What’s next for the Reds after reportedly agreeing to terms with outfielder Shogo Akiyama? That’s open to interpretation … and perhaps not part of a fully defined plan for the Cincinnati front office.
There’s no question that Akiyama will be tasked with significant playing time. He’s viewed by his new org as a top-of-the-order hitter who can line up at any outfield position, C. Trent Rosecrans of The Athletic tweets. That suggests that Akiyama will see at least near-regular playing time … but also that he may not be tasked solely with playing in center.
These days, more than ever, it’s not strictly necessary to keep players in specific spots all year long. So … no big deal, Akiyama is now a part of the mix. But just how many ingredients can you have on one recipe card? The Reds already had loads of potential outfielders on hand.
Let’s start with the left-handed-hitting side. Former first-round draft pick Jesse Winker is the major carryover asset. He has obliterated right-handed pitching in the majors (.307/.396/.511) to about the same extent he has struggled against same-handed hurlers (.176/.295/.248). Utilityman Josh VanMeter spent time in the corners last year. Rule 5 pick Mark Payton had seemed slated to compete against holdover Scott Schebler and recent acquisitions Travis Jankowski and Nick Martini for roles. Now, with Akiyama joining Winker, it’s possible that none of those four players will be on the Opening Day roster.
That only begins to describe the crowd on hand. The outfield mix also features a bunch of righty bats. Highly touted youngster Nick Senzel — much more on him below — joins breakout performer Aristides Aquino as the major right-handed-hitting pieces of the picture. Phillip Ervin, Jose Siri, and even toolsy reliever Michael Lorenzen are also factors on the 40-man.
If nothing else, the Reds will surely end up bumping multiple outfielders from the 40-man roster. Ervin, Jankowski, and Schebler are all out of options. Payton must be kept on the active roster or sent back to the A’s. Siri appears to be at risk on the heels of an uninspiring 2019 season in the upper minors.
But the really interesting question isn’t how the Reds will resolve the margins of the 40-man. No doubt some of those calls will be made over the next two months, if and when the team makes other additions that create a crunch. Some of those players could hold appeal elsewhere, creating the possibility of trades and/or waiver claims.
What’s more intriguing is whether the Reds take a bolder path. It’s certainly possible the club will roll out an outfield foursome featuring Senzel and Aquino, from the right side, and Akiyama and Winker, from the left. But … just why did the organization gather up all of those platoon-able options of late?
Senzel had been the presumptive center fielder after being pushed out of consideration at his native second base position by the surprise signing of Mike Moustakas. With Moose joining stalwart corner pieces Joey Votto and Eugenio Suarez in the infield, there’s really nowhere else for Senzel to go. Senzel has played on the left side of the infield, but never much at shortstop, where Freddy Galvis is presently the lone real option. (VanMeter has limited experience there in the minors.)
In theory, Senzel could play a major role in a shifting capacity. He’d play all over the outfield and spell the primary infielders. But that’s arguably not the best way to bring along a 24-year-old player who was not long ago a top-ten overall MLB prospect and presumptive franchise savior. That’s especially true given that he’ll be coming back from a less-than-excellent debut season that ended with shoulder surgery. Senzel still has loads of talent … and loads of trade value.
When you look at the roster, you’re left thinking … man, it’d all look so good if only Senzel could play shortstop. There’s nothing wrong with Galvis, but he has been a regular for a lot of non-competitive teams and seems misplaced as an everyday guy on a club with big aspirations. The Reds have dabbled with Senzel at short in the past, but he spent all of 2019 getting comfy in center. It feels unlikely he’ll be tasked with a big move to short on the heels of a winter spent rehabbing.
It’s not hard to connect the dots here. Adding Akiyama on the heels of the Moustakas signing hardly pushes Senzel out of the picture. But the combination of moves makes it easy to imagine the roster functioning without him. And Senzel would be just the kind of asset that would hold appeal to the teams that might consider giving up high-quality players at shortstop.
Who might that be? It’s far from clear that we’ll see a blockbuster at the shortstop position, but suffice to say there’s ample intrigue if you think creatively. We’ve seen the Reds tied to the Indians’ Francisco Lindor. Those teams have hammered out one recent major swap. It’s worth noting that the Dodgers are also in on Lindor, and that the Cincinnati club has sorted out major three-way arrangements with both of those organizations. Corey Seager would no doubt hold appeal as well. Other intriguing names that have arisen (largely speculatively) in rumors include Carlos Correa of the Astros and Trevor Story of the Rockies. The Athletics would have to listen on pending free agent Marcus Semien. Perhaps a player such as Dansby Swanson of the Braves could be acquired as part of some convoluted multi-team accord, though he wouldn’t necessarily be viewed as an impact addition.
The Reds wouldn’t be limited to shortstops, either. The club has pursued high-end catchers of late and could certainly benefit from an elite reliever or perhaps even a major corner outfield bat (with all the above discussion of the volume of outfielders applying with even greater force). Certainly, all of these areas remain ripe for improvement even if the Reds aren’t interested in dangling Senzel. There could yet be value to be had on the open market in the corner outfield, and the trade carousel may only just have begun to spin.
The point here isn’t to suggest that any particular scenario is likely to come to fruition. It’s that the Reds now have loads of avenues for finishing off their roster, depending upon what opportunities arise. For a club that has made no secret of its intention to win, and that has not shied from bold action of late, it’s an intriguing place to be.
As things stand, the Reds are improved. But Moustakas, Akiyama, and Wade Miley don’t collectively transform this roster (at least on paper) from a 75-win team into a surefire division winner. The moves to this point of the winter have put the organization in a place where it’ll be expected to contend even without further acquisitions … and where one well-conceived, major strike could make the roster stand out in the tightly bunched NL Central.
lets just remember how well regarded Senzel is. just because they have a CF option doesn’t mean Senzel is useless.
Agreed, and keep in mind Akiyama is only being paid $6M a year, that’s 4th OF salary for a guy his age. They can store him in the minors too, in case of injury, I would think Senzel stays in CF full time for now. Winker makes them lefty-heavy, so another solution is Winker gone, then go Senzel-Akiyama-Aquino (or even with Senzel in CF and Akiyama in LF) in the OF.
As for Senzel being useless? He is a prime breakout candidate, I can’t wait to see what he does in 2020. Kinda bummed on this move tbh. Reds could have used that on a better SS, or Will Harris (although maybe they do all those moves?)
I don’t know of any 4th outfielder making $6 million a year. I know of plenty making close to the league minimum but just because a guy is 32 years old doesn’t mean teams are willing to pay him $6 million a year to be a backup outfielder.
I don’t know many teams paying 6 million bucks to their 4th outfielder by design.
Even though hicks will start the season on the DL that is exactly what gardener is
Come on bud, you Can’t compare what the yankees can do financially to the other 31 teams..
He was not signed to be a backup
He is not but he is a great trade chip
@DarkSide830 If I were the Reds, I would go for it. I would trade Senzel for 2 years of Lindor. The NL Central is ripe for the taking. If you take the Reds rotation with the way the lineup would look with Lindor in it, the Reds would have to be the favorite to win the division. You have to give up something to get Lindor. I wouldn’t trade Senzel for any SS option mentioned in this article. It probably won’t happen, but I believe it should.
If they dont do anything and don’t have injuries, this is probably the mix:
OF vs RHP: Aquino, Winker, Akiyama (Senzel mixing in the IF/Of for off days, and also to push Winker to DH vs AL opponents, also mixing in if Aquino regresses or Akiyama doesn’t do well)
Platooned: Senzel (for Akiyama), Ervin (for Winker)
DFA’d: Jankowski, Schebler
Stuck as the 6th OF/26th roster spot who doesnt play: Payton
Minors: Martin, Siri, possibly VanMeter
What a wonderfully written article, hats off to you Jeff Todd!
It was good until this phrase in final paragraph:
“[the moves] don’t collectively transform this roster (at least on paper) from a 75-win team into a surefire division winner”
Like any moves would do that in such a highly competitive division…if one of the three better teams in the division added all the guys the Reds did, *and* Lindor, they still wouldn’t be “surefire division winners.”
Awww. Honey Boo Book’s Mother: can I cuddle with that turkey gobble on your throat? It looks so comfortable. Like a reverse frollup.
I’m not sure who Honey Boo Book is, friend…
Senzel will be on his way to Cleveland for Lindor
Did Siri ask Siri what his chances are of making the team?
she didnt understand the question
Let me ask Red fans this. Move Senzel back to 3B and trade Suarez to the Braves ?????
no. senzel and whoever the indians want from the farm for lindor!
No way, he had 49 homers & they still have yrs of control, that would be a fan’s nightmare
Zero chance on earth they trade Suarez. Reds are pot committed next year.
Depends on who the Braves would trade for him. Suarez is owed 6/54. Being that they have Senzel, they probably could move him to 3B and then have 54M to re-invest on the next batch of FA SS which include Andrelton Simmons and Marcus Semien. Senzel-Semien is probably better than Suarez-Galvis, ya know?
If the Braves put any of their top 5 prospects on the table, its bye bye Eugie.
No way they would ever do that. He is gold glove caliber and just hit 49 bombs… and they have him for like 10 mil a year for 6 years? Braves would have to give top 5 prospects and major league talent with a team friendly contract like that. He is literally the best hitter AND defender on the team.
Haha! Absolutely NOT!
let me guess, you want to unload Adam Duvall somewhere in that deal too? Maybe you think you can nab Castillo too while you’re at it? Lordy…
This would be insanity. Suarez is now the face of the organization. He’s proven, signed for cheap, and still under team control.
That’s a dumb trade
Your crazy
Highly, highly unlikely but outside of Pache and Waters, I’d let them pick any 3 other prospects they want.
Hell no! Suarez is just entering his prime and hasnt reached his ceiling yet. IMO!
Stupidest idea I’ve heard. Cmon man
Not so sure about the Senzel/Lindor thing, Reds are sort of stocking up for some type of further trades, it could get interesting this FO is on a mission, a 3 way trade of some magnitude could happen.
Neutral fan, but:
Would Senzel, Siri, Galvis and a low A flyer get it done for Lindor?
Galvis seems like a decent one-year option to pair with Cesar Hernandez up the middle. Nothing spectacular, but it’s a competent replacement for Lindor at $5 million.
Senzel is the big piece, but I agree with the basis of the article that Senzel for Lindor is a nice starting point for a trade.
Reds would do that in a heartbeat, however I don’t think that’s even worth Cleveland answering the phone
The Reds aren’t calling. They’d be foolish to trade Senzel for just two years of Lindor.
Tribe says no rather quickly to that offer.
Indians do not need Senzel at CF, they have Mercado. They don’t need him at 2B, they have Hernandez now and Tyler Freeman in the not too distant future. Senzel is a good piece but he’s not going to be the primary asset that gets them to move Lindor.
If the two teams were to match I would say Cleveland would be interested in their corner outfield depth, and Cincy would be more interested in rotation depth.
Senzel will be better than Lindor by ‘21, and far cheaper. If the Indians want to dump Lindor, great, but no on Senzel.
Add Lodolo to that package and you are starting to get warm…
If the Indians would- we would laugh all the way to the Division series
I don’t want Senzel to go. But straight up for Lindor I would accept. Anything short of Lindor would haunt the Reds for years.
How big of you!
Golly, would you accept my new top-of-the-line Honda Accord SUV in return for your 14 year-old Nissan Sentra?
Ok, in your analogy who is the new Accord…. wait… accords aren’t SUVs… so you’re like not a car guy… ya know what. Never mind.
Lol at comparing Lindor to a Honda (Accord, no less.) Also, what the heck is an Accord SUV?
Senzel is the top of the line car and we’d be trading for a 5 year old car with 2 left so I agree with your take.
Yeah… he’s like that awesome Range Rover you’re so proud of but never get to drive because it’s in the shop all of the time.
Denzel has more issues than TV Guide, ship him off to someone else’s DL. 🙂
Uhh… Senzel, I guarantee
@ Dbird777;
Let’s cut the juvenile crap…..
If Senzel’s so GD good, why does his name keep coming up in trade rumors?
The guys cheap, 24 years-old, and supposed to be a terrific hitter and fielder. So why do the Reds keep moving him around to other positions? The Indians didn’t do that to Lindor when he came up. The Angels to Trout. A crummy team has what is supposed to be a top prospect make the major league team, and moves him around to play a strange position that he’s never played because they want to play a couple of 2B’s whose names I’ve forgotten and may already be off the team….that were replaced in late 2019 by Freddy Galvis – a guy that they got on waivers?
If Senzel is as good as you and others think he is, there is no way in the world the Reds should think about trading him for a guy with 2 years of control. That makes no sense.
Uh, he comes up in trade rumors from other teams because they value him and want him. I don’t think the Reds are looking to trade him.
He keeps coming up in trade rumors because he IS so GD good.
If Schebler is so bad why does his name NOT come up in trade rumors?
See how that works? Sheesh.
I don’t think Cincinnati should trade for Lindor at this time. Why would you give up on Senzel + for him? I have no idea why the Reds would want to pigeonhole themselves into a 2 year window to win a World Series. It was like the Josiah Gray/Downs trade last year. The deal did nothing for your team and now you’re left with nothing to show. Meanwhile the Dodgers have two top 100 prospects to use as trade ammo.
The Reds need to let the window open organically. This team hasn’t even reached .500 yet. If you put your foot on the gas before the light turns green you might end up totaling your car… Cincy shouldn’t be pressing down that hard just yet. Talk about that move in July if you’re in the right position.
This. They’ve had a good offseason. Let’s roll with what we have and see where things stand come July.
“deal did nothing”?……………………trevor bauer ring a bell?
Do you think 2 months of Yasiel Puig is what made that Bauer trade happen?
Taylor Trammell is what made that deal happen. The Indians would’ve happily taken one of Jeter Downs or Josiah Gray. They were more valuable pieces. They could’ve gotten an outfielder in a separate trade very easily. For less than the cost of Jeter Downs or Josiah Gray. So that’s not gonna work for me.
Id rather have Gray and Downs personally. If the reds go far in the 2020 postseason I may change my mind but I think we spend the next decade plus regretting that trade with the dodgers.
This… this is a hot take. Looking back on it, playing Dietrich/Vanmeter/Peraza (possibly the worst 2nd base situation the Reds have had in a long time) at 2nd was a bad decision (everyone was swept up in the first month’s feverish strain of Derek Dietrich).
Suarez came up as a SS. If he can still play there you put Moustakas and Senzel respectively at 3B and 2B and everyone has their “natural” position.
He couldn’t play there that’s why he was moved in the first place
They been lookin for a SS for awhile if he could play there he woulda been there
Why do ppl waste their time with dumb questions
Everybody has their own opinion about what is a dumb question. Why do people get internet tough and unnecessarily put other people down?
Not the case. He was moved because of a trade. He played SS in 15 when the Reds acquired him.. He was supposed to be a backup to Zack Cozart, but Cozart was hurt most of the year. In 16, Cozart was back and Todd Frazier was traded, so there was a hole at 3B that the Reds filled by moving Suarez. who was hurt most of the year). Cozart played pretty well in 16-17 and outstanding in 18, so there was no need for Suarez to play SS.
Suarez can play SS, but you are correct in that is he is below average there. At 3B, he is outstanding. Senzel is probably the same, as he has no experience playing SS at all (though he is an outstanding athlete who can play 2B and 3B quite well, so he probably could play SS if he had to).
Agreed. Senzel is athletic enough to play 3rd. Suarez is a natural SS. Galvis is a super utility player. That being said I think the Reds end up with Lindor at SS with Senzel, India, and either Lodolo, Santillan, or Greene headed to the Tribe..
It seems like I’ve read these same trade proposals well over 2 dozen times.
Senzel is not the type of guy the Indians would trade Lindor for.
He’s 24,they like them younger,and his injury history is a big negative.
The rest of the Reds prospects don’t move the needle enough for them to deal for Senzel.That could change by mid season but I doubt it.
Suarez was never a “natural” SS. Years later he’s far from a SS.
Reds are not going to trade Lodolo, who is pretty much a lock cheap #2 starter in the bigs starting in 2021. Greene right now has low trade value because of his injury. Santillan isn’t someone that the Indians would covet very much.
Suarez has gained some weight since moving to third.
I think Geno is a few burgers and kids too deep to play SS
Jays have a glut of SS and C prospects… need a CF…. something there maybe??
sounds like a great fit for a 3 team deal!! Senzel to Toronto, Lindor to Cincinnati being the principles but other pieces moved around as well
This is pure fantasy… but one I can get behind.
To Jays: Senzel
To Reds: Lindor, Reese McGuire
To Tribe: Jordan Groshans, Lodolo, Teoscar Hernandez and Alford
Reds get a SS and C, Jays get a CF, Indians get 2 top 100 prospects and some OF options.
Personally I think that’s a great return for 2 years of Lindor.
Good creativity thinking that one through. Wow. It actually makes sense for all three teams, as crazy as it may sound on the surface.
How is that a good deal for the Indians, a team that won 93 games last year despite many major injuries. They are not planning a rebuild. So why would they trade Lindor for two prospects, a failed outfield prospect, and a totally medocre outfielder. Cleveland would quickly say no to this one.
Yeah. I would think they would want more immediate help for the big league roster.
Teoscar isn’t useless though. Really good second half last year and could surprise this year. And the two prospects are really good ones.
While Lindor is the premium player now, remember the purchasing team is buying a 21 month performer who figures to command an outlandish salary afterwards. Each month that goes by, his value lessens for a return. Other teams offering younger players with longer control have to guage their payment versus the return. Its the Indians who realize the future salary is probably out if their zone and while not absolutely needing to trade Lindor, looks to be a responsible franchise decisions.
I love the idea. don’t see this as often as you would think.
Too many outfielders. A Trade must be in the works. I am thinking Lindor.
Well written article.
Standing by my prediction of a Red’s-Indian’s trade. Cleveland is said to really like Senzel. Maybe a N. Senzel, P. Ervin, F. Galvis, J.India, H. Greene gets it done. To me it seems just a little time to happen.
You are crazy lol way too much.
Indians have a better 3B prospect then India – 2 years younger and will be up sometime this year.
They can get Iggy to play SS for them for half the salary of Galvis, and Iggy is better.
Greene is coming off surgery.
If that’s the best the Indians can get, then Lindor will be playing for them in 2020.
The Reds top two prospects, their top prospect from last year, and two additional players that could be full time players doesnt get it done?
You play fantasy baseball too much. You are crazy if you think thats screwing the Indians.
India could be moved to 2B and guys come back from TJ all the time now so I wouldn’t give up that much for Lindor. Let the Tribe let him walk in ’22 for nothing. while getting obliterated by the Stros/Yankees if they’re lucky enough to win the division.
That’s better than they can get
Succinct and accurate summary.
Remember when the Indians said two weekends ago for teams to give them their final offers for Lindor and then nothing happened and no one even asked them about it?
Well, you’re close, which is better then you usually are…..it was last weekend.
And yes, what happened with that?
It’s going to take a good deal of talent to get Lindor. Not saying ALL. And Senzel seems to be injury prone. Way thing’s are going, my bet is Lindor is a Cincinnati Red by Opening Day.
What are you smoking TJ? Your thinking is CRAZY!!!
Why the Cubs passed up on Akiyama is beyond belief..
Fills two holes for any club but specifically the Cubs holes he would have filled that they’ve been missing since Fowler left.
Passed up on? …Someone else signed him…
Cubs said nothing is happening until Bryant and maybe Rizzo’s situations are solved, and any Bryant move won’t happen until Donaldson signs.
It’s really not much of a log jam. They are well set up to give guys regular rest or cover an injury or two. Just because the opening day lineup card might leave someone out, the playing time will equal out.
Senzel is injury prone.
I’d be willing to see him traded. I think he should’ve been traded before last year. I believe his value has been hurt.
I agree I think the Reds are also concerned about it
San Diego needs to get in on Denzel either for CF or 2B.
Patino starts the talks and Padres have pitching depth to fuel the reds rotation and pen.
Abrams would be my first target then patino. Either is a great grab for reds and don’t set em back much this season for loosing senzel.
Senzel has a higher trade value than Lindor because of the team control.
Really?
Then the Reds should keep him!
why does where he played in 2019 matter in a bubble for his value. Senzel was a superprospect entering this year and has the ability to play any of a number of positions and has a huge offensive ceiling. players like that dont come along every day. while Lindor helps a lot now, unless he is the final piece the Reds need i dont see them parting with Senzel for him.
I’ve seen Senzel play.
So far his rep is a lot larger then his game…..and I didn’t expect him to come in hitting .325. / .380 and playing GG defense.
Granted, the Reds are messing him up screwing around with him as they have.
I kind of agree with this. I think most fans overestimate Lindors trade value.
He’s a great SS to be sure… but with only two years of control and his salary growing annually through arbitration.. I think Indians fans may be disappointed with what he would bring back.
Senzel was a consensus top 10 prospect in MLB just a year ago. He was ranked similarly to Bo Bichette…. just didn’t get off to the hot start at the MLB level that Bichette did. I’m 100% sure the Jays wouldn’t give him up for Lindor right now…. so maybe Senzel wouldn’t be available either.
Yes, I agree Vandals. The Reds should keep Senzel. The Indians can have their two years of Lindor.
Agreed
I doubt anyone who has any connection to Cleveland agrees with you.
I am a Cleveland fan and I am fine keeping Lindor for 2020 rather than to trade him for some of this ridiculous proposals that I see on here.
Again, cmon man
One of the best analysis for a team I have seen in awhile, Jeff Todd. Thanks for your perspective.
Unless somebody gives you their family jewels, you keep Suarez because he is probably Votto’s replacement at some point. That bat…
Senzel can play all OF positions, 3B and 2B. He needs development time at SS, but could play it. I can see a trade for Lindor for him now, but I think they will lose a future top of the order Zobrist type in Senzel. I would not want to be responsible for trading him, that’s a lot of upside that can hold a team together and produce W’s.
What is the basis for comparing him to Zobrist?
Is that a serious question?
Uhh, I don’t know about you but I prefer Suarez to anyone’s family jewels. For that matter I prefer Cody Reed to family jewels.
Like this article
As a Dodger fan this creates several possibilities which benefits say the Indians, Reds and Bums
You could see the Indians getting youth and quality prospects from Reds and Dodgers along with some salary relief, Reds getting Seager and Pederson or Pollack from Dodgers,and Dodgers getting Lindor and Clevenger.
Dodgers can add some versatility by including say Hernandez to Indians. The prospects could include a starting pitcher currently ready and an A level pitcher along with Ruiz as a AAA catcher
and a AA level OF or INF to go along with 2-3 prospects and an OF from the Reds including current SS
Lindor and Clevinger will not be dealt in the same deal.
Do you ever look at what you’ve typed and ask yourself, “does this post make me look like a complete idiot?”….obviously not.
55bums, The Indians won 93 games last year despite many major injuries. They plan to contend in 2020. They are not going to trade Lindor and Clevinger for a bunch of prospects and salary relief. Clevinger is only projected to make 4.and a half million this year. A trade involving LIndor will cost the Dodgers controllable major league players. Please know for a trade to happen, all of the teams needs must be met.
The Reds do not want Pederson in this fictional trade scenario.He does not improve them and I’m sure that he is way overpaid.Same thing with Pollock,the Reds won’t be helping the Dodgers out of their awful contracts, we already did that once.
Hey 55,
I posted something similar on another post. Of course that was before we got Shogo. Not sure now what we would do with yet another outfielder. I had liked the idea of getting Seager and an above average outfielder from Dodgers who could play CF, Tribe gets Senzel plus whoever and L.A. gets LIndor. Don’t see a three way now.
The only good these rumors do the Indians is to drive up the price for Lindor.
I’m sure the Indians would love Vergudo from the Dodgers. Big, strong, decent RF that hits LH (Indians love LH hitters as well as switch hitters), hits for power, and plays hard. Don’t see the Dodgers giving him up unless the trade expands some and the Dodgers get something else they like in return as well.
But the Indians FO is quite bright. I spent a few hours watching the stiff (according to the media and fans) that they got for Kluber. Saw him in maybe a dozen games from 2019. Both Rangers’ broadcasters and opposing announcers raved about him. Throws a cutter at 98 – pretty much unheard of. Fastball over 100 is normal. A few said that if he came up with a change-of-pace pitch – the guy might be more difficult to hit then Chapman. lacks control a bit at times, but not wild by any means.
Indians are especially good at developing pitchers, along with position p[ayers. Great track record since Francona arrived and he said he gets the most satisfaction working with youngsters. Emmanuel Clase could well turn out to be a monster.
So if the Indians do in fact trade Lindor, they’ll want back at least 2 young players that they can work with that are either on the verge of major league ready or have made their debut.
I can definitely see the Tribe overplaying their hand like they did with Kluber last year. I hope the reliever you get for Lindor next year is as good.
I’m actually not a big Indians fan. I follow them because I love watching smart FO’s, smart managers, and smart players perform.
The Indians rolled the dice on Kluber in 2019, and he got injured. The great FO heads in MLB – from Branch Rickey to Bob Howsam to Pat Gillick had that happen to them. Not all trades are great. No more then executives and people never making a decision that didn’t work out. It’s something children don’t understand.
I’d suggest that the Indians stand a far better chance of winning their division in 2020 then the Reds do of winning theirs – whether they do something with Lindor or not. Small market teams like the Indians, Rays, Brewers and others are the one’s coming up with the innovations in MLB. They’re fun to watch on and off the field.
The Reds are trying to act like a large market team. As desperate as the Phillies and Padres…without the financial wherewithal. Within 2 years the Reds will crash and burn when they don’t win – because they’re throwing everything but the kitchen sink in for 2019. Anyone that has followed MLB for even 5-10 years knows that this will not end well for the Reds.
“I’m actually not a big Indians fan”. Too funny.
Just how have the Reds thrown “everything but the kitchen sink” at 2019?
Last I checked, Senzel was still a Red. So is Winker. So are all of their top prospects aka Greene, Lodolo, Tyler Stephenson, India, Garcia etc. Their projected opening day roster comes in at $125 MM (down from last year). Most of their core is controlled for years to come.
Good luck on that 2 year crash and burn claim. You might want to try following cricket, not MLB.
Signed,
Someone who has followed MLB > 5-10 years.
“I’m actually not a big Indians fan”. Too funny.”
Yes. The truth is funny to you.
I love the Braves, Nationals, Mets, Rays, Cardinals, DBacks, Yankees, Astros, Royals and a few other teams more. Watch a lot of all their games on MLB.TV. Smart teams doing interesting things. Adding the Brewers in this year as well
–
The Reds are in the middle of it, and apparently everyone but you knows it.
Senzel’s supposedly their best young player. They signed a 3B that learned to play a barely passable 2B, taking away their supposed best young players natural position. Sorry, to me that signals desperation. If the Reds have all these good young players that you note, why don’t they get them up to the majors and play them? What’s the point of Travis Jankowski and Nick Martini? (And I like Jankowski as a 4th-5th OF…..but if you have good youngsters, you play them!)
What’s going on here is a mini George Steinbrenner from the 80’s, or a sort of Brodie with he Mets last offseason – where the team looked great on paper (and I like the Mets), but so many guys were playing out of position that it was frustrating watching them lose games they clearly should have won.
We don’t know what the Indians are asking, who the Reds are offering, or even if the two FO;s are seriously talking. But the lame trades proposed here in which the Indians get a bunch of so-so players from the Reds – when they have players better then that in their system now – is tiring to read twice a week.
I’ll try to stay off regarding Red-Indians. But make no mistake – the Indians do NOT have to trade Lindor now. They can get more at the deadline if they want to trade him – injures will happen and/or teams in contention will find that the SS they depended on is dragging them down. Yes, there is a risk that Lindor get injured the first 3 months of the season, but that’s a risk you take rather then trade him for a lousy return. After all, Lindor will be playing for a $400m contract the next 2 years….and that’s powerful motivation.
Senzel will be a perennial All Star in CF for years to come. The Indians understand that, hence their interest.
I hope you get to see Nick play against your favorite 10 teams …
Like you said, “the Reds are in the middle of It” and “it” is playoff contention. And no worries, I’m very aware of it.
Reds are desperate no doubt. It’s tough to get players to sign in cincy as we have all seen over the past two years. That increases the probability they phase out after two seasons but no way sets it in stone. Greene and Lodolo can easily be all you need to pan out from that group listed and reds will continue to be competitive based on rotation alone. The other two top prospects have increasingly high floors at key positions. With their ability to continue to increase payroll- they can fill in gaps where needed. Reds have done a good job building talent and holding assets while be desperate
Nice. A MLB polygamist. MLBP
LBGTQMLBP
As a Reds fan, I can see where you are coming from. When you are a small market team, prospects/planning for the future is all the more valuable. The Phillies won (82?) games last year and they bought out half the FA market. The Reds have added, while somewhat exciting pieces, they won’t have near the impact Harper/Realmuto/Segura did. And of course the Reds won 75 games last year, whereas the Phillies had won 80 in 2018.
In sum, trading Senzel (the possible future of the franchise with Suarez) could be a terrible decision. Having said that, what would you like to see them do? I honestly am torn between trying to finally win (which they do seem at least close to being competitive) and just trying to grind out a few more years.
Nobody in Cincy is talking about cutting down Votto’s starts now that his power #s and BA are fading? Just seems that’s one place to get more PAs for the righty hitters, unless the drop in defense is too severe.
Votto will play everyday. Are u stupid?
I mean for the most part. He will get his breaks like everyone else of course
Should he play every day?
That isn’t stupid because according to MLB Tonight the Reds are Im a win now scenario and they could see if Votto don’t hit bench him, move Moustakis to first base and Senzel to second
Thanks for the support. At some point, his main value will be reduced to drawing BBs.
I’m not convinced that the Shogo acquisition means that anything more is afoot.
The Winker/Ervin platoon in LF was extremely productive last year. Senzel should get the bulk of the playing time in CF, with Shogo providing him some days off (or time elsewhere on the diamond). Akiyama could get considerable time in RF depending on Aquino’s progress. I’m not convinced that Aquino is the next Barry Bonds and of all the Reds positions, RF had the potential to be the weakest (yes, including SS and C). The AAV of Shogo’s contract doesn’t scream starter, and he could end up being the 4th OFr if he can’t beat out Aquino.
As for the others, I don’t see a real problem. Jankowski and Schebler may be out of options, but the Reds don’t have a lot invested in them. The Rule V Payton is the least of the Reds issues. Send him back to the A’s. I don’t know what “Siri appears to be at risk on the heels of an uninspiring 2019 season in the upper minors” means. He appears to be at risk of playing in AAA cause 112 PAs at the AAA level was not enough for the 23 year old?
The Reds now have 5 quality OFrs in Winker, Ervin, Senzel, Akiyama, and Aquino. Why would you trade a Senzel or a Winker? Senzel could very well be a perennial All Star in CF for years to come.
Lindor has clicked the “add to cart” button all afternoon loading up on Reds attire and equipment. Amazon has several trucks headed to his door right now! He has been waiting…
I personally would like to see the Reds get Corey Seager in a 3 way trade with Cleveland/LA. Would have to give up a bit less than you would for Lindor. Plus when healthy Seager can flat out rake. Might also be a guy more realistic to resign long term because he won’t demand 300 mil when he hits free agency, which means your return on investment is potentially much higher.
I like this thought very much but who specifically do you see as the players involved from the Reds? Given the fact that Reds just signed their CF I am trying to figure out who gets traded to make everyone happy. Reds needs are SS RP and C.
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MOOKIE BETTS
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Don’t understand Reds fans not being overly enthused about Senzel. Reminds me of Met fans and their so-so attitude about Brandon Nimmo. I’m a Phillies fans and I would gladly take both those guys and enjoy watching them play for the next decade.
Remember that old adage, “You don’t know what you’ve got until you lose it!”.
Pretty sure some guy had a hit record with that title back in the ’50s. True back then. True today.
I hear ya…it might have something to do with the fact that he’s a very low key guy, very quiet.
I think it’s because he was fast tracking and got derailed a few times due to injuries. That slowed his momentum a great deal and slowed the hype a bit.
If Cleveland wants Senzel, let them have him, he’s often broke. That is a thing that happens.
I love Eric Davis, but he would have been Willie Mays if he’d stayed healthy.
Akiyama is garbage until he proves otherwise. “Options” of what? Who to ship back and forth between Cincinnati and Louisville based on injuries/Winker’s inevitable 100 ab slump? Give Lorenzen 300 ABs in CF and ditch the Asian guy. Problem solved.
I’m not sure if this is a racist post, bitter fan or your partner cheated on you but man are you negative.
Rosters have a way of sorting themselves out though. Ask the Yankees if they had too many outfielders this season. An injury to one of their existing OF and people will be glad they signed Akiyama. If Akiyama stumbles out of the gate, they will be happy to have the other options. Games aren’t played on paper.
I’m the last guy to run around calling someone a racist, because usually its what a liberal says when losing a debate. But saying we should “ditch” the coveted free agent we just signed and referring to him as “the Asian” makes that pretty clear. Please go away.
Despite the fact that you chastised FattKemp for using a generalization as a negative by using one of your own, the point is valid. However, in the future, it might be just as wise for you to keep your political views to yourself as it would be for FattKemp to keep his racial views to himself.
I’m sticking to my original prediction – Lindor to the Dodgers, Seager to the Reds, Senzel to the Indians. Throw in a couple of mid-tier prospects or a bench guy here or there from the Dodgers and Reds. .
The Reds do not want Pederson in this fictional trade scenario.He does not improve them and I’m sure that he is way overpaid.Same thing with Pollock,the Reds won’t be helping the Dodgers out of their awful contracts, we already did that once.
As for a hypothetical trade with L.A.. for Seager (who I also think has two years left of control) I would love that but who would the Dodgers want from the Reds? Maybe two or three of our prospects and Galvis to help soften the blow of prospects/mlb ready players LA would have to give up for LIndor? Of course the end game for L.A. would be to get Lindor to put them over the top to be odds on favorite to get to the WS this year and perhaps next. Reds would not have to trade Senzel and the extra outfielders we have could be traded for a plus reliever.