The Phillies still have a handful of games remaining, but their loss to the division-rival Nationals on Tuesday afternoon all but ended their season. Philadelphia dropped to 79-77, officially eliminating the team from playoff contention and leaving it to look ahead to the winter. The Phillies were more aggressive than any other franchise in baseball last offseason, which led to hope they’d put an end to a lengthy playoff drought as early as this year. Instead, though, they’ve now gone eight straight seasons without a berth, and second-year manager Gabe Kapler could be one of the fall guys for their most recent failings.
Just last week, general manager Matt Klentak credited Kapler for “doing a very good job,” adding that “the group is playing hard down the stretch.” But the Phillies entered the second game of Tuesday’s doubleheader mired in a stretch of five losses in six games, and the Nats outscored them 21-4 over the first three matchups of their series. That skid “speaks loudly of a dead team playing out the string,” opines NBC Sports Philadelphia’s Jim Salisbury, who notes that owner John Middleton will have more say than Klentak in deciding Kapler’s future.
After Middleton authorized a few high-cost acquisitions last offseason, including Bryce Harper’s historic $330MM contract, it’s possible he’ll now decide to look elsewhere in the dugout. There has been improvement this year compared to last season’s 80-82 finish, though the Phillies arguably haven’t progressed enough under Kapler. The team collapsed in the second half of last year, when it led the NL East with a 65-52 record as late as Aug. 12 before sputtering to a 15-28 mark over its final 43 contests. While this season’s squad didn’t control the division as late into the summer, it was in first place with a 38-29 record on June 11. Since then? Forty-one wins, 48 losses.
In fairness to Kapler, injury and pitching issues have played obvious roles in the demise of the 2019 Phillies. While the team wouldn’t solve those problems with a managerial change, they could nonetheless help hasten Kapler’s exit. If that happens, perhaps the Phillies will reverse course on their next managerial hire and look for an established option (Joe Girardi? Joe Maddon?) rather than a neophyte to lead their 2020 roster.
(Poll link for app users)
First 50 votes: 43 yes, 7 no
It shouldn’t be will the Phillies fire Kapler but should the Phillies fire Kapler and the answer is yes
Should he be fired?: yes
Will he be fired?: no
Kapler just crooned a love song to the Phillies brass. It was disgusting. If he stays manager, although it breaks my heart, I will start singing “Let’s Go Mets”. I have been a fan for almost 50 years. I have never disliked a management so much. Makes me miss Ruben!
Joe Girardi would be a great hire for Philly.
I don’t understand the fascination with Girardi. They ran him in NY due to his work or lack of work with the young guys. He always had a team in the top talent wise and won 1 World Series. To me he gets a lot of Love because he was a Yankee Mgr. and the small success sort of in Miami.
Not saying that he’d be a great fit, but Girardi got the most out of some old and overpriced “stars” in ’14, ’15, and ’16. Those teams were bad…
To be fair, a World Series win is a lot harder than one might think. Yankees don’t win every year no matter how good they were in the regular season.
as would Maddon…
I was thinking maddon would be a great fit.
Maddon will be The People’s Choice. After not going with The People’s Choice two years ago and it not working out, the Phillies will be loathe to not go with the fans’ choice. If Maddon doesn’t work out, tell the fans, “Hey, we did what you wanted, it’s on you.”
Joe G will be the Cubbies Manager in 2020.
They can fire him but nothing will change. The FO(Klentak/MacPhail) have been awful since joining team.
You’re right. All of those individuals are tied at the hip. The real issue has been Klentak’s failure to significantly upgrade the talent pool or to develop the talent they have on hand.
I’ll admit I don’t follow the Phillies that close, but Segura, Realmuto and Harper come to mind.
Ok, just stop right there with the whole making sense stuff.
They upgraded the major league roster this year, but Klentak and MacPhail have been here since 2015. They’ve had high draft picks every year and have failed miserably at replenishing the farm or at least deepening it. It’s even worse in the upper majors.
Injuries were a big problem for this team this year, especially in the bullpen. But look at a team like the Yankees. They were destroyed by injuries but had good players they could actually call up. The Phillies relied on Franco, Sean Rodriguez, Nick Williams.
And for the second straight year they chose to not address the SP and hope the same pitchers as last year that didn’t develop, developed this year.
To me it starts and ends with Klentak and MacPhail. They need to go immediately. If the new GM wants to pick a new manager (which they will), that’s fine by me. But this isn’t a Kapler issue, it’s an upper management one.
I’m not a Kapler fan by any means, but in all fairness it is not Kapler’s fault that the Phils brass somehow believed that Pivetta, Eflin, VV, and Arrieta would all take the necessary steps forward in order to compete in a really tough division. I don’t blame Klentak for not seeing the diamond-in-the-rough, bargain deal in Lance Lynn, as 28 other GMs missed on that one too, but SOME second-tier FA pitchers should have been added to this rotation during the winter, so that we wouldn’t have had to keep rolling out the struggling guys. By not addressing it in the winter, Klentak forced himself into the small box that HE created–the box at the trade deadline that says, well, we need to make some moves, but now the options are super limited, so I’ll go with Vargas and Smiley.
@raltongo
Yep, A handful of games back in the WC hunt and the Phils were relying on retreads who, despite being retreads, outpitched many of the staff who didn’t end up on the DL out for the season. The VV Jeckyl and Hyde confusion remains. Nola showed that last year was not a fluke but that it was probably his peak. Arrietta was who we thought he was. I applaud him for pitching through pain like he did but you could tell his command went into the toilet at that point. The real tragedy is the continued lack of pipeline development. There was NOTHING viable as a replacement starter ready within the system. Klentak has been in Philly long enough to solve problems like that. I don’t expect them to sign every Corbin or Cole. That is fiscally unsustainable. But they sure as hell better develop some guys of their own to outpitch the Vargases and Smileys of the world. They have not. I have been supportive of Matt Klentak’s approach since he got here but the results are simply not there in terms of player development. They’ll have to go on another FA binge this winter to stay competitive. That is a bad business model.
I thought bringing in Charlie Manuel as batting coach indicated an inability on Kapler’s end to communicate on a certain, non-stat driven level. You can’t beat old school communication. The Phils should move on from Kapler.
Well said
Kapler isn’t a hitting guru and was never expected to be anything of the sort. Only indication I see with bringing Manuel back is what you said, but about John Mallee instead.
He should get 1 more chance. They should add more in the offseason and might finally have a team that can compete. Their front office is more to blame than Kapler
so like 2 weeks into the season last year there were talks that the phillies might fire kapler after all of the drama that happened early on. then by the end of the year there were talks about how many manager of the year votes he would win. now a year later we are asking again if phillies will fire him. this is exactly why i absolutely cant stand managers being voted on for manager of the year just because their team was most improved. how many times is a manager of the year winner or candidate going to get fired within 2 seasons before they actually start giving it to the best manager
I could be wrong but I don’t remember Kapler being a manager of the year candidate at all last season. I actually remember people blaming him for the 2018 late season collapse. It’s hard to even consider him when he was expected to have a 1st or 2nd place team and he ended up with a losing record. Especially when you consider the fact that there is another man in his same division that took a team that was expected to finish 4th and ended up winning the division. Brian Snitker was the only man in the National League that deserved manager of the year. Considering that the Braves were picked to finish 4th again this year and he lead the Braves to an even more dominate division championship I think he should get it again this year. The only competition is Craig Counsel and that will only happen if he makes the playoffs as the #2 wild card. The biggest problem with Philly is their GM. How do you spend so much money on offense on bullpen when you only really have 1 legitimate great starting pitcher? That rotation needs a serious upgrade. Looking at the team now I don’t understand why the Phillies brass would rather have Harper and Robertson instead of Patrick Corbin and close to $200 million to spend elsewhere. Can you imagine that? Corbin would be in your rotation and you would still have about $200 million to plug in other places! $200 mill could improve the team a lot more than Harper and Robertson have. On top of that you would have 2 great starting pitchers at the top of your rotation.
Should they? Probably. Will they? Don’t think so.
It’s all about the pitching.
This. They need a new pitching coach. Young just ain’t it. Not that I really like Kapler, I don’t think he’s a great fit either.
pitching coach ain’t gonna solve it. you think a new coach is gonna come in and be like, “hey, Pivetta, I’ve got a brand new idea that I’m sure you haven’t heard before: try not to leave the ball up and out over the middle of the plate to get schalacked into the seats.”
…and Pivetta will just stop doing it??? because of a new coach???
Coaching may have a small, small effect here, but the major issue is that the Phils just simply haven’t A) successfully developed top-tier pitching talent alongside their competitors (Braves, Mets) nor B) successfully signed top=tier pitching talent relative to their competitors (Nationals).
Phils got ONE dependable arm in Aaron Nola. ONE. Any pitching coach you bring in will not change that fact.
Two words: Larry Bowa.
the manager do not pitch or bat. And also do not make those huge millions for having a soso season.
If you’re calling Harper’s season so so, you are an extremely tough critic. 100+ RBIs, 30+ homers, .350+ with RISP, great defense. I wish more Phillies had so so seasons like that.
Uh oh, back to being an underwear model.
I’m not sure any manager could succeed with the pitchers they gave Kepler to work and supposedly win with. A manager can only do so much. It’s his management style that most don’t care for. They seem to want more of an old school take charge manager when GM’s prefer the new stats manager that will use what the front office provides. I’m not sure fans will ever get what they want which is an instead winner.
Madden will be the one! World Series contenders for the next half decade.
Madden is also very overated he won with teams that where great just like girardi. I say give a chance to young managers this old guys have nothing in common with the young players. Stop recycliling managers who have never won anything.
Like a World Series for the first time in 100 years?
Go hire Doug Mientkiewicz, Philly! Doug is a Gamer!
I don’t hate that idea. He could assume the President and GM role like with Boston. Worth a shot.
They should
This has Mike Scioscis’s name all over it, so long as they want to change philosophies. Return of the prodigal son.
Can we stop this “old school-new school” silliness? Metrics were used by Branch Rickey. By Earl Weaver. By Tony Larussa. Recently by Bruce Bochy, Terry Francona, and Bob Melvin. That dichotomy just doesn’t exist.
Kapler? Seems to me his issue is communication. Any manager, any environment knows “owning” the idea is only half the battle; you have to “sell” the idea. And he has a tendency to make it all about Gabe Kapler. Ya, Larussa did the same; Kapler ain’t Larussa; doesn’t have the street cred. Every former Bill Belicheck assistant soon discovers he can’t act like Bill; he doesn’t the trophies.
Kapler probably goes; someone’s gotta.
Kapler’s fault or not, when management spends the money they did in the offseason and doesn’t make the playoffs, the Manager is the easiest guy to fire.
Fact is, this is the first of 4-5 Managers that will be fired during Harper’s tenure. Too much money invested in a guy that just won’t lead a team to the promised land.
So then you’re also saying that Mike Trout, the greatest player in the history of the game, will also be the reason why 3-4 guys lose managing jobs in Anaheim? Because he, like Harper, will also never lead a team to the postseason? Takes more than one guy to win.
No it doesn’t. Didn’t you know that the other 8 position players, fielding, taking at bats, and all the pitchers are actually Mike Trout too? So even though he succeeds as the Mike Trout we know, he fails at so many other hidden Mike Trouts.
He absolutely should go as should Klentak and pitching coach Chris Young. These idiots are running Nola into the ground. What reason was there for him to pitch tonight? He’s scheduled to pitch again on Sunday, he’s struggled since he was announced to pitch every 5th day, he hasn’t won in over a month.
Yes, I think Kapler will be used as a scapegoat. He hasn’t had much pitching to work with and the lack of development in starters like Pivetta and Velasquez is on the pitching coach, if anyone. The underperforming offense is not on him either. Obviously Mallee was fired.
Klentak was extended two years prior to the season, why, I don’t know.
The problem with the Phillies’ upper management, and it has been an issue for years, is that they are somewhat lacking in integrity. They like to hire their friends and those they’ve worked with before. I don’t know if that has extended to their scouting department, but they are greatly lacking talent in that area.
Kapler is a terrible manager but the Phillies are a deeply flawed team beyond just him. The front office went all in on offense last offseason but did little to nothing to address their terrible pitching staff. Not to mention that their rebuild failed to produce much talent. For a team that went through a rather long rebuild the Phillies have very little homegrown talent on their roster
If you fire Kapler them Boston’s manager need to go…point being is you can’t blame the manager when the front office sucks.
The Phillies created a strong lineup and did nothing for the rotation. Nola had a mediocre year which sums up the entire staff. Harper was overpaid for what he is.
The reality is they need retool the rotation behind Nola and beef up the bullpen. Name one young player that took a step forward or was better than average? Kingery pretty much was the best and he became what was expected in his rookie year.
Your comment doesn’t explain the Phillies offensive struggles. It’s easy to assume pitching will fix everything, but this team did not hit.
The Glorified club bouncer needs to go!!! No excuses with injuries. Aaron Boone lost half his team to injuries and found a way to win the division.
Feel sorry for them when they’re forced to put $10mil backups in there…
Kapler is not well liked by the Philly faithful, but during the offseason Phillies management opted to a Yankees approach to the season: a strong bullpen will carry the weight of the starting pitching. That strategy fell apart as the Phillies bullpen was decimated with injuries. I’m pretty sure we saw the most injuries ever to 1 bullpen in a single season. Then the Phillies lost McCutchen, Bruce, Dickerson, Arrieta…etc. No manager could have saved this season. Kapler does not deserve the blame he’s getting.
That being said, this team only has 3 wins when trailing in tgs 7th inning. They do not have that comeback mentality that so many playoff teams have. Hoskins was setup to be the 1B to Harper’s 1A, but Hoskins underperformed so much that the Phillies must now see him as an Adam Dunn type of hitter. During this final Wild Card stretch, the Phillies dropped 4 crucial games in a row, scoring 2 runs or less in 3 of the losses. That’s unacceptable. I don’t think Kapler deserves the blame, but changes need to be made.
Yes, injuries ravaged the bullpen and McCutchen was a devastating loss as well. But still, you can’t use injuries as an excuse. If anything, they exposed the poor job that Klentak did building up the farm system and the team’s depth on the bench. In contrast, look at the Yankees and, across the street, the 2017 Eagles. Truly good teams have the ability to say “next man up” and not miss a beat when injuries hit.
Having said that, Kapler is also part of the problem. That the team is quitting on him now shows that he has lost the clubhouse if he ever had it.
As a metsfan, I dont see why the hatred for gabe hes the manager he will manage with what’s been given to him. The offense was greatly upgraded and also the defense with the c as and not so much with rf but Bryce doesnt kill u in rf actually impressed Bryce hustles in philly he never did that in dc. Its klentacs fault but you guys dont have all that $ committed the owner doesnt mind spending $ next year the phils will be contenders for sure.
Harper has played great defense all year. He suffered defensively last year because he was playing CF. He plays a solis RF and has an excellent arm.
You make a great point about $. I expect the Phillies to spend in the offseason, but it takes awhile for teams to mesh, and another rebuilding year is something Phillies fans cannot take. Harper will be in his prime soon. Nola too. Get them some help.
They should, but they won’t.
Makes me wonder, when you make a lot of changes, it could take another year to see the benefits.
This is the same situation the Padres were in.
He will be fired shortly.
Yes please. – All of Philadelphia
No I like him
I believe the organization has several problems. Scouting is one of them. They did do a nice job with Nola and probably with Bohm, but others have been failures,like Dom Brown. It seems as though many teams have international player superstars, the Phillies have none. I know they’ve made trades and received international money in return. Where are the results? Secondly I totally blame upper management for not fixing the obviously broken starting rotation. Both Corbin and Keuchel have put on pitching clinics against the Phillies this season, when in fact they both could have been pitch FOR the Phillies. I know the bullpen got ravaged by an injury tornado but if the starting pitching was better in the first place the team wouldn’t have to rely on an inept bullpen so much. Thirdly I do blame Kapler on game decisions like leaving VV and other starters in too long and at times not leaving Nola in longer. No situational hitting and base stealing at a minimum. Fourthly,they let Kranitz go and be very successful in Atlanta for Chris Young to be the pitching coach and he is terrible. No experience as a pitching coach and the pitching showed it too. Several things need to happen, Klentak, McPhail and Kapler all need to go. Realmuto needs to be signed long term. Acquiring pitching is a must even if it means trading Hoskins. Scout better. Also look at and imitate better organizations like Houston, Atlanta, Dodgers… This team has too many holes and too many problems both on the field and off the field to be playoff or championship worthy.
But, but, but, I thought Mr Sabermetrics was going to use his love and devotion to algebra to get Philadelphia to the promised land and show all the old time baseball people how clueless they’ve been for the past 100+ years!!!!! Lololol
Get rid of Klentak, then let the new GM decide who the skipper should be.
They shouldn’t
What the Phillies should do is. Get rid of the bench coach. Keep Kapler for next season. Keep Charlie as hitting coach & bench coach. And next season if day by June if the team is no better fire Kapler. The put Charlie in as acting manager for remainder of the season. Then go from there.
I agree with your ultimate conclusion as Charlie eventually returning as the Phillies’ manager. I have a different path though, with some reasoning behind it. Ask for Kapler’s resignation the day after the last game of the season (He saves a little face. I never enjoy seeing anyone lose their job, although I’m sure he’d be fine). Same for Chris Young. Ask Charlie to take the reigns and, if he accepts (no guarantee he will), allow Charlie to adjust his coaching staff as he sees fit.. If you compare this team with the 2007 team, you can see the similarities, not just with the potential and talent, but with the ages (young teams). Charlie did very well at letting his guys play, was always positive, and led the team with that fatherly/grandfatherly approach. This team would respond well to that. They’d never quit on Charlie like they have this year with only a few games remaining. The players would go through walls for CM, as his players always have.
PLEASE!!!!
Upper management’s failure to address pitching needs going into the season (obsessed instead with the Harper sweepstakes), or injuries belong to Gabe? Absolutely not. That said, his on-field decisions have been a minus for this team and contributed to this season’s fiasco. His analytics dependency seems to be a big piece of the problem, and, frankly just doesn’t fit Philly. Needs to go, but my guess will be shielded by Klentak (who could also find another job).