As you might expect, today’s live chat with MLBTR owner Tim Dierkes included many questions involving Bryce Harper and Manny Machado. Click here to read the transcript. You can catch Tim’s chats every Monday at 2pm central time.
As you might expect, today’s live chat with MLBTR owner Tim Dierkes included many questions involving Bryce Harper and Manny Machado. Click here to read the transcript. You can catch Tim’s chats every Monday at 2pm central time.
darn, didnt get my Brach comment answered
What is it?
how likely is Brach to sign with a NY team? (giving he is from North Jersey and both NY teams could still be in the market for a BP arm)
I think he’s fairly reasonable for each team (perhaps the Yankees more than the Mets) but I wouldn’t call them favorites. As far as I know he’s just trying to get a good contract somewhere.
okay, thanks Tim. Hoping to get my question in quicker next time so I don’t have to post it here.
Moreno is not going to bring in an immature player for a huge contract. Machado, is an immature player, and that’s about the best thing you can say about his character. I don’t know why analyst do not realize that October cost him more than a few suitors.
The Angels, like every other smart team, would much rather go all in for Arenado, even if it cost them a lot more money.
If that was the case, then you’d think the Angels would have shown some interest in Harper then, huh
No. Harper’s performance is volatile, but the bigger reason is Jo Adell who will be in the Angels outfield in 2020.
When you have Upton and Trout and then your three best minor league prospects are outfielders, you’re probably not going after an outfielder. Outfield is not a need.
I doubt Trout is going anywhere. The Angels will either have a new stadium, or spend nine+ figures renovating it. Trout likes it in Anaheim, and Arte will do everything imaginable to sign him.
Trout REALLY likes it in South Jersey.
He sure does. But four years ago he wanted to sign a lifetime deal here. Why Moreno didn’t do it is beyond me.
His first choice is to stay here. With a new stadium and a splash in the 2020 market, and Moreno desperately wanting to sign him, I’d be surprised, not shocked, if he left.
Possibly because the analysts listen to people who actually work in front offices and none of them seem to share your opinion on this matter?
That’s where you are wrong. Front offices tell reporters what they can. They don’t dare tell reporters they won’t sign a guy. There are rules against such things. I know, my Brother-in-Law is a guy who votes for the Hall of Fame. I’ve never heard anything interesting from him. If you want to lose your job, tell a reporter you are not interested in a player. .
In your wildest dreams do you think Arte Moreno tells reporters he’s not going to make a serious offer to Machado? That would be collusion. That would be a huge fine. By the way, I’m not saying I’ve heard that. I haven’t.
I follow the Angels and Moreno has never signed or traded for a known cheater or a malcontent. He was openly furious with Mathews Jr and Hamilton. I’d be shocked if he was interested in Machado.
Finally, my friend hangs out with them. I learn a lot more from my friend than my brother in law.
Correct. Moreno will never sign a player with that type of attitude like Machado. Tell me if this sounds familiar: “2004 ANAHEIM, Calif. — Angels left fielder Jose Guillen was
suspended for the rest of the season Sunday for his outburst after being lifted for a pinch runner a day earlier.”
You saying I’m wrong with absolutely no evidence that I am makes pretty much everything you say after that suspect
You trying to play the ‘i know a guy who knows a guy’ card makes everything you say worthless…
Why do you keep writing about FO personnel as if employees are monolithic?
MLB FO personnel are like employees everywhere. First off, they want to keep their jobs. Then they want raises and to be promoted. Some play politics; some try to get ahead by sandbagging competitors; some are sharp; most think they’re sharp but they’re not; and a good portion are dufuses.
With the countless bad decisions that come out of every teams FO each year, you think these people are demigods? If you’re that lost, how do you know how they think.
When it comes to telling reporters things which baseball and the union forbade, they have monolithic polices.
If we are talking about the Angles. I follow them… It’s an opinion. I have no inside information on this specific example. But writers should realize that some owners didn’t take kindly to Machado’s actions last October.. I’d be shocked if Moreno wasn’t one of those owners.
Demigods? Talk about a non sequitur. I have no idea what that has to do with front offices, the union, MLB and owners who don’t want to bring in players who do not have the best of reputations.
The point still stands. You can claim it matters, but that’s all your opinion since you have nothing to back it up besides your own assumptions.
If you’re wondering why analysts don’t care about your opinions/assumptions, it’s because you don’t have any say in what a team will or won’t do.
Arenado is not making more money than Machado , older and Denver …..
Plus rendon.
Bring Jason back at all cost. He is by far the best chat host and definitely gives mlbtr more of a stat based chat then either ofnour other two hosts.
You could possibly hit him up on Twitter? @mlbdepthcharts
I have to respectfully disagree. His chats where long on time but short on answers/content IMHO. I found that I would catch Steve and Jeff’s chats 99%+ of the time but if I missed Jason’s it was no big deal….no offence intended Jason.
^
This.
I was always under the impression that he preferred to avoid Cubs-related questions in his chats. But I have a lot of respect for his knowledge.
Why did he leave?
First thing Tim mentions in the chat…………..
“I bought Roster Resource and hired Jason in the summer of 2016. I loved the work he was doing on the site and figured I could improve it on the technical side, blow up its traffic, enjoy having Jason on the staff contributing, and make it a profitable addition.
I failed – the only thing that came true was that Jason was awesome to work with. I just couldn’t improve RR on the technical side or find a path to even making it neutral on revenue. I have given RR back to Jason and we will continue linking to it regularly and hopefully working with him. But, he’s no longer employed by Trade Rumors, he’s on his own again.
Please continue enjoying it! rosterresource.com/“
I like Jason as a reporter, contributor, but his chats were kinda lacking. They were long, but slow paced and he gave a lot of non-answers. He is very knowledgeable, but it seemed like he picked dumb questions just for the purpose of dismissing them, rather than answering them.
Was his the ones with the ridiculous amount of padres questions? Wish him well but wont miss that.
I just can’t wrap my mind around playing baseball for 30 million a year and debating it. I’d take 8 years, 30 million a year, and retire after 8 years.
It’s never about the amount of money or what’s “enough” for a human being, but it’s about the market value of today’s superstar players.
And about being paid fairly for the amount of money your hard work earns
You also won’t be able to wrap your head around the money the owners and mlb makes each year either.
$62,000 per hour (3 hour average game) is fair market value for hard work?? This is why owners are not wanting to sign these huge contracts (which I don’t agree with owners raking in more benefits). At the same time, if they don’t sign players to huge contracts, then they need to lower the costs to the consumer, but they won’t.
I want my team to do well, but I’d like to be able to afford to go to a game, afford food and drinks, afford merchandise, but at this rate, it just won’t be worth going.
BTW, my initial comment was more of a YES PLEASE kind of comment with a twist of wow, what have we come to?
OOPS… not geared towards you Strike Four lol *chugs beer*
They also train, work out, travel, do press – they work way the hell more than three hours a day, let alone the fact that ideally they work all year round to stay in shape and such. And people will pay someone what the market will bear, and the career of a professional athlete is incredibly short.. Might as well maximize it while they can.
And the ticket prices and merch prices are the same – MLB and its teams will charge what the market will bear. Ticket revenue is a tiny revenue stream for a MLB franchise.
It’s been discussed many times that player salaries have very little impact on ticket and concessions prices. Costs of running the stadium are a much bigger factor here. As we keep building bigger, nicer stadiums with more things to do (digital clubhouses, kids play areas, more higher end restaurants, etc.), those stadiums cost more to operate…
Jo Daddy…………….
Does it bother you that the 10 highest paid actors in the world made a combined $748.5 million between June 1, 2017, and June 1, 2018? Robert Downey Jr. got paid $15M (of his $81M total) for a small roll for the upcoming Spider-Man: Homecoming but I bet you don’t even think of it when you go to the movies.
There is a similarity between the two…..they are in a specialized profession that few can do.
Think about this….in about 150 years of MLB there has only been roughly 19,200 people who managed to play the game. That includes guys called up for “a cup of tea”, bench warmers, defensive specialists and the cream of the crop. It takes a lot to rise to the top and it sure as hell is a lot more than just playing a 3 hour game.
His head may explode hearing what 0.1%’s make in finance/investment banking/hedge funds.
No, it bothers me more that you either looked all of that up, guessed thinking no one will 2nd guess your numbers, or knew this off hand. All of which are disturbing. 😉
market values and peoples worth are misconstrued.
Also, I don’t go to the movies. Cost is too damn high. 😉
I also know salaries are paid for by merchandise sales, etc., while a lot of stadium costs are being paid for by the cities in which they reside. AKA tax dollars.
To the real estate comparison, bad analogy. To own an apartment, I had to pay for it first, therefor getting my money in return is beneficial vs losing money on it. A baseball player looking for a contract is not previously owned by someone trying to get the money spent on the player.
k. I’m done getting a rise of you all lol. I’d still take 250 million and be happy. Probably never 2nd guess the 300 million.
Is that what you are doing, trying to get a rise out of people ? I didn’t realize that. I thought we were just having a discussion here.
Machado himself has spent his entire life investing in himself to become a great baseball player, as well as possessing the core talent to become one. Those are his assets. He is marketing his own value and worth in the marketplace within which he functions.
LOL, I was serious about I’d take the money and run, but that is my reality vs others. I wasn’t putting fair market value etc into. I was saying holy shitake that is a lot of money. I, my kids, their kids, etc. would have a hard time spending all of it. Invest right and your family is set for life. The comments that followed led me to run with it lol
Funny thing is how the White Sox offer is WAY lower. Don’t murder me, but I’d still take it. If I hustled my whole life to be a Machado, I’d probably not make stupid comments right before my big off season. Some people have to work for it, others are just gifted. Machado is not gifted with gab 🙂
If you owned a luxury apartment building and the Market value was 300 Million, how would you try to sell it ? You would probably try to market it somewhat above market value and see if you were able to get the extra revenue.
If you received a lowball offer of 240 Million for something the building you believe to be worth 300M, you would probably put that on the back burner and only agree to such a deal if you really needed to move the property.. If you had more time to wait, you would wait.
If you had two potential buyers, and all things being equal with regards to taxes, and one offered 280 Million and the other offered 240 million, you would not leave 40 million on the table.
While obviously baseball player contracts and real estate transactions are not perfectly analogous, it would be irresponsible of both Machado and his agent to not carefully consider all offers, or potential offers, and try to maximize his future earnings. Very occasionally we see a player leave a lot of money on the table and take a lesser deal. But it’s rare, and for good reason. Baseball is a business…..big business. Tens of millions, hundreds of millions are in play on the individual level, and Baseball as an industry had over 10 Billion in revenue last year. People in business don’t leave tens of millions on the table when there is a chance to get it. They just don’t.
I’d happily retire after one year at two million.
99% of athletes aren’t wired like that. They have literally dedicated their lives and usually 20+ years to the sport and their mindset isn’t to cash-in and then retire. Individual legacy, fame, etc. Money is only one factor.
“I’m not sure Wei-Yin Chen’s contract was good for baseball”.
I AM sure Wei-Yin Chen’s contract was VERY good for Wei-Yin Chen……..
im sure he’d prefer to play somewhere besides MIA, but he can’r argue with the cash at least.
I really do hope the angels pull the trigger on Harper or Machado to back up Mike trout. Either way the fans pay the bills so I say go for it .
The Angels don’t need an outfielder. The Angels also don’t need a player who is as immature as Machado.
Pass.
The Angels tried the “star” route. They signed Pujols to that big contract, and he was decent for a couple years, but not the great player they thought he was, They signed CJ Wilson that same year.
The next year they added Josh Hamilton (5 years, 125 million) and they’re finally through with him. He played two years with a combined negaive WAA,; then went back to Texas, then out of MLB. (with the Angels still paying him, of course).
Actually, I wouldn’t mind if the Angels signed Harper and/or Machado. My teams are the Dodgers and the Mariners.
Pujols was already past 30, and Machado is 25. Huge difference. Hamilton was pretty broken by the time the Angels got him, too.
I do miss Jason. You have a fantastic team at MLBTR though.
Re: “How are great players no longer attractive?”, I think they are, just not at the price point the players and agents think they should be.
It is entirely rational to believe that you can get more value for your team spending $35million per year on Micheal Brantley, Marwin Gonzalez and a decent reliever than spending that on just Bryce Harper, isn’t it?
ucat2006 owners have tons of money, season tickets cost us plenty to watch mediocrity, they owe me the fan to buy talent since they go cheap on international and terrible minors
ucat2006 owners have tons of money, season tickets cost us plenty to watch mediocrity, they owe me the fan to buy talent since they( Phillies )go cheap on international and terrible minor league development. time for them to spend.
Southpaw I understand the sentiment, but as a Reds fan I’d rather have seen a winning team rather than just having Ken Griffey Jr. in the lineup every day. Seeing Griffey in a Reds uniform was a dream come true for Reds fans but the joy only lasts so long.
I’m sure that a lot of Angels fans were ecstatic to see their team sign Pujols, who is one of the best any of us will ever see play in our lifetimes. That doesn’t make the Pujols signing good for the Angels, though, right?
Tim I saw your earlier comments regarding Philly with Machado and Harper and only moving them up slightly in division. I had a different way of looking at it other than being a stats geek just looking at the range defensively, hoskins moving back to first and Segura to shortstop, defense on base and power added with Machado Harper you get more runs per game to go with a stronger bullpen. McCutcheon is a plus but need a lefty starter and a healthy 4/ 5 starter. They should be better than 4-6 wins improved.
Does this mean you’re going to be hiring a new writer?
I know the M’s are “re-imagining” but why wouldn’t they take a chance with bryce harper for 8 years at 300 million dollars. He would still be in his prime during the 2020 or 2021 season. He would be 34 at the end of the contract. I know the mariners signed the crazy Cano contract… but he was signed at age 30 for 10 years. When harper was batting at “t-mobile field” aka safeco field he was hitting home runs with ease. I figure the mariners are as good of a destination compared to the white sox and Phillies in a few years.
I think the Mariners don’t want to sign Harper because . . . he just isn’t that good. Compare his WAR and WAA with some other good players. Harper is a good hitter, not a great one, and he is a defensive liability. The Mariners want athletic players who are good defenders. Harper would have fit in better with the pre-Dipoto Mariners.
Dodgers. Sign Machado. Screw Harper. Machado will hit 35 homers guaranteed. You lost 110 or more homers in the off season. Move seager to 2nd. Muncie, Bellinger and Taylor in the outfield. Freeze at first. No problem.
I think Machado is already unpopular in Los Angeles. I’m a Dodger fan who would NOT want the Dodgers to sign MM or Harper. Harper just isn’t that good.
I want to win. Unpopular players be damned
The danger with signing high priced talent is that they go down and end up on the DL. Aren’t you better off with quality players who cost less
A couple of factors why both Harper and Machado don’t have 5+ suitors each.
1 MLBPA just got this last CBA wrong, way wrong in terms of where the CBT line was set and the nature of penalties for those that go over and in particular forcing a reset for those perpetually over. I am surprised no one talks about this more. MLB has had more NBA type trades these past couple of years, dead money
2 I think the another factor going on is without question both Harper & Machado are going to ask for opt-outs after 2021 to see what the new CBA and the new MLB TV contract looks like. On a 3yr deal maybe you’d like to think everyone could be “in” on a guy…. maybe THIS is why CLE continues to shop Kluber so they can make a Harper run.
Think about who is out supposedly on both guys,
BOS, already over the CBT and both those guys taking them over the 2nd line with the need to extend their own stars
CHC/SF while under CBT, both had players on long term deals that included opt-outs that maybe they expected players would exercise but due to injury/poor performance stayed. They’ve lost payroll flexibility and taking on such a contracts is painful. Clearly CHC is a fit for Harper but Heyward’s deal is killing them and SF is taking calls on Bumgarner how are they then in on Harper who might fit them more than any team.
NYY only appear to be in on one of them (Machado), then again they traded for Stanton + have Judge.
I do agree with Tim, WTF is up with the LAD, I am Giant’s fan and I applaud how my team “went for it” for basically a decade even when maybe they shouldn’t always have. LAD had a generational/HOF pace pitcher at his peak and I’m not certain in any year they made those prospect deals to truly set themselves up for a deep run. They got out bid by MIL and PIT last year for arms for last tradeline, WHAT? Last time I checked they don’t give out rings and trophies for farm system rankings.
X factor, these sort of deals are “ownership” level and ownership has changed from individuals to much larger groups, the recency bias on these types of deals isn’t the best. Yes these two are younger but they are accomplished in the same way say a Barry Bonds was entering free agency or Mike Trout is presently. There’s still some potential to realize when looking at their supposed $ ask.
Nailed it with these comments. Would like to elaborate on one point.
All of the players that have previously signed “mega” contracts have screwed the likes of Harper & Machado. It’s like the old movie Groundhog Day with these contracts. Player signs a crazy contract and all the teams fans rejoice! Dreams of World Series ensue and fans rush to buy merchandise. These dreams quickly turn into nightmares as the fans realize they are stuck with an albatross of a contract that prevents their team from signing players that are needed to put them over the top. The GM starts scrambling for ways to do a salary dump onto another team. Fans are bummed as they realize they aren’t going to get great prospects back when they trade the player that they were so excited about just a few years ago. Frustration sets in as a team goes through a rebuild.
This scenarios has played out in so many ballparks. This offseason it was the Mariners dumping Cano. Every offseason the same script takes place, just the name of the team changes.
The NL should get the DH once Bartolo Colon officially retires, and not a day sooner!