While there have obviously been some bright spots for the Mets this year, Joel Sherman of the New York Post rejects the idea that it’s just another season. Having dealt away significant prospects and bypassed opportunities to recoup others, the Mets made a win-now gambit that hasn’t paid out. That makes this year a distinct waste, Sherman argues. There’ll surely be long-term impacts that haven’t yet fully been felt. Most immediately, Sherman posits that skipper Mickey Callaway is likely to be bounced from the dugout — an approach that would be supported heartily by MLBTR readers.
More from the National League:
- There has long been debate as to whether and when Giants catcher Buster Posey would begin spending more time at first base. But that’s no longer really a relevant inquiry, Kerry Crowley of The Mercury News writes. Posey remains a steady presence behind the dish as his first decade in the majors draws to a close, but his bat has distinctly fallen off its former pace. The 32-year-old is slashing just .256/.320/.368, marking the first below-average offensive campaign of his career. What of top prospect Joey Bart, who is nearing MLB readiness? Crowley argues that he’s the better candidate to spend part of his time at first base once he reaches the bigs.
- Marlins right-hander Sandy Alcantara has increasingly impressed over the course of the season, as MLB.com’s Bill Ladson explores. The 24-year-old’s latest outing drew his earned run average south of four per nine over a 191 1/3-inning sample. Alcantara has outpaced his peripherals, but it’s still quite a promising showing for a young hurler. Manager Don Mattingly says that Alcantara “has turned the corner” as he has increased his confidence and aggressiveness. Alcantara will not be eligible for arbitration until 2022.
Sometimes when you can’t tell from the standings whether a team had a successful season, it’s comforting to know that there are an endless number of experts in the media who are able to inform you at a deeper more profound level that not making the postseason is a failure.
Great observation
derek jeter is the Buster Posey of the East Coast.
?
Wow, a hot take. A superficial one, but a hot take nonetheless.
Joey Gallo is the Chuck Knoblauch of the Dallas-Ft. Worth area.
No, Mackey Sasser is the Chuck Knoblauch of the Mets.
You mean way overrated because he played in a Major Market with an All Star team around him every year, and an owner who spent cash like crazy? What would have happened if someone like Robin Yount or Barry Larkin played in NY?
Robin Yount on the Yankees would have had the media comparing Trout to him, such a pathetic bias. There’s 30 teams all playing 162 games, who cares who has the most fans? Why should that dictate anything?
Frank Robinson was better than Mantle but there’s no New York bias at all.
Nah, Posey actually won an MVP and led the league in a meaningful stat one time.
And he can play defense…
Posey is still one of, if not the, best catcher in baseball. Offensive numbers are easy to see, but what Posey does behind the dish is hard for most fans to appreciate. But what a catcher does plays an incredibly important role. He needs stay there as long as he can.
Posey’s surgery was apparently successful, but he did not have much rehab time. If that’s true, with a full off-season to regain his strength back in the hip, a bounce back is probable.
I’m not sure how close Bart is to MLB. Catchers generally need more time in the minors. Posey spent less time there, 172 games, than most catchers. Bart has 130 so far. I see him as a September call up, unless he really goes off and forces his way on to the 26-man roster sooner. But I doubt he’ll be called up until mid-season at the very earliest.
I just think it’s cool that someone named BART will play in San Francisco.
They’ll need to find a pitcher name MUNI somewhere. Any amateur baseball players named Caltrain out there, by chance?
The cleanest train system I ever road in.
Posey isn’t even a top 5 defensive catcher in 2019, let alone “best catcher in baseball” – he’s not even a top 10 C in the game. Calm all the way down with the hyperbole, Bart should be the Giants C in 2020 for sure.
You could not be more wrong. Who are these 10 catchers that are better? It’s easy to just say that, how about something to back that up?
Ask Joe Girardi, whom I think knows better than you. I saw him doing a spot on MLB Network and he praised Posey, and pretty much no one else for what he does at the position.
Realmuto has had a great year at catcher and has a 12 DRS this season, but carries a -12 DRS for his career. Posey has a 121 DRS for his career, averaging 12.1 per season. Yadi Molina has averaged 10.5 per season for his career.
Don’t go making ridiculous claims, like Posey isn’t a top 10 catcher without something to back that up. You clearly do not understand what you’re talking about
You just tried to discredit him for a statement without any statistical evidence to back it up. You then proceed to give a career average, rather than a current measurable. Posey MIGHT be a top 10 catcher, but you’ll need some relevant things to show us.
Two huge things you clearly don’t want to discuss would be his durability and the significant drop in offense. If he’s not on the field, he isn’t contributing enough. Please support why he’s top 10 at THIS POINT in time. We all know his credentials from his prime. Save it.
He made a statement without any evidence to back it up, when I did provide some evidence for my POV. Why am I off-base here?
Career stats are valid, but I get your point. I didn’t mention that Posey has a DRS for 2019 of 14, which is better than his yearly average, because if I did, someone like you would claim I was cherry-picking.
I haven’t looked at every catcher, but Posey’s DRS of 14 is better than any catcher that I’ve seen so far.
If you read my earlier post, I addressed his offensive drop off. But the hip, that required surgery was well documented as limiting his power. It’s also well known that his late season surgery limited his rehab time.
Next season, after Posey will have plenty of time to strengthen the hip, if he continues to fall off offensively, I’ll buy that he’s declining. But the jury is still out. And it does not subtract from the fact, that despite the physical limitations caused by the surgery he is still one of the best behind the plate.
I do actually agree with you that Posey is being somewhat abandoned in the conversation as a higher level catcher for many reasons.
He’s getting older and his injuries stacking up do not help him play his position. His walks dipped and his strikeouts went up (both significantly for number of GP vs rest of career). He is past his prime and his defense will not be what it used to be, especially with his arm. Calling games and framing will remain helpful, but the rest will not.
Regardless of his DRS, he is nowhere near as valuable this year as Realmuto. After Realmuto and Roberto Perez, I think you could make an argument that Posey is top 5 with a number of other options. Catchers now are either bat only and horrendous defensively, or vice versa.
As I said in multiple posts now. Posey’s 2018 was hampered by his injured hip. He had late-season surgery limiting his rehab. 2019 was disappointing, but if it is due to an incomplete rehab, then I’m willing to wait to see how 2020 goes. That should tell us everything.
But I’m of the belief that teams employ the better defender/worse hitter over the opposite. No one can hit well enough to overcome the runs a bad defender potentially allows.
There is a concern that certain defensive liabilities in an OF can give up more runs than what he can produce. If that’s true for an OF, then it has to be magnified multi-fold for a catcher.
I won’t argue that Realmuto may have had more value. Posey was better behind the plate, but Realmuto was a good defender and did hit better. I do totally agree about Perez though. He was better both as a catcher and as a hitter.
Posey at one time in his prime was the best catcher in baseball hands down, but the last couple years he’s been below average. Voght made his numbers look like poo sauce this year while playing just about good as defense as Posey. I think Posey should bounce back next year. I can see him posting a OPS around . 800-.820 in 2020. Bart is going to be a beast watching him play and Richmond and taking batting practice,the dude is an animal and he’s got ridiculous defense
Oh please Posey is the 3rd best catcher in his division at this point
Who are the 2 better catchers? Will Smith hasn’t played long enough. His entire career is a small sample. Russell Martin? Please. Carson Kelly? Ridiculous. Austin Hedges comes close, Posey is slightly better, but Hedges is useless with the bat. Tony Wolters isn’t as good as Hedges, and is almost as bad with the bat.
It’s absurd to say a guy with a legitimate shot at the Hall of Fame is not as good as guys like Hedges, Wolters etc. Clearly you are as clueless on the subject as @Strike Four.
You are definitely the clueless one. Hedges is awful and he is the one you spent the most time defending against and even said he “came close” to Posey. The fact that Russell Martin amd Wolters were others you thought I was reffering to is downright comical. Its Will Smith and Carson Kelly. No one is saying Posey is not a hall of fame player, or saying the others will be better players. RIGHT NOW Posey is not as good as those 2 and this is not statistically debatable. The numbers prove it. Giant fans are so sentimental its insane. Were not in 2014 anymore
You made a statement that Posey was 3rd best without naming the better 2. Since you were clearly wrong I had to go through all the NLW starting catchers trying to figure it out. That I mentioned Martin and Wolters does not signify anything, since I was mentioning them all.
Hedges is awful with the bat, but that’s not what we’re talking about. Hedges had a 12 DRS. Better that Kelly or Smith.
Carson Kelly has a DRS of 2, as does Will Smith. Since Smith played only about half as many games at catcher as Posey I’ll assume a 4 for the season. Posey’s DRS was 14.
I think it’s clear who’s clueless here.
Actually I was wrong. Hedges has had the best year defensively of any catcher with an astounding DRS of 22. His yearly average of 11.8 is slightly worse than Posey’s 12.1. but is impressive nonetheless.
@amk3510
Plus, you clearly missed my initial point, that what a catcher does at his position, is more important than his hitting. Though Posey’s offense was sub-par this season, his catching was still superb and of plus value to his team. Anybody that cites batting stats in an evaluation of a catcher doesn’t understand the game very well. It’s why a good hitting, good defender is so valuable. The offense is just gravy.
DRS is not the only way to evaluate a catcher lol. And as much as you want to make up a narrative about defense, you still have to hit in baseball. How many games will poor defense at C cost you? 1-2 at most. Putting his contract to the side if the Giants were offered Posey straight up for any of the 2 catchers I named they take it. If you think otherwise you arr flat out lying to yourself. But I think your alreay guilty of that since your living in a early 2010s timewarp with your analysis of Posey.
Your delusional if you believe a poor catcher will only cost a team only 1-2 games.
My analysis of Posey is in agreement with Joe Girardi. He made his opinion earlier this season not, 2010. Between your opinion and Girardi’s who should I think is more valid? Hmm…
Good thing Will Smith isn’t a poor catcher. Cant speak for Kelly because I don’t watch the Dbacks but I’m pretty sure he can hold his own back there. Girardi says it so it must be true and his word speaks for all? The majority of any group of experts will tell you Posey is a fringe top 10 C at this point in his career. Giants fans are clearly going down with the ship when it comes to Posey. He is clearly trending down fast, but nope not to those who live with orange and black glasses. No wonder they had to hire Zaidi.
Facts!
Talk to me when he’s 37 and see if he is still playing like Yadi who is the Goat .Posey is awesome but he hasn’t had to manage the team too
Belt for Randal Grichuk. Problem solved on both sides.
Nobody wants the Giants over the hill players, with unmovable contracts.
You sure? Lot of straight up dumb FO’s out there (Pittsburgh…)
In a trade between the Pirates and Giants who traded away a young stud for an over the hill McCutchen? I got news for you, it wasnt Pittsburgh
Sure they do. I still can’t believe they got rid of Melancon.
Belt will be traded this offseason. Even if it’s for some reclamation pitcher with an undesirable contract. I can almost see Zaidi cringe every time he’s in the lineup.
Regarding Buster… Posey defensively is still as good as anyone around, and he wasn’t all the way back this year. I don’t think the offense will ever come back all the way, but with a full offseason to get healthy he can hopefull be better than now. Regardless, next season he needs to bat lower in the lineup (7th or 8th).
He also won’t be moved to first. Like the article says, when Bart comes up they will mix him in with Posey at catcher and give him some time at 1st to keep him healthy. I predict Bart to come up this time next year. Heck, if he can provide thump I say convert him to 1st immediately.
Wrong James. A team not ready to win for a year or two would be willing to trade a bad contract for another team’s bad contract (Belt). Belt has two years left, Grichuk has four at a lower rate per season. Belt’s contract can be moved. Bad contracts have been moved. History has proven that. Might want to pay attention so you can avoid sounding inept in the future.
Why? Belt can play the outfield.
Belt is DH/1B. Tellez is 1B/DH. Are you new?
Posey is still a plus defender and a hometown favorite. I really wish he played first more because I’ve never been a huge fan of Belt, but unless we limit his time for Posey at 1B and push for Bart to be moved up, Posey won’t be leaving the dish anytime soon.
Here’s hoping Posey’s bat comes back next year. It sucks to watch one of the games best players be derailed by injury. I’ve always felt Posey and Mauer were pretty comparable and watching Joe’s career end with a whimper playing 1B wasn’t enjoyable.
Joel Sherman’s opinion doesn’t make sense. At the trade deadline they acquired Stroman age 28 for two minor league prospects.
The Met starting staff is still young and if they resign Wheeler, they will be in good shape. All but deGrom under 30 years old.
Even if they had looked to move Wheeler, their return would have been minimal.
Alonso, McNeil, Davis, Conforto, Nimmo, and Rosario all under 30. With only Cano and Ramos over 30. This doesn’t include Cespedes who will be 35.
That leaves the bull pen as the most critical need. I don’t think you give up on Diaz at age 25 with his 100 mph stuff. Almost every team in baseball had to scramble with their bull pen.
To call this season a waste is stupid when you consider that Alonso, McNeil, Davis and Rosario established themselves as solid to tremendous future major leaguers.
One last mention, everybody points to Cano as a major blunder. I want to give him a lot of the credit for Rosario’s growth over the year. He was like the pied piper to him. He was able to encourage Rosario and teach him a lot of the baseball nuances.
I think that The Mets have set themselves up well for the very near future. Starting staff, young position players, with the bull pen the only glaring weakness.
Agreed. The team made the year exciting when it could’ve packed it in after the All-Star Break. Who would’ve picked the Mets to be mathematically alive the last week of the season when they were 40-50 and only ahead of the Marlins in the National League? They’ll likely finish either 6th or 7th in the NL. That’s a long way from 14th.
Oh, the other veteran over 35 who is under contract next year is Lowrie. Lagares and Frazier will be free agents, though I could see a scenario where Toddfather resigns at a lower rate.
Additionally, the bullpen may not be as big a weakness as it was earlier in the season. Lugo and Wilson have been pleasant surprises. If Díaz, Familia, and Gsellman can regain their prior forms, they could have a dominant pen, but that’s a big if.
Alcantara is going to be a stud. He probably end up tied for the majors in shutouts this season and yesterday was 2/3’s of the way to having his third shutout. He’s cutting down on his walks and it’s making a big difference in his ability to go deep into games. He’s doing all of this while striking out less than seven per nine.
A few years back Familia threw a 4 seamer and a nasty splitter…?? What happened, now 2 seamer and slider…like to see someone teach a change up to Diaz, think now days relievers need more than 2 pitches..
Alcantara will have his ERA significantly regress. So so command without a true swing and miss pitch. His BABIP and HR/FB% is nowhere near sustainable
I think Sherman is going a bit overboard. The Mets would have been silly to sell low on Wheeler or Syndergaard at the deadline, and the full impact of the Cano/Diaz and Stroman trades won’t be visible for at least a few seasons. Do I consider this season a success? No – it has continued to expose the dysfunctional nature of the organization from top to bottom, and they have major questions moving into the offseason. But I also don’t think this season was the disaster Sherman is making it out to be (honestly, I wouldn’t even put this in the top 10 for disappointing Mets seasons I’ve lived through)
It’s not about this season so much as the future. The Mets mortgaged away much of their system for the last two years to “compete” yet they wouldn’t go all in financially.
Next year, the Mets already have $115million in payroll before adding one free agent or re-signing Thor, Conforto and a starter. The Wilpons will not spend to actually make this team better. It will be the same thing you had this year but worse because Wheeler will undoubtedly be gone and Cano is still here.
Joel”Mr Obvious” Sherman.
Mets need to recycle the funds that they have tied up in Cespedes and Lowrie to bring back pitching. At the very least the $ can fill a need and not be wasted on two players who aren’t taking playing time away from other more deserving players. If the Mets can move Cano (even if it means eating some $$$) it would be worth a shot at allowing McNeil a chance to play 2B everyday and this open up everyday 3B for Davis which is his natural position.