On this day in 1920, Indians pitching legend Early Wynn was born in Hartford, Alabama. Wynn spent ten of his 23 Major League seasons with the Tribe, a stint that saw him rack up 164 of his 300 career wins in an Indians uniform and led to Wynn wearing a Cleveland hat on his Hall Of Fame plaque.
The latest from the modern-day team…
- The Indians haven’t dropped their asking price on either Corey Kluber or Trevor Bauer, MLB.com’s Jon Paul Morosi writes, as the Tribe is still looking for “Chris Sale-level return” for either starter. As a refresher of Sale’s move from the White Sox to the Red Sox in December 2016, Chicago landed arguably baseball’s best prospect (Yoan Moncada), another blue-chip pitching prospect (Michael Kopech) and two other solid minor leaguers (outfielder Luis Alexander Basabe and hard-throwing righty Victor Diaz). Sale came with three years of team control, in the form of one guaranteed contract year and two option years that the Red Sox have since exercised at very reasonable prices, given Sale’s ace-level production. Kluber’s contract is also only guaranteed through 2019 with two club option years, though Kluber is also five years older than Sale. Bauer is only slightly older than Sale was at the time of the trade, though Bauer is only controlled via arbitration for two more years. Despite the differences between Sale and Kluber/Bauer, Cleveland’s trade ask isn’t unreasonable, though it’s hefty enough that there hasn’t appeared to be much movement towards a deal (if the Tribe trades either pitcher at all). “There are no signs of recent progress” between the Indians and the Dodgers, who have been often linked to Kluber and Bauer in trade rumblings this winter.
- If Kluber or Bauer are moved, Terry Pluto of the Cleveland Plain Dealer believes a trade could happen later in the offseason, after free agent arms like Dallas Keuchel, Gio Gonzalez, and Derek Holland come off the board. “I don’t believe the Indians will enter Spring Training without having made one more big move,” Pluto writes, arguing that the team still needs significant lineup help, particularly in the outfield.
- The Tribe did check one notable item off its list today by acquiring catcher Kevin Plawecki from the Mets. Cleveland president of baseball operations Chris Antonetti discussed the trade with MLB.com’s Mandy Bell and other reporters, saying that the playing time split between Plawecki and Roberto Perez likely wouldn’t be determined until Spring Training, though Antonetti feels Perez would likely get the majority of at-bats and youngster Eric Haase will still be in the mix. “We felt this was an opportunity to acquire another Major League catcher that could help absorb some of the burden in losing Yan [Gomes],” Antonetti said. He also hinted at more potential deals in the coming weeks, noting “conversations throughout the league have intensified” since the start of January.
Trade Kluber or don’t. I’m tired of hearing who is or isn’t interested and how much of a load Cleveland wants in return.
Serious, so far all that’s said is tribe would want a lot for their ace and most teams would like to acquire the ace.
Then you might not want to frequent a page set up strictly for RUMORS…
+1
True that.
Praise Jesus
Don’t like it get out
So why are you on a rumors site again?
Indians are high
For Bauer, sure, however Kluber should fetch pretty close to what Sale did in terms of value.
Why? Kluber is older and makes more $.
Kluber will only make $11 million more than Sale did over those 3 years of control. Essentially negligible and not really worth mentioning. Kluber has a better track record that makes up for some of that age gap. It’s also only a 3 year contract, negating some of that age risk. Kluber absolutely should fetch pretty damn close to what Sale did.
Track record when you are 33 doesn’t matter. The truth is, he can easily fall because he is entering that age where pitcher usually start failing, that wasn’t the case with Sale. Also, he hasn’t dominated anyone for 2 years in the post season.
And Kluber has 2 Cy Young’s and 2 other top 3 finished in 5 years. Might be older but not that much more expensive in today’s game since both are probably worth about double what they will make this year. With Sale it was paying for a young arm with a strong record. Kluber you are paying for an award winning consistent top 5 pitcher.
bj82;
Since Kluber is such a big risk at that price….. move on.
It appears the Indians have.
lol
“Those that can’t make a coherent point, call those that can names.”
And thanks to the magic of 21st century technology, they can do it under numerous handles.
@bj82 Kluber was a late bloomer so even though he’s been a workhorse the past few years, there’s still comparatively less mileage on his arm. And he doesn’t solely rely on velocity, he relies on movement and command.
Because of that, I personally feel he’ll age better than a lot of other pitchers; he’s also only 33 and not the dinosaur that people make him out to be. I don’t see his age as an issue.
ERA comparable the last 3 seasons. The FIP is almost identical. The SO/9 is comparable. The difference is Kluber is 5 years older than Sale was at the time of the trade. That 5 years makes all the difference.
All I’m saying is, I don’t see a team giving up the #1 prospect in baseball plus other top 100 for Kluber.
Um, Verlander?
Wouldn’t touch kluber. The Indians SO
AL central opponents averaged a 66-96 record and faced them 76 times and Kluber went 15-3 against them. He went only 6-4 against .500 or better teams in the playoffs the last 2 years he has an ERA Approaching 10. Yes that’s TEN.
It’s not definitive I know but for what they are asking for him, I want no part of it. Too much risk at too high a cost
Kluber is 4 years older than Sale was. They will not get close to as much. Probably why Cash has passed.
Sorry FIVE years older.
Sounds like it’s Bellinger or no deal for Kluber.
Not true. Dodgers can build a deal with Alex Verdugo as the main piece heading back to cleveland. Hes mlb ready and if the Dodgers are serious about Harper they could easily offer Alex Verdugo and include joc pederson or andrew toles as a 4th piece to give cleveland two new better options in OF.
Verdugo isn’t a good enough prospect to headline a deal. It’s going to take premium talent like Senzel, Robles, Bellinger to get the Indians to consider it.
Indians would laugh at that offer.
I’ll say this one more time for the people that don’t seem to understand: the Indians aren’t rebuilding. They’ve also managed to trim their payroll, which reduces the need to trade Kluber or Bauer.
If you don’t absolutely overwhelm them with an offer, you don’t get Kluber or Bauer. Your team’s garbage will not get a deal done. It doesn’t start with decent players and fringe prospects; it starts with premium talent.
Will they get a Chris Sale type of offer? Maybe, maybe not. But it’s not unreasonable to ask. Sale’s contract was even more appealing and he was younger, but it’s not a long-term deal. Kluber won’t suddenly fall off a cliff in three years. That’s all you’re paying him for.
Totally agree. The best options for the Indians is trade Kluber for a haul, or keep him. No other option is viable for them.
Exactly. They’re not giving anyone a discount, so they’ll either get a king’s ransom for him or they’ll keep him. There’s no reason to trade him unless they get exactly what they want.
To the extent they’re not rebuilding they’re certainly not building—not aggressively working to improve in the present. (And they might be rebuilding quite soon anyhow.)
They’re doing this so that they don’t have to extensively rebuild in the future. They’re willing to take a little bit of a hit in the present to make what they have a little more sustainable. I’m more of the mindset that a team should be all in or all out, but for a small market team this is what they have to do.
It starts with the Indians needs on the major league roster, not necessarily premium talent. They don’t need prospects so that will not be the main part of any trade. It will take a MLB OF as the centerpiece.
The Indians are not going to get a Sale type return because while Kluber is a comparable talent, he is 5 years older than Sale was at the time of the trade.
So start with those facts and then work from there. Of the teams mentioned in trade talks, that would mean a guy like Renfroe or Margot from the Padres or Bellinger from the Dodgers would be the centerpiece. None of the other teams mentioned, the Reds and Brewers have the young, controllable OF to make a trade. Hoskins is not an OF or he would be a fit.
Do you really think Renfroe or Margot could be centerpieces for a Kluber trade?
If so, why in the world would the Dodgers need to use Bellinger as their centerpiece? He’s significantly more valuable than both of the Padres “centerpieces.”
Renfroe or Margot shouldn’t be anything close to a headliner in a deal for Kluber. The Indians could certainly use either, but saying that one of them would center a deal is ridiculous.
Also, the only argument that people have about Kluber is his age. He’s 33 and you have him for 3 years. I don’t see a problem.
The Indians division mates averaged a 66-96 record so Kluber faced more trash teams than anyone in baseball last year and in the playoffs when he was facing good teams his ERA was near 10 (yes TEN) there are plenty of red flags for any team who might want to acquire him.
Id let someone else take that risk
Dodgers have a lot of mlb ready or near mlb ready pieces pieces like Verdugo Rios Smith White Alvarez.
Dodgers could use Kluber especially with health questions ryu hill Kershaw have and Indians need OF which verdugo fills a serious need. Dodgers also have secondary pieces like joc pederson or andrew toles to include in a deal as the 4th or 5th piece whom are better than the Indians currently have.
I don’t think Kluber gets dealt without a top talent going back to Cle. By top talent, I mean the likes of Senzel, Robles, Bellinger
You look at what the Dodgers can offer.
Verdugo whos top 40 and Lux whos top 90. You include an MLB ready hitter like Edwin Rios to man 1st and joc pederson youve improved the lineup considerably.
Plugging in Verdugo and Pederson in the OF with Bauer and put Rios at 1st and santana at dh you’ve upgraded the lineup at 3 positions and get an immediate replacement in lux to take over for lindor or Ramirez whomever theyre unable to keep long term
The Indians need a ML run producer in 2019. They are not rebuilding. They do not have 2-3 years for a prospect to learn to play at the ML level.
And the Indians have two 1B’s. They’re not going to move them off to accommodate yet another…..let alone one that has not played at the ML level.
Rios makes no sense for the Indians after obtaining Bauers and having Bobby Bradley in AAA. All of which are LHH and are 1B/DH. I like Verdugo and Pederson, but it would take 1 more top prospect and another good one to complete that kind of deal. The Dodgers would also have no OFs left
Dodgers have Bellinger and Taylor slated in the OF already. Assuming they sign Harper. Parting with Verdugo and Pederson wouldnt hurt their OF, depth wise its be tougher but Bellinger Harper Taylor with toles as the 4th OF is still a championship caliber OF.
Suring up the rotation and pen is something the Dodgers should strongly consider.
The problem is, as of right now, Harper isn’t likely to sign with the Dodgers.
Dodgers won’t drain their OF and farm system for Kluber. Makes no sense.
Dodgers aren’t signing Harper.
The dodgers need to sure up their pen and rotation.
Given the Mets recent moves doubt Syndergaard or Degrom get moved.
It’s really trade for Kluber or sign keuchel and lose draft picks. Those are really the only 2 plan A options left.
Idk if Dodgers are on Greinke no trade but thatd be a plan b option.
Giving gio gonzalez a shot would be a plan c but As or brewers could sign him 1st.
Dodgers traded wood and dont have many healthy options at their disposal if ryu hill Kershaw miss time again.
I don’t see the absolute need for another SP. They have depth, that’s why they traded Wood. Kershaw Buehler Ryu Hill Maeda Stripling Urias. Again until they NEED a SP, no need to trade the farm for one.
And ryu Kershaw hill and urias all have injury concerns.
Kershaw hasn’t topped 180 innings or 30 starts in 3 years.
Ryu hasnt pitched above 150 inninhs in 4 years
Hill hasnt pitched above 150 innings or 25 starts in 3 years
Urias has never pitched 150 innings ever in a year during his professional career.
You may not see a NEED. But you’re banking on 4 pitchers who are likely to see DL time this year given their recent history. And its not a matter of if but when they will see DL time. Their pen isnt strong enough to absorb missing that many innings. 4 of the 7 guys you listed missing that much time, not just in 1 year but multiple years, should be an area of concern.
Ok Debbie Downer
Worlds ending tomorrow too so make the best of it
Dodgers have the assets and willing to overpay. San Diego will make moves, but not this one. Astros have been smart with their prospects and I also don’t see them meeting the steep price.
The Dodgers have done well with their farm system. My guess is that they don’t trade their best young players or their best prospects.
Word!
Dodgers need to get a catcher, that’s priority #1
If they are trading any prospects it needs to be for a catcher not another SP. There’s a reason why Kluber, Bauer, and Realmuto haven’t been traded, no one is willing to drain the farm system and more to get them. Dodgers won’t do it.
Dodgers can get a solid catcher without having to give up a huge haul in prospects.
Francisco Cervelli is available im sure and wouldnt cost much.
It’s too bad the Indians traded Gomes to the Nats. A Gomes/Kluber deal to LAD would have made too much sense.
Kluber is a “want”, not a “need.” Save the farm until something comes up and they need to do something.
@ ohiocat5908;
Do you think that perhaps, maybe, possibly, who knows, that the Dodgers and Indians held discussions and couldn’t come to an agreement?
Yes sir. Dodgers aren’t draining the farm for Kluber and the Indians want the farm. Don’t blame them but Dodgers won’t do it.
Of course that is likely what happened. And they moved to who they thought provided the best return for Gomes.
I’d like the brewers to get kluber but not for emptying the farm. I’m guessing the Indians would want Hiara, Ray, Turang, Burnes maybe Peralta.
I’d rather keep those guys (except ray, he could be traded. But that doesn’t even get the phone off the hook.).
If any package without Burnes and Hiura would get the deal done I’m sure the Brewers would do it.
Brewers sent their best prospects for grienke, rebuilding the royals, made the playoffs but didn’t get the return sending him to the angels. Signing keuchel for the brewers makes more sense, more money but not a major loss in prospects.
He’d be a great fit but I don’t think the old Crew would beat the market, he’d have to want to come here.
Braves trade Kyle Wright, Inciarte and Riley for Leonys Martin and Kluber.
Probably the most sensible proposal I’ve seen. But then I think (a) Wright’s the next big thing and (b) Inciarte gets chronically underrated; FWIW, Riley could be a whole bunch of “meh”, IMHO.
But that would be a pretty fair return….Wright’s going to be HUGE……
bob;
The Indians need a run producer. Now!
When Inciarte loses a step, whoever has his rights is stuck with the contract.
Samuel:
Can’t see 3 years at about 7M/ year being that bad of a contract…and at 28, Inciarte’s probably not going to lose his legs in short order. But I’d agree the major need is for a thumper.
The Indians can get to the playoffs in 2019 without Kluber.
But you’re pretty much replacing Kluber with Inciarte once they get there.
The Indians suffered with Michael Bourn for years after he lost a step. Couldn’t play CF well; infielders played back a few steps so balls that used to go through for him became groundouts and DP’s.
It was ugly.
Of course they can, they’re in the worst division in baseball by a long shot.
Agreed, but if this could net us Kluber I would still do it. Even if another smaller piece is thrown in. I like the idea of acquiring Martin especially since he will be in his last arbitration year. He’s pretty similar to Inciarte overall with a little lower hit tool but would be an excellent stop gap if we keep Pache and if he improves enough to be the starter next season.
Bob, How does that trade help in 2019? Wright and Riley are a good start, but not enough for Kluber. I still need to see more than those two and flipping center fielders for Kluber.
Tell me, Bob Tillman, if Cleveland makes this trade, what is your lineup? Is Kipnis an outfielder? I’d like to see more in the corner outfield than Kipnis, Naquin, Luplow and Allen until Zimmer is back,
Kipnis is a medium market nightmare. But I’d bank that in a contract year he revs up his performance some. Either way, they’re going to be stuck either paying him directly or through some other team; it’s a sunken cost.
Remember you’re saving 17M without Kluber…..that would allow you to buy a decent corner OFer or two. .I can see a Denard Span/Adam Jones platoon being productive, if they’re both on pillow deals. And they won’t cost 17M.
Bottom line, IMHO, as Samuel noted, they’re going to win their division anyway. If they’re that concerned about their offense, they can go shopping on July 31, when there’s a higher sense of urgency for non-contending teams. If things don’t work out for Cinnci, I’m sure you’ll be able to get Kemp/Piug…..if things don’t work out for the Rays, they’ll likely hand you Pham for peanuts. Why not look to the future?
I just don’t see Wright or Riley being enough for me to trade Kluber.
Yes we will likely win the division, but we need to try to have enough to go farther in the playoffs. A trade for Kluber should help NOW and in the future. I am not sure that Wright, Riley and the flip of center fielders does enough for me to do it. If we trade Kluber, it needs to be a home run. I would need another good piece at least to get me to do it.
How does Kluber help anyone in the playoffs? The last 2 years his playoff ERA is just under ten.
He won’t be facing teams that average a .400 winning percentage in half of his starts if he’s traded like he does now
People need to look closer at Klubers results. No pitcher in all of baseball has faced an easier schedule the last two years. And it’s not even close.
I think the Indians would probably even want a little more (either another small piece or two but no one major), but that’s a pretty good offer.
Ya it’s funny but I was thinking that as I was typing….a little more to sweeten the pot….a lottery-ticket type, or some slot money…..but again that’s based on my belief that Wright can easily be Kluber-lite…..and that’s a pretty huge bar…..
Be careful…….
Inciarte regressed some in 2018.
If healthy, Leonys Martin is going to give a team much of what Inciarte does.
It’s a nice trade if the Indians were just coming through a rebuild.
Braves aren’t going to do that with liberty media capping the payroll.
I like the jersey Kluber has on.
In the Indians system the primary responsibility of the Catcher is to handle pitchers and call/run the game.
The Indians catchers are all RH batters and crummy hitters. Francona will pinch hit a lot for them in critical situations – often with LH hitters which they have an excess of.
The Red Sox just won a championship going away with 3 Catchers that could’t hit.
If Terry Francona is not the best manager in MLB, then he’s tied for it. Get a run producing OF and a couple more bullpen arms. It’s a pity they don’t hire a quality pitching coach…..it may prove to be their downfall.
No way I am not feeling that trade
Indians ownership and FO are a joke. They pretty much have to frame Kluber or Bauer now if they want to field a major league caliber outfield and get some bullpen help.
The Dolans are not going to spend money, that’s a fact. It’s either make a trade or play the bottom of the barrel broken d••ks that you currently have on the roster. Pathetic.
Snapper;
Do you own a $2.6 million house?
Why not? Are you cheap? Are you pathetic?
Lots of people own a $2.6 million house.
Did your wife leave you for a job with the Indians or something?
Bauer, while still young, does not have anything even close to the track record Sale did when he was traded so that kind of ask is ridiculous.
Kluber is quite a bit older than Sale was and while he has the historic track record, a similar return to what BOS gave for Sale is far too steep.
They need to reset expectations or just hang on to both for the time being.
Any team that gives up a Sale-esque package for either of these guys should fire their GM.
The Indians have no reason to accept anything less, because contending teams don’t just get rid of their best players for fun.
If they don’t get what they want then they’ll be more than happy to keep him and contend with him. If you don’t like the price, no one is forcing you to pay it. How do people not understand this?
Again, Verdugo’s motivational issues have been noted, and Lux has shown he can only hit in the CAL league….yeah!!! Bellinger has to front any deal with the Dodgers.
With the payroll subtractions (rather skillfully navigated, IMHO) , the Tribe doesn’t NEED to pare off Kluber or Bauer. That means top price.
PCL hitting stats are inflated.
They very seldom translate to MLB.
Interesting. The Indians GM said they were looking for MLB talent and Morosi says they want a Sale like return which was all prospects 1-3 years away from the majors. I am going to go out on a limb here and say that Morosi is full of it.
Mr. Morosi is wasting his talents…….
He should be making it up as a political writer/TV personality; or as some sort of writer/contributor for Comedy Central or Late Night Talk Shows.
Perhaps looking at how old Sale and Kluber were/are at the time of the trade doesn’t quite paint the picture. So let’s look at a fuller picture:
The RS got Sale for his age 28, 29 and 30 seasons. Kluber’s next team will get him for his age 33, 34 and 35 seasons.
Statistically, pitchers’ ERA peaks at age 29.2. That’s the sweet spot. Then, it starts climbing up very, very slowly for about two years. At age 31, however, it starts climbing rapidly.
And it’s not just about ERA. In the 1988-2013 period, there were 1,600 20+ start years by pitchers aged 27. There were 650 such years by pitchers aged 32, and 350 by pitchers aged 35. In other words, someone who acquires a 32 year old pitcher isn’t just facing the likelihood that their performance will drop, they are also taking on a massive risk that they won’t pitch at all.
So, on top of the very likely prospect that Kluber will drop off to a 4 WAR pitcher for the next two years, and then a 3 WAR pitcher for 2021, there’s also a significant risk that he won’t even be on the team by 2021.
There is not significant risk that Kluber will off the team in 2021. That’s just a load of BS.
You did a lot of research to come up with such a bad comment
You might want to look at this article on trade value from fangraphs.
https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/2018-trade-value-1-to-10/
It shows that Kluber, despite his age, is the 12 most valuable trade asset in all of baseball – ahead of Bellinger – ahead of Acuna, Soto and G. Torres.
Kluber is worth every bit as much as the Indians say.
Phillies.. Sanchez,Nick Williams ,Suarez and a reliever not named Seranthony…..
Sanchez is a decent headliner, but is far away. The secondary pieces would have to be better than those mentioned.
“We felt this was an opportunity to acquire another Major League catcher that could help absorb some of the burden in losing Yan [Gomes],” Antonetti said.
Losing Yan? Losing? Uh, did he forget that he TRADED Gomes?
Indians should take a page out of the Astros’ playbook and move either Carrasco or Bieber to the bullpen, and keep Kluber in the rotation. Astros did that with McHugh last year and he was lights-out, and now that their starters left as F/A they can put McHugh back in the rotation.
Carrasco pitched much of ’14 out of the pen and was great (2.30 ERA in 43 relief innings), and it’s always wise to limit the workload of a young guy like Bieber. Minimize injury risk, keep him as an emergency SP.
In 2018, betweem AA, AAA, and MLB, Shane Bieber pitched 194. 1/3 innings. The Indians do not have to baby Bieber. Bieber and Carrasco will be a starting pitcher whether Kluber is traded or remains with the Indians. Their peak value to Cleveland is as starting pitchers. It is easier to find relievers than it is quality starters.
All the more reason for concern. Zack Wheeler pitched 185 innings in his first full season in ’14 and missed 2 entire years. Look up Mark Fidrych for another good example
Wheeler jumped up from 100 innings in 2013 t0 185 in 2014. Bieber threw 173 1/3 innings in 2017 and then 194 1/3 in 2018. It is a more logical increase of innings. Bieber.s best use of his abilities is as a starter. Not all pitchers are going to need surgery.
Bieber is also very mechanically sound leading to lower injury risk.
Good point. I haven’t watched him much so I wasn’t aware. Better to move Carrasco to the pen
Carrasco shouldn’t move to the bullpen either. If anyone should, it’s Salazar.
Why should they move any of their starters to the bullpen?. If they do not trade pitching their rotation is set. If they do trade a pitcher, then Carrasco and Bieber will definitely be needed in the rotation. I do not get why you want to take a guy like Carrasco that can throw 200 innings at a high level and limit him to 70 innings. That makes no sense to me.
I know at one point he was untouchable, but what about julio urias headlining a deal for Kluber?
Too much uncertainty with his injury. He would be a second piece. The Dodgers are better off holding him in order to regain some value.
As far as trading kluber or Bauer. It’s been ssooooo long and drawn out it’s not even exciting anymore. Those trades have lost its luster
this is a weird way of phrasing “indians aren’t interested in moving kluber or bauer”
the next story is yankees are seeking a chris sale-level return for sonny gray
Still think the Reds could put a package together with Iglesias and India as the headliners. Then could add an outfielder not named Winker (i.e. Schebler or Kemp + the 7 million from the Dodgers) and another 10-15 range prospect.
Gives them top of the line bullpen help that is controllable, a major league outfielder, plus a top 5 pick from last year who could be up in 1-2 years to help at 3b.and another prospect.
The Indians aren’t taking trash like kemp for a top 5 pitcher.
Kemp – one year of control and high priced – not of interest for the Indians.
Schebler – average to below average outfielder. Does not move the needle.
India -MLB.com projects a 2021 debut. Cleveland looking for MLB ready prospects.
Iglesias is a good piece. India is ok if their is more pieces that can help now.
If I were the Dodgers or the Yankees I’d be swinging a trade for Kluber for sure. Both teams are a piece or two away from a championship. Having him head up the rotation would push either team over the top IMO. Having said that I hope the Yankees don’t cause I hate em.
If I were the Yankees or Dodgers the very LAST pitcher id trade for is Kluber. His record the last two seasons in the playoffs is attrocious. Giving up OVER one run per inning. 70 % of his wins are against teams well under .500 he’s not as good as he used to be.
Yeah, he’s terrible. This should be your last comment, ever.
Now the Mets need to trade Frazier and Lagares,I would also like to trade Cano and his 5 years even if it was with the Yankees (I would even take Ells and Gray) along with maybe Bird and Loiasiga for the Mets it lessens the amount of years committed for when the Mets need the $$ for deGrom and Syn.