Dec. 3: The trade is official, tweets Passan. The two sides will make an announcement today, it seems.
Dec. 1, 8:49pm: Cano has indeed waived his no-trade clause, per Morosi. It’ll be Cano, Diaz and $20MM for Bruce, Swarzak, Kelenic, Dunn and Bautista, Heyman tweets. The trade will save the Mariners approximately $64MM, Johns notes on Twitter. It should become official “late Monday,” Sherman reports.
8:10pm: A deal is in place, pending physicals, Tenchy Rodriguez of ESPN Deportes Radio reports (Twitter link via Jon Morosi of MLB.com). The trade could be announced as early as Monday, Martino tweets.
3:38pm: The aforementioned “work” to be done on the deal, per Ken Rosenthal on Twitter, is tri-fold: The commissioner’s office must approve the amount of money exchanging hands in the deal, each player must pass his physical, and Robinson Cano must give official approval to waive his no-trade clause. Per Rosenthal, the trade should be announced “early next week.”
Nov. 30, 6:24pm: The Mariners are only expected to chip in something in the mid-$20MM range to cover Cano’s salary, per Passan (via Twitter). Seattle will still be absorbing the two significant contracts, of course, but it seems the New York org will be paying for about half of Cano’s contract (while also presumptively paying Diaz in arbitration).
Meanwhile, there’s still work to be done on the deal, which Joel Sherman of the New York Post tweets will not be concluded this evening.
8:15am: The Mets and Mariners aren’t expected to formally announce anything today, Heyman tweets. That said, Newsday’s David Lennon suggests that the parameters of the deal are largely believed to be in place, so the lack of a Friday announcement doesn’t indicate that there’s any kind of snag in the deal.
Nov. 29, 11:56pm: Bautista would indeed be the fifth piece going to Seattle in the deal, as currently constructed, Sherman tweets.
11:30pm: McNeil will not be included in the trade if it is ultimately completed, per Sherman. Instead, he tweets that the Mets will send Kelenic, Dunn, Bruce, Swarzak and another reliever to the Mariners. Notably, Sherman reports that medical info has still yet to be reviewed, and Cano has yet to waive his no-trade clause (though there’s no expectation that he’ll veto a trade that would send him back to New York City).
10:15pm: It seems that the two sides haven’t quite finalized the group of players who’d head to Seattle in the deal. Martino tweets that the Mets are still “hesitant” to include McNeil and are currently proposing right-hander Gerson Bautista in addition to Kelenic, Dunn, Bruce and Swarzak.
Obviously, that’d be a fairly substantial change to the deal’s perception; Bautista is a flamethrowing young righty with upside, but he’s yet to find success in the Majors or even the upper minors. McNeil, meanwhile, looked like a potential big league regular in his rookie season with the Mets this past season.
Puma had previously tweeted that McNeil wasn’t in the trade as of yesterday, though there’s “some thought that may have changed today,” so it seems as if the organization could be on the fence about whether to ultimately include the promising 26-year-old.
8:40pm: The trade is “expected to be completed by Friday,” tweets Passan. He further clarifies that it’s not yet clear how much money the Mariners would send to the Mets to help offset Cano’s remaining contract. Sending Bruce and Swarzak to Seattle would effectively leave the Mets on the hook for $86MM of Cano’s salary, and it seems fair to expect that Seattle would add some additional cash to help further offset the financial commitment to Cano.
Mike Puma of the New York Post tweets that things have advanced to the point where the Mets have begun to formally alert players to the fact that they’re in a deal that is on the verge of completion (albeit not yet 100 percent complete).
8:08pm: The offer on the table, at present, would see McNeil, Kelenic, Dunn, Bruce and Swarzak all head to Seattle in exchange for Cano and Diaz, tweets Martino. He cautions that the two sides have not yet reviewed medical information on the players involved, which always has the potential to throw a wrench into trade negotiations. Heyman tweets that a combination of those names is on the table.
7:11pm: A trade involving Diaz and Cano is close to being agreed upon, tweets Rosenthal.
6:33pm: Sherman tweets that the talks between the two sides are indeed intensifying, adding that the Mariners are now focused on the Mets rather than any other potential trade partners. Both Bruce and Swarzak could be included as a means of helping to offset Cano’s salary, and there are plenty of details to be sorted out, including medical reports and Cano’s no-trade clause.
5:40pm: Talks between the Mariners and Mets are reaching a “critical stage,” tweets Rosenthal. He notes that New York’s offer to Seattle includes some combination (but not all) of Kelenic, Dunn, McNeil, Bruce and Swarzak. That latter pair of names would seemingly be more about offsetting salary than anything else, while the first three are all well-regarded young players who’d provide the Mariners organization with a substantial amount of long-term value.
Meanwhile, MLB.com’s Greg Johns tweets that talks are indeed accelerating. A deal seems quite likely, per Johns, though the specific names involved are still being sorted out.
5:15pm: The Mariners are talking to multiple clubs about Cano, Diaz and shortstop Jean Segura, Rosenthal tweets. Those negotiations include myriad scenarios, including combinations of those three players as well as standalone deals for each. Similarly, Sherman adds that the Mets are operating with the belief that they’re one of many clubs in talks with the Mariners as they explore trades for combinations of those three as well as standalone swaps.
1:24pm: The teams have discussed scenarios involving both Cano and Diaz individually, as well as package arrangements, per Martino (via Twitter).
10:13am: “Significant momentum” has built toward a deal that would send high-dollar veteran second baseman Robinson Cano and top-shelf young closer Edwin Diaz from the Mariners to the Mets, according to Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports (Twitter links). Cano has reportedly not yet been asked to waive his no-trade rights, though Passan adds that is not expected to represent a significant hurdle.
Joel Sherman of the New York Post characterizes things somewhat differently in his own series of tweets. His sources indicate that the “Mets do not currently feel like they are close to a deal,” though he also makes clear that the interest is serious. Notably, Sherman suggests that the New York organization still doesn’t have a firm sense of whether the M’s are committed to packaging Cano and Diaz at all. Indeed, indications are that the Seattle org is still engaged with other clubs.
Obviously, the full parameters of this potential swap have yet to be revealed in full. And it’s hardly a done deal. But some chatter about other pieces has emerged as well. Recent first-round draft picks Jarred Kelenic and Justin Dunn are “under discussion” along with other pre-MLB assets, per Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic (Twitter link). Youngster David Peterson is also in the conversation, Jon Heyman of Fancred tweets. It’s important to emphasize that there is no specific indication that any or all of these young players is involved in a specific, fully built out scenario that the two organizations are deciding upon. Rather, per Heyman, the sides are tossing around different deal structures, with the Mariners demanding prospect value if they’re to part with Diaz.
Particulars aside, it’s rather stunning to see that the concept — a deal packaging Cano’s $120MM in remaining salary with Diaz — has advanced to this stage. There are certainly shades of the 2015 Melvin Upton/Craig Kimbrel swap here, so there is a clear model to follow, but this new proposal involves somewhat more extreme contract rights. (Upton was owed nearly $75MM less at the time of that swap than Cano is now, for instance.)
Cano is already 36 years of age, and sat out half the 2018 campaign due to a suspension for use of a masking agent, so the five years left on his deal are hardly an appealing proposition. But he’s also still a high-quality major-leaguer. Diaz, meanwhile, is unquestionably the top relief asset that could be had on this winter’s market. Though the aforementioned Kimbrel is an immensely accomplished closer who’s presently available in free agency, Diaz handily outperformed him last year. More importantly, he has the clear edge in youth and cost.
Unquestionably, quite a bit more will be involved in any actual trade than the two players rumored to this point. The Mariners will in all likelihood hold on to some of Cano’s contract and/or absorb a Mets contract in return. And the New York club will surely send back some talent. Those details will determine the ultimate merits of the swap for each club.
We’ll have to wait to learn the details, if anything is actually concluded. But it seems clear even from these reports of intense interest that the Mets are not only chasing the elite young closer, but see an opportunity to capture a some value from Cano, whose contract new GM Brodie Van Wagenen negotiated in his prior life as an agent. The long-time star is clearly not in his prime, but he still hit quite a bit when he wasn’t on the restricted list last year. Presumably, he’d step in at his accustomed second base, a position he can still handle (albeit not at his once-elite levels).
Adding Cano at second would dislodge Jeff McNeil, who emerged last year with an outstanding debut showing. The Mets would still have other options to shift around their infield pieces. It could also be that McNeil would move in the trade. He has appeared in the conversation between the organizations, MLB.com’s Jonathan Mayo tweets. McNeil already 26 years of age and only just debuted in the majors in 2018, but was one of the most pleasant surprises league-wide in the just-completed campaign. He not only showed off his typically excellent plate discipline, but turned in a notable power surge (as against his prior minor-league track record) and then slashed a hefty .329/.381/.471 in 248 big league plate appearances.
The full potential ramifications, clearly, would depend upon as-yet-unknown specifics. That’s due in no small part to the still-unknown slate of prospects that could be involved and, even more importantly from a MLB roster perspective, the contracts that could head the other way. We’ve heard Jay Bruce’s name thrown around quite a bit as a potential big contract to go to Seattle. Perhaps Juan Lagares would hold more appeal to the M’s, as a defensive stalwart who seems to fit the mold of player that Mariners GM Jerry Dipoto often targets, though he’s not owed as much. Todd Frazier, Jason Vargas, and Anthony Swarzak are among the other costly veteran pieces who could in theory be utilized to facilitate a swap.
For now, then, it doesn’t seem we know all that much more about the realistic possibilities than we have for the past week or so, as Cano/Diaz rumors have permeated the hot stove landscape. Even the level of seriousness of the Mets has been suggested, with SNY.tv’s Andy Martino calling the club an “aggressive” pursuer. Previously, though, it has hardly been evident that there was a realistic path to a trade that would lead to a match. The importance of these most recent developments is that, as Passan puts it, “there is an increasing expectation a trade will get finished.”
They will regret trading deal if they do.
Are you talking about New York or Seattle?
I meant “Diaz” I dead of “deal”
Dude, slow down. Check what you wrote and then hit “post”. I get errors, but it’s difficult to read what someone says when they are more quick to post than they are to proofread.
By adding the comma does that make you the Mom in this comment?
Says the man who said “more quick”
Nobody needs this
This is like the Mariners-Padres trade that Ken Rosenthal broke last week.
I really hope geez, and everyone who upvoted him, knows that the comma was entirely accurate.
It is debateable which is why I posed my comment as a question. Im sure if you google it you can find a wealth of stimulating conversation on the topic. Using a comma can also be used as a salutation… such as “Thank you for your consisderation, *your name here*”
That’s silly. I’m an old man and I’ve NEVER met anybody named “your name here.”
He wanted to be first, I’m surprised he didn’t follow it up with a “first comment!!” Post
In English please
LH – the trade or the grammar/spell check? “This” is an unclear pronoun reference and it hard for me to discern which “this” refers to.
They won’t regret it after he regresses.
I’ve seen a ton pictures of jerseys with a person called “your name”, but never “your name here”.
Finally, an intelligent baseball fan!
crazy thing is this might break the record for most comments in a story in history of mlbtr
738 is my unofficial record, this story has 6xx. With weekend coming, any updates to this if/when it’s official would mean a historic day for mlbtr in addition to Mets/Mariners 🙂
Whoops, was 732* posts. Keep track of it cuz believe more posts is better for mlbtr and love talking baseball with all you 🙂
Go for 1000. Comment sections’ going extinct
I love seeing this one thriving…
After scanning through most comment sections…yeah theres a reason it’s going extinct. Place used to have moderators. Now its inches and inches of trolling and trash talk
It’s a few annoying people that post on everything so their voice is simply heard.
Xabial is honestly the worst. He makes some great points, but he needs to cut back on the nonsense. His comments are batting below the Mendoza line, and terrible obp.
He is the Juan Pierre of comments. Dude gets tons of abs, lots of hits, no he’s.
It ruins the comments section for the hose who make a well thought out once in a blue moon post.
I mean, the guy keeps tabs on number of comments? Sad really…no one to talk to in real life I guess
So close bud
LoL. I won’t take the bait.
Cmon man. This thread is about to be most commented of all time, no need for that. If you’re new here, these are the type of posts that make the comments sections go poof and what we like to call a “troll”
On a scale of 0 to 1 on personal scale, that post was “below Mendoza line” and “low obp.” You the “Yuniesky Betancourt” of comments.
@Geez – thanks for the laugh.
Update: 808 posts. Wow! Shattered previous record. Congrats, Tim. love MLBTR, best MLB news source on the internet, you’ve an amazing staff…
What makes it more impressive: was accomplished without Disqus
Ok X….you know these writers. Talk them into some sort of award for being the 1000th post. Doesn’t have to be anything physical. Maybe just post their screen name somewhere on this site for a week.
I see some of my posts get deleted for content no doubt, so……seeing you monitor this stuff, how about it?
This is historic in ways.
Ohhh laawwwddd 1034 comments. And have you read them all? Somebody got get tell me what your job is so I can be paid to read MLBTR.
Mutts, for sure…
Ms should trade cano and Diaz to braves. Ms get Dansby Swanson, Darren o’day, Adam Duvall, and Julio Teheran for Cano and Diaz and Seattle pays 15% of cano’s contract over next 5 years. Braves move albies to ss and get a stud reliever to strengthen bullpen. Braves add another big bat to middle of lineup. Imagine
LF Riley or whoever they chose
That’s alot of homerun power there.
I’ll tell you what. You send me a $1,000 and in return, I’ll send you an envelope with all the lint, loose pennies, and dog hair I find under my couch cushions.
That seems fair, right?
Mrnatewalter, you my friend made me laugh so hard I spit my gum out. Thanks
Theres a way to disagree with someone without being condensending. So what if I made a bad trade proposal? Are you a vulture waiting to pick someone limb from limb? Just say, hey man, that’s a bad idea because x,y,z. No need to try to insult me or my intelligence but such a pompous remark. And no, I’m not offended, just disappointed for you.
By* not but. Autocorrect
Honestly, I think the Braves would be giving too much.. Braves would owe an aging Cano $102 million. I wouldnt take Cano and Diaz for a low level prospect.
Diaz’s incredible value is offset by Cano’s albatross of a contract.
It would be more like $80 million since Seattle would be eating O’Day and Teheran’s contracts.
Cano is projected for about 3 WAR next season, which is worth about $30 million at current FA prices.
A reasonable expectation from Cano might be 3 WAR next season, then 2 WAR, then 1 WAR, and maybe 0 WAR for the final two years. So the Braves would end up getting roughly $60 million in performance, while paying $80 million. But they also get Edwin Diaz for cheap. As things stand, Diaz is a substantial upgrade from Swanson.
Cespedes is the only real big contract they have right now so
why not take on some payroll to make the roster better
Think they still need a lot to catch the Nationals / Braves / Phillies
Considering the other teams in the division are buyers as well
There is no such way
You sound offended.
Cano’s contract is not an albatross. It’s not good by any means, but it’s certainly not as bad as some people are trying to make it seem. He’s still a solid player at the very least.
It’s a terrible contract.
Fewer words my friend..and less coffee
Don’t forget that he played in a pitchers park. His numbers will go up in the NL East.
It’s only a bad contract if he doesn’t perform, and over the last five years, including hitting over .300 last year, he has performed well.
The Mets could potentially have talked down the “Diaz” asking price by potentially assuming Cano’s contract.
Which would only make sense if you try and flip Diaz at the TradecDeadline for a better haul. Smart move if it actually happens.
Not when he’s still out performing it.
lmfao but yeah *thanks for the offer but i will have to pass* i’ll keep my 1000m and you keep your lint
I can’t see why Seattle would take Bruce for any reason.
What are you new? You got a funny response….mlbtr comment section is a sewer with keyboard warrior rats typically. If you want decent conversation…find a good FB group that actually moderated.
Perhaps, but it is much easier to get people to side with you when you are hilarious.
That was good
But his way is much funnier
No team wants another team’s scraps.
Swanson, Duvall and teheran are not scraps. O’day is more of an unknown at this point but by no means are these guys scraps.
Duvall won’t even be tendered a contract by the Braves tomorrow. That’s the definition of “scraps”
Swanson, Duvall and Teheran are pretty much scraps. Your allegiance may skew your vision a little bit.
Duvall is a non-tender candidate and Teheran is hot garbage. I wouldn’t take Teheran for free at his salary. Even half of his salary.
Duvall is scraps. He would be a throw in piece in any trade.
You wouldn’t take him for free at his salary? Just the salary would make him not free. You wouldn’t give up assets for him at his salary.
No I wouldn’t let him on my roster at his salary. Teheran is not very good.
Lol Another ridiculous trade proposal from a brave homer
I’m not a braves homer. Just a fan.
Feels like a trade that a Yankees fan would propose. Minus Ellsbury, of course.
Why would the mariners accept the braves replacements for the top closer in all of baseball and Cano? Despite canos contract that package would the the worst return I’ve ever seen in my life.
Treinen says hi but agreed with the rest.
The ms would get a great defensive short stop in dansby. Also Duvall is not some throw in. He plays excellent defense and could replace alot of the power lost from trading cano. Teheran is a proven #3/4 starter and o’day isnt exactly a toss in either. It’s not as bad a trade proposal as yall are making it out to be. The whole point in adding in Diaz is for salary relief on cano’s contract.
The Treinen trade was not terrible for the Nats. They received a bullpen ace in Sean Doolittle.
The reason the M’s have Diaz in the deal is because they want to get something back for him and having Cano in the deal is to get rid of his contract. Diaz is the only value that would allow Cano to be traded in the process because Cano has so much money. It’s not a deal for Cano, the Mets are getting Diaz mainly which is why they have so many more prospects in the deal than vets. Cano wasn’t going to get top prospects in return because he doesn’t play as well as he used to. If the Brave wanted Diaz and Cano it would be. Swanson, Inciarte, Probably either Soroka or Wright and another top prospect like Austin Riley. They might even need to throw in another vet to counter act the contract that comes with Robby. But yes Swanson, Duvall, Teheran, and O’Day would be a bad deal and there really isn’t an argument that the Mariners would do that. The mariners would do that if it included 3 top prospects
Cano just put up 3 WAR in 1/2 a season. That means he was just a 6 WAR player. I would tell them I won’t do the deal unless its McNeil, Kelenic, Dunn, Bautista, and Bruce. Even then I think its a crappy trade. WAR is valued at $9M per win. That means Cano was producing at a level that without his injury or suspension would’ve generated $54M in value and if you minus the $24M he makes, that’s a $30M excess of value. That’s how his value should be determined. Then you subtract 1/2 a win for each year.
So let’s say Cano is a 5 WAR player next year, that makes him 5, 4.5, 4. 3.5, 3 for the remaining 5 years. Added together he projects to be worth 20 WAR over 5 years which currently values at $180M minus his $120M owed to him and you have $60M in excess value. If you are boarish on Cano, you might say $40M in excess value, that should still get Kelenic straight up, with no salary dump.
The fact that Seattle is only getting a busted relief prospect and a late top 100 prospect, while also taking on $35M in salary and giving away Diaz makes this a horrible deal. If they don’t get McNeil back Dipoto just got Jedi mindtricked into giving away 8 WAR of talent for lottery tickets and scraps that will not lower payroll this year.
You sir, make the most sense out of anyone here. And if there’s no McNeil in this deal then the m’s shouldn’t do it.
I was thinking the Mets got the better of this deal, you have literally convinced me with facts.
I could go along with that. Add Vizciano and M’s pay 20%. I think we need a closer more than a Starter and Cano’s LH bat would be nice behind Donaldson.
In this hypothetical proposal, the Mariners get:
Dansby Swanson (4 years)
Julio Teheran ($12M for 1 year or $23M for 2 years)
Darren O’Day (1 year for $9M)
Adam Duvall (3 years)
Robinson Cano (5 years for $120M)
Edwin Diaz (4 years)
$18M from the Mariners
So the Mariners get to offload Cano’s contract for about $40M, and they get Swanson for the same amount of time they could keep Diaz.
No thanx want no part of that
Why not just sign David Robertson or Zach Britton
When are my fellow Brave fans going to realize Dansby is going nowhere. Local kid will be the face of the franchise soon enough. He has improved every season in one way or another we gotta be a little more patient. He will have a breakout year this year watch.
Cano won’t go if Diaz goes to the Braves. Diaz would get us a couple of the top 10 Braves prospects on his own and if the Mariners were really interested in dumping some of Cano’s salary, they could still do a deal with the Mets for Bruce, Vargas, and Swarzak (while paying like $10-14m of Cano’s contract in 2021-2023).
I posted this on another comment but here’s a good Braves proposal.
Braves and Yankees make the most sense. Braves trade for Cano, Diaz, and Segura. All 120M of Canos contract goes away to Yankees. This is how.
ATL keeps Diaz gets 2. top 20 prospects from Yanks for their facilitation
Seattle gets Julio (stop-gap starter) and 3. 20-50 prospects from ATL
Yankees get Cano and Segura plus 12M/Year over 4 years from ATL
Why would the Yankees take on all of Cano’s salary half way thru, and when he’s several years older, than the same scenario they refused when he became a free agent and they let him walk? No….just…..no.
Hence the Braves paying half
LOL why would the Yankees send Atlanta TWO TOP 20 prospects for “facilitating” them taking on all of a well-past-his-prime and coming off a steroid suspension Robinson Cano?
The Yankees would GET prospects from Atlanta for taking Cano off Seattle’s hands to avoid forcing the Braves to eat that contract as a condition of getting Diaz, and Atlanta would also help pay down Cano’s contract. Your proposal is laughable, teams don’t give up good prospects for taking a salary dump.
BamaBraves, that seems like a balanced trade, but the Yanks have ONE hole in the middle infield, not two. And even that one hole is only there for half a year, Didi’s coming back in the summer.
Also, I doubt Seattle want Teheran. They want prospects.
So let’s drop Segura and Teheran: Atlanta trade for Diaz and Cano, Cano comes to the Yankees. The three teams split the bill on Cano evenly (everyone eats $40M). Seattle get a pitching prospect from each of the two teams: Loaisiga from the Yanks and Gohara from the Braves.
Brandon, you would need to add Soroka to that deal and if you want the Ms to pick up 15%, another prospect would be needed.
Thank you. And yes I’ll agree my proposed return package to Ms was a bit light. I would absolutely include soroka or even touki. However, I feel that most on here are overreacting to my initial post and are undervaluing Swanson, Teheran and Duvall. It’s not like I suggested we gave them our 4 worst players. Anyway. Thanks for your kind and insightful comment. I was only trying to open a discussion. Way to many narrow minded people on here
Duvall literally will get non-tendered tomorrow. He adds literally zero value to the trade. And Teheran isn’t good. Dansby is good on D and a decent player who’s unlikely to be a star at this point. I just think the reason you’ll get rid of these guys is because outside of Dansby they are spare parts.
Soroka is a 60/80 pitching prospect. According to fangraphs, that’s worth $60M.
So no, he has no business being in a package for Cano+ Diaz.
If Soroka was in play, then the Braves could realistically just flip him for Diaz, straight up, without taking on a single cent. But, of course, they have no reason to trade their best pitching prospect….they have plenty of other valuable pieces, deeper down the depth chart.
Well Duvall literally did NOT get non tendered… so theres that.
I’m curious … are Mets fans more excited about getting Diaz, or the PED using cheater Cano?
F___K Yeah, the Mets will regret this deal. Kelenic is one of their top prospects, and McNeil has been a consistenly good hitter just like he was all throughout his minor league career. He always was an on base machine when he was healthy, and always had a a good batting average, and a really good OBP too. . Dunn found himself in 2018, and was a really good Double AA starting pitcher. If I’m Fred Wilpon I would immediately fire Brodie I’m a Stupid Ass Van Numbnutz immediately if not sooner.
Closer’s the most volatile position in sports. However…
Diaz might be a keeper:
“Pretty incredible stat: the Mariners went 66-0 this year when Edwin Diaz entered with a lead, including 61-0 in his save chances. Diaz blew four saves, but the Mariners came back to win each one.” https://mobile.twitter.com/AnthonyDiComo/status/1068567391897088000?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1068567391897088000&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.12up.com%2Fposts%2F6235875-mariners-literally-didn-t-lose-a-game-when-edwin-diaz-entered-with-a-lead-in-2018
Am I the only one that thinks Cano is still a really good player?
dimitrios in la
No but his contract with age and his baggage is IMO undesirable.
theres not really that much baggage. Dude got suspended once. Oh well, who cares. No one is complaining about Nelson Cruz’s baggage.
Hes being treated like a liability due to his contract, so a season of suspension that you don’t have to pay him would be a good thing anyways so.
If he was using PEDs at age 35 with hundreds of millions secured, and on track for the Hall Of Fame, what does that say for the likelihood he was using prior to establishing himself and joining the Mariners? He comes with a huge amount of baggage.
How did cano look at 3B?
tell that to bonds who was never suspended for ped’s and didn’t even test positive while steroids were against mlb rules.
Point of clarification – he did not test positive for PEDs. He was flagged for having a diarrhetic in his system. It’s not quite the same thing, even though it comes with the same suspension. For all we know, Cano could have a heroin addiction he was trying to mask.
I think it was a diuretic, though it would be funny if he was purposely trying to give himself diarrhea.
JimCarlo- Complete speculation, dismissed!!
I agree. I find it fishy that even tho around 75% of pro athletes make the pros because of juicing in highschool/college.. very few get caught in the pros.
I think he was rated at average or just below average in his short time at third. Small sample size though obviously.
No, a season of suspension that you don’t have to pay him wouldn’t be a good thing – unless it’s in the last year or two.
See the thing that most people don’t understand is Cano was caught using a banned substance, but not a PED. It is a drug that is often used as a masking agent but it is also used to treat a variety of illnesses. Cano, yes, should have known better. But grouping in all guys who used banned substances with PED users is a dangerous game. Chris Davis had his monster year using ADHD medications banned by MLB without proper consent. He did have a prescription, but never got it cleared that particular season with MLB.
There’s a lot of nuances in these things. Be careful and do your research before making accusations. I’m no Cano fan, but I do believe that everyone deserves due diligence before random accusations are made. I don’t think I’d really count this particular suspension as baggage, or suspect a decline in performance because he’s “not using PEDs anymore”.
Just my 2 cents from reading up on his suspension more when these trade talks started!
Dumbo, he started using because he was adding weight as he aged. That’s what diuretics are used for, they aren’t classified as a performance enhancing drug. They are used sometimes as a masking agent but in cano’s case you can see he’s added weight. it happens to most people as they get older.
In all fairness Bill, I don’t blame their ignorance on the individuals. MLB does an absolutely wonderful job with catching these guys and suspending them. But they do an absolutely awful job of discussing the conditions in which the substance was used. Cano actually had to do this himself.
I think MLB should make a more concerned effort to educate the fan base on what these guys are using, when and why so that people aren’t left in the dark without doing extensive research. To be honest, I had to research the situation, the allegations, the conclusion and the drug itself before recognizing why Cano was clearly using this substance. But my assumption up until that point was the same as some of these others, he was masking PED usage. That assumption was completely wrong.
No. Just no.
Speculation or not, as an older player coming off a drug suspension, he still comes with a lot of uncertainty. Not questioning the legitimacy of his career prior to 2018 in light of the suspension is foolish.
Big, big risk when you factor age and the suspension.
BS, there’s no evidence he was using to lose weight. There are healthier, legal alternatives…What nonsense.
Its still the right move to have suspended Cano. Cano accepted it because he knows that he should have checked. He could have appealed, but as he wasn’t denying anything, there was no sense in it.
Unfortunately, this will taint his career because everyone will have their opinion on it, but he definitely gained a lot of weight and could have other underlying medical conditions as well.
Listen, I’m a Sox fan and I’d love to be the one to go, “Haha Cano was dirty. Another Yankee that just couldn’t do it the right way.” I live for the valid moments to mock the Yankees. But I think most of MLB is quite confident Cano is clean as a whistle from the PED side of things and always has been. He’s been tested by the league in the past and has never come up for any drug or masking agent. This looks like a mistake.
The age for sure is a huge factor though. He’s 36 already. In this world, he’s oldddd….
Cano was using a masking agent because he was taking PED’s. That’s literally the Only reason to take what he was taking. So yes it makes sense to group him in with PED guys because clearly he is one.
You don’t use things that make you pee to lose weight. You use things that increase your metabolism. Cano was cheating and using a diuretic to mask his use of PED. That is why he so readily accepted his 80 game ban.
But if you really believe he was using pee inducing drugs to lose weight, I have oceanfront land to sell you in Colorado.
I would assume the Mets would get the Mariners to pay down the salary a lot. As for the Baggage, if he gets hurt, insurance may kick in and if he gets popped for more roids then I believe he forfeits the money for time missed
I doubt it. I think the mariners are looking to dump the salary. I would guess the Mets are going to pick up all of that contract or very close to all of it.
if they are looking to just dumb salary, including Diaz in the deal isn’t too bright
Who’s taking that salary without Diaz??? No one!
The whole idea of including Diaz in the deal means the acquiring team pays most of Cano’s contract.
The Mets are way too cheap to take on all of it. Even with Diaz.
No one is taking that salary even with Diaz. Cano would be worth about $8 – $10 mil on the open market. If the Mets took this entire contract just to get Diaz that would be the equivalent of paying Diaz $14 mil per year. They might as well just sign Britton and skip this deal entirely if they want to spend that much on a closer.
Woah.. 8 to 10 mil on the open market? That is pretty low for a guy that hits for high average, hits 20 hr/yr and is more than an adequate defender. Come on.
Not when you factor in 36 years old with a recent steroid suspension. If he was a FA this year, he’d be lucky to get 3/30m.
You’re a moron
Who’s a moron?
8-10 mil? That’s what Dozier is going to get if not more. Cano is a $15-20 mil AAV player. His contract isn’t that bad if he’s healthy. He’s just not a useful piece for Dipoto right now and hamstrings their budget. That doesn’t mean taking on that salary will hamstring another team if they have a need at 2B.
The M’s are looking for the right fit here. Giving away Diaz AND absorbing salary would go completely against what they are trying to do. They may eat 10% of the deal. I doubt they go beyond that.
Well time will tell, but the rumor is they already have it paid down to almost 15 mil with the contract swap alone let alone the dollars coming back. If you’d ever give a 36 year old a 5 year 75 to 100 mil contract then you are insane. By the way that is exactly what you just said he’s worth.
Looks like the ended up eating almost 50% with the $20 mil cash + 2 bad contracts. Still a great win for the Mariners.
If you work the numbers with Bruce and swarzak salaries gone and 20 mill from Mariners Mets get Cano and Diaz for 65million. Those are pre arb for Diaz. A good deal for both teams.
Whether right or wrong, people care about PEDs for all of about 10 seconds after the suspension is up and welcome the player back with open arms. Just ask Bartolo Colon.
Its about what you did, how you did it, why you did it and what you did when you were accused. There’s a reason some guys get attention and others don’t. Those who own up to PED usage or explain and apologize are in one category. Those who don’t own up and say they don’t owe any explanation are in another.
And then there are guys like Cano and Davis and others who have gotten in trouble with the league for using a banned substance for medicinal reasons. The substance Cano used is called furosemide or better known as Lasix which is a diuretic. Yes it can be used to block PED usage, but in Cano’s case, he was prescribed it by a doctor in the D.R. for legitimate health reasons.
Cano should have had his personal manager or agent check the banned substance list for anything he’s taking and I’m sure he will do that moving forward. He owned up, took responsibility, explained what and why and the Mariners and players forgave him. Most of us fans never got the whole scoop. I’m pretty confident Cano is not a PED user and I think in fact its unfair that people are categorizing him that way.
Nope. This may cause me to question my Mariners fanhood depending on the final shape of the deal.
Julio Franco's Birth Certificate
Why? The M’s get back Jay Bruce and the remaining contract and past glory of David Wright. What’s not to like?
Sarcasm, ah! You mean 0.6 WAR’s Jay Bruce? No thanks
Khopper10- I’m feeling the exact same way, in fact if they do this I can’t help but think it’s another bad decision in a fantastically long list of them! Our organization is successful at one thing- knowing how to screw sh*t up and ultimately lose baseball games.
Go look at recent returns for elite relievers: Torres for Chapman, Sheffield and Frazier for Miller, Mejia for Hand… then increase that return given Diaz’s dominance and years of control. If they just trade Diaz for Cano salary relief I don’t even know what to think.
I’m 100% on board with you Khopper… I’m not an M’s fan, but this is a dumb deal. They are treating the Cano contract the way teams treat bad contracts and I really stand by I don’t think Cano will be that much worse then 5/$120 if he’s healthy. So unless Dipoto knows something we don’t, I’m not quite sure why the heck they would just give away Diaz for salary relief. That being said, I don’t think there will be any takers for Cano’s contract without packaging some talent along with him. Diaz though? I was thinking more like a 2nd tier prospect or 2 and Cano for pretzels if you’re determined to salary dump him, and then flip Diaz on his own for a top prospect & some second tier prospects to take their place. The returns for relievers has been way too high to just give Diaz away considering his results and years of control.
I expect Dipoto to get creative though as he always does. I see this turning into a 3-team deal if it happens. There’s pieces missing.
Kelenic looks pretty good, so there’s that.
Sounds like a done deal, but wow… I love this deal for the Mets. I think this also effectively takes Syndergaard off the market, because this shows a clear intention to compete for the Mets. It’s hard to do that if you trade away your second best starter.
I just hope that Wilpon (in his traditional fashion) doesn’t metaphorically wash his hands and call it an off-season. They should really go for it at this point.
I can’t believe the M’s aren’t getting more for Diaz. A Miller rental and a Chapman rental essentially restocked a good chunk of the Yankees farm system. Diaz has higher potential then either and team control to boast as well. Huge mistake in my eyes by Dipoto. This will be the deal that seals his fate in Seattle.
I agree!!! I like Cano and Diaz in Seattle, and if they go, I’m not going to be overly excited about the 2019 season in Seattle. I’m a Mariners’ fan who’s not excited about Cano and Diaz leaving. Sigh…
Shaner- Ms fan here also. It’s not just 2019 and this trade signals a full tear down, not a slight adjustment or retool so there’s likely to be losing seasons in Seattle w Jerry’s kids for at least 2-3 seasons. Their #3 prospect Kelenic and 4 Dunn would be the big pieces in the deal but Kelenic is one yr removed from High School and Dunn is in AA. Don’t know much about Gertson Bautista but with nearly every single young player it takes a couple seasons to find success in MLB. I won’t be driving up to watch the Ms lose anytime soon.
Not necessarily. But he’s 36 with 5 years left on a deal at $24mm per.
No, he’s good. If the Mets pull this off though, they better still play McNeil every day.
move McNeil to 3rd I’d hope for that down vote I got. McNeil is a very underrated player and proved he can play last year. The Mets would be stupid to ship him off or bench him.
I agree they should move McNeill to the hot corner.
plus Cano isn’t playing 150+ games, McNeil can move around. Frazier needs to pick it up if he wants to play yet. maybe NY should look to move him as well.
Cano played 150 games or more for 11 straight seasons before being hit with an 80 game suspension, and still played 80 games. I dont see how he isnt playing 150 games is a given
The Mets eat half of Frazier’s contract and there should be multiple takers.
other than he’s 36 and there isn’t a DH in the NL and likely won’t be taking the drugs that got him banned for 80 games. wonder if that had anything to do with him staying on the field…..
dimitrios in la
Brixton, his history of 150+ games a season has no bearing—at all—on what he’ll do this season. Ask Albert Belle. Ask all the pitchers with multiple 200+ inning seasons who then spent a ton of time on the DL after that.
not saying it does. Im saying to assume a guy who has barely missed a game he was allowed to play in in over a decade wont play a full season is wrong.
To ignore the aging curve and reject the assumption that Cano will not be an iron man moving forward is wrong.
Small sample size with a high BABIP and surprising power doesn’t make him underrated, overrated though yes. He’s also rumored to be in the dealZ
McNeil looks like is heading to Seattle.
He still is. It’s just the deal that’s scary.
He’s still good, but he’s pretty much a 1st baseman at this point. Plus the fact that he has 5 years left on his contract and he’s 36.
SSS but Cano at 1B after his return from suspension was a complete disaster- he was directly responsible for game changing errors in at least 3 games I watched. He looked so uncomfortable and ill-fitting in every single game
He was an above-average defensive 2B in 2018. He is not pretty much a 1B in 2019.
Cano, even with the PED suspension, was a 3-win player last year. He’s a Daniel Murphy type – the bat plays, even if the defense isn’t wuite uop to snuff anymore. And Diaz is just a beast.
Daniel Murphy comparison is an insult to Cano. Even at 36, Cano is more fluid than Murph and has a superior arm. Cano should be fine going forward for the Mets at second base for at least 3 years. Then he can shift to first or get traded back to an AL team that may be willing to take on the remaining portion of the contract for a quality DH bat.
The waiving of the no trade now does not invalidate with respect to shipping him back to the AL later.
If he can be traded to a contending AL team for a shot to play in the post season, he will waive it.
Cano has a world series ring already. I think he’ll waive his rights as long as it’s not to a losing team but realistically what non-conder, besides the Mets, would even consider trading for him if they’re rebuilding?
Cano was a 3 win player last year, and a 3 win player again in 2018…this time, in half a year. So he’s at least a 4 win player.
Cano was a Gold Glover not too long ago. Murphy has been a well below-average fielder his entire career.
Cano, based on all defensive metrics, is still an above-average defender (at least for now). Murphy is, as he’s always been, a major defensive liability.
Nope. Deals gonna depend on how much the M’s eat in salary. Beltre played okay at an advanced age. Everybody’s different.
He wont be soon. Hes already 36 and will start declining soon. Hopefully though he puts up good number for the Mets if the trade happens
He’s still good today. This contract ends when he’s 40
He’ll probably continue to be a really good player for a year or two. But late 30’s 2Bs tend to fall off of a cliff rather abruptly. Maybe the Mets can flip him (once the M’s pay down his salary) to an AL club by further paying down his salary, and chalk it all up to the cost of acquiring Diaz. Even if they pay pay half of Cano’s salary, it’s likely preferable to paying an older pitcher like Kimbrell the same money in free agency.
Cano put up 7.3 WAR in 2016, good for #6 in the entire league.
Cano is still very good. He still makes tough plays at 2nd base look easy. He’s a smart hitter with a quick bat. I’ve watched him closely (Mariner fan here!) and I’ve always been impressed with his defense and offense. I’m super annoyed with him taking PEDs or being in the gray area there…and he’s not my favorite player, and he’s lost some of my respect, but he’s good.
He’s still solid, but that contract! If he were to hit the open market this Winter, he’d probably get about 3yr/$45m? Something like that? The Mets has better hope he ages well of they make this swap.
He’s still great. Probably has three more All-Star worthy years. It’s his final 1-2 years I’m worried about when Cano is hitting 40.
Most think he might be productive for the next 2 maybe 3 years; BUT its the 4&5 years that scary.
You’re not the only one. I’m a pretty big fan of his and the Mariners in general (less so lately), but he has continuing value. I could see him not wanting to stick around while a soft rebuild occurs and his best teammates are sent elsewhere, but his only real negative value is his contract, not his production. Over a whole season of 150+ games, I’d expect 3-4 fWAR if he wasn’t slowed by injuries. His bat is potent and he should continue to age semi-gracefully, even if he has to move to 1B/DH eventually. I’d sure as heck take him over Dee Gordon. If he’s traded I’ll be more than a little bummed.
It’s not about who he is now. You’re taking on a 35 year old who has 120mm left on his salary.
You’re getting nothing but regression.
Is he a good player without being juiced? Sorry, but in my world ethics and integrity mean something.
Dipoto should be fired after this. I don’t think he quite gets the point. Trading away your best asset just to dump a contract. Stupid.
dimitrios in la
Not stupid at all. Money gets you things. And “best” is relative.
Ask Braves Fans how they felt about the return for Craig Kimbrel after attaching BJ Upton to him. 2 players who had no real value, 2 prospects that became nothing, and a draft pick. The draft pick is all that is left from that trade 3 years later. Tough to sell that to a rebuilding fan base.
Slim chance a pkg of prospects produce a major front line player; pitcher or position player.
So why trade Diaz? Makes no sense
First, I don’t think the Upton/Kimbrel trade is a good analogy, since Upton was TERRIBLE and signed long term. Cano is actually a good player.
Second, while that specific trade didn’t work out well, aren’t the Braves a good model for a successful rebuild? I would argue that the Braves overall process worked very well.
That 41st draft pick they got landed Austin Riley.
Not to mention the $ that was freed up from unloading Upton allowed the Braves to do things like the Arroyo/Touki trade. Fans fail to realize the compounding effect trades have on one another.
I’m with Walls17- Diaz is a known commodity, he could be deployed in the Hader role, or continue to be a top closer for years. He has a unique build that’s hard to find- super long (Michael Phelps style) arms that cracks that ball in w effortless velocity. Nah, you don’t trade Diaz or Haniger. Stupid bloody organization
What Seattle need is the one thing money doesn’t get you: high ceiling prospects.
Maybe wait to hear the details of the deal before calling for the GM to be terminated.
Closers are the most replaceable position in sports behind kickers. Sure, Diaz is elite and controllable and he won’t be utilized on a non-contending team. It really depends on how much NYM is taking on because Diaz could get 70M-80M in the open market right now (if he were a FA).
What’s stupid is ownership using Diaz to pay down Cano’s contract instead of just using money. I get trying to become financially flexible but giving up Diaz at his highest value just to dump Cano is silly.
What’s ironic especially if Vargas is involved is that these two teams did this once before when the Mets traded for Seattle’s JJ Putz (then a great reliever with Seattle) he didn’t work too well with the Mets.
It’s a bullpen arm. When knows when Diaz comes down to earth or tears his ACL or what not. Trade Diaz with Camp and then sign Andrew Miller. Boom. All is well.
Agreed. I’d much rather have Haniger and sign a FA arm like Robertson. Miller is going to be overpaid for his prior success.
This is like the one time in Dipitos GM career that he hasn’t spent big in the offseason and now everyone wants him to be fired. “Boooo we haven’t inked Harper or Machado yet, boooo Fire him!!!”
NL East is gonna be really interesting
Mets still gonna finish in 4th place.
dimitrios in la
At least for now.
If this is the only significant move the Mets make them not really
You gotta be winning games in order to close them.
Haha, never said they’d be good, just interesting
That’s a cheap shot, at best. Every team wins enough games to keep their closer busy.
When you’re going into a season without a closer, what you’re telling your fans is “don’t bother showing up, because we don’t care about the quality of the team we’re fielding”.
Getting Diaz would be huge for the Mets bullpen, If Cano can stay on the field and give the Mets anything its a good deal.
Depending on what the Mets would give up in this, might be a good 1st trade by Van Wagenen. Diaz is a steal in this.
Can Dipoto trade himself in this deal??
Mets gon’ Met.
Could this involve one of the Mets’ first line starting pitchers or are we talking role player and prospects in return?
role players and/or prospects I’d think.
You’re drastically overvaluing cano if you think any deal involving him brings back a frontline starter. Regardless of how Cano plays teams look at his contract as a negative. Adding Diaz just means the mariners won’t have to eat as much salary.
Really hope Alonso or Gimenez aren’t in the deal those kids are gonna be special
The mets had some of the worst production int he majors from 1B last year. They need Alonso to step in and be productive. I wouldn’t move Gimenez, Alonso, or Dunn in this deal because SEA is caught over a barrel. Cano has a full NTC and the rumor is he will only waive his NTC for NYC. If we go back to Stanton only being open to the Yankees….it took away all leverage for the Marlins and they got scraps back for supreme talent AND a discount on his contract.
I would love to see Cano’s salary get dumped somewhere but giving up Diaz to do it is too high a cost, in my opinion. He’s the best closer in baseball. He had a monster year last year.
That said, the life of a closer is pretty precarious….relievers are a mercurial lot. They can great one year, and stink the next, and dominate the next!
This is probably the dumbest trade I have seen even cano and his huge Salary is better with the M’s then just trading him with Diaz you should be trading Kyle Seager and dealing diaz alone to get more value out of the beat closer in baseball smh I’m extremely booty hurt
Diaz is good but let’s not go as far as the best closer in baseball Chapman and Kimbrel are still in baseball and they had a bad year for their standards and they still had a sub 2 era
Kimbrel 2.74 and Chapman 2.45. I knew this was wrong but wanted to get the actual numbers, and it only took 15 seconds, which is also how long it would’ve taken you.
Looks like a win…win…win..the Mariners dump Canos contract….Cano goes where he wants and the Mets get some much needed thump. Diaz is a high price to pay so I’m wondering what the return will be.
As long as no haniger I’m ok with it.
Haniger is the far safer ask for the Mets, but if I were SEA I’d be very wary of moving him. If SEA thinks that Diaz will continue to be elite (all stats point to yes), then they could consider holding onto him and hope the price gets driven up heading into the 2019 deadline. I’d actually prefer that, as Haniger would be the next most likely piece that moves the needle to move Cano.
Really hope that Bruce’s contract can get dumped if this deal occurs.
The Mets ownership won’t trade away DeGrom or Syndergaard to rebuild but they’ll trade for Cano
probably because they don’t want to rebuild……
no one wants to rebuild. doesnt mean that they shouldnt rebuild
It looks like Dan O’Dowd, ex GM of Rockies and current mlbtv guy, had this pegged two days ago…….and they laughed at him (Jon Heyman especially)…….
I always get the sense that Heyman and O’Dowd don’t like each other.
Heyman is a pompous jerk, listening to him is like nails on a chalkboard.
douches go for blood
O’Dowd and his buddies were saying Cano and Diaz/Haniger for Bruce, which would be a terrible, unjustifiable trade for the M’s.
Thus, they are still idiots.
Depends on what the Mariners get back. If they get prospects, then yes. If this is just a salary dump, no way.
Get it done, Cash!
The PED situation tops the scales for me. If I’m DiPoto, I’d want him out. I have very little tolerance for that behavior.
Another ignorant post about PEDs.
Probably why you don’t own a sports team. If you wanna be a good businessman, you can’t go around moralizing. You have to be willing to deal with people with different moral values than yours.
From a morality standpoint I don’t really care about the PED bust, but from a business and financial standpoint it is worrisome because stirke 2 will lose him for a year. He will be tested more frequently and it would bring unneeded bad press, which the Wilpons hate.
Mariners would have to take Bruce back to level off the money, per O’Dowd….at least lessen it some…..
I think dipoto would rather pay it down in cash than take Bruce. Hopefully.
Negative 0.6 WAR- god I hope not
Bruce is replacement level. He can hold his own in RF and he is a 30HR and 90-100RBI guy. Last year was rough for him, no doubt…but he was nicked up. He’s not a complete lost cause like Chris Davis, but he is probably worth $10m less than his current contract. My biggest issue with Bruce is that he is blocking Alonso, who could actually be an impact bat if he can produce around his AAA numbers.
If Alonso, Giminez, or Kelenic are in this deal I’m going to be sick to my stomach. Diaz is a stud but this is where the Wilpigs won’t spend money. I’d rather Keep anyone of those prospects and then go out and sign Miller Or Kimbrel instead of taking on Canos contract even if it’s like 50/60 million for five years and you get Diaz. I would not do that deal if it means getting rid of any of the young stud prospects.
Gimenez is more trade able then the other two due to Rosario already being at short but as long as they don’t trade Alonso or kelenic it’s a win
Agreed but being a Mets fan and watching Rosario guy has not been as advertised since being the best SS prospect in the game before getting called up. Granted he finished the second half of the season on a somewhat strong note. The potential is still there with him being so young but I’m just not sold yet that he’s going to be that “perennial all star player” Even if he does blossom Giminez is more then capable of Playing Second Base.
My issue with moving Gimenez is that he is already a toosly slick fielding SS, but in the past year he has shown a better bat, which really could bump up his value if he can develop into an effective hitter at a premium position. Rosario is blocking him, but talent is talent.
Unfortunately, I see Carlos Baerga, part deux from the Mets’ side.
The only saving grace is that Cano is not a Cleveland 2B – like Baerga and Alomar were.
Edwin Diaz would be a great get for the Cubs but not add the added cost of Robinson Cano. Similar to the Cubs, the Mets need a closer and more offense but they don’t have as many financial barriers in taking on Cano’s remaining contract. I’m guessing that if this deal gets done then trading Jacob deGrom and/or Noah Syndergaard becomes less likely.
There are no current talks about extending Wheeler, which is worrisome and may make the Mets gun shy to move Syn because that would go against their claim that they want to be competitive now and not go into a rebuild.
Makes sense for the Mariners. They aren’t going to compete for 2 or 3 years. By then Cano will be an expensive albatross. Diaz is at the absolute height of his potential trade value right now. Every year he sits on a losing Mariners team his excess value dwindles down. In 3 years, when they plan to compete, they will have plenty of payroll flexibility to sign an elite closer and then some.
So if hes at his absolutely max value, why would they package him with a bad contract and dilute his trade return?
Cano is still a great player who is just expensive. No need to ‘dump him.’ Unless they are completely cutting payroll, which in that case, they could probably package non-elite assets with him to do so.
Because they are underwater on the bad contract roughly the same amount as they have excess value in Diaz. If the next 6 years of Cano are worth $50 million, then they have $70 million in negative equity. The next 4 years of Diaz on the open market are worth roughly the same or maybe a little less in fact. So it roughly balances out the burden they are taking with Cano.
or you can maximize your prospect return by putting them in separate deals, since prospects are far more valuable than money in baseball.
“prospects are far more valuable than money”. Pretty much the most meaningless statement I’ve seen here. So are you saying the blue jays wouldn’t hand over Vlad Jr. for a billion dollars? They would put a pretty bow on him and wouldn’t think twice about it.
In other words, of course prospects are worth money.
Cano has given us 20.7 fWAR over the first 5 years of his contract valued at $163.7 million. That’s $43.7m over his 120 paid. He’s not as bad as a lot of ppl make him out to be. I understand getting rid of Cano’s contract but with Diaz? That hurts haha!
well a billion dollars vs 120M is very different.
I dont really think the Jays would give up Vlad JR for 120M lol…
ayrbhoy you being dishonest. What Cano did in the first five years has absolutely nothing to do with what he’ll do in the next five. So why even bring it up? If the Mariners thought that they wouldnt be trading him. And you know it.
The balance is more like $60M for Cano’s value, and $60M for Diaz’.
So the Mariners have three options:
1. they spend that $60M value Diaz is worth on prospects
2. they cash in on it, and spend the money on something else
3. don’t spend it, they take the money out of the business completely
I think taking money out of a rapidly growing business (which baseball is) is stupid. And the best thing they could spend it on is prospects. If anything, they should spend some of Cano’s $60M value on a prospect too…in other words, eat $90M of his salary, and ask for a prospect valued at $30M in return.
Mariners are trying to shed his salary due to the abundance of talented teams in the AL. Nevermind our AL W. We desperately need SP and prospect depth- we can’t get those w/o chipping away at our payroll. What we’re debating here is completely subjective- you and I both know we have absolutely no idea how he’ll fare over the next 5 yrs. Great players gradually decline- that’s prob what he’ll do. But, again- no one knows
Again…the bigger issue is that Cano has a full NTC and as of today, NYC is the only place he’d consider waiving his NTC. If the Mets want Diaz or Haniger….I highly doubt they’d take lesser prospects. They have been pushing the narrative that tehy want to compete this year, but that doesn’t happen with taking a bunch of non-elite prospects.
Mariners need a solid player in return and to continue with an legit vision.
For the Mets, it’s too little too late. They should have been spending when their window first opened. Now they’re just delaying the inevitable and making the upcoming rebuild more difficult because of less payroll flexibility.
Ok, a poll for the day:
Who is faster going to first?
Machado or Cano??
Cano, he hits from the left side.
good point Dray
Bartolo if you dangle a ribeye in front of him
with Panda right behind him.
Panda will be too busy picking up his broken belt
Both are faster than Pujols
omg, sweet. oops
Cano is one of the few players in history to double on a bunt. So he can hustle if there’s something in it for him. He just doesn’t do it for eyewash.
Marge Schott's Lovechild
I wouldn’t get too excited about Diaz. He’s only had one great season. The closer is the most volatile position on a team.
Diaz is a stud, i wouldn’t be worried about him at all.
eh, dude was hardly ‘great’ in 2017
and fits the TJ profile pretty well
Dude was converted to RP in AA and in a matter of 2-3 WEEKS! skipped AAA came up to the bigs. Then, in a couple weeks moved from 8th inn role to a MLB Closer. That’s special! He’s young, 24 for crying out loud. Besides, his statistics from 2017 and even this yr don’t do him justice- he had a couple of games where he gave up 2,3 Runs in blown saves that ballooned his 2017 ERA (to 3.27)and WHIP (1.15).
You’re a joke. Remember JJ Putz. He did the same thing and the Mets fell for it then too. To their regret. Relievers are notoriously volitile.
Oh so we’re doing insults now? Nice! Btw- JJ Putz was 31 yrs old coming off a season w a 3.88 ERA, he converted 15 of 23 Saves yr before the trade! Hardly the same
Yes he had 15 saves but he only play half the season,he had 36 and 40 the two prior years before his finger injury (which wouldn’t let him use his best pitch the splitter) he won the award as best relief pitcher and the Mets were suckers for trading a boatload for him (6 players including top prospects Mike Carp and a young Jason Vargas) the point being that just like Diaz, Putz was sold as an elite young closer. And he ended up being much less. Relief pitchers are a crapshoot unless you’re a Rivera or Kimberly or chapman
“Edwin Diaz reminds me of JJ Putz” said no-one ever!! And after looking at the numbers from his first 3 yrs in MLB who’s Diaz been compared to the most? Kimbrel
Marge Schott's Lovechild
So a ballplayer only has to be great one season to be a stud?
nope, doesn’t even need that much time
Marge Schott's Lovechild
You’re right. Luke Voit was great for two months and now he’s the next Lou Gehrig.
Luke Voit?!?!? WTF are you talking about?
Marge Schott's Lovechild
Why do I waste my time replying to comments on this site?
great question, no one said Voit a stud, take your nonsense elsewhere and stop trying to put words in my mouth. Diaz being a stud has nothing to do with Voit having a nice 2 months.
Marge Schott's Lovechild
I was not putting words in your mouth, pal. Relax.
Soto, Buehler, and Acura are studs.
I’m more of a Lexus guy.
Marge- his 2016 (1/2) season was also good, 2017 was NOT a bad season it was good but not great, he was 23 and still adjusting to hitters adjustments. Sorry dude, but I’ve watched nearly every game Diaz has closed, it’s not how many Saves he’s had or stats accumulated it’s how he’s dominated MLB hitters. This kid’s special- 6’ 3” tall long ‘swimmers arms’ that whip the ball in effortlessly- he’s going to be really good for a while.
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I have nothing against Diaz. I hope he has a Hall of Fame career. But one great season doesn’t make him a stud. Kimbrel is a stud because he has been great for nearly a decade. Mariano Rivera was great for 15 years. People have different opinions about which players are studs and which ones aren’t.
Rivera was always a stud. Diaz is currently a stud and a young one at that. Kimbrell was a stud but looking more like a shim lately.
Rivera wasn’t a stud when he couldn’t get out of the 3rd inning as a failed starter
Yankees found Mo by accident nobody anticipated him being great. He wasn’t some top prospect. 96 they moved him into the bullpen cause he couldn’t get thru a lineup. Then by the end of the year he was setting up Wettland. He kept things fresh when later when he started to lose it he developed a cutter. Probably the best cutter ever and it added years to his dominance. That’s what separated him from other relievers. Once he lost a couple mph he developed another pitch.
It is very interesting to see who is going back to Seattle. Not sure what prospects the Mets have to send while possibly including Bruce on this deal. I do agree closers now a days are a dime a dozen just look at what past closers are now set up guys. The closer role is such a swinging door that Diaz might be flipped by that July trading deadline for prospects.
I can’t imagine Seattle would give up Diaz just to shed a part of Cano’s contract. If they were dropping the whole contract then maybe, but not a part of it. There would have to be something pretty significant coming back from the Mets in terms of young players. Otherwise it would make no sense from Seattle’s point of view. Diaz alone would command a major return from a contending team looking for a dominant closer, probably along the lines of what Philly got for Ken Giles.
Send Colome- he had 2.53 ERA in 47 appearances w the Ms and has prior closing experience
That I could see. Colome has been a solid closer, but he has the propensity to blow up from time to time. Diaz meanwhile is young, controllable and cheap, so I really don’t understand why Seattle would want to trade him even to dump Cano’s deal. If they’re aiming to build for two years from now, wouldn’t Diaz still be young and cheap then?
Every closer blows a few saves each season, Treinen, Jansen, Diaz, Kimbrel, the lot! But I see your point- he walked the tightrope many times in between long stretches where he was dominant. Colomé unfortunately went to CWS but brought us back a decent young Catcher and I doubt if sent to the Mets he’d bring back Kelenic
Hey, with only 17 years left on the Bonilla commitment the Cano contract should slot in perfectly.
Average folk call that a mortgage.
Conforto to Seattle? He is from Seattle I would love to see Cano for Conforto deal.
Mets are not dealing Conforto
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Let’s all post our best guesses on the structure of this deal: I have 2:
1) Jay Bruce and the 2 remaining years of David Wright’s deal for Cano and Diaz, or;
2) Cespedes and Todd Frazier for Cano and Diaz
Wright retired, so his deal is voided.
M’s wont be trading Diaz without getting good young assets back
The Mets are trying to get rid of a big contract, not take two more back.
So Seattle is supposed to take on all the Mets’ garbage contracts while eating part of Cano’s and giving up an elite closer? How does that make any sense for Seattle?
i thought the exact same thing, he must be in the twilight zone
No trade of any kind.
We’re talking about the Mets.
NYM’s 1st rd selections for 2016 (Dunn) and 2018 (Kelenic) – considering both are OF prospects, I wonder if SEA would return OF in the deal or eat A LOT of the contract.
Dunn is a pitcher.
Ah, overlooked that. Thank you.
Worst GM in the game. Makes Jack Z look like a genius in comparison.
BVW is getting off on the wrong foot if he thinks this will help the Mets. Good god!! You could get any number of bodies to be your closer. The only way this doesn’t turn into a sh** sandwich is if SEA pays down half of Canos contract.
This would be so #lolmets.
And also…whats w the conflicting reports. Passan is usually a fairly dependable source. Kinda strange to have water thrown on his scoop so quickly.
If they pay 2/3 of Cano contract it’ll still be a bad deal financially.
Only an owner who got scammed by Bernie Madoff would hire an agent for a new GM.
It still boggles the mind what has happened to this organization. World Series visits about every 15 years. Was always a fun place for games, even when they sucked 60s style.
This can’t be real. Trading a broken down, ultra-expensive 2nd baseman with a closer. A. Freaking. Closer…
…and actually getting something in return? In the form of actual prospects?!
How much money exactly is Nintendo eating on this? Or has Dipoto pulled off a heist??
Cano is a really good, not-broken down player who is just old and expensive.
Allow me to clarify…over the hill.
If the Mets think that he can play an adequate second base in the National League for the remainder of that contract,
I have a bridge to sell them.
Unless the NL replaces the pitchers spot in the lineup with the DH, this makes little sense for the Mets.
Hey marine-on the surface you are right that this makes little sense for the Mets. However…
Welcome to the NY Mets drama show where deals are made by people who are so desperate to show their signature that they piss away any opportunity for suns and steady investment and development.
So when Cano breaks down (as all steroiders do) the press will be all over him. We will enjoy the “Robby Loaf” moves in the field which change based upon mood.
However the silent part of this deal is that Jay Z has thrown a million per year into Mets seats to try to push attendance up.
Were salivating in anticipation of the drama.
Another high followed by a crash for the Mets. Lol
I was waiting for “Senior Citizen MikeYanks55” Remark you literally are the biggest troll on this entire site. I hope the Yankees come in and save the Mets from this ridiculous trade scenario even Mikey Francesa thinks it makes more sense for the Yankees to bring back Cano given the Didi situation.
…and one failed drug test away from a 1yr suspension. I still think he is a solid player and I think he will produce for at least 3 of the 5 remaining years. The Mets finally have some infield depth, so they can give him regular days off and not get pinched too badly.
Diaz would bring in significantly more than just Kelenic and Dunn if he were traded on his own (think what Boston gave up for Craig Kimbrel).
So taking on Cano’s contract (which the Mets can afford) actually helps the Mets lessen the blow.
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Dipoto has never pulled off a heist. No one said he’s getting back any prospects unless you consider Jay Bruce a prospect.
Multiple major reporters have suggested that talks are centered around names of guys like Kelenic & Dunn. So, yes, it likely will result in the Mariners getting prospects back.
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Then it also involves a massive paydown on Cano’s deal and taking back Jay Bruce and maybe even Frazier.
Clearly Mets see themselves as having a 2 year window of contention. Not sure I agree.
But, if you do think you can contend for the next couple of years, the deal makes sense. Cano is overpaid, but not dramatically so, in next two years. Add him and Diaz, presumably subtract Bruce. Add a catcher, get an 8th inning guy. Looks to be a decent team, probably not as good as the elite teams in baseball, but good enough to potentially contend and with Degrom and Syndergaard would stand a chance against anyone in a short series, particularly if they get Cespedes back and he resembles his old self.
Then two years from now, tear it all down.
Not the way I’d go, but I could see it.
I’d like to see Swihart go to the Mets.
That would have made a lot of sense last summer if the could have gotten him then- they could have just installed him at catcher for 2 months and seen what they have.
But getting him now isn’t that helpful, the Mets are apparently trying to compete this season you can’t go into the year with that kind of question mark pencilled in at catcher.
He’d still be a good fit for a rebuilding team that can afford potentially atrocious play from the catcher position- but that also eliminates anyone that is developing young pitchers.
Taking a shot at the math.
Let’s say Diaz is worth Chapman money, 17 mil per year. So he’s worth 68 mil over the next 4 years. Let’s say he gets 28 mil in his 3 years of arb. That leaves 40 mil of surplus value for Diaz. That would make Cano’s contract 5/80, or 16 per year. Do you want to pay that for Cano’s age 36-40 years?
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Exactly. M’s fans are a little deluded to think Cano’s contract has any value, just because he’s a fan favorite. That deal has Jason Heyward levels of negative value, if not more, which means you need to attach a great asset to move it.
Go to fangraphs and comeback with some realistic facts
Most M’s fans know we’ll have to contribute $$ to trade him. But no value? Cano generated around 2.6-3.0 WAR in 80g after coming back from his suspension. That is value. Besides in the first 5yrs of this contract he’s contributed 20.7 fWAR worth 167m, he’s still a really good hitter and although he’s lost some range there’s few 2B that are as graceful and slick as Robbie.
Sounds cheap enough to me.
peterson is 29…quite the youngster
Our auto-linker picked up a different player by the same name. It is now fixed.
If I’m Seattle I do this immediately and move on from a very bad contract and reset. I understand the Mets position, adding Cano and Diaz catapults them up the standings.
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Correct. Seattle is a horribly constructed roster and needs to rebuild on a number of levels. They will never beat Houston as-is and probably can’t even hang with Oakland. The farm system is a mess. I understand the angst from their fans that this trade means 70 wins in 2019, but you cannot keep that Cano contract for the next half-decade. You just can’t.
Move on, And if I were Dipoto, I’d be dangling Segura to see if there are any takers and maybe even Haniger out there for a massive haul of prospects.
It’s not just 70 W in 2019- you do this trade, and believe me there’d be more to come, skin the team, there’s no guarantee you have a winning season for the next 4-5 years, none! This org. has a long long track record of failure to develop young talent. Outside of Diaz, Seager (debatable) and Felix there’s been zero can’t miss prospects in the last 2 decades.
I forgot about Paxton;) but even he didn’t reach his potential.
Adam Jones was pretty good, just not for us.
So was David Ortiz, Jason Varitek, Ivan Calderon, Matt Thornton, Billy Swift, Shawn Estes, Asdrubal Cabrera, Mike Hampton, Tino Martinez, Shin Soo Choo, Omar Vizquel, Derek Lowe – all Mariner trades that got away!! Haha WOW!
Different Mets management but still inept. This will cost them years from now.
Every time you sign someone, it’s probably gonna cost you years from now. That in itself is not an argument to not do it.
The Mets have a good rotation. Adding hitting and a closer makes sense, and $120M is not that big a cost for two players, when you’re in the biggest market in the world.
If anything, the losers in a deal like this would be the Mariners. They’d be prioritizing short term profits over building for the future. Small market owners will do that, because they can afford to alienate their fans and live off revenue sharing handouts, while fielding a competitive team maybe once a decade.
The Mariners are in way too good a market for that “business strategy” to make sense for them.
Please tell me this is just the Mets trying to make their fans think that their doing something. How about a young team?
Trading a veteran with a no trade clause to the Mets is not expected to be a hurdle? Oh I bet it’s gonna be a hurdle. Cano can choose the team he goes to, and it’s not gonna be the Mets.
Trading Kelenic would be a mistake
Cano and Diaz to the Mets for prospects.. 5 years left for Cano, which is a lot for an aging player. If Seattle is able to give away Cano’s full contract they won the deal hands down, forget the prospects.
Trade Bruce,Dom Smith,Dunn,Flores and Swarzak to Seattle for Diaz,Cano and $50 mil
Than trade Matz,Rosario and Frazier to Milwaukee for Corey Ray,Braun and Davies.
Sign Keuchel,Miller and Wilson Ramos.
Lineup: Ray,Mcneil,Cano,Braun,Conforto,Alonso,Ramos and Gimenez
Rotation: deGrom,Syn,Keuchel,Wheeler and Davies
Why would the Mariners go that deal? Get real
Why would the Brewers accept that deal too? Clearly he thinks that the other 29 team in MLB are in the business of making the Mets better, instead of making themselves better.
If Cano is a salary dump I will trade you straight up him for Chris Davis, and Davis is owed about $30 mil less.
Mets flipping Cano to skanks!!!!!!
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LOL, Cano even has more value than Crash Davis. If Davis is still owed $85 million, then he has $100 million of negative value, due to him tying up a 25-man spot.
Oh man, just saying that, I feel so bad for O’s fans.
Dude. Cano is still a 3-5 WAR player and has rated as plus defensively as well. Get into reality. The only reason his value is down is that he is going to be 41 when the deal is done
Davis likely has one of the top 3 worst contracts in all of baseball. It is literally the definition of an albatross contract. Good ‘ol Orioles bid against themselves on that one.
That’s a real waste of talent and money. They just need to burn it down and start over and forget these plug the holes trades.
I asked if that was the intent with the FO hires this week and people lamblasted me for even mentioning it. This deal will not make Mets fans happy IMO.
This has Omar Minaya written all over it
Flags fly forever Mets fans (snicker). Father time is undefeated, even steroid-addled likely HOFs succumb. This will be fascinating.
Why should they move Cano any way they can? Why is it better to package him with Diaz, than to just keep him, and when he stops being productive, just release him?
They’re still on the hook for his salary if he’s released. They want to free up payroll.
Cano is still a good player. If Seattle kicks in offsetting salary, enough so the Mets responsibilities are closer to $10 million a season, it mitigates a lot of the negative perception surrounding him.
If Seattle was willing to kick in that much, they would’ve had a deal with Cashman days ago. They wouldn’t need to be packaging Diaz.
They’re not willing to pay for their mistake out of wallet. They’d rather sacrifice Diaz, and save the full $120M. And, honestly, teams should be all over that deal. That’s a good deal for a contender, given how good both Diaz and Cano are.
Cano is the no. 3 or 4 hitter on any team. And Diaz is the closer on almost any team (he would probably end up the closer on the Yankees, too).
It must be nice to be in the room with Brian Cashman when he has these unreported conversations.
If the Mariners kick in enough for Cano to be 10 million a year for five years then he is a valuable asset by himself and no reason to trade Diaz. I think if the Mariners pay him down to 15 million per year a team with the need would consider it. Cano can still play and probably will be a solid player for 2-3 more years before falling off. I’m not real sure why the Mariners would trade Diaz with Cano especially if they are willing to kick in 50 million or so to make his contract more viable.
Well, you get a lot more with Diaz involved. And Cano at $50 million over 5 is still an overpay at his age. I doubt he’d get that in the market.
Cano would easily get $60M on the open market for three years. His last two likely worth $20M total. So you are talking $40M in relief whether in cash or taking on a guy like Bruce
You think an older, slow, dwindling power, hit only right handed 2B coming off a drug suspension would get $60 million over 3 years?
Cano’s not a bad player. But he’s not necessarily a really good one. He’s good enough.
.460 Slg over past 3 years, 130 OPS+, 3+ WAR player is worth $24M-$27M per year. Reason for lower cost per year and term is due to age. Slow is not relevant as he’s not a speed guy. With that says his base running numbers are same as they’ve always been. His defense is still rated slightly plus and he doesn’t make errors.
SD- in 2013 Nelson Cruz got 4y at $57m to be a DH the season following an 80g suspension. He was 35y old in his 1st yr of that contract.
Better yet, think of it this way. How much do you think DJ LeMahieu is going to get? He’s younger, better defensively, and equal in power potential and batting ability. Is he getting $60 million over 3?
No. He’s probably going to get $5-8 million on anywhere from 2-3 years. As a BETTER option.
DJ has played in Colorado and still not anywhere near as good offensively as Cano. Cano will probably easily outhit DJ for the next two or three years and it won’t even be close. Cano was a well above average hitter last year when played and DJ was well below according to his WRC+ and that’s playing half his games in Colorado. Cano is the far superior player and it’s not even close.
You also realize Cano hits from the left side not right side right?
DJ is not even close to Cano
Sounds fun for everyone, except Mariners’ fans.
if Seattle gets McNeil it’s going to be a win for them if most of Cano’s salary is dumped.
Give us McNiel, Giminez, Alonso and Dunn and I’m maybe OK w it. Maybe! Actually, fugg that- just don’t trade Diaz Jerry.
I don’t want Alonso myself. My deal would be this.
Mets get Cano, Díaz, $25M + Bruce contract to Mariners
Mariners get Dunn, Kelenic, and McNeil
lol. That has less than zero percent chance of happening. SEA doesn’t have any leverage. They are the ones pushing to move Cano and they will be restricted to where Cano is willing to go. I’m not saying it is fair to get $0.60 on the dollar, but that’s the reality currently.
It’s almost always smart to trade relievers following a great season. Relievers are notoriously finicky and very rarely do you find one that is great for several years in a row. It COULD be a mistake, but just ask the Phillies if they regret trading Ken Giles after his breakout season. Or ask the Cardinals if they wish they had cashed out on Trevor Rosenthal. Aside from the very top tier, closers are a dime a dozen.
A lot of people on here ripping 1 side or the other while not even knowing what the trade even is. Let it happen before you come to a conclusion, even then it may take years before you see you really made the better deal. Calling for people to be fired seems a bit ridiculous at this point.
Trading McNeil would be a monster mistake here…
I can’t be the only one who thinks that trading Diaz with Cano just to get rid of Cano’s contract isn’t a too bright idea. Diaz alone could bring back a good package.
This is such a Mets move, and no surprise that it may happen while Omar Minaya is back over there in the Wilpons ear.
I’m surprised that nobody is thinking that the inclusion of Diaz may lead to the inclusion of Syndergaard if the Mets don’t want to pay the whole contract for Cano, especially since there have already been rumors of the Mets considering a trade of Syndergaard.
I wouldn’t be surprised if this deal went crazy to fall along the lines of the following (with Minaya in the Wilpons’ ears):
Mets get Cano, Diaz, and King Felix
M’s get Syndergaard, Vargas, Frazier and/or Bruce, and Lagares.
If this trade happens, it will go down in Mets and DiPoto fashion, which may make no sense to anyone else on the planet. Keep that in mind.
King Felix has been trash for awhile now. He is a shell of his former self. As for the rest of that “deal”..uhm….I’m pretty sure any baseball video game would reject that deal bc it is so bad.
You’re not looking at the thing I pointed out in my post. This is a situation where Minaya is in the Wilpons’ ears and DiPoto is the guy on the M’s side. With these factors, there is a very good chance that, if something indeed is done, it will make no sense to anyone other than these two front offices.
The “makes sense to no one but the bad GMs”…okay…that makes more sense. I still don’t think that would happen because the Mets have waaaaaay too many cooks in the kitchen, but one of them would see how bad the deal would be for them. If there was a bad GM with too much control and not enough oversight…basically Kevin Towers trading for Shelby Miller…a horrible trade could happen.
You may be right, but who in the Mets front office do you see having the capabilities to identify something is a bad decision for them?
There’s a concept that goes, you can have a bunch of people working together to accomplish something, but if they’re all idiots, it’s going to end in bad results.
One genius can outsmart an arena filled with idiots.
Glad NYM is including McNeil in the deal – they don’t know what to do with someone with plate discipline.
If I were the Mets I’d rather look at FA relievers than have the M’s add Diaz to the deal, I mean, yeah he’s good (really good), but the Mets can’t afford to put the future in jeopardy (Dunn, Gimenez, Kelenic) for an 1-2 inning guy, that’s just stupid. If the Mets wanna consistent winner they need stop overthinking this, just aquire Cano and move on to your other needs.
This is a good post. The only thing is that Cano’s contract complicates this, so that’s why the inclusion of Diaz and very likely many others from both ends. It’s not as easy as just acquiring him because the Mets, and any other team, are justified in wanting to either get a gold piece with Cano, or have the M’s pay a lot of his contract. The M’s most likely aren’t willing to pay much of the contract considering that they are willing to trade a young talented piece like Diaz, so that’s why the Mets and M’s are in complicated discussions.
I’m thinking it goes up to or into the Winter Meetings.
Why not get Diaz AND a FA reliever? Getting Cano by himself wouldn’t make a lot of sense.
Of those three prospects, maybe ONE becomes a regular, one a part-timer, and one washes out. Even more rare that one becomes a star or even as good as Cano/Diaz. No offense meant, just the way prospects work.
For those who think Cano never hustles, watch him play defense for a while. Or check out his bunt double on youtube.
He hustles when there’s a reason to hustle. He doesn’t when there isn’t.
Couldn’t agree more- he’s an intelligent player in his mid 30’s who picks and chooses the right time to go for broke
how you get ahead and stay competitive is that you always need to buy low / sell high (and hopefully have great scouts and development staff. The M’s got into this predicament of the longest streak of any major male professional sports WITHOUT a playoff game in North America – because they have NOT done this.
You need to consistently each year (not with the entire roster, but a few pieces each year, “buy low / sell high.” This is true in all of life – be it investing, buying a house, etc. To get ahead you just can’t follow the mainstream and do what everybody else does – you have to BUCK the trend and go the opposite way.
If everybody wants Asset A – you will absolutely overpay for it and lose out in the end.
If nobody wants Asset B – it is likely undervalued. Take a look at it and see if the undervalue is worth the purchase and may over-deliver for what you paid in the end.
If a roster is consisntely overpaid and under delivers- you turn out like the M’s.
If a roster is consistently underpaid and over delivers – you are in the conversation every year and can augment here and there to get there.
So this is how all this fits with why the M’s are doing this (and i absolutely agree with it and saw it as the only way the M’s can retool correctly in the long run):
1. Eddie Diaz is the ultimate “sell high” piece. He will NEVER EVER be able to duplicate what he just did. Therefore his value and what you can get for him will NEVER be better than now. This is why it is actually a smart idea to very CAREFULLY listen to offers and try to maximize what you get out of Eddie Diaz and having him (by dealing him at his highest ever value).
2. Robinson Cano. He is obviously on the downside of his career. But he is also a “sell high” candidate because his value from this day forward will only decrease. So the best value you he will ever have this point forward is NOW – he still hits well, can still field, had a better WAR than teammate all-star Segura for MIF’s. But his contract is a complete burden. THE ONLY way anybody takes on a a Cano contract is to provide an enticement such as Diaz along with it.
A great point is a lot of people said “adding Diaz diminishes his trade value back for the M’s”. Very terrific point. But here is the LARGER point: do not estimate the VALUE of unloading Cano’s contract and freeing up all that money for payroll flexibility to retool your roster.
Simply put. The M’s previous front office created too many long-term high-end contracts and overpaid too many people that their payroll is handcuffed like crazy for the next 1/2 decade! So the M’s will ONLY get worse and their situation UNLESS they can unload atleast 2 of these contracts (and ideally ALL of them). That is more valuable RIGHT NOW in the big picture then “what can i get for Diaz”?
As for the Mets side – sorry guys… we might be willing to pay down some of the contract or take a bad contract back – but we’re not going to pay all or most of Cano’s contract and take back a bunch of old/bad contracts back. Yo don’t trade a Diaz to do that. We include Diaz so YOU can pay it. And.. any contract we take back will have to be a shorter term contract that allows us to free up payroll to redo our roster. if what the Mets offer back doesn’t do that – we don’t do it and no Diaz for you.
I expect that the M’s will do this and trade some pieces NOBODY would trade (like a Haniger) to also perhaps get rid of other contracts (like a Leake, or help move a Segura along) and still get good value back in prospects..
Remember.. if you can’t turn the trade around and say “okay i’d take it if i were the other team too” then the other team won’t be interested.
Cano (for a decent +WAR in fielding and hitting) for 1-3 years and a historically performing, young, and controllable CL of our generation and taking on some contract….
for prospects who haven’t proven sustainable success YET and maybe a not so good contract or some cash to help pay off a portion of Cano’s contract (but not much)…
i think that’s a fair deal whomever is interested in playing ball with the M’s.
But the M’s are doing this to sell high / buy low and shed 5 yrs of horrible payroll so they can redo their entire roster. Even if they don’t get full value for their best pieces. It’s worth it at this point to start over for us.
Free Clay Zavada
TL;DR – Trade for good players. Mariners suck.
I hope that’s just the first half of your post, otherwise it’s a bit short.
Edwin Diaz, Mitch Haniger and Marco Gonzales are in your words “under-paid but over-deliver” so why attach them to Cano’s contract? Attach Colomé, Pazos, Segura maybe Altavilla and Shawn Armstrong (0.6 WAR in 1 mo) but not Diaz. There’s no guarantee the prospects you receive will ever be better than Diaz and Haniger, none!
Old, beat up Cano, Bruce, Frazier and Cepedes! The crap defense! Crap base running! Please make this trade!
Bruce is most likely going to be in this trade. The Mets have too many OFs (Cespedes, Conforto, Nimmo, Bruce).
Cano is still rated + defensively by the metrics and eye test
You and I have been writing this all over this site for days and most people are either oblivious or willfully ignoring reality.
i agree with you:)
Forget Cano and Diaz keep our young guys. sign Schoop,Keuchel and Kimbrel. $$ saved from Wright and Cespedes not playing and saved $$ in free agents not resigned in aj Ramos,Blevins,Familia,Reyes.
Trade Bruce to Giants for Melancon
Trade Matz and Nimmo to Milwaukee for Corey Ray and Braun (gives the Mets speed and a RH bat)
Sign Wilson Ramos.
Rotation: deGrom,Syn,Keuchel,Wheeler and Vargas
Lineup: Ray,Mcneil,Schoop,Conforto,Braun,Alonso,Ramos and Rosario
Is this on mlb the show with force trades allowed?
Nimmo was the Mets bestvoffensive player last year and u want to trade him for 36 year old Ryan Braun, where do I start
You think the Wilpons will spend money?
What breaks the internet in half first:
A. Cano\Diaz trade
B. Avengers 4 trailer released
The Mets do not need Cano. They already have a decent fielding, and a good hitting 2B man named Jeff McNeil. What they need is free agent righty reliever Adam Ottavino who is from NY along with lefty starting pitcher Patrick Corbin who is also from NY, The Mets need another really good starter if they are seriously considering trading Syndergaard, and Corbin is the only free agent I could see who would be able to come near to matching Syndergaard’s stuff. The Mets need a right handed outfield bat who can play CF, and hit above 260 so they only guy on the free agent market that comes with no draft pick attachment is Adam Jones. I’d sign Jones who is a real professional player, and won’t cost the Mets a draft pick like signing AJ Pollock would do. Sign Moustakas, and turn around and trade both Frazier and Bruce to whomever wants them. Let Moose play full time 3B as he will also come without a draft pick attached to him, He will still jack you 40 HR’s, and bat about 250 plus he is a decent defender but will never win a gold glove. If the Mets are dead set against Moustakas then re-sign switch hitter Asdrubal Cabrera to play 3B, and Jones as the righty CF bat could work in the NY Mets everyday lineups. Asdrubal Cabrera plays statistically sound defense at 3B plus he has always hit above 270 while employed by the Mets. Cabrera or Moose for 3B should play well for the Mets as would Jones as the righty bat in CF with both Lagares and Nimmo to relieve him when he needs a day off.
hahahah leave it to the mets to obtain Cano
McNeil, Kelenic, Lagares and B level prospect for Cano and Diaz. I’m just not sure if the mets are willing to give that up. Mariners take 50 percent of contract.
Serviceable closers can be found internally or acquired pretty easily. Obviously, not Diaz level but good enough. Being able to unload Cano’s huge contract and also get some quality prospects seems like a good deal for a team that is clearly in rebuild mode.
Where are all them haters who were doubting me that the Metsbcould get Diaz in a Cano trade. I know my stuff.
I’ve given up on the Mariners. After Bavasi, Jack Z and now Dipoto I just don’t have faith in the upper management anymore to get it right.
Let’s see where Dipoto goes from here before you take that leap
Why do other teams go for expensive veteran contracts baffles me. Cano is a good player and was great when he signed but big money long term contracts never really work out even if teams pay for past production makes no sense. Mariners should trade Diaz individually and get a great return and keep improving their farm.
Cards should be in on this. I’d take Cano and diaz for salary relief. Cano may not be great 3 years from now but right now hes still good. I’d trade you wong, kelly,sosa and fowler for Cano and diaz. Be like paying 58 mil for cano and diaz. Fowler’s owed 46 I think and wong 16.
There has been zero indication that Cano would waive his NTC to move to STL.
If they want him gone, he may waiver on waiving his ntc. Wonder what he would say if they asked him
I don’t fully understand what the Mets are doing here. I would like the braves to get Diaz but I know they won’t go after Cano. The Mets can defiantly use these players but at what cost? R they going for it or getting ready to rebuild because their performance suggest they should rebuild but their actions suggest that they aren’t. Although they r shopping NS
I’d love for the M’s to pair up with the Braves too. Makes too much sense. Your farm is stacked and matches up nicely with what we need. Plus, we have exactly what you’re looking for; All Star Corner OF Bat in Haniger, All Star Shortstop in Segura, All Star closer in Diaz. Even Colome would be a fit for you – and cheaper.
Hate this packaging idea with Cano. Completely destroys the value we **would** otherwise get in return for the above said players.
Given the Mets history…I’m not sure the Mets know what the Mets are doing here. I refuse to give them any credit until they can demonstrate some good decisions and that their “act like a small market team” has been a complete failure.
Why does no one remember the fact that Cabo just produced 2.9 fWAR in half a season. That’s a 5-6 WAR player. I know he’s old but he’s still a star and his contract isn’t as much of an albatross as everyone seems to think.
Because he produced roughly the same WAR in a full season the previous season and can no longer effectively play the field. He is a 1B maybe, but more likely a DH. A very, very expensive DH that is 35. Do you know what 35 year old players do? They decline. “Cabo” is under contract through his age 40 season so whoever is stupid enough to trade for him gets a guy whose performance is guaranteed to sink every year for the next 5. PLEASE Mets, do it.
Stop! This is all ludicrous. It’s completely out of control.
So Edwin Diaz will go from 50+ saves to maybe 20-30 saves. Terrible novel by Seattle. Mets are terrible and will be for a long time.
Diaz would be incredibly valuable in another trade. The Mets could turn around and flip him or they could see how the team performs in 2019 and if they aren’t contending, could flip the best young lefty closer in the game with 3 1/2 years control.
As a fan, I want no part of Cano for my team, but he still could be valuable and, more importantly, taking a big piece of his contract to get a guy like Diaz is what a major market team trying to rebuild should do.
How can the Mets trade Hader without him being on their team?
Come on Mets, pull the trigger. 35 year old guy with $120 million owed is exactly what you need. That would kill your franchise for the foreseeable future. So DO IT!
Only the Mets would do any deal for Cano. What would their garbage club do with Diaz anyway? How do they get him the ball? Hope every guy in the rotation can pitch 8 innings I guess. New GM, same old Mets. As a Yankee fan I love the dysfunction from the crosstown clowns.
Disclosure: M’s fan
Cano is getting slammed on here. I get it, 36 and a ridiculous contact. But the people hating on him are going to be over the F’n moon when he plugs into the Mets lineup as a middle of the order bat, hit’s .290 with 28 homers and plays avg or better defense. You’d probably get that for the next 3 years. The last 2…….who knows. But Nelson Cruz is 38/39 and he’s beating the hell out of the ball like he’s 29. Cano, I feel, will be the exact same. Sure, M’s would have to own half that contract but Cano is not a “throw away” player. He’ll probably put up 5+ war next season as a 2nd baseman. All that said; I don’t like the Mets deal being bantered about. I want a fire sale but NOT with pairing our most valuable chips with a sunk/crap contract. The M’s are NOT in a financial position where they ‘have to’ dump him for money. They just ‘want to.’ That’s a big difference and if Jerry sends off Diaz for 50% because he got rid of Cano then fire him pronto.
I love Cano, I wouldn’t mind him playing for the cubs, impossible contract for them to take on though. You guys want Heyward and Russell??? Lol
Funny you bring up Nelson Cruz, he has something in common with Cano in having served a PED suspension.
Wheeler, Noah, Jacob, McNeil, Lugo, and Ahmed for Cano.. Sounds like a Wilpon move
Why can’t the Mariners restructure Cano’s contract? Why aren’t there more “diminished skills clauses” in pro sports?
Players get a big contract then get complacent and don’t play hard.
The players’ union is strong, which is one reason why they have guaranteed contracts. It’s also why they frown upon players taking a discount bc it could hurt other players down the road.
Cano is just as good now as he was when he signed. The problem was giving him 10 years.
This could be.a typical Mets scam on their fans. They get a little ahead of the market and do a deal that costs them Jay Bruce money (13 million) and then act like they’ve done their job. Cano would be around 14 mil if Seattle kicked in 10 a year. “Gee we’ve done our deal why would we need to consider a real free agent.”
Who freaking wants a 36 year old second baseman who got suspended for PEDs last year. Just go spend some money. Get Harper and quit acting like the Miami Marlins.
And get Trout too. What the heck sign Machado too!
If Segura is involved I fear the Yanks are back in the picture.
Maybe it’s not a bad thing because I happen to trust my GM and I know he will unload Elsbury and may try to get Cano to some how rework those last 3 years? If not there is no scenario where taking Cano back at 36yo will not be an albatross those last 3 years.
Cashman is involved and the Yanks are going to swoop in here and trade for Cano, Diaz, and Segura for Elsbury and a few 10-20 prospects. I think the hold up will be that Yanks either want Seattle to kick in money the last 3 years of Cano contract or Cano reworking his contract and making more this year and next and less down stretch.
Lol the Yankees don’t have nearly enough prospects to make that happen.
Prospects???? Seattle is giving up a ton of bad money so they won’t get one prime prospect back unless they are eating a ton of money!
Prospects he said!!!!
Sorry Billy but taking Ells is a bad contract just shorter and a much less effective player. Diaz is incredibly valuable and Segura has excess value too. Not going to happen for a few 10-20’s no chance.
Lol, the yankees dont have the prospects? Are you a bitter mets fan or just don’t follow baseball?
What would happen to Didi? and does cano play 1B?
Yes Cano plays 2nd, 1st, DH!
Braves and Yankees make the most sense. Braves trade for Cano, Diaz, and Segura.
ATL keeps Diaz gets 2. top 20 prospects from Yanks for their facilitation
Seattle gets Julio (stop-gap starter) and 3. 20-50 prospects from ATL
Yankees get Cano and Segura plus 12M/Year from ATL
Ohhh we we get Cano and you get Diaz?
Segura is a temporary fix!
Cmon Braves fans! You can’t get worse then the Teheran trade offers until this.
Thats a win win win for all 3 teams. Julio gets a change of scenery in Seattle plus Seattle gets prospects. Yankees get a SS and a DH at half price. Braves get a closer. It’s an actual deal that makes sense.
It really doesn’t lol Braves fans are the new Yankee fans
Why would the Mets be giving up any of those guys in a trade that involves them getting the underwater contract of Robinson Cano?
I don’t get it either! I don’t believe it either.
It’s because the Mariners would be eating a good portion of the contract along with having Diaz in the deal.
Makes more sense for the Mets to keep their prospects and just pay more of Cano’s contract
I definitely agree but it’s the Mets pay more has never been said by the Wilpons lol
I speak for most Mets fans when I say losing McNeil would make us all disappointed, he’s quickly become a fan favorite and personally my favorite player on the Mets. I love the idea of acquiring two great talents in Cano and Diaz both of whom I believe are top 3 at their postions, it’s definitely the right step in contending this year a couple more bullpen arms, a catcher and a centerfielder and I could see us making a serious run this year if we stay healthy of course like every other year.
How about this?
Mets get Cano
M’s get Bruce, Vargas, Legares, Frazier
M’s still save over half the money on Cano’s contract and the players they get back can fit onto the team. Bruce takes a corner OF spot, Legares can platoon with Mallex Smith, Frazier takes over first, Vargas goes into the rotation. Some of these guys can probably be flipped later on saving more money for the M’s.
But why would the Mets make that trade ?
1. Cano is a better hitter than anybody on their current roster.
2. They rid themselves of redundancy and save money in the first year.
3. They don’t have to surrender any prospects to get a 3rd place hitter.
4. McNeill stays to take over third base and Alonso can take over first without being blocked.
New GM. Same old Mets.
I am soo close to proving all them haters wrong. I love it!!! This just clarifies my knowledge on baseball. I had been saying for days that Edwin Diaz would have to come back to the Mets on Cano trade talks and almost EVERYONE who read that from me, blasted me, saying that the Mariners would never trade Diaz in a Cano trade to the Mets. I’m about to be proven right.
stan lee the manly
They don’t “have” to do anything, it says right in the article that they are talking about both a package involving Diaz and Cano and about both as individual trades. They could very well trade for just Cano if they wanted to.
Even a broken clock gets it right twice a day.
Also, you don’t even know what the hypothetical return would/will be…
If the Mets give up what it looks like they might give up, chances are good you’ll this move.?
*chances are good you’ll dislike the move
That because many on here have no sense of the money aspect!
I wouldn’t touch Cano with a 10 foot long version of Jose Canseco’s junk…
That is a terrible visual.
Man, if Jeff McNeil became available I’d LOVE the Dodgers to pry him away from the Mets.
Hypothetically who could the Mets get in return
That’s a great question.
He appears to possess elite bat control with solid glove work and decent base running. On the flip side, he’s 26 and doesn’t have a wonderful track record.
But the knocks against him are also reasons why I can envision Friedman making a play. Maybe the Dodgers look at him and see another Chris Taylor or Max Muncy? Oh, and his lefty bat could be a great compliment to Kiké Hernandez at 2B.
No, I want McNeil in Chicago with the Cubs!
Why do the Mets need Cano when they just brought back Dilson Herrera
Sarcasm. I’ve never gotten over letting Murphy go because they thought Herrera was the 2B of the future
I swear the Mariners have the worst organization in the history of professional sports… only competition they have would be teams who no longer exist… This coming from a M’s fan…
Lol I’m a Padres fan, you don’t know how good you have it.
Ms fan here AA- and I agree with that sentiment. I want to know who is pulling Dipoto’s strings because it doesn’t matter the GM in place there’s always something holding the M’s back. Kelenic and Dunn might be exciting young prospects but there’s no guarantee they will be better than Haniger and Diaz. Personally I would’ve kept Diaz try package Segura+Pazos maybe Colomé w Cano
Heh, watch King turn in a Cy Young season in 019.
This potential trade seems to be just more-of-the-same from both organizations, the Mets with no real plan while Seattle runs several plans at once. Confused franchises.
Astute observation. I kinda wish I’d thought of it. lol
You’re 1000% wrong. The Mets clearly have a direction and that’s to win now. I’ve been reading that Cano, Diaz & Segura could all be heading to the Mets in this trade. The Mets would be instant contenders.
Not a Mets fan but the Mets will definitely be contending for at least a WC spot with Diaz and Cano. The knack is can the pitching stay healthy? Because DeGrom and Wheeler would absolutely need to be healthy for the Mets to have any chance at contending because their Depth after DeGrom-Syndegaard-Wheeler-Matz isn’t outstanding.
Danny, Instant contenders?…Diaz cant pitch the 7th, 8th and 9th innings!! Mets need a lot more than an elite closer….we have an average offense and a top starter injury away from disaster and no relief pitching at all….
100% wrong? Hardly. You’ve succinctly summarized the Mets ongoing problem, their desire to be “instant contenders” with a patchwork lineup. The Mets are not the best team in the NL East based on three factors – hitting, pitching, and defence. Where is their offense? Why acquire Diaz if you’re only going to win 78 games? Why pay Cano for years 36-40? Makes no sense. Mets should have undertaken a proper rebuild fuelled by youth, not a 36 year old veteran fresh off a steroid suspension. We’ll see how quickly Cano’s body breaks down. Bad move by the Mets.
If Jay Bruce comes into Seattle and hits around 20 homers by the deadline would they get any value back for him?
Good ole Mets. One stupid transaction after another.
You’re clearly the stupid one.
Oh Danny boy, put down the pipes, the pipes you are smoking
Giving up McNeill would be a mistake in my opinion. I wouldn’t be surprised if he provides around the same amount of value as Cano next year.
Ok but he isn’t closing any games
Mistake I agree, as valuable as Cano…doubtful
Diaz is a very good closer but it makes no sense to trade top prospects and then take on tons of Cano’s money just to get a closer.
Yes it does, especially when you’re getting rid of unwanted contracts while getting quality MLB players in return. Supposedly, Segura could be included in this deal. Imagine the Mets getting Cano, Diaz & Segura in one trade. That would be monumental.
How are Mets fans so down on this deal ? If they can get the M’s to eat Cano’s contract down to $14 million a year and they are able to get rid of Bruce’s for the next 2 yrs and get an elite closer that will be making peanuts over that same period of time ?
So what Cano will be 41 when the contract is up it wouldn’t cripple a NY franchise it’s the biggest market in the game. Dude can still play and he plays everyday. Now if the M’s are not eating at least that much then yeah it’s a horrible deal. Key to it is they should only give up 1 prospect (Dunn), a young player on the roster ( McNiel), d’Arnaud & Bruce.
If Robinson Cano is playing under his current contract on his 41st birthday it’ll be deep into the 2023 postseason.
Lmao classic Mets move. What a waste of a team