Before shipping him to the Diamondbacks, the Pirates discussed Starling Marte in trade talks with the Mets. But it now seems the New York organization lacked especially serious interest in the veteran center fielder.
According to a report from Andy Martino of SNY.tv, the Mets declined to pursue any of three possible trade structures proposed by the Bucs. That included separate “package” scenarios “centered around” either J.D. Davis or Brandon Nimmo as well as one based around multiple top prospects.
It’s not especially surprising to hear that the Mets were disinterested in skimming from the top of their prospect pool. The club has recently parted with some notable young talent — most notably, in this memorable swap. The ultimate deal that did take place featured two quality, but far-off prospects from a well-stocked Arizona farm that could more readily withstand the loss.
Perhaps it’s also understandable that the New York org was not inclined to move Nimmo. He has had a few ups and downs and missed a big chunk of 2019 due to injury. But he’s also a rare talent in the on-base department, delivers value on the bases, and can play all three outfield positions. Through over a thousand career plate appearances, Nimmo owns a sturdy .254/.387/.440 slash — good for a 130 wRC+ that tops the career mean of teammate Michael Conforto (125 wRC+).
The most interesting news here is that the Mets were not really willing to discuss Davis in order to reel in Marte. True, he’s just 26 and has yet to reach arbitration (though he likely will next year as a Super Two). And Davis turned in a hefty .307/.369/.527 batting line with 22 long balls over 453 plate appearances last year. He rode a .355 BABIP to get there, though that was driven by exceptional contact numbers.
Clearly, the Mets believe that Davis can keep banging. It’s hard not to like what he showed last year. And he was a consistent producer in the minors, though his earlier MLB action didn’t leave cause for optimism. There’s some risk that the offensive profile isn’t an especially sustainable one. Of perhaps greater concern is the fact that Davis isn’t much of a contributor in other areas. He graded as a very poor baserunner (-2.8 BsR). While Davis is capable of lining up at the infield or outfield corners, metrics have generally panned his glovework.
It’s always hard to part with affordable, controllable players that have produced at the MLB level. In that regard, it’s hard to fault the Mets. But this is a season in which the team needs to win, and the roster would be in much better alignment with a true center fielder and one less corner piece. Whether there’s any realistic possibility of landing a new option in center isn’t clear. But there are likely still trade scenarios afoot involving some of the Mets’ corner players. More so than Nimmo or Davis, it’s still tough to know just what the team will do with Dominic Smith if he remains on hand.
Mets should trade one of Davis or Smith. roster is crowded enough, and one never knows if either’s season was a fluke.
Agreed. I’m surprised they didn’t take the Pirates up on the Davis offer. I guess it depends on what else was in the package, but a Nimmo-Marte-Conforto OF would’ve been pretty good.
caveat: Andy Martino is the source of these rumors, so grain of salt…
Bc Davis hits better and is under control for 5 more years. Pretty simple.
You assume Davis is going to keep hitting like he did last year. Remember, he hit .175 in 2018 on a team that was literally telling him what pitches were coming. He’s far from an established player, and he’s not a better player than Marte, Even in Davis’s best season, he was only worth 1.0 WAR. Marte was worth 2.9 WAR last year. I would have taken that trade in a heartbeat.
Fangraphs predicts a 2.9 WAR for Marte and a 1.3 for Davis. Another aspect is that, assuming health for both, Marte is a 650 PA guy, while Davis will be subbed out for defense often enough when they go with Nimmo-Marisnick-Conforto.
Of course you say that, do you know what else it would have taken besides Davis? Like all of us, you don’t…
I think it should be understood by all participants on MLB Rumors, that much of what we discuss on here, are in fact rumors.
For all I know, maybe PT asked for Alonso. But I am merely speculating on Davis.
marte is the better player rn bc of defense..
But Davis is a better hitter.
Davis had enough at bats last year that you know it’s not a fluke. Unlike he 2018 season.
Yes marte will put up better war bc of his Defense compared to Davis. But Davis is the better hitter.
His percentages were slightly better for one year. That doesn’t automatically make him the better hitter. Given he only has a one-year track record, Davis is at best equal to Marte in hitting (Marte had far more runs, RBIs and Steals), which doesn’t make up for the defensive gap.
I’m not saying I’d want Marte over Davis, but to say Davis is a better hitter is downright silly. Your homerism is rich. Davis will never be the player Marte is. So maybe I am saying I’d want Marte over Davis. Wait…um…yep. I’d definitely want the player who is better in all 5 tool categories. Davis will never be the player Marte was or still is. Mets missed a big opportunity. Marte is grossly underrated. But he is allergic to walks. You’ve got that.
Bro Davis literally out hit marte last year.. what are you talking about.
This is why the Mets will again disappoint in 2020
Dude – Marte is a 5 tool player that does everything well. The Mets blew this one bigtime!
I’m done arguing this. You’re clearly a homer whose mind cannot be changed. Davis is not a better hitter, and he will never be a better player. The one thing Davis can do better than marte is take walks. Other than that, Marte is better in every facet of the game. Bottom line.
Trade a good hitter for something like marte?Davis and smith (less likely) could very well be better hitters than marte. Ik Davis is for a fact. I’m ok with maybe trading smith.. but you don’t trade Davis just to trade
im not saying for Marte, (im not a big fan myself) im saying you could better manage your assets by trading one of those guys for something else of value. (perhaps package one of them with a SP for RP help or prospects)
Oh I see. Yeah maybe but I think Davis is more valuable to us than If we trade him. Idk maybe smith… but I love smith lol
“For a fact” lol, okay, sure.
Davis should already be a Pirate through the Cole trade
Since we dont know the exact package they turned down the numbers the Mets players put up are irrelevant. Jeff Todd is making assumptions about things that he knows nothing about. This post is sort of shaped in a “since this, then that” kind of way but its nothing more than an opinion for which he doesnt have enough facts.
So, rumors. What are those doing on this site?
Smh I never understand takes like the above. Why come to a site that is designed to give rumors along with relevant context (which they do very well) and then get mad when you see a rumor with relevant context..
because articles like this are shaping opinions of the readers without any actual evidence. I am attacking the context more than anything.
Don’t see how it shapes the opinion of readers at all. He cites a source, gives the contextual stats about the players mentioned, and discusses the more obvious implications of what the means from a Mets perspective (i.e., if they weren’t willing to discuss a trade centered around JD Davis, they likely believe Davis will continue hitting). Pretty straightforward imo.
My favorite are the posts where people say ‘how do we know how this ‘prospect-for-star’ trade will work out? I will pass judgement in 5 years.
Of course no one in here knows. We’re two guys in a bar speculating about possible trade scenarios, and how they will work out. That’s what fans do.
Or the all-time great “you have never played sports at a professional level, which means your can’t critique Player X for being objectively bad in comparison to his peers”. People are crazy.
I think that is fair.. How do we know what else was asked in that Davis package.. it could have been one of those same top prospects. We are not given what Pitt really thinks of these players. After reading this I feel like its implying the Mets made a mistake by not taking the Davis deal and therefore shaping that opinion.. I do not always convey a very good ‘tone’ in my text and that is my fault. Reading what I said again, I did not intend for it to come off so harsh or mean.
Hey man, it’s all good. I try to defend the writers on here sometimes because I feel like they get unnecessary criticism for providing an extremely useful resource (and they typically do a good job of staying objective in my opinion), so apologies if I came off too strong as well.
Brodie is growing in wisdom. If Nimmo is healthy this season, he’ll put up all star numbers. we haven’t seen peak Nimmo yet.
He can certainly hit. Shouldn’t be in CF. The Mets have too many LF/corner OF, 1B, DH-type players in the non-DH league. They need to trade the excess to fill specific needs…like a CFer! I don’t blame them for passing in Marte as he probably shouldn’t be in CF now either and they have cheaper options for corner OFers.
Funny about the Mets and the Red Sox. The Mets have no centerfielders and the Red Sox have three. Of course, that might change soon. I think the Mets can get by with a rotation in center. It would be nice to have a true center fielder but not if the cost is prohibitive. I really like the Mets pick to replace Beltran, waiting to see what the Red Sox do for a manager. Love to see a 1986 rematch.
I’ve been thinking the same thing for about a year. If we pick up Margot in the Betts trade, for example, the NYMs should be looking at JBJ for a lesser prospect.
Or something a little more over the top like Conforto+ or Nimmo+ for Benintendi. I’m not sold on Benni in CF, but he would like do a good bit better than Conforto or Nimmo there. From our side, even subpar fielders can generally play LF at the Fens.
Agreed. He should have been the Mets pick from the start.
This was out in NY yesterday. Who knows what the real story is. He claims pirates wanted current MLB players yet they trade for really far off kids. Don’t know why he is talking about it now? Bitter he didn’t get Marte? Mets fans can care less about not getting him.
You should care.
Agreed. I don’t see how this story makes much sense. But I’ll play pretend for a minute…. If the package was around Nimmo or Davis and he declined to even listen— Then he obviously didn’t want Marte. There’s only so many positions on a baseball field. He couldn’t start Marte, Conforto,Nimmo, and Davis at the same time. (Before considering Marisnick, Dom Smith or Cespedes) That doesn’t really make sense that he wouldn’t listen.
And from the Pirates POV—why would they want a guy with 3 years of control back as the headliner? That also makes no sense, and is the polar opposite of what Cherington actually did.
Pirates asking for too much. Nimmo or Davis our 2 of our top 5 prospects??! Wow…LOL.. both will likely outhit marte next year.. good luck with what you got from the DBacks lol.
Where does it say 2 of your top 5 prospects?
It was reported by Mets beat writers not here
Lol, 2 of the 5 best Mets prospects couldn’t crack other teams top 15, their system is pathetic.
Keep playing without an actual MLB caliber CF’r.
You’ll have 1 starting pitcher left in 2 years and these guys are worried about giving up 2 more of their bad prospects. Might as well just empty the tank at this point and try to win, cause this team is going no where in that division without help.
You clearly don’t knowwhat your taking about..
Nimmo Marisnick is a perfectly fine CF combo with nimmo getting most of the playing time..
Mets roster is as good as any NL East team
You are clueless, as always.
Thier roster is not better than Atlanta or Washington.
Not to mention the fact of how thin they are in the organization.
They are completely screwed with some bad luck to the starting staff and have nothing in the minors to cover for injuries or make trades while Atlanta is stacked.
Another first place ribbon for darkside!
It comes down to the fact that Starling Marte just isn’t that good. And it’s only 2 years of him. Not worth top prospects
Luckily the Pirates got a few top prospects for him.
Statistically speaking Marte was a top 30 performer last year. The prospects they got from Arizona would be top 5 in the Mets system. I’m glad you don’t care the Mets didn’t get him but don’t just spew falsehoods.
Mets had salary constraints and gave up valuable pieces in year one of VanWag . They are holding onto assets unless someone wants to take Cespedes off their hands and free up some payroll.
I don’t see that happening. No one knows what Cespedes has in the tank & it wouldn’t free up that much salary unless he reaches certain numbers. Besides, what would they do with the freed up payroll? FA signing season is over.
How do you fit Davis, Nimmo, Conforto, Grichuk, Cespedes, McNeil and Smith into four spots in a non-DH league? And not a real CF among them.
well grichuck is not a met. Smith and Davis off the bench. McNeil at 3B. Cespedes, Nimmo, and Conforto starting OF.
When did Grichuk get traded to the Mets?
I was hoping I missed something yesterday, but I’m gonna guess theres another Grichuk in the Mets system who also plays OF?
Dont get a Jays fans hopes up
Davis or McNeil will be at 3B. Cespedes may not be ready to play, & Smith is a backup at 1B who can be thrown in at LF. Marisnick is the only true CF on the roster.
I realize you mean Marisnick instead of Grichuk. Marisnick will take over Lagares role as the defensive center fielder. McNeil will be the starting 3B. Assuming no trades, Cespedes is healthy to start season, and no position player non-roster invitees crack the 26-man roster, the five-man bench will be Davis, Smith, Lowrie, Marisnick and Nido. I’m not sure if Davis or Smith have any options left, but it’s hard to see them being sent down.
Mets crowded OF depends on what Cespedes shows in ST. After 2 heal surgeries and a significant fracture can he cover territory or is he a DH only. If he hits well in ST, another team may be willing to deal for him leaving JD/Dom in the OF mix for LF.
The Mets need a CFer, but Marte is probably better off shifting to a corner OF slot at this stage of his career. So passing here isn’t a big issue. The bigger issue is they need a CFer. Nimmo is a joke out there. Mets still have no idea how to build a roster.
Lol you’re clueless
Clueless would be thinking Nimmo is an option in CF. My dead grandmother has better range.
neophyte, his range isn’t the issue at all. He can run very well and cover ground. His arm is junk and his read on the ball in CF is not strong. Learn what you are talking smack about before you speak ill of the dead.
“his read on the ball in CF is not strong”
You mean one of the main factors in a center fielders Range? Lol
They have a DH at catcher.
DH at second.
No actual 3rd baseman.
Why not put a left fielder in center again?
They should put rosario at first and alonso at ss to complete the comedy show.
With all due respect, is Cano really a DH, with a .736 OPS? While using a juiced ball?
McNeil is perfectly fine 3b who is an elite hittter. And nimmo was ranked a top 10 CF by shredder again your clueless
FG ranked the NYM defense as #26. I’m curious about who dragged down their defensive scores.
Rosario graded as worst S.S.defensively. Got better but that brought it down. Nimmo was hurt a lot so Conforto played center. Davis is not good in the field. Mets need improvement there but biggest thing is not blowing 15 plus games in the 9th.
Really hard to believe that the Pirates wouldn’t want Brandon Nimmo, who comes with 1 whole season of control longer than Marte…….Or that they didn’t want a guy without a defensive position in JD Davis.
Really no surprise this deal didn’t come to fruition.
Never mind I read that incorrectly. Not sure why the Pirates wanted Nimmo. Considering the 180 they pulled by getting 18 year old prospects. That makes me highly skeptical that this story is true. If true, I’m not sure why BVW wouldn’t entertain the offer. Marte comes w/ only a year less of control. BVW has been making “all in” type moves since he’s been with the Mets. This one doesn’t really pass the smell test for me.
I agree,especially when you consider what they did trade Marte for.
Nimmo had a bulging disc in his neck,I’m not dealing much of anything for him.
The Mets farm system just doesn’t have much that is attractive to other teams.
“Clearly, the Mets believe that Davis can keep banging.” – kind of funny when you consider he was on the 2017 Astros
Muts
Speaking of range, Nimmo seems to be able to track and catch balls. Your grandmother must be pretty good. Anyway I never understood the fascination with Marte. Nimmo is better and so is JD, offensively at least.
No part of Davis’ game is better than Marte. And Nimmo might be better someday, but not in 2020. Marte might not be the right fit for the Mets, but it’s certainly not because either of those guys are better.
No part of Davis game is better??? Davis is a flat out better hitter bruh… numbers don’t like Davis had like a 890 ops If not mistaken.. has marte come close to that??
Depending on what the real price was, this looks like a mistake. If I were given a choice between Davis & Marte, for value purposes, I’d pick Davis.
But in context of the NYMs roster, I’d clearly rather have Marte. Davis-Nimmo-Conforto is an awful fielding OF. And with Marisnick & Smith coming in off the bench, Davis is redundant, Still good, but the NYMs continue to have a poorly constructed OF.
Joe, how can this story be true? If he didn’t want to give up Nimmo or Davis. Where in the heck did he plan to play all these guys? Alonso gets every start at 1B. You have to play McNeil at either 2B or 3B everyday. You have Cano’s boat anchor salary on your team—he’s going to be in the lineup most days. Jed Lowrie is floating around their somewhere also.
Then in the OF you have Nimmo, Smith, Davis, Conforto, Marisnick, and maybe even Cespedes at some point. How are you adding Marte to that collection without subtracting someone? And if you’re not willing to give up Nimmo or Davis—were you even interested in Marte in the first place? I would say probably not.
I wouldn’t be shocked if BVW leaked this garbage and the only rumor that was true was the third trade proposal. Where the Pirates asked for prospects for Marte. Possibly a PR or clubhouse strategy where he makes his players feel like he wouldn’t trade them. That narrative fits a little better in my opinion.
If you add Marte, you subtract Davis, The whole point of this is that the NYMs have too many corners, and no true CF.
Everything else you mentioned is just a sunk cost. McNeil should be the 2B, but that ship has sailed. Lowrie has no spot on the team, but you already signed him.
Right now, the NYMs are a collection of players,with a huge amount of redundancy. The only thing they can do to improve the redundancies is to trade a corner OF for a CF.
What they should’ve done would’ve been to add Lowrie to the deal. Tell PT that they can have Davis for 5 years, which is a good get for PT, add in Lowrie and eat $6M. PT gets a 5-year starter, a useful piece in Lowrie, and the chance to move Lowrie later if he is healthy.
Why does everyone think Conforto is such a terrible defender? I watched about 140 Mets games last year and felt he played a really good CF. He gets great jumps, positions well, throws well, makes diving catches and makes the plays over his head going away from the infield. Add to that 30/90 and you have a pretty elite player in center.
The biggest issue is the handcuffing that Cespedes has on them. Is he going to play or not and if he does, in what gear? How many days a week is he going to be on the bench, unavailable? I think our outfield situation plays itself out rather quickly:
Cespedes is trades or dl’d before the season starts.
Cano is busted for ped’s, moving McNeil to 2b full time.
Cespedes is busted for ped’s used to heal after surgery.
Trading for Marte just wasn’t going to happen unless Cespedes was somehow flipped in the process.
1-It’s not so much that Conforto is a bad fielder, in general, it is that none of these guys are legit CFs.
2-Guys like Cespedes can be flipped in these trades, if the GM is motivated. I said the same thing for Lowrie, but if the NYMs were willing to pick up $3M of the remaining $6M. If PT wants a better prospect, then they should be willing to take on more salary, with the benefit of moving that salary later, if the player proves healthy. The NYMs move a salary and clears an unnecessary roster spot. PT gets a better prospect and a bingo chip.
I’d much rather have the two prospects that the Pirates received rather than JD Davis. It’s not even close really. The Pirates are not close to contention—JD has no real defensive position and the Pirates have a 1B. They also have a pretty solid 3B prospect on the way. So you’re looking at a corner OF slot for him in Pittsburgh. A place he quite clearly does not belong.
I find it hard to believe these rumors were even true. Even if you remove Cespedes and Lowrie from the equation you have too many players for too few slots. Davis,Nimmo, Marte, and Conforto cannot all play at the same time. Unless you’re willing to put Davis at 3rd and McNeil at 2nd. —That puts Cano on the bench which I’m quite positive is not going to happen at this point. Jettisoning a guy like Lowrie who doesn’t project to play all that much doesn’t really help things.
So pirates reached for the moon for quality and took what they could get in the end
Yeah, they were forced to settle with a team’s high end prospects. What a horrible return!
The Pirates received talented players back, they’re just very young and very far away which leads to higher risk. A comparable return from the Mets would have been something along the lines of Matt Allan and Andres Gimenez.
Darn, we diehard Mets fans thought Jed Lowrie, Felix Milan, and a bag of broken bats would get it done.
I don’t understand why non-Mets fans are knocking the Mets for not trading for a true CFer. As a fan of a division rival, I think that I can speak for all of the Mets’ division rival fan bases in saying that we are looking forward to seeing the Mets OF coverage of Cespedes, Nimmo and Conforto…occasionally McNeil, Davis and Smith. I personally can’t wait to see them covering ground in Marlins Park.
The greatest pitching staff in MLB history should love this OF core.
Davis, nimmo Conforto
Ces. Marisnick
Is a better OF than the marlins will have in a long long long time
Ok now I’m just thinking you’re high.
Mets fans, how do you feel about that opening paragraph?…that “the New York organization lacked especially serious interest in the veteran center fielder”? Many of you have posted here and elsewhere, wistful looks at what could have been with a true center fielder on the roster. The NY FO wasn’t motivated to competitively bid for Marte. What’s that say about your FO?
Hey, I wonder what @Dan Hunter has to say about that considering he already had Marte in the Mets lineup and in CF because they already made the offer that the Pirates would trade Marte for.
Mets where really a hard sell to begin with. The best option for the Pirates would have been Dom Smith more so if they where looking to move Bell either in trade or back to the OF if they got a quality first basemen.
If it would have been Smith as the headline then pretty much any not bad catching prospect like Mazeika would have been a good headline for the Pirates and not horrible for the Mets given that he is fairly blocked at the MLB level more so if Marte was on the team. I would have really considered that on both sides.
Smart Mets, try another year without a center fielder.
Maybe theyll get one when degrom is 40.
deGrom is the best pitcher in the game today, bar none. If I were starting a team tomorrow, he’d be my first pick.
Jeff Todd, ever the Mets critic. They could land an in his prime Willie Mays for nothing and he’d gripe and criticize the Mets. In this case, Marte is NOT better in CF than Nimmo. I’d call it a draw defensively. JT would criticize them if they HAD traded for Marte. No winning with Todd as A Mets fan. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Clown.
Pirates clearly didn’t want a major league player that is a known commodity because they’ll have to pay his arbitration salary soon. This gives them two young guys that can possibly pay off when they are ready to compete.
Rosario graded as worst S.S.defensively. Got better but that brought it down. Nimmo was hurt a lot so Conforto played center. Davis is not good in the field. Mets need improvement there but biggest thing is not blowing 15 plus games in the 9th.
Double post
Im glad we didnt make any of those deals..
If Marte was 28 with 4 years of control..then i wouldnt have minded Gimenez and Peterson for him. But at 31 with 2 yrs of control….id rather keep Nimmo a nd Davis. If Nimmo can reach his ceiling (.285 15-20hr 75 rbi 15-20 sb .400 obp 850 ops) he isnt that far off of Marte. Davis can be thr DH after this season…and his ceiling as just a hitter is pretty high. Marte would have been nice…but not at the price point.
As a Pirate fan I am happy with the trade we got. Two young guys with tremendous up side as opposed to a couple of almost ML ready guys with minimal up side that can help us stave off a 100 loss season for the next few years. I like the gamble of the new management team!
Too many are forgetting the salary difference between Marte and Nimmo or Marte and Davis. It’s around 10m this year.
Is Marte really better than 5 years of Davis plus the premium bullpen arms available for 10m, to a team like the Mets with a very iffy pen? Very probably not. In addition, the Mets dealt two useful minor leaguers for Marisnick. on top of his 3.3m salary. Why do this only to then sign a sort-of CFer like Marte?
You end up making this offseason even more incoherent than it already is. Add in the cost of Marte’s salary and it means the Mets have made only trivial improvements to the team at a cost closing in on what Cole Hamels and Josh Donaldson cost.