The Braves are unlikely to “aggressively” pursue a Nolan Arenado trade as long as incumbent starter Josh Donaldson remains on the market, Jon Morosi of MLB Network reported on Saturday citing unnamed sources (link).
Yesterday, our own Steve Adams explored in detail the many obstacles impeding a potential Atlanta-Arenado connection. First, there is the $234MM remaining on the third baseman’s contract; the addition of that sum would push Atlanta’s payroll into historic heights moving forward, and the club’s lack of serious engagement on Anthony Rendon could signal that the Braves aren’t true players at such a price tag. Then, there are the logistical issues of Arenado’s no-trade clause, his ability to opt-out after 2021, and the fact that his contract is set to run through his age-35 season. Donaldson, often positioned as being a bit “old” for a premium free-agent, would only be 37 at the end of his reportedly sought-after four-year deal. All of this, of course, is before considering any potential prospect capital Atlanta may have to surrender in acquiring the Colorado cornerstone.
Today’s note would seem to lend credence to the idea that the Braves may simply prefer spending payroll capital in acquiring Donaldson. In an offseason that has seen Donaldson court a four-year contract and Arenado’s name enter the rumor mill, the two superstar third baggers have become more or less linked. While Kris Bryant has also loomed as a speculative trade fit for teams in need at the hot corner, a few clubs have possibly spent the last several weeks weighing the relative merits of acquiring either Donaldson or Arenado. For the moment, this report indicates that Atlanta has a clear order of preference in terms of which scenario they prefer at third, with Morosi suggesting that the team won’t actively court Arenado unless Donaldson signs elsewhere—making the former a rather premium “plan B”.
Still, Morosi said only that the team will not “aggressively” pursue Arenado, so the door remains open, in theory. As far as potential trade partners for the Rockies superstar go, few clubs could match up with the Braves in terms of young prospect capital. When your team is built around Ronald Acuna and Ozzie Albies, youngsters like Austin Riley, Drew Waters, and Cristian Pache can seem like downright luxuries. In Riley’s case, in particular, it’s hard to ignore that Atlanta seems rather intent on filling the third base spot where he would figure to offer the most long-term value–even if that’s just personal conjecture.
There is no person who wants Nolan to leave the Rockies more than Morosi
Don’t be a child, why would he care?
Morosi has a flawed sense of reality
It’s a joke.
People here really don’t seem to understand humor…
Calm down Frankie geez
So Riley had a pretty big regression after his hot start…. but I kinda just want to role with him. See what happens. I bet he ends up fine. Really it had the Swanson illness of chasing that outside junk. But if he can make that adjustment, I think he’ll be fine.
I’m hoping for the same thing. I like seeing teams using players they’ve developed themselves.
I would be very sad if the Braves moved Riley. I don’t think he’s ready yet and Riley should start the 2020 season at 3rd base for Triple-A Gwinett. If the Braves have to, Camargo should be the MLB 3rd base band aid until Riley gets there. A lot of people
Don’t realize that when Camargo was the starting 3rd baseman for the Braves in 2018, he had a higher WAR than ANY POSITION PLAYER on the entire Phillies roster. Camargo would have been the best position player on the Phillies! I think only Nola scored higher amongst Phillies player and he missed close to 80% of games since he was a starting pitcher. My point is that a guy that would have been the best position player on the entire Phillies roster less than 2 years ago (the end of 2018) should at least be considered as someone that can be a band aid until Riley figures out how to hit the slider so he can make his 12 homer a month NLB record become a reality. Riley will probably figure it out and his talent is far to great to give up on. Camargo will never produce like Donaldson did last season but man… Hebproducwd better than ANY Philly did the season before and lost his job. The Braves have both of those guys. Maybe the Braves sign someone like Castellanos to play right field and use a Duvalle, Markakis, Camargo,Riley quartet to fill third base and left field. I don’t know. I would almost rather it, though. Castellanos is more 6 years younger than Donaldson. Not the same player, buy right now the Braves need a “middle of the order bat.” I hope JD,Arenado, or Kris Bryant are the starting third baseman for the Braves next year. I don’t wanna give up toonuch though. Already assuming Soroka will at the very least stay as good as he was last season… The Braves need Hamel’s, Fried, and Foltewiecz to get better and that doesn’t even count who the #5 starter is: (Newcomb,Wright,Wilson’Anderson). I don’t know what to do guys. Half of me is confident and half of me is scared to death. Can someone please give me some advice as to how to look towards Tue Braves 2020 future? I have to be open and honest and I don’t know what yi think. I like the Braves compared to a lot of teams. Even teans that made big moves like the Angels, Phillies, Diamondbacks and Blue Jays. I’m always scared though. My Falcons are looking useless and I need some hope in my life. Can someone tell me my Braves are at the very least… One of the top 2 NL teams likely to make it to the World Series next year? I have to believe that to be happy. Only the Dodgers are more likely in the NL… Right?
The Dodgers are done, so yeah.
Just pray for Braves
“would have been the best position player on the entire Phillies roster ”
Teams that want to win aren’t using the Phillies as their benchmark.
There’s nothing more for Riley to gain at the minor league level, as he’s proved. He came to the bigs on fire, then the league adjusted and he didn’t. If he can’t make adjustments, he’ll just be another Francoeur.
Riley turns 23 in April. plenty of young players struggle in their first exposure to MLB pitching. There’s still time.
yeah as hard as it is to admit it, ^^THIS.
Cobra… Yes, a player that would be the best Philly position player is still considered a decent benchmark when being used as a backup option/ band aid player until a highly regarded prospect taken his place. Nobody is thinking Camargo will carry the Braves but using your logic, every position player on the 2018 Phillies roster was so bad that their mere existence on another teams roster would make that team so bad they wouldn’t be able to contend. The 2018 Phillies were about a .500 team. I am sure the best position player on their entire roster would at least be good enough to help a better team win a championship. Especially when that player is only expected to serve in a supportive band-aid role. The Phillies were about the same team win wise in 2019 and as much as I don’t think the Harper contract was good for the Phils, I have to admit that Bryce Harper should at the very least be a starting player on a major league club. Using your logic, Bryce Harper is so bad (just because he plays on the Phillies) that he doesn’t even deserve a roster spot as a band aid player on a contending team. That’s like saying Starling Marte shouldn’t even be in Major League Baseball because he plays for the Pirates and the Pirates suck. Bad teams can still have great useful players. The 2018 Phillies weren’t even that bad. They were a whopping 2 games below .500. I am sure the absolute best position player on a 79 win team is still good enough to help a better team win a championship. Especially when that player is only expected to be a supportive band-aid after proving he is good enough to be the best player on a middle of the road team.
I have no problem with playing Riley. However, the Braves would have to make another move to find a #4 batter unless they move Acuna to cleanup and Ozzie back to leadoff. Might work, but can’t ignore last two years of Acuna in lead off spot
On a separate note, I do believe Arenado would be option #2 ahead of Bryant. Bryant and Arenado would cost considerable prospects. I believe AA would cut loose with multiple top prospects for both. You have to hope for the full duration on Arenado contract.
In the end, the Braves are not gonna bet against themselves. I don’t think Donaldson has a legit 4 year offer. Braves will make competitive offer for something around 3/75 with mutual option for 4th year. If Donaldson wants to win and really enjoyed playing in Atlanta he would take a little less.
If im donaldson i go to nats with that rotation and lineup and be the missing piece to another title run.
He could also just as likely be the missing piece for Atlanta’s title run.
They had him last year and besides the young core getting a year older I don’t know they’ve done enough to simply bring back Donaldson alone at his age and expect to get over the hump. I think their game one starter in the playoffs has been officially subtracted as well. Not saying he was the number one I would have wanted but have they replaced him with anyone better. I don’t follow them closely so forgive me if I’m wrong but all I can recall of not is adding some needed help in the bullpen. If that’s it Atlanta is likely to have the same fate as last year if the Phillies don’t catch up
Game one starter now will most likely be Soroka, who should have been this year.
Yeah, the core is a year older… It’s also super young.
Braves already loafed the bullpen up. Nobody thought they would re-sign O’Day and even fewer people thought they would re-sign Chris Martin. They re-signed both and then added the best FA reliever on top of that (Will Smith on a 3 year $40 million deal). They still have Shane Greene and Mark Melancon on top of that. The Braves basically made trades to turn their terrible bullpen into the best bullpen in baseball last season and then kept all the pitchers they traded for while also signing the best free agent reliever in baseball (Will Smith) to be the cherry on top. The Braves bullpen is fine. I wouldn’t even be remotely shocked if the Braves had the best bullpen in all of baseball next year as is.
The Nationals had someone even better than Donaldson and they squandered many years before finally achieving success in the world series. The Braves can do the same thing.
Without Rendon that “lineup isn’t that impressive. The Braves lineup looks a lot better than that.
Y’all sleeping on KB. He was the league MVP at age 25?
He’s been banged up. Kid plays the game the right way. Maybe he belongs in LF, maybe 3B. But he’s about to get hot with 1-2 years til his contract.
Bryant is available for only 1-2 years, depending on how his grievance is settled.
I agree with all this. It’s not so much as the Braves need a 3rd baseman as much as they need a 4 hitter. Even if they sign Donaldson I still think they need a 5 hitter. Marte would be perfect. Not really expensive, shouldn’t cost a lot prospect wise and only 2 years remaining wouldn’t block Pache/Waters.
“If he can make the adjustment, I think he’ll be fine”
I mean…couldn’t you say that about most baseball players? lol
You can……but he has an issue with something that “has been fixed before”, so there’s a track record that fans hope he will follow.
Stanton had the same problem until he altered his stance, changed his “mental approach”, and he ended up hitting 59 Bombs that year (he changed his stance in May, I think……not before the season). I’m not saying “Riley can be Stanton”….but there’s a known fix for his issue.
Javier Baez dealt with a similar issue and has made serious improvements, although he still has some work to do.
Right, it’s a common problem that most young players have to fix to be successful.
Pache and Wright for Bryant.
I doubt the Braves trade Pache. Anyone else though I would think is on the table.
They don’t need to trade Pache with the farm they have. Waters would be untradeable on almost any other team.
Not Waters or Anderson.
Why would they trade those 2 for a declining player that they will just have to trade next year. Arenado maybe not Bryant IMO
I may be wrong, but I would guess that any trade with Bryant and Arenado would have Riley in it.
No one is going to want him. League figured him out, he’ll be out of the league within 2 years. He’s mike olt 2.0
Please tell us what else your crystal ball says and why you ain’t fronting an MLB scouting department right now
It seems like you watch baseball but the things you’re saying are so off that I’m not sure you understand baseball.
For anyone that’s followed Riley, he always had slow starts , made adjustments, and dominated league hitting before advancing. He got off to a torrid start and then hit his wall and didn’t have a chance to make typical adjustments. This was pointed out by AA in off-season interviews that they know this. They’ll get him ABs whether at AAA or eventually at ML level. He will be fine.
Run – I’ve 100% noticed that following him over the years, and as a matter of fact he mentioned it his self in an interview after the playoffs and said that he hopes to get the opportunity to show that he can do that in MLB too.
I think Riley is gonna be a fantastic player at some point given the glove ability at 3B, arm and power.
The bat to ball is there too, the guy just has trouble with identifying MLB breaking pitches. People on here are acting like that’s totally uncommon when that’s far from the truth.
Deal for a short term fix at 3b would not include Riley. It would serve as a bridge to Riley. If Braves have given up on Riley, their best 3b prospect, they might as well sign Donaldson to 4 yrs and include Riley in a trade for someone else, like a pitcher.
Huge overpay for Bryant.
Then pay Donaldson for 4 years of IL time
He’s had 1 injury plagued yr and people think he can’t stay healthy, total stupidity.
Actually, he had 2 shortened years in a row. 2017 (missed 49 games) and 2018 missed 110 games). So until he proved himself with a healthy 2019 season, people had every right to be skeptical.
Nobody will pay the Cubs a fortune for 2 years of Bryant. Get over it.
The last 49 games of 2017 and the first 110 of 2018. Don’t make it sound like he had 2 injuries in 2 consecutive years.
But they’re still being skeptical after 2019.
You’re wrong, Javia.
SoCal- I believe I said “shortened years”, which is accurate. I never claimed how many injuries caused these shortened seasons.
Huge overpay? Get real! These are prospects. Top prospects. But they haven’t done anything compared to Bryant. Right now they can’t hold his jock strap.
Riley, Waters, Anderson, Wright and Enciarte for Bryant and Quintana
You’re way overvaluing your players
Enciarte is terrible and owed 15 plus million dollars for the next 2 years. I think the Braves would be happy to find a taker for that. Riley is a pretty big question mark given his second half. So you are getting an MVP in his prime for 2 years (assuming the grievance is dismissed) and cost controlled 3rd or 4th starter for 3 very good prospects. I’m not saying the Cubs are getting ripped off or anything, but to say that the OP is “way overvaluing” “his” players seems pretty disingenuous. .
Most people who don’t literally have ATL in their user name would probably disagree with your assessments. Especially your rock solid scouting report on Bryant.
That’s close to right. Lefties that throw 150+ innings per year, coming off a +3.0War don’t grow on trees. Quintana holds value in that deal as well.
Dude, I’m a huge fan of both Bryant and Quintana, but that is a huge overpay and Inciarte isn’t terrible either.
Most of his value comes from CF defense, yeah, but it’s elite defense and when healthy he’s posted league average offensive numbers. He’s a 3fWAR player. No, he should have never hit leadoff but that’s on Snitker. He’s a solid piece on most any team, they don’t have to be offensive superstars to be a good player.
“Enciarte is terrible ”
That’s the part of your post that is spot on.
What the same way your overvaluing the Braves “PROSPECTS”?
The Braves are in a win now and theres no way that any of those 4 players value is higher than Bryants or Quintana’s. Go ahead and hold onto all those Prospects and the Braves will never win a WS
Given the Braves financial restraints compared to Chicago, yeah, they just might be.
Even the media claimed that asking price for Bryant was astronomical. Just because Epstein asks for that in return doesn’t mean it’s indicative of their actual value.
If Braves did trade for Bryant it would be less for what Cubs current asking price is-
Cubs are desperate to get rid of salary-
Would probably only take 2 out of the 4 and a lesser Prospect
Braves would like to win now but are not in a win now desperation mode. Acuna is 22. Their best pitcher Soroka is 22 and the farm is loaded. So Braves are in it for the long haul.
The Braves might, MIGHT pay that much for Clevinger and Lindor. Bryant and Quintana? Not even close.
No AA would go get an Ozuna type player to put in the OF and platoon Riley/Camargo at 3B and platoon Markakis/Duvall at the other corner OF spot and you still have ender also I like that way better than overpaying with prospects
@ cubsfan. AA laughs hysterically than hangs up the phone!
No he doesn’t. Because he’s a professional. He knows he needs to keep all lines of communication open throughout MLB to be successful. And when it comes down to playing Johan Comargo or Kris Bryant with the team they have and their window being NOW….he may overpay. The market determines that. If JD signs elsewhere, the Rox hang onto Arenado, etc.. it all depends on who has all the cards…..
Obviously you havent seen the bad trades that AA made when he was in Toronto
And obviously you haven’t paid attention to his work since he left Toronto. He’s even said his self he learned a lot with the Dodgers and doesn’t operate the same way anymore… And if you would have paid attention, it definitely has shown in his work with Atlanta. Of course, you could always go yell at some more clouds since nobody is willing to give up half their roster for KB or JQ.
I do follow his work, and yes he has done a great job in ATL so far. But like the Cubs the Braves are in the same situation, maybe not this year but will be in 3 or 4 yrs. How you going to pay ALL those young players? Your Not-
And thats why Cubs are looking to possible trade the likes of KB, Contreras and possibly Schwarber.
For 1-2 yrs of Bryant? You wish.
Braves surely aren’t stupid enough to trade Pache and Wright for 1-2 years of Bryant.
Atlanta fans… Bryant has a higher WAR, 27.8, than Arenado, Donaldson and Rendon from 2015-2019. He’s been Rookie of the year, MVP and has 4 years of playoff experience and a WS win. 2 years of Bryant will be cheaper than any of the other 3 and on top of that, he’s a high character guy. So please, the Bryant’s “way over rated ” stuff just isn’t true. If the Braves want him, it will cost a serious package of talent.
The Braves should keep Pache and Waters and deal the pitchers. The Braves have the money to sign a top-of-the-rotation starter.
The Greg Maffei problem must be dealt with.
Two years of a former mvp aren’t gonna be free
Cubs didn’t even ask for Pache. They did ask for Waters, who, like Pache, can play all 3 OF positions. Cubs asked for 3 of Riley, Waters, Anderson, Wright.
First, makes no sense for Braves to trade Riley for 1-2 yrs of Bryant because they have no other 3b prospect of that level. If they trade Riley, might as well sign Donaldson to 4 yrs.
Second, I hope AA doesn’t even include 2 from the list, just 1 and a prospect of lesser rank OR 1 from the list and another player, which MAY include Newcomb or Ender as examples. Remember that Braves farm is loaded, so lesser rank prospect would be higher rank on another farm
On that contract Arenado doesn’t really have any excess value. I don’t know why the Braves would give up anything to get him.
Exactly. You aren’t giving up a big haul for Arenado given his big contract and opt out. That is unless Colorado eats some of his salary.
Vandals Took The Handles
According to Spotrac – which basically covers contracts – Nolan Arenado can opt out after the 2021 season.
which jyoung mentioned
Vandals Took The Handles
The article says the opt out is in 5 years.
2 years vs. 5 years is quite a different consideration for a team thinking about trading for him.
He will be 31 in the following April of his first season after opt out. I know he’s good, but he’s not going to leave $180 million on the table. Nobody is going to give him $200 million in his 30’s, Unless he pulls a Bumgarner, but even then he will command $150-$`180 million minimum and I just don’t see the Dodgers or anyone else giving that to a 31 year old. He’s not opting out.
Vandals Took The Handles
Strasburg just opted out at 31 and had plenty of suitors.
Yeah he has plenty. On a conservative calculation at least $50-60m. Which doesn’t account for the opportunity given by concentrating 6 or so wins in one roster spot. He would require a very significant haul.
Bryant is the move if they can get him for 2 years, the Arenado contract is crazy, and Donaldson is on the back end with more risk for 4 years.
The contract might be what is attractive in a sense to the Braves (me strictly thinking outside the box and ultimately agree with u). But theoretically that high contract might be worth a lot to the Rockies simply getting it off their books. Think Staton off the marlins books and the return the marlins got from the Yankees. It was basically nothing when you boil down to it. So maybe the Rockies would be willing to take say just Riley and maybe Ender’s contract) just to get that mega deal off their books.
Speaking of Stanton, whew, thank God that happened or Arenado would have already been in pin-stripes
You are correct theres not a huge excess value on Nolan – Riley Ender and someone in your 5-10 range (most likely an arm ) would do it- Bryant would take a whole lot more
Right. I would love to have Bryant, but we would probably be able to get Arenado for less contract cost… And I’m not gonna lie, I would be a fan of the length of the contract if we got him just because I know otherwise we’d never bid like that on a free agent and his defense is incredible.
Supposed to read acquisition cost lol
Would not be that bad if Colorado kicked in 20million for 2020.
The Arenado rumor doesn’t make sense to me unless there is some creative talk going on between Braves/Rocks/Arenado. Either Braves trade for Arenado with understanding that it’s 2 years or so to bridge to Riley or they have some long term arrangement where Braves find a way to reduce overall cost. Those options seem like heavy lifting to me.
“On that contract Arenado doesn’t really have any excess value.”
Arenado added to that young core would put the braves in position for a 5 year+ run. I’m still not sold on braves young pitching but that offense would be scary.
No it wouldn’t! Arenado is not the same player away from Coors.
Most players in general play better at home, not just Colorado players. His overall numbers wouldn’t change much at all most likely. Let’s not forget, he also played a ton of games in LA, SD, and SF which are notorious pitcher’s parks. His power numbers are basically the same across the board. It’s an overblown notion that he would struggle on another team.
.324/.380/.615 at home.
.265/.323/..476 on the road.
Decent numbers but not exactly worth 35 mil per year and 3 top 50 prospects.
.800 OPS on the road, Gold Glove defense. If that’s the Braves fourth best player, yeah, that kicks their window open.
Donaldson was better last year.
The more Phillies fans you encounter online the more you understand how John Middleton gets away with what he does.
Not sold on Soroka?
Mookie Betts and Raphael Devers to the Braves for Acuna. BOOM!!
So deal Acuna who is still improving and already a superstar when he is signed for 7 seasons wayyyy below market value for mookie who is a 1 year rental unless you pay him 300 million or close to that? And devers is going to have to be paid too
That did not even deserve a response
Yeah that’s either a homer proposal from a delusion Red Sox fan or a comment made for a reaction. No offense to Red Sox fans we all have our own group of people who we’d rather not claim
Ha yup. We have some embarrassing groups of Braves fans on these sites too… Seems like all of our more rational fans are on sites like Talking Chop lol
Boom what? Just a silly suggestion to trade Acuna for Betts and Devers
Are you joking?
Yes. It was a joke.
The classic baseball writers bs. One makes something up the next says it’s not true. Anything to pump up their ratings. Any person halfway paying attention knows Arenado is very unlikely to go to ATL
The Braves want Donaldson & Donaldson wants the Braves. Give him 3 yrs with an easily attainable 4th year with a high buyout. See if he bites.
With what Arenado costs & what the Cubs are asking for Bryant I believe Donaldson for 4 yrs would be the better bargain at this point.
If you give Donaldson a real high buyout in the 4th year you are kind of defeating the purpose
Meeting in the middle
I haven’t heard what the Cubs are seeking for Bryant but his value seems hard to gauge. My guess is they don’t get an offer to their liking and someone else gets moved. The Cubs are open for business not just for Bryant. I heard some mention prospects but the only way I see that is if those prospects are soon flipped. The Cubs are trying to subtract so they can add. I could see moving Bryant as a preferred scenario to do that but the market may dictate another approach
Reported by CubInsider yesterday 3 outta 4 of Anderson, Wright, Waters & Riley
That’s never gonna happen. Probably 1 of those 4 and some others.
Wrong. It would at least have to be 2 of those
I could see Wright and Waters being offered, even though AA really has seemed hesitant to move Wright in the past.
I don’t see them giving up Riley for just two years or Bryant though (Arenado would maybe be different, but not sure with the opt out risk)… And I think they’re too high on Anderson to move him unless it’s a trade for like a top end ace.
Possibly 1 of those 4 for 1-2 yrs of Bryant except Riley. Bryant would be a bridge to Riley. If Riley isn’t a long-term solution for 3b, then sign Donaldson to 4 yrs and keep all their prospects for use in other trades or on the roster at some point.
Let Arenado in Colorado. His splits make it pretty clear you don’t want him if you’re not the Rockies.
So wrong it’s not funny. Every wants to point at Coors for inflating his numbers but no one brings up that he also plays 30 games a yr in pitcher’s parks like LA, SD, and SF. Plus, most hitters are comfortable at home. They get used to the batter’s eye, how the park plays, etc. I’d be willing to bet money if he went to ATL, he’d be a .290 hitter, with a high obp, and drive in 100+ with continued amazing defense.
Good points, dtd_atl. It would take a couple of games away from Coors field just to get use the sharp breaks on curves and sliders for road games.
So he plays 132 games in hitters parks like Coors plus the other road games other than LA SF or SD so your point makes no sense
Not every other game is in a hitter’s park. Anyways, that’s a guaranteed month of games where you’re not only playing outside of your comfort zone but in stadiums where everyone typically struggles. It’s the same thing for relievers. Even in limited games, all it takes is a couple of bad ones to make it look like a bad season.
Yup you probably said the same last year about DJ Lemahieu who I was pleading for my Dodgers to sign
Man, let’s be real.. I’m not worried about his road splits at all. I think he’ll hit very near his home numbers with another team. Most players hit less on the road wherever they are.
And even if he did… I’d take that road production with his defense at the hot corner regardless. I think y’all are blowing the road/home splits out of proportion
It’ll probably be disappointing when they end up with Colin Moran.
I think he has a good year in him. When that will be, no one knows.
The Rangers need to go get Donaldson right now, enough with trying to pry Arenado from the Rockies cause’ it ain’t happening. Then the Braves can go get Arenado, but i’ve heard talks have actually slowed for Arenado, so then just get Bryant (after his contract agreement is reached).
Might be nice to sign Donaldson and cross fingers that Riley matures. Why does it have to be one or the other? If Riley blossoms, keep him in OF or trade Donaldson down the road. There are always teams interested depending on output. If they both crap out, well, then you just had bad luck.
Dabofus going to the Padres game
1. Kyle Seager and Mariners pay down contract for prospects
2. Colin Moran from the pirates
3. Astros just lost SP. Could trade for Toro and send mlb ready pitching in return.
4. Jonathan Villar. Marlins probably be willing to deal him.
5. Bote from the Cubs. Send Cubs pitching help.
6. Go big. Get lindor Bryant correra arrenado merrifield or resign Donaldson. Move people around depending who you acquire.
Colin Pache Or Drew Waters for Ke’Bryan Hayes
Drew Waters Bat
Who is that?
Drew Waters Bat
I was asking about Hayes? But is bham for Bama? Or bacon and ham? I must know this also on top of the Hayes.
Drew Waters Bat
After watching him for 5 minutes. Pass, keep Hayes. Young and unpolished. Better off keeping Hayes with the Pirates. Pache and Waters for him seems like it is a down trade for those 2. Surely their ceilings are much much higher.
Bham is short for Birmingham, also known as “The Ham”. Hayes is the Pirates 3B prospect, who is ranked lower than either Colin Pache or Derek Waters.
Drew Waters Bat
So it’s a town in Alabama. Then I was partially right. Why you do that to their names? Whatcha got against Christian and Drew?
Dont be like them.
I was poking fun at the OP, who couldn’t get Pache’s name right. I don’t want to trade Cristian or Drew, but I’d be happy to trade Colin or Derek.
Drew Waters Bat
Ahhh. The ol not there switch a roo.
If we are going young than may as well keep Riley. He projects to be better no way you move either of them for Hayes.
there is no such person as “Colin Pache”
The Braves should be interested in Kyle Seager as well.. The money he would be owed if traded would range from 53-58 million depending on incentives, as I understand it. He would be under contract through the 2022 season.
Seattle doesn’t need to trade Seager, but if they don’t see him being a part of the next contending Mariners’ team, it would make sense to move him. They’d have at least a year to find a replacement, probably two.
Why would they be interested in a lesser player who still doesn’t solve the problem of no cleanup hitter? Plus, they’d be way too heavy on left handed hitting.
That “lesser player” is arguably the third best defensive third baseman in baseball and does hit middle-order. They would be trading some offense for more defense, but his value is unique, hence the speculation over him being traded.
If Atlanta misses out of Donaldson, do you think they’re going to hand the job to Riley, or that they’re going to absorb Arenado’s monster deal AND cough up elite prospects? There aren’t a lot of options, yet there’s considerable demand and Atlanta seems reluctant to lean of internal options.
But what makes you think Atlanta is too lefty-heavy? They have 3: Freeman, Markakis and Inciarte. Albies and Camargo are switch-hitters. Waters is a switch-hitter as well. and Pache bats right.
Left handed hitting heavy???? Bro, at least be familiar with the potential line-up before making that statement. You’re making us Braves fans look stupid.
Point is that Braves would prefer a RH power bat behind Freeman.
Sea would LOVE to trade Seager…. if Kyle agrees to (semi) waive the 3rd year if traded it will make it much easier and fruitful for Sea (though they aint getting much, the real prize is they’d be clear of all bad contracts next yearafter they dont let Dees vest this year
I don’t think Kyle would (nor should) waive his 2022 option, but I don’t think that’s much of a hurdle, anyway. It only maxes out if he’s performing well, which would obviously be a good thing. They might not get a stellar return without eating money, but I would guess that Jerry’s more interested in saving cash. We saw that with NY acquiring EE. Tampa apparently offered Solak for EE, but wasn’t willing to eat as much of EE’s salary, and now it seems pretty clear that Seattle is going to have to eat most or all of Gordon’s salary.
I think Texas and Washington are better fits for Seager, but Atlanta’s right up there as well. They don’t seem keen on sacrificing prospects and acquiring Seager might be more about cash.
I’m sure Donaldson is everyone’s preferred choice, but I could easily see a market for Seager heating up once he’s off the board.
I was thinking that myself. I would think Seager would be the perfect fit for Washington and am surprised they have not jumped on him yet.
What about if the Giants paid down some of Longoria’s contract ???
As a Giant fan I think that could happen. But a lot of other things have to happen first: Donaldson signing, Bryant trade, Seager trade.
I actually believe the Giants had a deal in place last July but then Longoria suddenly goes on the DL with a foot injury; I don’t think Longo wanted to be traded, he’s a California guy and would prefer to stay in SF for the next 3 years. Just a conspiracy theory but he was hitting the ball great in July then all of a sudden he’s hurt? I don’t think so.
I have had episodes of Plantar fasciitis and they last much longer than 1-2 months. The only thing that literally helps is getting off your feet. That injury seemed odd to me as well.
Hoping Farhan is able to pull off something like that. Longoria wasn’t that bad last year.
He wasn’t that bad in 2018 either. He missed 1.5 month because of a broken hand and when he returned everyone was gone or injured. Posey, Sandoval ( season ending injuries ) Mcutchen (traded) Belt’s leg hanging from a thread. He literally had no protection around him for the last 2 months of 2018.
Riley is better then Longo
Whoa there, simmer down. I think most of Braves country loves Riley, but he has yet to have a year like Longoria.
I don’t disagree that the Braves aren’t seriously players for Arenado
But I would say the opt out clause makes it more likely, not less likely. It’s still very unlikely regardless but I find it curious the article knocks the large lump sum as one reason the Braves don’t fit then turn around and try to use the opt out as a negative too (which would save the Braves money on the back end if he did)
I’d say the opt out would be viewed as a positive for the Braves since they typically don’t like contracts that long term. Even if it means he’s still producing at the time of the opt out.
If the Braves want Donaldson and he wants the Braves why isn’t a deal done?
I think AA doesn’t really want Donaldson back, at least not for the 4 years at $20M per that’s been talked about. And I think other teams with a need at third base recognize this so they’ve backed off on their interest and won’t be used as leverage.
When it’s all said and done I think Donaldson gets 4 years at $72M and it will come from the Rangers. They need to make a splash and will be the only team offering 4 years at a rate he can live with.
AA is holding strong on 3 yrs and Donaldson knows he got 3 teams minimum he can get 4 from.
Lots a game of chicken now. See who caves 1st.
If I were the Twins I would be focused on Castro and trying to get a SP.
Prefer that he just use his jedi mind tricks and get Trevor Story along with Jon Gray for Touki,Riley,ender and Wright
Dave you answered your own question
And what will the Braves do?
Todd Frazier for a year if you don’t sign Donaldson had would year just cost money I
Think the Cards would trade Carpenter.
Arenado is substantially better than Rendon. Just because they didn’t think Rendon was worth the money doesn’t mean they believe Arenado isn’t. Two different players.
Don’t be afraid of the 4th year for Donaldson. We’ve got such value in the Acuna and Albies contracts that we should be willing to take reasonable chances like this in order to win while the window is open. It’s not like giving some guy 10 years/340 mil. Of course if you can negotiate an option for year 4, great, but if not, just do it.
Of course, it’s not my money…
I believe that the main reason Braves haven’t signed Donaldson to 4 yrs is because they are looking for a short term bridge to Riley at 3b
What they should do is go after Lindor and Clevinger and let Riley-Camargo play de 3rd base
Or move Swanson to third
Either give Donaldson the 4th year or make the move for Bryant(and maybe Quintana). Arenado will cost top prospects and majority of the contract. If the report was true of the cubs ask than make the deal. Especially if you keep Anderson. Waters is expendable with Pache and I’m not as high on wright. Riley I think will be good but not Bryant good. If your the cubs though I think you have to hold for Anderson.
I say forget about Arenado or Bryant and look at Trevor Story and play him at 3B.
Trade for Trevor Story and play Dansby freakin Swanson over him at short? Yeah right. Anyway; Swanson would be the Rockies SS in this scenario.
I loje that idea and it may be what AAhas up his sleeve
I don’t think the Rockies would want Dansby
Story’s power plays better at 3B but if they want him as part of the deal no objections
Drew Waters Bat
Get Moran and Bryan Reynolds from the Pirates.
Dear other teams,
PLEASE SIGN DONALDSON ALREADY!
Who would you like for the Braves to play at 3B? And what would you like for them to do with their remaining money?
Ideally, go after Clevinger. Trade whatever they require for him and maybe Lindor. The rotation is still my priority.
Strictly speaking about filling a hole at third, trade for Bryant.
They would basically be giving up the farm on 2 guys that would be out the door soon, horrible idea.
Drew Waters Bat
Clevinger or maybe Clevinger and Jose Ramirez. There is going to be a huge over pay for Lindor that just seems ill advised. Clevinger has more control on the books, a bit more worth the overpay.
Getting both Lindor and Clevinger would destroy the farm system. Gives a power bat at 3rd to back up FF in Ramirez.
With Anderson on the way.
That is filthy.
It kinda sucks for the Braves because soon they will have the log jam with Pache and Waters coming up which makes even more difficult to decide how to improve better on the short term in the outfield unless Pache or Waters gets moved to Cleveland in the deal. Which one of them would have to be.
Say Clevinger and Ramirez for Waters or Pache, Wright, Bryce Wilson, Contreras, Riley and a low level to even it. Feels like Cleveland might not be able to turn that away. Got to overpay to get Clevinger.
One of Waters/Pache will be traded. No way should they hold on to both. The Braves should make it a priority to improve their rotation further, even if it means trading Waters/Pache.
As for your idea, I will do it. More realistic as well.
Ramirez is controlled for 4 years on a very team friendly deal. The Braves are not getting Ramirez. I don’t believe the Indians are shopping Clevinger. His name is out there because a Dodgers’ reporter put it out there. He has 3 years of control and is priced very cheaply this year. Cleveland won 93 games last year despite many injuries. They plan to contend in 2020. Cleveland would say no to your offer Drew.
I disagree. The Indians will trade Lindor, Clevinger, Ramirez at the right price. They don’t need to trade any of these guys, but they are available. The Braves have the farm to acquire all these guys if they want. Other teams have prospects to acquire one of these guys.
If the Braves are truly making Clev available, the Braves need to be all over him. Bring back JD, and the offseason is complete. The team has a legit chance to be the best team in the NL.
Take off your Braves colored glasses and look at things from the Indians perspective. They won 93 games last year despite many injuries. They are not going to sell out on 2020 and sell out for just prospects. That is not how the Cleveland front office operates. Read up and learn about a team, before you spout off. Yes, they may trade Lindor, but it will be for a specific package that provides controllable MLB ready players and prospects that will help in 2020 and beyond. I expect Lindor to play SS for the Indians in 2020. I will be totally stunned if they trade Clevinger and they are not trading Ramirez.
I am very aware that the Braves need a 3B because I do read up on other teams, but the Indians are not trading Ramirez.
braves fan since 1968
look sign him to 4 years
the dh is coming to the NL in year 3 of contract
JD is absolutely loving this dance. And AA knows that he is going to have to pay to play. It is such fun watching this game unfold within the game. Proceed gentlemen
Between this and watching paint dry, your days must be action packed.
Braves have four options…..
sign Donaldson for four years…….half of his time will be on the DL
trade for Arenado……which will get the Braves into financial trouble down the road…..but I doubt very much this trade would happen….
trade for Bryant….and he will last only two years before he signs with the Dodgers or Phillies later on….
keep Riley at third……cross your fingers and hope for the best.
People keep forgetting Camargo. He had a bad season last year which might be due in part to losing his everyday role to Donaldson, but he finished the season strong. At the very least I’d platoon Camargo and Riley together at 3rd. It probably won’t add up to 6 WAR, but it wouldn’t be too far off I’m betting.
Riley’s another one who slumped at every level of the minors and then took off later in the season. I’m thinking he’ll be ok in the longrun. If his bat had shown some life in September we wouldn’t even be speculating about Donaldson right now.
That platoon wouldn’t really work.
Camargo crushes lefties but doesn’t hit righties very well at all, and Riley is right handed lol
You could still play Riley against right handed hitters and let Camargo gets his ABs against lefties
Not a conventional platoon but the alternative is Riley every day, which means he sees the righties anyway. Might as well capitalize on Camragos LHP success if that’s the case.
Although I have to say, Camargo didn’t have bad splits in 2018 when he was playing every day. People need to stop comparing last year. It’s apples to oranges. If he was playing every day it’s difficult to say what would happen but the data point you should look at is 2018 since it’s the closest match.
Riley was really bad vs RH pitchers….problem with outside slider. So a platoon of Camargo/Riley would have to be Camargo vs righties and Riley vs lefties.
It’s always been kinda known that Camargo struggles against righties, I’m not just referencing last year. He has some pop from the left side of the plate sure, but his bat to ball isn’t as good.
My preference there, if we’re rolling with what we got… Assuming Riley does well in ST, give him the 3B start and have Snit actually utilize Camargo as a super utility regularly as was intended last year. Camargo wasn’t given regular playing time at all. But he could essentially rotate all over the field rest everybody four days a week, keeping guys like Freddie rested, while getting his bat in the lineup. Remember he can play at least passable anywhere but CF (he sucks on the OF corners and is slow, but he can do it passably and has a rocket arm.. if we’re facing a lefty that day, his bat is probably worth the defensive risk)
If Riley struggles and Camargo doesn’t, use Riley as a 3B/1B/COF utility and put Camargo at the hot corner full time. Riley probably wouldn’t get as many starts in a utility spot as Camargo just due to less defensive experience around the field, but by all means.. if one is swinging, let them earn the spot. If they both are, float them around and get their bat in. They both can play the infield and outfield corners, and Camargo can play SS/2B.
This still leaves us with our original problem though in that we won’t have a cleanup bat… Unless Riley starts playing to his potential right away, which I doubt happens regardless of how highly I think of his ceiling.
If we weren’t contending, especially in a division with Washington, I wouldn’t care so much about having a cleanup bat and would just say let the kids play. But we are and we need one. Our offense last year was scary and our biggest asset, but once you remove Donaldsons production the lineup suddenly gets very thin… Especially if Riley or Camargo don’t rebound to their previous levels and if Markakis/Duvall show more regression… All of which is very likely.
Have those things happen and we’re an injury to one of our core players away from having a 4th place season.
Also, don’t forget… Camargo is excellent defensively at 3B, but so is Riley, and they both have canon arms. If we roll with them, it will come down to whoever hits.
If Donaldson does sign with the Braves……Phillies, Rangers & Nats will go after Bryant……,,,Phillies might be his landing spot.
How the NL East is at now. for 2020 finish…..
Put the bong down and step away… your brain is officially fried.
Us Braves fans should not be discounting Washington like this.
Everyone was screaming about Phillie last year, yet I was more concerned with the Nats than I ever was with PHI from day one and that remains to this day. They are an incredibly talented team, and their rotation is insane. Absolutely insane. We are going to need everything to break right for us to win the division again.
Not to mention, PHI may show a bit of improvement with their new manager as well. No disrespect meant to Kapler, but I thought he hurt them more than he helped them
N.L. East 2019 Pythagorean W-L Standings:
Nationals 95-67, 873 Runs, 724 Runs Allowed
Braves 91-71, 855 Runs, 743 Runs Allowed
Mets 86-76, 791 Runs, 737 Runs Allowed
Phillies 79-83, 774 Runs, 794 Runs Allowed
It’ll be the Camargo/Rileg platoon. All this is just noise.
Clueless. Go watch some football with the rest Neanderthals
Echoing Gabe Burns, if you look hard enough you’ll always find a reason not to invest in a player. At some point, if you say no to this person’s price tag or that team’s trade demands you end up with nothing but a bunch of prospects in a perpetual state of “wait til this guy comes up in the next year or two.”
Whether it’s Bryant’s defense, Arenado’s contract, or Donaldson’s age, if the Braves don’t get one of those three the offense suffers.
Now I’m of the opinion the Rockies aren’t serious about trading him; they just recognize the demand outweighs the supply and know they’ll have to move the contract at some point so they’re at least asking if teams would take the contract and surrender a prospect haul.
If it were a trade, I’d go as high as Riley and Wright for Arenado and some cash. There isn’t a lot of surplus value attached to Arenado especially with the opt out. Two players with full control that can help in 2020 along with getting the contract off the books is a fair deal imo.
It’s not that the Rockies are serious, it’s that Arenado has a no-trade clause.
Well said, Brandon.
Maybe make a trade with Seattle Seager to cover 3b for a couple years till they figure that position out and get Haniger for good control
Hard pass on Seagar.
Arenado would never waive his no-trade out of Coors. Nor opt out at 31 due 33 million AAV for 5 more years.
Of course he’ll opt out in two years if he sustains the success he’s currently having, because he would get more money.
This may not be popular amongst Rockies Fans, but here goes.
Arenado will definitely opt-out if the Rockies don’t make a run at at Championship. He already has a ton of money, and He Probably Wants A RING.
He’s made $61.5 Million to date, and will earn another $70 Million before he can opt-out. That’s $131.5 Million
At the end of the 2021 season, he’ll be 30 years old (turns 31 on April 16, 2022).
He’ll be giving up a 5/$164M contract (per Spotrac), and there’s just No Reason why he couldn’t get that “Same Amount From A Contender”……at just 30 yrs old.
Nobody will pay the Cubs a fortune for 2 years of Bryant. Get over it.
Hey Braves fans, what about Newcome for Simmons? You can move Swanson to third. The Angels get pitching depth. The Braves get Simmons back.
Angels are not trading Simmons for a number 4 starter at best. Angels are trying to win right now.
I think all of us would make that trade in a heartbeat and for that very reason….it ain’t gonna happen lol
Your plan of moving Swanson to third makes absolutely no sense.
Yeah, Swanson is pretty damn good defensively at SS .. but I don’t think his arm would play very well at 3B, not to mention you’d be tanking his value by moving him to an offensively oriented position.
Are the Angels weary of Simmons or do they just need pitching that bad?
Simmons is a FA after next season. The Angels can move Fletcher to short. So it would only make sense, for the Angels to trade Simmons now. Rather than hold onto him and get nothing back after he leaves. He has said that he willing to sign an extension, but the Angels are loaded with young middle infielders.
If the braves want a World Series they need an number 1 starter (Soroka is not an ace). Braves don’t have 1 starter better than the Nats 1-3. They also need a power bar. Get neither, they probably won’t make the playoffs. Get 1 of the 2 and you’re looking at another early exit from the playoffs.
Donaldson and his stupid agents are going to drag this past February even though the market is already set with Rendon and Moustakas off the board.
If they do…..He could end up taking less money (like JD Martinez) just to be on a team
Clearly he’s not going to do that, or he would have already signed with the Braves.
He’s already said he’s not taking less money for that. Only contenders are gonna sign a guy like him anyway due to his age.
He said he prefers ATL but isn’t gonna take a hometown discount. and I kinda don’t blame him. He’s 34 and it’s his first fair shot at a big payday. He was coming off an injury last season and wasn’t going to be able to net a large contract.
I’m a Phillies fan and think the Braves would have been much better served signing Bumgardner and playing Riley at third. Donaldson had a great year last year but that was coming off missing half of the games for the previous two. I wouldn’t invest a ton of money in him unless he was willing to sign a two year contract.
I think Braves have resisted a 4 yr deal for Donaldson because they wish to move Riley to 3b when Donaldson is gone (after 3 yrs presumably), assuming Riley progresses. If they get Donaldson, Riley can play LF until Pache/Waters are ready in a year or 2. This is my guess on the thinking of GM. But if they don’t sign Donaldson, then Riley will be at 3b and grow on the job. They will then likely seek a RH OF with some pop to hit behind Freeman
Arenado would be great to be sure, but I’d rather have Donaldson because I think we should use the prospects for other trades.
So sign Donaldson, and then go after either Trey Mancini (BAL) or Jorge Soler (KC).. Think of that lineup.
As far as pitching, the Clevinger talk is interesting, but given the choice I’d rather trade for Luke Weaver (ARI) or Brandon Woodruff (MIL). Even Matthew Boyd (DET) would probably bring a better bang for the buck in terms of what he would bring compared to the prospects we would trade away.
Another option would be to get both Mancini and John Means from Baltimore, though Baltimore would have to have a pretty high price for Means with so many years of control left.
Marte makes the most sense to me. Cheaper only 2 yr commitment and won’t cost what the 3rd basemen will., Carmago and Riley split time at 3rd and left.Let Freeman hit 4th and RA 3rd.RA in right and Marte in Center.
News out today is Braves have offered Donaldson 4 yrs, and he is waiting for a bigger offer. Twins could go 5 years and move him to DH at some point. Nats might offer more than 25 mill/yr because they have no prospects to make other trades.
If JD passes on 4 years from the Braves now it is time to move on, maybe get another big bat in the OF and let Camargo and Riley platoon. Braves need to be clear now they will move on if this is to be a bidding war. I like JD but even 4yrs is a gamble with his health history.
Spare Tire Dixon
At this point, if they can’t get Donaldson, I would not mind seeing them swipe Marte from under the Mets’ noses. Trade with PIT for Marte, try for another SP (Ray?), and start the season with Riley and Camargo at 3B. If Riley can’t get it done, pursue a trade during the season.
One of Marte or Acuna can lead off while the other hits 3rd. Albies in between.
1. Marte, CF
2. Albies, 2B
3. Acuna, RF
4. Freeman, 1B
5. Markakis, LF
6. Riley, 3B
7. Swanson, SS
8. D’Arnaud, C