Liberty Media CEO Greg Maffei briefly discussed the Braves outlook at a conference yesterday, as Tim Tucker of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution writes. The publicly traded conglomerate owns the Atlanta baseball club.
“I think the Atlanta management knows they have capacity to do more and are looking for the right deal,” Maffei said of the club’s present stance with regard to spending.
That sentence could be read in different ways. It’s unclear whether Maffei was referring to spending availability or trade capital. Neither is it evident how dedicated the club’s pursuit of “the right deal” is at present.
A few free agents would still fit the Braves roster, with former star closer Craig Kimbrel representing the most intriguing target for reasons practical and sentimental. Trade discussions could still be pursued as well; the deal that originally shipped Kimbrel out of Atlanta took place on the eve of Opening Day.
[RELATED: Let’s Find A Landing Spot For Craig Kimbrel]
In their own recent commentary on the organization’s spending, Braves chairman Terry McGuirk and GM Alex Anthopoulos similarly cited remaining payroll flexibility. They also downplayed the possibility of a major spend on a relief arm, emphasized the need to avoid “dead money” risk, and called a major acquisition before the start of the season a “coin flip.”
Whether or not another move is made, Maffei says, the Braves are “well set-up” for the coming season and beyond. He also called it “unfortunate” that the club plays in a division embroiled in a winter-long “arms race” — a state of affairs that arguably supports more aggressive acquisition efforts from the reigning National League East champions.
Ramping up payroll and/or committing it more freely would surely boost the immediate outlook. McGuirk and Anthopoulos previously indicated, though, that the ballclub must also pursue long-term profitability to support a higher payroll in relation to peer organizations. Maffei suggests that the outlook is bullish on the income side of the equation, calling SunTrust Park and its surrounding development a “highly successful” venture that he believes has “only good news ahead.”
I have yet to read one of these types of articles that mentions how the remaining capital could be used for early extensions. The team has a slew of young superstars that would be excellent candidates for this.
For about $300 million, the team could either keep its entire young core in place for a few additional seasons, OR it could have signed a Bryce Harper. I know which option I’d prefer, but I also know that most fans view signing a player like Harper as an expense for this season and not necessarily the long-term boat anchor that it actually is. A mid-market team like the Braves is far better served by spreading the risk around with a bunch of very good players as opposed to tying all of their hopes and dreams up with a single player.
Fans that wanted Harper really don’t get it. They could’ve signed 2 or 3 other good players for his cost but they went bargain bin shopping outside of Donaldson. I would absolutely love to see them spend money to extend Camargo, Folty, and Acuna or use their prospect capital to improve the team. The problem is Liberty Media doesn’t care about the Braves success, only if they make them money.
Surprised you included Camargo on that list. To me he seems like nothing more than a utility player with a plus bat. Gives me Marwin Gonzalez/Kike Hernandez vibes, and those types of players aren’t really the ones you try to extend.
Because versatility is sooo antiquated in baseball. In my humble opinion, having a Culberson or Camargo on your squad is extremely important. Especially in today’s game where you carry fewer bench pieces.
They just increased the roster size to 26.
It takes two to tango. Great idea to extend top talents like Acuna BUT it requires Acuna to want to give up his future earning potential. I’m sure he sees Harper and recognizes that’s him in 5 years if things go well and he doesn’t sign a deal giving away FA years. Betts or Harper or Bauer or one of a hundred other players, they aren’t interested in locking up a long-term deal unless the odds are highly tilted in their favor. Basically, an offer they can’t refuse.
You bring up an excellent point. We will extend Sam Freeman at $5M over 5 years.
~ Terry McGuirk
Whatever.
Why are you such a nancy? Did you really want Atlanta to go out and blow hundreds of millions on players? What about the future? What about the upcoming expenses for Acuna, Pache, Albies, Swanson, Folty, Newcomb, and then the host of pitching arms that’ll be due as well.
But, you’re right, let’s just through $200m for Kimbrel and another $40 million for a bench bat.
Pache has 7 career homers in the minors. If he reaches 150% of his “potential” he might be an MVP one day like Harper. You’re part of the problem, stop it.
Pache is not a home run hitter. He’s a contact hitter with excellent defensive skills. Think Andruw Jones with better average and less HR.
They spent 140 million on a new spring training facility instead
lol exactly
1. No one wants to spend the money the way you mentioned.
2. Only Folty is close to free agency while the others are at minimum 3 years away.
3. They can increase spending this year and still have plenty of funds available for the future since 25 million will again come off the books after this season when Donaldson and McCann are FA.
4. It’s possible to spend now while also prepping for future expenses.
Absolutely Braves should’ve spend more this offseason. All the young guys are years away from arbitration let alone free agency. No need to worry about signing them now. Braves should have signed a guy like Harper or Machado or at the least Kimbrel and Keuchel. I’ve been on these boards for many years and it’s the same delusional day dreamers all the time thinking we can win without spending. Back in the day it was Jeff Franceour and Jason Heyward. Tell me when was the last time we won a playoff series ??? 2001 2002 ??? And you’re still contend with being a loser franchise. Bottom line Liberty Media is terrible for the Braves and they sold all their fans bags of coal. Payroll should be minimum $160-$170 mil not downgrade to $120 or whatever it’s at. Smh
Thank you, spot on sarmz! We are simply tired of being played like puppets on a string, live up to what you told us or get out!
Nobody wants to be the squeaky wheel, but enough is enough..
You don’t tell your children all the toys they’re getting for christmas after the big list was made them) affffter YOU enabled that list) because daddy got a big raise and that we have money to shop in every dang aisle AND THEN say, “oh just kidding, here’s some old stuff I found laying around the shed, hopefully it lasts a year and doesn’t break..”
Where the heck did you come up 200 million for Kimbrel?
Words are wind.
Ill wind, when some try to make their point via name-calling.
Please just sell the team.
I miss when Ted Turner owned the Braves.
Unfortunately, he liked rearing bison (making a terrible lean burger) a lot more and sold it to a corporation that didn’t care about it – (during this time the terrible TV deal was signed). For as much adulation as he receives, he got us knee-deep in corporate greed.
In fairness to Ted, it’s my understanding, he had nothing to do with the TV contract. I’ve been waiting for years now for an investigating reporter to do a write up on just how a TV contract that bad was allowed and who gained the most by it. It seemed criminal then and even more now, in my opinion.
Responsible? No. Complicit? Yes. Fact is, he sold the Braves as a bi-product to a major entertainment sell, which is exactly how Liberty (owners of Sirius XM radio, Formula One Racing, and much more) treats them. No one actually knows, reportedly, who at Time Warner authorized that terrible TV deal, but the fact that a major company missed the boat and allowed a contract that would hurt their value for years to come is, at best: incompetence. IF Ted Turner still wanted to own the Braves and be filthy rich – he’d still own the Braves and be filthy rich.
Theyre sure feeling the heat over all these empty promises and MLBTR is loving the drama, there’s always a winner.
(typing with war paint on)
Can we change the team name first before it’s sold??
No
He trolls every article.
stop feeding the troll!
They won their division last year, have a cheap core, a new taxpayer funded stadium, the rest of the division is stocking up, and they drop payroll. Absolute scumbags.
Blame McGuirk and co more than Liberty. They basically handed complete control of how the Braves were run to them when they spun off the entire operation as the Liberty Braves Group. Most Braves fans and AJC just like to use Liberty as a punching bag and ignore the basic facts of how the Braves are actually run because it doesn’t fit their narrative.
What would you have done different, armchair GM?
Easy, aloof supporter.
Sign Yasmani Grandal
Sign Ottavino
Sign Familia
At minimum.
It’s hard to say they should have landed an outfielder without knowing the asking prices of other teams, but it’s fair to speculate the Braves were cheap there too.
Probably would have looked at landing Renfroe. Realistic target without blowing the bank most likely
Not signed McCann and Markakis, non tendered Duvall, trade Tehran, make a real run at Bryce, acquire a TOR starter, solidified the back end of the pen.
Probably would have signed Sergio Romo and Bud Norris as cheap options.
Probably would go ahead and sign Kuechel.
Instead of going with Markakis, I would have traded
Smoke and mirrors, delved $140 million into a new spring training occupancy to make more money off tickets, food, and beer like SunTrust. It’s right out there in front of your eyes.. All they want is your money, money, money!
You say they are all about money but wouldn’t they sell a lot more tickets by signing Kimbrel? Wouldn’t that be the better decision if they prioritize business over winning (though they can be mutually beneficial)?
No. This has been studied multiple times. An individual, high priced, player does not offset their expense through more tickets/jerseys/concession stands, etc revenue. Winning certainly helps but even then it often doesn’t correlate with the higher salary that is often required to win.
At the end of the day it’s a business. All teams want your money money money.
Why do I read his name as Greg Mafia?
What’s the reason(s) why the Atlanta Braves have lost 12 of their last 13 postseason series?
Why does everyone keep saying Kimbrel is a perfect fit for Atlanta? Closer is not a dire need for Atlanta.
Top of the rotation arm is more important.
*edit* Not sure why it posted here. Didn’t mean to.
Mediocrity, good not great lineup, no reliable shut down 1-2 punch.
This is business. Team ownership maximizing marketing and profitability. This is also the future…family-owned teams are gradually disappearing, or control/ownership passes from the older generation, who saw themselves as sportsmen, and wanted to win, and the younger one, who is more bottom-line oriented. Hanging on the gauzy memories of “the old man spending and finally winning one” is good for day-dreams, but it’s less and less a reality.
This offseason was eye opening as a Braves fan. We kept hearing 2019 is the window to compete and their payroll decreases! It’s so infuriating.
You’re comparing the end of year 2018 to beginning of 2019. Why not wait until end of year 2019 to see where it lands? What if they make a trade at the deadline and bring on $20m in salary? Would you still complain then?
Why do you want them to spend money just to spend? They gave JD $23m for one year, they don’t have any glaring holes in the roster (find one) and top shelf pitching (which they need) doesn’t come cheap and isn’t overly plentiful. Those #1 arms will come at a huge cost.
I don’t understand why all Braves fans are acting like it’s their own personal money they are spending on players. I don’t understand why it is ok apparently to drop payroll after A) They move into a new stadium and B) Made the playoffs a year earlier and won the division. The holes in their lineup aren’t glaring, but if you honestly think that Markakis and McCann were the best options available then we are of a different mindset. If they did sign Harper for 25 million they would’ve been 8 million dollars over the league average payroll for 2019.
Also the no people going to the stadium argument works against anyone who opposes the Harper signing. 100,000 tickets sold in 2 days and the most jerseys ever sold in 2 days. That usually helps fill the stadium and gets the fans pumped for the seasons to come. Instead it was 4 million on Markakis, 2 million on McCann and 23 for Donaldson who they didn’t even need. They had holes, filled them with cheap 1 year veterans and their big acquisition was at a position that didn’t need to be filled. They still have no number one or two starter and RF is still a glaring hole for the 2020 season. Oh and they have done nothing to the bullpen. This was a failure of an offseason coming off an NL East title.
While 25 million for Harper seems reasonable, what about the back end of that contract where they owe him 22+ million a year until he’s 40 years old? For the Phillies it works because they can just rack it up as sunk cost and go spend another 22 million elsewhere. The Braves don’t like the term sunk cost. Take BJ Upton and Dan Uggla as examples. Once that money is spent they can’t just cut the player and go spend that money again.
Then become a better franchise and care about winning, win playoff games/series, win titles, put the best product out there so you can attract fans to the ballpark on a nightly basis and do the same! It’s not like they’re just stuck and just didn’t build a BRAND NEW stadium in a VERY wealthy suburb of Atlanta for no reason. It was supposed to be for the fans and the team, but fingers got sticky..
And If Harper continues to decline (you didnt think he would last year either), how many tickets and jerseys will be sold in future years. Miggy isn;t a selling point in Detroit, but still has to get paid. As a fan, I could care less about what the payroll is. I care about the play on the field, and have no problems with the Braves going forward with what they have, seeing what needs develop as the season progress, and having the flexibility to fill that need. Sound rather sensible to me.
BJ (Melvin) Upton and Dan Uggla aren’t on the same level as Harper. The 25 million was just adding Harper they could’ve added 2 RP and Grandal, or trade for Greinke. The building for the future only works if you add to the team. The window is 3-4 years to compete and then 5-6 to rebuild. There has been 1 mini dynasty over the past 20 years. Braves window is now. And this team didn’t do nearly enough. They are 20/30 right now in team payroll. 6 of the 10 teams behind them are in a complete and total rebuild. They should sell or move the team of the only baseball team for 500 miles in any direction can’t have a league average annual payroll.
Harper at 26 years old, no. Harper at 34-35? Yeah I doubt he’s going to be worth that money then. Fun fact, he’ll still be owed more than the entire Melvin Upton contract at that point.
So to sum up what you are saying…you want the Braves to go all in now and then you could care less if they suck 3-4 years from now?
Cost of doing business. They outplay the deal at the beginning, underplay at the end, and the team all the while drastically underpays pre-arb and arb players.
Harper’s 2018 WAR is less than Kakes’ – how do you think Harper is an upgrade when you’re talking about handicapping the future team to a cinderblock of a contract that would be 4.5x higher than the highest free agent contract in franchise history?
I really don’t understand why people are pushing so much for Harper when he was signed to a stupid amount of money coming off a 1.3 WAR season. Yes, he’s a former MVP, but we just signed a former MVP (Donaldson) to a 1-year deal (at a lower AAV) than PHI signed Harper for for 13 years.
Why is RF a glaring hole because the guy playing last year was batting in a spot in the line up his skill set didn’t match ? Oh & by the way doing it in a contract year and not once complaining about it & playing everyday.
Markakis will be fine as long as fans don’t but ungodly expectations on him. He is not a cleanup hitter or a 5 hole either for that matter but if they slide him in the 6 hole he will be extremely productive.
Boom! Someones baseball and business IQ is spot on. @nutbunnies that is.
Thank God they had enough sense to stay away from Harper. Too much hype and money for the player they would get at the end of the deal.
We have a couple of glaring holes in starting pitching with inconsistent unproven young guys and a big hole in the closer spot. Maybe you’re content with being an average ball club year in and year out but bottom line is this roster could’ve been upgraded in a big way but ownership decided to be cheap once again. Braves haven’t really committed to winning since the late 90’s. Even early and mid 2000’s it was always with cheap option players that had a better than expected year. Ownership is absolute trash and if you don’t see it then I don’t know what to say
I always heard the Braves could shop on any aisle.. Apparently they lost their way to the supermarket. It is indeed infuriating.
So management has control to make moves, and one of their former superstars is on the market and they have a clear need, but they aren’t in on him? Something doesn’t add up. Much like Cleveland, they don’t deserve to win their division again. All because they decided to go cheap. The fans deserve better. Hey, at least they paid for their park though. Oh wait.
You really think Kimbrel is worth $20m+ a year? He’s been through a lot of innings outside of Atlanta, and speed doesn’t age well.
He had a major decline last year as well, yet you’re ok with throwing him $100,000,000 to close in Atlanta when it’s not a huge need?
Who said anything about that much money? And major decline? Really? Why not give him a large AAV deal on a shorter term that they can afford while Acuna and all the young pitchers will be on cheap deals? It’s ok to call them out for being cheap. They’ve had a terrible offseason and deserve to be passed by the teams that added in their division.
Yes, something is up. It’s called their GM doesn’t want to take a risk this soon in his tenure. Not to say he’s wrong, because I believe Atlanta will take a step back in 2019 and 2 steps forward in 2020. Braves fans pretending they have a real shot this year are out of their minds.
Also cannot believe Braves fans wanted Grandal. Is he a major upgrade over Flowers/Suzuki? No. OF was the position to address, not Catcher. Braves fans need to realize this is their 2016 Astros season, and 2020 is where they need to make their move.
You ppl act like he would accept that just because you said to offer it. It’s a negotiation both sides need to agree.
I swear, Braves fans drive me nuts. They hardly showed up to games at Turner Field, but suddenly 2 seasons into a new stadium, and Atlanta should be spending $200m a year on payroll.
Unbelievable.
Triggered much?
Certainly seems like it
Nobody’s saying spend money just to spend it (oldest cliche on this site this year!)
This ownership plain ol sucks and needs to go away and let someone else come in who at least has an inkling of competitiveness (other than greed) in their heart to win for the fans and city.
Nah, I think that’s what you’re saying. Can you tell me the last 10-year deal that was better for the team than the player? And would you really want to do that on players with such obvious red flags as Harper/Machado? Yes, they’re young and show a lot of potential, but they’re not great fits. If we were talking about Mookie Betts, Mike Trout, Nolan Arenado – I’d say, give them whatever they want. But we have talent that has a ceiling not far from where they’re at and 1000x cheaper. Why can’t we follow the Astros model and not the Red Sox/Dodgers?
When the Astros started winning they nearly doubled their payroll. I think we all would love for them to follow that model. Instead the payroll goes down. They are following in no ones footsteps. No team takes a step back after 5 years of rebuilding.
Who is to say they won’t? Because they didn’t do it much this 1 offseason with a shallow free agent market? HOU didn’t pay out stupid contracts – and any upgrades (Harper, Machado) would have been stupid money we have no business getting into right now. Let some of the prospects get some time then see where we’re at. I love people that want to spend just to spend. This free agent class was not worth all this bickering.
Weird, there’s that ole cliche “spend just to spend phrase AGAIN…” Get off that nonsense because I haven’t witnessed ANYBODY on this site this whole offseason pleading the front offseason to just blindly spend on nothing..
Who’s ever said anything about a “200 million dollar payroll “? How about matching last year’s payroll and then consider increasing some.
And I think you drive the rest of us nuts with your same old responses. No one wants them to spend just for the sake of spending, but no one wants them to sit on their hands, either. Replacing Sam Freeman, for example, is an easy and affordable upgrade.
Amen. Even if they don’t get kimbrel there were cheaper upgrades out there. Ryan madson, bud Norris, tony sipp, Sergio romo, Andrew miller, Zach britton, they could replace players like Sam freeman and Luke Jackson and still remain “flexible”
Not a 200 million dollar payroll. A league average payroll would be amazing. They are 18 million under that number now. This was a joke of an offseason.
AA, is that you?
you’re on every Braves post bashing all Braves fans and their posts…..who are you a fan of lol? It’ll be ok, just take deep breathes and count to 5. Or hell eat a snickers…I dunno but do something
You know..everyone ripping into Macks post about the money us Braves fans think the Braves should spend but what about his point that fan attendance is bad? Nothing but crickets.
The Braves had a brand new stadium with all the bells and whistles, put on the field a division winning team but yet the Braves had the 12th best attendance in MLB.
I think everyone bashes because he’s a constant naysayer to every single comment lol. At least thats all I ever see….Besides 12 out of 30 ain’t bad, better than half the league ha!
Out of all the playoff teams we had a better attendance than only Cleveland and Oakland and Oakland is a terrible stadium.
“A DIVISION winning team in a division that handed it over to the Braves last year..”
Again keyword:”division” equals some Braves fans thoughts of winning the WS..
Braves had no business even being in the postseason last year, it was wayyyy too predictable and embarrassing. When you have Anibal Sanchez starting in the postseason and praying and hoping Acuna carries the lineup because he has no fear or jitters like the greats do, good luck!
I dont agree with you but then thats besides the point Im making. If the Braves have a division winning year and thats the best attendance they can do then something is wrong.
‘if you build it they will come’ (ghost voice)… yes I just went field of dreams but it rings true. Remember the sea of Red foam tomahawks filling the stadium at Fulton or early Turner?!? Heck the only reason they were even 12th was partly because of the battery, be a contender and watch the waves come out. Atlanta is not full of die hard fans like Boston, Philly, Green Bay etc. because of all the transplants and that will never change
People forget they signed a former MVP in the off season? He is going to be highly motivated on a one year deal too.
As long as hes healthy, it’s been awhile..
Correct, and they still have $ 100 million left over for payroll based on $ 442 million in revenue
I like the move, but it comes with a rather tangible amount of risk. To think otherwise would be wrong. I hope he does well, but I don’t think it’s worth pretending it’s just automatically going to go great, either.
Donaldson will be as motivated as he was last year right? Injuries happen and hard to say if he is still the same guy he was several years ago.
Braves are in an interesting place. For all the “conplaints”, the new stadium and move really HAVE changed the financial outlook. Depending how you look at their revenue, they are clawing at the very top of mod-level to bottom of high revenue teams now.
I keep hearing more team-controlled development around the battery is coming. The question is, if income from their non-baseball pursuits around the stadium (apts, garages, mixed-use developments) will be used to support the team beyond what stadium/merchant revenue allows. If that is what some of that flexibility being mentioned contemplates, things are bright indeed.
However, if that added value is just sent to shareholders, same old same old may continue
Incredible. The Braves’ offseason is a F- from my position and I am a longtime season ticket holder. No more.
AA blew his wad on Josh Donaldson. If AA had another 25-30m in the coffer, signing JD makes a lot of sense – he is a clear upgrade to Johan Carmago at 3B when healthy. However it turned out either AA was wrong about the amount he had left to spend or unwisely allocated all of his capital – which mind you is still LESS than the 2018 payroll all in currently. If he knew he was capital constrained, he should have instead:
1) Signed Michael Brantley to the same deal (or slightly higher AAV to account for income tax differences between TX and GA)
2) Traded for Realmuto using Anderson and Riley. Anderson’s spin rates are well below average and I’m not convinced he makes up for his lack of spin with optimal tunneling and arm slot on his pitches. Riley is good – but I think his incredibly high K rate in the minors does not portend well to the majors. He’s a guess hitter through and through; when he guesses right, he’s as good as they come but when he’s off… We should have traded both for Realmuto knowing the Phillies would eventually sign Harper (and would have also prevented them from adding 4 WAR at the C position as well)
3) If you lost out on Brantley, we should have more aggressively targeted OF Mitch Haniger from the Mariners. Dipoto was wheeling and dealing with everyone but the Braves, and Haniger would have slotted in next to Acuna (and Pache) for the long term. In fact, Haniger should still be a target now. Markakis is a bench/role player at this point in his career, much like Adam Jones.
4) Dansby remains an issue. Perhaps we rushed him too fast but he’s not a top 5-10 SS. In an ideal world, Liberty would have said – go get one of Haniger or Brantley, went and gotten James Paxton *before* the Yankees got him (for a package of prospects we could have easily beaten, I might add), and sign SS Manny Machado. That would have been a world beater team right there and the Braves – no matter what McGuirk or Maffei say – could have easily done it and stayed UNDER the luxury tax threshold while doing so. Not to mention that team would have had a winning “arc” of 5-6 years – a long championship window – while still having one of the top farm systems in the game given our depth and restocking annually. It would not have been a short window given the young ages of the likes of Machado, Haniger, etc. (in addition to our young core of Acuna, Albies, Pache, etc.)
Just inexcusable. Other teams got a lot better and we stood pat (and may have regressed). What a farce. Maffei and McGuirk think the fans are stupid. They lost my money and I’m telling all of my business owner friends to drop the season ticket thing too. It’s insulting.
They have more than $ 100 million left to spend this year AFTER Donaldson.
Who exactly do you want them to sign ????
Brantley ??? Come on the guy is always hurt
Kimbrel ??? You really want to put that money into such a volatile position ?
Keuchel ??? Why clog up a spot in the rotation when these kids are suppose to be ready. 4-5 arms battling out for a spot. Maybe sign him if the coulda moved Julio but who was biting on him ?
Harper ??? Yeah looks great until Freddie has to re-up & Acuna, Albies, Folty, Camargo start looking for extensions.
The Braves arriving a year early got the fans spoiled. I got news for you they weren’t that good last year the division was that bad. No reason for them to mortgage the future they need to stay the course and let the young kids develop. In 2-3 yrs when Newcomb, Folty, Wright, Touki & Soroka are the most dominant rotation in mlb and Acuna is mentioned in the Harper/Machado conversations we all will be happy they didn’t jump the gun and fool themselves into thinking they were better than they were.
@Steelerbravenation
Where in my post did I ever say Kimbel, Keuchel, etc.? I want no part of either of them.
Brantley is “always hurt” but signing Josh Donaldson is the paragon of health? Really? For $8M more than Brantley when we had a 3 WAR 3B in Johan Carmago already on the roster but no corner LF?
I said sign Machado (young, healthy and a top SS bat), trade Swanson in a package for Haniger (young, healthy and corner LF with high WAR value), and trade for James Paxton. That would NOT have mortgaged the future as you claim (our core of Albies, Acuna and Pache would have remained in tact – at least Albies and Acuna) and we would have had a full position player core younger than 27.
The Braves foolishly invest in arms at the expense of position player prospects. Arms – like Folty has shown this week – can break easily.
Also- who said anything about re-upping Freeman? For the right cost, perhaps, but he’s in his peak performance curve now and 1B (like C) tend to fall off a cliff after 32-34. I’d rather replace Freeman with a younger 1B once his current deal ends which is still a ways off.
I would use free capital now to lock Acuna and Albies up to team friendly extensions (after 2019).
Newcomb will end up in the pen because of his poor control. I love Soroka, actually, but his shoulder is giving me pause which is the death knell for poiwer pitchers these days. You did not mention Gohara but he’s got some of the best stuff for a LHP – but he needs better conditioning.
We should have added young star talent to this core which would have allowed us to compete for 5-6 years. Instead we let others get better while we cry “the economics of baseball stink” while we pay down millions of real estate debt related to the Battery.
McGuirk thinks the fans are stupid – far from it. We’re watching and we’re extremely disappointed.
@steelerbravenation – Thank you! All these fans posting about them not signing anyone and yet not actually mentioning any names or arguments on why they should have signed them.
Brantley is the only one that I actually was a little saddened that we didn’t get, but he’s not that much better than Kakes – more injury-risk – and a whole lot more money.
@RunDMC – I put several names in my post, actually. I made suggestions of Brantley (or Haniger as a preference) for the corner OF spot, a suggested and workable (and realistic) trade for Realmuto at C, James Paxton for the rotation and Machado for SS. I made actual real world suggestions – all of which would have resulted in a team with a net core age below 27 (all peak performance arcs) and a budget that would have fallen well below MLB’s current payroll luxury tax ceiling.
I do not want Kimbel, Keuchel, etc. Kimbrel is a nice to have but not as our team is currently constructed. Keuchel is smoke and mirrors – he relies on one above average pitch and if that falls off, he’s toast.
In the pitching rotation, I would have kept a core of Wright, Pache (except for Haniger), Gohara and Soroka (in addition to Folty). I like Fried a lot, actually, but he needs to harness his 2 seamer better as he does not have sufficient spin on the 4 seamer to have rise. Position player wise our core would have been Acuna, Albies, Freeman (still peak), Machado, Realmuto and possibly Haniger. Anderson and Riley would have been trade bait for me. I do think Pache as the ability of being a premier CF in the MLB – if his bat adds any semblance of above average power, he’s an immediate top CF with his defense.
We could have kept the core and also positioned ourselves to be a 95 win team if we had made the right moves. Instead we’re fighting for 83-86 wins alongside the Nationals (90+ wins projected), Phillies and Mets all around us. We didn’t make the investments because we spent the available funds on the REAL ESTATE holdings of Liberty/Braves – instead of reinvesting in the team.
That’s inexcusable.
So we trade for Haniger, Realmuto, Paxton and get to keep Gohara/Soroka (what would SEA want with our top-rated SP who happens to also be from Canada?). Adding Machado means you’re giving up on Swanson, which would be a mistake at this point – while also getting less on defense up the middle. Getting Realmuto would have meant losing either Pache and/or Albies along with 2 SP prospects. Yes, we have a lot in the system – but what you’re talking about is gutting the system and having a rotation dependent mostly on Paxton/Folty still with little SP prospects for depth? And you haven’t upgraded the bullpen, while also put a lot of future dollars into Machado, which I can’t believe would be a great fit for that clubhouse.
Soroka wouldn’t have gone in a trade this offseason given his shoulder issues from last year – Gohara could have gone and for one of Paxton or Haniger I’d pack his bags for him. I said Anderson and Riley for Realmuto (giving reasons for including each – Anderson because his spin rates are low and Riley because his K rates are too high to translate to any consistency in the majors – when he’s hot he’s going to be the best hitter int he bigs for a week, but when he’s cold, he’ll K 4 times a night). And no- the Marlins asked for Riley and Anderson and we did not want to part with both – but we should have. They never asked for Anderson, Riley and 2 more SPs. Albies was never on the table this winter – that’s a pipe dream if they asked and they knew it. Look at the package they got for Realmuto – Riley Anderson and a relief arm in the lower minors would have done it.
Haniger’s centerpiece would have probably been Pache. I hate that, but I would have done that for Mitch Haniger because of his years left under team control and the fact that he’s already a premium corner OF *right now* whereas Pache needs one more year, at least, in the minors for his bat.
Yes I’d give up on Swanson – a middling 700-ish OPS SS in return for a .900 OPS SS with good defense and with 5+ years of peak performance left. I would have included Swanson in a package for Haniger or Paxton. Much like a shoulder injury is the death knell for a pitcher, a wrist injury (especially one that is acute and continuing) is the same for a hitter. Swanson has complained about his wrist for more than 1-2 years now. -and he still cannot lay off the slider after those 2 years in the bigs. Perhaps he breaks out and hits for a 750 ish OPS with decent defense but that isn’t near Machado’s level of contribution. Swanson is not a middle of the order hitter – not close.
We would not have gutted the system – hardly. We’d still have Waters, Wright, Fried, Touki, Contreras (to take over Reamuto in 2 years), Muller, Wilson, Tarnok, Jenista, Ynoa, Sobotka, Beck, etc. The list goes on and on – we’d still be in the top 10-15 of MLB teams AFTER those trades AND would have been below the luxury tax line AND would had the best NL East team bar none.
How can you argue against that unless you aren’t a Braves fan? We would have had the core in place to compete another 5-6 years on top of it – meaning 5-6 years of MORE drafts and finally international picks again once the Coppygate scandal bar comes off. The whole time we’d be competing in the playoffs just restocking.
It’s asinine to not have done more this winter. We could have done so and also locked up our young core to team friendly extensions as well (or tried to, at least). Instead we get Markakis – who is a great guy and good role player but not a starting corner OF for a team that just won the NL East title and is now competing against the revamped Nats, Mets and Phillies.
Hanigan wasn’t even available or else AA woulda got him. It was reported all offseason Pache could be had in the right deal. I would think Seattle would have wanted him but it woulda cost a whole helluva lot more than him & Gohora to get him.
I woulda liked Adam Jones and let Duvall go.
And as far as Donaldson goes he is there to have a great year and keep the spot warm for Riley. If they are out of it he gets moved at the deadline if not he is an important piece for the stretch run.
Anybody who says Donaldson signing was bad is just stupid.
As far as Newcomb goes anybody who knows anything about pitching knows it takes lefties longer to harness their control. He will be fine.
Are they paying you by the word?
@RunDMC- funny, considering you and others in this chain that are defending the Braves establishment for largely standing pat repeatedly claim that us naysayers are not providing concrete examples of what should have been done (and why). All I was doing was providing detailed rationale behind my suggested moves – exactly what you and your progeny desired.
@steeler- you may be right regarding Haniger but it’s Dipoto we are talking about. He trades like a 12 year old playing fantasy baseball. Did you think he would trade Cano and Diaz? Probably not but he did. Same with Segura (for crap I might add). Haniger would fit this team perfectly but if not him, then someone else on the bubble who is young and has upside – like NYY’s Clint Frazier. We didn’t do anything / that’s my issue. Donaldson is amazing when healthy – but we needed to add 1-2 more position players around him to make this offseason a success and maintain our competitive advantage and we failed to do so.
Pache would be the centerpiece for a deal for a 6-WAR player with 4 years of control??? Come back down to reality. That’s exactly why the deal never got done. You’d have to give an insane amount of prospects for Haniger to get Dipito interested – and in your scheming you don’t actually consider logical examples. You’re throwing out deals not based on reality.
I’m not a naysayer as much as I want to see our prospects play and see what we have in them before putting money on the books for future years.
Yes, he would be a centerpiece- when did I ever say he was the sole piece?
I am well aware of Haniger’s value. Using FV values of our prospects off of Fangraphs, an “overpay” for Haniger would have been one of Soroka or Wright, Anderson, Pache and one of Tristan Beck or Freddy Tarnok. Is he worth that? I would argue, yes he is. I am always willing to trade pitching prospects for a 5-6 WAR young position player with years of control left. TINSTAAP and all. The piece that would hurt the most would be Pache but I think so long as we hold on to one of Waters or Pache we would still be ok given the return.
I am giving you realistic scenarios that would have made our 2019 (and 2020, 2021, 2022 etc) teams better. I’m not a fanboy – I’m well aware of player valuation and advanced metrics.
You are the one blindly defending a FO that is insulting it’s fan base.
LOL – blindly defending a FO insulting a fan base? Love that you find it insulting that they didn’t contribute to the overpays in this free agent class or the complete a trade and you are insulted. Calm down and quit getting so emotional. They still have the money, they still have the prospects to make something happen. We’ve improved on the division-winning team. People thinking WSH/PHI are so much better are hilarious. Let’s see it translate to wins. Seriously.
I never said you said it was the sole piece – you said centerpiece, but I don’t think Pache + Soroka & Anderson and Beck would be enough. Sorry, you’re still acting like it would be. Let’s a competitive package, but not one that forces anyone’s hand.
It’s a realistic package. Who said it would force their hand? I wanted them to try to get Haniger- if they failed I provided a backup scenario with signing Brantley who was fairly affordable all things considered. Why not sign Brantley and Donaldson and call it a day and keep all of our prospects? Why didn’t we do that! Why were we too cheap to add an extra $3-5m to the Astros offer to make that offer more attractive to Brantley when most projections this offseason had him at 3/45?
That is the key point I am trying to make. Fine put aside the trades- we could have had Brantley and Donaldson. Or we could have had McCutchen and Donaldson. Or even a Pollack and Donaldson (although he was my last option of the 3). That’s realistic and within budget. Instead we piddled around and ended up with Markakis which to me is a failed offseason for the corner OF spot.
And those contracts were NOT overpays- the market for 1 WAR right now for a position player was $9m this winter (slightly less for a pitcher). Brantley and Cutch are reasonable bets to exceed 3 WAR in 2019 and 2020 assuming health (like Donaldson can be a 4 WAR player assuming health). Even Harper was not an overpay- go read the Fangraphs article which takes his FV values and projections. And hey- the Phillies recouped millions in jersey and season ticket sales in the day after he signed! Funny how that works.
Yes we still have all of the glorious prospects. I love our farm. I go to Rome, I watch the backfields at Disney. But what is the failure rate for most pitching prospects? Do you know? I can tell you a majority will not be successful at the majors- even the top arms. Just go through Baseball America’s or Baseball Prospectus’s too 30 lists for each organization (Braves included) and you’ll see can’t miss prospects like Bruce Chen, Kyle Davies, Mike Kelly, etc all gone by the wayside. Heck recently look at Gioloto of the Nats- he was compared to Verlander at one point. Folks flame out at the highest level and it happens all the time.
I’m taking emotion out of this. I think some of these kids are going to be stars, yes. But you have to take risks – especially when you are coming off a title season and when your competition is improving the way they did. If the FO truly believes standing pat outside of Donaldson was in the best interests of the org using data you and I am not privy to, then fine. But what I take issue with is their corporate spin about payroll flexibility when all they intend to do is pay down debt secured by the Battery instead of reinvesting in the 40 man roster. That’s what irks me- and I’m not alone.
I agree spending all that for Donaldson when Camargo was worth a further look probably wasn’t the best decision., especially if it limited who else they could be in on.
Does being a season ticket holder give you more authority? If thats the case then the Braves having the 12th best attendance in last years division winning season is more of an indictment.
1. I at least agree with you here. Michael is an injury risk but before 2016-17 he regularly put up more than 500 AB’s. He was willing to sign a 2 year deal which helps to mitigate the risk. I think the Braves undervalued him and should have been willing to push the AAV a little to beat out the Astros and any tax issues. For the shorter contract the higher AAV is tolerable.
2. To make that trade you realize the Marlins have to be willing right? You may be down on Anderson but mlb pipeline is not. Should take a moment and read the scouting report. It isnt that I think either Riley or Anderson are intouchable but I feel like you dont understand their value. Riley’s k’s are high and they do need to come down however a lot players are very successful with a high k rate. Additionally, the Marlins wanted a major league piece. They went from Acuna to Albies and finally to Camargo. Players already contributing at the major league level and especially at their rate is a deal killer. Even with Donaldson, Camargo is tremendously important to the Braves success. He provides depth because he can break so many different positions and you still get a quality bat in the line up.
3. Dipoto was wheeling and dealing but Haniger was not available. Sure, no player is REALLY unavailable but I dont think you understand just how expensive Haniger would be. You didnt even propose a package to get him. I guess you would give him a blank check? We dont know how much Haniger would actually cost but I would bet it would takw more than JTR. Miami was at least looking for a trade.
4. Why would Liberty tell the Braves to go get Haniger or anyone? Braves operations are determined by Mcguirk and AA. The relationship between the Braves and liberty media is extremely misunderstood. LM doesnt make a single red cent from the Braves until they sell them.
4B. Sure, the Braves could have easily beaten the Yankees offer. The Yankees could have beaten the Yankees offer. Paxtons upside is tremendous but so is his risk. Did the Yankees just nab an ace or did they throw away a top pitching talent for a starter that doesnt even pull off 120 innings. Either of these story lines could pan out. If you look at Paxtons injury history you see how much of an actual gamble he is.
In your scenario, the Braves trade for JTR, Paxton and maybe even Haniger. Congradulations, you just set the Braves farm to somewhere around 20th. Good looking team but the Braves CAN’T restock the farm the way you think. MLB leveled some very harsh international penalties on the Braves and so will be at a disadvantage to the rest if the major league clubs. You keep talking about Pache in the OF but getting those 2 or 3 guys probably means he’s traded. This team youve desinged would probably be pretty good for a while but seeing as we have mostly pitching talent or our farm, we obviously traded it away to get the above players so where the next ace comes from is suspect.
Look above at all of my posts. If we couldn’t have traded for Haniger, that’s fine- we could have signed Brantley or Cutch. My issue is not adding a second middle of the order type bar to Donaldson. The Phillies added Segura, Realmuto and Harper. That’s AA’s failure- he did not do enough. I’m all for Donaldson but not if the rest of the budget vanishes after.
And I’m a fan of Carmago and yes a utility type is very good around the diamond for a competitive team for depth. But if Liberty is serious why not sign a Marwin Gonzalez if you had to trade Carmago for Realmuto? Pedro Florimon is capable of the same role as is Culberson to a lesser degree.
I agree with you about Brantley. I see that as a failing on the Braves side. I rebutted your view on JTR. He was to expensive for what they wanted.
I see the package you propose for Haniger but what gives you the idea that those would have worked? I would propose that they didnt work.
I THINK you said that asking for Albies wouldnt have worked but as though they wouldnt have BECAUSE it wouldn’t work. But they did indeed ask for him and later and last Camargo. Camargo and Riley is to expensive. The package you suggested doesnt get the job done. Morosi reported that the Marlins asked for Camargo and it makes since. The Marlins were looking for a thirdbasemen.
The packages you presented werent enough to get the players you incriminate AA for.
@salarycapmyth- ok but as I said above, put aside the proposed trades then. Why not sign Brantley and Grandal to the deals they did in addition to Donaldson and go to war with all of the prospects in hand? We could have done just that and still been within a reasonable budget (or even just Brantley). There’s no excuse for missing out on him, Cutch, etc or Grandal, Ramos, etc
Actually they should be spending $ 221 million on payroll based on revenue of $ 442 million. Simple math with many Braves fans who want the cheapo show to continue seem to struggle with. Harper, Machado and Kimbrel plus $ 30 million to spare.
sports.yahoo.com/braves-rolling-money-aren-t-16054…
So we go from our largest FA contract ever (BJ Upton: $75.25MM) to spending roughly 10.5x that on their combined deals??? Are you reading the “The Art of the Deal”?
Anyone giving Kimbrel his asking price of 4-6 year deal is insane – and I love the guy, but investing $80-100MM in 60 IP/season is like paying the best placekicker in the league record money (Cody Parkey, step on up).
Granted there is a fine line between judicious and cheap, but Liberty Media crossed that line while strangling their checkbook.. Why don’t they just confess that they are done spending on FA and admit the team you see on the field is the team you’re going to get.
Liberty Media: We told Terry McGuirk they could spend
Alex Anthopoulos: Terry McGuirk told me we couldn’t spend
Please link to where AA has ever said that. AA has said multiple times that we could spend on any free agent in the market. But he’s also not going to handicap the future with a risky contract. There’s a lot of risky contracts out there. And the fact that Kimbrel isn’t signed yet means that he’s gambling on someone paying him to take on the risk of a 4-6 year deal.
Sometimes you have to take a calculated risk/gamble to get where you wana go and you can’t compare every gamble to bj Upton or you’re going to live the rest of your life a scared little puppy.
We’re tired of supporting the scared little puppy that’s just sitting on his haunches, it’s time to get back up and get creative with what you have to work with! Plus it’s the offseason and we’re all dealing with regular season withdrawal as well..
You lost me, man. Scared little puppy and they won the NL East. Frankly, this free agent class was a big disappointment and everyone is clamoring that we let some good contracts get away. Besides Grandal, I don’t really think we let that many deals get away. And I do think AA has been at the forefront of every trade that would improve the team, but like was said in a recent MLBTR Chat, it’s possible that many opposing teams had a higher price for the Braves knowing they had a rich farm (which doesn’t surprise me based on what the ask was for Realmuto and what he ended up going to NL East-rivals, PHI, for.
Exactly and you can say Grandal was lost opportunity but Contreras is not far off. So do you want to block him long term ?
Definitely not. I know ST is only ST, but some of these young guys are really impressing including: Contreras, A-Jackson, Pache (!!!), Bryse Wilson with his 1.47 ERA. I really think they feel like the ceiling of some of these guys are similar to what you’re paying top dollar for, and some of them could come on strong sooner than expected (not unlike Bryse Wilson in his cup of coffee in 2018), that they don’t want to spend just yet.
“He also called it “unfortunate” that the club plays in a division embroiled in a winter-long “arms race” — a state of affairs that arguably supports more aggressive acquisition efforts from the reigning National League East champions.”
It’s so unfortunate we’re in a division with other teams that also want to win and are actually willing to spend whatever it takes to do so.
That stuck out to me like a 10 foot nails as well and just sounds like a big fat EXCUSE! Cry me a river.. Suck it up buttercup and do something about it.
Exactly. Poor us, why couldn’t we be in the AL Central with a bunch of tankers so we would have tons of cover for not spending. Now everyone is looking at us & it’s embarrassing! Boo hoo.
I’m sorry but itsnot clear the other teams in that division are really that good. Yes the Nats signed Corbin but they let Harper walk.The Mets still have a modest salary considering they are from NY and they basically mortgaged there future in the Cano deal to reduce there spending now giving them room to spend on some short term contracts. They could have a slew of injuries considering there pickups are mostly of the older player type and Thor is already an injury risk.The Phillies are the only team in the division doing serious spending and when you consider none of these teams won more then 82 games last year the Braves should consider themselves pretty lucky.My main question is why a team with obvious weakness in there bullpen would blow 23 million on Josh Donaldson instead of spending it on two relievers like maybe Britton or Ottavino or Robertson.If they had the Braves would be looking real good
Summay: Yes, Liberty is making boatloads on the SunTrust Park development. No, we’re not going to spend any of it on the Braves. That is all.
There should have been government oversight requiring the Braves to make an effort on there roster considering they have had a stadium handed to them
Apparently, a lot of owners are reading from the same book instructing them on how to maximize profits while maintaining public relations.
Step 1) Restrict the front office from being competitive in the free agency market to keep costs minimal.
Step 2) Direct the front office to cover the owners’ butts by talking to free agents in non-serious negotiations and make sure the front office publicly says how there is “room for the right player to improve the team, but theyr’e focused on maintaining their core”
Step 3) In public interviews, the owner states the front office absolutely has the go-ahead to spend (but neglects to say the right situation is when hell freezes over…)
The lies work because establishing an inexpensive young core and building on that core is a legitimate process by which teams rebuild; however, teams like the Braves already have the core and now is the time to spend. There are a lot of teams with significant payroll capacity who aren’t interested in fielding competitive teams. The league average payroll has tanked $20M this year.
It’s an underhanded, greedy process we’re watching right now that endangers baseball’s future.
We’ll complain/defend/argue until we’re blue in the face, but come opening day, we’ll either be in the stands or tuning in. I can admit that. We are baseball fans. The business side of baseball is ugly, but it will never ruin the beauty of the game.
No. Only to commis and these pace of play initiatives can do that…
It’s pitiful that a team is owned by a behemoth conglomerate that considers it one of its divisions, maybe not even in the top 10. At least we knew who Ted Turner was.
You know, it’d be nice if EVERY pro sports team had the ownership structure of the green bay packers. Unfortunately, I think we’re closer to having more liberty medias than we are green bays.
Everybody saying the Braves need to bring in a clean up hitter needs to be saying the Braves are paying Donaldson $23 mil this year he doesn’t get that kind of money and pick where he hits too. Hell with more at bats for the better hitters put the 3-4-5 hitters where they go, let them drive in some runs and have Albies, Inciarte, Swanson focus on improving their on base abilities surely 2 of the 3 can make strides and improve. This lineup is a hell of a lot deeper with Inciarte Albies or Swanson at 1-2. Albies doesn’t have to hit for power now as bad as he needs to work on getting on base and use his speed ahead of the big bats. Needs to refine his approach and we will be set. Same goes for Inciarte and Swanson. We don’t need all 3 to be above average with the bat because all of them are great defenders. But if two of those three can bounce back enough to get get on base at an above average clip, then Donaldson should not hit in the 2 hole. Might have worked for the Jay’s but they also had Bautista in his prime, Encarnacion in his prime, Russell Martin, Justin Smoak and Tulo when healthy. We don’t have that. Put JD 4 and Acuna 5 or vice versa. I known everybody likes Freeman 3 but I would like to see
3. Acuna
4. Freeman
5. Donaldson.
I would also love to to see Swanson be the one to bounce back with Albies.
1. Albies
2. Swanson
3. Acuna
4. Freeman
5. Donaldson
6. McCann
7. Markakis
8. Inciarte
Have Swanson, Inciarte, and Albies really work on their approach to be more so on base threats less big swingers and this lineup needs nothing else until JD leaves next year. Then we have to hope Riley isn’t bust.
As for pitching let the young arms develop and see what we have. We have so many top of the rotation potential arms that are MLB ready. Why block them? We weren’t even supposed to contend until this year. If we were on schedule we would be coming off a 75-80 win year, and signing Donaldson and McCann would be a heck of an off-season for us compared to selling the past 4 or more years. We do need a closer though. Whether it’s Kimbrel or making a trade. Our bullpen has no upside outside of Minter and hes hurt. Bring in an established closer to mentor Minter and we’ll be set.
I believe that AA is a baseball fan as well as a businessman. I still believe he will do what is best. This other guys sounds like your basic business person who is very happy to use his position to make money for himself and his corporation