past year. Part of getting under the cap, was to cut on penalty tax. So as long as Ellsbury on DL, Yanks only paying tax penalties over cap, if/when team goes over cap
Insurance has nothing to do with payroll.
Here we go. Thor to the Yanks. Andujar and Realmuto to the Mets. Prospects from the Yanks and mabye one from the Mets to MIA.
That means you’re valuing Realmuto higher than Syndergaard and…. no.
Mets trade Thor for Realmuto and Andujar.
Yanks trade Andjuar and prospects for Thor.
There’s no way Realmuto is more valuable than Thor but I guess it depends on how much you value Andujar.
Also, I don’t think this is necessarily a good deal for the Mets, who should probably just keep Thor and sign Grandal. I’m saying this looks like what might be taking shape.
Oh my bad I misread. But imo, if the Mets can get both Andujar and Realmuto for Syndergaard they should take it in a heartbeat. I see that as almost an overpay. But yes, I do value 5 years of Andujar very highly. Probably more highly than Realmuto.
Would love to see Andujar wearing Cubbie Blue.
How about Thor in cubbie blue?
They need a frontline starter/innings eater, and if Andujar is used in a trade it should be for Kluber.
Exactly the Mets & Marlins can have each other. Kluber and Kipnis for Andujar
If you are attaching Kipnis, you are not getting Andujar.
You act like 3/68 for Kluber is unfathomable. That’s all it is once you attach kipnis and that’s placing zero value on Kippy.
If the Yanks were to take on Kipnis’s contract and give up Andujar, that would mean they would have to sign a new 3b, which would probably be Machado. So between Kluber, Machado and Kipnis you are talking about at least 60 million for those 3 players.
Yeah they don’t get Andujar if the Yanks have to eat a bad contact.
No I don’t disagree with you. Kippy’s money is only for a season and you’re the NYY so you can easily do that. That was more of me making people aware that kipnis’ contract isn’t some black hole for Multiple years that’s going to pull kluber’s value way down. It softens the blow but it’s not a cano contract attached.
Because the way free agency is going the last two seasons, the Yanks can get a better 2B for the same or a lot less on a one year deal.
Btw, Kipnis has a 2.5 buyout next year. So he would cost 17 million for one year.
It’s a slight overpay, but Cashman would say yes to that. Kipnis is not a dead contract, he is worth at least half the money he’s owed. So it’s only an overpay by a few mill.
Trouble is, the Indians are looking for a big overpay. That’s their play, and odds are it’s gonna work. Somebody’s gonna pay a wildly inflated price. (not gonna be the Yanks, they’re smart).
bj82: So between Kluber, Machado and Kipnis you are talking about at least 60 million for those 3 players.
So? That would still be less than the Red Sox current payroll.
And the Yankees have about $200M more in revenues than the Sox, each year.
They’d then add Kimbrel and D-Rob, and call it a great off-season.
I will be more than happy to have Syndergaard for Andujar. Who knows, maybe Klubes isn’t on the table with the Yanks. Add Syndergaard, sign Machado- best offseason since 09.
You can’t get Syndergaard for Andujar. You can get Realmuto for Andujar, and then you have to add to that, to get Syndergaard.
That’s why this notion is crazy. The Yankees should insist on getting Realmuto for prospects. It’s gonna take pretty much everything they have left (Frazier, Florial, Loaisiga, Abreu), but it should be enough.
Andujar doesn’t belong in this trade.
Only problem.is the Yankees don’t want Realmuto and they surely won’t trade for Realmuto so they than have to trade him and all their prospects to get Syndegard. Thats just crazy Your suggesting Andujar Frazier Florial Loasiga and Abreu for Syndegard .I didnt realize Thor was the second coming of Sandy Koufax
I’d rather Syndergaard than Kluber., especially with how the Yankees are apparently looking to operate from a financial standpoint moving forward.
Only thing that makes Kluber scary to deal for is the decline in some of his numbers.
White sox please trade for andujar, take on ellsbury’s contract, then sign Harper
Who are the White Sox giving back? Abreu?
They don’t have any other MLB pieces that would make the Yankees better besides him. Maybe Nate Jones plus some younger talent?
I fully acknowledge that my idea was flawed lol the White Sox just badly need some stability at the Hot Corner
Abreu does not make the Yanks better. He’s old and declining very fast. Can’t really play 1B anymore.
If you ask me, he’s never really been able to play first base. He had a torrid second half at the plate and he’s always been great against lefties (.910 career OPS)
Certainly not a fair return for a young controllable talented 3B like Andujar but….if the Sox were taking on ~$20mil for Ellsbury I think it would be a decent starting point
There is only one way the Yankees would be interested in moving Ellsbury: in a salary swap (for Greinke, for instance…they were also interested in swapping him for Cano, so I’m guessing they’d also do it for other position players who hit left handed, like Carlos Santana or Belt).
The notion that the richest club in baseball would attach their starting third baseman to a bad contract, just to get rid of it, is beyond silly.
Dumb to trade him unless part of a package for for a top SP
Carlos Martinez and Matt Carpenter for Andujar and a truckload of solid prospects to STL.
Um… yea I’ll take that as a Yanks fan. But the Cards have made it clear that they are attempting to contend.
uhhhhhhhh, the Cards are trying to win buddy
“Excuse me???” – Paul Goldschmidt
3 way trade, Andujar to Marlins, Realmuto to Mets, Syndergaard to Yanks.
Yankees fan, I assume.
5 years of Andujar is worth more than Syndergaard.
Noooooo it is not. Yankees fan here.
Ha! You really think that?
Guys judge Judy is the biggest troll pay no mind
It’s not. Compare their last yr war.
It’s not like it’s one year, it’s three.
Smart move trade him while he is at his highest value. His defense is sub par at third and his offense is best he will ever do.
He’s an all around better player than Gleyber Torres. I wouldn’t trade either of them though. Andujar isn’t home run or strike out like the majority of the team so makes no sense to get rid of him
Andujar isnt a well rounded player at all.
Let’s talk in 3 years about who is the better player. Would put my entire savings on Torres.
I like Andujar, but like Brixton said, he’s far from a well-rounded player. His super aggressive approach may cut down on strikeouts, but it also massively cuts down on his ability to get on base. Couple that with one of the most profoundly poor seasons of fielding at the hot corner in recent memory, and you actually have a very one-dimensional player whose value may never be higher.
I’m not sure what you’ve been watching, but Torres is miles ahead of Andujar defensively, and his bat is right there with Miggy’s. I’m a big Andujar fan and I hope they don’t trade him, but Torres is the better all around player and it’s not really close.
I wonder why people see Torres as being capable of improving but not Andujar. From what I’ve read Andujar is a super hard working kid. Heard it from Arod, a couple of the coaches and some guys on MLB network who’s names escape me.
Andujar reminds me a lot of a RH Cano type of player. He can hit any pitch you throw and hit it with power. Cano didn’t crack a 6% walk rate until his 6th season and while he always had a canon of an arm his glove was always rated below average his first few seasons. I also remember all the calls to trade him too.
Cashman needs to listen on all trade proposals for every single player. That being said, I would like them to hold on to Andujar and sign a FA pitcher. Anytime you have a talent like Andujar who understands his flaws but gets props for working hard doing the drills, seeking help from coaches and former players I feel they have the ability to improve. If he can get his glove to average and can increase his BB rate to 7-10% he can be a 5 WAR player imo. He was a 2.7 WAR player as a rookie with a 4% BB rate and a poor glove. I think he has a lot more upside left and keeping him can save a lot of money that could be spent elsewhere.
I agree 100% with you on Andujar. Everyone talks about him like he’s a finished product with no hope of ever improving his fielding. If you look at Adrian Beltre’s fielding numbers when he was 23 they are very similar to Andujar’s last season. I’m not saying he’ll be Beltre, but he has a very high ceiling, he says and does all the right things and works extremely hard so there’s no reason to think he can’t get better at third. My point was that right now Torres is the much more complete player, but I think Andujar can catch up very quickly. I’m really hoping they don’t go vintage Yankees and trade him just so they can bring in Machado and I think a lot of other Yankees fans are underestimating his potential. Keep him at third, sign Keuchel, use the rest of free agency to bolster the bullpen and they should be set for a very exciting 2019 season.
Sounds like somebody doesn’t think “Stone Hands” Andujar will get much better with the glove at 3rd base, even with his ability with the bat. `The Yanks already have one $300 million contract on the books (Stanton) which he will NEVER opt out of. Their weakness is the quality of their starting pitching so then need to get somebody big. If James Paxton is their “BIG” offseason acquisition for pitchers, they will still be behind the Red Sox.
Or they think they can use his value, and Machado’s availability, to acquire an ace and improve at two positions for nothing more than money– preserving what remains of their farm system.
I’ve been pushing for Andujar to be moved since the season ended, and I believe he’ll be a great player (though certainly not a hall of famer).
I don’t think that at all. Cashman didn’t say he was shopping Andujar. But what’s the cost of listening to offers for any of the players? He’s not going to trade him for nothing.
I would hate to see andujar go. But with Yankees potential starting rotation. You may not need a defense behind you
And if you did, Andujar would not be your guy.
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I just read a really awesome article on The Ringer about trading prospects. It basically evaluated teams that trade their top prospects and charted their performance as MLB’ers.
Basically, it showed a huge correlation that if a team trades a “top” prospect, that player will bomb out very frequently. It goes to the information imbalance that exists with teams’ own prospects and that certain guys are never tradable, even if they aren’t “top” prospects on any public lists.
If the Yankees are really ready to deal Andujar, they likely believe he isn’t a cornerstone piece and maybe headed to 1B/DH as some people are saying.
Google The Ringer’s Why Trading for Top Prospects Is Less of a Win Than MLB Teams Seem to Think, if you want to check out the article. NOTE: I have no affiliation whatsoever with Ringer, but thought it was a super timely and neat article.
Also, surprisingly, the best top prospect ever traded in the last few decades in terms of WAR? Kenny Lofton.
Except that Andujar is not a prospect. He is a proven major leaguer.
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Yes, and Andrew Bailey, Chris Coghlan, and Wil Myers were even better when they won the Rookie of the Year Award. One year doesn’t make a “proven MLB’er”, but it’s a good start.
By the way, Yankee fans, it talks about how Florial is probably really the Yankees’ top prospect by far, since they won’t even talk about dealing him for anyone, even when injured.
tbf, Myers and Bailey are hardly ever healthy, but I see your point
Yes, one year does make a proven MLBer. It doesn’t make him a career superstar, but he has proven he can play at a high level in the majors. Heck, lots of player have done well for more than 1 season only to completely implode.
Dontrelle Willis and Jason Bay are two good examples.
Nobody is ever a lock, no amount of “proven time” is.a guarantee. But it’s just silly to say Andujar is a prospect when he’s played a full season and nearly won the ROY.
He’s a major leaguer, end of story.
In Wil Myers first full season he had 28 hrs and hit a 259.In Chris Coglans first full season he hit 16 hrs and hit a 250.In Miguel Andujars first season he had 27 hrs and a 297 ba . So I guess when you said even better you meant not as good.Good point though
Andujar isn’t a prospect. And it could mean that the Yanks are, after all, still very much keyed on Machado to be their long term 3B and realizing that adding a guy like Syndergaard (25) with Severino (24).would not only be great for now but for a long many years from now (where they still will be team controlled). And that by doing so they can ‘afford’ to give Machado that monster contract.
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That makes a ton of sense and it will be interesting to see who wins the Yankees/Phillies bidding war for Machado.
Andujar, Florial, and Frazier for Bumgarner and Belt.
think the Yankees are overpaying there
Whoa. First crazy trade I think I’ve ever seen proposed on this site where the Yankees were the ones getting ripped off!
Bumgarner and Panik for Andujar and Gray.
Yankees get their topline pitcher and a cheap, established 2B to fill in while Gregorius is on the shelf. Giants get a young 3B and a one year, bounce back candidate in Gray.
Essentially you’re saying Andujar for Bum. C’mon, dude.
Sorry, it should have read “Andujar and Gray +”
I still think Bum for Miggy is an overpay for the Yanks. 5 years of control for 1 year of Bum? If Andujar was a prospect, maybe, but not after the season he had.
Then you’d be wrong.
Yankees: Syndergaard and Frazier and Prado
Mets: Realmuto, Gray, Frazier, prospects
Marlins: Andujar, Nimmo/Conforto, prospects
Closer. Still not very close though, as the Yanks aren’t giving up near enough (unless those “prospects” are Florial and Loaisiga). Also, Frazier appears to be playing for two teams.
Yea, as a Yankees fan, I see a fair straight up deal to be Andujar, Florial, and a guy like Mike King as a baseline. Also in that scenario listed before, Mets are giving up too much and not getting enough back. Andujar+ Nimmo/ Conforto is too much for Realmuto.
The Todd Father (Todd Frazier) is the guy that the Yankees would be getting.
I meant Todd
That’s insane. Andujar isn’t a prospect. He was a 3 WAR player last year with 5 years of control. I can’t see them adding Florial to it. And I’m pretty sure they would not want to take on the salary of either Frazier ($8 mil) nor Prado ($15 mil). They were both awful last year.
Pssst I think you have Frazier going to the Mets and staying with the Yanks……Or is there another Frazier you have in mind??
Could be Todd Frazier, I assume.
Clint Frazier probably
For what it’s worth I think Andujar will be a great player for whoever he winds up playing. He’ll never be a plus defender, but I think he’ll improve, and eventually be competent enough to stay at third base.
I also think his offense will continue to improve. It’s worth remembering that he wasn’t even supposed to play in 2018– Drury was originally supposed to hold down the hot corner while Andujar worked on his defense in the minors.
I used to hear how Hensley Meulens was going to crush MLB pitching
Why? All stick, no glove guys are what the Yankee love…
Texas needs to jump on this.
Mets get: Realmuto, Hicks
Yankees get: Syndergaard, McNeill
Marlins get: Andujar, Nimmo, Frazier
Marlins are getting a heck of a lot for *just* giving up JTR.
I mean thats potentially 3 quality regulars who are MLB ready for 2 years of one guy who’s not really elite
I agree but everyone else gets what they want.
Yankees fill their SP need and their 2nd base hole with Gleyber covering SS and they can go out and sign Manny.
Mets get their catcher and a great CF
Marlins get players they can rebuild around
Wait, Mets are giving up Thor, McNeill and Nimmo for Realmuto and Hicks?
Hicks replaces Nimmo and you have Cano at 2B and Thor would be the big piece moving in a Realmuto swap so it isn’t totally bananas.
Hahaha Hicks replaces Nimmo? You must have taken a mighty big hit before typing that out.
Thor for Realmuto and Hicks alone wouldn’t work.
Why would the Yanks trade their only CF? Hicks was the 5th best CF in WAR last year and arguably their best player on both sides of the ball.
You Yankee fans suddenly put a pretty high value on Andujar, thinking you can trade him straight up for Syndergaard. A week ago you were going to send him packing for peanuts just to get Machado for third. Next thing you’ll be saying he’s not too bad on defense and with a little work could be the next Brooks Robinson.
I dont think any reasonable person is saying he has the same value as Syndergaard. He’d be a good centerpiece though.
Scroll up. That’s what half the people are saying in this thread with the three-way deal. Of course, I don’t’ think we’re talking about reasonable people here. I just saw an Andujar for Bumgarner offer.
MadBum is not getting better if you asked me
syndergaard is injury prone. Still a great pitcher but I’d easily move him for andujar. Every Day #3 hitters with control you just don’t find every day. Andujars rookie year compared favorably to Dimaggio’s. Think about that…..
we Met fans had Keith Hernandez. We haven’t had that kind of Natural hitter like that since. Andujar is #3 hitter and his power is just developing. It’s dangerous to move Syndergaard. I understand that but until he learns that pitching is not throwing balls past everybody but using all his pitches and using his brains to maneuver through a lineup, he’ll never be the pitcher he could be.
that’s Why I’d do it. And I love Syndy, but to get an emerging talent like Andujar, as a hitter he’s as good as Machado at a fraction of the cost
Oh yeah neftleberg he’s as good as Machado if Machado forgets how to play defense.
Once again Learn to read Jbigz. I said: “as a hitter he’s as good as Michael at a fraction of the cost” until you learn to read Jbigz you’ll continue to be an imbecile. And you usually are.
Do yourself a favor go look up machado’s rookie year Andujar easily is better. And Manny wasn’t all that defensively at first either. He got better over time. Andujar will too
So learn to read you idiot
Machado was 19 and not physically mature. Wanna argue andujar isn’t physically mature? That was expected for Machado and he was long known for his glove. You’re sold on andujar as a stud. Alright. I’ll bet he isn’t but hey that’s fine. You wanna give up Thor for him go right ahead. Yankees can make their team significantly better w Thor or Kluber and Machado at 3rd. They’d upgrade their rotation and 3B. I hope the deal happens for the Yankees as a neutral 3rd party.
Does Thor come with health issues?
? When did anyone say they’d give up Andujar for peanuts? And just to get Machado? What does that even mean? Machado is a free agent, they can just sign him if they really wanted Machado. Why would they need to dump Andujar?
What does that even mean? It’s as simple as white bread. There have been so many posts about how he’s garbage because he costs more runs on defense than he earns on offense, and if it could get Machado he’s persona non grata.
If you sign Machado, where you gonna play Andujar? You’re going to let Didi go and keep Machado at short? You realize what that would do to the left side defense of your infield? You can’t play Andujar at DH when that’s the rotation from your outfield. This isn’t a video game.
Point to one that’s not coming from a none Yankee fan that says the Yankees should just dump Andujar for a bag of popcorn?
And,…again…what does signing Machado have to do with just giving Andujar away for nothing? What are you not getting?
Has nothing to do with needing to move Andujar if they sign Machado. They do. But they don’t have to give him away. Does this help clarify things?
You’re the one who was initially confused, moo. However, I’m glad you clarified that now because teams are suddenly interested in your current third baseman you guys are holding him up like Simba at the beginning of The Lion King.
Nobody has said for peanuts. I’ve been an advocate of trading Andujar for a while, because he could potentially net you a top arm. But never said to just give him away. Bad defense or not, he’s got a TON of value.
I don’t recall any Yanks fan suggesting Andujar would be traded for anything less than a Kluber/Bauer type pitcher. Please stop.
Andujar should only be traded if they getting Kluber, Bauer, DeGrom or Bumgarner nobody else
MadBum is not the same guy as he was a few years ago. Kluber is already 33.
I used to agree, but Thor is 25, was a #1a type pitcher, and has 3 years of control. That’s pretty valuable.
Tumbleweeds in Las Vegas. Must. Generate. News. And. Clicks.
I think the thing Cashman loves about landing Thor even more than the talent is the flexibility you will have to dominate the free agent market for years to come. To avoid spending huge on an elite pitcher while getting elite pitching production is arguably the best bargain in baseball. Yes you will pay for it if your trading to get it, but once you have it, its a huuuuge load off a teams shoulders
P.S. I really pray we get Scooter Gennett.
This. Controllable elite pitching is like having a good rookie QB in the NFL. Frees up so much money elsewhere.
Yes. This is why I think he’d have no (or a lot less) problem dealing someone like Andujar for Syndergaard than many of the other older and more expensive starters (that may be on par or better than Syndergaard is right now).
I wouldn’t move andujar, .300/35/100 players with control are incredibly valuable. proof of this is both met fans and marlin fans seem to think they are the team getting Andujar. That 5 years of control and talent level make Angular the most valuable player in the trade.
The defense argument is just a way to try and obscure that value. If the Yankees wouldn’t trade Gray Sanchez for Realmuto straight up and Cashman wouldn’t even consider that, then it’s obvious that Elite hitters with control like Andujar is way more valuable than most fans are willing to admit.
And I’m a Met fan. Andujar is a ten year cornerstone. And his power is just developing. He could be a 40 plus he guy in 2 years
Florial staight up for Realmuto is the only deal I’d do
Agreed. I think if they move Andujar it’s going to be for an absolute monster haul. I wouldn’t count out the idea of them acquiring a prospect or two in the deal, on top of whatever pitcher they are looking for.
A lot a people’s opinion on Yankees players are made with a bias against the Yankees. Very rarely you see non Yankees fans praising Yankees players. For them, all Yankees prospects suck and the MLB players are not that good.
That’s simply not true. For a lot of Yankees fans on here all Yankees prospects are some kind of superstars in the making. Even now with their middle of the pack system fans will rave up and down about how much talent they have in the minors.
As for Andujar, sure, I trust the Yankee analytics department to make the decision on where his ceiling is defensively, and how much bad third base defense is hurting the pitching staff. They have smart people working a full time job analyzing just that kind of stuff, so I’m not gonna pretend to know better than they do.
But if they do decide he’s not viable at 3B, it better be a good trade. Because even if he’s hurting you at third, his bat has massive value at a different position (1B, corner outfield, DH, whatever). There’s no question that he’s a plus hitter. He was the Yanks most consistent producer, in 2018. No slumps, no ups and downs, he just kept hitting and hitting at a constant pace. He could easily end up a top tier hitter….we’re talking 1,000 OPS from now until he’s 30.
So Kluber, sure. deGrom, sure. Bauer by himself, hard no. Syndergaard nope…not unless there’s something more than just him, coming to the Yanks.
Thor automatically becomes the Yankees ace…
What? Sevy has 10 WAR, and 140 ERA+ in 385 innings, in the last two years.
“Thor” has 4.6 WAR, and 124 ERA+ in 185 innings.
I’d slow down a bit. Sure, he could be a 1.000 ops hitter. But that’s highly unlikely. He’s coming off his best offensive season, you have to wait and see how pitchers adjust to him before you really know what he is as a hitter.
He’s been a major leaguer for exactly 1 year, so you can’t say “He’s coming off his best offensive season”.
I was including his entire professional career
Huh? Wait so you’re comparing what? His minor league stats as he moved across the various levels of the minor league system? You do know that if a player puts up the same stats as he advances through rookie ball all the way through his rookie year in the majors that it means he’s actually getting better right? And Andujar has actually done his best in his rookie season in the majors.
And I’m not even an Andujar fan.
That’s exactly what I said
Like they didn’t adjust to him throughout last year? That’s why this kid is so good. as pitchers adjusted to him throughout the year Andujar adjusted right back and improved. Look at his damn monthly splits. Some people don’t research like at all.
He was their best hitter, and it wasn’t even close
That’s not how it works. Pitchers aren’t going to pitch him next year like they did this year. Just like Torres. Just like Ohtani. Just like Acuna. To act like he, or anyone for that matter, are going to just continually improve without having to deal with serious adjustments is extremely rare.
That’s why you are wrong you’re assuming that pitchers didn’t adjust to him last year. But they did. Stop being so lazy look at his splits. And it is rare, but that’s why I want Andujar because he adjusted right back and got better
JDgoat, it’s funny your named for Donaldson and yet you don’t see that Andujar is a young Donaldson JD wasn’t all that when the Jays for him. they identified a great hitter, like Andujar is and went and got him. You wait and you lose the opportunity. Anthopoulous was smart he saw what JD could be and acted.
You mean just like how looking at stats throughout a minor league career and seeing that his numbers in rookie ball doesn’t look that much different from AA and AAA and the majors doesn’t mean he’s not improving?
Donaldson was in fact all that. Billy beane let personal opinions rub him the wrong way so he dumped him for much less than he should’ve. Horrible comp because donaldsons D was always rock solid as well. Nowhere near a similar path. Age/skillset/background nothing is similar.
Donaldson was one of the biggest stars in the game at the time of the trade. What are you talking about?
The great thing about hitters LIKE Andujar (Cano, Vlad) is that they can hit anything you throw. He has GREAT “contactability”. Time will tell but I love his hit tools.
Not basing it on numbers. The numbers say that 1,000 OPS hitters are extremely unlikely, obviously.
I’m basing it on watching him hit all year. His ability to hit the ball, wherever it is pitched, is on Vlad Guerrero’s level. And he hits it almost as hard…he will no doubt hit it just as hard, as he gets stronger with age.
In the history of tracking advanced metrics (since 2002), only 3 players have ever put up worse seasons at 3B.
Two of those players (Nick Castellanos & Ryan Braun) ended up being moved away from third. The other, Garrett Atkins, continued to play 3B, but his innings were cut in half the next season.
Leaving Andujar there would be downright foolish, maybe even detrimental to the team’s success long term. They need to move him away from that spot.
Giants in the midwest. Not true, if he hits well enough you make the sacrifice. You have longoria and panda. So it seems you don’t follow your own advice
“it seems you don’t follow your own advice”
I don’t run the Giants. So I can’t follow any “advice”.
Also, in what universe is that a real comparison? Longoria saved 7 runs at 3B last year. Andujar cost his team 26.
He created 94 runs last year and he cost them 26. That’s a total of 68. Among qualified 3B, he’s 18th, between Jeimer Candelario and Matt Duffy. And only two spots ahead of Longoria.
He’s not a 3B. He shouldn’t and likely won’t be one by the end of 2019.
Please do not trade Andujar
Andujar is a DH. Trouble is the Yanks have Stanton as the DH for the next 9 years.
His defense isn’t good but it can improve.he has time. Andujar is by far the best hitter we would have in our lineup if we had him and it’s not even close. We played Asdrubal Cabrera who was a sub par defender for years and he was never the pure hitter that Andujar is.
There’s a lot of bogus posturing going on here by my fellow met fans here. To get a true Stud, who is controllable and only getting better, is a no brainer
I’m with you if a Thor trade somehow lands the Mets Andujar. I’m not a fan of trading Thor to land Realmuto. There are two decent FA catchers (Ramos and Grandal) out there that are an upgrade of D’Arnaud and Plawelki.
Jwt. I agree. You only move Thor if you get a young Controllable Stud you can build around. realmuto is controlled for only 2 seasons. And while he’s good he isn’t all that. Andujar is already a better hitter than Realmuto
You only trade andujar for a ace Thor is no ace plus he never can stay healthy. It be a bad move for yAnkees. If you don’t trade andujar two years ago for verlander or last year for Cole you diff don’t trade him now for Thor. I only trade him for Kluber he’s the best pitcher left via trade or free agency. Give them andujar Florial Frazier and top pitching prospect for Kluber and end all these dumb trade talks already.
I don’t think the Yanks do that trade. Kluber is already 33, how many years are you trading for maybe 3-4 good years of Kluber. Andujar alone has 5.
Kluber doesn’t fit the model that the Yankees seem to be operating under nowadays. Syndergaard OTOH is about as ideal a target in that regard. He checks just about every check box (hard thrower, young, controllable, cheap, strikes batters out).
Don’t want Kluber. He’s gonna be 33 and you don’t trade a young controllable Stud for that. I wouldn’t trade Andujar 1 for 1,let alone add more Joyner can go to LA, let them get burned
Kluber is going on 33 and with a ton of innings and some recent big game performance you would be crazy to give up that haul for him! Hard pass. Go after Bauer for less.
Then sign Machado already put him at third keep Torres at second and pick up a short stop to fill in till Didi gets back.
Yankees starters should be Kluber Sevy Paxton Tanka CC
The Indians aren’t stupid, they are only moving Kluber because they know the decline is coming. Didn’t the Yankees destroy him in the playoffs 2 years ago?
do not want. Only Indian pitcher I’d be interested in is Bauer, and then not for Andujar
If not do what you need to do to get Bumgarner
Herd is he best Cash should do to push this trade over the finish line:
Send Andujar, Adams, and two decent prospects (not top 10) to Miami.
Send Kahnle to Mets
Yanks get Syndegaard and not Wheeler!!!!
Mets get JT and Kahnle
Miami gets Andujar, Adams, and 2 other mid level Yankee prospects 20ish range.
For anyone interested, here’s what various projection systems think Andujar’s dollar value will be in 2019. It ranges from $25M to $17M, so it’s a pretty divided field (opinion on Andujar has been divided for years, but, so far, he obviously proved the hawks right).
Please note that that’s his value NEXT YEAR. He has five years of team control left, two of them at minimum wage. So his full value might easily be north of $100M.
You can use the same site to look up the value of the players he’s supposedly getting traded for. You’ll find it’s generally an overpay (Kluber is probably the one exception).
Great post, when you actually research you find out he’s incredibly valuable. His second half was much better than his first half by far. That shows that as pitchers adjusted to him Andujar adjusted right back and improved. especially in the power department.
Some fans are just too lazy to research. Adjustments are made day to day. only an idiot thinks they are year to year.
Wtf are you talking about????
We had no issue trading Sheffield. We been trading prospects left and right. We are about to trade the runner up for ROY and it’s idiotic fans like you who label Yankee fans. Give it a rest and buy a clue.
Met fans beees like:
“If we trade Syndegaard we want the Yanks to send us Andujar and Miami to send us JT. Then we want the Yanks to empty there farm by sending prospects to Miami”!
Met fans care not about fair trades on all sides but rather they destroy the Yanks while doing any deal, !
Listen we all know Noah is a yearly DL candidate and while he has top of rotation stuff his numbers don’t reflect ace”
Manny to the Bronx confirmed
Syndergaard and Vargas for Andujar and Hicks. Mets send Rosario, d’arnaud, Nimmo, both Smiths and Matz to the Marlins for Realmuto, JT Riddle, Straily, Conley and Castro. Send Castro, Frazier and Prado to the Yankees. Yankees also send Bird and Wade to the Marlins. Fill in the blanks with minor leaguers, international draft picks and cash. Easy, peasy. Lol
Your “trade” is dopey. The Yankees ARE NOT trading Hicks, no how, no way. Considering they could’ve had Gerritt Cole in a package had they been willing to trade Andujar, I doubt they’d consider moving him for Snydergard.
The Mets crack me up. Always looking for Nieman Marcus items at target. As far as all the Yankee haters talking out their backside you guys just come off as ignorant. Yankee fans never sad that we think every one of the players is a Hall of Famer. In fact quite the contrary when one of the Yankees has their shortcomings Yankee fans are the first to point it out.
can anybody tell me why they think andujar can’t improve his Fielding the guys a stud at the plate probably going to be even better than Machado. Why do they feel that he’s such a horrible fielder.
Here is a example in your favor as a life long Cleveland Indians fan I have seen many players with great bats have to move position best case in point is Jim Thome he came up as a 3rd baseman that was moved to 1st base.
We all know Thome could hit the cover off the ball from day one but when it came to fielding the ball at 3rd and finishing the play with a Seed to 1st it was just not in the cards more times than not the ball would land 3 to 5 rows behind 1st base in the stands.
I’m in no way trying to say that Andujar will be the next Thome with the bat just trying to say that some players come up cause they can hit but they have no real position just that some teams get lucky and a new position is found for the above average hitters that do not have a clear cut position.
Andujar for Bum, Chris Shaw and will smith
They clearly don’t trust Andujar long term, extremely low walk rate, with a infield fly rate of 15% and a high BABIP, he could regress hard. Machado is more insurance and I think the Yankees will destroy payroll to get him, andujar is a trade it while its hot piece, make the redflags and poor defense someone else’s problem.
Please, please, please trade Andujar and sign Machado. Pleeeeeaaaaase
Red Sox fan
Why part with thor if you can get Grandal for $? Then you have e a great catcher and a solid staff.
Would the Yankees trade Andujar for Michael Wacha of the Cardinals???