The Twins entered the offseason seeking “impact” starting pitching, but it doesn’t appear they’ll succeed in that quest. They agreed to one-year deals with Rich Hill and Homer Bailey on Tuesday, and with no high-end starters left on the market, their heavy lifting could be done in that area after also retaining Jake Odorizzi and Michael Pineda.
Although the Twins may be finished picking up notable starters, that doesn’t mean the reigning AL Central champions are content to enter next season without adding at least one more established contributor to the roster. On the contrary, they’re still chasing the premier free agent available, Josh Donaldson, and have made the third baseman a four-year offer, Dan Hayes of The Athletic reports (subscription link).
Financial details of the Twins’ proposal are unknown, but it could well be in the neighborhood of $90MM. As of two weeks ago, the Nationals were reportedly willing to go to that range for Donaldson, who has also drawn attention from his previous team, the Braves, as well as the Dodgers, Phillies and Rangers this winter. All of those clubs could still conceivably make a splash at the position.
Considering Donaldson has been an elite-level player for a large portion of the past several seasons, he’d increase any team’s title chances on paper. However, his age (34) could make at least some teams wary of handing him a long-term, big-money accord. The Twins appear unafraid, though.
For Minnesota, signing Donaldson would likely mean soaring past the ~$120MM Opening-Day payroll they posted last season, as Jason Martinez of Roster Resource estimates the team’s already in that vicinity. But a significant amount of that money’s due to come off the books a year from now with Hill, Bailey, Odorizzi, Nelson Cruz and Marwin Gonzalez among the Twins’ players who are scheduled to become free agents then.
For now, reeling in Donaldson would surely mean shifting third baseman Miguel Sano to first, where the Twins don’t appear to have a clear solution after cutting ties with C.J. Cron, their previous starter. Cron’s now a member of the division-rival Tigers, while the versatile Gonzalez may be the Twins’ leading in-house candidate to man first.
Bringer of purple rain
Nicely done.
Connor,
have you seen Jim Bowden’s report yesterday that the Braves increased their offer for JD to four years? Is there any validity to that or is it just click noise?
You’ve answered your own question by crediting the source.
I mean fair enough, Bowden is usually FOS. Just the version I saw seemed kinda declarative for something that’s just speculation.
Then again, it’s Bowden…
Like you said. So I asked lol
Is this a StandUpGuy burner account? Lol.
I’d say spinach sounds like a more suspect name when it comes to burner accounts, but that’s just me
Can you give an example of when Bowden was wrong about something previously?
Well done, sir.
Love it. So obvious in hindsight, but clever too. Now I really want the Twins to sign him and this to be a thing.
You know what, I’ll say it. I don’t get it and I’ve read the article four times and I saw the movie Purple Rain with Prince in 1983. In the theater.
What am I missing lol not afraid to look stupid and ask. But I want to laugh too !!
I even checked all the names several times I don’t see an Apollonia or a Prince Rogers Nelson anywhere. Is there another Purple Rain somewhere that I don’t know about?
Thank you in advance.
Gary… Prince from Minneapolis area + Donaldson…Bringer of Rain.
Thank you I appreciate it. I guess I didn’t realize Donaldson is the “bringer of rain.” Now if I can erase my question that would be great.
Thanks again for helping a brother out.
Okay I just Googled it. He calls himself the bringer of rain. Go figure.
Bringer of Rain, a Spartacus reference?
Gary, thnx for asking. Didn’t get it either.
I’m legit sad I didn’t come up w that
Excellent, you need to patent that.
Twins FO must be behind this – remind everyone that even though they’ve whiffed on adding “impact pitching” to their rotation that they’re still in on JD. Well, they’re not outbidding the Nats, and ATL just offered four years so it’s not happeing.
Yeah, in my opinion, it is basically down to the Gnats and the Braves.
The Gnats can offer more money, but I would bet a little bit of it will be deferred, just based on their track record.
Even so, Donaldson has already stated that he’s willing to give the Braves the opportunity to match any offer he gets. So, with that being said, if all things are even, it sounds like he would love to return to the Braves. Also, the Braves would love to have JD back, because they TRULY and almost desperately NEED HIM BACK.
Without the bringer of rain, and the dugout umbrellas lol, the Braves’ lineup significantly takes a big hit in its length and production. Now, AA has stated if they lose out on JD, then they will pursue other avenues to upgrade their lineup, by trade or signing an big bat OF’er. However, even by adding Ozuna’s or Castellanos’ bat, the team will still take a hit defensively both in the OF and then at 3B. Even by adding Bryant via trade, the Braves would be taking a little hit defensively at 3B.
It is paramount to the Braves playoff chances that they add another big bat to lengthen their lineup and to protect Freeman. Without signing JD, THE ONLY WAY the Braves would not weaken their potential offensive and defensive output would be to acquire Arenado from the Rockies. Even so, that would require the Braves to not only take on Arenado’s contract, that has an out in 2 years, but then they would also have to likely give up Austin Riley, Ian Anderson, and possibly even another lesser prospect like Tucker Davidson or if they want even more, than the Braves would likely have to add a possible future stud in Kyle Muller…
The Braves can afford to lose Riley, but losing both Anderson and Muller would be really tough. Although, if the Braves could get the Rockies to eat off some of Arenado’s money, and if they can get Arenado to get rid of his opt out, then Arenado would definitely be worth losing Riley, Anderson, and Muller.
As tough as it would be to swallow, Arenado is a top two-way player, and one of the best 3B in the game, if not the best. To get a talent like that, you have to give up talent. Yes, Anderson is definitely, at worst, a solid, future #3 workhorse on a contender, and yes, he’s more than capable of likely being a frontline starter, and so is Muller potentially, but the Braves have a surplus of young pitchers. With Soroka, Fried, Folty, and potentially Newk, the Braves should have four-fifths of their rotation locked down. After those four, the Braves will still have talented young pitching options like Wright, Wilson, Touki, Davidson, and even a guy like Weigel who touches 95-97 as a starter, he has a decent change, and he has a mean nasty breaker that freezes his opponents..
Even with injuries and the volatility of pitchers, that should be enough to satisfy their pitching depth for the next few seasons as they continue to further develop their younger pitching prospects..
No thanks on Arenado keep the prospects and sign Donaldson!
I cant see the Braves traveling to 4/90 million territory to resign Josh Donaldson.
They may decide that it is more palatable to pay the dough, and take the risks instead of dealing away all the high potential young talent.
keep him out of the NL east!
N.L. Least
LEAST
The AL Central is the weakest division, and I say that as a White Sox fan. The Twins only won that many last year by feasting on 3 rebuilding teams with a bunch of guys outperforming expectations and they’ve gotten worse in the offseason (so far, at least. If Donaldson signs, that will change.). The Indians may trade off Lindor and/or Clevinger, which would start a rebuild, though it wouldn’t make them as bad as the Marlins or Orioles. The Royals and Tigers are definitely rebuilding. And the White Sox are up-and-coming, but unproven. Worst-case scenario is their guys take a step back from last year and they end up under .500 (again). Only Minnesota seems a lock to win 90, and that’s with 2 or 3 rebuilding teams and an unproven one to play almost half their games against. And *none* of them are WS contenders this year, even if everything goes right. None of them.
The AL Central has a bunch of crap markets in it.
New York
Philly
D.C.
Atlanta
Market number nine is beneath Atlanta. Process that. Those four are elite markets.
So, do markets win and lose games or do teams?
Ask the Yankees, Red Sox and Dodgers.
The Braves market dwarfs the Cardinals but the Cardinals have the higher payroll every year. The Cardinals get free draft picks while the Braves don’t because of the difference in market size.
None of those teams/markets play in the AL Central. Try again. Maybe you will get something right
They didn’t “only” win that many because of the division. They win the season series against a good chunk of the playoffs teams including the astros
DTD_ATL markets definitely help teams win as they have more money to retain players longer.
Word on the street – read what he said.
Cardinals market is massive the city of St. Louis is not. All of Missouri, half of Illinois, Arkansas etc
I think it has less to do with retaining players and more in the ability to absorb bad signing. Small market teams need to be perfect in their signings, whether it is signing up and coming/unproven players to early deals Or free agents. Big market teams can absorb a couple overpays/bad signings where small market teams can be crippled by them
The whole concept of “markets” is a bit outdated with the advent of the internet and regional sports networks like “Yes” and “NESN”.. Teams like the Cubs,Yankees and Red Sox all have large national and international followings and if your team is a big draw, your fans can literally come from anywhere on the globe……
Is this the same Atlanta market that struggled to even sell playoff tickets when they were a dominant team?
You mean the division that has the World Series winner?
The WS winner that no longer has a third baseman.
Forest, I was not aware that the season had already started
Forest I wasn’t aware that meant they were stripped of their title. Learn something new every day.
I don’t see how you could be upset at the N.L. East. Even the Marlins made some decent moves. That division is one of the toughest in baseball. Along with with the N.L. Central.
Jeeze, It’s not about the Twins……
The guy is southern based. It sure appears he want to be with a winning team and stay near home. So Atlanta is his #1 target, and he so much as has said that.
The Nationals are nice – top-tier organization playing in the most affluent area in America (the government dishes out the money to excess; the 5 counties surrounding DC are the 5 highest income counties in America). Class organization as well. Treats their payers top-notch. And DC is actually considered a southern-type city.
Anyone else bidding is primarily to run the price up. Short of the Twins (or anyone else) going to 5 years and increasing the AAV at least 15%, I find it hard to believe Donaldson goes to anywhere other then Atlanta or DC….and it sure appears it’s Atlanta that he wants.
Absolutely. I’m a Mets fan first and a Twins fan second and it would be very nice if the Twins could get him the heck out of the NL East. It’s been aggravating seeing so much talent pour into the division on the Braves, Nationals, and Phillies the past few years.
Some team will give him 5
Noooooooo
’20 will be his age 34 season and he has virtually no history of serious injury. He was bothered by a strained calf most of ’18 but other than that, he’s as durable as they come. Still plays the field well, so at worst, years 4 and 5 as DH. There may be a team option for year 5 with a buyout, but there are a lot worse deals in MLB history than signing Josh Donaldson through age 38.
Donaldson definitely has an age 36 Chipper Jones-style season in him. He might even be like Nelson Cruz, routinely giving you 35+ bombs and tons of offense every year deep into his 30s. It’s not outlandish to see him get 5 years.
Lysander: 5th year as DH……. because you’re assuming the NL is going to DH, or…?
I should have qualified with that assumption, but having said that, I don’t think the Players Union will go along. His market isn’t there for 5 if it doesn’t happen. If he gets 5, it will be team favored option with a comparatively small buyout. He would only accept that if he wants a career ending contract.
From someone who watches elder Pujols run around the bases as if he was wearing a Big Bird costume, I do not recommend a near-40 deal.
Yeah Pujols and Donaldson have the exact same body type and are identical athletes, smh – this is the problem with caring about salaries, you get burnt once then get gun shy and then think putting 4 years of AAAA guys at a position is somehow better than paying an elite athlete what he’s worth.
You are right Pujols and Donaldson are different types of athletes but I would put money on Albert being the better athlete when he was 34. His decline was quick and drastic but he was still considered to be a good athlete.
Pujols will be eating off the senior menu in a decade, bad comparison with his past discrepancies.
Of the two, Pujols will be in Cooperstown. He may have had some bad years at the end of that contract, but he had some good ones at the beginning.
Donaldson takes better care of his body and it seems he has learned how to minimize injury risks. Don’t get me wrong, an injury can happen at any time to any one.
Pujols is like 48 years old, that’s why he runs like that.
He is absolutely in his 40’s, most agree he 2 or 3 years older than what is listed. So the drop off makes more sense when you look at it like that
The steroids didn’t help either, realistically.
Hes actually about 42 or 43. Hes tripped up a couple times in interviews and the one that always comes back is that he played against Octavio Dotel in the DR. Hes stated in several interviews that hes about 3 or 4 years younger than Dotel after homering off him at a young age. Dotel is now currently 46.
Comparing Grandpa Pujols to current JD is apple’s to oranges, but c’mon guys, you cant say things like JD takes better care of his body. Pujols has one year, since *2001*, in which he didnt play 100+ games (2013 – 99 games). The dude is a solid tank (and runs like it). I like JD and wish him the best, but I wouldn’t be expecting much in that 4th year. Very few guys can produce at 38-39 at the MLB level.
Four is already bad business.
Sano is no Donaldson
True, but they’d shift Sano over to first, which would be an upgrade over C.J. Cron, even though he did do well as their first baseman this year.
Technically adding Donaldson and moving Sano to 1B would push Marwin Gonzalez to the bench.
Props to the Twinks for battling for their fans.
Did You mean belittle their fans ?
No. Not at all. I meant what it is says: Respect/credit due to the Twins for going into the fray to get a star for their fan base.
Twins and White Sox owners winning big this offseason. Cubs owners big losers.
Trying to get a non-need while missing out on much needed pitching probably doesn’t make the twins fans feel all warm and fuzzy.
The Twins have had a horrible off-season. All they did was re-sign 2 decent pitchers and leave 40% of their rotation to be filled by 2 guys who want make 25 starts between them.
Angels did essentially the same thing and were lauded by their fans, many of whom still fiercely defend the Angels’ moves this offseason. I agree with Mo that this is a big move to rejuvenate their fan base and let them know they’re serious about contending. Many teams missed out on pitching, which is why the ChiSox clearly won the offseason sweepstakes for their division.
Twins would have a deadly offense
White Sox win the Central hands down
You’re stoned
Okie dokie
My guess is Twinkie fans denial lasts about a month into the season. Twins bats come back to earth, when the White Sox catch fire.
This might be able to get them over a hump also with their pitching signings today
The signing of a guy that hasn’t had an ERA under 4.5 in almost 6 years, and the guy that isn’t going to pitch until half way through the year AND has a huge injury history?
Plus, you have to worry about him showing up to the game – May have to assign someone as a bailsman for him in case of the, you know, casual fight with police…..
I thought Bowden said yesterday that the Braves increased their offer to four years too. Granted, I didn’t directly see the tweet, but I saw several publications post about it.
plz sign him so the braves dont
Hill, Bailey and now Donaldson to finish 2019
My 1st post – great move if they get him. He’d be a good DJ too in a few years
Especially if he gets a pair Technics SL-1200’s.
Good one, I had to Google it
…and a microphone.
That was a good drum break.
Only tables worth owning.
Oops, I meant dh. Embarrassing for my first post
nice save
Don’t worry. It won’t be your last, either. Happens to everyone.
Welcome aboard the occasionally crazy train.
Welcome Dakota. While its entertaining to talk baseball, esp in the offseason, beware of the cave-dwelling creatures affectionately called trolls.
North or South?
South, it’s warmer
Booo, North is where the warriors are. Lol just hazing ya a little but for real though.
Welcome to mlbtr and Go BiZon!
Go Big, Go Blue, Go Jack’s! Thanks for the welcome.
Welcome aboard. This is supposed to be fun and your typo was.
Good on the Twins. Win that bidding war!
Not happening. It’s the twins. There will be an excuse or 2 as to why they whiff on him too
“they didn’t want our money’… same excuse as terry Ryan… then later you find the “money” was less than the other teams offered.. usually substantially…
“they didn’t want our money’… same excuse as terry Ryan… then later you find the “money” was less than the other teams offered.. usually substantially… Just waiting for the excuse.. to get Donaldson they will have to out bid all the teams and maybe substantially.. and they aren’t the Type… thats why they didn’t get the IMPACT starter… That 70 million and a walleye dinner ain’t enough.. might take 100 million..
Their pitching staff isn’t bad…. it just isn’t amazing or sexy ….
Off topic…. if we (the Braves) don’t get JD…. I will burn Utica to the ground
Love the reference.
We are warehouse workers. Do you require more proof.
They have 2 reliable pitchers, not exactly a staff that’s striking fear into anyone
This 4 year deal has potential disaster written all over it.
Rwins games would be fun to watch. Balls flying out if the yard for both squads.
It makes sense for a guy his age to go to the AL
Woooooo !….Twins come in and make this deal…..the Kris Bryant trade demand value come up big time between the Phillies, Braves, Nats and Rangers.
Calm down, the Cubs aren’t getting 3 of Atlanta’s best prospects. It’s not ideal, but they could play Camargo at 3B, and add some thunder in the OF. Donaldson is the perfect fit though.
Braves don’t have Bryant……Braves do not win that division.
If they have Donaldson, they’re fine. If they have an OF, it would depend on the OF. If they don’t win the division, then so be it. Not a huge deal. I wouldn’t trade away 20+ years of top level prospect control for one division title, in what’ll likely be the NYY year.
To be fair, as far as we know that was just Theo’s initial request. Doesn’t necessarily mean that’s the only offer he would take.
To be fair Cubs don’t need to trade Bryant.. I dont think they are going to fold on 2020 just to unload money, when they could just keep him for 2 years… I mean the team won 90+ games last year, not like they were garbage… So id imagine if cubs move Bryant then ya its gonna cost some good “PROSPECTS” , that aren’t even proven at a MLB level.. Some people dont get the difference between a all star caliber MLB proven player compared to “PROSPECTS” , no prospect is a for sure thing, just ask Byron Buxton, Alex Reyes,Bubba Sterling… Prospects don’t always pan out
Okay, well while you’re going on about the part I didn’t even touch on… My sole point was that typically in negotiations, you start off higher than what you actually want.
If that was indeed Theo’s initial request (which has been insinuated even though nobody seems to actually know), then yeah, there’s probably atleast some wiggle room in there.
As for the rest… Yeah he’s superstar, yeah they’re prospects, but prospects also hold more value these days than they did in the past and it’s only for two years of control. Getting all three of those four for KB straight up would be an overpay on ATLs part.
As far as whether or not it’s in their best long term interest to keep Bryant or move him, I’m not speculating on because I really don’t care to research all of that.. I just know they’re actively trying to move payroll. How they ultimately go about that is beyond me. But yes, if I’m the Cubs, I’m still gonna ask for the moon. That doesn’t mean I expect somebody to actually pay it though.
If I am the cubs I ask for the moon. If they don’t get it then don’t trade him. They are much better with him on the team. They can ride this out until July and see where they are at and make a couple simple moves to get under the luxury tax. If they are in the hunt I can’t imagine ownership is going to be overly concerned with another luxury tax hit. They were near the bottom of the league in blown saves and had 84 wins. No need to panic in December.
Dodgers could be in that bidding event, also.
I think that Bryant will end up in California…..one way or another……Dodgers would get to the next level. with Bryant……..but the Dodgers need to give up top Prospects…….or try to outbid everyone else after 2021 season.
Nats, Rangers and Phils don’t have much in the way of prospects. Braves and Dodgers do.
Did a cargo plane full of cash heading to Middle East make a detour to Minnesota today ?
The Twins said last year that they had money to spend. They weren’t lying.
They weren’t lying but they aren’t spending either. If they were spending, they’d have a much better staff right now.
Anthopolous needs to hammer this out. Bring him back to Atlanta. He’s giving the club every chance. Stop messing around as if this was a 4th OF we could use, but don’t really need. This is the clean up hitter!!
I feel like I’ve read this here before, and elsewhere a million other times.
Donaldson is becoming this offseason’s Kimbrel/Keuchel.
No, he knows his market and is holding out to maximize it (or to give the Braves more time?). Difference is they’re ask last year was so outlandish they priced them out of negotiating, rather than allowing their market to develop. I wonder if Kimbrel did sit out the year and re-enter the FA pool this offseason, if he might have fared better, though a year older.
We’ll see. Right now I fear we’re going to be reading slightly-reworded articles about Donaldson’s 4-year offers daily all throughout January.
Braves F.O. told him to go see what his best legitimate offer is and then come back to them and give them the last chance to match whatever he is offered and he agreed this is just his people is doing due diligence and if it’s not a crazy contract I think he will be back bringing rain to the ATL
@Brentg55, As a White Sox fan, I hope so. Without him, it could legitimately be a 3-team race if things break right for the Sox or if the Twins experience a little more regression than expected. With him, the Twins take the division again fairly easily.
You’re right on….. I hope he goes to the Braves because it would be great for baseball to see a three-team race! Plus, it’s nice to see Atlanta coming back to prominence when there was such a lengthy absence after the nineties.
In fact, they were supposed to be the team of the nineties, an unmatched dynasty, but they went only 1 for 5.
@ hyraxwithaflamethrower
Nonsense. Good pitching beats good hitting over the long run. At the very least it will be highly competitive. You’re falling for the old “this guy puts them over the top” hogwash.
Donaldson’s market is very different than Kimbrel/Keuchel last year.
That would be a big time acquisition for them. Not only do you get a premier RH hitter, you’re improving your defense in a major way. Sano is not a good defender and he would probably be a much better 1B. Going to that 4th year is kind of risky, but Nelson Cruz will be retired and Donaldson will probably inherit that position for his age 38 season. Hope the Twins poney up and get him, did not not want to see him in the NL East unless it’s the Phils.
Twins lineup will be downright awesome if they get JD. Good luck to whichever team acquires him because he will definitely improve them, and if it’s the Braves, they have to be considered contenders for the NLDS, but the Dodgers…… they’re just a really good team. However, maybe this year is a repeat of the 1996 World Series?
Agreed. And if he goes to the Twinks, it will be that much harder for the Yanks to knock them off in October… Funny you showed up, btw. I was just beginning to wonder where you were. 🙂
Nice, thanks Mo, Happy New Year! 2020 in just a few hours…. wow
Who knows? If both NY teams stay relatively healthy and play to their potential, it could be a repeat of the 2000 Subway Series, hopefully with the opposite result this time…
Yup!
That would be really cool to see another subway series; but I’d prefer the result to stay the same…. I’d have to go if they went head-to-head again, it would be insane!
I just hope the embarrassing knucklehead fans that throw crap on the field don’t show up. Leave those morons home.
Kepler
Polanco
Cruz
Donaldson
Rosario
Garver
Sano
Arraez
Buxton
Gonzalez to give guys a day off. Looks like a fun season to me!
Guy has one brush with law enforcement over a oversize container and he needs a bail bondsman assigned to him???? SMH
No he needs bail over resisting arrest. Check yer facts.
…which is even more absurd. An 18 yr old kid with a job gets an “Own Recognizance” bail for that offense.
Well, that should satisfy the people who say there is bias in the court system that favors rich people.
And, the court decides based upon all facts, not the charge alone. Bail for him is a joke anyway, but it should teach him and his wife a valuable lesson in maturity.
If Twins sign JD they should consider trading Buxton to Cubs for Quintanna/Almora
Berrios-Odorizzi-Hill-Quintanna- Pineda wouldnt be bad with
Rosario LF, Kepler CF, Cave RF (Almora back up OF)
JD 3rd, Polanco SS, Royce taking over at 2nd, sano 1st, Garver C, Cruz DH… Thats winning a AL Central divison that has Indians getting weaker
They could get better for Buxton from the Mets
Matz for Buxton could be a deal
Would Mets move Matz though? Cubs would move Quintanna in a heart beat cause it sheds a little pay roll and fills their CF void… Plus Q, Almora and Buxton all need a fresh start somewhere new in my unprofessional opinion
Mets would def move him for Buxton
They need a legit CF bad
Do they have any more pitchers , thought they traded all their good young arms for Stroman.. Trade Matz isn’t that just creating another hole? And they just traded for Marisnick and have Conforto,Nimmo, Cespedes, McNeil (prolly his only spot with Lowerie and Cano taking up 2nd and 3rd),JD davis and Dom Smith in the outfield if they ever want him to play , he’s not taking over 1st base there… Seems like a crowded outfield to move pitcher for when they don’t have a #4 with Matz upside as a #4
Buxton for Matz = no way. The only way Buxton gets dealt is if it’s for a front of the rotation guy like deGrom or Thor. It would take more from the Twins obviously, but we know the Mets aren’t letting either one of them go.
@Munkes2 please please please take Almora. Please.
I’ll be happy for Twins fans if they sign him. Great baseball city, fun team last year.
It would also add pressure to Cleveland’s ownership group to choose a path with Lindor and some of their other tradable assets. They don’t want to have to fight for a playoff spot so acting aggressively now could make them fold.
Sox win this division
Based on what? They going to win 30 more games than they did last year?
Possible. Twins added 23 wins. I, and most people, only expected them to be .500ish in 2019.
I don’t think it’s likely but I also wouldn’t count them out.
@ CONservative governMENt
Yet another guy falling for the nonsensical national narrative that the Cleveland Indians are a hand-wringing organization not wanting to win, and looking for every opportunity to fold.
Pray tell, why would they do that when every oddsmaker and analytically based projection system sees them in the thick of the race regardless of what the Twins do from here on out?
What people fail to understand is that if small markets like Cleveland don’t prune costly underperforming and aging assets, you wake up one day and you’re the Detroit Tigers or Baltimore Orioles. And the Cleveland Indians are certainly not that.
If you can’t see that the Indians are much better situated today than they were last year lineup-wise and their starting pitching remains strong with an excellent possibility of an even more-talented bullpen (it was good last year)…I mean, what in the world could anyone do to make a team like that not want to “aggressively fight for a playoff spot”?
What is wrong with people?
What is wrong with you?
He said “add pressure” and “chose a path” not anything along the lines of your 5 year old rant-
You really like to make everything your little narrative dont you?
Most people are not Indians fans, but it still makes them sick to their stomachs that they are even contemplating trading Lindor or Clevinger at this point-
Its a not a good look my man, get over it, you sound like a child trying to rip into anything and everything negative said about the Indians; even in casual contexts
That’s a nice looking lineup. Buxton in the 9 hole with all that speed and potential. Would Donaldson really bat behind Cruz, or would Cruz hit cleanup? I’m thinking Donaldson is more of a 3 and Cruz more of a cleanup. Unfortunately I dont think this team, even with Donaldson,can win in the postseason. We see it every year, you gotta have that 1-2 punch at the top of the rotation going into a 5 or 7 game series.
Totally agree on the rotation. Berrios and Odorizzi are ok, but they don’t stack up with the likes of, say, Cole and Severino or Scherzer and Strasburg.
Good question, I don’t know much about MIN’s manager style when it comes to lineups. I can tell you that Donaldson prefers hitting second, and he started the season hitting second in Atlanta due to that fact until getting moved to cleanup out of necessity.
This is a great move for the Twins Shows what an embarrassment the Detroit Tigers are to baseball with their proposal to move seats outside the stadium
As a White Sox fan, this would be the only the second move of the Twins offseason (the first being Odorizzi taking the QO) that I don’t like. I still expect some regression from your offense, in part due to a league-wide regression from a less homer-happy ball and in part because it seemed so many guys far outperformed any prior output that the new ball can’t have accounted for all of it. Then there are the losses of Schoop and Cron. Signing JD would make up for those two and then some. The pitching won’t be good, but if you average 6 runs a game, it will matter less. If they sign him, I’m guessing the Twins win about 95-97. If they don’t, I think it’s 90-92.
The Braves need to offer a front-loaded 4 year deal, 30/30/15/15, with an opt-out after the second year,
Why would you bid against yourself, Braves could get that done without an opt out or front loaded deal just by going 4 years.
Maybe he’ll take the opt-out after two. Acuna’s pay goes up to $15M that year, and the Braves will need to re-sign Freddie. I don’t really want him there after year three especially.
Go Cubs Go
Well, that was relevant.
If ATL has indeed offered 4 yr they will be the front runners to sign JD even for a bit less money. His mom (and her new Maserati he bought for her) reside here. Come sept/oct the weather is still quite comfortable, much nicer than Minn or Wash.Atl gave him the respect and opportunity last year. He’s been waiting to see if ATL was willing to do 4yrs. IMO his ATL signing is imminent or he would have already signed w either minn or wash.
Apparently Atlanta was supposed to have the chance to make the final offer, so if the Twins just offered this, I would say nothing is imminent yet.
I saw the Bowden thing too and now I don’t believe it at all
“Financial details of the Twins’ proposal are unknown, but it could well be in the neighborhood of $90MM.“
Throw in a sack of wild rice and it’s a deal.
Not necessarily. Word is, JD has agreed to give the Braves a chance to match whatever he’s offered, which suggests that returning to Atlanta is his preference. Not positive Atlanta is willing to go that high, but I don’t think the Twins are guaranteed to get him with that offer.
I think JD brought his Twin proposal to the Braves and said look it’s 4 yrs and the Braves said OK we will go 4 yrs. now he is headed back to Twins to try & get 5.
Wish the Braves would pull his card and make him make a decision. Either way get it over with & either we got him or we gotta look for a cleanup hitter for the OF.
I would much rather have JD but if it’s not him I think it’s gotta be Ozuna. That makes Waters or Pache expendable and could be packaged to get a SP.
but either way something has gotta be done soon with this guy already.
This Donaldson saga will end in the next 72 hours..
Agreed. Probably even sooner
If they sign Donaldson and shift Sano to 1b, what happens to Rooker and Kirilloff? Rooker is already a 1b but reports have also said that the Twins may move Kirilloff there, given the quality of Larnach’s bat. This move blocks potentially two players, unless Cruz retires/plays somewhere else in the next year or two and/or Rosario or Kepler get traded.
Twins are in a win now mode and nobody cares who is blocked. Windows of contention are only open for so long. They become trade bait for the SP they so desperately need.
What openly rebuilding team has the quality of SP to trade? The openly rebuilding teams are the Mariners, Tigers, Royals, Giants, Marlins, and Pirates. Out of those teams, the Mariners have Gonzales who is reliable and cost-effective. He would be a solid #3 in that rotation. The Tigers have Boyd who is inconsistent but has the ability to be spectacular. Outside of those two, I can’t think of any quality SP that are available except for Robbie Ray but the DBacks are also trying to win now.
Shark, Duffy, Boyd, Fulmer, Norris, Caleb Smith, Musgrove, possibly Cueto at some point
There are pitchers to be had
Gotta give something to get something
I can see Shark finding his way to Minnesota soon
I would think Sano and/or Rosario are traded. I don’t necessarily mean this year, but I don’t see them signing extensions either by choice or not. That would open 1B and/or LF within the next two years, if they get Donaldson.
Yeah, I’ll say it again and this is from a Twins fan – there’s no way he’s signing here. Not gonna happen. They would have to outbid Nats and Braves, which will not happen. Nothing to see here folks.
Gotta agree with this.
This announcement smacks of being a distraction to the Bailey and Hill moves which were hardly the impact pitching moves the Twins FO promised.
Sound logic often results in a sound let down.
I said it elsewhere, but to repeat. I do think Twins have a shot if they go 5 years. Twins may not want to do that, but I think that’s what it would take to outbid Nats and Braves.
Maybe…I just don’t think Twins FO has the cujones to do anything big.
Kdag 23: You’re spot on……NO WAY our passively weak ownership goes to the lengths needed to sign Donaldson. 40 year+ Twins fan who’s been conditioned that taking any kind of risk is “just not our way of doing business.” That philosophy explains why this organization has lost 13 consecutive playoff games and hasn’t won a playoff series since 2002!! Sick and tired of this. SOS.
I’d say offer him 4 years $85 front loaded (25, 25, 20, 15), that way if the NL doesn’t get the DH (hopefully) in 2022/23 he might be tradable on the last year or two.
If it’s close to $80MM, he should take it. Beautiful city and a great team.
Just can’t/don’t see the Twins winding up with Donaldson. IMO, the Braves or the Nationals will be Donaldson’s final destination. In any case I doubt $90M will be a good enough offer to get a deal done. Probably going to take 4 yrs and $100M+ to sign Donaldson.
Why not? If he’s smart he’s thinking of his late 30’s and going with the team that has a certain DH slot to offer.
Because it’s the Twins, that’s why not. They will not offer enough to get him.
First off the Twins most likely won’t be the highest offer. Second why would he care if there is a DH or not in the NL if he gets 4 yr offer from all the the teams his money is guaranteed DH or not.
that’s why I think Twins would have to go 5 years to get Donaldson
Don’t ever count out Cleveland, white Sox have done the before sign Mediacre free agents and was out of it by June
Go easy on the Screwball there, budy.
Homer Bailey, OMG. He’s awful. Great! Now sign Donaldson, trade Sano + ? to the Giants for Samardzija & Belt. Voila, the Twins have a bonafide #2-3 for their starting rotation & a first baseman with great defense, good OBP and pop that will emerge now that he’s out of SF. SF may have to eat some of Belt’s contract money. And the Giants will have a first baseman (not a third baseman, since Sano’s defense is questionable) as they rebuild.
Why would they trade sano? Signing donaldson is NOT to replace Miguel Sano – it’s to supplement him. Sano had one of the highest exit velos in all of baseball oh and his at-bat per HR rate was tops. So no dream on, he’s not going anywhere.
Yeah, not trading Sano. The JD pipe dream is supplemental, not to replace Sano. The Twins love his bat, defense at 3b not so much. I’m going to say it in every comment now – Twins aren’t getting JD.
Remember when power guys that struck out more than 150 times in a season were considered mid-tier players? Dave Kingman would have made a ton of money if he played in this era. He made around 4M total for his entire career…
So Frazier to the Braves
Ugh. No. I’d rather they just stick a cardboard cutout of Chipper out there. It’d be cheaper, and the results would be about the same.
Friedman will counter with 2 years/50 million with all 50 million being deferred.
Lol yeah great deal. All the money will be paid out from 2025-2055…3 million per year.
Donaldson would be such a beast in that lineup! He would have loads of awesome at-bats cuz you can’t pitch around everyone. I think he would instantly become a fan favorite.
Totally agree, think the fans would love him and he’d be the leader of the team by the ALL Star break
Wasn’t announce like 3 weeks ago the Twins made a 4 yr offer to him?
It sounded like it was worded “it’s believed the Twins are willing to go 4…”
Which makes it sound like it wasn’t an official offer. It was Rosenthal and a little over a week ago. Not sure if anyone followed up on it/could confirm anything until now.
It’s been out for a while that the Twins offered 4 years. This article a retread really.
I’m pretty sure it was common knowledge weeks ago Donaldson had a 4 yr offer from the Twins and Nats. This article is wasted space.
I don’t know much about the Twins farm system, but do they have the pieces to trade with AZ for Robbie Ray?
They sure do
They have a top five-ish farm, but with Ray being a rental with minimal surplus value (estimated to get 10M this year), it shouldn’t take much.
I would think, at best, a prospect in their 10-15 range plus a throw in would be enough, but that’s my uneducated guess. I’m likely way off, but I don’t think he’s worth more than that.
I seriously doubt Ray will be cheap. I agree he may not be worth a lot over his salary, but the DBacks want a lot for him by all accounts
Ridiculous. Your offer for Ray would be something one would offer for a pure back-end starter.
I know Ray’s value will be less since he is a “rental’, and while that rental is for “one year’, it’s a huge year nontheless. Would he make the Twins a World Series challenger? Would he otherwise goto the NY Yankees? Which would make the Twins fodder.
There is way more to valuing a player than only his talent (which Ray has plenty of) and control. Value in the player is also dictated by what he can do for you (even if in the short term) and what he could potentially do for a major competitor? I state this while knowing while having electric stuff and being relatively young, Ray still struggles with efficiency. Correct that and you possibly have a Cy Young type talent on your hands.
No, to get Robbie Ray, even on a rental would easily cost you more than the slog of trash you peddled. Think a prospect in the 3-5 range within the Twins system and a prospect in the 6-10 range, or perhaps two prospects in the 12-25 range.
Twins could get this done without moving Lewis or Killiroff. The headliner of the deal would be Larnach or Graterol, perhaps Balazovic. Honestly not sure the Rays would even take Balazovic despite his ranking in the Twins system and I am not sure the Twins would move Balazovic or Larnach. But to get talent you have to give up talent and while Ray is short-term (probably) prospects are still…well, prospects. Much as I like the potential of Larnach and Balazovic, neither are truly proven.
No, Ray would not make the Twins a WS contender. He’d be third in the rotation behind Berrios and Odorizzi, the stats the last two years confirm that. I’m not saying he wouldn’t improve them, I just think people highly overrate him. He’s not an ace. For the Twins to really compete with the elite teams they need pitchers who are better than their two best. Ray isn’t it. He’s going to be paid at or near what he’s worth and he’s a rental. Sure there’s some upside there, but so far he’s been incapable of unlocking it for long periods. Will he ever? May just be a BP guy or a two year wonder. Is a team getting the old Ray or the Ray from the last two years? Big difference there.
If that’s the price for him, the Twins or any team, should be able to get someone else with more team control and who’s better than Ray. I absolutely agree that prospects are only potential/unproven and there is no guarantee. I have zero problem trading prospects though I do have a few favorites that would hurt more than others to lose. But that being said, even though Ray is in the majors, for the most part he’s still unproven too. He started out great the first few years up. Where did that guy go? That’s why he shouldn’t cost too much. Any team trading for him would be hoping to catch lightning in a bottle. The Diamondbacks can ask for whatever they want, doesn’t mean they’ll get it. And reminder, I said I could/may be wrong. I likely am. Most people don’t nail trade predictions.
What I don’t understand is why the Diamondbacks would even trade? They were almost a WC team last year. Sure they lost Greinke, but Bumgarner makes up for half that loss. I don’t know if they lost anything else significant though. The only reason to trade Ray before the trade deadline is because someone offers something so ridiculous it doesn’t make sense to turn it down.
Braves and Twins have prospects that can be dealt for serious talent. Nats not so much. So Nats might be willing to offer more cash for Donaldson because they have no trade alternatives.
Which is another reason Atlanta needs to push harder on Donaldson. Keep your guy, who wants to be there; and deal a blow to your rival. Make Washington choose between running out a replacement level 3B, or crippling their farm for another shot or two.
Josh is crazy if he doesn’t run with that. $90 million? To play baseball. LMAO
If they sign anyone else I hope they win the world series. Just for spending money. N I’m a Yankees fan.
I doubt Twins get him at 4 yrs, $90MM.. It will take 5 yrs or 4 years at more money given reports that Nats and Braves have offered 4 years for unknown cost (to my knowledge). But I bet Nats would offer more than $90MM. Don’t know about Braves, and I’m pretty sure Braves won’t offer 5 yrs. Not sure about Nats but I doubt they would go 5 yrs.
Twins just need to go 4/96 or even 4/100 here if the need to-
We are talking about 3 mill extra a year here, they have literally no dead money/bad contracts right now, they can afford a slight over-pay since its really hard to attract folk of his nature there in the first place
Please Twins, sign Donaldson and get him the heck out of the National League East.
amen brother to that
Twins are in a good position to go after Arenado and a bullpen arm (McGee or Davis). Taking on McGee AND Davis would lessen the cost of prospect capital. Turn it into a 3-team deal and shop Rosario to alleviate cost. Would probably have to consider dealing Marwin also.
Twins need to sign Josh for 3b — cuz Sano isnt great at 3b — with Bailey and Hill added to the staff thats a good 5 man to start the season — Twins can pick up more pitching along the way and maybe some type of rentals at the deadline — with JD at 3b the Twins should win the division
Get him out of the NL East and I’ll be happy.
The lack of movement on JD’s side tells me it is now a case of money or he actually is giving Atlanta a last chance to match or exceed what’s on the table.
Atlanta needs to …………….. or get off the pot, they either want to sign JD or hope he will take less money. Just go find another power bat and maybe a number 3 type pitcher and wait for spring training. Frazier would not be a horrible addition, fine fielder, some power and a low average.
I’m sure AA knows Atlanta has to pony up for Freeman by 2021.
Agreed on all accounts and yea I think Freeman is the cause for the brakes right now
Still think the best route of ethier
!A)Donny
B)Nolan
c) Bryant
DNone of above
Is A) Sign Donny and keep all your prospects
Minny really needs to over-bid and feel happy about it as Ive said before-
It is more of a risk for them to NOT sign Donny than to sign him
Cant help but wonder if they hold the Morneau/Mauer decisions (both awful) too close to the vest still to this day
They have a real tough time attracting FA’s when the competition is thick, this is a real good time for them (div window/own window) to ink a player in Josh Donaldson who I feel is still a present day superstar (6-9 war player)
Throw the number at him to get it done 4/96 and steadily work that SP up the next 2 years- That pen is young cheap and nasty already