Phillies owner John Middleton had the final say on last week’s firing of manager Gabe Kapler, whom he ditched despite disagreements from the club’s front office and some of its prominent players. Middleton polled members of the Phillies’ roster in regards to Kapler, and though the skipper received favorable reviews from the likes of Bryce Harper and J.T. Realmuto, it wasn’t enough to save his job.
Now, with the Phillies looking for a replacement for Kapler, Middleton’s reportedly surveying players again. This time, he’s seeking input on longtime manager Buck Showalter, according to Jon Heyman of MLB Network. With Middleton having indicated general manager Matt Klentak is leading the hiring process, it’s notable the owner seems to be taking on an active role in a coaching decision yet again. Back in August, a couple months before Kapler’s firing, Middleton made the call to replace hitting coach John Mallee with ex-Phillies manager Charlie Manuel.
The 63-year-old Showalter is currently one of three seasoned skippers the Phillies are honing in on, joining Dusty Baker and Joe Girardi. Showalter looks to have the strongest connection of the trio to Philly’s front office, which is run by former Baltimore executives in Klentak and president of baseball operations Andy MacPhail. In fact, it was MacPhail who hired Showalter to manage the Orioles in 2010. It proved to be a sound decision by MacPhail, as the Showalter-led O’s earned three playoff berths until his ouster last year. Klentak and MacPhail are still Showalter fans, if his status as a finalist for the Phillies’ job is any indication, but he has to win over Middleton as well.
Of the 3 rumored candidates, I think Showalter is easily the best just by looking at the team he took to the 2014 ALCS compared to the teams that Girardi didn’t take deep. I think this current Phillies team is a closer fit to the model of the successful Showalter O’s teams than to Girardi’s best Yankees teams.
For Girardi to last 10 seasons in NY speaks volumes. In my view main reason why the team replaced him was money. As good as he was, his cost value was beyond what owners felt was needed. It actually was the same way he got the job replacing Torre. The team each time replaced the manager for considerably less per year. I hope all three end up with another job as each to some extent or another will do their own thing as compared to simply being a yes man for management. As good as a baseball manager’s job is, none I believe want it bad enough to put up with all the travel and nonsense of today. Showalter especially is coming in to do it his way.
No it doesn’t. Yankee fans hated him for the get go.
The owner and gm spent tons of money to win and he was the mouth piece.
Girardi had the tools but I believe made the lineup unlike many managers today. Why did he really lose his job after leading a team that was not expected to win in 17 to game seven of the AL Championship? He overachieved in FL and was successful in NY. Again, in my view he was replaced because the team could not give a one year extension after 2017. If they tried, he would have embarrassed the organization, similar to what happened with Torre during his final negotiations. They had a choice of offering three years with raises or move on which is what they did. Does anyone really think Boone has gotten more out of the team collectively than Girardi did? I give Boonecredit given the injuries but in hindsight was Girardi wrong with his tough love approach on Sanchez? A
Cashman has overall built this foundation and in my view they’d be in the same spot right now with either man.
We can speculate and offer opinions on Girardi’s firing all we want, but Cashman said himself it was due to his (lack of) communication with players, and I don’t see how that’s improved since he was fired.
espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/21317291/brian-cashman-cit…
What did you really expect Cashman to say at the time? From what I recall it was mainly Sanchez and he wasn’t wrong. Sanchez is an overgrown, immature first baseman who catches because he was blessed with a golden arm. His bat has been inconsistent and in my view, I think if he were traded and either DHed or learned the art of 1B, he could blossom to be one of the most feared hitters around. The problem is he didn’t accept Girardi’s challenge so it’s questionable whether he’ll do the dirty work to improve at any position, As a catcher, he’s either to big to get down quickly to properly block low pitches, is still injured or just doesn’t put the work in to improve.
*For the English police, “too”.
Ok first off he wasn’t fired. His contract was not renewed. That is a big difference.
If he would have agreed to the meddling of the front office he would still be Yankee manager.
Girardi is not there any longer because of 1 reason. Brian Cashman’s ego.
He truly believes anybody should be able to manage the team that he builds.
Not that I believe Girardi was a good manager in NY. Managing in NY is like playin in NY its not for everybody. I don’t think it was for Joe. As a Brave fan I hope he gets the Met job.
Joe Torre all of a sudden didn’t become more knowledgeable about baseball because he got the Yankee manager job.
No he stroked egos and became a father figure to the young guys coming up. He knew how to handle the media.
That is the most important quality a NY manager needs to have and that is absorb some of the pressure the stars get from the media. To get guys to be able to perform at their highest levels while enduring the scrutiny of the media capital of the world.
Well said. Moving forward, and keep in mind Sanchez is going to get a lot more expensive starting in 2020, do you offer him a long term eight to nine figure contract? Will he reward that investment more than a Chirinos or Sandy Leon??
Having your contract renewed is another way of being fired. They don’t want you and you lose that job
Dewey:
People forget the Yankees did not win the division on 2017. The had 91 to Boston’s 93 or 94. Girardi lost his job because he didn’t win the division that year. They were in first place for a chunk of the season and really should have won the division that year.
It was not the playoffs or anything else. The decision related to Girardi was made because many in the organization felt he underachieved that season.
Steeler:
I am not a Cashman fan and we agree on him. I do think you are wrong regarding Girardi. He couldn’t connect with the younger players and that was evident when Judge was interviewed after they beat Cleveland.
The 2017 won 91 games and the WC and they should have won more and won the division. The Redsox fired Farrell even though he won the division because they underachieved. The Yankees had the division that year yet did not win it because of many Girardi decisions and his inability to run a young clubhouse. Todd Frazier was brought in to help with this because the young guys didn’t connect with him.
It was really time for Girardi to move on because this game has changed and no manager can remain effective in the same job for 10 years.
Excluding Bob Melvin?
Agree 100%. Whenever a team says it wasn’t about the money, that usually is what was about, and that’s what the Yankees said at the time.
@ripaceventura30
Please don’t let my Yankee fandom overshadow my words. I think Girardi would make a better candidate. He handled the NY media and I think Philadelphia media can be just as tough. He won a world series in 2009, something that no other candidate can say. He’s a really intelligent guy who also has that old school feel about him. I think he can command the respect of most of Phillies star players too. If he can handle big personalities like Arod then he can probably handle a guy like Harper too. He will hold guys accountable.
Agreed except Showalter’s “wisdom” is not surpassed. He stood up to George and often overachieved given the talent his team had.
I’m really tired of the narrative that Harper is a big personality that manager’s need to keep in line when by all accounts guys like Jake Arrieta and Nick Williams were the only outspoken egos in the Phillies clubhouse. That said, I am personally convinced that the 7 Hall of Famers on that 09 Yankees team won that championship and if Girardi was such a big factor then they should have won at least one more. I think Showalter did as well with much fewer resources.
Showalter oversaw some O’s teams that defied conventional wisdom & won a lot.
He also managed the worst Oriole team ever after almost a decade of his personal touch.
By that time however, the O’s were in full rebuild mode. Buck doesn’t sign the players, he has to work with what he’s got
Os refused to trade certain prospects that are now trash at the MLB level versus trying to build a contender in his final years.
So Heyman the insider is saying it will be either Showalter Girardi or Baker? Boy what a scoop.
Buck is the best candidate of all. And he scares me for the Philly job.
Middleton is out of his mind. This organization is doomed for the near future.
As long as the cancer merchant is going to meddle the Phillies aren’t winning anything
It might be the managers that pick who goes where, it’s a sellers market right now!
So the owner polled the players got favorable results on Kapler but fired him anyway….why bother if that was your intention from the start? Why would anyone want to manage for that owner?
Because the owner was not clouded by the subjectivity of the dugout and objectively didn’t like the track record of two September collapses under Kapler. This has been pretty well documented now. They are interviewing three top candidates as a replacement. This is not a bad situation unless all three get hired elsewhere or tell Middleton to pound sand. The latter outcome is not likely.
Kapler got favorable reviews from Harper & Realmuto, but not everybody. He didn’t get favorable reviews from the pitching staff or the latino players. There were more negative reviews than positives
Source for the negative reviews?
The outcome.
I live in PA (not a Philles fan) & NBC SportsPhilly and other media outlets had it on. The pitching staff hated his entirely analytical approach & Aaron Nola in particular was not a big fan. He refused to shake Kapler’s hand in the dugout at the end of the season. Latino players, namely Segura & Neris, voiced displeasure with Kapler’s handling of Maikel Franco. They felt that Kapler showed preference to Sean Rodriguez because they were former teammates. They didn’t buy the argument that Rodriguez was kept because he was more versatile because the Phillies already had Kingery & Miller who were quite versatile (and Gosselin in the minors). You can agree with Kapler’s decision or not, but when it splits your team, that isn’t a good thing at all.
Eric-That was awful small of Nola.
Franco has had plenty of chances to show that he deserves to start in the ML.
Seems like Segura and Neris want to be future managers.
Maybe this is a reason why Jean has bounced around so much.
It was as the owner’s call whether or not to keep Kapler but no manager is going to keep everyone happy.Kapler went out of his way to communicate( which he sometimes did not do very well).SRod was a good player with the Pirates before his auto accident and he fielded well at a number of positions.
It is the manager’s responsibility to explain his moves if questioned.Somebody is usually going to not like them.But you cannot let the players run the team.
Unless you want losing teams.
To be honest, McPhail really didn’t “hire” Showalter. The owner Peter Angelos did. McPhail was not amused. He stayed the year, but left before his contract was up the next year when his father became sick. Now, he’s caught in the same situation. A middling owner who won’t allow his baseball people to do their jobs. It will be interesting to see how McPhail, and ultimately Klentak, handle this situation, especially if Showalter gets hired again.
FYI, I’m an O’s fan, through & through. As much as I enjoyed the success the O’s had under Showalter, I’m glad he is gone. If he continues his pattern, there will be a power struggle between him and McPhail/Klentak, especially if he’s the owners choice, like he was in Baltimore. There’s a reason he never lasted more than 3 years with any team until he got to Balto. If he’s hired, enjoy the immediate success, but be prepared for the consequences.
Keep hiring and firing guy’s after two years there John. The Phillies aren’t going anywhere with an owner who continues to overstep his baseball department. How do you hold Klentak responsible for the result’s when ownership make’s all of the big baseball decisions?
He’s next if things stay mediocre. There’s no way Klentak isn’t on the hot seat for 2020. But it does not hurt to try a managerial switch this off-season and see how the quest for pitching acquisitions goes by MK. The problem with punting on GMs is that the strategic impact of change is further and wider. I don’t believe the Phillies are in a position to benefit from breaking things to that degree unless they slide someone in with a similar strategic goals and philosophies. For example if MacPhail thinks MK is a trash negotiator or talent analyzer and wants to find a better one of those while keeping most other strategic goals and the same then that would be fine. But most GM candidates would want to come in and institute their own mandates to some degree. It’s a lot more work for Andy MacPhail to do to find the right replacement that would work well with his vision for the team.
As a long time O’s fan, I’d love to see Buck back in the game, if for no other reason than to hear his post game interviews. The Phillies roster is so close, and I believe Buck could make a huge difference, especially in regards to their bullpen. It’s hard to call this a fault, but Buck’s biggest one is probably his loyalty to his players, to track record.
You’re not going to find someone that knows the game, loves the game more than Buck. He’s sorely missed in Baltimore, by fans and players. It’s about time that he adds a world championship to his resume, and hopefully he gets the opportunity to do so in Philly.
Nicely said. Buck is a great manager and I think the Phillies would fair well with any of the three candidates.
Problem with Buck (as good of a manager as he is):
If The Phillies hire him, it will appear to the fans that McFAIL hired his “yes man” and Buck is just another minion in McFail’s army. The fans want an Anti-Klentak/McFail manager. Buck will end up having have the same problem as Kapler I fear, in that he will never be accepted by the fanbase due to his history with McFAIL and the udder disdain Phillies fans have for McFAIL.
Sure, that has nothing to do with Buck as a person or manager, but it is what it is. Charlie Manueal shared a same fate initially when he was hired. It took winning a title for the majority of fans to embrace him the way he is today. It would take the same thing from Showalter I feel.
IMO (and according to quite a few Philly based comment boards) the Phillies fanbase will lose their collective minds if the hire is anyone not named Girardi.
Exactly. The fans will view a Showalter hire as a buddy hire by Klentak & MacPhail. NBC Sports Philly did a poll the other day among fans on who they want as the next manager & Showalter was last in the poll. I think the biggest reason for that is his connections to Klentak & MacPhail
Philly fans do not like anyone initially unless they are from this area or played for the Phillies.
Kapler was run out of town by them.
If Showalter wins they will like him.
Why wouldn’t MacPhail want to hire someone that he knows and respects.Otherwise,why do they need MacPhail?
Klentak must bring in,pitching and a bench this year or he will be out.
Next year could be a rare case where the GM goes and the manager stays since a veteran manager will be hired.
And Middleton should not let fan polls influence him in the slightest.
PADRES don’t have buck or girardi on short list….Preller is the problem.
In the words of Steve Carrell’s character from The Office “Please NO!! God, PLEASE NO!!”
Girardi. Showalter, Baker in that order. I think Girardi has the last 2ndary interview. It’s all for nothing if they don’t get a front line starter via FA or trade. They need to dump Hernandez, Franco, half the BP, 3 of the SPs. If they brought in Cole, your FA is over. If they bring in Wheeler, Keuchel, and Odorizzi that would be a solid offseason. Then bring up a 5th until Arietta comes back and bring up Specer Howard when he breaks down again.
Cole is not coming to Philadelphia.They need to get two new starting pitchers of the ones that you mentioned.Arrieta is no better than a #4 at this point.Valazquez is a good pitcher but clearly needs to be a long man in the bullpen.Pivetta needs to figure out that he is not a starter either.
The Phillies need to do what you suggest with the others and add some young relievers and good bench men.Only then will they contend no matter who the manager is.
Bryce Harper is unmanageable whoever the players choose as there manager.