The Twins and Mets have had discussions surrounding Noah Syndergaard since the Mets have made the right-hander available, reports La Velle E. Neal III of the Minneapolis Star-Tribune. Minnesota has been linked to virtually every arm on the trade market — starter and reliever alike — so their inclusion in the Syndergaard bidding hardly comes as a shock. Nor is it surprising that Neal indicates that the Mets have focused in on top prospects Royce Lewis and Alex Kirilloff as potential headliners in a deal.
Lewis, 20, was the No. 1 overall draft pick in 2017, and the shortstop entered the season ranked as a consensus top 10 prospect in all of baseball. He’s scuffled a bit in his first exposure to Class-A Advanced, hitting .243/.295/.384 through 410 plate appearances. Lewis, though, is still rather young for the Florida State League and is still generally regarded as a premier prospect, even if there’s a bit more of a divide on his status at the moment. Baseball America dipped Lewis to No. 21 on its latest update of the game’s top 100 minor leaguers, while Lewis resides at No. 2 over on Fangraphs’ latest update.
Kirilloff, 21, also entered the season regarded as one of the game’s 20 best prospects. He hasn’t replicated last season’s dominant numbers between Class-A and Class-A Advanced, but the outfielder has turned in a .284/.351/.403 slash in 261 plate appearances against older, more experienced competition with Double-A Pensacola.
The Twins have reportedly been loath to part with either Lewis or Kirilloff — the same has been true of top pitching prospect Brusdar Graterol — although Syndergaard brings a different level of appeal to the table than most other arms known to be available. He’s controlled through the 2021 season (a year longer than Marcus Stroman or Mike Minor), has multiple dominant seasons on his resume (unlike Matthew Boyd), is still in arbitration as opposed to on a guaranteed contract (unlike Zack Greinke) and, despite a lackluster ERA on the season, offers some of the best raw stuff of any pitcher in baseball.
Syndergaard still averages 97.7 mph on his heater with a slider he can throw in the low 90s, and every club in baseball surely has its own ideas about how to restore his bottom-line results to their previous levels, which more closely aligned with his premium arsenal. The Twins, in particular, have added incentive to pursue controllable starters; each of Jake Odorizzi, Kyle Gibson and Michael Pineda are free agents this winter.
Can the Yankees get him? For Deivi Garcia, Clint Frazier, and Jonny Lasagna?
Nope
Mets don’t want to deal with their crosstown “rivals” but they should get them involved to force another team to pony up more. That said, I don’t see Thor worth what everyone is mentioning. He’s got top shelf ability but hasn’t recently shown it nor is his past enough of a resume to convince me he’s worth a de Grom type of return. Minnesota is not dealing their top two prospects for a pitcher with “ability”.
What about Betances, deivi Garcia and florial for Syndergaard
I might offer a package from the Rays. Inside the top #100 with Shane Baz (P), a young catcher in Ronaldo Hernandez (#78) and a almost ready excellent defensive CF’ER in Josh Lowe.. Jesus Sanchez in place of him if you want a guy probably ready sometime next season. Chances are some team will beat that offer though.once they begin coming in. The only two years of control will bring the asking price down, IMO.
Or maybe even add Urshela in the pot ,great bat ,excellent defense at third!! He’s expendable because we have DJ and Miggy
Add Andujar and the talking would start.
I would do that deal
Of course you would your a scrubby yankee fan
I hate the yankees… I dont like teams trying to buy a pennant every season. I just dont think the Twins will pony up prospects to get a high quality pitcher. All Yankee prospects are overrated. As of now they have 0 top 50 prospects..
not a yankees fan but c’mon man, that old tired crap of “buying a pennant” is ridiculous. And so is the “all yankee prospects are overrated’
That simply just isn’t true
Look at all the teams winning the WS.. look at their payroll. They all buy it to an extent. 90% of Yankee prospects are overrated. Yankee fans all think they have such great prospects which really cracks me up. They have no top 50 prospects. Florial their #1 rated prospect has struggled batting around .240 and striking out a ton.
Buying pennants? Lol you’re right. I guess all teams should just not pay top dollar for top talent and fight it out in October with less than steller teams. What an asinine comment
No, it wouldn’t, unless you consider the Mets saying the words goodbye to be the talking starting. Garcia, Frazier, Loaisiga, Abreu, and Garcia get the conversation started. Just because they rank high on the Yankees prospect list doesn’t mean they rank high on the overall list. The Yankees don’t have a single top 30 prospect right now so they will have to give up multiple top guys if they want to bring him on.
(not sure if this is sarcasm, so my apologies if it is)
Spoken like a true Mets fan. You want to fleece the Yankees just like the Yankees fans wants to fleece us.
Why would they want a pitcher who’s always injured? Frazier, Garcia, Estrada, and maybe abreu or Acevedo. The Mets could play estrada at SS if they want to experiment with Rosario as an of, and then move him to second when that experiment fails.
That’s cause the Yankees prospects have already blossomed into young stars in the mlb level. Andujar is way better than Thor alone. Mets brass are as usual idiots.
Do you honestly think Andujar is better than Thor? Aside from the major surgery he had this year, he’s only had season and is weak defensively. He’s destined for 1b or Dh where he will be lucky to be above average
Did you just say Anujar is WAY BETTER than Thor? Man, put the crackpipe down and step away from whatever device you are using. I have no dog in this first but you make yourself sound like a stereo typical Yankees homer. Better than Thor
It would not.
Why Andujar? We have McNiel for 3b. No reason to put a very weak defender there.
What about Urshela, great bat,hitting over 300 all season, young, excellent defender at third! Package that with say Betances, and Garcia and or Florial, I think that gets it done, a third baseman, reliever, starting pitcher and 5 tool center fielder!!
Again….the Mets have no use for another 3B. They are stuck with Cano at 2nd, so the Mets best 2B McNeil will be pushed to 3B or the OF….which is crowded as long as Nimmo comes back healthy. Given the Mets have gone on record multiple times that they want to get stronger up the middle, that means an outside CF will likely be brought in, which pushes Nimmo to a corner opposite of Conforto. That setup then can have Smith/Davis left for 4th OF duties. Ces would be OF #5 if he ever gets back on the field. Trying to jam Urshela or Frazier in makes no sense for the Mets.
Like I’ve been saying, the Yankees are very poor fit for the Mets. SD, LAD, HOU, and ATL are all faaaar better fits. I think MIN could fit too, but I’m not sure Lewis would be available, and even if he was…his swing is in flux and that is somewhat worrisome as the key piece coming back. He has too much talent to write off, so I expect him to adjust and be fine.
If that’s all it will take then the Twins will make a better offer with Jake Cave, Wilin Rosario and Ronald Torreyes. What the heck, Ian Kroll as the cherry on top.
I never realized Rosario was making a comeback with them lol
@ Melchez Dumb comment
if the yankees will give that package up then its a done deal.
Replace loaisiga with Florial and it would probably work
Did you really name Loasiga after a damn pasta dish……
and your acting like that’s never been done before?
If it was from any other team – it would already be a done deal- Mets can’t make this trade with the Yankees. They know Noah will help them immensely.
The Twins will get Noah.
They twins will not get Noah, they will not give up the prospects and pay his contract. The TWINS are cheap!!
Pay what contract?? He’s making 6 mill this year, He’s not under some huge contract….idk what you mean here?
The Yankees will rock Thor in a playoff game!!
Hahahahaha hahahahaha
I’ve heard that that is for sure one place they won’t trade to.
Ive heard the same thing, wish the rest of the league was like that
Why would they want a pitcher who’s always injured? Frazier, Garcia, Estrada, and maybe abreu or Acevedo. The Mets could play estrada at SS if they want to experiment with Rosario as an of, and then move him to second when that experiment fails.
Why do yankee fans continue to try and cram ill-fitting pieces and some spare parts to try and get high-end elite talent?
Frazier CLEARLY doesn’t fit what the Mets need. He is a sub-par defender, corner OF, who is producing at a replacement level.. COF are the cheapest and easiest holes to fill in a lineup. The Mets recently went on the record saying they need to improve their defense (particularly up the middle). They need a CF, not a 5th guy in an already clogged outfield if Conforto, Nimmo, McNeil, Smith, Ces if he ever plays again, etc.
Loisanga is an often injured (currently on the 60 day IL with a rotator cuff strain) prospects who in limited major league action has struggled. He has a 4.89ERA, 89 ERA+, and over 1.5 WHIP. He is not yet a failed prospect, but he sure is trending that way.
Deivi Garcia…promising piece. I’d gladly take him as part of a package, though I’d admit there is a lot of hype and he is still a ways away from sniffing the majors. The Mets are likely looking for guys closer to MLB-ready, which I assume based on multiple reports saying they want guys closer to the majors with a lot of control left.
The Mets need an elite CF, 1-2 young promising arms, and….maybe a lotto ticket type. It’s a big ask, which is why the only way they get it is with a bidding war. These spare part trades with a higher ceiling guy 3+ years away….literally the opposite of what they want.
Another clueless Mets fan.
They ignore the fact Noah has a 4.4 era and just talk about his “talent”
Hes got 2 years left of team control and these morons think they are getting 2 or 3 ready made up the middle players with 6 years of control each.
Not happening clowns.
Should of traded him last year, now you either get good prospects in A ball or limited but useful pieces in or close to the majors.
Again…look at Syndergaards’ full body of work. He is working on his 4th of 5 years of pitching at least 150IP per season. For all of the complaints about him being injury prone, he still pitches most of the time. The day of the 200IP elite arm workhorse are LOOONG gone, save for Scherzer, who is a first ballot HOF’er.
As for his 4.4ERA….he currently has a 4.33 ERA, but a 3.64 FIP. FIP is particularly important because the Mets’ defense is horrible and they are on track for blowing the most saves ever and having one of the worst team bullpens ever….and it isn’t close. ERA does not tell the story.
His career 3.21ERA, 2.85 FIP, and career 14.3 WAR are all numbers the Yankees WISHED they had in their rotation of back-end starters. The only guy who comes close to his numbers are Severino, who is currently on the 60 day IL and won’t be back until AT LEAST Sept.
If you want further proof, let’s look at playoff numbers because winning in the playoffs is what ultimately matters.
Severino: 5 series, 6 games pitched.
6.26ERA, 1.565 WHIP, 2HR/9, 8.2K/9,
Syndergaard: 4 series, 5 games pitched.
2.42ERA, 1.077WHIP, 0 HR/9, 12.5K/9.
It’s not even close! Severino has choked HARD in the playoffs and Syndergaard has pitched like a top 3-5 pitcher in the playoffs. Oh…and Severino is currently on the 60 day IL and there is zero proof that he will magically bounce back in the stretch run and playoffs. As it stands, the Yankees pitching is trash compared to the other top teams in LAD and HOU.
The Mets may be a trash organization with no hope of making the playoffs, but the Yankees will get curb-stomped by every other legit contenders’ pitching staff. Pitching wins in the playoffs.
As a lifelong Yankee fan, BartoloHRball’s post makes me sad because every word is true.
Yes n I I’ll buy the plane tickets
Problem with that deal is Mets need an OF who can play some defense. They are arguably the worst defensive team and Frazier doesn’t help that. Also Garcia has been outstanding but he’s what 5’9 180? The track record for SP’s that size isn’t long. Pedro, stroman and Lincecum are the only that come to mind. It’s also the reason they supposedly traded Kazmir
So why are the Mets seemingly so eager to dump Syndergaard and not just find a pitching coach to work with him (and the rest of the staff)? Is there something we’re not hearing about? Wheeler I understand since he’s free agency bound. It can’t be a coincidence that all the raw talent they have on the pitching staff went sour this year an it? Correct the coaching staff first and hopefully the staff follows. Giving up on a controllable superior arm for A ball prospects seems way too dicey even for Van Wagenen.
The Mets are dysfunctional from top to bottom. Changing pitching coaches is not going to suddenly make them a competent organization. They’d probably be smart to trade Syndergaard, and get at least a chance at some decent future players. But they’re likely to hold onto him, add some patchwork players in the offseason and think they’re going to contend next year…
And they won’t, and will do it again in 2020. Soon, they’ll watch Syndergaard leave for nothing. Might as well trade him now and get something
Mets have plenty of talent to contend. They need a new manager and a bit more starting and relief depth. Hire Girardi or someone, move Mickey to pitching coach, trade Dom for a couple of mid-grade pitchers, do the same with Wheeler if you can’t extend him, and there’s no reason they cannot contend for the WS next year. It’s baseball, it’s not that hard and they have a lot of talented players.
it all starts with getting rid of Brodie- Then Callaway- Giradi nor any other competent manager is going to want an agent telling them what to do with their lineup. How about this: Hire Buck Showalter as GM ( he built the Diamondbacks) and Giradi as Manager? I would love to see this combination working for us.
Isn’t the real problem ownership? I’m no Met expert but from the outside looking in, it sure looks like as long as the Wilpons are calling the shots, it’s gonna be like this.
true , but we can’t do much about the owners- I send the Mets emails almost weekly to dump Brodie
Where exactly is the talent to contend for a World Series? Other than DeGrom (who likely will be headed for a downward turn soon), and Alonso they really don’t have any players you build a championship around. They’re hamstrung by Cano’s contract, their overpays for relieves (in costs and prospects), and contracts for aging veterans.
However, the biggest issue plaguing the Mets is probably the thing that hurst more businesses than any other in the country…nepotism.
Talent to contend for the World Series?
Just when I think Mutt fans can’t get any dumber they remind me why they are the most clueless fan base on earth.
The team has a ton of holes and a weak minor league system.
They should of rebuilt 2 years ago but keep digging the hole deeper.
MLB talent has netted them th second worst record in the National League, minor leagues are in shambles but according to this clown they are World Series bound, lol
Just a hypothetical- but what if this 2019 version of Noah is who he is as a pitcher. If a team is still willing to give up a package for the Noah of past years, shouldn’t they take it?
The guy with one of the lowest % hard hit rate against in the league? I’d take that
And the results still aren’t there. Trending down in mostly every peripheral category.
I think that is on the Mets. His peripherals and advanced numbers are still there. He has a FIP lower than his actual ERA, so the Mets defense could be contributing to his higher ERA.
DeGrom has to use same defense behind him without the same issues though…so that doesnt seem true what your trying to imply. Noah is talented no doubt…but the last 3 years show peripherals that are for the most part are trending downward. New team is basically taking a flyer to right the ship. Reminds me of Matt Latos (one time big armed prospect who could never quite put it together.) Is Syndegaard worth a high cost in prospects? Mets of course think so…but thats a hard pass for me.
Matt Latos?! he wishes be had the talent Syndergard has
At one point he did or at least was projected to. Noah Syndergaard is definitely trending downward, and I think the Mets should trade him now before his value decreases.
The strikeouts aren’t there. The quality of pitches aren’t there. He’s shown flashes of it this season, but on the whole, it hasn’t been
The strikeouts aren’t there?
K/9:
2015: 10
2016: 10.7
2017: 10.1
2018: 9
2019: 9
Sure, they are down a bit, but he’s still getting a K per inning, which is fine.
K-BB% career:
2015: 22.4
2016: 23.5
2017: 25.0 (injured)
2018: 18.0
2019: 17.0
Down and down a lot from where they used to be
FIP/SIERA career:
2015: 3.25/2.95
2016: 2.29/2.95
2017: 1.31/2.74 (injured)
2018: 2.80/3.55
2019: 3.64/4.16
Wrong trend again the past 2 years. Still a good pitcher, but if this is who he is now, he isn’t worth the haul that a team will pay. The whole intrigue with Noah being traded is that a team will think they will be able to get more out of him than what he has been with the Mets
Look at K%, he was striking out close to 30% of batters earlier in his career, now it’s down to 23%, Good, but not elite. Lance Lynn has a higher number. Jack Flaherty has a higher number. Robbie Ray has a higher number
“lolmets” I’m sure plays a big part, but I also think there’s the reality that they won’t be able to sign him long-term, especially with deGrom’s contract already on the books, so they’re going to try and cash in now.
The last two words in your comment are why that won’t happen. I usually like to give and coach/GM three years before judging but it won’t take that long with VW, he’s horrible. I’m not a Mets fan either so this isn’t sour grapes, he just looks completely in over his head.
Noah must have said something to the Management that irked them after his last start (bad one).
syndergard only has 2 more years of control and probably will be in line for a big pay day. The Mets will trade him if the haul is huge, if not he stays. Wheeler has hit a bump but still makes sense to extend him at a friendly cost.
I would keep both, write this season off and see what the offseason brings.
that answer is simple – they are bad with Thor…but he can bring back pieces to make them better. This opportunity won’t come around again so they need to pounce on it. I target HOU and go Kyle Tucker+….he and Conforto can play the corners and stick Rosario in CF. They’ve got Gimenez on the horizon to play SS by middle of next season.
Can the Yanks get him for Deivi, Frazier, and Lasagna
If Garcia, Frazier and Lasagna were from another organization, that wouldn’t even be a starting point. Since they are in the Yankees organization, there is literally no chance in hell.
No. Torres would have to be included to even get the Mets to think about it
Yup. Torres and Garcia and Frazier, plus. That’s what a realistic trade offer looks like for Thor. not make-believe-ville scenarios.
Torres is untouchable. Your offer is laughable.
It’s not my offer. It’s the offer the Yankees would realistically have to make to get Thor.
And it’s not laughable.
Incorrect- Torres is an allstar 2b – plays 145-150 games a year- Noah is a very good pitcher plays in 36 games a year- I want Torres – But that isn’t a good deal even up for the Yankees- It should start Noan and ..for Torres.
it is laughable- you are completely devaluing Torres in this deal- And I am a Mets fan.
Actually it is laughable!
Torres for a 3rd starter Lol
well no he would immediately be the ace on the Yankees but it is laughable because the Met fan is devaluing a full time position player with all star pedigree.
It is laughable though, a guy under 25 who hits 290s, 20 HRs and is already in a category with Joe DiMaggio and Mickey Mantle for number of 20 HR seasons before the age of 25. Dealing him and a package of prospects for Syndergaard is laughable. You overrate Syndergaard in this Yankees deal by a lot.
Oh and he can play a really good SS too. makes him even more valuable. If the Mets could snag him for Noan even up I would jump on that.
How would you know?
I think his point is the Mets won’t trade Thor to the Yankees of all places unless you pay through the nose.
thats the cross town tax, nothing laughable about it. yanks wont give up torres which is why a trade would never happen
Age 25 you say…lets look at similar pitchers at age 25 using Bill James’ Similarly Score for Noah:
1. Sonny Gray
2. Roy Oswalt
3. Tim Lincicum
10th on the list is Blake Snell.
At Noah’s current age here are the closest comparisons by age 22, 23, 24, 25….
22. Gerrit Cole
23. Stephen Strasburg
24. David Palmer
25. Sonny Gray
He is not a 3. He is not a 2. He is an elite pitcher with career stats to back it up, who happens to be having a down year. Sure his FIP is 3.67 because the Mets suck at defense, but don’t let that change your narrative.
Kanersen…. just no. That proposal is ridiculously laughable. Stop it.
Lol, Torres straight up is way to much.
Do you even follow baseball? Who trades an all star middle infielder with 6 years of team control for a pitcher with 2 years of control? Add in the fact the pitcher is struggling.
Then you want Frazier AND the 20th ranked prospect in the sport on top of it?
Mets fans are as dumb as their GM, that’s why they are in this position.
Should of traded him last year, but the Mets were to busy thinking they were a playoff team, lol
Buddy somebody is going to shred you in an argument if you ever say a pitchers FIP is 3.67 because of bad defense ever again.
FIP stands for Fielding Independent Pitching. As in taking the fielding out of the pitching equation. His ERA, which does obviously involve fielding is 4.33.
Which kind of blows my mind and I wonder how many other people quote things like FIP and haven’t the slightest clue what exactly the calculation or theory behind it even is.
Also his comparison score through age 25 is Sonny Gray. How the hell does that help your argument that he is an elite pitcher? I’m just very curious why you would add that fact and think in anyway that would help your argument.
jbigz12 I worded that poorly and didn’t notice it until the editing time passed. I meant to say his 4.33ERA is not telling the whole story, thus citing his 3.67FIP and explaining the 4.33 is because of really bad defense, so the 3.67FIP is more representative of what he can control/contribute.
People forget that Sonny Gray in his early years was dominant. You could say the same thing about Tim Lincicum not being a favorable comparison because he fell apart in his later years…but during his prime he was an ace.
Torres has infinately more value then Thor. likelihood they will trade with eachother asside, the Mets would take that in a heartbeat, especialy given their seemingly strong desire to send him away.
Torres will be the best player in NY in a couple years.
“Can the Yanks get him for Deivi, Frazier, and Lasagna”
Wow, You’re willing to offer a 20 year old pitcher that walks a lot of batters, a 4th outfielder that can’t bump guys like Maybin and Tauchman… AND you’d throw in a 24 year old that has an era over 7 at AAA?
Man, that is such a good deal… I’m surprised the Angels aren’t offering Mike Trout for that future Hall of Fame trio… Did you let the Blue Jays know these guys were available? They would give you Stroman, Giles and Guerrero. In fact… the 1996 Yankees are calling and offering Pettite, Jeter and Williams for those three.
Deivi, Frazier and Lasagna? Good GOD MAN, you are mortgaging the Yankee future for what? 3 years of a guy with long hair?
This is a rough take.
Didn’t realize Noah was on par with Trout? What’s laughable is this, met fans even suggesting Torres as a starting point or even Frazier, Garcia, and Losiaga isn’t enough???? That’s more then enough plus too much to be honest for a pitcher whose always hurt, red alarms on that arm, a violent delivery, destined for the bullpen, and bad results this season! But yes he’s not 27yo yet so his value is one of the best young positional players in baseball. Laughable comments on here. This trade will never happen because Mets fans and anti Yankee everything fans value Noah as if he’s the next Nolan Ryan when it comes to a trade with the Yanks! Stop already. Watch him go to the twinkies for a package less then Devi, Clint, and Lasagna! Watch peeps.
always hurt, red alarms on his arm, violent delivery? wrong on all. his delivery couldnt be any smoother, reaches triple digits with ease. Garcia is the one destined for the bullpen, the guy is tiny and will breakdown . Frazier is a horrible outfielder who already rubbed his teamates the wrong way and Loisaga is another reliever masquerading as a starter. Keep your trash for another team
If anyone needs to stop it already is you. Stop being a homer and over valuing your prospects. 1st Fraizer is garbage and is a poor defender. He can’t even beat out Tauchman for playing time. Losiaga is an oft injured pitcher that is almost labeled as a bust. So no, the Mets won’t be trading for Fraizer who at Best is a 4th OFer and one that cant play D or help the Mets. Nor could a broke down Losiaga help the Mets this year or when in the next 2 years
His last name is LOAISIGA, not Lasagna
Who’s Lasagna?
Ok Frazier is not a 4th outfielder on most teams. The reason he is in the minors is to work on his defense. He would be far better than Dom Smith in the OF for the Mets. Garcia has huge upside- could be on par with Noah. Loiasga is a decent pitcher, I would say potentially a reliever- which we need. If this offer was from any other team it would probably be close to done, just some tinkering but the Mets would have to feel like they were fleecing the Yankees to do it with them.
frazier is just as bad as Dom in the outfield. Garcia is a reliever(a tiny one at that) Loaisaga is a reliever also and not a good one at that.
If those guys are so great, then stop trying to trade them. Seems like every trade idea is centered around these garbage players. Keep them if you think they are so great.
Clint Frazier would instantly be a top 3 player on the Mets the second they traded for him.
Wow. This must be trolling because not even a modicum of anything you have written has an even passing resemblance to an intelligent comment.
“Clint Frazier would instantly be a top 3 player on the Mets…”
1.. deGrom
2. Pete Alonso
3. Conforto
4. McNeil
5. Syndergaard
and the list would go on. Who in their right mind would trade any of those guys straight up for Clint Frazier’s below avg defense and replacement level batting? You can’t put lipstick on a pig and pretend it’s anything but a pig wearing lipstick.
Clint Frazier can’t even break into the OF for the Yankees and he’d be a bench guy (at best) playing the outfield for the Mets. THAT is one of the key pieces in a trade for a TOR pitcher?
Melchez… just stop man. You’re such a Yankee hater it’s hilarious. Clint Frazier, Deivi Garcia.. garbage??? Just stop it.
You tell ’em Murderers Row!
Florial’s numbers in Single-A have been off the charts fantastic.
Loaisiga has been the definition of durable during his short career.
Schmidt should be MLB ready when he’s 26.
Seigler’s no power and no hits performance has been nothing short of spectacular.
That talented and deep farm system the Yankees have is truly second to none!
lol Florial is hitting .230 at A rookie ball with 59 strike outs, k’s about once every 2.7 abs!! 6 SB’s in like 45 games??? He is a definite top prospect that is falling like a stone!!!
Do you ever make any intelligent comments or are you literally just stupid?
Deivi Garcia is 19 years old, nobody in baseball expects him to have the kind of control YOU apparently expect, and, because he is 19 years old, that means he has three – THREE – years to develop his peripherals before he ever has a chance to sniff even an invite to spring training. Nobody will know what he is until he’s 22, and the Mets – or any other organization – can oversee his development and develop him how they wish for those three years.
Frazier is only a fourth outfielder on the Yankees because their OF is absolutely loaded. He “can’t bump” Cameron Maybin because Cameron Maybin is currently on the DL and in the middle of a rehab assignment, making him a non-facor, and he “can’t bump” Mike Tauchman because Frazier’s attitude doesn’t line up with the Yankees’ ideology. He would be an everyday starter on ANY other team except MAYBE Boston, where he isn’t going, and he would easily be an upgrade over an OF option the Mets have not named Michael Conforto.
Maybe actually learn baseball and stop being stupid for the sake of starting arguments.
Frazier would not crack the MN starting lineup and likely not the Astros either.
Yankees had Frazier before they went out and got Tauchman and Maybin. Obviously the Yankees know Frazier isn’t as good as the AAAA garbage they picked up.
Garcia is the next
Garcia is a 19 year old that could become the next Pedro Martinez or Pedro Guataloupe.
He wouldnt crack most major league outfields… sounds like he has an attitude problem.
Melchez, again… stop it. You have legitimately no clue what you’re talking about. Clint Frazier wouldn’t crack most major league outfields???? HAHAHAHAHA… He’s 24 years old, and through 53 games in MLB this season, his stat line was .283/.330/.513/.843, OPS+ 121. 11 HR, 34 RBI and 11 doubles, in 53 games. So please tell me how he wouldn’t crack most major league outfields… I’ll wait. He’s a starting outfielder on 90% of teams, but keep drinking hour haterade and sounding like a know nothing clown on these boards. Good day.
Deivi is actually 20. Frazier would not sniff starting in the outfield in Boston. He would be in AAA with Boston just like he is with the Yankees. There are a lot of teams that Frazier would not start in their outfield. Brett Gardner just went on the IL why isn’t New York bringing the kid back up if they are so high on him. Are you really going to argue that a journeyman outfielder in Cameron Maybin is going to keep a young stud outfielder like Frazier down AAA cmon let’s get serious. Something is fishy in Yankee land with Frazier.
And plus Garcia and Loaisigas stats you’re taking from AAA, Loaisiga played 2 games in AAA, and is on the 60 day DL, it’s likely his rotator cuff was bothering him during those 2 games so the ERA has nothing to do with it, look at what he did in the majors and it’s actually pretty decent. You should be looking at Garcia’s AA stats because he as well has only played 2 games in AAA, he had 81ks in 10 starts. And only allowed 2 HRs in AA. Not to mention an ERA of 3 flat. And plus this was likely Frazier’s last option, if we have too many players and need to move Frazier back down next time he would likely be on waiver claim which the Yanks don’t want to do, if they want to send him to another team they want to get something for him. Plus look at all Frazier, Tauchman and Maybins stats in the majors this year, they all have played exceptionally well. Tauchman these last 15 games he’s hitting 405. Just because the Yankees have multiple players who are contributing doesn’t mean that Frazier is all of a sudden a bad player. They all have value.
Oh, injury prone too… love it.
Keep him. Hug him and squeeze him like you do with Bird and Wade and all the other garbage yankee fans try and peddle.
Yankees fans are the ones peddling garbage but the Yankees have the best record in baseball and the Mutts have a better record than the Marlins, lol.
Watching bitter Mutt fans delude themselves is hysterical.
any team would be good if their team paid out 200 million in payroll. It is not because of their prospects!!
if all prospects were regarded as compaired to their floor then we would have a lot of current studs traded before they made the majors. while many prospects dont become good major league players, there are enough that do.
Mets would insist on adding Bobby Bonillas contract if Florial isn’t included.
The Yankees can afford it
You all out of your minds. Frazier and Andujar are no longer prospects because they have proved that they can hit at the major league level. Andujar for all his issue would be the starting third baseman on the yankees if he was not hurt. They both have their issues (fielding and health) and may be better off in the AL because of the DH but this is the type of player the mets should be looking for. Someone who is major league ready and is can impact the team next year not someone who is three years away.
I don’t think this is enough to get a deal done and they would probably have to include a couple high ceiling minor minorleaguers (maybe florial).
The mets probably won’t deal with the yankees because they just like their fans think the yankees are rich so they can give up ervery one for Thor because Thor is the Greates pitcher of all time. But this is the type of deal the mets should be looking for.
What is probably going to happen is the the same as what happened with garret cole a couple years ago. The pirates asked the yankees for Andujar and Torres and got laughed out of town and then got fleeced by the astros.
So…Frazier has proven he can hit in the majors? Great. Can he play defense? Oh…same for Andujar. They are 2 third basemen, which the Mets have ZERO NEED FOR. They already have too many bad defense guys who can hit. Stop trying to cram flawed players at positions the Mets don’t need into deals.
First off frazier pays left.
Second did you even read my post. I did not say the mets should trade for them just that this is the type of player the mets should be looking for. Maybe you want some one with better defense or who plays a different position but you are not going to get multiple finished products from a contender. Why would any contender trade players that are helping them win?
You basically want torres or altuve for Thor. A finished product with an excellent bat and glove. No contender will trade that away.
The mets will have to take multiple high ceiling guys who have some problems and hope one or more of them figures it out. This is true regardless of what team you trade with.
@bartoloHRball
Also Anduar is a better hitter than everyone on the mets team besides alonso and mcneail. He hit 297 with 27 hr and the most doubles by a rookie ever. And you say the mets don’t need him?
What team would not sign up for that?
If he figures out his defense he would be the second best third baseman to Aeranodo.
You are paying Cano how much? he can’t play defense and can’t hit?
Typical Mutts fan trashing the guy who finished 2nd in the Roy voting yet he probably still thinks Rosario is going to be a great SS, lol.
They are hyper focused on any flaw the Yankees young players have while completely ignoring Thors flaws.
Last I checked the guys got 2 years left, an injury history and pitching to a 4.4 era in a pitchers park.
Look what the Sox got for sale, who was at the top of his game, no injury history and 3full years left on a set contract.
They didn’t get ONE guy who had proven MLB success, yet these morons think they are getting that and more, lol
I can’t wait till he finally gets traded for much less.
jsterr….Frazier plays left…fine. Let’s look at his LF defense compared to the Mets players:
Career UZR/150: (innings)
Frazier: -9.5 (396.1)
Conforto: 4.8 (2045)
McNeil: 3.0 (285)
Nimmo: 2.8 (731.)
Cespedes: 6.9 (4858)
Smith: -19.9 (303)…ouch.
Davis: -17.1 (231)…ouch.
Ok…to recap…Frazier’s defense in left field beats a converted 1B (-2.0 UZR/150 at 1B) and a utility player in Davis. It sucks compared to any other LF option.
Andujar is a solid hitter, absolutely. I’d love his bat in basically any lineup. What position in the field can he play for the Mets? “If he figures out his defense….” That has always been the issue. The mets in any given game already have 2-4+ guys playing out of position, why add to that?
As for Cano…Brodie made one of the worst trades in baseball history for Cano, so I have zero support of that over the hill PEDs cheat. I’ve been rooting since day 1 for him to get popped 2 more times so he is banned for life from MLB.
BartoloHRball.
It is one thing to say the mets don’t have a position for them another to say they have “ZERO NEED FOR” them. Their bats will play anywhere its just a question of if a team has a position for them and is willing to try and figure out their fielding.
My point was just that the mets should be looking for players who can make an impact next year.
If the mets don’t have a position for andujar or frazier fine but I think they would do well to try and get a close to major league ready player. No one is going to give the mets a finished product. Any prospect will have its flaws otherwise they would be in the major leagues but the closer they are to the majors the better the mets will be next year
If Andujar had no fielding issues he would be one of the best 3rd basemen in the league and then no way the mets would be getting him.
Agreed actually. The reason why Andujar is expendable is because his defense is atrocious, so his best position is DH. Unfortunately for the Yankees, the DH spot on most teams seems to rotate unless you have a Big Papi level guy who can/need to slot in for the season.
I hope we’re able to keep Kirilloff. I think Lewis, Graterol/Balazovic, Larnach, Alcala, and one other prospect should be enough to do it.
Not anywhere close.
Ace with 3 playoff runs of control?
Sale went for a package that included Moncada and Kopech, twin’s don’t have any prospects in the vicinity of that.
It will take all 3 of Lewis, Kiriloff and Graterol, probably Balazovic and Duran too. That’s the kind of package that would actually tempt the Mets to make a deal. Not these trade value calculator deals that fan’s somehow think they are going to pry Thor away with.
Drug test much?
I know, the precious prospects, what ever will fanbases do without them. I’m sure the twins will cry themselves to success on the sleeve of an arm that can crank 100mph and playoff success for them the next 3 years.
I disrespectfully disagree. Lewis and Kiriloff are premium talents. The package listed above would net dang near anyone in baseball. You are talking about 7 years of control. So you are trading away 35 years of control for a guy who has stuff but results have been inconsistent.
Perhaps the Twins, in your world, could throw in Jose Berrios, Jorge Polanco, Max Kepler, Johan Santana in his prime, Karl Anthony Towns, and Adrian Pederson pre-child beating scandal. The Twins will also throw in international slot values and the keys to Bernie Madoffs cell so the Wilpons could go get a few billion back from his hidden bank accounts.
Lewis and Kiriloff are no where in the realm of Moncada and Kopech (two top 5 prospects) in the deal for Sale.
People think that the Mets are trading Thor on the valuation of his results this year? The ONLY reason they will trade Thor is based on the valuation of his production prior to this year at full health. That’s the ONLY reason it makes sense to the Mets.
You either play ball and pay up on their terms or you pay less for 2nd tier starting pitchers like Stroman and Boyd. Fan bases think they will pay Stroman/Boyd prices for 3 playoff runs of Thor are in for a rude awakening.
Looking at the rankings at the time of the trade, it looks like Moncada was the top prospect on most lists but Kopech had some variance – between 20ish to 60ish.
Earlier, MLTR reported the Mets were looking for a top 30 prospects and a couple solid prospects to go with that.
You’re asking for a BIGGER haul than the white Sox got for Sale. Kopech wasn’t a top 5 overall prospect, ever. But you’re saying to “start to tempt” the mets, the Twins should offer their 1, 2, 3, 5, and 8 ranked prospects, the 1 and 2 of which are ranked OVERALL top 10 prospects in the game, and throw in a couple more that are in the top 100 AND another guy. (the supplemental pieces in the Sale never reached that level). And at the same time you are acting like Moncada was some sort of “can”t miss” while saying Buxton is a bust… even though WAR values them pretty equally.
exactly
I too think the Twins have to include Kepler, Buxton and Berrios along with their top 7 prospects for the Mets to consider trading Thor. Lol
I agree Kepler or Burton get included or if I’m Brodie I’m hanging up
The thing is though that Sale at the time of the trade was still a notably better and more accomplished pitcher than Syndergaard is now. Also, the Red Sox were getting three full years of control Sale, compared to a team getting 2-1/3 yrs for Thor. I don’t think a Sale-like trade package would be required to get Thor.
Thor’s results prior to this year is in the vicinity of Sale. That’s what the Mets are marketing him as and that’s what teams will have to pay up for him as if they do want a shot at him. Half a year is not important considering both will have 3 playoff runs of control. You may disagree that Thor’s production this year should have merit (and i’d agree with you), but the Mets will set his price. In a year where Stroman and Boyd is the best available alternatives, there’s a huge gap between Thor and Stroman/ Boyd and there will be a huge gap in the quality of the returns from Thor and these 2 pitchers as well.
Again, people think they are going to get Thor for a Stroman/Boyd package are in for a rude awakening. Detroit is trying to get Torres for Boyd alone, lol. (Not that it’s a reasonable request by the Detroit front office but fanbase offers for Thor are even more so unreasonable)
Thor is not where close to sale as far as production. When Sale was traded he had (1) season as a starter where the threw less than 190 innings. (5 year span). Noah in that time span has only thrown more than 190 innings exactly 0 times. While the talent might be there, his health is not. You aren’t getting get someone’s far system for a guy who can only average 21 starts a year. That puts a huge dent in what he is going bring back in a trade.
I’m not the Mets. I’m not even a Mets fan. Please refer to my previous post where I said that the only way the Mets trade him is based on full health and previous years results, not this year.
If no team is willing to give up a Moncada and Kopech return then no team will get Thor this year.
Ok so we are only trading off hypothetical situations then. That’s make a lot of sense.
So your bar is 190IP? Do you know how many guys hit 200IP last year? 13. Do you know how many guys will hit 200IP this year? Less than 13. Thor is at 120-something innings this year and before the end of the year he’ll hit 150IP…..4 times in the past 5 years. Sure, it isn’t your magical 190IP number, but literally a dozen guys or less will hit that this year….and out of those dozen guys or less…how many have Syndergaards’ career numbers….?
You are absolutely out of your mind. NO ONE is worth three Top 100 prospects plus two other top young pitchers. Must be a Mets fan…
Chris Sale isn’t comparable. Don’t compare that trade for sale
Sale had a far better resume than Noah does.
You’re in for some butthurt when Thor doesn’t net anywhere NEAR that kind of prospect haul.
I agree, which is why they should patch things up and keep him.
If that is your expectation then you’re going to be awfully disappointed in what the Mets actually get for Syndergaard.
if the mets dont get what they want he goes no where, simple as that. they have the offseason and 2 more years of control
Of course but who’s saying that’s what they want, you? That’s basically 5 top 100 prospects (All you listed appear on various top 100 list). What player has ever commanded that much? The Mets are not getting an unprecedented haul for Syndergaard. Better tamper those expectations.
There is no way the Mets are getting all of that, Lewis and Duran probably along with a couple low level players but not that many top 100 players
You’re crazy. All 3 for Thor? Lol. It will only take 1 of them, along with 2-3 mid tier prospects.
Sale was also way more valuable than Thor at the time of his trade. More durable, better results, more years of team control.
I think the Mets owe the Twins after the Santana trade.
I would see it the other way around, Santana was paid roughly 2.88 million per win with the Mets (46-34), even though none of the prospects outside of Carlos Gomez amounted to anything really at all with Twins, I would do that trade over again any day of the week.
you may be correct that Moncado and Kopech were ranked higher than the Twins prospects are, but Syndergaard is not Sale. Think again on the prospect return.
No way it takes all that talent from any team to pry him loose if the Mets are indeed intent on moving him.
Kanerson…. you would be lucky to get 2 of those 3 for him. Noah is trending downward. Could he be great again??? possibly, but an ERA of 4.36 is not going to get you the twins 3 top prospects, get a clue..
Twins would have to include Lewis and Kirilloff because either 1. the Mets would need that much value back because he is still under team control so they always could just keep him or 2. other teams will offer way more then that
if THOR gets traded it should be to the PADRES.. Padres need a front line starter. Mets could use their prospects. Reyes/Renfroe + Urias and Morejon would get things done!!
I’m really rooting for HOU, LAD, or SD to trade with the Mets for Thor. They all have top notch prospects that line up FAAAAAR better than the spare parts the Yankee fans want to trade to the Mets.
I’d rather keep Lewis and give them other pieces.
I hope they get him.
Thor & Don Smith for Kirilloff, Lewis, Duran, Thorpe & Sands
They should target Seth Lugo too, would help their bullpen for sure
Twins aren’t trading their Top 2 propects for anyone (not to mention “toss ins” like Thorpe and Duran.. If the Mets think they need both Lewis and Kirillof to finish a trade, they should be prepared to hear a dial tone because clearly don’t know how Falvey works.
Anyone? If I were a twins fans if I can ship out Lewis and Kiriloff for someone like Ronald Acuna Jr. i’d drive them to the airport myself.
But the prospects are so precious, tell me how is Buxton and Sano working out for the Twins? Good players no doubt but that was your last duo of can’t touch and can’t miss prospects.
Buxton is good, Sano will be better once his injuries heal.
Sano is good. .277/382/600 in July.
Sure he strikes out a lot, but he’s like Adam Dunn, but plays third base alright.
Buxton and Sano are both very much contributing to this year’s playoff run… especially Buxton. So your point is nonsense.
Well, Buxton already has one 5 WAR season under his belt, is on pace for another and Sano has been an all-star already (Berrios a two time all-star who was also highly coveted). So, yeah, keeping those two made sense. But it’s also not a reasonable comparison because the Twins were never in a win-now position while they were prospects so they were never going to be traded. It makes sense to look at trading some of our prospects now but the price of talent to prospects has changed a bit. I don’t think the Mets could get both Lewis and Kiriloff in a deal in today’s game.
My guess is that the Twins would like to make a deal around Larnich, another top 100 prospect with some helium while the Mets want Kiriloff. The big question is the Pohlads, are owners are insanely cheap so they probably won’t want to add a pitcher that could command huge paydays in the future.
Yeah, the Buxton and Sano duo seems to be working out pretty well for the Twins.
what injuries does Sano have???
Thor is averaging 3.5WAR per season. That’s not exactly bad. Do I think he’ll bring in 3 top 100 prospects…nope. I think he can get a top 20, a top 50, and maybe 1-2 farther away prospects from 10-20 on a team’s internal prospect ranking. Some farm systems are deeper than others, so YMMV.
You don’t know how Falvey works either. Tell me who with the talent level and years of control have been available to the Twins in a winnable moment since he has been GM ???
You have no idea what he is going to be willing to give up. To win now he may give up the whole Top 10 prospect list of the Twins for Thor, Smith & Díaz. Win a WS and Twin fans could care less bout the prospects he gave up.
This question goes out to everybody that visits this site When is a GM actually suppose to use prospects to put their team over the top ???
Most ppl on here overvalue prospects like crazy. You guys act like GMs have an unlimited window and can wait for all these prospects to reach their peak. 3-5 years these GMs have unless they are successful and win. Or your Hunnington and you have pictures of the owner in compromising positions
Not every GM is operating on a 3-5 year window. The Twins in particular have tended to giving their GM’s long leashes ever since the Pohlad family took over in the ’80s. Since Falvey (and Levine) came in, they appear to have worked to build up the entire operation for long term, sustainable success. I really don’t think they will be willing to dismantle the prospect pipeline part of that by moving the top 2 plus other lesser prospects in the same trade. We’ll see.
I haven’t seen the Twins connected to Diaz at all, but they do need bullpen help, so maybe. Smith as in Dominic Smith? The Twins have a plethora of 1B options both on the MLB roster and in the minors, so I think that’s not realistic. But obviously, just my opinion.
I’m plenty happy to have the Twins move really good prospects for Thor. Who and how many is above my pay grade. But I don’t think it will include both Lewis and Kiriloff.
I can’t see the yankees giving up Torres. it doesn’t make sense to me. and if that’s the Mets’ starting point, with a ton thrown in after that, I think a deal can’t be made. Thor is very valuable, and this is not to dis him, but a Yankees Mets trade is just too visible in NYC for the Mets to do the deal and not “win” it and there’s a point where it’s way too rich for Cashman.
As a Mets fan…I can’t see Torres getting moved for Thor. I’d fly out to NYC and drive Thor to the airport if the Yankees moved Torres for Thor. Heck, Thor + Smith/Davis (part-time player type piece…not McNeil level).
If it takes that much to acquire Thor, hey Twins, please step away quickly. I would take a rental that is doing well and isn’t injury prone over him.
can Astros get him for Tucker, Bukauskas, Kemp, and low level prospect or 2?
would Astros do that?
Replace Kemp with Myles Straw and you have a deal
twins dont buy,they are always selling!
Mets gonna mess this up somehow.
okay, i get that its going to take a massive package to get the mets to deal him to the yankees, but Garcia, Frazier, and Loasiga are worth more in a bubble then a few years of an injury prone Thor with several other big question marks about him. Andujar, meanwhile, is not going anywhere jn any package, and probably has enough team control and less injury issues (this season’s included) to actually be worth quite more. if the Mets arent trading Thor to NYY without the Yankees overpaying, then same goes for Andujar.
Thors trade value is not necessarily high rn. Injury prone pitcher so far and is getting knocked around more than expected. Dont think the Mets are going to get back what they think for him. If they really wanna fleece the Yankees, do a De-Grom trade and get back half the yankees farm system lol. They could set a brand new team up by trading DeGrom. Just a thought. I know losing DeGrom to your neighbor Yankees is not ideal but that package could set the Mets into contention right away.
The demand for him is higher than his actual value so his price rises. It will become a bidding war and the Twins have a chance to make a little run over the time frame Thor is under their control.
A lot of teams most teams will want him that raises a bidding war.
they can theoretically get more from Astros, Twins, or Dodgers, why would they trade him to Yankees without an overpay?
depends on what they want back and what they consider an overpay really. if this was an inter-division trade it would make sense to require a big overpay, but it’s not like a rivalry between leagues should prevent them from getting, say, 10%-20% a better prospect package as far as their perspective goes.
We all know this story ends with the Mets getting fleeced, again.
No leadership, no direction, no future, the Mets.
I wish I could argue this, but you will be right most of the time with how pathetic the Mets ownership and front office have been in trades the last few years.
Yankees are not getting him. You think the Mets want to help them. Always a yankee fan want the next guy that hits the trade market. STFU
The Yankees would laugh if the Mets asked for Torres in a deal for Thor. There is no chance of that happening.
Kiriloff, Balzovic or Durhan, and Gordon. Throw in Diaz and the or becomes an and.
Thor to Rays? Package around Jesus Sanchez. Mets need a true CF. Josh Lowe would work too. Include any of Arroyo, Fox, and a Pitcher like Banda or DeLeon. I’d hate to include a youngster like McClanahan instead but it’s gonna take a big haul for any team wanting Syndergaard.
The funny thing about every comment thread on this post arguing what Thor’s return will be is this: the Mets don’t HAVE to trade him and can simply control his rights for the next 2 1/2 years while going absolutely nowhere and ultimately hurting his trade value two deadlines from now, which is a very Mets thing to do.
But I digress; the point is, anyone who is saying the Mets won’t get a Sale-level return for Syndergaard because he isn’t worth that much is probably right, but at the end of the day the Mets will either get what they want or they’ll hold him. If BVW wants Lewis and Kiriloff plus, he’s going to get Lewis and Kiriloff plus or he’s not going to make a deal. End of conversation.
the Mets seem pretty bent to trading him, and its a seller’s market. seems pretty reasonable to me.
This ultimately is what it comes down to. Couldn’t have said it any better.
I would do it for Lewis and Kiriloff straight up
I’m skeptical Syndergaard gets traded. Very skeptical it would be to the Twins. I suppose it could happen if the Mets were willing to consider an unconventional trade looking more at current production rather than pre-season prospect rankings.
Why do the Mets insist on wafting everyone’s time? Everyone should know that ownership won’t ok a deal for Syndergaard.
Reverse Johan Santana trade vibes?!
It’s so funny that yankee fans think that everyone in there system is worth the moon and don’t even consider that they would have to give up more then any other team to get Noah because of the New York rivalry
it does seem Yankees prospects do have generally higher regard anyway though. prospect boards seem to echo that, and while that doesnt matter to gms, i wouldnt be surpised if they were under a trace of the like as well.
Yankees prospects are always overrated. They dont need to trade prospects, they just try and buy the pennant every year. I believe any team that has a 200 million dollar payroll should lose a 1st rd pick every year to make the league more competitive.
Thor for Kirilloff, Smeltzer, Gordon and maybe another throw in lotto ticket like Wander Valdez.
Kiriloff, Smeltzer, Gordon and more, no way, I can see us giving up Kiriloff, with Kepler extended long term and Rosario and Buxton the next two to be extended our outfield will be secure long term, Lewis i can see taking over second, so trading away Kiriloff for Thor wouldnt be bad, but thinking you are getting a Sale-esque type trade……
Sale was traded for the consensus #1 overall prospect (65 FV), a consensus T50 (55 FV), a 50 FV and a lotto. Not the same as Kirilloff (60 FV), Gordon (50 FV), Smeltzer (high floor/low ceiling LHP) and a lotto.
Sale 2012-2016 vs. Syndergaard 2015-2019.
Sale
148GS (29.6 starts per year), 1015.2 IP (6.8 innings per start), 10.04 K/9, 1.98 BB/9, 3.04 ERA, 3.06 FIP, 3.05 xFIP 25.8 fWAR
Syndergaard
106GS (21.2 starts per year), 645.0 IP (6.1 innings per start) 9.75 K/9, 2.12 BB/9, 3.21 ER, 2.85 FIP, 3.13 xFIP, 17.1 fWAR
last season before trade (projected this year for Syndergaard)
32GS, 226.2 IP, 9.25K/9, 1.79 BB/9, 3.34 ERA, 3.46 FIP, 3.58 xFIP
32GS, 201.0 IP, 8.95 K/9, 2.56 BB/9, 4.33 ERA, 3.64 FIP, 4.04 xFIP
I think Syndergaard’s ceiling is higher than Sale’s, but his floor is way lower. Syndergaard has some durability issue concerns Sale did not come with, In addition Sale came with more control on an arguably more team favorable contract.
Had this trade been looked into at the beginning of the year when they had the same control length, yeah, I believe Syndergaard would have commanded a trade similar to Sale’s value, but with the injury concerns, performance decline and drop in velocity, there are a lot of reddish flags with Syndergaard right now.
I still think any team interested in the trade is going to need to cough up a lot. I don’t think the Twins are willing to pay it because they just don’t do deals like this.
If the Twins were to do it, I think it would have to be unconventional, considering more of current production than pre-season rankings, but it would still certainly involved 2 of the top 4 Twins prospects + quality extras like Gordon, Duran and Blankenhorn.
Well reasoned post with actual data. More posters should do this instead of repeating inaccurate and often patently false opinions they try and pass off as facts.
Agree, wasn’t saying Thor should command a Sale type return. Was just saying the return I proposed was less than what Sale got.
There’s no way he’s going to the yankees. I doubt he would be traded to the Braves too.
But I want to post this hypothetical trade:
Waters, Wright, Mueller, and CJ Alexander.
Possibility of Camargo instead of Alexander if they want it.
I still feel the Astros playing a part in a blockbuster deal for Thor centered around Kyle Tucker and 2 other players in their top 30 prospects.
I read dad that Astros won’t part with Tucker, don’t know how true it is…..
I read that the Astros won’t part with Tucker, don’t know how true it is…..
Honestly I’m shocked more people aren’t talking about the Astros here. I’d put them as my most likely landing spot. They are actually arguably one SP away from being the true favorite and the added control with Noah will soften the blow if they can’t/don’t resign Cole. The issue is the return. The Mets will no doubt want both Whitley and tucker and I think it’s realistic Houston gives up a package centered on Tucker I don’t think they’d include Whiteley. After that I’m not sure what they are giving up to make it worthwhile for the Mets as their farm isn’t overly deep.
After Houston I’d agree Minnesota, Tampa or SD are most likely landing spots.
I’d vastly prefer the HOU or LAD prospects to any true prospects from the Yankees. I don’t know as much about Minnesota’s 4-20 prospects, so I don’t know if they fit. ATL is deep with arms and may have a CF option available, but within the division…..tough sell. The Yankees would have to overpay and I just don’t see Cashman doing that because he wants dump spare parts. He doesn’t lose many trades…so I’m hoping the Mets go with HOU or LAD….both in regard to prospect options and not having to face him a ton or hear about him every day in the NYC rags.
Damn. Twins fleece of Mets coming soon.. SD get busy…
Come on Falvey prospects are worth trading for proven quality controllable talent. Get it done and prove your somebody.
Pretty obvious that the Yankees over Value all their prospects as a way of getting the player or players they want. However, the league is wise to this so the Yankees will not get any top player unless they add multiple prospects & this would gut the last of their tradable prospects. They need a frontline pitcher & if they don’t get one, they don’t have enough to get past Houston in ALCS.
I am surprised that the mets aren’t asking for Judge Torres and Sanchez as a starting point. The way the mets fans value Thor maybe throw in Florial and Garcia…..
Any non Yankee fan will have you believe that hats what it will take to just begin talkings. The comments are a joke on this site now
Most of these comments concern the Mets, but the story is about the Twins. The Twins need another power bat, not a pitcher. The club is redefining the game, the way it’s played, and the way you determine the winner. It’s become Home Run Derby. They had five homers last night, I think tying an old record for most 5-homer games in a season with nine. Add another bat with pop and they can hit 6, 7, maybe 8 in a game . If so, any old pitcher will do. Who wants the old game any more, with its singles, hit and run plays, bunts, stolen bases, and so on? The first team to 8 homers wins. On the plus side, you can focus your attention on your phone and all the important text messages you receive. Just look up when you hear the crowd stir.
interesting take. Absolutely, completely, fundamentally incorrect, but interesting.
Where would the Twins even put another power bat in the lineup? They lost 14-12 to the Yankees because their bullpen can’t hold a lead to save their lives. They need several arms.
The problem with that style of baseball is that it doesn’t really work in the playoffs. The air is cooler the Pitching is better and it rewards teams that have a mix but mostly really good pitching. It can work if the team gets hit enough but I would prefer a team like Houston who doesn’t strike out a lot and makes a lot of contact in the playoffs with two big studs anchoring the pitching staff.
Not the Braves. Please, if you’re going to trade him, please not to the braves.
Sanchez for Thor, thoughts?
Sixto, Aaron, Gary or none of the above?
Gary
In a NY minute the Mets take that…but I’d worry about the Mets pitchers having issues. His talent is undeniable and the Mets haven’t had a bat like his behind the dish since Piazza. No way the Yankees do that though….it’d be like asking for Judge.
Sanchez the guy who can’t hit his weight?
dang, if only he could lose a pound, then he would be.
Sanchez can’t hit his weight or not be a liability defensively I’m good
I read something the other day Lewis completely changed his swing this year and that’s why he can’t hit
Keith Law is still bullish on Royce Lewis being able to hit. He said the Twins have made some big adjustments to Lewis’ swing and Law hates them. Law is also on the record saying Lewis isn’t sticking at SS and that a move to CF would have already taken place in almost all MLB clubs where he thinks Lewis could be a 70+ grade defender.
Law is far from perfect, but Lewis has continued to boot a lot of balls. The good news is since the MiLB All Star Futures Game, Lewis has been crushing the ball. .298/.379/.561 OPS .940, wRC+ 173 with a 9.1% BB rate and a K rate down to 19.7%. Maybe he just needed a mental break more than anything.
Rumor had it Law was all about Ricky Romero and was bullish on Troy Tulowitzki. Nah, just kidding. Law’s MLB track record is abysmal. He’s in a great role questioning others who do it better.
Syndergaard is to Sale as Wheeler is to DeGrom
No way the mets are geeting the return that sale brought.
Actually, if you compare their numbers over the 5 years prior to the trade to the Red Sox, Sale and Syndergaard are pretty similar. Syndergaard’s ERA and xFIP were a little higher than Sale, but Syndergaards FIP is significantly lower.
Probably in Sale’s favor was 3 full years of team control with options vs. 2.5 for Syndergaard all in arbitration so Syndergaards ultimate salary cost is more in flux and will be higher than Sale’s in the final year of arbitration. Sale’s contract was set in stone at 12M / 12.5M / 13.5M compared to Syndergaard’s current projection of maybe a 6M / 12M / 18M trajectory.
The bottom line is they are/were both ace pitchers with more than 2 years of control. I’d argue Syndergaard’s ceiling is higher, but with a lot more risk because of Sale’s better durability and consistency.
The Sale trade has also worked out very well for the Red Sox. Elite pitchers at Syndergaard’s age, cost and control are unicorns.
I saw the Braves offered
RHP- Kyle Wright (Nationally ranked #23)
LHP- Kolby Allard (Braves #8 prospect)
RHP-Huascar Ynoa (Braves #11 prospect)
OF-Travis Demeritte (AAA prospect)
OF-Adam Duvall (29 HR’s in AAA)
Yeah, that’s not getting it done, but it’s probably just sticking on swapping Ynoa for one of the Braves top non-MLB guys (Pache/Anderson/Waters).
Not going happen…won’t be traded in the division…value should resemble Quintana or Sale’s on returns.
Hey, the number one responsibility of any team is to their fans. The fans’ top desire is wins. The owners who do whatever it takes to win, put their fans first. The owners who stare at their wallets; worry about operations; think a marketing scheme will make them heroes; are already losing on first pitch, opening day.
As a life-long Mets fan, I wish our owners put us first. We are no longer Brooklyn Dodgers fans (although we loved them). We are not Bronx idol worshippers. We are Mets fans. And we want a real team that wins year over year.
There a million ways this can go – trades, prospects, free agents… But the winning approach starts at the top.
Stop trying to cover up bad decisions, money worries and misguided loyalties with nostalgia and bad ad campaigns.
Let’s have managers who manage on the field, not from the front office. Sign players who focus on wins, not personal accomplishments, training regimens or great restaurants in St. Louis. Let’s have owners who hold themselves accountable.
And if you can’t do it right – sell the team. Move to Florida. Live on a yacht.. Enjoy life.
But give us a team that will win. Not hope to win. Just win. Fans deserve no less.
Well, the Twins got Jonathan Cheshire at least. i mentioned his name in an email to a scout and he wasn’t impressed, but he looks like could be a pretty nice relief piece.
If the Twins trade Graterol they will regret it for the next 15 years. I’d rather fail to make the playoffs than trade him. In fact, he is pitching well enough now to be called up this year, to win now!