Major League Baseball commissioner Rob Manfred announced an unprecedented level of discipline against the Astros organization Monday in the wake of the sign-stealing scandal that many feel has called into question the legitimacy of their 2017 World Series victory. President of baseball operations/general manager Jeff Luhnow and manager A.J. Hinch will both be suspended, without pay, for one year — beginning today and running through Jan. 13, 2021.
[RELATED: Astros Fire Jeff Luhnow, A.J. Hinch]
The Astros will also lose their first- and second-round picks in each of the next two seasons and be fined the maximum $5MM that is allowable under the league’s constitution. If the team does not have a first- or second-round selection in either draft — due to draft forfeitures for signing a free agent, for instance — they’ll lose that pick in the subsequent year’s draft. Per Manfred’s report on the investigation, the Astros “will forfeit two regular first round selections and two regular second round selections in total,” whether they come in 2020-21 or in later seasons.
Punishment stemming from the 2017 sign-stealing scandal won’t stop with the Astros organization, either. ESPN’s Jeff Passan reports that “harsh” punishment will be levied against Red Sox manager Alex Cora as well for the role he played in the now-infamous “trash can” setup. Cora was the Astros’ bench coach at the time but was hired by the Red Sox in the 2017-18 offseason, and Manfred’s report leaves little doubt that he’ll be sanctioned heavily.
Manfred’s report outlines the role that Luhnow, Hinch, Cora and the Astros’ players had not only in the trash-can scheme but also in improperly utilizing the reply review room to decode opponents’ signs. Manfred’s report also explains the rationale for the punishment (or, in Cora’s case, the surely forthcoming punishment).
Beginning with Luhnow, Manfred details that the president/GM was “adamant” in denying knowledge of the ongoing sign-stealing scheme. However, the report cites “both documentary and testimonial evidence” which indicates that Luhnow had “some” knowledge of the operation but “did not give it much attention.” Manfred makes clear that he holds Luhnow accountable for the action of all employees, both in the front office and in the dugout, and he goes out of his way to explain that Luhnow largely neglected the memo sent out by the Commissioner’s Office regarding further disciplinary measures for improper use of technology:
Luhnow did not forward the memoranda and did not confirm that the players and field staff were in compliance with MLB rules and the memoranda. Had Luhnow taken those steps in September 2017, it is clear to me that the Astros would have ceased both sign-stealing schemes at that time.
Manfred’s report goes on to suggest that under Luhnow, the Astros’ baseball operations department has developed a “problematic” and “insular” culture that has lacked “sufficient oversight” — all of which is reflected in Luhnow’s punishment:
[W]hile no one can dispute that Luhnow’s baseball operations department is an industry leader in its analytics, it is very clear to me that the culture of the baseball operations department, manifesting itself in the way its employees are treated, its relations with other Clubs, and its relations with the media and external stakeholders, has been very problematic. At least in my view, the baseball operations department’s insular culture – one that valued and rewarded results over other considerations, combined with a staff of individuals who often lacked direction or sufficient oversight, led, at least in part,to the Brandon Taubman incident, the Club’s admittedly inappropriate and inaccurate response to that incident, and finally, to an environment that allowed the conduct described in this report to have occurred.
As far as Hinch is concerned, Manfred indicates in his report that the manager was aware but not supportive of the trash-can system. That system, it seems, was largely put into place by Cora and newly hired Mets skipper Carlos Beltran. Hinch, according to the league’s investigation, actually expressed frustration with the operation and damaged the hallway monitor to the point of needing replacement on two occasions, but he also never brought the issue to the attention of Luhnow or anyone in the Commissioner’s Office. “As the person with responsibility for managing his players and coaches, there simply is no justification for Hinch’s failure to act,” the report reads.
Furthermore, the report leaves little doubt that harsh punishment indeed is nigh for Cora. Manfred indicates that it was Cora who “arranged for a video room technician to install a monitor displaying the center field camera feed immediately outside of the Astros’ dugout.” Says Manfred of the impending discipline for Cora:
Cora was involved in developing both the banging scheme and utilizing the replay review room to decode and transmit signs. Cora participated in both schemes, and through his active participation, implicitly condoned the players’conduct. I will withhold determining the appropriate level of discipline for Cora until after the DOI completes its investigation of the allegations that the Red Sox engaged in impermissible electronic sign stealing in 2018 while Cora was the manager.
As for the players themselves, the Commissioner’s Office will not be seeking out punishment against them. That seemingly includes Beltran, who is being treated as a player (as he was in ’17) rather than his newfound role as a Major League manager. Manfred explains that in 2017, he made the decision that he “would hold a Club’s General Manager and Field Manager accountable for misconduct of this kind” and has no plans to deviate from that line of thinking. He’s also clear to note that multiple players acknowledged they were keenly aware that they were crossing a line and would have stopped had Hinch or another authority figure cracked down on the behavior — a reality that surely factored into the decision to suspend Hinch.
As for owner Jim Crane, the report indicates that he was “unaware” of any wrongdoing and will not face punishment outside of the reported $5MM fine and loss of two years’ worth of first- and second-round draft selections.
Ken Rosenthal and Evan Drellich of The Athletic first reported the news.
Wow Astros got served, Manfred laying down the hammer!
Alex Cora is sweating bullets right now…
No doubt
All I can say, n I love Cora, he is very stupid.
Whaddya expect, him and Ozzie are tight.
Pete rose bet on his own team to win and was banned for life. The 1919 white Sox banned 8 players for intentionally losing a World Series. The Astros, and possibly the Red Sox, literally cheated their ways to WS championships and got one year suspensions, and just the managers none the less. this punishment will go down as an absolute joke in the history books. At least let Pete into the HOF.
He bet on his team to win games THAT HE WAS MANAGING. In other words, if his team was down by three runs in the ninth in a game he had bet on, he had his own personal incentive to put his bullpen ace in, to increase his chances of winning that specific game specifically; even though using that ace then would make him unavailable for the next day’s game. So, no, betting on a game that you manage, which can actually lead you to decrease your team’s season record, gets you a lifetime ban. It’s far worse than cheating.
Let’s go Varitek, new manager of the red sox!
Yeah I’m good with that
An interesting thought is Jason still in the Sox organisation? Great guy.
Reggie Bars = racist.
Dude WTF?!?!
I would love Teck to be manager, Cora is gone.
I’m on board.
Alex Cora is gonna get punished very badly, especially since he was deemed the mastermind of the 2017 Astros scandal, only to now be investigated for the 2018 Red Sox doing the same thing, albeit not as severely as the Astros.
lifetime ban coming for Cora
I don’t think you actually believe that…
I do, if he is found to be the primary instigator of the Red Sox scandal as well,
I bet he’s managed his last game !
I very much believe it. Manfred made an example out of John Coppolella (Braves) with a lifetime ban for illegal international signings. I think Manfred will set a similar precedent in this case, as he should. This is his one and only chance to lay down the “never again” hammer, and i think he will. All signs are pointimg to Cora being the mastermind behind the whole operation, and he’s now tainted TWO teams with this mess. And I liked Cora a lot before all of this, but if proven guilty in HOU and BOS, i think a ban is warranted..and forthcoming.
I think he already knows he’s getting fired by the Red Sox and/or likely Perm based by MNLB.
He knows what’s coming.
If he gets any less than the same one year suspension I would be shocked.
Should have been a lot more than that bogus crap
Would you still be displeased if it involved quartering?
The players absolutely should have at least been fined. Every single one of them participated in some fashion, even if it was simply to condone and look the other way. I guarantee the fierce competitors were using it.
I was beginning to think you wouldn’t show up. Guess what: I told you so.
How about MLB knowing about this type of cheating for decades and doing nothing about it until last year? Sounds like the same type of insular culture they condemn. It’s not the first offense either (PEDs). Man Fred should resign as soon as he eviscerates Cora. For shame!!
Really? What should’ve happened is, any coaches and players directly involved should be suspended without pay for 1 year! Forfeit the 2017 season, including the World Series.
Dodgers don’t win it but, neither do the Astros.
Their 2017 season is a blank! And any other season if proven they cheated!
Tired of millionaires & billionaires getting away with whatever they want to do & only getting their hands slapped!!
Exactly!
Actually I feel they should be stripped on their championship and all that other suspensions and fines
Too complicated, once the players feel the punishment the union steps in and makes sure they keep their rings and bonuses, so it is not that easy to write off a championship.
It sounded like there was no evidence of the cheating in playoffs. The added coverage that would likely detect the cheating likely deterred that activity, or they adjusted the scheme.
Also, knee-jerk reactions of fans typically agree with the results of thorough investigations.
It was stated in the report that the Astros and every team were warned in September of 2017 and also that the Astros continued to use the sign stealing system in the 2017 playoffs and the 2018 regular season.
I did not see the part of it happening in the playoffs. If that is the case, bring on the internet horde with their torches and reactionary ways.
At minimum Lunhow & Hinch should be out of jobs. Responsibility to end the cheating was theirs, they refused to act.
Taubman gets a ban, but not Lunhow? Interesting
Taubman gets a one year ban because he is not currently employed
Of course, they will be out of jobs, no way does Crane sit on his hands and wait for the suspensions to end..Luhnow and Hinch are history as far as being Astro employees is concerned, Crane will be searching for his new guys as we speak.
Of course they are out of jobs, the baseball world is not going to stop working because two guys got banned for a year. Their contracts will be voided and a new GM and field manager installed by opening day..Although the owner is tagged with a standard 5M fine, he did nothing wrong himself..
As we see in the new post/ story following your comment about their firings.
To me, this softens the punishment on the team and ownership too much in a
MLB: “Hah! You lose draft picks, current manager and GM for two years!”
Astros ownership: “So… we’ll just fire ‘the current manager and GM’ and replace them”
MLB: “Wait…”
I just feel like there should be more put upon the ownership for their complicitness, as well. Normally, I’d say something along the lines of fines equivalent to some factor of Hinch’s and Luhnow’s salaries + the slot values of those draft picks. However, it seems that fines are hard-capped at $5MM — pennance to team owners.
just curious, will they be allowed or want to hire a gm or coach for a year?
JK, probably not.
thank you
I hope Beltran gets suspended big time, also.
I would think both would be terminated from employment.
Of course they can hire whomever they wish – the actual operation of the team is not addressed. It’s about existing personnel and the team owner or whoever is next in command can make whatever moves they want. If a player is suspended, it’s not as if they can’t sign another player.
If you bothered to read you would have noticed, it is clearly started, since Beltran was a player he won’t be punished.
Crane just answered my question lol
Beltran can’t be suspended.
Players are not held accountable and Beltran was a player at the time. He will not be suspended
It still won’t look good to his new employers in New York in his rookie manager year..
Beltran may not be suspended but he should be fired by the Mets if he is proven to be a key figure in this mess.A cheater is a cheater.
I admit I’m not a fan of no punishment for Beltran. While I believe that he shouldn’t be held as accountable as field and upper management, he should still be held accountable to some extent as one of the leaders of the scheme.
Something in the realm of 15-25-ish game suspension + hefty fine (comparable to 2 months whatever his salary was at the time), maybe.
Cry about it. We’re the champs. Forever.
With a massive asterisk*
And forever you will have to argue with knowledgeable fans defending your cheating team’s tainted championship. Choke on it.
Sure. What’s sad is that you endured 5 losing seasons to achieve this goal that is now tainted.
First of all, lol at ‘taint’. Second, those three seasons were very entertaining. It was like watching someone play MLB the show franchise mode in real life.
The Astros had a winning seaso in Luhnow’s FOURTH season, losing the ALDS.
Just for clarification.
2009 to 2014 were all below.500.
Luhnow’s first season was 2012. They were winning in 2015.
The 2017 Astros will be forever known as cheaters in the same vein as the 1919 White Sox were.
Nothing to be proud of.
The 1919 White Sox were not cheaters. They took bribes from gamblers and threw games.
Gasu1 … I hope you were being sarcastic. If not, you must work for MSNBC with that level of common sense and logic.
Gas-They were cheaters in a different respect in that they cheated baseball fans out of an honest World Series and made it a sham.
My point was that this is a significantly bad thing to do.All involved in creating this farce should be severely punished.At the very least the hitters who took advantage of it or especially if they took part in it should be named if not punished.
Coppy would really love that kind of punishment. I’m guessing he got the lifetime because of not cooperating with the investigation, while so brazen in his attempts and trying to cover-up.
Manfred needs fired. These guys all should’ve got lifetime bans just like Coppollela.
Coppollela went well beyond a league integrity issue. he was engaging in unsactioned deal with a load of minors.
Coppollela cheated with prospects in the hope of maybe someday winning a world series. The Astros successfully cheated their way to a world series. Coppollelas offense was only punished worse because he insulted Manfred personally by not cooperating. The Astros absolutely should have had the worse penalties
You know everybody better be careful what they wish for no way it was just Houston. Cora is going to get a severe punishment to but highly doubt these were the only two teams doing this. Wonder what people are going to say when it’s their favorite team that is caught up in the sign stealing scandal.
I wouldn’t care. Cheaters should get lifetime bans. Including the players.
Coppy got what he deserved, but it was a systemic problem and because he was so blatant, careless and brazen with his disregard, he was an easy scapegoat to serve to the dark lords of unwritten rules.
To see John Hart on MLB Network speak like a wayward puritan with no knowledge of anything makes me want to endure ESPN.
The “everybody does it” defense. Well, not the ones who aren’t convicted. If it’s my team I’ll be as pissed at them as I am at the Stros and Sox, though the Stros and Sox defrauded us with fraudulent WS victories. I believe dynamite drop, a Sox fan, was incredibly pissed at them. Unlike the rest of the RS fans. Interestingly, many RS fans were defending the Stros and/or sign stealing–or at least playing it down–before the other shoe dropped on them. Interesting foreshadowing indeed.
Jose Altuve didn’t help to see that flat slider coming from Chapman. Most great hitters would’ve seen it coming from a mile away, especially ones with three batting titles. As for 2017, Yankees were shut down at Minute Maid.
Vin- so every player who’s scuffed a ball or corked a bat should be banned? They’re cheaters too.
Calm down, nobody should be getting a lifetime ban. And no titles should be vacated. It’s all in the books; we can’t change what has already happened. Cheating goes on within every organization and every sport. All you can do is hand down punishments and move on.
And refusing to cooperate in an investigation is itself a crime (obstruction of justice) regularly deemed worthy of heavy punishment in legal contexts. That’s not merely a personal insult. It is “refusing to cooperate with an investigation”
Yep, it’s called cheating and it should ALWAYS be punished as it ruins sports. Now how many of you still want Bonds, Clemens and the rest of the steroid users in the Hall of Fame?…. NOT ME!
I want the MLB HOF to be consistent and it already has a few cheaters in it so either let Bonds and Co. in or take cheaters like Gaylord Perry and Pud Galvin out.
And Thome and Bagwell. I agree with your overall point there goastros123. Take the cheaters out or let them in.
There’s no way in hell they’re taking any one out so they might as well induct Bonds and co.
Really? Yet Roger and Barry never broke any ML rules, but still the lynch mob writers and guys like you would leave them out of the HOF.forever… Utter BS.
Barry cheated and will never be in the HOF. Choke on it.
Barry will absolutely be in the Hall someday. He should already be in, obviously. The majority of players were using PEDs during the time he played. They were using them at least as far back as the 70s, as Tom House has told us. And many of those 50s and 60s HOFers were on greenies.
“Roger and Barry never broke ML rules”…….. yeah, but anabolic steroids are illegal in the United States, so they broke the LAW, which supersedes. It probably doesn’t say anywhere in the ML rules that you can’t bring a gun onto the field and shoot a player as he rounds third base to score a winning run, but I think it’s understood that is not legal under US law.
Steroids and many other PEDs like HGH have been officially against MLB rules since the early 90’s if not earlier. Roger and Barry DID break the rules. They just weren’t enforced at the time.
I agree that the character clause is a joke as long as cheaters like Perry and all the known amphetamine users and huge jerks remain in the Hall. Just let all the cheaters save for those specifically banned (Rose, Jackson, etc.) in the Hall for uniformity’s sake.
However, I also want uniformity in how the PED users are treated. While I ultimately want all the deserving ones enshrined, I also don’t want to see Bonds or Clemens elected until the Era Committees elect McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro, etc.
You’re right, though, as hard as it may seem to be to believe, even your statement might be under-telling it some. Crazy thing is that the use of greenies (amphetamines) go back to the 1940s (when the vets from the German front came back with them). Chances are that almost all players, HOFers included, from the 50s-70s were users of them to some degree. And users wouldn’t have been limited to MLB. It would have been all pro sports and Hollywood (and almost certainly elite business circles as well). Amphetamines are still widely used and abused around the league. ~1/3 of all MLB players have medical exemption for “ADHD” (Note: while ADHD is indeed a medical concern that needs chemical assistance to control for many people and even some elite athletes, it’s not 1/3 of MLB players).
Yeah, the fact that they were committing federal felonies does seem kinda relevant.
Totally! Cora is next. Don’t chat & don’t bet. Thems the rules.
Cheat
C’mon now, nothing wrong with a nice chat.. lol
Eh. Name a team that wouldn’t trade four draft picks and $5M for a championship.
Exactly. Piss poor excuse for a punishment. Players should have been fined the amount of their championship shares. Minimum.
Has a known/admitted cheater ever been spared like this before? Imagine Cashman and Girardi being suspended for ARod & Pettite (& Clemens).
I can’t believe the guys who actually cheated face zero repercussions.
Yeah, just wait until you guys find out that there are many more than just 2 teams doing this, which there undoubtedly are. Save some of your outrage for all the others yet to be caught.
Damn…
What about the Red Sox? I realize the allegations from 2918 just came to light but I was expecting both to be resolved together. If the allegations are true, Cora deserves a suspension as well (based on what I’ve since read). I maybe a Sox fan but all fans and the sport deserve better especially with the explosion of fantasy and spirts betting.
Wonder if the Red Sox thing is why Cora’s punishment hasn’t been announced. Could be that they will wait to announce his punishment until they know what happened in Boston and give it all at once. No reason to hold up the punishments in the Astros process if that matter is closed (and actually in fairness you should announce as soon as possible so that they can start working on contingencies)
Don’t you people read before posting. All that info is right there, it’s a very quick read
Manfred has stated that Cora’s punishment is held back until he finds out how involved he was with the Red Sox case..
Cora will be gone for at least 2 years.
No loss should be banned for life
Could end up being lifetime if ownership knew nothing of the video situation. I can see the Sox moving on from Cora after MLB’s discipline is announced. Cheating twice in two years after 2017 watchgate? Chutzpa.
Plus a WS won in both cases, Cora will be banned sine die if he proves to have instigated the Red Sox scandal as well..
Nice penalties but it is not an effective deterrent unless the players get severe penalties too. World Series should have been stripped too
I can’t see an organization allowing this to happen in the future seeing these penalties
Agree … the qty and severity of the penalties are absolutely enough to get a manager or GM to say ‘no’… seems very appropriate
Why not??? They got the only thing that matters to them. World series gold and the money that comes with it
You aren’t going to win too many World Series when you don’t have 1st and 2nd round picks, your manager, and your GM. This will be a huge deterrent to cheating. Don’t see how anyone could think otherwise.
Agree. Vacate the championships. Don’t cheat!
They already won the world series in case you missed it. They got the benefit of their cheating.
It will forever be tarnished by this … an asterisk is in order …
In case you didn’t know this the only purpose of having prospects drafted in the first and second round is to win the World Series. The Astros got to trade a few first and second round draft picks for a World Series title. Absolutely any team would make that trade
And their GM and the manager…..AKA all organizational stability. This Astros team is still a WS contender today. Not to mention just how difficult it will be to cheat in this manner ever again even if you wanted to. If you were hoping for a lifetime ban—-then I guess you’re disappointed. If you were being a realist, this is a very steep punishment. One that should dissuade teams from cheating.
A championship that is now tarnished. Looks unearned. No not every team would do that. There are people who’s integrity isnt for sale..
Stealing signs does not guarantee a World Series title. It certainly helps, but the degree to which it helps depends on your current talent levels…and is difficult to quantify.
This is a major punishment and a major deterrent. They just fined a business owner $5 million and stripped his franchise of four draft picks (each of which has monetary value). That’s a massive fine coupled with year-long suspensions of top leadership.
Call it steep if you want, but don’t call it a deterrent. They keep the spoils of their war.
It’s easy to look back at that Astros Dodgers series and definitively say the Astros don’t win if they don’t know what pitch is coming.
You think losing your job and being out pay isnt a deterrent? No manager will allow this to happen if they know they will be suspended for a year and and fired from current position. Astros won a WS, but they were a great team. Doesn’t mean a future team will win a WS by doing the same thing and with the possibly of losing your job or the organization losing their draft picks, this will be a deterrent. Astros are the team they are today mainly because of their draft picks. Hinch apparently was against the sign stealing but didnt do anything to stop it and just lost his job for it. Cora is getting a big punishment.
But their numbers are going to drop off without the drummer. lol
I agree. They should lose the WS. However, the Dodgers shouldn’t get it either and I’m saying that as a Dodgers fan. The problem is, the Stros cheated to get there so we don’t really know if the Dodgers would have won if the Astros didn’t cheat because LA may have been playing the Red Sox or Indians if the Astros hadn’t cheated in beating those teams. There’s no way of knowing, so they should have just taken it away and had no WS winner for 2017.
Yeah, it’s good to breathe in the fresh, clean air emitted from my Blue Jays, championships or not., Lol
Yes, how can I help you?
They should forever be referred to as the Asterisks.
Why would that matter? They’re not going to give their rings back
You guys asking about Cora should do one simple thing read the article. It answers all the questions you have. It seems every big announcement on here a bunch of guys ask a bunch of questions that are answered. Reading is fundamental in understanding.
You should be aware since you know it all, that this article started out with only 4 paragraphs with the words “MORE TO COME” at the bottom, So quit acting so superior! there are always reasons for questions!
Compass, original article didn’t mention Cora or Boston.
The players have a union, that is a difference-maker..
LETS GO!!!
This is worse than I really imagined. Kinda had to make them to example though, but wow.
agreed. dont understand why some are so angry. theyre paying dearly and this punishment is unprecedented. about as much as could be expected, and well beyond what i thought Manfred had the guts to do.
Has no choice given all leagues have married into gambling. If he did nothing, Congress could easily get involved. Cheating scandals and sports gambling go to together like…
Worse? Name a team that wouldn’t trade four picks and $5M for a championship. Name any other player who has ever been clearly discovered to be cheating and got ZERO punishment. Barry Bonds is thinking, “Man, if I could know the pitches and face ZERO repercussions, I would do that in a heartbeat. I would have had 1000 HRs and be in the HOF!”
If anything, this might deter PEDs. Illegal sign stealing has been given the A-OK (for players).
Agreed, this is overkill. There’s no way Hinch deserves a one-year ban, what a joke.
Wow wow wow wow wow
Gotta be more to come. What about Alex Cora?
Right? He was in Houston for the 2017 cheating and in Boston the following year when similar cheating is being alleged.
His discipline will be handed down after MLB finishes its investigation into the Red Sox.
No the Red Sox allegations aren’t anywhere near as severe as the Astros’. If he was involved in both it will be the Astros portion that loses him his job (and I think it will).
but Cora was with the astros and cheated with bosox so he’s going down
It’s most certainly just as severe, and I’m a sox fan. Using the leagues replay room to steal signs is as deplorable as it gets and the Sox should be given a severe slap too.
What I said is factual. MLB is waiting to finish the Sox investigation and then will lay down overall punishment for Cora. Rumor is that it is severe.
He’ll get a punishment for his role with the Astros and then a separate punishment for his role with the Red Sox. Gonna be legendary.
If that was the case, he would have already got the first one surely. I think they are deliberately waiting to see how deep he is in it on the Red Sox case and if it’s up to his neck, he is gone for good.
Good!!!
I think this is good enough. Can’t strip them of the WS because what does that really do?
MLB should donate the $5M to Puerto Rico and Australia.
How about donating it to a cause in this country, like maybe wounded veterans, homelessness, or feeding the hungry?
Puerto Rico is this country
Oh snap!
Lmao. Oh yeah Puerto Rico is owned by the US! But what about the homeless in the Continental states!!!!
lol, the parent comment.
Puerto Rico is part of the US.
Totally agree … my heart goes out to the Aussies but we have so many peeps in need , let’s take of them
Puerto Rico is a United States territory, and they just had a 6.0 earthquake. They need all the help they can get, especially because the federal government isn’t doing enough.
There’s a good amount of Puerto Rican’s and a handful of Aussie’s playing baseball and contributing to the game somehow. How many homeless people are playing?? Zero!
Kidding. I’m all for helping everywhere we can. While every penny counts, not sure what the full $5M does to help the 500K+ homeless folks in America. Homelessness is a much bigger issue and a political topic so I’ll avoid it for now. What I do know is that we have fires that need to and can be stopped immediately in Australia that impact us all (believe what you want – I’m a fan of science and logic) and that there are Americans on an island without power.
And quite sad that you didn’t know Puerto Rico is part of the US.
Go Sox! (The clean white ones that have cheated since 1919!)
The O’s are pretty close to hiring homeless people.
They are super cheap, and help get those high draft picks!
I think this is exactly what needed to be done above and before all else, strip cheating teams of any titles or pennants. Is this not what they do to cheating schools in college? Vacate the championships. This is why they play. To win. Take it that winning away from the fans, the players and the owners. You shouldn’t get to fly the flag forever when you cheated to get it.
lolz. y’all are clueless. They divvy it up 30 ways. That’s why MLB/NLF are so quick to suspend players- so they can keep the money they are owed for themselves and pretend like they have a good image in the process. But it’s just corporations getting richer at the expense of working people- the american way
This is exactly what I feared (if this is true). It goes into a community pot that’s divided amongst all the teams. Stupid.
Wow! That’s severe.
As they should. Red Sox penalty coming soon.
Did not expect the 1-year suspensions. Interesting
….up next….Alex Cora
Red Sox next?
I think that’s the right punishment. It shows that the league is serious.
owner/team hasn’t been punished.
You don’t consider a 5 million dollar fine, the loss of their gm and manager for a year and [most importantly] the loss of 4 high draft picks punishment for the team? Flummoxing.
$5 mil? peanuts!
When you consider they won a title… yeah, it is kind of light in my eyes. 5 million dollars is nothing compared to what that title brought them, and those games. So that is a drop in the bucket don’t you think?
That team is still gonna be a good team without their Skipper, so you figure they should at worst still be a playoff contender of a team, so those picks are bottom half for the drafts. So really, glorified 2nd and 3rd rounders.
And then losing their GM. That is probably the biggest blow.
Honestly, it is light. MLB banned Pete Rose for betting. I am honestly kind of surprised a stiffer penalty wasn’t drawn out for a team that won the World Series potentially because of this, or at the very least influenced by it.
That’s … that’s just a dumb comment.
You had me at “flummoxing”.
@dynamite No i don’t consider it punishment enough. Nothing is going affect the cheaters. They are probably laughing at this judgement. As an individual, you cheated and nothing happened to you. 5 million to an organization is nothing. Loss of draft picks is only going to hurt the organization down the road, maybe 2-5 years. Most of the cheaters will have moved on by then. Why not punish the people that cheated?
5 million is the max penalty. They can’t go higher than that.
Teams aren’t a bottomless pit of money.
Mr. Angel Fan
“Why not punish the people that cheated?”
Agreed. Players should have been fined the equivalent of their championship shares.
Can I have a bag please, hold the salt.
Owner hasn’t been punished? Who do you think pays the $5mil?
Au contraire. He loses his manager and GM for a year, and his top two picks for the next two years. He most certainly has been punished.
Drafts picks is punishment. The only thing more would have been to strip the ws title…
I don’t understand why individual players escaped punishment for cheating.
Me niether…players should be suspended. cheaters. This is extremely light. Multiple people should be banned for life.
Because there’s obviously no evidence that specific players are involved. What are they supposed to do, wear earplugs so they didn’t hear the banging of the trash can?
If the players are being told to cheat by their employers then they are “working as directed” and will not be punished for that.
I think you guys are underestimating the loss of those draft picks. It vacates the bonus money assigned to those picks—that can ruin an entire draft for a team. Losing your first and second round pick for 2 years is a very steep punishment.
This whole deal is a steep punishment. Is it deserved? sure. But it is steep. The Astros will certainly feel the punishment. You also have to keep in mind that Elias left their FO—w/ other personnel and Taubman was recently fired as well. That’s a huge brain drain from the FO.
I’m fairly confident that the Astros aren’t laughing over this punishment.
Exactly.
@DTD_ATL
ALL players and coaches were at least complicit if not active participant. All benefited. None did anything to stop it. They should have ALL been fined.
The players union, that’s why. Manfred wants no part pf a union battle over this..
Owner I’d agree with, but team hasn’t been punished? Did you miss the loss of 1st & 2nd round picks the next two years?
Owner is Manfred’s boss. They can only go so far against Crane.
lol,. thats nothing. They get all their players interanationally anyways.
5 Mill is the max fine, whoever the team owner is.
As Don Draper once said, “That’s what the money is for!” $5 million hurts no matter who you are.
Also, losing those first and second round picks for the next two seasons will hurt them pretty badly in the long run, having less organizational talent to develop or use as trade chips.
Lifetime bans or bust.
I can get behind that for luhnow, certainly.
Just because you don’t like him? Did you want Cashman banned for all of the Yankees’ PED cheaters? (While letting ARod and others face no punishment?)
You’re talking about an individual here and there vs. a whole team and management with the Stros. The GM, Manager, and every coach and player were in on it, whether just being complicit or active participant. As for the NYY, there is absolutely no evidence ANYWHERE that Cashman was involved. Neither was Girardi. So there’s no comparison if you apply logic. A-Rod made his own bed and he’s admitted it and he’s sleeping in it. Can’t say that about much of any other PED user.
I agree that the Astros thing is worse. I just don’t understand how players don’t have to face ANY consequences. THEY cheated. THEY got all the benefits from cheating. Cheat via PEDs = harsh suspension. Cheat via sign stealing = ZERO punishment. Or maybe it’s only zero punishment if you get a bunch of your teammates to do it too? If Cashman organized PED doping sessions, ARod would have been in the clear? I can’t stand the players getting a free pass here.
For the record, I do not think Cashman should have been fired for ARod taking steroids. And I don’t think he knew about it. I have no problem with the Astros GM and manager getting suspended/fired. BUT… I also think the people who ACTUALLY CHEATED should be held accountable as well. (I see elsewhere on the thread that you agree with that.) I think the cheaters should face the harsher penalties… but they didn’t even get a slap on the wrist.
maximum allowable fine under the CBA, loss of cheap talent through the draft, need to rebuild the entire staff of the team. do you really think anything else could have been levied?
DarkSide
“do you really think anything else could have been levied?”
YES. Fines for ALL the players and coaches. They were ALL at a minimum complicit if not active participants. They ALL benefited. None of them stopped it. They ALL should have been fined the amount of their Championship shares.
Barry Bonds and ARod are thinking: “Man, I picked the wrong way to cheat. These guys got ZERO punishment! And knowing the pitches is MUCH more help!!”
Ouch!!! much harsher than I expected and honestly harsher than deserved. Why not just have more sophisticated signs and you don’t have to worry about this.
It’s not the sign stealing that’s the violation. It’s the illegal camera.
They deserve every punishment and more …
Scumbags
Shoeless Joe Jackson didn’t cheat and was out of baseball from 1919 on, a lifetime ban. Players used steroids and some people still want them in the HOF. This isn’t harsh enough. Cheat and win cannot be accepted.
@bravesfan When no one is on base, the signs have always been one signal and easily deciphered. When there is no one on base there is no need to have elaborate signs. The Astros were using the camera feed and relaying to the hitter. This is information that would otherwise be unavailable.
Not everyone took role in the cheating, , but the system was primitive so it would be easy to uncover the individuals that cheated.. Other athletes despise other athletes that take shortcuts. The individuals that cheated should not be given a get out of jail free card.
Even the players who were not active participants were complicit. They benefited from the cheating through the success of the team. None of them stopped it. They ALL should have been fined.
Well deserved. However, it is safe to assume every team cheats (sign stealing, etc). So far the Astros and Red Sox got caught.
No it’s not.
I think most teams do conventional cheating because no one rats on you for doing it.
Even if someone did rat on them, sign stealing is not technically against the rules. It’s sometimes frowned upon and definitely may earn someone a heater to the thigh, but not technically against the rules. Using technology to steal signs however is against the rules.
The Yankees got fined in 2017 for using phones incorrectly to give info and there were people yelling signals out at some games. There are a LOT of dirty hands in this scandal that just haven’t had someone rat them out yet. Bobby Thomson hit the Home Run Heard Round The World against Ralph Branca and won a World Series because of stolen signs. You think everybody isn’t doing it?
What I think is nonsense is this idea that in a game where signs are constantly changed there should be protection for any of them. Any player can go to their hotel room, load up MLB.TV and watch the signs from that night’s game, knowing chances are slim that they go to an entirely new set of signs the next night. Coming up with different signs for 162 individual games would be utter chaos and it isn’t happening. So learning signs is no big deal.
MLB protecting them so harshly makes such little sense. It’s a part of the game for teams to figure the whole deal out, hence why the changes to the signs constantly. A player at Second can see the signs, hence why they change them. Seriously it’s a cat and mouse thing, not an official part of the game, that’s not really something that needs to be an official rule, IMO.
@Robert Poole
“The Yankees got fined in 2017 for using phones incorrectly or to give info and there were people yelling signals out at some games.”
Yankees got fined for HAVING a phone, not for a) using it incorrectly or b) giving out info.
Also, they were not fined for people yelling out signs at some games. In fact, no one has any evidence of that.
You’re spreading misinformation, a euphemism for lies.
And you are spreading this crap for the purpose of spreading the “everyone does it” defense, which itself is crap.
If the Yanks get accused and convicted, I will be the first to condemn. I am not like so many Stros and Sox fans who will defend their cheaters. (I don’t defend A-Rod either). But they haven’t been accused or convicted. You’re lying.
You have the naivety of a toddler if you don’t think all teams cheat.
You see the problem is you can’t just pigeonhole everything under one category of “cheating”. Do all teams use some sort of gamesmanship to take advantage of teams with holes in their signs? Probably. Do all teams use video and HD cameras and four to five man teams to parlay the info live? Probably not.
DTD_ATL
“You have the naivety of a toddler if you don’t think all teams cheat.”
Prove it. If it’s ubiquitous, it should be easy to prove.
Seriously I am so sick of this ridiculous equivocation. Using the video replay technology to “steal signs” is not the same as 1950s guys figuring out signs with their eyes and brains.
Stealing signs is stealing signs. Whether they were “using their brains”, clapping, using flash lights, using whatever… stealing signs is stealing signs. And it doesn’t need protection. Signs are not an official part of the game.
I can’t disagree enough.
The 1951 Giants, one of the “ridiculous equivocations” you refer to, stole signs using a telescope in center field and relayed what pitch was coming using a buzzer wired from the bullpen to the dugout, but sure, let’s call that their eyes and brains.
No. That’s a lazy and inaccurate way of thinking. I think it’s fair to say that those two teams aren’t the only ones. But it’s completely unfair to say they all do it.
Uhhhh, no.
i think everyone has agreed that “cheating” using whatever information that’s available to you on the field is perfectly ok in baseball. it’s cheating using technology/cameras that’s not ok. big difference.
If the Mariners have been cheating Manfred should ban all the coaches gm and everyone for life for sucking at it so bad. One funny thing I saw was they were cheating against the Ms.. Why did they waste their time?
I’m surprised by this. I was only expecting a massive fine and loss of draft picks. If I’m the Luhnow, I’m being petty as hell in 2021 and bringing in any disgruntled player or employee from other teams to bury them as well lol.
If you’re Luhnow, you should be happy you didn’t get a lifetime ban.
Wow
And the Cardinals are “cheaters” lol
Well….they are. So what’s your point? You think this lessens their hacking. Nice try.
They hacked Luhnow to try to expose him before it was too late.
Luhnow STOLE proprietary analytics directly from the cardinals and didnt even change the passwords. He lied about them developing it after leaving the cards becauswe they were using it the next day.
Hacking is wrong but the astros never got a slap on the wrist for there part. caRDINALS GOT ALL The punishment
Idiot of the day: Simba
Let me guess: its the bar tenders fault when someone gets a DUI.
Nice logic, einsten. Try learning about personal accountability.
Dram shop law and civil responsibility say yes, it is the bartenders fault.
Ok clepto. I think i said the hacking was wrong. what do you want? Why werent the astros investigated at all. Theft is an actual crime last i heard. a clepto like you should understand.
Maybe instead of calling people names you could learn to read. You dont have to be Einstein.
Maybe because they didnt need to investigate since nothing wrong was done. Fact. Period. No worry, you still get your award.
Ok clepto. I think i said the hacking was wrong. what do you want? Why werent the astros investigated at all. Theft is an actual crime last i heard. a clepto like you should understand.
Well you seem to have all the facts. Mind sharing any?
This has to be former scout Chris Correa chiming in during his 30-minute internet allotment during supervised visits to the library at his correctional facility.
Correa is already out of prison.
I guess this exonerates the Blacksox too? SMH
Astro fans outrage in 3…2…1…
I’m an Astros fan and I am completely fine with the punishment.
Same here.
Any fan of any team would trade this punishment for a title. This was weak. Personally, I’d say they should have gotten the equivalent of the SMU death penalty.
After the fact, yes considering the options. Would Red Sox fans in 2004 have wanted to win their first championship knowing their PED players outperformed the Cardinals PED players? Would you have watched in 17 if you knew your team cheated their way to the pennant? I can’t speak for everyone but I know I wouldn’t want to win that way.
Well said. And with integrity, which is sorely lacking around here.
Haha. There will be no outrage! Their players admitted to cheating and only the manager and GM got punished. That’s a huge sign of relief you hear coming from Astros fans. And if you asked Crane or any Astros fan if they could go back and do it differently, would they change anything, I think most would say…. “Eh…. 4 picks and $5M for a championship? I like it.”
YESSSSSS LETS GO OAKLAND
Yep! Let’s go Oakland!!!
LET’S GO OAKLAND!!
I would say let’s go Oakland too. Get the he’ll out of dodge.
Houston will still win the West. Hinch is good, but not that important to the Stros.
the owner just fired the manager and GM, have fun with that
But what about the damn trash cans?? They get off without a penalty??
That’s just a lot of garbage!
Manfred didn’t want them to flip their lids.
they get a Hefty fine.
Lay off the trash cans, they already got their beating.
they’ve had their fill of garbage said about them
So much trash talk in this thread
Drummed out in disgrace.
When reached for comment, Oscar The Grouch said, simply, “I love trash”.
Wow! Buckle up Boston, you’re next.
Cora could be looking at a lifetime ban. Whatever happens it’s pretty clear that the consequences will be severe.
Damn! This is definitely setting a statement. Way to go MLB.
Sending a statement would be taking away their WS title.
While I understand the logic, that’s opening Pandoras Box. You could argue WS titles of teams with steroid users could be stripped…thin line there.
It’s really not. Steroid use is on an individual level. What the Astros have done is on a franchise/organizational level. A collective cheating over an individual acting on their own. In order for the Astros to pull this off you have involvement on 4 organizational levels which includes players. People monetarily benefited from this cheating. That being bonuses, endorsements, salary upgrades. While taking roids will benefit the individual player is such ways this is on a much larger scale.
this issue is beyond the level of a symbolic punishment. nothing besides an economic hit on those involved would be worthwhile.
Should have been harsher. But that said, I think it’s hard enough that those of us who play against them all season are going to be satisfied that due justice was served.
Short of lifetime bans, isn’t much room for “harsher.”
That is what I was after. It seems from the report that Cora was the biggest driving force and he should receive the lifetime ban.
How about “any punishment at all” for the guys who were actually doing the cheating?!?!
I’m shocked at the contrast between suspensions for PED users and the lack suspensions for players who cheated in a much more effective manner.
Players are protected by their union the staff are not.
@nymetsking
“Short of lifetime bans, isn’t much room for “harsher.”
FINES. Player Fines. And coaches, too. That would have been “harsher.”
bob9988
“Should have been harsher. But that said, I think it’s hard enough that those of us who play against them all season are going to be satisfied that due justice was served.”
But will it stop anyone from stealing signs technologically in the future? That’s the question. Without hitting the players with fines, I wonder.
If you’re a player inclined to cheat… you’re stopping the PEDs and hiring a camera man. Why not?!?! Worst case is your manager gets the ax.
This is about a big a penalty as they can get. Good on Manfred. I feel bad for all the Astros fans who will now hear doubts as to the legitimacy of their team’s championship.
Should legitimately be stripped of the championship.
Everyone knows them for what they are and that title will never be considered legitimate.
Exactly
I don’t think you can do that. The game was still played. The Astros had an unfair advantage, but the Dodgers don’t want a hand-me-down title. It’s just a bad break. I suppose you can simply say no one won in 2017, but that sort of ruins the history aspect of the game and diminishes a lot of hard-earned stats (for non-Astros) for that year.
It’s a real tough situation. I think so far the MLB has done a great job of handling this.
You think Patriots fans are worried about the Cheating Belichick has done and gotten away with. Trust me, Astro fans will be just fine because they have a title. There can be some skepticism towards it but ultimately, that title is there.
This is a little different as the evidence of the Astros cheating can be seen throughout their championship season. It directly calls into question everything. The Patriots scandals are a little harder to prove.
But you did call them scandals.
@Saint
“Astro fans will be just fine because they have a title. ”
It’s up to us to let them know at every turn that no one thinks that title is legitimate.”
Sox need to can Cora like yesterday. Damage is gone tho ‘18 will forever be asterisked because of that little worm.
He’s done plenty with cans already.
Ha! Nice.
I’m not surprised about the suspensions and I called the loss of draft picks and that they would get fined lmao.
Well done mlb
Can Lunhow appeal so he can lock up Springer before sitting out for a year?
No, he cant.
How ironic that Hinch is wearing his “October Ready” shirt. They were definitely ready.
Awesome. This is the way to handle this.
Cora is trash, and should be banned from baseball. He’s a two time offender (that we know of).
I agree.
A.J. Preller is a three time offender. The only thing he’s “won” is beating Luhnow to that very short list of suspended GMs. However, Luhnow beat him in length of suspension.
Cheaters need to go.
Except for players. If you cheat via some means, yeah, you get suspended. But if you cheat via OTHER means, your GM and Manager get to take the fall for you!
Los Angeles Dodgers 2017 World Champions
The Dodgers would never want a hand-me-down title like that. It sucks that we’ll always have doubt in the back of our minds about the 2017 Astros, but that’s the reality.
You should ask them rather than speak for them.
Correct
As the Astros lost all road games and won all home games against the Yankees, the Yankees have as much reason to complain as the Dodgers do.
But like the Dodgers, the Yankees would not want a hand-me-down. They want to earn a title.
Joe Says….. the Yankees were shut down by Astros pitching at Minute Maid so no. Besides, seeing as you’re Yankees fan, your team is very talented so they’re gonna be fine.
Joe is just glad he didn’t get suspended and fired when his players were found to be cheating! (ARod and Pettite)
That happened back in the old days when players were punished for cheating.
THATS IT?!
Any precedent for a GM suspension?
Braves GM got a lifetime ban for his role in the international signing scandal. Plus loss of 13 players and international signing restrictions for 3 years.
A.J. Preller got suspended a couple years ago for not disclosing medicals in a trade
Guess it doesn’t matter now that Crane fired them both
I don’t understand exactly how this works. Do the Astro’s now hire a new Manager? I’m a Sox fan, if Cora gets suspended for that amount of time do we have the bench coach step in or hire someone else?
wondering the same thing.. I would guess bench coach and bring in someone to back him up?
Sox should have fired Cora the second the Astros report came out. He will be handed a heavy punishment once the Sox investigation is completed. Wouldn’t be surprised if he’s booted from the game.
Totally agree. There will likely be consequences for the Boston organization, but their best course of action in the present is to terminate Cora. In any event he has very likely managed his last game in Boston or anywhere else for that matter.
Does suspension mean no pay for Luhnow and Hinch?
Think so. Which lessens the $5M fine for Jim Crane if he doesn’t have to pay them
He also loses his manager and general manager for a year. There’s a reason he’s paying those guys in the first place—they’re good at their jobs.
these guys are crooks…lunhow will still be managing from his house. watch.
Agreed. What they did costed opponents millions. They and the players are crooks.
I read somewhere else that they’re suspended without pay.
Lol, take a wild guess.
I hope Cora is suspended for the season too. He was Hinch’s right hand man and seeing as the sign stealing continued with the Sox, I’m sure that he played a prominent role in the Astros scandal too
Cora will NOT be suspended for the Astros cheating. He left the team. That’s like Dave Dombrowski getting suspended for a year for the Red Sox cheating. He’s already gone.
Just because you leave the scene of a crime you helped commit doesn’t mean you’re exempt from penalties/consequences of that crime.
That’s like saying player “X” can’t be suspended for PEDs because he was caught using while with another club.
So according to your logic Dave Dombrowski will be suspended.
Also.., Cora will be suspended BEFORE the Red Sox investigation is complete. Okay I’ll look for the headlines.
Or you could just read the article and it says Cora will be judged by his Red Sox actions.
Some people here don’t think before they post.
That you want any part of Cora knowing what you now know is telling about your character.
Mo ?? What are you talking about?? Who wants any part of Cora ?? You make zero sense. Again.
And then you attempt a shot at a person’s character.. so what does that say about you ? Weak post.
Astros fan here. More interested in hearing MLB’s response than the penalties. Sounds like it was endorsed from the top down. Losing the picks really hurts but the issue MLB still needs to address is how they plan to fairly enforce this going forward, what other teams are involved, how far and when did this occur and how they plan on handling players ratting each other our going forward.
This is the outcome I expected. The ‘Stros will be fine but if mlb cant address the issue league wide this is just the beginning not the end of this.
Luhnow should be banned for life, and players should have had suspensions as well. Other than that, good job MLB.
The banners need to come down at their stadium. It’s symbolic and it should hurt.
Ohh. Interesting. So they’re still champions, but not allowed to celebrate it as much as other teams. Not an awful idea.
It’s probably worth noting that this isn’t official yet, just a Ken Rosenthal report and we all know how reliable ol’ Kenny is #sarcasm
how about the guy that requested the scouts to cheat? im thinking it was Vice president?
Just curious if there is a Union for managers/executives? If s would they be able to appeal?
Why would they appeal? They do not get suspended unless they can prove their guilt? The whole MLB stance has been a cover up is worse than the offense.
Yeah real harsh when they get to keep their WS and all the player bonuses for winning. If your cheating and its a super close WS , than obviously you stole it. If im the Dodgers, i want my money.
Me likey. (Bangs on trash can)
well that was more than I thought it would be
yep, but sadly way less than it should be. everyone just knows MLB leadership is weak so expectations were low.
WS title should be vacated too.
It essentially is vacated. No one (outside of meatball Houston homers) will give any credence or respect to that title. It will forever have an asterisk next to it.
In your mind, yes. In reality, no.
Haha… and predictably, right on cue, enter the delusional “meatball Houston homer”. Perhaps you should stay off Twitter, and pretty much all the baseball related sites as fans, media, players are echoing my sentiments. THAT is the reality. That championship means nothing. For your case, I hope that ignorance truly is bliss @goastros123
That’s fine. The true reality is that the championship stands and MLB will not put an asterisk by it in the record book. Like I said: in your mind, sure. In reality, no. For your sake, I hope you never have to wake up and smell the roses. Lol.
Should have had to vacate the title and take down pennants
The pennants need to come down at their stadium, 100%!!
Agreed
I’d still rather they strip the title and give very stern warnings to those involved. This is far from a slap on the wrist but I think it says using questionably legal, emerging techniques made possible by technology is a valid way to win titles. Here’s hoping there isn’t another such scandal down the line.
So as a Red Sox fan… what is Cora getting? PS, if he cheated he deserves to be punished too, no exceptions.
Separate punishment, probably lifetime ban
How is this dropping the hammer, anyone associated with this management wise should have been permanently banned from baseball, I know I going to get flak for saying this, but this is weak sauce when you actually think about it. They got a World Series out of this penalty, and still have their core together.
Spot on. It’s nothing compared to what the Braves were slapped with.
Agreed, but there were a lot of reports at how bold ATL was with their malfeasance while Coppy supposedly did not cooperate with investigators, at one point, which is partially why they threw him out. That being said, he didn’t have the reputation that Hinch and Luhnow have before this. Coppy stepped on a lot of toes and burned a lot of bridges, so it was easy to cut him off permanently.
Whatever Coppy’s personality flaws were, he tried to gain an advantage at the lowest level of the game, while Astros cheated at the highest level. This is a slap on wrist.
@RunDMC if this is the weak punishment for this crime I say for the Braves to go for it and start stealing signs. I will take this punishment all day everyday if it means a ring
agreed…its sad really how light this punishment is. This punishment encourages teams to cheat.
Draft picks hurt the most, no doubt
It’s four draft picks (4 players) + $5M. It’s really nothing. They’re not banned from signing players internationally nor are they handcuffed from signing free agents.
Woof! Cora about to be suspended for life
Does Manfred’s salary count against the Yankees payroll for luxury tax purposes?
Haha!
Weak slap on the wrist compared to what Coppolella and the Braves got hit with.
Not as severe as punishment to Braves where accusations did not include competition advantages. Descrimination against the south by New York continues. Sure did not hit Yankees or Bosox as hard.
Agreed. Total bias favoring MLB’s darlings. Total BS.
Well if yall southern folk would a not made usall make war om yall we we woild shirley like ye better. We dint like ye all the way up here cuse ya madem us kill r kinfolk. N wat did ye get fur the war? Jest a bunch of ded kinfolk and the hatred uf we guys up nurth.
What stupid and ignorant comments. Cora will be banned fort life. Boston will lose picks and FO people involved will be suspended. Wait until the final punishments come down on Boston before whining about being picked on.
Your first paragraph is the epitome of “stupid and ignorant.”
Isn’t Houston in the South? I don’t understand your point.
New york? What did they do?
They should have taken the WS title from them, too.
Cheaters don’t deserve it.
You guys don’t seem to realize how unfeasible that is. You can’t punish 100s of players and coaches and employees like that without proof of their involvement. The draft picks will kneecap the team for some time.
It really isn’t that difficult to say “we’re vacating the 2017 World Series and there will be no champion for that year”. The NCAA has done it several times despite any factual evidence of the involvement of specific players simply because the UNIVERSITY was found to have violated an obscure rule nobody actually knew about.
This is documented cheating and MLB has every right to vacate the World Series. That’s not punishing the players, that’s punishing the organization for organized and orchestrated cheating. You were on the team? You knew it was happening, period. This isn’t a courtroom, guilt by association is guilt enough for me.
It’s four draft picks (4 players) + $5M. It’s really nothing. They’re not banned from signing players internationally nor are they handcuffed from signing free agents.
its nothing. four picks. lol give me a break. so weak its sad.
I think Houston got off easy. They could have gotten lifetime bans.
The entire franchise? What?
The whole city!
The whole planet Houston?
For starters, ;^)
How about the Houston players?? The people who actually cheated?!? ZERO punishment. Not even a slap on the wrist.
Players union. would fight it..
I don’t doubt that. But what’s the line here? Players are no longer punished for cheating? Because… the union would fight it? I see PED suspensions still coming down… so not ALL cheating is OK. Just some cheating. Or maybe it’s only if you get a lot of your teammates to cheat with you… then you’re all safe.
Those draft picks can kill an organizations farm system quickly. Good job MlB
Not really. Baseball draft picks are way overvalued.
Fair punishment. Should be interesting how they handle Cora. Being rid of Cora doesn’t necessarily hurt the Red Sox.
Being rid of Cora? He won the World Series in his first season as manager, albeit he may have cheated his way to that, too, but it certainly would hurt to lose him. I’m a Yankees fan, so I’m all for Boston sucking.
Whatever happens to Cora determines the direction of Boston’s 2020 plans. If he’s suspended for a year, there’s no way they don’t trade Betts, Martinez, Price and Sale. Their window to compete with the current group ends when Betts walks out the door in 10 months, so they might as well get a head start on the future if they have no real manager.
Bob Brenly won a World Series in his first season. What is your point? Cora proved in 2019 he’s not the manager for the longhaul. If I have to explain it to you then you aren’t paying attention to Cora’s methods as a manager.
Disagree with your second paragraph. Red Sox aren’t throwing in the towel if Cora is suspended for a year. They will throw in the towel when they are mathematically eliminated from competing.
Dusty Baker can step in, no learning curve, great results w Nats in his 2 years there. Sox should consider, he’s a class act which Boston now needs, they’re bigger cheaters than the Astros imo.
Same thing occured in game five of last years playoff by STL vs. Atlanta.
Huh? You are saying the Cardinals cheated on the road?
No that was just an offensive explosion and the best team not only won but destroyed that stupid tomahawk chop!
Perfectly legal.
Not enough. If Coppy got banned for off the field cheating these two definitely deserve a lifetime ban.
Hard to believe cheating to that level. You’re a pro? You’re good? What’s that say about you that you resort to this type of chicanery? As a competitor why would you want it “handed’ to you? I just don’t get it. Satisfaction of winning the world series should come from the true accomplishment. Instead now the Astros will be looked at as frauds. You guys cheated, you got the big payday, now you’re being held to account. How does it taste now tiger? A sad day for baseball, I’d argue worse than the fixing scandals of the early 20th century (Black Sox) where the players threw games because they were being wildly exploited by millionaire owners. I don’t like it, but I GET THAT. What the Stros and BoSox did I don’t get.
As many Stros fans here demonstrate, they’re perfectly willing to enjoy the title, no matter how tainted we all say it is. Or so they say.
I think they should have banned them from the playoffs and the loss of picks for one season. That way it punishes the whole organization more effectively then suspending manager and gm.
Banning them from the postseason punishes the fans, though. Stripping Houston of the 2017 World Series would have been an appropriate punishment, but there’s no sense alienating an entire fanbase three years after the fact by giving them no reason to show up and spend money on their favorite team.
Houston is a small market and MLB knows that if it alienates the fans by taking away their reason for watching, those fans will never come back. Arlington and the Rangers aren’t that far up the road.
When Cora and the Red Sox get a similar punishment (the organization perhaps even more so, since this is their second offense related to sign stealing) it will likely play a significant role in whether or not they can sign Betts to a long term deal.
I don’t puff my own chest out here, but I was spot-on with the Hinch suspension in another thread posted last week about MLB getting ready to hand out punishment. I did suggest Luhnow would be suspended indefinitely, which was wrong, as well as some other admittedly absurd things that I knew wouldn’t happen.
I did half hope Manfred would have the stones to vacate the 2017 World Series, though, and I’m disappointed that hasn’t been done, at least according to this report. Obviously, the final decision could be different once MLB announces it.
Raise the limit from 5 mil to 200 mil. I wanna see ’em have to fire sale to pay the fine. (My Reds could get Correa :D) Then they can hire the team from Major League. Idc what anyone says, I’d still pay to see Charlie Sheen pitch and Wesley Snipes flop 10 feet in front of 2B.
Should of hit them in the international market as well, but overall good work.
I would have liked to see them lose international bonus money as well but this is still good. I wonder if Astros fans will still swear they did nothing wrong
Damn, much harsher than I anticipated.
huh…you are joking? they stole a world series and they only got 1 year. This is nothing.
And the players who cheated…. nothing.
John Coppy, Braves GM, gets lifetime ban for financial improprieties dealing with 16 year old international prospects and ASTROS GM gets 1 year for cheating during WS!!!! THIS IS A TRAVESTY!!!
Carlos Beltron has been named in this too so do u fire the parties involved if you are the Astros owner.
Carlos Beltran is the manager for New York Mets. How is the Astros owner going to fire him?
Yeah, he’s the manager of the Mets. He’s already serving his sentence.
If the Mets had any integrity, they would dismiss Beltran.
They should be forced to hire Neal Huntington as an interm GM so he can strip the organization of any prospects for has been starters.
And hire Dusty Baker to be their interim manager. So he can destroy every young arm that they have.
LOL.
That would violate their 8th amendment rights lol.
Alex Cora deserves the Pete Rose treatment. BANNED FOR LIFE. Astros and Red Sox should be stripped of their titles. This is worse than the Black Sox scandal IMO.
There are no laws broken here, just so you know.
The lifetime ban was not due to legal reasons. It was due to gambling affecting the integrity of the game. Same issue with using electronics to cheat, steroids, and other cheating advantages that are illegal and create uneven playing field. I wouldn’t be upset if he got a lifetime ban. But at the least I think you have to give him two years.
Drama much??
This is what I expected and it’s reasonable. I’m curious as to how Houston does without AJ Hinch.
They have over $200M of talent that will play. I’m sure they’ll be just fine. It’s really a matter of how the players will perform under more scrutiny now that they’ve been outed as needing outside help to hit good pitching.
That’s far more important than if the field manager or GM is around.
hinch is a monkey on a keyboard. that guy hasn’t made one lineup or bullpen decision in his time there. The comp and analysts run that team and radio down to him. I’m surprised you don’ t know that, its well known i thought.
They will get Duquette and go in a tailspin. lol
Wow, I recommended a similar punishment but more harsh. I’m actually surprised but hopefully this will keep future teams from cheating.
Congratulations to the 2017 Dodgers on their first world series win since 1988!
Win for Vin is complete!
Except in the record books it says the Astros won.
It certainly does not discourage players from cheating in the future. ZERO punishment. It does the opposite, actually. Encourages this form of cheating over PED usage. (And this is much more helpful!)
Asterisk next to their WS championship.
I wish they would have taken their 40 man roster down for three years at 37, 38, 39. This would have been awesome to see them work out of.
As an astros fan, I’m glad to have this over with. The whole offseason I’ve felt unexcited and kind of demoralized with my team. The Astros are really the only reason I follow baseball closely. I couldn’t be a fan or any other team. I hope the astros can move on from this.
They’ll move on from it.
My favorite reaction to this mess. Nicely done
They should add an asterisk next to the World Series stats stating they cheated
BAN the garbage pail hitter!
it’s literally up to the Astros on whether to fire that person lol
Brewers will be the other team discovered to have cheated.
Does this mean they can’t sign free agents with qualified offers attached?
they can, if one of the draft picks is the one that has been taken away, the draft pick being taken away rolls into the following season
This penalty is crap.. how are you going to stop the GM from working at home and around the ballpark.. The manager can still make certain decisions via text/email before a game etc.. 5 Million is a slap on the wrist and a few draft picks.. give me a break!
I disagree. I think it’s pretty severe.
you don’t think that sort of thing is going to be monitored? this isn’t 1962 anymore
It’s not? Dangit! I was planning to go to the first ever Mets game.
Do they get to appeal it?
What’s the common denominator here? Alex Cora. Maybe he’s the “cheater” in both instances and should bear the brunt of punishment. Fire his arse!