The Reds are just a couple months removed from wrapping up a 75-win campaign, their sixth straight sub-.500 showing and sixth in a row without a playoff berth. President of baseball operations Dick Williams made it clear entering the offseason that he had seen enough. Williams vowed that the Reds would be players on the open market, saying at the beginning of October the club would “be aggressive in trying to get some guys in free agency.” However, as the saying goes, actions speak louder than words. Two months later, it’s clear Williams wasn’t simply telling disgruntled Reds fans what they wanted to hear.
The Williams-led Reds made an enormous and shocking splash in free agency on Monday, adding infielder Mike Moustakas on a four-year, $64MM guarantee. It was a stunning move for multiple reasons, including the price tag and that Moustakas’ primary position – third base – is already spoken for in Cincinnati. He’s not going to steal the job from incumbent Eugenio Suarez, who’s fresh off a 49-home run season, nor is he a threat to swipe first from franchise legend Joey Votto. That presumably leaves second base for Moustakas. The keystone was an area of need for the Reds prior to the Moustakas signing, and the 31-year-old showed last season he was capable of handling himself there as a member of the division-rival Brewers. Now that Moustakas is aboard, it seems likely youngster Nick Senzel will remain their center fielder instead of shifting to the keystone. So, it’s almost like two decisions in one for the Reds.
As for the cost, it’s a whopper of a deal from both sides’ perspective, especially considering MLBTR was among the outlets that projected a payday in the $20MM range for Moustakas at the start of free agency. That said, one could argue it’s a market correction after back-to-back difficult offseasons for Moustakas. “Difficult” is relative in this case, of course, as the Scott Boras client did rack up contracts worth a guaranteed $16.5MM in that time frame. However, despite a lengthy track record of solid production, Moustakas was unable to score a contract of more than one year in either case. Now, for a truckload of cash, the Reds are getting a player with five seasons of at least 2.0 fWAR and another five of 20-plus home runs on his resume. Moustakas smashed 35 HRs during a homer-heavy league year in 2019, when he slashed .254/.329/.516 and put up 2.8 fWAR across 584 plate appearances.
With Moose in the mix, the majority of Cincy’s infield looks settled. However, the team’s position player cast arguably still has needs at shortstop, catcher and in the outfield. Whether they’ll be as aggressive in trying to upgrade those spots remains to be seen in the wake of the pact they doled out for Moustakas. For now, though, what do you think of this big-time Cincy splash?
(Poll link for app users)
Love this deal! The Reds have signed a free agent for market value for the first time in history!
If someone offered him 6 for 80 to years ago I am sure he would of taken it. The reds made him whole.
Yes, brilliant. The Reds get the honour of overpaying for his years of decline.
And you Dinsdale are a dbag. Way to kill it.
Much like the Cardinals have done with Molina and Carpenter.
Couldn’t they have gotten him for a 3-year deal? 4 seems excessive and they might have been bidding against themselves. Perhaps they need to overpay to get players to come there and show the world that they can play with the big boys.
This being the reds i am pretty sure they did not bid against themselves. This is their biggest free agent in a long time or ever and they were on top of every aspect to who else was bidding and what market value is. However they may have had to overpay as you mentioned they have not been relevant for a long time.
I graded it a C. He is a nice player. But they have a better 3rd baseman and Votto is going nowhere. Moose is not a 2nd basemen. And it is too pricey.
What the hell happens to Suarez, then?
Nothing happens to Suarez. He stays at 3B.
@Vin Scully
I graded it at a C as well. Can Moustakas hit? Yes without a doubt. That would be a steep price for him at 3rd. To pay him that amount to move to 2nd could end up being very bad!
I gave it a D. Feels a bit like an overpay for someone who’s good but not great and doesn’t get on base very well. I know Ian Desmond isn’t a perfect comp, but it has that head scratching feel.
Money aside, his OPS has exceeded .800 just 4 times in 9 years (including 2016 when he only played 27 games and his OPS was .801). That’s ok, but when you consider he’ll be 31-35 and playing out of position at 2B, his bat needs to play far better. Don’t see the appeal for a team who traded Scooter Gennett who had been better than Moustakas in 2017 and 2018.
Well in 40 starts at 2nd, he only had 1 error and graded out as even in defensive runs saved. Clearly he can handle the position
Exactly!
For a guy who had never played 2B before, he was pretty good last year. Started 40 games, made 1 error.
Vin!! And I thought you knew baseball after all these years. He’s played quite a bit of 2b. So yes he can
47 games last year.
2nd base is not an important defensive spot any longer since the shift and no slide rule taking out the defender at the base. Look around the league. Multiple teams have multiple players at 2nd base. Suarez also stays at 3B.
On a scale of 1-10, I’d give it a B-
Haha, if we call a “D” a passing grade and an F as a failure I give it a 7! 😉
on a scale of 1 to Z I give it two thumbs way up!!!
Touchdown!
On a five star system this signing is threat level orange.
An A for 2020, after that though…
He’ll be an A- for 2021
And a B for 2022
And a C for 2023 ?
Or, in other words, a solid B for the duration of the contract. Which is what I gave the signing: a solid B.
That’s a lot of money to get what will surely be less production than the Reds got from Scooter Gennett for two years.
However, with Scooter hurt and gone, Peraza had every chance to show he could be an every day contributor. Bottom line is: he didn’t. Moustakas should be a solid, steady presence in a pretty stout lineup.
B.
As an aside, I think a lot of Reds fans were excited to see Josh Van Meter get a shot at second base. It’ll be interesting to see what their plans are for him.
And I guess this means any chance of Nick Senzel moving to 2B is gone…
Solid c
Little too much. Yeah moose is solid but so is Didi. And Didi could have been had for similar AAV, maybe even less, on a 1-3 year deal, at a position the Reds kinda need. And then Didi could have moved to 2B or 3B after 2020 if the roster looks different. Moose can’t play SS. I’m in the C range simply because they gave that money to the wrong player.
You realize Didi is still on their radar, right? Moose doesn’t preclude them still going after DD
Do they have that kind of money? They still need a catcher. If Senzel is playing IF then they still need a Center fielder. And id assume they want to sign another Starter and maybe a bullpen arm.
Meh, they sign Castro for a couple million…..
they don’t have to have a catcher . there guys are average
they’re in the running for Wheeler and he’s going to get at least 5 years and at least $100m. They have their parents AMEX black card this winter
That photoshop looks awful
Based on the photo, I give this signing a B…job
It was worth a solid laugh though.
I think it’s a b. With defensive shifting I think moose can at least be playable at 2b. I also think nl dh is coming before end of his contract. Add in days off of suarez and votto moving him to the corners no a perfect fit but does give reds a lefty power bat they needed
Lol. NL DH coming within the next 4 years? Keep dreaming, pal.
DH will be part of the next CBA. It’s incredibly weird MLB has 2 sets of rules and has for nearly 50 years
You’re right, need one set of rules. No DH!
Players would never allow the dh to be pulled. Offense sells. Owners will get something but allowing nl dh will be a chip to get it.
My opinion baseball should allow home team to decide if dh is used.
Nl also was the original league that wanted it. Not that it means anything just thought it was interesting
I just think he was way overpaid. For him, awesome deal. For the reds, idk. He’s so fat you always have to be concerned that production will fade based …. guys like him get paid then generally fade quickly. Panda sorta comes to mind. I expect him to be 15-20 lbs bigger when he comes to ST
Fat? That is what you’re basing his production off of? Moose has never had weight issues and I highly doubt he ever will
Okay so he’s husky, big boned, so to speak…
16 million is less than a qualifying offer. Moose has been a productive player the last few years while I do worry that he won’t stick at 2b and will likely tail off at the end I’ve always thought of the last year as deferred money involved
Reds have a three year window at best unless baseball finally fixes things so smaller markets can keep their windows open longer (total revenue sharing put all teams on equal financial footing) teams must do what they can when they have them. And suck hard when it’s closed.
Biggest shock signing so far I gave it an A
Moustakas 4 yrs @ 64m to play 3rd would be a B. To ke that is a little bit of an overpay….then to move him to 2nd is a huge gamble.
I agree. Maybe they find a way to dump Votto?
Get real people, no one want the head case Votto, a waste of remaining 104 million owed to him
Villars was better option at way less price tag. And 4 yrs? And natural 3rd baseman. He is decent player just not what team needs to raise their level
Go ahead, post it a couple more times. Are you sure twice is enough?
You’re right. It seems like Villar would have been a better fit: less money, shorter commitment, and more fluidity when it comes to position.
Reds never had the chance to acquire Villar. Miami had a higher waiver position. I’m sure the Reds would’ve been very interested but nothing they could’ve done
Baltimore tried to trade Villar before waiving him, so the Reds could have got him.
Villar also wanted to play for a Florida team since he’s from the Dominican Republic
Villars was better option at way less price tag. And 4 yrs? And natural 3rd baseman. He is decent player just not what team needs to raise their level
B
So where do we see the FA contest leaders list so far?
I can’t help but feel that most people are voting because they “wanted Moose to get paid.” It’s a definite overpay to play someone in a position that does not best fit them. That annual salary (bunched with Votto) significantly hamstrings their payroll flexibility. I give it a D, but I am hopeful it works out (best case scenario is a B in my opinion).
He played 2B fine last year.
Nice choice, huge overpay. I give it a C.
If increments were available, I’d have given a C- or D+. Good player, decent AAV, but that I’d have done 2, maybe 3 years max.
I know Moustakas looked okay at 2b last year, and there’s a possibilty he could play 3b with Suarez sliding to second, but I can’t help but notice the Reds lack of concern when it comes to team defense. No one on the team is a true plus defender. They have Senzel, a 3b, playing centerfield. Winker, who I hope hits this year, is terrible in the outfield. For all the talk of Suarez’s athletic ability he’s merely average defensively. Now Moustakas at 2b?
In that tiny ball park, it seems like they would try to help their pitchers out a little more, bring in some free agents that can field at an above average level.
In a tiny ballpark OF defense isn’t as important and the Reds were one of the most aggressive teams shifting so IF defender is less valued. Reds staff also led league in strikeouts so fewer balls in play anyhow
D. I don’t see him playing multiple years at 2b. Suarez is their best hitter and Votto is locked up forever. they’ll be trying to move him at the 2021 trade deadline.
Gave it a C. Not because I don’t like Moose in their lineup, but it just feels like an overpay in a market flush with 2B options. The Reds would have been better served to give that money to Grandal since the disparity between he and the rest of the catching market is far greater than that of Moose and the second base market. It’ll be fun to watch him mash at that ballpark though!
Why does his eye black look more photoshopped than his helmet? Weird.
It’s called they superimposed Moustakasis face into the reds helmet ⛑
I voted C
Too many years. I’d have gone three if they could.
But great deal for Moose. Happy for Him. . .
They may have a trade idea in the works. Suarez to (Bos, LAA, Hou etc…) for pitching/as/c help. They have surprised almost everyone and have enough pieces to remain relevant or decide they are out and try to kick off a huge rebuild netting several of the best prospects out there.
Post this poll again in 3 years when he’s DHing for the Blue Jays on the Reds’ dime.
I gave it a B because it was an overpay but if the Reds want a good free agent…that’s how you get them.
He’s as productive a 2nd baseman as you can get. Compare it to last years 2nd base production & this is huge for the Reds!
And heck, if he has trouble at 2nd base then Suárez who’s a natural shortstop can play there. This is a team sport & you play them where it’s best for the team!
Thanks for the early Christmas present Reds….I love it!
Horrible overpay early in free agency for a non-top talent. If they were going to spend big Mous was not the right guy especially at that price tag and after two straight years of having to settle for 1 year deals. Happy for Moustakas though, don’t understand why the Reds had to pay so much in a market where good players are getting non-tendered for a fraction of that.
huge overpay
Moustakas was one of the top 10 hitters available. Trying to trade for Villar would land them a middle infielder for exactly ONE year. The Reds lineup just got significantly better, and better for multiple years. He has serious pop, with a low K %. The Reds just added a middle of the lineup hitter, while keeping all of their prospects. Solid pickup.
so far every free agent has been overpaid. so until the market really is about half over it’s really hard to tell. plus not hardly any real bats out there.
B. He’ll play the next two years at 2nd base and then become the Reds first DH (not counting inter league play) they overpayed if they don’t make another big signing. It’s only a B if it’s combined with an Osuna or Gregorious signing.
“Moustakas was unable to score a contract of more than one year in either case.”
He was unable to? Or he chose not to sign a multi-year deal for less than he felt he was worth?
“Horrible overpay” is a bit steep. Slight, sure, but the Reds are being competitive. People are really seeming to bash this signing more than I expected. I think it was a good move. Not incredible, but good. He’s versatile. Will mash in Cincy’s park. And fills a need, especially since the CF market sucked too much to move Senzel right now.
But maybe that’s me as a Giants fan with guys like Belt being paid more than that for half the production. Call me a guy with the glass half full… of terrible contracts on my team
Umm…They both came up in 2011 and Belt has been the better player over that time period. 20.1 to 16.1 fWAR.
I feel like now they need to go after a glove first middle infielder. Maybe bring back Iggy as a late inning replacement for Moustakas.
I was thinking the same except sign Didi to play short and you have Galvis as a super utility.
I think the only real potential issue with this deal is the length. Is he still going to be worth it in years 3 and 4? I’m not so sure about that — otherwise I think he’s actually kind of underrated in this Era of OBP obsessed metrics, etc. I get it OBP is important but so is hitting 30 HRs and driving in 100 runs. You need both to have a good lineup and I think sometimes teams get carried away with the OBP/AVG/WAR numbers and kind of forget that there’s also still immense value in having a guy hitting 4/5/6 that is capable of driving in 100. Good signing for now — but could become an issue in seasons 3 and 4 depending on how he ages – especially if he’s still going to be asked to play 2B in those seasons (which is a legit “if” between the possibility of the NL getting a DH in the next collective bargaining deal and/or Votto being moved or Suarez being moved or… moved to 2B)
30 home runs and 100 RBIs is important. Too bad Moose has never done the latter in his career. This signing is a C grade. Bit of an overpay for a slightly above average hitter, plus definitely risky to hope he’ll stick at 2B for 4 years.
It wouldn’t be a bad deal if the Reds didn’t have the corner IF filled for the near future. I don’t see Moose playing 2b well in the near future, given that he’s at the stage of career where he will not become faster or more agile,, so I’m skeptical that it’ll work out well.
The signing itself is a C (a bit of an overpay and not a perfect fit for their needs), but given what this says to Reds fans and all of MLB makes it an A… they are serious and there’s much more to come!
This is a 40 Degree Day deal.
F. Who the heck did the Reds think they were bidding against? Suddenly, now two years older, he is worth ten times what he was worth then?
Don’t you realize there was at least 2 other teams bidding for Moustaskis and since they lost on Grandial they bid high on Moustaskis!
dumb move. he wont age well
Loved Moose in a Brewer uniform (and a team leader too) but not sure he’ll withstand four years without a lot of wear and tear. And welcome to Cincinnati, where the crowds are about half the size of Miller Park based on what I saw in July.
This is a straight up “F” in my opinion given the years on the contract. Moustakas is a 2.5 WAR player when he’s at 3B and probably a 2.0 WAR 2B, over 30, and coming off 2 consecutive 1 year contracts for far less AAV than what the Reds offered him.
It seems like a dramatic overpay. I’m sure he would have jumped at 4yrs $40M… to see him getting over AAV and years seems totally unnecessary.