July 19: The Phillies have also shown some level of interest in Blue Jays righty Marcus Stroman, tweets Jon Morosi of MLB.com. Given that Stroman is eminently available and arguably the most likely pitcher in baseball to be traded in the next two weeks, it’d be a surprise if Philadelphia (or any other team eyeing rotation upgrades) hadn’t reached out to Toronto to express interest.
July 18: It’s already been a busy day on the Phillies rumor mill, as we’ve heard reports connecting the team to such names as the Rangers’ Mike Minor, newly-minted free agent Drew Smyly, and (before he was dealt to the Red Sox) Andrew Cashner. Since pitching is such a priority for the arm-needy Phils, it’s no surprise that they’ve cast a wide eye across the pitching market, as NBC Sports Philadelphia’s Jim Salisbury reports that the Phillies have also had talks about Giants southpaw Madison Bumgarner, Tigers lefty Matt Boyd, and Diamondbacks right-hander Zack Greinke.
The Phils also looked into Homer Bailey before the Royals dealt Bailey to the Athletics last weekend, indicating that Philadelphia is looking at all ends of the pitching market. As Salisbury notes, the Phillies aren’t keen on giving up several top prospects to land a top starter, as rival teams are still putting high price tags on their best trade chips.
Lower-level targets like Cashner, Bailey, and Smyly are therefore also being explored to help stabilize at least the back of the Phillies’ rotation. Of course, the Phillies are arguably in need of multiple arms already, and that need will only become more severe if Jake Arrieta ends up requiring season-ending surgery. Trading for two top-of-the-market starters is almost surely too steep a price for the Phillies, so a tactic of acquiring just one of those top-flight arms and then signing a pitcher like Smyly could be a more viable strategy if Philadelphia does intend to pick up more than one starter.
Recent comments from team president Andy MacPhail suggest that the Phillies aren’t going to give up top prospects for a rental player (if at all), and perhaps could be more inclined to pursue trades that would see the team take on salary rather than move much in the way of notable minor league talent. This stance would seem to make it less likely that the Phillies make a strong push for Bumgarner (a free agent after the season) or Boyd, who will be relatively cost-controlled through three arbitration-eligible seasons but is only available for a team that meets the Tigers’ heavy asking price.
This leaves Greinke as a potentially very intriguing candidate, as the Diamondbacks are likelier to accept a lower-level prospect package just for the sake of getting the righty’s salary off the books. While Greinke has largely been excellent over his tenure in Arizona, his contract takes up such a big percentage of the team’s payroll that it has left the semi-rebuilding D’Backs somewhat hamstrung in terms of financial flexibility. Greinke is owed roughly $83.1MM in salary and signing bonus allotments until the end of the 2021 season — to put it in perspective, Greinke alone accounted for almost 28 percent of the Diamondbacks’ player payroll in 2019.
Trading for Greinke would probably put the Phillies over the $206MM luxury tax threshold, as Roster Resource currently projects their number as $196.36MM. The Phils could try to move some other salaries to carve out some extra payroll space, or perhaps just accept going over the tax limit as the cost of doing business for a run at the postseason.
Then again, this could all be a moot point since Greinke said in February that he didn’t want to be dealt anywhere, and the Phillies are one of the 15 teams on his no-trade list. While it’s possible Greinke’s feelings have changed in recent months, it could take some further negotiating to get Greinke into the fold, perhaps so much so that the Phillies could prefer to just move onto another trade target.
options abound. i have faith Klentak can get at least one, if not two starters. Greinke is still the guy to get, and if the Reds arent selling, maybe another Roark type.
Greinke is the guy to get … except for the fact Philadelphia is on his no trade list and hes already owed a ton … hed probably want another 30 million dollar year added on …
yeah the no trade is hurdle, but if they extend Realmuto i think it helps. I cant imagne he would hate throwing to him.
The no trade is typically a strategic choice to boost value. That said, I have zero faith in Andy “If we dont we dont” Mcphail
Greinke’s psyche is frail enough; the Boo-birds would fracture is fragile egg shell mind. I just don’t see it…
Well, that’s distasteful.
i dont get this. does no other city’s fans criticise their highly paid athletes when they are heavily underperforming? either way, he’ll he the savior of the staff don’t think anyone could take that for granted at this point.
There’s legitimate question as to wether he’s waive his clause. He didn’t choose those teams for leverage or winning the way most do. The guy has a well documented anxiety disorder. Based on the clubs he’s chosen before, it doesn’t seem like he wants all of the noise that comes with a big market.
He did just fine in LA which last I checked is a rather large market.
It’s about leverage for negotiation if he’s traded, he picks the teams that are most likely to trade for him because they’re contending/big payroll teams, rather than large market noise.
In numbers sure. But it’s Southern California, not the North east. Night and day doesn’t begin to describe the difference. Might as well be different planets.
Especially with all the media noise that comes with Harper. I don’t see Greinke wanting to deal with the East Coast media.
A small bit of trivia… Los Angeles is spanish for whale’s vagina. – Ron Burgundy
Oh wait, that’s San Diego… my bad.
Another hurdle is the stadium. Greinke probably doesn’t want to pitch in the bandbox that is CBP. That being said, I hope they get him.
It won’t help lmao. all that money spent and 3rd place
Who else do you trust?
So… Matt Boyd is not good. None of his stats lead me to think, oh he’d be good on the right team. Being controllable does not equate to being good. Phillies have tons of trash pitchers that are controllable – ALL available via trade except Nola obv.
Minor is having his best year at age 31. Why are you giving up anything for… let’s call him a 3rd starter at best, basically a 4th starter though.
If you’re going to target someone, target Stroman or Sonny Gray even. Groundball pitchers with good numbers.
Minor would be Phillys 2nd best starter for this year and next so I’m not so sure Philly fans are able to be so nitpicking on good SPs
Boyd matching Bauer pitch for pitch much of the game. Not bad considering the Indian lineup is much better than the Tigers. Until the strike zone is squeezed for him in the 6th and he has to just throw it down the middle. Two run jack. If he were on the Yankee staff, the manager would have been out of the dugout complaining… it’s the Tigers, so just take it.
Boyd gave up 5 ER to Cleveland tonight in 6 IP again, and the Indians offense really hasn’t been very good. Boyd’s trade value is evaporating as we speak, look at the numbers since the start of June
Man I told you Boyd isn’t that great when y’all gonna start listening. 4.13 era next start 4.25 then 4.40 next thing you know he’s trying his hardest to keep away from that scary 5.00 area.
Pickle with his expert scouting. Anyone can say someone isn’t good. Verlander is giving up a crapload of HR too. Start crapping on him while you’re at it.
The Indians offense has been very good in July. They will soon overtake the Twins in the AL Central.
But Verlander is getting the job done. You can’t compare Boyd to Verlander, there not remotely on the same level. Lol please think before you post please. Thanks fella
“Lol please think before you post please.”
Pot, meet kettle.
Metchez… he was squeezed his last 2 outings and it has cost him. I think the slider fools some of those umpires.
Even the Indians announcers were questioning some of the calls. Boyd was forced to just lay it down the middle. Nothing he could do.
If he were on a playoff team, he’d get better calls. Heck, Castro was called out on a check swing that was no where near a swing.
That’s okay. Tigers got those calls during their unsuccessful run the last ten years. They are on the other end of it now.
yeah, im skeptical Boyd is all he is cracked up to be, but Minor’s been stellar again. id take Minor any day.
lol Matt Boyd is better than any starter on the Phillies . Plus it would take more than Bohm and Haseley to land him.
Boyd has not pitched well probably due to the fact he thinks he has to throw perfect since the Tigers can’t score runs to save their lives. Its easy to pitch when u actually have a team that can actually score runs.
Why do you continue to come up with excuses why Boyd isn’t getting the job done and getting shelled? I know your a Tigers fan and love your players, I get that but, let’s get realistic here man.
Come on Pickles
Lol please think before you post please. Thanks fella
More than Bohm and Haseley? More like neither. Boyd is a bat hitter. You can’t be serious. Bohm is going nowhere.
Phillies have 1 starting pitcher, thats it. Who do u think u are going to get without giving up prospects. Should just stand pat because if you dont give up high quality prospects you are going no where.
yeah he is a bat hitter, lmao, he has more swings and misses then 95% in the league. Check your stats before making comments, thanks!!
I wouldn’t give up one of the best young 3rd basemen for Boyd. Lol. Pound sand bruh
Aaron Nola is better than Boyd by a long shot. And that’s probably a good estimate of what it would take to get him, although they’d probably prefer a lower level piece with a little more upside instead of Haseley
similar stats this season prior to tonight. I’d rather have Nola. ERA is 3.77 in national League equates to about a 1/2 run per game as well. So about a 4,2 ERA in the American League because the pitcher doesnt bat in the AL.
Yeah but it’s not just this season that counts lol. The last few years?
youre just wrong.
About Nola? Or the Tigers getting more? I don’t think the Tigers trade Boyd, because I don’t believe they get a top 50, maybe even 75 prospect for him, and if not they’re better off hanging onto him.
Agreed Ben. The haul they expect does not match the production Boyd is bringing unless baseball is measured in Ks and Walks. They are based on the fewest number of runs given up, and Boyd has been giving up runs in bunches the last 2 months.
Nola $35+ mil over the next 3 years.
Minor is by far a more polished and better pitcher than Boyd. Hands down
Pickles is a Tigers hater…. get a clue bud before u comment!! Next u will tell me Urias is better than Kershaw!!
Nah no tigers hater. Just don’t care for all this talk about Boyd being something special because he can get strikeouts. There is a lot more to pitching then getting ks.
And your crazy if you think Boyd is a better SP then Minor. Minor’s war this season is about what Boyd’s is for his career. Lol
When did Minor have a good season prior to this one??? Boyd has not pitched well lately but lets see who would??? They have nothing to play for, the Tigers can’t score 2 runs a game, lol. Hard to pitch with no run support.
Yeah but his velo has spiked and so has his prospect status. Most sites have him top 100 or very close now. Past performance is important but Howard has seen a change in the profile, which is significant.
Not a Phillies fan either
It don’t matter about run support when your era is creeping towards 5 lol
Minor? Hahahahaha ya just lost the ounce of credibility you had, kid. Go take a nap and quit taking up space on here.
I’d agree Minor is probably better right now, it’s close though. Durability and control on Boyd’s side. Zappa, are you a Tigers fan? Sorta looks like it the way you value Boyd… he’s not bringing a top 50 prospect in return, that ship, if it ever existed, has sailed.
Minor $9.8 mil this year… $9.8 mil next
Boyd $2.6 mil this year
So what? Teams do what they have to do to win. If they think Minor is better then they go after Minor.
For the record, Minor is better than Boyd on the basis that he hasn’t died pitching in Arlington.
Minor is also 31 years old
Minor is catching up to Boyd in home runs. Minor gave up 4 tonight.
Sonny would be just as bad I. Philadelphia as he was in ny
So much unrealistic talk about Boyd…He is neither a #2 with club control OR the bum so many want to cast him to be. He is realistically a 3-4 starter with club control that should bring back one top 100-125 prospect and possibly a young, serviceable corner outfielder. The Tigers are crazy not to deal him because they won’t be contending for another 4-5 years minimum. His haters out there are crazy to toss him onto the garbage heap as well. And extending Al Avila makes me feel sorry for the few major leaguers the Tigers actually have imprisoned.
Vargas for moniak. Vargas is no ace but the Phillies could definitely use him every 5th day
Vargas is at best a salary dump for the Mets and isn’t really better than the schmucks at the back end of the rotation Phillies or their minors. And certainly no prospect who’s ever had any value is getting traded for Vargas, even if Moniak kinda sucks.
Vargas $8 mil this year $8 mil next year
theyre not giving up moniak for what would be almost a full salery dump for NYM. as good as he’s been, im sure they’d rather save the money above all else, and the Phillies will take on enough to keep them from needing such an asset in return.
Lynn? Leake? Aaron Sanchez? Duffy if available? Felix Hernandez,Archer,Ray or so on if they come available.
SEA would have to include a big prospect to make any contender take him.
King Felix!!?? LOLLOLLOL!
It could be Prince Felix now.
Phillies have 1 legit top end prospect(Bohm) and maybe u can add Medina(who I really like) but years of poor drafts and trades means other contending teams will easily jump Phillies offers for top level SP
Spencer Howard is a legit top guy.
Howard is 23 with upside pitching in A+ ball. Hardly a top prospect material and he had injury issues this year. Don’t see that much value until he proves it at AA level.
Struck out 11.8 batters per 9 in 23 starts last season. Kid has legit top of the rotation stuff. Even coming back from injury recently, he’s struck out 52 in 34 innings
Some pitchers take more time to develop
You could be right and I’m not saying they compare outside of this but Kluber, when acquired was a 23 year old in high A if I remember correctly. That’s why they go by spin rate, velocity etc… and not age at level or even era, (although I believe in results aboveyself), just my two cents.
Morgan is right; have to get Spencer Howard to AAA to see if he really is legit. Good arms are expected to dominate at 23 years old in Single-A.
What poor trades are you referring to?
The Giles trade got us back 5 arms. Only one remains(VV) who stinks. Also again not saying Howard can’t be but he is 23 and pitching in A+ ball while missing time this year with injury. Other teams will legit be concerned about some flags. I don’t see him being a headliner for a top name
He doesn’t have to be. They have other prospects like Bohm, Medina, Haseley that can be centerpieces
I don’t care about the Ken Giles trade. They were in rebuilding team that didn’t need a closer. What they got in return is what they got back.
The problem with Vince is the team needs to decide what he is. He’s clearly a reliever at this point so use him as such. But they can’t because the rotation has been so poor
They aren’t trading Bohm. Also I should be considered. This front office can’t find a Good SP with a compass. The drafts are bad, and the trades have been bad. Which leads to zero depth in the minors. Now guys are hurt and u calling up BUMS like Rios and Davis
As a Phillies fan I want stroman. This year is a wash.
Stroman costs too much if you dont want to contend thks year. he could easily have another off year next year. too risky.
getting more ticked by the day about the Cashner. no reason they couldn’t offer more cash than BOS.
If Grienke is willing to wave his no trade clause than he just might be Philidelphia’s best hope.
Even if they get passed the no trade clause there’s another couple problems. Just what are the Diamondbacks doing anyway? They obviously didnt decide to rebuild so how interested are they in trading Grienke? Also, if they are interested in a trade, would they prefer to use most of Grienke’s value in salary relief or do they want talent? If the second is their preference then you know Bohm is off the table. Could they work out a deal around Medina?
See, if I were a Phillies fan I dont know that even THAT sounds so appealing. I think we’re all just waiting for Grienke’s production to do a swan dive off the grand canyon.
Greinke’s contract is a lot like Harper’s in that manner. last year or so will be near a wash probably, but you hope the first few years are worth it. as time passes, a larger percentage of the money will go to those washout years, and therefore more Zona will want to move. it depends on if they feel like they have a real chance within the next 2.5 years. (likely the longest length the contract will be worthwhile for)
“last year or so will be a wash” lmao more like last 6-7 years.
So wait I got ripped on when I mentioned Grienke, cash and a low level prospect for Shaw and Thames. it turns out I was pretty close especially when I would have thrown in someone like Wilkerson too. Most people who know Grienke is he brings a lot more to the table. When he was traded from Milwaukee, he was very involved with scouting the young players he was traded for. Actually very baseball intelligent.
Based off of what? Tbh the trade concept is still a bad. The DBacks currently have 2 like pieces and adding Thames( a soon to be FA) and a 40 man fodder piece stills adds up to nothing. Grienke being owed 25M, because well AZ is going to basically be forced to pay the deferred portion, isn’t a crazy amount based on performance. Shaw has little to zero tv, Thames as a 1B has little to zero tv, and well Wilkerson, seriously?. The trade package proposed is still nowhere close and still terrible.
I work with a diehard Tigers fan and he believes Boyd top end to be average at best he said a 3 for 4 starter on a good team at best which is not bad.
Now saying that I’m a Indians fan who will be totally honest about my teams short comings by saying if they happen to sneak into the playoffs the way the current offense is construct they will get embarrassed by top teams like the Yankees, Dodgers and Houston much like happen last year.
One pitcher they don’t need to Target is BOYD. Stay away
Boyd is the most dominant pitcher on the market with three more years of control. Keep on bringing up ERA which can be dependent on team defense and bullpen not allowing left on runner(s) to score etc…but let’s look at the advanced metrics which are more telling like FIP and K/BB ratio etc.
I think Boyd has performed like a top15-20 SP in all of MLB this year and better BABIP luck and limit the HR a little and he will have a good rest of the year.
Mad Bum is still better, even though he is nowhere close to an ace anymore, but doesn’t have the team control. FIP is important but K/BB ratio is largely built into FIP and he’s not preventing runs. Stroman better too but less control.None of them are dominant though. None of them bring a big haul.
Madbum is better for sure. Minus a couple starts he’s pitched really well. And he’s up there for quality starts.
He can be the most dominant pitcher available but he isn’t. Robbie Ray also can be dominant but neither one is remotely consistent at this point. It’s not BABIP luck that is biting him. It’s the Homeruns. The K’s just don’t matter with this Hr issue. If he’s serving up 2 shots a game you can forget about it.
He’ll be a tiger until this offseason at the earliest. No one will meet the ask at this point. Too many red flags.
The main issue is homeruns allowed for sure but his BABIP is like .317 this year.
He has a 3.55FIP and a 3.36 xFIP. He has a 12K/9 and 1.8BB/9. Those are pretty dominating numbers. He would be a stud #3SP on a playoff rotation this year and years to come imo. October baseball homeruns are not going out like golf balls as well.
I can tell you right now that xFIP and FIP are going north after today’s start. 2 hrs given up are going to raise that. And Dustin you have to keep in mind that FIP is nothing but a calculation.
FIP = ((13*HR)+(3*(BB+HBP))-(2*K))/IP + constant
You aren’t giving up multiple top prospects for a maybe. I’ll roll the dice on Zack Wheeler for much less if I have to. Their FIP/xFIP numbers aren’t miles away from each other. There’s no way I’m giving Detroit 3 of my top prospects for the guy. The lack of walks and abundance K’s are what is driving that FIP number down. But Boyd Is an extreme flyball pitcher having a serious problem w long balls. Can’t pay top dollar for that. You just can’t.
For comparison sake how much worse is Zack Wheeler? Matt boyd’s
Wheeler has a fine K/walk rate also and doesn’t give up nearly as many nukes. In part because he does actually generate groundballs.
No way you’re paying that ask for Boyd. You have to win the playoff game today for those 3.5 years of control to really matter. Boyd’s a gigantic question mark with the hrs. There’s a point where the risk has to make sense and it just doesn’t right now. He’s not trending in the right direction w HRS. I’ll be floored if someone meets Detroit’s ask. If he gets moved at the deadline, I believe Detroit will have decreased their ask on him quite a bit. From their POV I understand why the ask is going to be high; I just don’t think another team can justify paying it at this stage.
Well thought out points! I understand that point of view on Boyd for sure.
Wheeler would be the cheaper option though if Wheeler had 3.5 years of control he would be very expensive to acquire as well imo.
where have you heard what they’re asking teams for?
Boyd will fit in with Philly they got the most over rated/over hyped hitter (Harper) he could be the most over rated/over hyped pitcher. Lol
If the Braves expect to win the East they better get a solid starter & closer. The Nats & Phils will make a run, still a long haul until the end of September. I’m a Brave fan but realistic about this staff.
These Modern Front Offices are not inclined to part with top prospects. For rentals. . . I read a while back that the off-season is more of a stomping ground for such movement. At least on a wide scale with many teams. Moving forward. The waiver claim change. Has changed the game.
To be determined. But so far I like it… Will make for an interesting off-season I hope. . .
Has anyone bothered to check out the living dead lined up behind Matthew Boyd? Check in on an actual Detroit broadcast instead of relying on his stat lines.
He’s a top athlete, has progressed steadily despite playing on a team built via some secret practical joke, and would benefit greatly from having more than zero major league teammates. He would be a 2-3 starter on any of a number of contenders.
Free Matthew Boyd.
Agreed. I’d rather face the Yankees and Red Sox 2-3 times each per season rather than the hitting machines of KC and the White Sox. Would also rather pitch in the AL East small parks than the spacious AL Central parks.
Free Matt Boyd. Be careful what you wish for.
No more Phillies rumors. Drew Smyly was the answer to the question:
What will the Phillies do before the deadline?
already traded for two other players, so i doubt it’s over yet.
Just another ‘dumpster dive”, the Phillies are known for. But, we need lefties. Dodgers did not fare well against Morgan, Alvarez and Suarez. If we are going to challenge the Dodgers we need lefties.
Phillies are done playing the Dodgers until next year.
Spencer and Medina for Stroman?
Two borderline top100 SP for a pitcher with a 3.7FIP and 1.27whip and you want more…??
I think that’s a fair and descent trade.
Yep. Want more. Don’t see Philly as a viable trade partner with Toronto.
Medina, Haseley, De Los Santos, JoJo Romero, Nicasio(to even out the money ) for Stroman and Giles.
This proposal is better. Would swap JoJo with Suarez. I understand the Nicasio idea.
I think the Phillies pitching targets should be the edges of the strike zone. Right about where gardner and boone start screaming at the umpire. That’s the spot.
I’m ready to pitch. Sounds like they’ll take anyone.
As a Phillies fan there is no pitcher I want more then stroman. Controllable years. Does not give up home runs and that is need for a team that’s on pace to set the all time record as well as that ballpark that is homer prone. He’s a gamer and wears emotions. He will fit in with Philly.
I agree Nolan. I believe he would be a good fit with Philly.
Stroman would be great in the NL East and I wouldn’t be shocked to see him hit over .200. Not even kidding.
I agree Stroman would be good anywhere and can hit some too:)
Stroman $7.4 mil. Free agent at the end of the year.
Wrong again. Stroman is not a free agent at the end of the year.
Arbitration… that annual salary just jumped up big time. $11 mil?
Well now you know he’s not a free agent at the end of the season, so that’s progress.
Stroman makes Matt Harvey money next year? Sounds good.
Blake Snell had a fantastic year last year… Signs a 5 year deal for $50 mil. This year he has numbers worse than Boyd’s. Last year numbers don’t help you this year or next year…
Most of the league has worst numbers then Boyd..
Have they looked at Tanner Roark currently with the Reds. Might come cheap. Currently has a 3.97 ERA. They also have some bullpen depth with a guy like Lorenson. A deal here could help both the starting situation,and, the bullpen! both have under 4.00 ERA’s.
Honestly as long as the prospect trio of Luis Garcia Rafael Marchan and Spencer Howard are still here after the deadline I won’t be mad no need to sell the farm