In one of the biggest Winter Meeting blockbusters in recent history, the Red Sox and White Sox have announced a trade that will send Chris Sale from Chicago to Boston in exchange for prospects Yoan Moncada, Michael Kopech, Luis Alexander Basabe and Victor Diaz.
In acquiring Sale, the Red Sox will add one of the game’s most dominant pitchers to add to a star-studded rotation that’ll also feature David Price and Rick Porcello, with other options including Eduardo Rodriguez, Steven Wright, Drew Pomeranz and Clay Buchholz. As such, president of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski should have no shortage of rotation depth from which to deal if he desires to utilize that theoretical surplus to address other areas of need on the roster.
[Related: Updated Chicago White Sox Depth Chart and Boston Red Sox Depth Chart]
Sale will head from Chicago to Boston on the heels of a season in which he posted a 3.34 ERA with 9.3 K/9, 1.8 BB/9 and a 41.2 percent ground-ball rate in 226 2/3 innings. Since cementing himself as a top-of-the-rotation arm, Sale has posted a collective 3.04 ERA with 10.0 K/9 against 2.0 BB/9 in 1015 2/3 innings. He’s set to earn just $12MM next season, and the Red Sox will hold club options valued at $12.5MM and $13.5MM for the 2018 and 2019 seasons, respectively.
While there was concern earlier in his career that centered around Sale’s unorthodox delivery, his arm has held up better than nearly any pitcher in the sport. Since 2012, Sale’s innings total ranks 12th among 227 qualified starting pitchers. His 10.0 K/9 is eighth in that same span, and he ranks fourth in the Majors in fWAR and third in RA9-WAR in that time as well. His average fastball dipped a bit in 2016 but still checked in at a healthy 92.8 mph.
Sale drew heavy interest from a number of teams ranging from the Astros to the Braves to the Nationals, but as of late last night it was the Nats that reportedly had a real chance at pushing a deal across the line. The Red Sox seemingly upped their level of aggression overnight, however, and will emerge from the Sale sweepstakes without having been forced to surrender any member of their expected Opening Day roster. Washington made a last-ditch effort to salvage a deal, but fell shy, Bob Nightengale of USA Today tweets. Given the intense interest, it’s no surprise that the Red Sox ultimately paid a heavy price to add the power lefty.
With three years of club control at a combined total of $38MM and that track record of dominance, Sale was one of the most valuable trade commodities in Major League Baseball, and he commanded an according price. Moncada, 21, looked overmatched in a brief September cameo with the Red Sox in 2016, but he rates as one of the top overall prospects in all of MLB and was listed as the game’s No. 1 prospect on the midseason Top 100 list from Baseball America. He currently rates as the No. 1 prospect in baseball, according to MLB.com.
BA dropped Moncada down to No. 2 on Boston’s list of top 10 prospects this offseason (subscription required and highly recommended) but noted that he possesses the size and strength of a linebacker with elite speed on the basepaths and a left-handed approach that elicits comparisons to Robinson Cano. Add at least average defense at second base to that blend of power and speed, and even if Moncada isn’t a dominant hitter from the right-handed side of the dish, there’s still legitimate star upside. MLB.com’s report on him likens him to “Cano with more speed” and notes that few middle infield prospects come with this type of offensive upside. He should immediately become the White Sox’ second baseman of the future, joining 2017 sophomore Tim Anderson to form an envy-inducing double-play tandem for years to come.
Moncada’s 2016 season was nothing short of brilliant, as he batted .294/.407/.511 with 15 home runs and 45 stolen bases in just 106 games between Class-A Advanced and Double-A before briefly jumping to the Majors late in the year. To this point in his minor league career, he’s stolen 94 bases in 109 tries — a success rate of 86.2 percent.
Signed out of Cuba to a record-shattering $31.5MM signing bonus (which came with a 100 percent luxury tax for the Red Sox), Moncada is a versatile switch-hitter that has spent the bulk of his minor league career at second base but has also been said to be capable of playing shortstop, third base and the outfield. That $31.5MM signing bonus was spread out over three years, but the Red Sox are reportedly picking up the tab on the remainder of the money he’s owed and all of the tax obligations as well.
Kopech, 20, ranks just two spots behind Moncada on that list of top Red Sox prospects over at BA. The former No. 33 overall pick (2014) generated plenty of buzz this year when he reportedly hit 105 mph in a minor league game, though Yahoo’s Jeff Passan tweets that some scouts believe that mark to be an embellishment. Nonetheless, Kopech regularly works in the triple digits with his fastball and reached Class-A Advanced as a 20-year-old in 2016, where he pitched to a dominant 2.25 ERA with 14.2 K/9, 5.0 BB/9 and a 42 percent ground-ball rate.
BA’s scouting report notes that one evaluator called him the best minor league arm he saw all season and likened his combination of elite velocity and a low-90s slider to a younger version of Mets ace Noah Syndergaard. There are some character questions — Kopech was suspended for use of a banned stimulant and later broke his hand in a fight with a teammate — but the talent is clear. MLB.com rates Kopech 67th in baseball at the moment and calls him a potential front-of-the-rotation starter, especially after working to simplify his mechanics in 2016. He’s a bit of a longer-term asset, as it’ll probably be 2018 before Kopech is ready to debut, but the upside the Sox are receiving here is significant.
Sticking on BA’s list of top 10 Red Sox prospects, Basabe checks in at No. 8. The 20-year-old’s twin brother (Luis Alejandro Basabe) was traded from Boston to Arizona in exchange for Brad Ziegler this past summer. Luis Alexander has enough range in center field to have a floor as a fourth outfielder but also has average or better tools across the board, per BA. Basabe, who hit .264/.328/.452 with 12 homers and 25 steals between Class-A and a brief five-game stint in Class-A Advanced, could stand to improve his contact skills (119 strikeouts in 474 plate appearances), but gives the White Sox a potential everyday center fielder down the line if he can find a way to put bat to ball with more regularity.
The 22-year-old Diaz, not to be confused with the former Mets outfielder of the same name, spent the 2016 season pitching for Boston’s Class-A affiliate and worked to a 3.88 ERA with 9.4 K/9 and 3.7 BB/9 and a 58 percent ground-ball rate in 60 1/3 innings of relief work. He comes with the least fanfare of the four prospects in this deal but still has an upper 90s heater that has reached triple digits. MLB.com rated Diaz 28th on their midseason list of top Red Sox prospects, noting that in addition to a power fastball has a pair of inconsistent but promising secondary pitches in his slider and splitter. Diaz hasn’t made a start as a pro, so he seems like a pure relief prospect, but if he’s able to harness his control a bit and develop the secondary pitches, it sounds like there’s a potential late-inning relief arm there.
Stepping back and looking at the whole scenario from a bigger-picture perspective, the move certainly signals a move toward a rebuild for which many ChiSox fans have long clamored. Chicago GM Rick Hahn is reportedly open to trading anyone with fewer than four years of service time, which means first baseman Jose Abreu, closer David Robertson, third baseman Todd Frazier and outfielder/DH Melky Cabrera all figure to see their names bandied about in the days, weeks and months to come.
The greater question is whether Hahn & Co. will listen to offers on Sale’s now-former co-ace, Jose Quintana, who is controlled for four more years at a nearly identical total price. The Pale Hose also have one of the game’s most appealing outfield trade candidates in Adam Eaton, who is locked up through at least 2019 and has two club options on his highly affordable deal. If the White Sox want to go for a complete tear-down, the pieces are in place for Hahn to execute an accelerated rebuild given the level of MLB-ready (or near-MLB-ready) talent he can acquire in exchange for the most appealing assets on his top-heavy 25-man roster.
Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports first reported the agreement and that Moncada and Kopech were in the deal (on Twitter). USA Today’s Bob Nightengale reported that Basabe and Diaz were in the trade (on Twitter). Bruce Levine of 670thescore.com (Twitter links) and Brian MacPherson of the Providence Journal (on Twitter) added context on the financial component of Moncada’s bonus.
Photos courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.
Oh, snap.
Every time I watch sale pitch I feel like his elbow is going to snap.
Don’t worry, White Sox fans and haters alike have been waiting on that since he broke in. He’s avoided any serious injuries throughout his career as well.
I love all the Keyboard GMs on here yapping their mouth away about either how the Whitesox didn’t get enough in the trade or how the Red Sox are screwed by depletting the farm system and acquiring sale. I love it how these same people are the ones talking all that crap yesterday how the Nationals & Braves would be giving up too much by including Giolito & Robles or Foltynewicz/Inciarte + Swanson lol. To me it sounds like you guys are salty because your team couldn’t put together the pieces it took to acquire Sale. There were soo many that though their team was going to get a discount just because it was their team lmfao. Now for all the ppl panicking over the state of the Red Sox farm you do realize how stacked this rotation and lineup is now right? Not only are the Red Sox in a great position to contend for the next couple of year. They are also in a great position to trade away alot of these players if their plans don’t pan out. Do you guys seriously think other teams wouldn’t be lining up to attempt to acquire guys like Pomeranz, Wright, Porcello, Kimbrel, thornburg, Rodriguez, Owens, Shaw, Bogaerts, Benitendi, JbJ, and Betts? None of these guys have enormous contracts and could easily be dealt to replenish the farm. And if you really think Chris Sale is a bum of a pitcher you really need to revaluate as to why you’re even on this website because it’s pretty clear that you don’t know jack s**t about the current game of baseball.
A bird in the hand is worth two in the. bush. If sale pitches in the World Series this year it’s worth whoever they gave up
This is my favorite cliche. It applies to everything.
It’s more than that. It’s does each team get what they want. For the Red Sox, it’s 2-3 years of dominance. With Sale-Price-Porcello atop the rotation and a very formidable lineup, it looks like they’re going to get just that.
For the White Sox, it’s a strong foundation on a rebuild. And Moncada is one hell of a building block.
It really is a very good deal for both Sox.
Red Sox need to trade Bucholtz and Moreland and sign EE and win the East under the cap
Amen
call me crazy, but how about we wait two years to judge this trade a boom or bust for either team instead of just two hours?
You’re not crazy. But the dude up top with the 30 line rant should consider some sort of help.
They don’t have Shaw anymore. They gave him up to acquire Thornburg so you can’t really list both
$13 million a year for Kimbrel, who has had worse numbers each successive season for the last 4 years and only pitched 53 innings is not a value pick up.
Season ERA WHIP
2016 3.57 1.113
2015 2.58 1.045
2014 1.61 0.908
2013 1.21 0.881
2012 1.01 0.654
Following that trend line you are looking at a 4+ ERA in 2017.
wow, those other prospects must be devers and dubon.
Dubon is gone.
Dubon went to Milwaukee in the Thornburg deal.
Didn’t they send Dubon to the brewers?
Yeah, just like he said, Dubon is gone.
Not at all..A steal 4 Boston.
You’re obviously an idiot. I didn’t know trading future superstars was a steal. Sale is obviously not too good in the clubhouse. Not saying they didn’t get an ace but do not call it a steal. The white sox got a haul. They weren’t selling low
Quit assuming hes not good in a clubhouse based on one event that actually earned him respect from teammates.
Poor speculation.
Id still agree that the Red Sox gave up too much for him.
Who’s going to impact the Team next five years Chris sale of course. They gave up two prospects nothing says they’re going to be a proven superstars,
And you’re an obviously an idiot for assuming Sale is “obviously” not a good clubhouse guy based off one event…
How do you know these guys are going to be superstars?
Agree completely
Good chance you’re an idiot as well. Basing this on language only.
Can’t go wrong with having a guy who touches 100 on a team so he’s always going to have some sorta value with that arm.
a steal for BOS? I get that they’re getting a perennial CY Young winner, but for CWS to get the #1 Offensive prospect since Trout and a SP who is a power guy with frontline potential along with another power reliever in Diaz (who will be a nice addition in the pen alongside Zack Burdi in a year or 2), and Basabe who can play center or RF b/c of his plus speed and plus arm. A CF who can hit 12-18 HRs along with 20-30 SBs a year and another power RP both set to arrive to the bigs in a couple years is not too bad of a second half of a blockbuster trade. Moncada is far and away the prized prospect in all of baseball. I’ve read scouts describe him as a Mike Trout type prospect but plays in the infield. I’ll take this package all day given the CWS last 8 year run of mediocrity. Love having new hope in the farm system and adding these 4 to the young core they’ve been finally been putting together recently.
Moncada isn’t a better offensive prospect than Kris Bryant was. Perhaps a better all-around prospect (although Bryant is one of my most highly regarded prospects ever, so I’d put him easily ahead), but don’t overrate Moncada.
You’re vastly overrating Basabe and Diaz as they stand right now, both are ungodly raw high-ceiling/low floor guys. Basabe has literally only been playing baseball for four years and has been all over the map in terms of offensive output. All of his power output came last year and he really never showed much before that. His Speed and Defense look legit but he could just as easily turn into a 4th outfielder as he could a consistent piece. Same goes for Diaz, he has one pitch, a high 90’s fastball, and he has pretty bad control lapses.
Kopech and Moncada are what they are. The Sox played this perfectly by shelling out Moncada’s money instead of parting with Raudes/Groom/Travis/Chavis/Ockimey/Dalbec/Longhi. The White Sox got elite talent and the Red Sox were crafty enough to not completely gut their farm system. Right now you can’t knock either for this trade.
In no way whatsoever did Boston “steal’ anything. they paid dearly.
No they did not. If they had given up Mookie or Bogaerts that would have been paying dearly. The Sox have an excellent team as it stands. The prospects were icing on the cake. Now that icing is Sale instead.
I wasn’t saying it was a bad trade for them.. and I suppose they didn’t have to give up anyone on their roster for this year. Only future players. It was something that I guess the Red Sox could handle but it would sting almost any other club but them much more.
Adyo, couldn’t have said it better myself
I agree with you BoSox4Life. The talk of Moncada being the next Mike Trout is all that, it’s just talk. Anyone that was watching the games last year could see that Moncada was absolutely exposed. He knew a curveball was coming and he still couldn’t hit it. He struck out 64 times in 45 games in AA Portland, a very significant stat when his BA was .277. Players who strikeout that often better be putting the ball over the fence 30 times a year, and even then I am not sure I would want that on my roster. Striking out doesn’t do a “job”. It is extremely underrated to have the ability to move a runner into scoring position with less than two outs. Baseball is game of failure. Even the best players will fail to get a hit 7 out of 10 times, so maximizing these failures is all the more essential, but I do think Moncada has superstar potential. I just don’t think its all cut and dry like everyone believes it is. In fact, I could 100% see him becoming a bust. A good player, but a bust. Plus it saves us some $$$.
I’ve said it before, I think Benintendi was the better prospect between the two. He may not have the glamour of Moncada, but he’s a better all around player.
Retaining the actual roster was the real steal in this deal (y’all love that rhyming). The Red Sox gave up none of the current roster that won the AL East last year and acquired perhaps a top 5 pitcher in all of baseball. We still have Groome, we still have Devers, and we still have Sam Travis (who was claimed to be the next Paul Goldschmidt – link to nesn.com – for those who love comparisons)
In regards to Sale’s locker room problems: he cut up shirts. He cut up shirts because he believed that ownership was favoring marketing over winning baseball games. I’ll take a guy that wants to win that bad any given day of the week.
Let us not forget Kopech in this deal. The guy who matched Aroldis Chapman for the hardest fastball ever thrown at 105mph. The who struck out 86 batters in 56 innings with a 2.08 ERA between Lowell and Salem. The guy that was suspended once already for PEDs (and then throws 105mph when he’s off the drugs? Sure). And a guy who missed the first few months of the season last year after breaking his hand punching his roommate….. Bye. He’s got a BUNCH of talent, but psycho problems that burn locker rooms. I’ll take him on my fantasy team, but not my actual team.
I don’t know much about Basabe or Dias so I will refrain from commenting, but getting three years of Chris Sale I think was worth every penny. Surprised we got to keep Devers and Groome.
Let us not forget this gives us a plethora of starters that we can use to rejuvenate our prospect pipeline. David Price, Chris Sale, Eduardo Rodriguez, Rick Porcello, Steve Wright, Clay Buchholz, Drew Pomeranz… that’s seven players to 5 spots, plus Kelly in the ‘pen, and Owens and Johnson in AAA on an emergency basis. Look at this roster, look how much better we are getting, look how long we have all these players, take in the fact that the players we gave up have done NOTHING in the MLB, take in the success our young players have had in the MLB… Its a lot to give up, but it was steal all at the same time. Let us all rejoice.
I wish the Sox signed Holiday. He would’ve been the perfect mentor for the young guys. Hopefully this convinces Papi to come out for one more year… probably not though. We just need to answer that one question mark at DH definitively and I think this team has the potential to become a dynasty.
I agree with many points Poundsy24 made but making out Moncada to be a bust isn’t one of them. This kid is the real deal. Hes a man amongst boys on the baseball diamond. You need to remember that a guy like Benitendi went through College playing and learning the game of baseball the way it is played in the majors. He didn’t have to acclimate himself to a new country, new culture, new language like Moncada did. Not to mention the kid is only 21 and has already made the jump to the Major leagues at a younger age than Benitendi. You need to remember Moncada just arrived to this country in 2015 as a 19 year old, you should really cut him some slack. And the numbers speak in the minors speak for themselves, yea he might be a little suseptible to breaking balls but.if thats the only flaw you see in him do you not think the coaching staff in Chicago will be all over that proble and will do everything in their power to help minimize that? Give this kid sometime and watch him blossom into one the best players in the Mlb. Afterall there is no rush now that he is in Chicago.
there are more issues with Sale than cutting up jerseys. Do we forget how he wanted to boycott a spring training game because the Sox told Drake LaRouche to get lost? Do we forget he was waiting outside the Royals Clubhouse last year looking to fight them? Sale is a competitor, but he is a nut case.
Do we forget that Sale WASN’T the only one who had an issue with the Sox telling Drake LaRoche to stay out of the clubhouse? Multiple other players had a problem with that.
Divisional title dynasty maybe, but not an AL pennant or World Series title dynasty. The Red Sox are not that strong. They will have stiff competition from within the AL and they are not nearly as strong as the Cubs.
OK so on paper they have the best rotation in the al possibly baseball, the best offense in the al possibly baseball, again defense is up there as well no slouches there either and a revamped bullpen. I realize that the game has to be played on the field but still for the next three years they have to be favorites at least in the al if not baseball. Not as strong as the Cubs? Similar offense, better outfield defense with the red sox, in the rotation they have the al cy young award penciled in for third all under contract for the next 3 years while arrieta is a free agent next year and the red sox have an established closer with revamped options around him again on paper I’d give it to the red sox.
“not nearly as strong as the Cubs.”
That is HIGHLY debatable.
The Cubs are better at 1st base with Rizzo, but if Hanley hits like he did last year, the Sox aren’t THAT far behind. The Cubs DEFINITELY have 3rd base locked down with Bryant compared to whoever Boston throws out there. I’d also give the Cubs the advantage at Catcher, assuming Contreras pans out.
The middle infielders are basically a wash between Bogaerts/Pedroia and Russell/Zobrist or Baez.
The Red Sox are SIGNIFICANTLY better in RF and CF with Betts and JBJ compared to Heyward and whatever the Cubs plan on doing in CF.
LF is up in the air between Benintendi and Schwarber. Personally, I’d much rather have Benintendi since he has a great glove to go with his bat. I’d still consider both as question marks as of right now though.
The rotations are similar. You could make an argument for the top 3 in either one, which is all that REALLY matters in the playoffs. I think the bullpens are also similar if the Cubs don’t grab one of the elite closers. If they do, then they might have a slight advantage at best.
Overall, the Cubs may still be stronger, but it’s not by as much as you seem to think.
Sox most likely will not even make it to the World Series in 2017 and if they do they lose in six games to the fuzzy wuzzies from the North Side of Chicago
Cubs most likely will not even make it back to the World Series in 2017, and if they do, they lose in 4 games to the Red Sox.
Wow, I guess it really is easy to say whatever you want with no backing.
Yeah, Adam Eaton called Drake a leader on a team. What does that tell you about those defending him being in the clubhouse.
Maybe, but he’s the only one who told the President (Kenny Williams),to stay the f out of the clubhouse. Great pitcher but nutjob. With that said, I think both teams will be happy with this trade.
The Cubs rotation all vastly outperformed their peripherals last year save for Lackey and Arrietta was prone to some severe control lapses. Regression is all but a given for Hendricks and Lester The only places you can say without an argument the Cubs, right now, are better are first and third.
I do not think he will be a bust. I just do not think he is going to be a “sure thing”. I do believe he is going to be a very good baseball player, which I believe I said, but even so, he still has maturing to do.
Also, breaking balls isn’t my only concern about Moncada. I’m also a skeptic of his defensive capabilities. Fortunately for him, time is on his side as he’s a young buck, but there definitely needs to be some improvement. Defense is a very underrated portion of the game. It can get you out of a two out jam, or make the inning last forever.
Once again theo2016 is a idiot. Go climb back into the hole you just recently climbed out of!
Moncada, devers and kopech! Even dombrowski isn’t that stupid
Oh snap
What a great pick up for that team. I’m really happy he did not come to the NL!
There goes the farm
holy f@$! that’s a better deal than the nationals could offer
Especially since they were very adamant that they were not giving up robles, giolito, or turner. Nats are delusional for beleiving that.
Damn I thought yoan was untouchable
Consensus #1 overall prospects never get traded. Never. The last time a top TWO Baseball America prospect was traded without playing multiple full seasons with the team that owned him at the time of the ranking was Paul Konerko – in 1998.
And there’s a reason these guys don’t get traded. Ugh.
They are actually at 2 and 4 on the BA Red Sox prospect list.
Guys the real kicker here is the Red Sox pick up 31 million left on the Moncada deal….ugly
There is no $31 million on the Moncada deal. The Red Sox gave him a $31.5million signing bonus to be paid over 3 years (the maximum allowed time for bonuses over $1mil). Moncada is essentially 2 years into that deal and the signing bonus is obviously owed by the signing team, it is in no way, shape or form a salary.
The second $31.5million that the Red Sox had to pay was to the league as a 100% tax for going over the league limit.
Moncada is being paid no more than any other minor leaguer.
link to m.mlb.com
Not really since Sale cost about 1/3 the going rate of an ace on the free agent market and he’s better than every ML SP except the one in LA….
It is Dombrowski though. Interesting fact though. Let’s see how Moncada turns out. I love how Kopech has looked. I’d take him over Giolito (with Moncada) every day of the week.
Don’t talk to Redsoxu571 in 2042. He’s already made plans to fly out to watch Yoan Moncada’s induction into Cooperstown that year.
Wil Myers was a top 2 guy when he was traded from the Royals to the Rays.
Not the Nationals?!
No your delusional gm thought he could pull it off without including his three best guys which none are better than moncada alone.
Calm down. Making an offer and sticking to it doesnt make you delusional.
Dang
You should be happy that Sale did not wind up in the NL East with the Nationals. Imagine the Braves having to battle the Nationals in a couple of years with the killer starting pitching staff the Nats would have had with Sale in it.
Eric Ortiz future article – 2017 Red Sox will challenge the 1927 Yankees for the greatest team ever
(For those who don’t understand – link to nesn.com)
But holy crap. What a trade.
LOL
Lol that is hilarious! Thanks for posting.
“especially with players like Ryan Kalish, Lars Anderson and Josh Reddick on the farm”
That’s exactly why you trade prospects for elite ML players…Casey Kelly, Allen Webster, Henry Owens, Michael Bowden, Justin Masterson, Will Middlebrooks, Craig Hansen, Daniel Bard….
If Moncada pans out, great, there is no IF about Chris Sale.
Knew it. There was nowhere else that was going to match up. The Nationals were a smokescreen.
Yankee fans aren’t going to like this…
They’re not the only team in the AL East lol
Not in the eyes of the BoSox or the yankees. To them they are the only 2 teams that matter. Rivalries like between those 2 are a beautiful thing to watch.
And yet it’s the Orioles who have the AL’s best record over the last 5 years.
And the Jays who have the best record of the last 2 years and made the ALCS both years. Just a great division.
You never know. Yankees weren’t realistically going to compete around the new nucleus until 2018. By that time Sale has 2 years left. He has been an amazing pitcher but it’s impossible to predict continued dominance and health. It might be a blessing in disguise, especially if his arm falls off (which his delivery does portend a bit).
As a Yanks fan I actually do. Let Dombrowski deplete the farm for a chance at winning the next 3 years. The Yanks won’t contend during that time.
As a yankee fan also, I love this trade. I was more worried about 5-15 years of moncada than I am now about a few years of Sale. Sale is awesome, but these days, pitching is EXTREMELY fragile. Unlikely Sale will be as good in 3 years.
Sale is 27, younger than Price by 4 years and the same age as Porcello. Lets not pretend he is anywhere near over the hill.
Yeah, all AL EAST fans should be happy with this trade….
Agreed. Sale is young and he’s a heck of a pitcher. I’m just saying all pitchers are so fragile now. Moncada could be a great player for 10+ years, whereas Sale is much less likely to last as long.
Moncada COULD be a great player…your words.
Chris Sale IS a great player….fact.
No one in the AL outside of Boston is happy about this, be real. You’re only making a fool of yourself if you expect people to believe that.
White sox should fire their GM. they got robbed.
You may be alone in that opinion.
I think that Giolito will have a way better career than Moncada, but I don’t know if he was offered.
He had to have been if Turner wasn’t.
Nope i saw reports saying that robles, giolito, and turner were untouchable. Nats gm is delusional as hell.
The reports said that Giolito and Robles were in the offer and they were working out other pieces.
They got one top prospect. The other player is 99th and the two others probably aren’t top 1o0
Kopech will easily be top 50 going into next year, more likely top 30…
I bet there’s another top guy involved
He is
Agreed. Getting robbed would be if we traded Sale for Jackie Bradley Jr (offensively, he fell off the map big time after his ridiculous start to his season) and a couple others. Moncada is going to be a beast, just have to figure out where he will settle in at on defense).
Dude seriously? #1 prospect in baseball plus a top 50 (at least) pitcher, and more? That’s like the heaviest return in prospects for any trade in the last ten years.
Besides last years trade for Shelby Miller..
No, actually the Braves got the #4 prospect and a starting CF coming off a 5+ WAR season and another top 100 pitching prospect for Shelby Miller last season.
Still, this is a great haul for the White Sox..
#67 on some boards. I thought the White Sox would have gotten more.
Robles is the #1 rn
according to?
They got #1 in Moncada and #67 in Kopech. Interesting they went for that over two top 10’s and more.
We actually can’t be sure that the Nats even offered both Robles and Giolito. Were said to be extremely hesitant to part with Robles. Either way, I thought that in a deal with the Red Sox, it would’ve taken Benintendi or Moncada as the centerpiece plus Jackey Bradley Jr, along with other secondary prospects. I was nearly positive that JBJ would be involved in the deal.
I’m still pissed about losing Espinosa for Pomeranz. I’m not at all upset about losing Moncada for CHRIS-FREAKING-SALE!!!!!
The #1 overall prospect and the #67 who has hit like 105 mph, plus two other prospects which I’m sure will be pretty good, for two years of a fragile Chris Sale? No sir, the Red Sox got robbed. lol
Chris Sale has 3 years of control.
and fragile is an idiotic thing to call Sale after his track record.
Fragile?
Someone is upset!
No they most certainly did not.
Daaaaaaaaaaamn
Never thought id be so happy for a player to be traded to the Red Soxs. Thank god its not the Nationals. Haha.
Wow out of nowhere
Sale changes his Sox. Details at 11.
Thanks, I’ll be here all week, try the veal.
He’ll cut them up.
Lol <3
Slow clap
The nationals probably lost out because once Boston included Moncada the Nats needed to include Turner to keep up.
Holy crap
Didn’t take long for that dipshit Dombrowsky to destroy the system. Better win a WS in 2017 because you just traded away a HOF infielder for a redneck lefty.
HOF… HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA
Ummm…. that why they hold the draft every year, plus that’s why they have international scouts. So they can do their job and bring in MORE prospects. Geez man! Let the GM do the GM-ing.
Absolutely, there’s a chance the prospects the sox gave up will never have a significant MLB career but they know what sale is and that’s one of the best in the game. As a Yankees fan this one hurts
You are correct. These prospects may not turn into anything special. On the other hand, Sale could blow out his elbow in spring training. It is a risk for both teams, but worth it for each of them.
Na we will be fine buddy
One draft a year where really your first rounder is your big upside one but he has traded like 12 top prospects in 2 years. How do you keep up with gaining top prospects? You don’t. He’s pissing away the farm to win now and frankly I still don’t think they will even with sale. Maybe the east but not far into the playoffs especially when price can’t even come close to winning any damn playoff game. Keep dreaming Boston.
Price, verlander, Scherzer, swept by Giants under DD. See a theme?
Trout, Fulmer, Betts ,bradley, swihart was a highly ranked prospect kopech all picked after 20. It’s harder to get done but definitely possible to get great players/prospects without being a bottom dweller.
Price was not a member of the Tigers in 2012. And was Scherzer as good back then as he is now?
That trio were swept by the Orioles in 2014
Hall of fame infielder… The guy has had 20 PA at the MLB level
Bu-bu-bu-but have you seen his biceps!?!?!? HOF biceps at the very least right? Lol smh
Not to mention Kopech is 20. You never know. If you can sure up your team now, and win now, then you do it within reason. Obviously BOS traded a lot but they didn’t blow up the farm system. There’s plenty of young talent at the MLB level, so they won’t need a huge influx of talent from the minors for a while, just a few guys here and there.
HOF…Ok dummy what r u on Crack..
Tiger fans warned the Red Sox fans that DD never met a prospect that could not be traded. He is still following that concept with his love of high end SP. Looks like Verlander, Price, and Mad Max Part 2.
He hasn’t played a full season in the MLB yet he is a HOF Infielder….
The point is that in just 16 months, Dombrowski has taken the Red Sox from a team that was primed to contend for the next decade+, to a team that has to win at least one WS in the next 2-4 years to make his nonsense “worth it” and then go through a total rebuild. He’s a moron.
100% agree with rusty. Perfectly said
Rusty, you realize the Sox got a 27 year old ACE without giving up any major league talent? They still have Mookie, Bogaerts, Benintendi, JBJ, Devers, Swihart, and others. Let me reiterate that Sale is 27. The thought that the Sox are now no longer a long-term contender is straight-up crazy.
HOF? Unless Moncada seriously improves, the dude is Pedro Cerrano against big league breaking pitches. I’m actually more concerned about losing Kopech to be honest. I’m just hoping we also didn’t throw in Benintendi or Bradley if we gave up that much farm talent.
Oh yah? You figured that out in 20 plate appearances in the big leagues at 21 years old? You must have a great eye for talent.
Moncada says Fu*k You Joboo…and Robert Poole.
Moncada is the most overrated prospect in baseball! His inability to hit a breaking ball was exposed during his call up late last year. His speed didn’t play at the MLB level due to horrible base running instincts. Kopech is tough to lose but Moncada is going to be a BUST!
I didn’t know that the overall consensus of GMs and old school and anylitical scouts alike are idiots. this Kevin princess must know more about baseball than anyone else who looks for/assesses/judges talent for a living.
Maybe you’re right…I mean Moncada’s overall stat line of .294/.407/.511 (including exact totals of 15 HRs, 45 SB, 31 2B, 6 3B, 94 R, and 64 RBI in only 106 games and 405 AB) does look overrated now that I look at it more closely. I’ll bet that not one pitcher in A or AA ball even threw him anything other than a fastball or change up all year, just so his numbers would jump off the page.
And the baseball america minor league player of the year was probably fixed I”m guessing too, dont you think Kevin?
Better hope those turn-back-the-clock unis are made of cotton or Sale ain’t havin’ it. Hide the scissors!
Moncada is 21. Bust ? Good call.
Sox most likely will not even make it to the World Series in 2017 and if they do they lose in six games to the fuzzy wuzzies from the North Side of Chicago
The whole team can’t be kids. Already hit 100% on Betts, Bogearts, Bradley, and pretty damn close to 100% on Benintendi.
Still have some nice pieces too. So they drop from #2 overall system to #15…who cares? Look at our ML roster, these guys will be around for years.
so let me get this correct….he’s played 8 games in the majors and he’s already in the HOF?
Sale, Price and Porcello – That’s a rotation you can feel confident about pushing through each round of the playoffs.
But can you feel confident with Price in the playoffs?
My thoughts exactly
Good question – I’m sure we will find out in 10 months or so. I imagine being a #2 starter will help alleviate some of that pressure.
Until you think about how price and porcelain have pretty mediocre playoff careers and sale hasn’t ever pitched in the playoffs. But this should help the Sox run away with the division imo
Except price and porcello haven’t pitched well in the playoffs their whole career and sale hasn’t been so I don’t think your comment is very valid
Alright – good luck with guys like Jeff Suppan instead.
I lol’ed
Met fans said the same thing and what happened to them..
Sale price and porcello that’s a rotation you can be confident about in the playoffs
Said no one ever
Yeah those guys that finish in the Top 3 for the Cy Young award are garbage
I know man – I hate Cy Young Awards too
Up until this year, Kershaw couldn’t pitch in the playoffs. But nobody was talking about lack of confidence in him through the playoffs.
Because he’s Clayton freakin Kershaw. He gets the benefit of the doubt.
FYI, no one is closer to Clayton Kershaw than Chris Sale….
closer than Bumgarner or Lester or Price?
good keep him off Nats
yup seems underwhelming. with only two top 100 prospects.
But Moncada is head and shoulders above of everyone else on that top 100 list
Moncada has not done anything on big league level. He is still a prospect. You are getting an ace who is getting paid like a #3-4 starter. There is a reason that they did not just trade Moncada for Sale.
A guy who has BEEN an ace. He showed some worrying signs last season of potential health or decline issues, and an elbow problem could show up at literally any time.
are you serious? 2014 was the only year he missed significant amount of time (a little more than a month). Don’t make up stuff. he has been top 5 cy young votes all four of last season and top 6th in 2012. I wish Nationals could afford to trade for him.
His FIP drastically went up from 2.73 in 2015 to 3.46 in 2016. His K/9 went down from 11.8 to 9.3 and his delvery is the same one that Mark Prior and Johan Santana have.
You clearly have never watched Sale, Santana, and Prior pitch. Their styles are very different. Sale has a lower arm slot but not low enough to be a side arm pitcher. Prior was 3/4 but closer to over the top and so was Santana. Also thousands of pitchers have looked like their arm will fall off and had good careers.(i.e. Randy Johnson)
His delivery looks nothing like that of Mark Prior or Johan Santana. As far as his FIP increasing, did you watch baseball in 2016? Offense was up everywhere. A lot.
lol what are you going of
underwelming? wtf were you expecting? haha you got the top prospect in baseball. do you want the reincarnation of Babe Ruth?
That would suck for Red Sox fans, giving away Babe Ruth again.
They got a perennial Cy Young candidate that has 3 years of control and he is grossly underpaid for those years of control. Price will be making more than twice what Sale will. Also Sale is only 27. I know Moncada and Kopech are solid prospects but beyond that they got 2 young unknowns that don’t have huge upsides. The White Sox didn’t get as much as they could have put of the deal.
Clearly, Boston was not going to give up Benintendi. Washington was not going to give up Turner. Atalanta was not going to give up Swanson. Houston was not going to give up Bregman.
So what better deal could they have gotten?
Albies/Newcomb? Giolito/Robles? Reed/Martes?
Moncada/Kopech are easily better than any of those duos.
And Basabe doesn’t have a huge upside? That’s actually Basabe’s profile – that he’s a potential five tool player. He’s still very young, but scouts say he has the tools for a ceiling of a .280, 20 HR, 30+ SB outfielder with excellent defense and plate discipline.
Moncada and Kopech is a ton to give up. I hope the other prospects aren’t anything significant.
White Sox fan here. I will miss Sale. He was a gamer who wanted to win. The LaRoche kid thing and cutting of jerseys aside, he was a model citizen. You guys got a terrific player. My White Sox were not going anywhere. A rebuild is needed and so I hope the players we got in return will contribute. Sale now surrounded by really good team, finally will pitch in playoffs. Good luck Red Sox fans.
Early Christmas present!
Oh god what are the whitesox doing
Why do the Red Sox want to win now instead of winning last year when Ortiz was still there? If you were going to make a lot of huge deals, the past 3 years would have been the time to do it.
First, Dombrowski wasn’t there for the last 3 years. Second, I would think acquiring Price, Kimbral, Porcello, Hanley, Panda, etc… would indicate that they were trying to win while Ortiz was still there. (sure, they didn’t all work out, but they made the deals). Third, the White Sox were still trying to contend last year, and Sale wasn’t available. To make a trade, the other side has to be willing. Any other questions?
Wow man your amazing
They tried for the same guy and were rebuffed last year
What I will agree with here is very few people outside of the Red Sox Management team thought the starting pitching going into last year was going to be sufficient. They got an amazing rebound year from Porcello (who is bound to regress) but they only picked up one starter in Price (who struggled) and left the last year of Ortiz’ run in the hands of majorly inconsistent pitchers like Buchholz or Wright and a guy they hoped would improve (Rodriguez). It was a precarious position and while the bullpen really got their stuff together once Tazawa was shelved and Uehara came off the DL, the starters killed this team. Combine that with a hitting slump that cost them 8 of their last 9 games and it was the end of our chances.
Rebuilding
The white sox are making a smart, well timed decision in the midst of a rebuild…
Elvis has just left the building.
Sale is junk!
You’re stupid. He’s amazing
But I’m sure you wouldn’t have minded him being traded to the Yankees. Probably only junk because he’s going to the Red Sox right?
Exactly
No way.. Not a guy I want on the team.
Total garbage!
Please show us some reasoning about why he is junk/garbage outside of just claiming it.
awesome deal for the Soxs
Holy Batman!
The White Sox shouldn’t stop there, might as well sell off Quintana, Abreu, Frazier ++ now that they’re not going for it in 2017.
They probably will, but Sale needed to be the first domino.
Moncada and kopech are a solid return and am curious who the other two names are
Here come all the prospect huggers
Hahaha
Can’t say I saw it coming at all, but the White Sox made a spectacular deal. Forget the Red Sox getting Sale; Moncada and whoever else they get more than makes up the 3 pointless years of Sale. Great deal for both sides, and it looks like Chicago may be building for a 2019 Showdown. Go Padres
Finally a thoughtful comment. (I’m exaggerating, there are several others.) Great trade for both sides. They gave up a lot, especially in light of their recent acquisitions, but they are getting a lot in Sale as well.
Honestly don’t care who got rid of I’m just happy we got him
HA! Suck on that, Washington.
As a Nats fan, I am actually happy about this. If we want to empty our farm, please do it for position players and/or proven relievers.
I’d gladly add Tony Watson to the Cutch deal now that Rizzo has some extra prospects laying around.
I like the idea of going after JD Martinez and pushing Harper to CF. Turner in CF some days when an OF needs a day off (Werth) and re-evaluate CF next off season when Werth comes off the books.
I don’t like Harper playing CF. He is not capable of it. We should not push it.
I don’t either, but the CF market looks bleak.
Harper does not add any value as a CF. I would rather keep Turner in CF over Harper and look for a middle infielder.
Now what you do with freaking 7 starters!?!?!? (Not even mentioning the two other prospects)
Every team will need 7 starters, at least. Going through the season without a handful going down, just doesn’t happen.
Rotation depth is vital.
Sale didn’t make sense for the Nats to me. It’s not their starting pitching that’s holding them back, and they have a talented, controllable unit for years to come.
I think this is better for the Nationals.
Agreed
Shoot
Good news if you are a Pirates fan like me. Sale didn’t go to the Nationals so Cutch could still be in play there. Good get for Boston, but great return for Chicago.
I wonder what would happen if the Pirates called Rizzo and offered Cutch AND Gerrit Cole, maybe even Watson, too?
Could they get Joe Ross and the 5-6 pieces the Nationals were offering for Sale?
WOW…I wudnt give up Moncada for the world
So what are the Red Sox going to do about 3B long term? They traded Travis Shaw in the Thornburg deal and just sent Moncada to the Whitesox now.
Did not see this one coming. Guess the Nationals didn’t feel like giving up Robles and Giolito .
Devers is a 3B. And theyve got Pablo till hes ready.
maybe Todd frazier is in this deal. or luis valbuena, turner.
Lol Luis Valbuena is garbage
I always figured that Moncada would take 3B, and push Devers off 3B and to 1B. Now it looks like Devers will be the focus at 3B.
For 3rd base, the organization is betting big on Pablo and his lucrative contract. If you loo at recent pictures of him in the off season, he has slimmed down significantly. It’s a big bet, but the season is only a few months away!
boston.cbslocal.com/2016/12/06/roche-a-skinny-pablo-sandoval-farrells-option-other-red-sox-thoughts-from-winter-meetings/
Let the Allen Craig era begin!
Wonder what Sale thinks of the Redsox throw-back uniform? Reportedly he took his scissors with him when clearing out his locker.
They were part of the trade. He told Kenny Williams not to trade him unless the scissors went with.
And boom goes the dynamite.
Prospects are what they are. In most cases, overvalued by fans. May work, may not.
Well, I didn’t see this coming. I have to admit, I knew it was a shot in the dark for the Braves to get him, but I was hoping they would.
You should be celebrating that the Braves did not make the stupid and foolish mistake of trading a big chunk of their farm system for a pitcher they did not need. Braves will not be ready to seriously compete for pennant until 2018 or most likely 2019 and no way would they have paid the money needed to sign Sale to long term contract extension
Want to know who the other 2 prospects are, but personally, I’d much rather have Moncada/Kopech than Giolito/Robles.
Wow, the White Sox got robbed. If those other two prospects aren’t Devers and Groome then they need to fire their GM.
I just don’t understand the logic behind this reasoning. Sale was useless in Chicago because the team is going nowhere. Kopech and Moncada for three years of Sale on a losing team is a huge win. This is an example of a great trade for both parties involved.
Moncada and Kopech are good but the other guys gotta be near the top also. Seems just a bit light for now.
What about Steven Wright as a starter?
I can’t believe Bradley wasn’t in it.
neither can i. makes me a bit worried Devers and Travis might be the other prospects.
This makes the Sox the best team in the AL, the bulleye is on their back, if they don’t get to the series it will be a failure. Sale and Thronburg are great additions to this team, but the baseball season is a marathon. Teams that looks great on paper now, don’t always make it in the end.
Prepare for disappointment.
Who is happier, Sale or RedSox Fans? What a trade!!
Cub fans we don’t have to face him in nl playoffs. Red Sox put up their prospects and were in win now mode. Fun times.
Nope, now you just have to see the Giants. They actually have closer this time around though.
Who are the other prospects?
Talk about a shocker, The Red Sox traded Moncada and Shaw in one day. I guess Pablo is gana have to play third unless they sign Turner or Plouffe
Hopefully it’s Devers and Travis. Quintana, Frazier, and maybe even Abreu will be next. This is a fire sale for sure!!
When ur a yanks fan and now gotta go find bleach.
The Yankees will be fine man
I hate this trade
As a Red Sox fan
“Since 2012, Sale’s innings total ranks 12th among 227 qualified starting pitchers.”
Why do the guys on an innings total list have to be qualified? Is there a worry that someone who only pitched 200 innings over that multi-year period will skew things by bumping Sale and his thousand-something innings down the list?
Haha! Nats used big time…
BOY HE DID IT
This makes a lot more sense than Turner/Bregman since Moncada was less likely to contribute as much to his MLB team this year.
Pretty good get for the WS, should be interesting to see what else they do this offseason.
WOW! If those one of those “other” prospects aren’t in the form of Devers this is WAY less than what the Sox wanted and I give kudos to the rSox then.
Wow, Chicago radio has it Moncada Kopech and two LOW level minor leaguers. Hopefully this puts the Rays asking price for Archer in check. This is insanely less than what the wSox were demanding.
Good for both teams…. Diaz has some crazy velocity, might be a great bullpen pickup for chisox
Great pickup to Solidify that Boston Rotation and got a setup man a few hours earlier and with Carson Smith coming back healthy, watch out MLB, the RED SOX are coming for ya!!!!
I’d say Boston just went to the top of Al ,prospects are just that,Sale is a proven #1.
And is a proven injury concern and proven to have bad mechanics. If he stays healthy, sure, they’re a hell of a team. I just have my doubts on how much longer his elbow will last before it blowing up and him needing TJ surgery. He’s already battled elbow soreness off and on throughout his career and a couple years ago had a strained elbow flexor in his pitching elbow. The guy has his red flags.
As noted above, Sale is 12th in innings pitched. He is an Unproven injury concern, and his mechanics seem to have kept him healthy just fine. Your doubts are unfounded. The flags look that way because you seem to be seeing red. Most Red Sox fans see them as Victory flags.
Wow, that was pretty lame. If DL stints and missed starts due to elbow soreness is “unfounded” then I guess my red flags are “unfounded.” Pretty sure his velocity went down in 2016 as well. We shall see.
Anyone watching MLB Network with Mad Dog and Peter Gammons? Gammons just said he’s not completely sold on Moncada now. Lmao.
He also said joe kelly is a top relief pitcher.
I was watching MLB Network and I just have to say….
Plaque psoriasis seems like a really fun disease.
Let the trashing of the former Red Sox begin…..
I don’t know why, I have near-complete faith in Moncada. He has superstar tools, and I’m quite sure he’ll at least be a solid everyday player. Good floor + literally top ceiling = I want one!
thank you baseball gods! so glad the Braves didn’t sell the farm to get Sale. I love Sale’s game but not that much!
Agreed, I love sale too but ive been waiting for albies to hit the scene. Kid isnt worth sale imo. Wish wed gotten sale, but not worth parting with Atlantas future. Sox fans , congrats on both sides. Crazy day.
Base and Diaz other two in deal.
Basabe and Diaz are the other 2 from what I’m hearing.
Both soild prospects, Basabe better than solid. This is the biggest prospect value in one trade in years and years. Great job White Sox.
White sox got robbed.. moncada is good(#1-2 in all of baseball). Michael K is ranked 99th in 2016 and the other 2 are outside of the top 100. Shelby Miller got more in trade and he is no where near Chris Sale
Sale is a much better pitcher no doubt but Dave Stewart was also a dumb GM
You’re insane.
Yoan Moncada is easily the best prospect traded in decades. Since 2010, do you know what players have ranked among the top three overall prospects? Corey Seager, Kris Bryant, Bryce Harper, Mike Trout, Byron Buxton, Jurickson Profar, Jason Heyward, Giancarlo Stanton, Stephen Strasburg, Xander Bogaerts, Matt Moore, Dylan Bundy, Jesus Montero, and Addison Russell. Half of them are MVP caliber players right now. Three others are All-Star level players. And three more could find themselves in one of those two categories in the future. Only one of the fourteen has completely flopped – Jesus Montero.
Kopech is easily a Top 50 prospect heading into 2017.
And just because they rank outside the top 100, doesn’t mean they aren’t good. The majority of current major leaguers never ranked inside the top 100. Basabe has a very high ceiling and Diaz could be a future closer or high-leverage reliever.
You can’t compare this trade, or any trade, to the Miller trade. That was one of the worst trades in recent memory.
@ They most certainly didn’t get robbed. Its not often that the top prospect in baseball is ever traded. What did you expect them to get? Moncada, Benintendi and JBJ for a player that is only controllable for 3 years. I think it was a fair trade on both sides. This is a Jays fan talking by the way so I do have a little bit of skin in the game against the Bo Sox but im trying to look at this objectively and this is my judgement.
Basabe and V. Diaz others in deal.
Great! Now since the Pirates are hell bent on trading Cutch, the Nats have the prospects to trade.
I don’t think this means they are just going to give those prospects to the Pirates. Rizzo said he didn’t want to give up Giolito or Robles for him. Maybe Cole, Fedde, or Voth and lower guys. I don’t think this means he is next. Probably a big name closer.
Personally, I don’t want the Pirates to trade Cutch, and if they do I would rather him go to an AL team. Either way, If it’s going to happen II want to see a deal made that makes up for the Liriano mess.
Maybe they included Alan Craig and that sealed it
Haha we are not that lucky
WOW that seems like a horrible trade for White Sox.
Are you kidding? Look up the kids the White Sox got. They stripped a very good system almost bare for three years of a good pitcher. Fantastic deal for them.
A good pitcher? Please go check Sale’s stats and then come back to me. he is easily the best pitcher on Red Sox now.
Agreed
Fantastic for white Sox
I wouldn’t say they stripped the system bare. And most of the Red Sox best players are young and just hitting arb/pre-arb. By the time those guys hit free agency/arbitration, the team should be able to restock the farm.
Who’s going to play 3rd for Boston now? Panda?
Probably
At this point I think we can call it definite.
I hear Devers is not in the deal. Could be wrong. Also that the Soxs in play 4 Abreu as well..
I live in AZ and watched the AZ Fall League here…
Moncada was not that impressive (in limited action)
Kopech however was very impressive in the three starts I saw. Excellent control and good pitch mix. Plus he’s a monster on the mound. I wasn’t aware of his size. This is the guy that will haunt us in this trade. Though Hamley Ramirez was a lot to give up once upon a time and that was worth the 2007 World Series it won us…
That must have been a REALLY small sample size. Didn’t you watch any of his minor league work, or the Futures game? He was nothing but impressive there.
Interesting that you think you saw excellent control from Kopech. Are you sure it wasn’t poor plate discipline young players just swinging at bad pitches? Kopech’s only real flaw at this point is his command; he was as unhittable as it got in the minors last season and throws nitro, but he doesn’t always know where it’s going.
Valid point on the small sample size ( as I noted in my post. I was just trying to post my actual observations seeing these players play vs the majority of the posters on here who are Alt-Tabbing between baseball prospectus and fangraphs to draw there own conclusions. Moncada is more than likely going to be a great player (I personally feel Hanley Ramirez is a good comp)
As for the (only) 3 games I saw Kopech pitch I didn’t notice command issues, his velocity was a bit lower (95-98 mph) I believe by design to rein in his command issues.
While AZ Fall Leaguers are NOT major leaguers, they are (generally speaking) upper echelon talents and not free-swinging.
I think the White Sox did good for themselves. I just feel the value of a possible top rotation starter with a floor of a reliever that can hit triple digits will play long-term better than a Cano/Hanley middle infielder.
That’s what the Nationals get for being cheap
Southside all being equal Red Sox picked up 31 mill of Macada not so sure the Nats were right
Interesting. If that was really the package, I’m not sure how that beats the Nats package in my mind.
Where’s that pickme guy from Green Monster baseball with this high class story??? What will we do without him???
CWS must be certain Moncada and Kopech are future all stars. Tigers held to see what White Sox were doing. With the launch of the rebuild, DET will stand pat and have a legit shot at winning the AL Central
This doesn’t affect the Tigers plans at all. Chicago, as they were, were not going to contend. Detroit was planning on contending before this trade, and they are still planning on contending.
Detroit is not even in the same ballpark as Cleveland. Honestly, if Cleveland signs Encarnacion I would pick them over Boston in the AL next year.
That’s 4 left handed starters for the Sox. The monster is going to see some action this year.
Best hitters in that division are right handed. Donaldson, Tulo, Longoria, Sanchez, Holliday, Machado…
Haha yup
Doesn’t anyone want to go to the Nats….lol!
Both teams fans are equally griping and praising the deal. Which means that it is probably a fairly equal deal. White Sox were bad with him and needed to trade him and reset their team. They have multiple players they can trade for very good prospects. Quintana may bring the White Sox a better haul than Sale due to how controllable he is. Melky may get the White Sox a mid-level prospect and Eaton can bring in an impressive haul as well. Robertson may bring in a couple of nice pieces as well. If the White Sox do this right, they could move these pieces and take their farm team to possibly the best in the majors in a very short period of time.
I want to know the other prospects I’m guessing not Devers he is now there third baseman of the future. Really want to know the other prospects.
Basabe and Diaz. They just updated the story.
Where’s that pickme123 guy who claims to be a “reporter”? It looks like he and his “Green Monster News” team wasn’t able to be the first to “report” this time.
Don’t taunt the baseball gods, please
Seems like a pretty awesome deal for both sides.
This is great news for the rest of baseball….. or at least teams interested in Archer. Archer’s price has HAD to fallen after this. Moncada, Kopech, Basabe, and Diaz is a fraction of what the wSox wanted for Sale. Hoping/assuming the Rays price of “5-6” prospects for Archer has gone down to a more realistic 3-4. Sure, Archer has 5 years of control to Sale’s 3, but Archer is hardly the pitcher Sale is. Had a pretty mediocre 2016 if I’m not mistaken as well.
Again, if I were Hoyer I’d offer up Soler, Baez, Jimenez, Cease, and Candelario for Archer and Colome. That’s better or equivalent prospect talent the rSox just gave up for Sale AND I’d toss in Soler and Baez. MORE than fair after recent events.
I want someone of whatever you’re smoking with that trade offer for Archer/Colome. I like Colome but that’s a lot. Cubs love Baez and Eloy Jimenez. The others are expendable.
Archer is a much lesser pitcher than Sale. Look at it as Soler, Baez, and Candelario for Archer and Jimenez and Cease for Colome. The rSox just got Sale for NO proven, young major league talent. Baez and Soler (if healthy) are studs. A move to the AL and the DH will likely keep Soler healthy. When healthy he is a .270 hitter with a .340 OBP and 25 HR power, easy. Baez is Baez and coming off an MVP performance in the NLCS. Candelario is a ML ready 3B prospect, a top ranked 3B prospect in MLB. He would allow the Rays to trade Longoria for even MORE top prospects. Cease is the Cubs best pitching prospect and I think he is like the 98th or so ranked prospect in all of baseball. Not bad for a single A pitcher. He has major promise. And then there’s Jimenez who has garnered a TON of buzz this last year and for good reason. The kid can rake. That’s potentially 4 guys in their everyday lineup by sometime in the 2018 season, and a SP sometime in 2019 all for Archer and Colome. That’s potentially 20% of their active roster come 2019 for only a SP and closer now. If that “isn’t enough” nothing will be. Baez is a future All Star 2Bman or SS.
The Cubs aren’t getting Archer and Colome for Soler, Cease, and Candelario though. I don’t see the Cubs offering Baez (unless Forsythe is thrown in, which further increases the price) as they’d probably rather give up more prospects than Baez.
Its exactly what the White Sox wanted for Sale, or they wouldn’t have made the deal. It’s a fraction of what the FANS wanted, and fans overvalue.
No it’s not. The reports have said they wanted the likes of Benintendi or trea turner. During the season they were wanting Moncada AND Benintendi. Then it turned into Benintendi or Moncada AND Devers. This is significantly less than what they’ve been demanding.
Supposedly the White Sox wanted Benintendi and Betts/JBJ during the season. But mid season trades are always higher priced because teams are usually more desperate, and willing, to meet the price.
Hope it pans out for the white sox but at the moment, I don’t like this trade. Seems like they could’ve done better. Must’ve wanted him gone pretty bad.
Like this trade from the White Sox got some good players back
The two prospects were low level never heard of them before players.
Basabe and Diaz. Basabe is promising. Diaz is a pretty low level prospect. DEFINITELY less than what the wSox were demanding though, which as a Cubs fan makes me hopeful that Archer’s trade price just took a major hit.
So explain to me why the White Sox made the trade if what they got was “DEFINITELY less than what the wSox were demanding”?
I’m guessing it was definitely less than what the white sox FANS were demanding lol
They’re even talking about it on Chicago sports radio that it is less than what the wSox wanted. By no means is it a garbage deal, but it is significantly less than the package they were demanding from the Nats. They are saying they settled because they are anxious to start taking advantage of a seemingly desperate market due to a lackluster FA pool by shopping Quintana, Frazier, Abreu, Cabrera, and Robertson now.
If that is the case, as a Cubs fan I am actually impressed to see the wSox make such a bold and decisive direction…….. it hasn’t happened yet but if that is what they’re intending on doing, kudos wSox…. kudos.
Basbe a very good outfielder.., Sox system so good he has gone unnoticed
If I were Neil Huntingdon, I call Mike Rizzo and offer up McCutchen AND Gerrit Cole AND Tony Watson.
Offer to solve all of the Nats issue in one trade and get back Joe Ross and the 5-6 top prospects they offered for Sale.
Cutch being dealt has already been decided and Watson walks at the end of the year, so they’d mainly be giving up 3 years of Gerrit Cole, who is a Boras client and should be able to find a home with the Nats.
Can you please ask NH to name the Nationals players he wants in return?
Ross, Giolito, Robles, Lopez, Fedde and whoever their next best position player prospect is sounds fine.
Gerrit Cole alone could/should get the Pirates a similar package the wSox just got for Sale….. and you want to toss in McCutchen and Watson on top of that? Delusional. If they wanted all that it would likely have to involve pretty much the Nats 1-10 ranked prospects…. ALL of them.
Please take Turner too.
Cole is very good, but he’s not Sale.
And I was asking for 6 top prospects plus a young MLB starter. That’s a decent haul.
Cole fetch Sale package….??? LOL. You’re delusional. A year away from going 116 IP with a 3.88 ERA. Yes, 2 years removed from a 19-win season, but he’s got Scott Boras as an agent and is a reported diva the level that would make Mariah Carey blush, and he doesn’t have the control that Chris Archer, Julio Teheran or Jose Quintana have (even though the first have also had “down seasons”).
I couldn’t see PIT get a package equal to Archer, especially considering he’s going into arbitration and about to get expensive.
How do you compare Gerrit Cole to Chris Sale lol ………..
Yeah….Cole is definitely not near Sale. Sale is worth more.
Poor Nats fans.
ROFL!!!!!!!!!
I am a Nats fan and I am happy about this.
So by this trade logic the Cubs should be able to trade Ian Happ and Carl Edwards jr for one of the best pitchers in the game on a bad team. Makes sense….
Sure, if Happ gets more powerful, faster, and better in the field. Then maybe you could make something work.
White Sox got fleeced. Should’ve gotten more from the BoSox or taken the Nats for Giolito and Robles
Sucks they got the number one prospect in all of baseball
Uh.. 31 mil of Moncada also picked up by BoSox… gee really ? Who got fleeced? Driftcat?
The White Sox still? Boston was going to have to cover that regardless since it is bonus money. It wasn’t like they threw it in there as a sweetener. I personally think a package from the Nats would have been better too.
The ceiling of the players White is getting is pretty impressive. Could have an all start 2nd basemen and closer. Now ship of Quintana for Gio and Robles
Honestly i think Mocadas signgning bonus + penalty = $63 million had alot to do with his top prospect status. His ceiling is high but there are others with ceilings just as high. As I also think Swanson’s prospect status owes alot to being #1 drafted last year…. Other factors are at play with prospect rankings, alot more than just talent goes into consideration.
Moncada’s slash line in 106 games last year .294/.407/.511. That’s a .918 OPS to go along with 15 homers and 45 stolen bases. If he can play even an average second base, and all reports indicate that he’s better than average, he has a ridiculous ceiling.
Better deal than the one with the Nationals. The White Sox need positional talent that can hit more than pitching and this trade gives them the #1 prospect in all of baseball in Yoan Moncada who has already had a taste of the big leagues. He most likely starts the season in AAA but should be a fixture in the White Sox lineup sometime this season. The White Sox could have a formidable double play combination for many years with Tim Anderson and Moncada, although who plays SS and 2B is still an open question.
I called this last night. I had a feeling that Dave Dombrowski would swoop in at the last minute and make his best effort to acquire Sale. As a Cub fan also, I’m relieved that Chris Sale is not going to the Nationals.
7 SP under contract 4 of them LH. Say goodbye to Pomeranz. Not crazy about giving up Moncada and Kopech for injury prone pitcher even as good as Sale is. I understand it. Pitching wins championships. Moncada is a special kind of talent though. They better win a WS or 2 in the next 3 years or this one will sting in a couple of years.
“Injury prone”? He has pitched the 12th most innings since 2012 and has never missed significant time. Injury prone is not the right word for that.
I don’t know where these people fish out these false tags from.
Golf it ur dumb,,,injury prone better look at his career before u say things.
Don’t leave any throwback uniforms lying around Boston
Think about this….
If Price and Sale pitch like they usually do, Porcello pitches Declines slightly next year, and Steven Wright puts up All Star numbers again this team will be scary. Then you also have to add that they will be easily top 5 offensive in baseball. I say they win at the bare minimum 95 games and at maximum 100+.
P.S.
(I know it is way to early to make predictions because you have to factor things such as injuries but all I” saying is they are on path to 95-100 wins.)
You have to imagine the offense dips without Ortiz.
Think about this….
If Porcello pitches like he normally does (before 2016), he’s a fringe pitcher on a mid-market team and the only reason Clay Buchholz has a roster spot.
If Wright pitches like he normally does, he’s a long reliever.
P.S.
(It’s way too early to make predictions, but I’ll say Porcello goes 15-13 with a 3.80 ERA and Steven Wright is pitching out of the bullpen by August). Can’t wait to see Price in the playoffs to see those terribly awkward interviews.
Porcello really is an interesting case. 100% of his improvement as a pitcher was his dealing with left-handed batters. They previously had an OPS of .780 off of him, and he somehow limited them to just .600 in 2016 – 70 points better than he dealt with right-handed batters.
Oddly enough, David Price handles lefties at about .600 for his career, but most of his struggles last year were the result of lefties and their .750 OPS.
Was that an attempt at being conservative by stating that Steven Wright is going to put up All-Star numbers again? And you’re chalking up 95-100 wins?
No. Just no. Not at all.
That’s more than everything breaking right…..that’s everything breaking right, PLUS the Orioles and Jays using replacement players PLUS the Rays and Yankees realizing that all their players Travel Visas have expired and having to forfeit games.
How many years consecutively have the Nationals been predicted to win 100? What about the Dodgers with the $250M payroll and Kershaw/Greinke fronting the rotation?
So you stating that a team that just lost their once-in-a-generation offensive centerpiece to retirement is going to be a 100-game winner based on adding Sale and because Steven Wright is an All-Star again with just feigning a slight regression to the mean by Porcello?
Wanna rethink that? Or at least say something that might let people take you seriously again?
It’s actually a work visa, but I see where you’re going with this.
A bit light for the White Sox.
FIRE SALE!!!!
Ugh, not enough? Moncada, Kopech, Basabe(seriously?), and Diaz(seriously?) for Sale? That’s it? Win for Sox, the Red ones.
Two teams that can’t spell socks right…
I still think its a horrible deal for the white sox. You have one of the best starters with a cheap contract for 3 years and all you get is the #1-2 ranked prospect and the #67 prospect and then 2 players outside of the top 100. The Braves got a lot more for Miller last year.
the Dbacksoverpaid for someone that underperformed, I would think that it would bring more caution to FOs than a motivation to pay higher
They did, but that Miller trade was never considered fair value. It was ludicrously one-sided at the time and even more so in hindsight. The idiocy of D’backs management shouldn’t be the standard against which future trades are measured.
Top 2 prospects almost literally NEVER are traded before they play at least a few seasons. The last one was Konerko in 1998. So no, you’re underrating how valuable a top 2 prospect is, and how much MORE valuable they usually are than, say, the #5 overall prospect.
Also, Kopech isn’t the #67 overall prospect. That’s what he was at midseason; he has likely shot up since then. He likely is top 40, and could be top 30.
Since 2010, fourteen other players besides Moncada have been ranked inside the Top Three prospects by Baseball America (excluding Oscar Taveras).
Who are those fourteen? Bryce Harper, Mike Trout, Xander Bogaerts, Corey Seager, Kris Bryant, Jason Heyward, Giancarlo Stanton, Stephen Strasburg, Byron Buxton, Addison Russell, Matt Moore, Dylan Bundy, Jurickson Profar, and Jesus Montero.
Seven of those guys are among the best players in baseball. Three are well above-average major leaguers. The jury is still out on three more. The only one that has completely flopped is Jesus Montero.
So it’s insane to say “all you get”.
And additionally, those are the midseason rankings. Kopech is easily a Top 50 guy heading into 2017. Basabe is a young but very high ceiling player, and Diaz is a potential high-leverage reliever.
i thought the White Sox would get more but thats a decent hall.
Moncada can be an all star at 3rd or 2nd… maybe SS
Koepech brings it at 98-100, only 20 years old, looks like he could be a 1 or 2.
Basane has all star potential in CF or RF. great arm and speed, power is coming too.
Last relief pitcher brings it too at 98-100
Kopech’s delivery will put him in the bullpen. CBS Sports posted an interesting article about the prospects involved today.
Head Hunter!
Not entirely certain how I feel about this trade but:
1) On Dombrowski gutting the farm: Yes, a few big names left but there’s still Benintendi, Devers and Groome. So the farm isn’t as well stocked but we also have a very young outfield and a young shortstop.
2) But here’s the final key point, you can’t get something for nothing. I seriously doubt JBJ would have ever been a centerpiece in this deal and while I will not say who’s better between Moncada and Benintendi but Benintendi showed a lot of promise and heart last year in the majors. Basically in a Sofie’s Choice situation, I’d prefer to keep Benintendi
3) Sale makes me nervous. I’m not sure why but not every player adjusts to different cities and I’m not sure if Sale will adjust to Boston.
4) That said, everything shaky about the rotation and the bullpen has been given a good solution on paper in a few short hours. And it happened by sacrificing only a small part of the young core.
Sale will be loved in Boston ……. A guy that goes out there and pitches his ass off ……. What he got pissed at Kenny Williams …… Kenny Williams Sucks
I am baffled as to why I keep seeing rSox fans saying Moncada “disappointed” in his debut this season. He had 19 ABs in 8 games people, and he’s a whopping 21 years old. But more importantly…. NINETEEN AT BATS!!! How can you call anyone a “disappointment” based on about 5 games worth of ABs….. not even a full week’s worth of games. While I think the Red Sox have inflated his potential quite a bit to the point he is the #1 prospect in MLB, He still has very much the potential to becoming one of the best if not the best 2Bman in the game. He has the power of Cano with the speed of Altuve with about a .290 BA and a .395 OBP in the minors. Hard to dismiss that. HOWEVER, those numbers were posted mostly in single A ball. While he still put up great numbers in double A before being called up, they did go down a bit, most notably it looked like he forgot how to steal bases in double A.
We shall see. He has major promise though in addition to Kopech. Basabe and Diaz aren’t exactly bums either. Sale while great I don’t trust. I’m floored he hasn’t had Tommy John surgery yet. He has battled arm soreness and strained elbow flexors in his pitching elbow though which have led to DL stints and skipped starts regularly throughout his career. IMO his elbow is a ticking timebomb, but that is just me. Due to the wSox stubbornness and jealousy over the Cubs they have pretty much said no dice on any trade talks with them. If they would be open to a trade I would want Hoyer and Theo to go hard after Quintana…… NOT Sale. To me Quintana is just as good but more reliable. He’s the Hispanic Jon Lester. We already have the White Jon Lester, I would love to have the Hispanic model. 32+ starts and 200+ innings EVERY year and you can count on that to the tune of a low 3.00 ERA and 1.20ish WHIP…… yes please. AND he will likely cost less than Sale because the market is stupid and overvalues strikeouts above anything else?! Gimme. I don’t care how pitchers get guys out as long as they get them out.
Sale in Boston should be interesting. Sale is a fly ball pitcher and gives up a good amount of HRs. Fenway has insanely short dimensions pretty much anything hit toward LF. As a lefty I wonder if he gets teed off on more…. or less….. or about the same frequency. Of the 113 HRs Sale has given up in his career, 49 were hit to straight LF, 28 to Left-Center, and 11 to dead center. So that’s 88 of his 113 hit to dead center and anything left of it. It’s no secret Fenway has the shortest dimensions anything to left field. With 78% of Sales allowed HRs hit in that direction I wonder if the Monster is enough to save him? Sale IS a fly ball pitcher. I wonder if he has as much luck in Boston as Price did his first year there…… who is also a lefty who also saw his HRs allowed total jump in 2016.
I get the excitement among rSox fans, but in addition to his sore elbow past, I wonder if Fenway will mortalize him much like it did Price. Before going to Boston Price averaged 18 HRs allowed per season. In 2016 he allowed 30. Sale already allows about 20-23 HRs/year. I’d be worried. Price and Sale are about the same as far as being more fly ball friendly pitchers than ground ball pitchers. We shall see.
Personally, I never said Moncada disappointed. I actually only saw some very encouraging things and I think he WILL be a star. All I said was today keeping Benintendi seems like a better option.
Guess the city of Birmingham will get to watch most of these stall out at double A for them Barons.
Wonder if the Nats can now offer a slightly lesser package to try Quintana away…
Absolutely not for a few reasons: Rick Hahn stated that anyone with 4 years of control or less could be available: Quintana has more. He has more control and though he doesn’t have the track record as long as Sale, he’s put up nice robust numbers that would make him a #2 in any rotation, and an ace in quite a few. IF TB is looking for the moon for Archer (because of his control), CHW should be doing the same. I would expect that Quintana would fetch more prospects that might not include the top overall prospect in MLB to get it done. But their future rotation of Quintana, Rodon, Kopech could look really nice, especially if Carson Fulmer starts to piece it together.
Q has exactly 4 years of control left. He’s right on the bubble.
Reports on Chicago radio are that they “settled” on the Sale deal to start taking advantage of the Quintana, Abreu, Frazier, Robertson, Cabrera, and Eaton market, if one exists for all of them. From the sounds of it it seems like the White Sox are putting their big boy pants on and actually being decisive for once and committing to a legitimate rebuild. These of course are just reports, it is remained to be seen as to what actually happens. Wouldn’t be the first time the wSox front office claims to be doing something just to chicken out. if they trade Quintana and Abreu the prospect haul they’ll get this offseason will be insane. If you’re a wSox fan you should be excited. I’m a Cub fan and I’m actually finding myself excited for them and their fans. They seemingly aren’t going to continue to lie to themselves and their fans that they are “just a few” pieces away from being legitimate contenders and then make half-a**ed attempts to fill those few holes.
If they commit 100% to this rebuild I sure do feel sorry for Renteria. He was with the Cubs in what was the last year of their rebuild before he abruptly got canned despite having a solid 2014 season working with what he had. Now he’s named the wSox manager and has to go through some dismal seasons while trying to hold onto his job. It will be so heart breaking to see him stick it out for 3 maybe even 4 seasons of suck on the south side just to get canned, and then the new incoming manager starts reaping the rewards of these potential prospects they’re going to acquire and once again Renteria will just miss the start date of contention. That dude deserves to manage a legitimate team, man. He was rock solid in 2014. I find myself missing him when Maddon does some of his lame brain moves (which is quite often…. the Cubs team is just good enough to bail him out of some dumb decisions). Sox have a great manager in Renteria. Hate to see them burn him out by not letting him stay throughout the rebuild….. at least 5 years. They need to give him a long leash.
Yikes, BOSOX in a win now mode.
Boston wrecked the farm, but you have to like them going for it here. They are also one of the teams with a deep enough pocket that they might can get an extension worked out with Sale before his contract is up. The Sox team is definitely shaping up nicely, though they will still miss Big Papi coming into the 2017 season.
Now let’s watch the rest of the dominoes fall. Abreu and Robertson are out the door next.
So Travis and Moncada out, must mean DD is all in on Panda for the next couple seasons?
If by DD you mean “Dunkin Donuts” then yes, DD is all in on Panda. They’ve opened up a few franchises next to his residence and are making his life a living hell.
LOL, best comment of the day! So many Dunkin Donuts in the New England area already.
yeah curious about that too, maybe they see about acquiring frazier too though and see how Panda works out as a DH
It’s Allen Craig time!
I had been thinking the WS plans to rebuild or go for it rested on if they traded Sale at these meetings. If they do have a fire sale they could build up there farm just as quick (probably more so) as the Braves did with the pieces they got
everyone that said Moncada was NOT available should not post again on this site.
WOW that really is a king’s ransom! Interested to see how this plays out!
It was going to have to be. Even in a down year (for him), Sale was still top 6 in Cy Young voting. If Boston wins the WS, though, I doubt any Boston fans will say it wasn’t worth it. As a White Sox fan, I’m glad Sale will finally be able to pitch in meaningful games. I don’t think he’s a bad clubhouse personality as he’s been made out to be by some people; I think it’s the mounting frustration of one lost season after another.
So many basement GM’s on this website, I find it amusing that a handful if you actually think you know more then paid MLB GM’s. Lol
If we can dump Clays salary and trade Pomeranz for anything, this will be a good winter
I would hate to just get “anything” for Pomeranz at this point. I would like to give him another season before Anderson Espinoza was officially wasted.
They already had the opportunity of “dumping” Clay’s salary by not extending him.
Ok, now that the White Sox got a star 2B and some other nice pieces, it’s time to keep going. Next season just became almost entirely irrelevant (aside from giving their rookies a no-pressure initiation into the big leagues), so let’s see what they can get for Quintana, Abreu, Frazier, Robertson, and perhaps even Eaton if the deal is good enough.
Who is the star 2B?
Really dude? Laying the facetiousness on a bit thick, no?
I don’t know why, but this trade kind of reminds me of the Hanley Ramirez trade (When he was a prospect with Boston) and being dealt alongside Annibal Sanchez for Josh Beckett. From what I have read and see from Moncada he could definitely be a what Hanley Ramirez was offensive output wise for the Marlins back in his younger days, and there is no question that Sale can help get The Red Sox to the promised land again. So like that afore mentioned trade. I believe this trade helps both teams accomplish what they wanted.
Comparison for Moncada being tossed around in Chicago now are likening him to Robinson Cano…… with speed.
That would be fantastic.
That’s pretty much been the comparison for years now, even before he started producing in the minors.
Moncada is a very, very high ceiling. You’re talking about a potential .300+/.400+/.500+ middle infielder with 25+ HR, 50+ SB, and above-average defense that can also play multiple positions.
I think baseball reference has the wrong link to Victor Diaz. I heard the one in this deal is 22 and the link leads me to a 34 year old relief pitcher that has pitched in Japan and the independent league.
Yeah it is the wrong guy. Here’s the right link: link to milb.com
Victor Diaz spent the money he earned the money he made while pitching relief in Japan to buy the domain name on baseball-reference. All people who shall look for Victor Diaz shall see me. muhaha!
Now exercising Buchholz’s option makes even less sense… that’s right a blockbuster trade and this is where my mind goes
I wouldn’t worry much about this. Depth in pitching is useful, and he can always be traded, especially if Red Sox want to pay down the contract just a bit.
The only way Dombrowski teams can work is if everyone stays healthy because he exhausts farm systems for big contracts and financially handcuffs team without good options when a key player goes down. I would imagine Bucholtz will be moved very soon now but not sure who will take that salary dump. Red Sox fans should pray for health and a shot at beating the Cubs this year. It will start to decline in 2018 and usually with a coaching change. Then a division rival will be back to full steam and may start looking like the late 90’s all over again.
I hear the Nats are in the market for an arm.
Nats are in the market for a top of the rotation arm, not Buchholz.
With Strasburg, Scherzer, Roark, Ross, and Gonzalez, he wouldn’t make it into their current rotation.
And even injuries happen again, there’s a very good chance at least one or two of Lucas Giolito, Reynaldo Lopez, Erick Fedde, or A.J. Cole emerge as better pitchers than Buchholz.
So I don’t see how Washington would have much use for Buchholz.
If for some reason Chris is sitting at home bored and scrolling through MLB Trade Rumors comment section – Best of luck in Boston. You are/were GREATLY appreciated in Chicago. It’s sad to see you go, but it’s the right time. Hopefully you can finally get the run support you deserve and become a 20+ game winner and grab a couple Cy Young’s to go along with a World Series championship or two. Congrats and thanks for the great memories.
The sox totally got the better end of this deal
I see what you did there, lol
I hope my autographed Moncada baseball card doesn’t lose value !! This is a shocker of a trade. I hope Moncada isn’t another R Castillo bust type. I doubt it. Less pressure now on CWS and this dude will be an annual All Star and challenge Trout as the top player in the game……
Don’t get ahead of yourself. He’s got a LONG ways to go to be compared to Trout. The Nats fanbase rushed to comparisons and claimed Harper was as good as Trout and look how that has turned out. One monster season for Harper surrounded by just above average seasons every other year.
As a Cub fan, if I were a wSox fan I’d just hope/assume Moncada will be better than the likes of Gordon Beckham, hahaha. Set expectations low……. you’ll never be disappointed.
Oh, it certainly will.
Regardless of talent, any Cubs, Red Sox, Yankees, Cardinals, etc. prospect autograph loses a good chunk of value when they move to another team, especially a smaller market team.
I buy and sell autos on eBay, and Dombrowski is really screwing me. I’ve spent a good chunk of money on Espinoza, Kopech, and Moncada autos.
He struggled in his brief stint in the majors after putting up great but not unbelievable numbers in the minors and is expected to challenge TROUT for the best player in the majors?
Are you seriously judging him on 19 ABs?
Clearly my response was iterating that same question.
‘Judging him on 19 at-bats’ would mean that I made a statement of opinion about him such as (but not exclusive to) ‘He will be as good as Trout’ or ‘He will be worse than Milton Bradley’, both claims that I cannot make at this point….
No one in Boston expected Moncada to be Mike Trout….this may be a Chicago thing. They just lost a top 3 SP with arguably the most team friendly contract in MLB history for players who have never succeeded at the ML level. This is great for Boston no matter what…even if Moncada reaches his “Cano” like possible expectations.
Are you kidding me? Everybody in Boston was saying how great he was, and said he’d be one of the best players in the game. And now he’s instantly not since he’s not in Boston.
Bring back Nomaaaaa!
I don’t think it’s fair to compare every trade to the Shelby Miller trade since it was one of the worst trade I can recall, ever, all sports included. Not every GM, and certainly not DD, is named Dave Stewart.
Plus, as a Jays fan, I have been on both sides of these trades. What you like when you trade away your best prospects is to get a known commodity in return. This is why the Dickey, Pomerantz and Miller trades were bad ones at the moment they were made, in my opinion, while the Donaldson’s, Kimbrel’s and now the Sale’s trade look good. In the latter, teams received among the best players in the game at their position. Therefore, the trade (or at least the thought process) can’t be bad, notwithstanding if the prospects pan out or not.
Hopefully this shuts up all you internet GMs. The Red Sox didn’t have to give up their farm to get an ace. This is a better deal than what the Nats were offering anyway.
While I have said all along the wSox asking price (much like the Rays asking price for Archer) are unrealistically high to the point of absurdity, this isn’t exactly an insignificant deal. While WAY less than the wSox were demanding they are still getting the Red Sox #1, #5, #8, and #28 ranked prospects in their system. Going to the wSox system all those guys will likely be in their top 15 now. According to MLB.com Moncada was MLB’s #1 prospect and Kopech #67. This is as far as mid-2016 goes. I wouldn’t be shocked if Basabe cracks the top 100 list when the pre-2017 lists come out and I wouldn’t be shocked if Kopech shoots up to top 40 or even 30 status. With how the wSox like to quickly advance pitching prospects through their system Kopech will likely start 2017 in double A and if he’s lights out will finish the year in triple A. Likely be called up sometime in 2018 barring any injury or general struggles. By no means is this a “small” package. It is only smaller and a lot less than what the wSox were demanding in return for the last 6 months or so. I mean I’m pretty sure mid-season they want both Moncada and Benintendi. Then it turned into Moncada or Benintendi AND Devers. And just recently the package they wanted from the Nationals was considerably more impressive that this one, but still…… this is a pretty solid haul for the wSox. Moncada alone could make it worthwhile. While I think Moncada might be a bit overhyped he should be a solid 2Bman for their future. People are drawing hopeful comparisons to Trout one day. I seriously doubt that. His minor league numbers while great are nowhere near the likes of what, say, Kris Bryant or Kyle Schwarber posted in similar amounts of ABs in the minors. Sure Moncada has more speed but that is the only gaudy statistic he posted in the minors IMO. I think it is reasonable to hope for a .270 BA, .350 OBO, 20 HRs, and 30+ SBs from him in 2017……… whether he does that who knows. But I think that is a reasonable expectation just going by his minors numbers. He might be exactly what is advertised though and hit .285 with a .390 OBP, hit 25+ HRs and steal 40+ bases. Either result I’d say made the trade worth it. There is alway the possibility of a bust factor though. The Cubs have thankfully avoided the bust factor on all their prospects so far……. maybe that luck will extend to the South Side of the city.
Damn!
I didn’t read your entire book, but to be fair, there were never explicit public demands from the White Sox that exceeded this. A lot of it was a snowballing effect from fans in comment sections on this site and others speculating that ‘He’s worth more than the Titanic and Sistine Chapel put together and multiplied by the Holy Grail.’
“His minor league numbers while great are nowhere near the likes of what, say, Kris Bryant or Kyle Schwarber posted in similar amounts of ABs in the minors.”
I wouldn’t really call that a fair comparison… You’re comparing a second baseman to a power hitting third baseman and DH…
And his OPS wasn’t THAT far off to say they were “nowhere near” the other guys. His OPS last year was only about .100 points shy of Bryant’s and Schwarber’s minor league totals. If his numbers translate to the majors like Bryant’s and Schwarber’s have, and you can get that close to those guys from a speedy second baseman, you’re going to be in GREAT shape.
The real value in Moncada is as a true 5 tool player he has elite speed as well. I’m not saying he is going to be Bryant but on tools there is no comparison. His challenge is getting his strikeout percentage down. Once he does that look out he is truly an elite prospect.
KB, for the love of god. The return button. Right side of the keyboard. In the middle. Press it occasionally. Even at random.
So they trade the prospects for him last year and don’t get him, now they’re interested?
This was supposed to be on “Dodgers interested in Frazier”
So, slow day at the winter meetings for the Red Sox
Even trade.
Strategically, though, the Red Sox did probably not have to sacrifice the future in order to win now. There is a good chance Moncada will be a difference making bat as early as next season.
But…I don’t understand. I’ve been reading for months that Sale fetches 6,7 or 8 players. Maybe more. What happened?!
same reports that Clinton was going to win the race.
Common sense, really. You’re never going to see any truthful under-reporting. Team’s are always going to ask for more than what they’ll eventually get – otherwise every trade would be one phone call, a “yep sweet, done” with no negotiation.
I wouldn’t ask for 10k less than what I know I’m going to end up with in salary negotiations…
They got the best prospect in the game instead
That’s well worth the established best pitcher in the AL. Moncada might be great….Chris Sale is great.
Thank You White Sox,
Your Truly
Red Sox fans
And Moncada’s salary is also paid for by Boston.
Someone correct Bruce Levine; what is he talking about? Moncada’s “deal” was a $31.5M SIGNING BONUS, and his “salary” was the usual for a minor leaguer. The “rest” of the $60M+ was a penalty assessed by MLB, and didn’t go to Moncada.
Because the money was a signing bonus, Boston was ALWAYS on the hook for “all of it”, because it is not salary. Yes, the money was spread out in payments over three years (two have already passed), but Chicago was never going to be on the hook for that.
Now we see the whole picture and why more prospects were not included. The Red Sox are covering the remainder of Moncadas salary, $31M.
That’s not salary, it is a signing bonus. They are obligated to that. They aren’t out of their good graces “covering” it so the wSox don’t have to.
I see so many people saying “Moncada is just an unproven prospect”.
True, but he’s not an ordinary prospect. He was the #3 overall prospect last season and is a sure bet for the number one overall this season.
He’s one of fifteen players to be ranked in the top three by Baseball America since 2010 (excluding Oscar Taveras).
How’d the other fourteen pan out?
Superstars: Trout, Stanton, Strasburg, Harper, Seager, Bryant, Bogaerts
Potential Superstars: Russell
Above-Average Major Leaguers: Heyward, Moore
Jury’s still out: Buxton, Profar, Bundy
Flopped: Montero
In the past six years, prospects in the top three have a 50% chance of becoming superstars, and a 6.67% chance of completely flopping. Those are pretty good odds, if you ask me.
And when you add in another top 50 prospect (Kopech), a high-ceiling guy who easily makes the ChiSox Top Ten at the moment (Basabe), and a guy who definitely has the tools to be a high leverage reliever (Diaz), this was in no way a light package.
Maybe but over here in Red Sox Nation all we’ve been hearing is “no way this deal gets done unless Betts or Bogearts are involved” and then to see we didn’t lose any starting MLB players in this deal?
I’m just glad fans in Chicago are happy about it too because I feel like we got an elite SP for free….
I’m a Boston fan…where in the world did you hear that? Perhaps from insane people who know nothing about the game, but Betts and Bogaerts were nowhere near being traded for anybody this offseason. They’re both younger than Sale, under control for equal or more years, will cost less, and are as good or better than him. Nobody except the extremely ignorant thought Boston would include Betts or Bogaerts in any trade.
I’m glad they didn’t give up Benintendi, considering Chicago wanted him, too, But in no way did they acquire him for “free”. I can’t recall a prospect as good as Moncada ever being traded in the past few decades. Wil Myers and Paul Konerko are perhaps the closest, but Moncada is still a significantly better prospect than they were at the time of their trades. As I said above, there’s a very, very high success rate for guys ranked that high. And Kopech is an easy Top 50 Prospect with TOTR potential. Add in Basabe (young but very high ceiling) and Diaz (likely a future high-leverage reliever), this was a gigantic package sent over by Boston.
lol glad nats didn’t get him
YES! Just saw this alert! Yeeeeeaaaahhhhhh. Was hoping that they got Abreu too but this is pretty awesome.
I feel the Sox got a good deal here. Didn’t give up JBJ or Benintendi. Moncada and Kopech would’ve been nice, but give me 3 years of Chris Sale any day.
I feel like Dombrowski fleeced the Pale Hose….
Somewhere out there, bigpapi4ever just wet himself.
Where did bigpapi go?!?!?
He retired.
Lol was thinking the same.
This is insane. I can’t believe the BoSox got Chris Sale without parting with Betts, Bogearts, Bradly or Benintendi. Only 1 SP over the last 5 years has more K’s and a lower ERA than Sale and that guy just happens to be Clayton Kershaw. Oh and Sale will be paid about 1/3 of what Kershaw makes over the next 3 years. This is insanity, could not have gone any better for the Red Sox. I literally feel like we gave up nothing for one of the 3 best SP’s in the game. Moncada might be great,s ure. Chris Sale IS GREAT…like right now.
And the Boston stupidity continues. Current day Yankees in stupidity. Could have had Hamels for Swihart. BwaaaHaaaaaHaaa. Look what they paid now
Got Sale, who is WAY better than Hamels, for no one who has ever had success at the ML level?
That is stupid?
You probably would have been in favor of trading Mike Trout in 2010 for an established starting pitcher because Trout had never had success at the ML level.
No one outside of delusional fans thinks Moncada is going to be the next Mike Trout….
I wanted to move Swihart for Hamels… Wish we had.
That is just not true it was never Hamels for Swihart straight up as a matter of fact they wanted Betts and Swihart for Hamels and the Red Sox rightly refused. Remember the guy that was trying to trade for Betts and Swihart is now a coach on the Red Sox and that is what they wanted for Hamels he also said Red Sox were right not to trade those players for Hamels.
White sox just cleaned up on this one, 2 of Boston’s top 5 prospects plus two other prospects and still have to pay moncada’s signing bonus and tax, kinda offsets Sales years of contract control.
Trade works because Sale can win the World Series for you. He is more reliable than any other Boston starter. Red Sox can now challenge the pitching staffs of the Indians and Cubs. Picking up the 31 million left on Moncada means they are paying 20 million per year for Sale.
So it appears that White Sox were waiting for an elite position player hence why they wanted Turner, Swanson, Bergman or Moncada. The Red Sox could let Moncada go without disturbing the current roster. Once the Red Sox agreed to trade Moncada it was probably done at that point. I think it is a good haul for the White Sox but the Red Sox are still primed for long term success. They will probably trade one of there lefties now to replenish some prospects im guessing that is what is going to happen. Good deal for the Red Sox but let’s be honest they were the only ones that really could pull this off without one of their everyday regulars. This is a better haul then what the Nats could give without Trea Turner. Good trade for both teams little surprised DD was able to do this without including JBJ.
“Good trade for both teams little surprised DD was able to do this without including JBJ.”
I agree with this. To me, that signals that Kenny Williams was left in the dark on this move, which is a GREAT sign for the moves to be made going forward. While I would’ve loved to get JBJ, he wouldn’t make a ton of sense. But it’d TOTALLY be a Kenny move to insist on JBJ and end up trading Sale straight up for him.
Hopefully Sale can help you guys win a ring.
Hope so man and hope you guys enjoy Moncada and Kopech. I think Moncada is going to be a monster.
I am told it was make official about 30 seconds ago. Confirmed by both clubs.
**made
Am I the only one to like this trade ? Boston has Pedroia standing at 2nd they had the luxury to trade a prospect like Moncada. Sure they paid a lot but I think it’s a good move by DD
I’m biased to like the Sox moves but in this case I think its a fair trade. The Sox get an ACE who is only 27 years old and has three more seasons of team control, and they didn’t hurt their major league talent at all to do it! Yeah their farm system takes a hit, but they basically just bought Moncada off the broken international signing system anyway; he was always been a luxury. After all the trade DD has made, they still have kept Bogaerts, Betts, Bradley, Benintendi, Devers, Travis, Swihart & Vazquez… That right there is a starting 3B, SS, 1B, LF, CF, RF and C for the foreseeable future. Only position player without a long term plan is 2B, but they have years to figure that out. And their 3some of Price, Porcello and Sale or no older than 31, not to mention Wright, ERod, Owens, Johnson, Groome… The Sox future is bright.
Great job Braves way to hold on to a bunch of farm league talent maybe one will be a good 3 man on the rotation. Terrible time to be a Braves fan
Nobody will know if they paid too much or not for a while. The Phillies cleaned out their farm for Halladay and cliff lee, hunter pence,
And didn’t even get the Red Sox top prospect.
link to baseballprospectus.com