The Braves were among the teams present to scout Marcus Stroman’s latest outing, per David O’Brien of The Athletic (via Twitter). The Braves are in many ways the perfect partner for a team with a moveable asset like the Blue Jays, as Atlanta is flush with near-ready major league arms, but lacking the consistency it desires as a team positioned for the playoffs. The asking price for Stroman is said to be high – in the area of what the Pirates surrendered for Chris Archer – but Toronto is likely taking the call even if Atlanta starts with one of its ready-but-struggling arms, depending on whom the Blue Jays favor from the group of Max Fried, Bryse Wilson, Sean Newcomb, Touki Toussaint and Kyle Wright. Landing in Atlanta would reunite Stroman with Braves general manager Alex Anthopoulos, who was the Jays’ GM when they drafted the hurler 22nd overall in 2012.
More on a few other noteworthy pitchers…
- Mets righty and prime trade candidate Zack Wheeler went on the injured list with a shoulder impingement on July 15, but it doesn’t appear that’s going to stand in the way of a possible deadline deal. Wheeler could throw a full bullpen session Sunday, Mike Puma of the New York Post reports. If that goes well, there’s potential for Wheeler to return in time to make two starts by the July 31 cutoff for trades, Puma observes. As things stand, the Mets are still optimistic Wheeler would net “a solid return” in a deal, according to Puma.
- Tigers righty Michael Fulmer provided an update Saturday on his recovery from the Tommy John surgery he underwent in March, Chris McCosky of the Detroit News relays. “Everything is going according to plan,” said Fulmer, who added he probably won’t pick up a baseball until October or November. The hope is that Fulmer will make it back to the Tigers’ rotation sometime next summer. While lefty Matthew Boyd is Detroit’s top trade chip nowadays, that honor belonged to Fulmer a couple years ago. However, thanks to the former Rookie of the Year’s recent downturn in performance, multiple injuries and his TJ procedure, Fulmer’s trade value is nil at the moment. Still just 26, Fulmer has another three years of arbitration eligibility left, so he could yet reemerge as a valuable starter for the Tigers.
- The Giants added righty Jandel Gustave to their 40-man roster Thursday, in part because he has an opt-out in his minors deal and was drawing interest from other teams, Henry Schulman of the San Francisco Chronicle tweets (sorry, Henry, but Gustave’s placement on the Giants’ 40-man is not the most obscure transaction MLBTR has covered thus far). As Schulman notes, Gustave possesses an enticing high-90s fastball. The 26-year-old hasn’t been able to harness his stuff into positive results with the San Francisco organization yet, however. Gustave has pitched to a 6.56 ERA/6.08 FIP with 9.26 K/9, 4.24 BB/9 and a 48.6 percent groundball in 23 1/3 Triple-A innings this season.
I’d rather see stro’ go to hot-lanta than the bronx. wider variety of prospects to choose from too.
GL with that, AA will look to screw TOR hard and with no mercy!
He doesn’t have any leverage. Toronto has lots. Also AA has gotten fleeced on many trades.
Including a deal with Cleveland involving ex-Yankees legend Esmil Rogers.
You act as if the Braves HAVE to do this deal. Believe me if teams asking prices are unrealistic AA won’t hesitate to sit back and do nothing, or perhaps turn to another team. This regime in Atlanta is very different from the desperation in Toronto that wanted to reach the playoffs after a 20 year drought. They’ll prevent him from doing anything drastic, and I’d venture to guess he would’ve already done so if he was that same guy. Care to name these trades he’s gotten fleeced on? Give me something better than Syndergaard for Dickey.
They’ll prevent him from doing anything drastic? Who is they? AA has carte blanche to make any move he wants. The only reason LM would get involved is if he requests more money than they make. LM is not involved in any aspect of the baseball operations. So many people dont understand this. AA is a stud of a GM and I trust him completely.
Yes AA traded Thor for Dickey. People forget Dickey pitched like an ace for 3 years leading up to the trade and Thor wasn’t even a top 2 pitching prospect in Toronto. D’Arnaud was the headliner in that trade.
You have a top 5 GM in AA overseeing your organization in Atlanta. You should be grateful instead of complaining about the 1 prospect that AA traded in his tenure in Toronto that actually made a difference.
As a Jays fan, I hold no ill will to AA for trading Thor. No one saw it coming. Quite simply, most pitching prospects no matter how highly rated, do not materialize anywhere close to what they are projected to, if they materialize at all.
If Kyle Wright repeats next year’s results like this year and last year and suddenly his value is a fraction of what it was in a 3 year sample size, it will be another fine example. I bet you’d wish AA would pull that trigger then instead of standing pat and hording precious prospects.
McGuirk and Schuerholz being *they* breathing down his ear will prevent him. Do you really think they would allow him to do “any move he wants”? Think again. He depleted the Blue Jays farm system trying to get them back to a deep postseason run, and that’s exactly what I think of when people start all this talk about how he’s aggressive or suddenly going to start making big moves. Their are certain guys that just aren’t being traded, and that includes much more than Anderson, Pache, and Waters. The Braves value their farm system much more than other teams. If you’re a Braves fan I don’t have to tell you that. Where did LM come from? Never mentioned them once. Besides, DOB just mentioned that it was most likely Giles and that they haven’t had any discussions with Toronto about Stroman. That’s to be taken with a grain of salt, but the fact that the Braves still need a viable closer gives me reason that they probably aren’t all that serious about Stroman.
@kanersen Not for Stroman. If we were talking about Justin Verlander or Chris Sale then absolutely but there aren’t any guys of that caliber available. Thus giving up something good with long term control isn’t worth it.
If you are using the Chris Sale comparison, I hate to break it to you but both Moncada and Kopech were and are considered much more highly then a guy like Ian Anderson. It seems like you think Ian Anderson should net you a guy like Sale, whereas it took 2 prospects rated higher then Anderson and then some to get Sale.
Last time I checked no Blue Jays fan or mlb analyst was ever even hinting at something like Pache AND Anderson, plus for Stroman. However you are implying that is the case when it isn’t and seem to be inferring that such a return is comparable to the Sale return…….and it isn’t.
No Chit. And i wouldn’t have any problem giving up someone like Pache along with Ian, for what it stands for right now at 5? years of control. It was 3 at the time I realize that, but Stroman is far from him. I’m implying I don’t want to give up anything remotely deemed good in the future for Marcus Stroman. In other words, I don’t want him at all. I hope that settles it.
Well,since he got inducted into the HOF today,this is a pretty good time to point out that AA traded Roy halladay to the Phillies for basically nothing.ine if the greatest pitchers in history and he got nothing for him.
@ fantasticword
Sure does.
Jays will get paid for Stroman regardless, hope for the rest of Atlanta’s fanbase that AA (the guy that actually drafted Stroman) doesn’t share your sentiments.
but they got Kyle Drabek and 3 other high upside prospects that had superstar potential.
I mean who would you rather have, an all star pitcher in his prime or 4 mystery boxes. Mystery boxes of course.
Don’t worry they don’t. All of them on social media and facebook rant and rave like Stroman is the next coming of Cy Young and how they want him so badly. I’d rather get someone like Bumgarner with chances of getting deep into the postseason than getting another first round exit for the last 15+ years. The Braves aren’t even close to the Dodgers or any other top dog in the AL and acquiring Stroman wouldn’t change that.
I gotta hate on Blue Jays fans. Your emotional attachment to your former players and love for AA because he got them into the playoffs for the first time in 22 years is a little exhausting. You’re not the first Toronto fan I’ve came across that has stated that pretty clearly. If we’re giving up very good players we need proven difference makers. Marcus Stroman isn’t that. I’m not denying he won’t get anything good in return, but the players Atlanta would have to give up to acquire him would likely get someone better.
You seem to think that Toronto fans love AA because he got them into the playoffs when in actuality the majority of all baseball fans love AA because he’s a great GM.
Toronto fans loved AA when missing the playoffs.
Toronto fans loved AA making the playoffs.
Toronto fans loved AA after he left the organization.
Whatever floats your boat though.
Also your generalization of all Toronto fans thinking Stroman is Cy Young is hilarious at best. You seem to be lumping semi-interested fans hanging on from the Jays recent playoff run in the same group as fans who have stuck with the team for ages. Ask any educated Blue Jays fan and you would know it’s silly to say that they think Stroman is the next coming. He is however a young cost controlled #1 pitcher and a premiere #2.
It would be the same as me saying the majority of Braves fans actually think that Ian Anderson is worth headlining a package for Chris Sale. Obviously the educated Braves fans are far too smart to actually think this and i’m not going to clump them with a few homers that think their prospects are going to be the second coming.
Agree with everything you said except for Stroman not being a difference maker. He immediately becomes your 1B and he is better than your mid season signing in Kuechel.
Now, Kanersen has overvalued Stroman and Giles and undervalues Ian Anderson. That’s his/her opinion. Bottom line, Atlanta needs an arm if they want to beat LA. Stroman has had enough experience with Bos and NYY to baffle the Dodgers.
Those were cases of Atlanta fans thinking Stroman is the next coming of Cy Young, not Blue Jays fans. I don’t know how or why you keep spinning my words, but it’s pretty annoying. I never said Ian Anderson would headline Chris Sale, either. He would definitely be part of a package that’s for sure. Anderson however is an untouchable imo and shouldn’t be traded for a Marcus Stroman, ever. You’ve seen so many busts and dead weight because of the mediocre scouting and development the Blue Jays have had which is probably why you’re giddy about giving them up. If history says anything about the Braves I’m not comfortable giving up another potential Adam Wainwright for 1.5 years of Stroman. And yes I do think Anderson has that potential that’s worth holding onto. Stroman being a “#1 pitcher and a premiere #2” is highly debatable especially given his track record and peripherals. The overrated sentiment that he pitches in the AL east and thus would be tremendously better in the NL is beyond annoying and highly exaggerated. No worries though AA values guys like Stroman with extra control over rentals like Bumgarner would could propel the Braves deep in October.
@TrimReaper That’s fair, but I don’t feel comfortable giving Anderson up for him alone. If Giles was included then I would probably think differently. The Braves still have a lot of good prospects that aren’t even on the top 100.
Yep. Giles definitely has to be in the deal. Agreed.
Care to name these trades he’s gotten fleeced on? Give me something better than Syndergaard for Dickey.
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Halladay for Kyle Drabek, Travis d’Arnaud and Michael Taylor
Traded for Jose Reyes, Mark Beuhrle and Josh Johnson
Traded for Troy Tulowitzki, LaTroy Hawkins
Trades Mike Aviles and Yan Gomes to the Cleveland Indians for Esmil Rogers.
It’s not all bad. He got Donaldson, and fleeced the crap out of LAA is the Wells swindle. But let’s not pretend as if he has not been fleeced.
and since the Syndergaard trade is a legendary bad trade, saying ‘give me something better’ might be impossible.
The Happ trade with Houston wasn’t a good one based on how many players were given up (at the time).
Also lost the Colby Rasmus deal with St Louis. Mike Napoli trade could have been considered a loss.
Wheeler for Kyle Wright?
Dom smith and syndergaard for tucker and Whitley?
Conforto for Brendan Rodgers?
Definite no for the first two from the non-Mets teams. Third one could be kind of intriguing however.
Wright is an overpay for Wheeler. The other two are underpays, no way the Mets do either.
Bukaukas, Seth Beer, Derek Fisher and one other non-Whitley arm for Dom and Thor.
Mets are looking for an over pay not eh prospects
Astros would have 0 interest in Don Smith
Tyler White is gone and gurriel stinks
Lol wtf are you smoking
Apparently the best stuff available
That asking price is ridiculous. Archer had much more control at a cheaper price( yes he wasn’t worth it, everyone knew that (but the pirates) but a year and a half of Stro. Who I like btw isn’t the same thing.
The asking price is not ridiculous, look at what stro has done this point (exclude the last 2 campaigns where he hasn’t been healthy) but when he’s healthy he could easily bring in the return that the rays got for archer, easily. And archer only had 1 more year of guaranteed control.
exclude the last 2 campaigns where he hasn’t been healthy
————————————————————-
If I get to exclude the last two seasons, I could trade anyone.
I’m not a Met fan but you really can’t be comparing Archer to Thor are you.Archer has not had an era below 4.00 since 2015,Noah Syndegard has been under a 3 era twice and has a career era of 3.20.Archer is not in the same ballpark as a pitcher as Thor so you can’t compare the deals they would recieve .Having control of a pitcher having over a 4 era yearly not such a great thing. Before this year Thors highest era was a 3.24 with an absolutely atrocious fielding team behind him
Read again. The comp for the Archer deal is Stroman.
I thought you were responding to the discussion started by davengmusic for Thor and Dom Smith.Since you weren’t as Gilda Radner used to say Never mind
So what is the most obscure transaction? It sounds like there’s a consensus at MLBTR
Nice to see these silly teams still overplaying their hands.
Kyle Wright, Koby Allard & Alex Jackson for Marcus Stroman ?????
Jays have a lot of Catchers in the system performing. Alex Jackson doesn’t need to be in the deal.
That’s a ton to give up for stroman
Jenista instead of Jackson and you have a deal!!
Dont overpay for Stroman please. In a year he wont be any better than the top guy he gets traded for
Would love to see Stroman and Giles come to ATL. Little worried about Stroman’s “antics,” but still think he could be big for us. Not sure I would give up Fried or Newk. Fried will be big for us, if not this year, in the coming years. Newk has been very solid in the pen and has the ability to pitch multiple innings.
His “antics”. What is so concerning about what he does on the mound? He’s confident and what he does helps him perform at a high level. Not sure why so many people think that’s a negative.
Exactly. The only person who seemingly has a problem with it is “Eck” of all people.
The antics mentioned might be his open social media campaign to get out of Toronto.
Doubt AA will move Fried and I hope he doesn’t. I can see Wright or Touki being in the package going to Toronto
Kyle Wright, Kyle Mueller & Greyson Jenista for Stroman & Giles
Switch Ian Anderson for Kyle Muller and prob close
Best landing spot for Bum is Atlanta for rest of 19 and future, Twins also a good option for SF
What do you guys think of Stroman,Giles, and McGuire for Wright/Anderson,Wilson, and Allard?
I think Atlanta would gladly take that and run for the best starting pitcher and closer on the market who are both controllable past this year.
Yates and Vasquez are on the market too. Giles certainly not the best closer that might get traded.
He’ll cost less to get though than Vazquez plus why not get both if you’re going for stroman anyways?
I’d rather deal Maile and promote McGuire.
Same here but my thinking was that maile doesn’t fetch much plus the braves don’t really have any catchers right now until Contreras so why not pair Jackson and McGuire next year.
Maybe. They also have Contreras in AA. I also believe your original deal can be done without giving up Reese. Stroman and Giles for those 3 arms could work.
I like it…. but would prefer Graterol, Larnach and Balazovic from the Twins. 🙂
No no no. Anderson is going nowhere. You can have Wright, Touki, Allard, etc but Ian leads the next wave with Pache and Waters.
Stroman for Wright, Gohara and Muller.
Who say’s no?
I like Gohara a lot, but my guess is Toronto. He can’t seem to stay in the game (I know he’s dealt with a lot of off field issues) and I don’t think a team trading for him really cares why.
I hope AA holds on to Kyle Wright. The Braves over time have held on to prospects too long and some have lost value. That could still be the case with wright. It has not been the best year for him so far but there is just too much talent there. Out of all the Braves pitching prospects he has the best shot at being a true number 1 which the team hasn’t had for some time now
No thanks. Wright reminds me too much of Gausman. Someone that has the stuff but doesn’t know how to harness it. The true #1 is Ian Anderson.
I went through all the deadline trades of starters with a year or more of control over the last few years. There really hasn’t been many of them.
Probably the best comp I found was the Sonny Gray trade. Gray had an extra year of control though. Gray’s numbers were a little better too but also he was pitching in O.Co and Stroman has been in the AL East. Admittedly I didn’t look at park adjusted numbers.
Gray went for 3 prospects…. two of which landed at 67 and 98 on MLBs top 100 list both with a 55 FV. Other was a 45 FV pitching prospect. Gray had an extra year of control…. but the trade was pretty universally called a steal for the Yankees at the time.
Definitely less based on less control… but the Jays will make sure it’s worth it. So maybe a 55 FV prospect in the mid to lower top 100. Plus a couple 45 FV guys? Likely pitching and OFs? Seems fair?
With that comparison then the Beaves should be able to get Stroman for Wilson, Gohara, and Jenista. I like that from the Braves standpoint but I dont know if that is enough for the Jays.
I would move Wright, Wilson, and Jenista for Stroman and Giles though…or Wright, Gohara, and Justin Dean for Bum and Smith
Nobody will take gohara dudes pushing 300lbs and hasn’t pitched in what like 2 years?
I think people would take Gohara as a 3rd piece. The guy has talent even though at this point he seems like a super long shot.
Wright, Gohara and Muller for Stroman is a deal that I think makes sense for both sides.
Super risky for the Jays with Wright bombing out and Gohara and the ultimate lottery pick, but high reward as well..
ATL isn’t doing that deal for just Stroman.
Anderson’s been the better pitcher in the minors over Wright. That’s the guy to target if you are the Blue Jays. Also younger than Wright.
I’ll take Stroman and Giles please
Let’s make this a blockbuster….
Stroman, Giles, Grichuk to ATL
Inciarte, Gausman, Ian Anderson, Kolby Allard, Tucker Davidson to Toronto.
Why would Toronto even consider that………..
For starters, Gausman covers 1 year before Nate Pearson and guys currently in A and AA make the leap.
Jays do not have a player capable of providing decent D in CF. Inciarte provides that. Grichuk’s the way to do that, and the Jays need to get rid of him and that contract. Gurriel makes Grichuk expendable.
Also a salary thing for both teams.
Did not expect anyone to say the Jays would be fleeced on this hypothetical.
Jays aren’t worried about replacement level cogs when they can just sign the leftover barrel during free agency like they’ve been doing. They have no delusion of being even a good team next year and should not give up any value on their most valuable trade chips just to be slightly above horrible next year instead of just horrible. They would have 0 interest in Gausman and Inciarte.
Also Jay’s do not need to get rid of Grichuk’s contract, i’m not sure if you think he has negative value which maybe is the reason why the rest of the package is low, but Grichuk and his contract are completely fine for the Jays.
Then get rid of Alford if you want to keep Grichuk. You still do not have a real CF, and Teoscar is not the answer.
Gurriel, Grichuk, Teoscar, McKinney, Alford and Biggio can all play the OF and none of them capable of handling CF on a longterm basis. Inciarte does that.
Gausman has 1 year left. It would not hurt the Jays, or help, to have him. That’s a throw-in for Atlanta.
Grichuk’s contract does need to go. He’s not part of the future and is being paid the next 4 years. Get rid of it. By any means.
4 years and 40 million dollars for Grichuk is not worth getting rid of by any mean’s necessary – especially if those means – mean diminishing the value of a Stroman/Giles package….which seems to be what you are implying with the offer and the reason.
Also Teoscar Hernandez is proving to be suitable in center in a limited sample size. Short of a blue chip CF prospect, there’s no reason to move Hernandez out of CF or diminish a Stroman Giles package by getting rid of Grichuk by any means possible.
This is a classic case of a philosophical difference; you think Grichuk has value for the Blue Jays 3 years from now when they are prepared to win. Whereas I don’t, and they could use that money in areas of need.
Not implying diminished value. You’ve overvalued Stroman based on the ideas you have higher up in the thread.
Teoscar is not close to being a blue chip anything unless he’s in the batting cage league. Since there isn’t a league of that nature, this is another difference of opinion; you think Teoscar can play CF, I don’t. Nor do I believe Teoscar has any future here in Toronto.
My way has Gurriel, Inciarte and an Alford/McKinney/Biggio platoon in RF while shedding payroll. I like my route better.
I think you are mistaken.
I said they shouldn’t move Teoscar off center for anything other then a blue chip CF prospect.
NOT that he was a blue chip CF prospect.
Anyways, if you include Grichuk without any negative value then that makes sense.
What doesn’t make sense is the return. I agree that this is clearly a philosophical difference in value but do not agree with your statement where I am clearly overvaluing Stroman. Stroman’s is an allstar, a good #1 and a premiere #2 with 2 pennant races left of control. Obviously if something like what you have offered is in fact the best offer on the table to Toronto, you take it. Chances are really good that it isn’t with a lot of buyers and not a whole lot of sellers, let alone sellers selling stuff worth buying.
If anything you are clearly overvaluing Anderson and Allard both of whom project as #3’s if they make it which is quite honestly a big if when it comes to prospects, and a guy in Davidson who I don’t even know is in Atlanta’s top 20 prospects let alone top 10.
That package might get you Stroman alone…..might….and even then I would certainly pass even though the value is in the ballpark(Stroman for Anderson, Allard and Davidson) . It certainly won’t get you Stroman and Giles.
Most people in Baseball think of Ian Anderson more than a potential #3. That said most think Allard is a back of the rotation guy. So it does average out. But, I believe Anderson to be the best one to come up behind Soroka.
Anderson is the best of the bunch. All he’s done is pitched great in the minors. Numbers reflect closer to a #1 than a 3. But hey, that’s just measuring pure performance.
I can’t see them trading Grichuk. He might have negative value on his contract…. but too early to give up on it right now.
And I really think the Jays will run their young starters out there after the deadline. Sink or swim time for a lot of the AAA starters. No Gausmans needed.
If Gausman is needed to lead the Jays to 3 pitching prospects I am all for it. Grichuk extension was and still is a fireable action. He could have been used as a trade piece. Instead he’s a glorified anchor.
Got a lot of other reasons to fire Atkins then the Grichuk contract. Donaldson/Happ/Morales come to mind off the top of my head.. He has done a good job restocking the farm though – got to give credit where credit is due.
In the end the Grichuk extension is far from an anchor., not sure why you feel like it is such a problem.
The contract will become a problem in two years when the Jays begin to spend around the core players. It was unnecessary and unwarranted, and it’s the typical stupid signing a GM makes too soon without reason.
Yes, Donaldson not being traded 2 years ago was a mistake. Not trading Pillar 2 years ago was a mistake. Signing Morales and then Pearce on-top was a mistake. Bailing out Bautista was only a mistake because of the Morales AND Pearce signings. Not bringing back a pitcher in the Happ deal was another mistake.
Gurriel’s emergence in the OF makes Grichuk expendable. Look at 2022, not 2020. Grichuk needs to go. Whatever it takes.
Why in the world would Fried be on the table? He’s been their ace this season.
Not close to being their ace at all
Think you got Fried and Soroka mixed up.
That’s probably it. Though each time I’ve seen Fried pitch he seems quite good, there’s a lot of promise there.
not really. He is average!
Wilson, Allard, Touki, Demeritte for Stroman and Giles
Jays will not trade Stroman for any package that doesn’t have Anderson or Wright in it, let alone both Stroman and Giles for a package that doesn’t have Anderson or Wright in it.
While Ender could come up in a package my guess is Camargo would interest the Jay’s if it would be prospects and a young established player. Camargo is ” super sub ” even if Jay’s have young infielders.
Jays have Drury, Biggio and Galvis that can play multiple positions in the infield. Even with Galvis likely to be traded, there is no need for another utility player when there’s an excess of positional flexibility as it is.
Camargo “could” fit once the Jays deal Smoak. Tellez/Vlad/Camargo holding 1B/3B/DH is possible. Camargo isn’t out of the question completely.
Max Fried likely isn’t really an trade option being the “most reliable” on the list of peeps
This is simple. Trade smith to the twins or dodgers. The reason I say the dodgers is that, even though the giants would give their all-star closer to their division rivals, zaidi knows their farm system and how good the prospects are, and could get a good rookie that has already been playing in the bigs.
They could also trade Dyson to the nats for like Shawn Doolittle or something like that