When the Cubs came up short of the postseason this year, it broke a string of four consecutive appearances. It also prompted the organization to prepare for some major changes. To this point, we’ve heard lots of chatter featuring the team’s biggest stars as trade candidates. But no real change … yet.
It’s a bit of a curious situation. By all indications, the Cubs have reached the internal decision to get under the luxury tax line. There are clear financial incentives for teams to do so, at least every few seasons, to duck the biggest monetary penalties under the current CBA. But … now? After assembling this long-awaited core? And after signing Craig Kimbrel six months ago, in the middle of the season?
We’ve been led to believe that the Cubs baseball operations department feels it must explore deals involving its best players because it simply doesn’t have authorization to spend otherwise. And the status quo isn’t optimal for 2020 or beyond. That situation is rather difficult to square strategically with the Kimbrel signing, which occupied all of the team’s remaining flexibility. But perhaps ownership decided on this course more recently. The team is facing major Wrigley renovation cost overruns, albeit possibly of their own making.
Whatever the background, the situation remains: if the Cubs wish to change their roster, so far as we can discern, it’ll have to come via trade. The Cubs could try to shave some salary associated with the ill-fated Jason Heyward, Tyler Chatwood, and Daniel Descalso deals, though that doesn’t figure to be easy and would cost prospect capital to pull off. With a farm system already picked over for prior additions, any major overhaul will almost certainly require the departure of quite a significant player.
Javier Baez seems more like an extension target than a trade candidate, but we’ve heard loads of talk about Kris Bryant (at least, once his grievance is resolved). Willson Contreras was in the news quite a bit earlier in the winter. Yu Darvish doesn’t seem inclined to waive his no-trade rights, but could Jose Quintana be discussed? Or even Kyle Hendricks? Kyle Schwarber would no doubt be made available in some scenarios. And the team evidently isn’t seeing eye to eye with first baseman Anthony Rizzo; might there be a chance he’s moved?
At this point, we don’t really have great reason to think any particular player is likely to be sent out. Bryant and Contreras certainly occupy in-demand positions, but there hasn’t been a strong rumor indicating that a swap is approaching. We haven’t even heard specific rumors on all of the players listed above, but can the Cubs really take anyone off the table at this point?
There’s still loads of uncertainty, so it’s a good time to ask for everyone’s best guesses. So … will they make a deal? (Poll link for app users.)
And which player is likeliest to be moved? (Poll link for app users. Response order randomized.)
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Trading Kris Bryant is a DUMB popular opinion. .900+ OPS every year
Depends what is gotten in return.
Toussaint and Wilson for Bryant if the Cubs are just looking for starting pitching.
Newcomb, Inciarte, and Camargo if they want multiple positions field at the mlb level.
According to baseballtradevalues.com both of these trade scenarios are pretty close.
in that case BBTV might as well close down. try combining those two packages and using that as a starting point.
You’re overvaluing Touissaint. Dude can’t find the plate most of the time. It’s going to take at least 1 premium prospect (Waters, Wright), though I think they can get away from including Pache/Anderson, but who knows once Donaldson signs.
Yes that’s horrible.
Any trade for Bryant I think starts with Riley and Wright. There would be other pieces depending on what cubs want back, but if arms I think Wilson or Davidson would be added. Contreras would prob make fans happy, especially if they trade the elder Contreras.
Cubs aren’t getting pache waters or Anderson with Braves paying the 43 million salary. AA will just walk away if they ask for more.
They just dont wanna say there best prospects lol. But yessir you gotta give up one or 2 for him to start. Ppl are so funny. Go thing they are not owners or GMs. Ha
The only Braves pitching prospect that interests me is Anderson.
~$20 million for ~4.5 WAR, then ~$25 million for similar performance is not worth that much
@DarkSide830
You can check them out yourself. They even have an actual article on there explaining trade scenarios for Bryant and suggest the Newcomb, Inciarte, and Camargo trade.
The other one I did just see what is the most lopsided trade in the Braves favor, but he close to what it would take. Bryant valued at 27 while Toussaint and Wilson value at 26.8
Then again BBTV also thinks Wright and Wilson is almost an overpay for Arenado.
Pick one prospect in the top 20-25in baseball. Add a couple more pieces with at least one being a MLB player or MLB ready.
Any trade for a player with a .900 OPS every season and 2 seasons of control starts one of the Braves top 2 prospects.
@outinleftfield
So Wright (#35), Inciarte, and Camargo could be very close in your assessment.
If he loses his grievance (as is being predicted) he’ll only have 1 year left. So, as laughable as Braves25’s offers were, the Braves (and any other club) have the upper hand in negotiations if that happens.
That said, the Cubs could just look at the trash in the proposals above and say “We’ll QO him and take our chances with the comp pick”
Lol, more like Fried, Riley, and Wright
Nobody knows if Bryant has 2 years of control. If Bryant somehow wins that grievance, the Cuba should expect to only get half the return back since Bryant’s acquiring team will only get him for half the time. Not to mention that the Cubs lose a lot of leverage considering every team knows that Bryant wants out of Wrigley and will never re-sign there. It’s not like by trading him away the Cubs are losing an opportunity to extend him like most teams do. That’s never gonna happen. There is basically a zero percent chance that Bryant will ever put a Cubs uniform on again after the 2021 season, even if they don’t trade him. Possibly after next season even if they don’t trade him. It’s even worse than the Mookie Betts situation because Betts is still willing to sign with Boston after he tests the free agent market. That won’t happen with Bryant. A year or 2 from now Kris Bryant will permanently be gone from the Cubs clubhouse and everyone knows it. Unless the Cubs truly believe that Kris Bryant will more likely than not carry them to a world championship in the next 2 years, they basically have to trade him sometime between now and then. It’s a question of when, really.
On another note: Why is Yu Darvish even an option on this list? He has very little trade value compared to his salary and he has a full no trade clause. Most importantly, Darvish has already stated that he has “no intentions of waiving his no trade clause” under any circumstances. The Cubs aren’t even going to try and trade him because it would only insult and irritate him and then they would just be stuck with him pissed off in the clubhouse for the next 4 years. If a player with a full no trade clause openly says he will not allow himself to be traded, that player should not be considered a trade candidate.
Newcombe, Inciarte and Camargo? Not close.
Newcomb, inciarte, and Camargo?!!? Put the pipe down! NOW.
Those are all currently secondary pieces. They could get that level of a trade with many teams. Without Pache or Fried or ?, I don’t think the Braves get him.
Its been routinely predicted Bryant will lose his grievance but we shall see shortly
Anyone who thinks the Cubs will trade Bryant….they won’t…to Atlanta and not get Pache needs to stop posting.
@StandUpGuy
So Bryant wants “out of wrigley” and will never resign no matter what they offer you say …. blahahaha laughing right in your face
A borderline ACE, a plus pitcher and a hitter with demonstrated 30-HR power, all trending up with 14-15 years of control between them and they are practically free this year. For 2 years of Bryant at $45-$50 million? Not happening.
If Bryant ‘loses’ his grievance, the cubs (or whatever club) will have ‘2’ years of control
When did Bryant say he wants out of Wrigley? First I’ve heard of it.
@StandUpGuy I don’t think the idea that Bryant won’t sign an extension with CHC has any effect on his trade value. No competent GM bakes in some sort of expectation that he will be able to extend a guy just because he traded for him.
And as far as you acting like Bryant already has one foot out the door, everyone has a price. If the Cubs offer Bryant $350m tomorrow, he’s signing an extension. Regardless of who said or did what to whom.
Starting pitchers who throw like Darvish did in the second half last year ALWAYS have trade value. It’s what you have done most recently directly proportional to your salary comparative to others which now looks like a bargain if he can continue to be Yu. Every armchair fantasy leaguer thinks it’s easy to compete after a major injury, particularly for a pitcher who relies on accuracy and location and feel; Darvish is on a slower pace to reclaim that feel for the rhythm and his dominance. If he ever relocates his stuff like of old (similar to the second half last year), he would command a hell of a return in a trade if that scenario even presented itself or if he even agreed to it (no-trade clause).
And Anderson and William Contreras
Both of those trades suck for chicago
The cubs would get Anderson waters and wilson just to start. Those 3 and Wright. That’s what they asked for anyway. Any three of those 4. They might as well ask for all 4.
Please provide documented proof that Bryant wants out of Wrigley and will never resign there. I stopped reading after these blatant lies.
Interesting.
Bryant and his disease named Boras are gone. He wants Rendon money. He’s an injury prone fader. The benefits clearly out weigh keeping him. Contreras should also be gone. Caratini is the better of the two. Lefty batter. If fully recovered from the broken hand- which he should be he’s a star in the making. He was on a strong start last year before the injury. Contreras is a poor receiver. I also believe Caratini would have great value in the trade market. Schwarber is an average LF with a big arm and a guy with a huge potential at the plate in 2020. His RBI’s were way up and with the switch to Ross I expect him to finally be properly positioned in the lineup. Dump Wilson and Kris. Get a cheap backup catcher. Give the job to Caratini. Put Horner where ever he’s better suited. If it’s third find a second baseman. Bote looked serviceable at third but totally sucks at second. He’s probably ok at third as a stop gap. His pay is 3 mil vs 20-30 for Bryant it’s a no brainer. The 27 mil savings gives many options. After dumping Bryant and Contreras spend for pitching and the real need- a center fielder that’s a table setter. BYW Heywards an anchor that can be thrown away in trade for another washed up player with a big contract after 2020 is over. Maybe someone that can eat some
Innings. Heyward and Almora are same player just one bats left and the other bats right. They should be platooned this year. Cubs need to send Heyward to hitting lab. 15 2 base hits in 2019. What a waste.
Not sure if you’re a Cubs fan. If you are you’re not that great of fan if you want the best catcher in baseball to be gone when they need to extend him in 2 years.
Injury prone? Like when he got hit in the head with a fastball? Please provide documented proof showing the money that Bryant wants. You are clearly a sox fan if you say that Caratini is better than Contreras. What an idiotic post.
he sucks with runners on, the year he won MVP is laughable, he wasn’t the best player on the team. get rid of him while he has value, there’s a zero percent chance he resigns.
Kris Bryant hit .305 with 17hrs and an OPS of .977 in 223 ABs with runners on base in 2019. He doesn’t “suck” with runners on. So again, you’re just regurgitating things you hear from other dumb Cubs fans. Like I said, it’s a DUMB popular opinion
I’m a Cubs fan, and watch almost every game. in the year he won MVP his numbers came from no one on or when game was out of hand. I should have clarified, clutch hits or pressure hits he sucks. nice 3 run HR in the 8th Kris, Cubs are up 8 already. meanwhile he strikes out with the bases loaded 3 times in a row. his best case scenario with runners on and a close game is a sacrifice. don’t put me in the category of dumb Cubs fans, they’re are plenty of them though. this is fact, look it up.
.209 with RISP and 2 outs.
.181 in games considered close & late in game. I’d screen shot it for you if I could, but he disappears with the game on the line and for how much he’s going to make, it certainly isn’t worth it.
Dray16 absolutely correct. And so many of his HRs came against the Reds and Pirates that year. And he still can’t hit a change up
Idiot remark from a white sox fan.
KB hit .255 in those situations. Strangely, Trout hit. 209 w/ 2 outs and RISP… Does he suck?
Well, you make an interesting point. The Angels were not close to the playoffs. Maybe they’d win more games if Trout didn’t disappear when it mattered.
Dray those are strong points with facts to back it up. Well done.
Two words regarding Bryant: Scott Boras
Get multiple prospects for him and let some other team worry about the $300,000,000 to $400,000,000 Boras will be demanding for a .275 hitter who knocks in less than 100 runs and doesn’t hit in the clutch.
Correct, the Cubs no longer have any “stars” to trade.
Whatever they had, has supernova’d and left only black holes.
I love your second sentence. If you didn’t secure a copyright I would love to borrow it and use the phrase for a more appropriate team like the Giants.
Go for it!
Good Luck with Gio Gonzalez
Don’t need it, but thanks!
We have “Coop”!
Clutch stats are useless. Studies have shown what guys hit in clutch situations is close to what they hit overall. The idea that any player can pick and choose when they get their hits is absurd. If a guy goes 3 for 4 and the one time someone was in scoring position he made an out you’re going to say he sucks? Was he supposed to go 4 for 4 instead? Or maybe he should have arranged it so that the time he made an out was when no one was on, and got one of his hits when there was a RISP. Claiming a guy isn’t clutch is just grasping for something negative when there’s nothing else.
Agreed, clutch hitting is not a thing. It can fluctuate a lot from one season to the next. But the dumb people are never going to learn. A lot of them on here still think batting average is important.
Clutch doesn’t exist, but choke does. Clutch is just the absence of choke,
Statistics are deceiving and can easily be padded, as Bryant’s stats are. The Bryant of 2015-2016 is very different from the Bryant of 2017-2019.
Still a very good player, don’t get me wrong, but the eye test tells the other part of the story. In big moments, he leaves a lot to be desired, and his playoff appearances, aside from 2016, have been absolutely abysmal.
Defense is also mediocre, at best. Given the mindset and lack of flexibility of the front office, and the fact that Bryant wants an ENORMOUS payday, and will likely walk away in two years, exploring trade possibilities for him makes enormous sense.
The Cubs are not built to win a World Series over the next few years. I would trade him for a big enough haul, if the right names are included.
Funny, if you say he is so bad with game on line & other stuff. Which is clearly just fan observations, but of course Cubs should trade him if they get a haul..
LMAO. If these were real weaknesses wouldnt GM’s & their respective FO know this and refuse to trade anything of real value for KB?
FYI Bryant has been 2x as valuable as Baez aince 2015.
KB is simply the whipping boy for Cubs fans. Theo ahould trade him to a real team, with real fans.
Baez is one of the best players in the game and plays a much better defense. Stop it.
@jdan74 – Bryant had 1.125 OPS in late and close games last year. You don’t know what youre talking about.
Postseason performance is extremely meh to begin with. Not a good foundation of an argument, just sayin.
His clutch number improved last year, but still overall, not good. And again, numbers only tell half the story. Anyone that actually watched all the games can see it as clear as day. So please refrain from replying back with more numbers. They don’t tell the whole story of what goes on. He’s a whiff machine, and if a premier player can’t hack it in the playoffs, really what good are they? Funny how you’re all about stats but then are so quick to dismiss the abysmal postseason stats, hypocrite. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
If the Cubs aren’t going to be able to contend, then they should also send Rizzo and Hendricks out the door as well.
Yes, keep him for another year and get NOTHING in return. He doesn’t like the Cubs and won’t re-sign. Trade him NOW!
If you want to contend now, trading Bryant now might not be all that smart. But this is the Cubs we’re talking about, they want to be just good enough to delude Cubs fans into thinking the team is a contender, which doesn’t take much.
This!
Please provide documented proof that Bryant doesn’t like the cubs and wont resign. These idiotic posts from sox fans are beyond comprehension.
We been over dis! Da city council won’t approve da installing da jacuzzis on da roofs across da street. Weez was goin’ to get $200 a soaking body and sell dem drinks for $20 bucks each but da commies on da council are shakin’ us down!
What a waste of a comment.
Agreed
Sure he has a 900 plus ops every year if you throw out 2015 and 2018. Lol
I agree but seems like Theo has made up his mind someone is getting traded . I am a Cub fan and tired of no money talk . They could have 5 Strasburg’s 7 Aroldis Chapman’s and 9 Mike Trouts and still kicking people out of rooftop building and building Starbucks and hotels
This is such an incomplete comment. Of course, on surface level you keep players like Bryant. However, once you factor in these things:
-There’s holes in other areas of the roster
-Chicago doesn’t have a lot of money left to spend
-Trades and graduations have depleted the farm system
-The demand for 3B outweighs the supply
-He’s going to test free agency (and walk for nothing but a comp pick)
-He’s going to command more than $200 million in his next deal. (As will Baez)
If you can liquidate Bryant into 2-3 controllable talents that can help now or in a year while clearing some payroll to reallocate it elsewhere, that’s not an idea that can be easily dismissed.
Do you really want the Cubs to get in a bidding war after he files for free agency? And you know he will file because of his agent. So I think it’s a “dumb opinion” to say they should keep him.
No, what’s dumb is letting him leave in free agency for just a draft pick. If he ends up with two years left on his current contract, the cvbs would get nice return in a trade. Maybe enough to revitalize the roster and get them back to contention.
Agreed they will get a good haul but not enough to get that back in contention
They’re in contention now.
What’s dumb is repeating the same mistakes over and over and getting the same results. The Cubs have to do something even if it means Trading or not trading Bryant in the end. I don’t know why people continuously think aging and mediocre pitching coupled with an offense who can’t score for two seasons is gonna win you a championship again?? This team got one in 2016 and now it’s time to change it up. If they’re not resigning these players the smart thing to do is trade them for top prospects if at all possible. It’s not that hard of a concept.
Wonder boy GM hasn’t proven he can take it down and build it back up. That is a talent that requires a Dombrowski type genius.
Keep Bryant, work on an extension. Move Heyward, and get a lead off guy. Work on the pitching as well
It’s fairly obvious Bryant has zero interest in an extension for what the cvbs are offering him. The cvbs allegedly offered him $200MM and he said no. There’s not much left to “work” on at this point. The cvbs have chosen to move on, which is the right decision.
You don’t know that. And you don’t know how much influence Boras has or doesn’t have with Bryant.
This happened post ‘16…Was an obvious ‘No’ from Boras then. Maybe not so much now, though he probably surpasses
They never offered an extension. He wont get more than Arenado. He’ll be so when he’s a free agent in two years. Bryant has said multiple times he’d love to stay in Chicago.
Not to mention no team is going to take on Heyward’s contract, let alone give up talent for him. At best, if you wanted to move Heyward, you pay down a big part of his remaining contract, but at that point you may as well roster him. He’s overpaid but not useless.
He’s GOING to file for free agency. The Cubs would have to overpay him. I think it would be DUMB if they don’t trade him.
Bryant’s a stud. They ask for the stars and pass if they don’t get it. They can cut payroll at the trade deadline if they aren’t in the hunt. This is such a stupid conversation. Cubs aren’t giving away kris Bryant for borderline prospects. They can trade Quintana for any marginal prospect and they are under the luxury tax.
I don’t think he’s going to resign with the Cubs it’s not like I have personal knowledge I just got a feeling that he isn’t going to.
So I understand trying to get a max deal for him because he does have a 900 Ops it’s just going to be hard to replace, you got to make sure you win the trade
Dumb how ? If hes openly expressed interest in free agency, why allow him to leave for nothing….that’s DUMB
how much do the Cubs eat on his salary? he wants out that doesn’t help the situation
Not saying it’s smart, just most likely.
Heyward for Myers? For San Diego it would be getting a player with some slightly higher upside, for the Cubs it would be getting some whose salary about matches Heyward’s, but whose AAV is much lower.
Cubs aren’t giving away a LH bat. Especially for an expensive, outfielder who is not very good on defense. Also JHey is a decent overall player. The length of the contract is what makes his ‘situation’ debatable.
They can equalize the talent with specs, but Myers contract ends a year earlier and he costs $10M less each in against the tax while making basically the same amount.
That would be quite the benefit for the Cubs in their tax goal and means they don’t have to trade a star player
Decent lol? He hasnt posted a season over 2 WAR in 4 seasons. I wouldnt do Myers for heyward strait up.
Heyward is far superior defensively.
……And since Heyward went to the Cubs, Myers Bat has been much more productive than Heyward’s….even with a horrible year in 2019.
Heyward – 542 games, averaging 120 H’s, 11 HR’s, 57 RBI’s, 75 2B’s, 6 SB’s
Myers – 550 games, averaging 119 H’s, 22 HR’s, 67 RBI’s, 105 2B’s, 19 SB’s
It was amazing when these guys signed these contracts and I recall nearly everybody wondering what the hell the GMs were thinking…..
Did you list doubles? What year is this?
How about this: for their careers
Heyward
5580 PA
107 wRC+
31.1 fWAR
Myers
3145 PA
107 wRC+
9.5 fWAR
What are YOU talking about?
He made 6 errors this year, same as Schwarber but had less outfield assists.Bryant led the Cubs in errors, 15. The Cubs still owe Hayward $86M. Dump him and sign Castellanos.
“Dump him”. Fans are so dumb. Dump him how? Who’s taking that albatross? If you sitting here on a baseball rumor app know what hot garbage he is I’m sure the people getting paid to put teams together know too.
You aren’t a “fan”? If you are, you just called yourself dumb.
Mistry, you’ve gotta be kidding. GMs don’t rate defensive ability using errors and assists. They use the advanced metrics and statcast data. Errors are even more meaningless than batting average. This is 2020, come on man.
Defense from A RF, unless it’s elite, decreases in importance with fewer balls in play. And BB REF has his defense as a negative last year. I think they’d give him away at this point.
That’s a really interesting insight, redmatt. Could you say the same thing about the value of defense at every position?
Heyward has some value, Myers has zero
Why would they trade Heyward? He’s improved every year since he signed.
Cubs have the talent to win, but let’s be honest Theo has made some DUMB money decisions in last few years(Heyward, Darvish, Kimbrel)
Darvish wasn’t a bad move at $22/yr. And jury still out on Kimbrel.
But what made Theo give JHey an 8 year contract- is mind boggling.
Heyward is a relic (maybe the last one) of the period when baseball execs made an absolute fetish out of defensive ability, especially in the OF. The metrics were relatively new, and they tended to greatly exaggerate how many runs a good corner OF like JH was worth. No one would value him that highly anymore.
Actually, he was a Beast of a Hitter when he first came up with Atlanta…..but they changed his whole approach, and tried to make a lead-off hitter out of him. He was breaking windshields in the parking lot his 1st season.
I blame the Braves for ruining him.
He injured his shoulder in 2011 (I think), and was never the same after that.
Heyward was young and had an amazing season with the cards. Hind sight is 20/20. In reality he could still excel for a season or two. He’s not the OLD
Heyward also hasn’t been the same since he was hit in the face. That most definitely changed him.
What I find more “mind boggling” is the hindsight negativity with the Jason Heyward contract. I don’t recall too many fans criticizing the Heyward signing when it occurred, especially as a talented 26-year old free agent who already had 6 very productive years under his belt according to most experts including those who swear by advanced metrics.
I also recall that the Cubs didn’t even have the best offer for Heyward. I believe his former Cardinal team had a better one on the table. Most Cardinal fans were disappointed that Heyward departed and the majority of Cub fans were ecstatic that their beloved stole him from their bitter rivals.
It amazes me how some of my Cub fan brethren continue to defend the Aroldis Chapman rental trade for uber-prospect and now Yankees star Gleyber Torres and don’t allow the same benefit of the doubt to Heyward’s contributions to the Cubs lone 2016 World Series championship. I get the fact that Torres was a prospect at the time but we all know that is no longer the case. Somehow, even with hindsight it was still worth trading 3 months of Chapman for a perennial All-Star talent like Torres while they continue to bemoan Heyward who was still a part of two additional Cub playoff teams in 2017 and 2018.
I prefer to direct my disgust at manager Joe Maddon for his misuse of players like Heyward AND the front office for the trades and subsequent poor FA contracts needed to acquire pitching because they lacked the foresight to develop arms like they did bats, rather than at the actual players themselves. I’ll stick with my preferred criticism of Joe, Theo and Tom and harp less about the contributions of Jason, Yu and “Q”!
Cardinals offered a bit more in overall money, but they refused to include any opt outs on the offer. So it was only better in the sense that the money was higher, opt outs are arguably more valuable for players than a higher payday.
1. Cubs outbid the Nats by 20MM. A lot of skepticism when it happened.
2. If you wish Gleyber was currently on the Cubs, you’re okay with Hector Rondon making 13 appearances in 17 playoff games in 2016.?Cubs win? Holy Cow?
3. Cubs draft Jon Gray ‘to develop pitching’ at 2, and leave Bryant for Col at 3?
It
Heyward for sure. Darvish and kimbrel can still be worth it.
Darvish going forward looks very affordable.
Don’t forget Chatwood and Morrow.
Cubs will be trading the fat Kimbrel contract when they realize they’re only ahead of the Pirates in July
Hey hey hey!
Here comes “fat Kimbrel”!
Highly doubtful. If kimbrel pitches like last year cubs will suck and zero chance they can move it. If he pitches well cubs will be in the hunt.
There are a lot of major stars available for trade this offseason for boatloads of prospects, yet none have been traded. Teams aren’t going to trade multiple future stars for rentals anymore. The Cubs can maybe trade Quintana because starting pitching is always in need, but they won’t get a lot for him.
Whoever loses out on Donaldson will look at a Bryant deal. The guy has a higher WAR (27.8) than Donaldson, Arenado and Rendon from 2015-19. Yet he will be less expensive than any of them over the next 2 years. And there is upside to having “only” 2 years. Without making a huge payroll commitment, a team has 2 years to decide if they wanna go the long term route. It would cost serious prospects but a team like the Braves, who have immediate payroll constraints, could use some of that prospect wealth they have and give the middle of their order a huge bump.
Feel like it’s going to be Kris Bryant. Thinking the grievance he filed against CHC left a bad taste in their mouth and once it’s settled he will be out. Already have teams like Nationals and Braves showing an interest.
While I admittedly don’t follow the situation closely, I had no idea the Wrigley renovation would be running into cost overruns. My first thought is when you let your stadium override the team that plays there, that’s foolish. My second thought is that if the powers that be thought ANYTHING having to do with construction would come in at or under estimated cost, that’s also foolish (or at least way overly optimistic).
However… Cubs fans are legendary in their loyalty, and I’m guessing that ownership is counting on strong attendance regardless of the product on the field. I’m reasonably sure that continued stadium improvements will come with continuing rising revenue generated at the stadium… so in the long run (as per usual), profit will supercede baseball.
The Ricketts may have overestimated the demand stickiness of the current fan base with respect to win %, especially if the economy goes into recession. They need bodies going to the game to leverage their massive capital investments around Wrigley, but they seem clueless about how ticked off fans are at their perceived stinginess with current roster changes.
Any stadium improvements have absolutely nothing to do with the hedge on spending for playing talent. Rickets prefers to have his GMs not give away so much of the future, for short term gratification- as Theos tendencies have been – in Boston as well as Chicago.
Stadium improvements are a capital investment that only makes sense if the net present value of the annual return exceeds that of the investment. Annual revenues utterly depend on w%, and discounting means near term revenue changes mean much more than long term changes.
An 80 win team is going to draw a crapload fewer fans than a contending team – could be as much as a drop of 500-750K fans compared to a 90 win team, and that difference is likely to increase with improved amenities as it has been shown that new stadia are complements and not substitutes for w%. (See for example, Quinn et all in the J. Of Sports Econ).
If you think that is too eggheady to be right, then you should think about how billionaires actually make investment decisions. They don’t rely on posting son fan websites.
Sorry, but the Cubs don’t have a problem selling either tickets or merchandise. Ricketts doesn’t want to exceed the cap, mainly because it would hurt their draft position and likely he saw that Theo was compromising their future spending with too many contracts that weren’t working out.
We’ll see. I would predict that an 80 win Cub team draws about 2.6 million, not 3.1 mill. That is about where they were in 2014. Assuming that they are getting $60/attendee in revenue at the margin, that is about $30 mill less in ticket and other revenue, plus lower attendance affects the follow year’s stadium ad and sponsorship revenue, not to mention the ridiculous amount of special club space that they’ve added in recent years. The luxury tax hit pales by comparison.
I would also note the Cubs avg tick price in 2014 was about $44, and was about $59 in 2019, more than a 30% increase, only 8.6% of which is CPI inflation. I’m not sure how the Cubs’ own scalping operation’s ticket prices avg price changed, but I am willing to bet it is much higher than that.
There is nonzero cross price elasticity with White Sox tickets, and given a much improved Sox team, a meh Cubs team is going to see ticket and attendance- derived revenues dipping by many tens of millions next year.
45+ years as a Cubs fan, always been a team before player kind of fan. But wow, Cubs are making it hard. From the Chapman trade to Russell to disability seating. After all the promises of a new cubs era of people before players and its all horseshit. If I didn’t hate the sound of metal bats I might be done with pro ball and follow the college game, but the dang ding is awful.
Catch a falling star and put it in your pocket
i just dont see the Cubs really being interested in trading away Bryant. Q seems like the one they would trade, though i doubt anyone leaves in the end.
Depends on whether they’re planning on extending him (for like 35m a year). If not, they should absolutely be interested in trading him if the return’s solid.
im not saying they dont have a validation for exploring offers, but i just dont see enough smoke to believe there is really a fire. many teams should or shouldn’t trade players, but it doesnt always work out that way.
“ . . . if the return is solid.” I take it that means more elite prospects, guys who the Cubs would develop, with the hope that one of them might one day be as good as, um, Bryant. I would argue that when you find a talent like Bryant, you find a way to keep him. If you disagree, seamaholic, then I wonder how you imagine some team would offer “a solid return” for a player you undervalue.
Bryant will go, Hayward will go (along with one catcher) and they will sign Castellanos.
Cards fans are lol’ing <3
Bryant to Rangers for some magic beans.
That’s more than the Braves fan at the top was offering anyway.
No matter how high ticket prices rise or how much the team sucks, Cubs fans will just keep forking over their money and showing up to games-this was the consensus from a consulting firm the Ricketts hired in 2008 before buying the team.
It’s embarrassing they have gone back to where they started when they purchased the team in 2009, but ownership doesn’t care as long as the sheep keep showing up. They never changed the culture they exploit it.
so now instead of blaming the owners we are blaming the fans? just proof enough of how flawed this argument is.
If Bryant has 2 years left on his deal he is the one to move. The Cubs pitching isn;t good enough to win the NL anymore. They are going to lose Bryant anyway and now is the time to get the most value for him. I would look at Braves, or Dodgers to get some pitching.
I basically agree with you, slider. But Quintana could also be dealt (maybe as a sweetener with Bryant) in the right deal. I might be alone here, but I would just as soon see Chatwood get the ball in the rotation, as Q.
Trade Q back to Sox for Covey, Fulmer and a spare tire.
Covey and Fulmer aren’t even worth a spare tire.
We’ll throw in a bag of peanuts as well. Cubs should take it.
Quintanna/Almora for Buxton ??
Bryant or Contreras are probably the most likely to be traded. Bote or Hoerner can step in at 3b to replace Bryant. Rizzo is a staple and the leader. I wouldn’t consider Schwarber a star. Baez is the team’s personality and would require the largest return of that group.
If Maddon wasn’t Schwarber’s manager, he definitely would already be a star. If Ross plays him every day, he is going to be one of the league’s offensive leaders.
I agree 200%. I also believe Almora and Happ will excel with Maddon gone.
Yep. It is very possible that the Cubs could have four .900 OPS hitters in the lineup for 2020 with Happ, Schwarber, Rizzo, and maybe Baez. If Bryant somehow isn’t traded then 5 is possible. All this bashing of the Cubs, but not many teams could boast an offense like that. Maddon just got it all wrong with Schwarber. Constantly moving him around in the lineup, the leadoff experiment, limiting his at bats against lefties, sending him to the minors, etc. If Ross gives Happ and Schwarber full seasons, that is at least 70 homers and 200 RBI.
I think Maddon leaving will be good for Schwarber, but I don’t think it fixes Almora and Happ’s issues at the plate.
Baez is more than the team’s personality
I was implying that he is also their best player/biggest talent when I said that he would require the largest return.
I agree a little at this point, but I honestly don’t think Bryant is going to put up anything better than he already has, while Schwarber quite possibly could have some monster seasons.
Really? This whole time I thought it was just his personality…
No matter how high ticket prices rise or how much the team sucks, Cubs fans will just keep forking over their money and showing up to games: this was the consensus from a consulting firm the Ricketts hired in 2008 before they purchased the team.
They talked about changing the culture but in reality-they only exploit it.
Much has changed about the dynamics of Cub fan behavior over the past dozen years. Having seen that study, I would be very, very skeptical about extrapolating those findings to a significantly changed demand environment.
Well everyone wants to be a part of winning (even just once), after losing for so long…..so you could argue a “changed environment” immediately after winning, is timely and warranted
They don’t have any stars.
Lol.
Same ol’ Cub hater with the same ol’ theme.
Bryant and Contreras I get. But how on earth do 200+ people think Schwarber makes sense? You have a guy that is going into his prime that is going to knock 40 homers with around .900 OPS, AND makes opposing pitchers go deep into counts constantly for a reasonable price, that isn’t going to get a big prospect package in return. Here is an unpopular opinion= If I had to choose between the next 6 years of Schwarber or Bryant, I choose Schwarber. I will bet he absolutely dwarfs Bryant’s stat line during that span.
Trade Contreras to the Pads for Hedges and Patino. Trade Bryant to Braves for Fried and Waters. EASY!! All teams would be happy with that, and Cubs get two young controllable pitchers with a higher skill set than Lester and Quintana , a future CF, and a defensive specialist backup catcher. ANY QUESTIONS THEO?
Ah! The absurd Schwarber love affair continues! He’s a platoon LF/DH who can’t play anywhere else, who’s not young anymore (27 this year) and is about to get expensive. The only reason why the Cubs wouldn’t trade him is that the return would be too light to bother.
Wow, I know it is only January 1st, but that comment just may hold up as the dumbest of 2020. And that isn’t easy considering the comments posted here daily.
its not too far off. defensively limited player with a relatively narrow offensive scope. i wouldnt say he’s not young still, but he will start to get more expensive soon.
Seriously? 27 as a left fielding power hitter is plenty young. And just stop with the constant knocks of his defense. You can quote the stats all day, but I watched every single game and the guy is now a VERY competent LF, with a great arm. His original position was catcher, which if injuries happen to the starter he can still play. I am glad he is undervalued, because maybe he wont’ be as “expensive” as the overrated players are like Bryant. By they way, the platoon thing along with trying to make him a lead off hitter were just a couple of the many mistakes made by Maddon.
If Schwarber played in KC or Miami, nobody would know who he was. As soon as he hits advanced arbitration, say thanks and kick him down the stairs (gonna be some kind of thunk).
Hey “seamaholic”, Schwarber led the Cubs in home runs 38, had 92 RBIs playing part time, had the same amount of errors as golden glover Hayward with more assists, hit .293 after the all star break and thats when Maddon finally hit him against lefties. Watch a game sometime. and then comment.
@Mistrygm: And that’s exactly why the Yankees were so hot on getting him for a while.
Good proposal. Those two deals almost make too much sense yet it’ll never happen.
I’m not as bullish on Schwarber as you are though. I think he should be in the AL. He would be a monster in Fenway or Yankee stadium.
LOL. patino no for contreas?
I agree. Why trade a top tier catcher for 1 prospect that’s a maybe and a garbage bat catcher that’s good defensively, there’s plenty of defensive catchers out there
Patino has the stuff to be a front end starter, and I like his upside much more than Gore. Cubs need to think of the future, and young controllable arms is where you begin.
Yea, they could get alot more for Contreras than that… That’s pretty much giving him away
Who cares if Bryant extends or re-signs? Aren’t the Cubs trying to win now? He can’t leave until after 2021.
As a lifelong Cubs fan, I could care less if he leaves. Everyone bows to his royal stat line and his awards as if that defines some great player worthy of 300M. ROY and MVP? Yep, but probably the weakest ROY and MVP ever voted for. .900 OPS? Yep, but he pulls just enough singles to right and draws enough walks to keep that stat. Unfortunately, he rarely gets it done when it matters with the exception of a few times last season. And I have NO idea of why everyone says he is some great baserunner, because he isn’t. NOBODY made more mistakes on the bases last year than he did. He doesn’t even steal bases with all those singles and walks he gets. Now Baez is a great baserunner and should never be traded.
Pulls to left…
Weakest ROY? Please go look up Bob Hamlin.
@Iam- 24 homers in only 312 abs, and a .987 OPS in 1994, pretty good! Thanks for the post though, it took me on a journey checking out all the previous ROY. There have been some worse than KB. Recently, I would say Wil Myers was less deserving. Bryant did strike out 35% of the time his rookie year though.
The Cubs better make some kind of move. Kris Bryant should be the guy to go, not only because he didn’t even make a counteroffer when the Cubs approached him with a 200 million dollar extension, but because he’ll bring the most back, he’s making a ton of money through arbitration and he can be replaced (at least defensively replaced).
Trading Contreras would be a HUGE mistake.
I voted YES and Kris Bryant if the latter ever has his arbitration grievance settled before he can become a free agent in one or two years (lol). It seems that the delayed Bryant resolution is contributing to the bad karma that has been lingering in the aftermath of the front office decision to be so blatant regarding his MLB service time in the first place.
As a Cub fan I also wouldn’t be terribly disappointed if the front office decides to go with basically the same cast of characters they have on their projected opening day roster as I post. There’s a part of me that would like to see what new manager David Ross might accomplish with the same core that Joe Maddon had the past few years. I was never a big Maddon fan and felt that he failed to put his talent in their best position to succeed with his incessant over-managing. I think a more traditional approach to batting order construction and role assignments would have benefited the Cubs. I would like to see what a former catcher like Ross could do with a still very talented roster of position players who are mostly still in their prime years along with how he handles a talented starting rotation and a bullpen that needs some some tweaking but will have closer Greg Kimbrel available from the get-go.
You are NOT a Cub fan. Worry about your 8 year ‘rebuild’ of your Chisox.
He is a Cub fan, and a Sox fan
Bryant will not be hitting FA a year early. likely he will just be paid out a cash settlement.
Cubs will Win the NL Central in 2020
or…….heads will roll !
First…Bryant is a goner……he did not sign an extension……he filed a grievance……and his agent, Scott Boras, wants to make $400 million in that next Bryant contract…..for that
to happen, Bryant has to be on his game in 2020…….Bryant has to be at MVP level……no injuries……just leave Chicago as a Winner…..if he is still with the Cubs…..
and if Theo does trade Bryant before the season starts, he wants 3-4 top notch Prospects back…..mostly starting pitching…..
who knows, Bryant is MVP by July, Cubs are not at the top and Bryant trade value increases with a playoff team demanding for third base or left field help in the stretch…….
I think best for all is Bryant to move on……his heart is not with the Cubs according to his agent demands……
Quintana will be traded……that is a given……
Contreras, maybe not, but Caratini can bring back value also…..whoever goes, Cubs still have a quality catcher behind the plate….
Hendricks is very good, when he is healthy…….and he is cheap as in his contract…..but he could have a good return if a desperate offer came along. that could not be refused by Theo…..
Darvish will want $$$$ to waive his nontrade clause…..so he wants an extension…..and if Darvish is what he was in the second half of 2019, he will be asked for……his contract looks good now !
Rizzo is staying…..
Baez is staying……for now……but if he wants $250 million or more…he is gone !
Schwarber is a Wild Card…..any team fans will love this guy in their lineup……and he can hit at playoff time……he is like Babe Ruth……
Heyward……there is always a GM Sucker born everyday……his bat died last August again…..his glove will save you 6-8 games in RF……..he will stay as a Cub unless Pigs start to fly…….
Chatwood could be a nice piece at #5 or late middle relief for a team……but trade value is low……so he has greater value with the Cubs for now…….
Rumors has Bryant ending up in Atlanta…….But I think Bryant will end up in Philadelphia or Minnesota………both teams are desperate to win in 2020……and Theo is just waiting for the Arbitration ruling (which the Cubs should win) and the Donaldson signing to hear the phone ring from desperate GM’s who lost out on Donaldson……
if Maddon won another World Series …..we would not have this talk of trading players……but having other top notch free agent players joining the Cubs………
David Ross will either right this ship to a World Series…….or show off his dance moves in the Cubs dugout in 2020.
I expect the Cubs to win 92 games in 2020 and the division.
I stopped reading 2 sentences in … long story short, the Cubs suck
sorry for your poor reading / comprehension skills you obtained,
Did you ever think about returning to Night School ?
is that where you fell in love with ellipses?
Sticks and stones may break my bones but ……. the cubs suck
reply back when you are over 21……and not being a 5 yr old !
Dump Bryant, sign Castellanos and they could win 95.
You should change your name to shîtty gm.
Sir, this is a Smash Mouth concert
About 50, 60 lines to long
Lolz. Cubs going to trade half their roster and win the division ?? That would be an impressive feat no doubt. And the babe Ruth comparison WOW can’t believe you actually wrote and sent that.
The reason y’all are talking so much trade is bc the window has shut and your run is over. Y’all know it but can’t accept it.
Only bc Bryant plays 3rd in an offseason where everyone and their mom wants a 3rd basemen will y’all get anything for him. And what u get it will still make u furious bc of how light it’s going to be. Every other GM knows u have to trade him and we live in an era where teams are holding their young controllable talent. Padres/dodgers/reds all have enough talent to acquire lindor yet he is still an indian so expect maybe a top 10 organizational pitcher with up side as centerpiece. Prob some guy u have to look up bc u never heard of him
The cubs need to keep all of their great players and prospects. They can wake up in 2115 and buy another WS.
Go Cubs Go
Teams are so extreme when it comes to philosophy. How many titles have The Oakland A’s, Dodgers GM Friedman won? Those teams with extreme agendas never win titles. I could see the A’s being extreme with prospects. They’re small market. The Dodgers? Teams are either extreme analytics or extreme old school. Teams also are extreme cheap or extreme spenders. It’s ok to give up prospects, but so many teams act like giving up a bottom tier prospect is the end of the world… Also ok to give up high end prospects given the right deals.
Prospect-6 years of control, 3 years essentially free.
Star-$30-$40 million per year-$300-$400 million total guarantee
Would you trade 3-4 premium of the first for 1 of the second? Nobody would, nobody is.
The best SS in the game is available. The second best PLAYER in the entire GAME is available. Nobody is willing to pay those crazy prices. Why would they for Bryant?
curious who you believe is the “second best player in the entire game”
Probably Mookie Betts
That would be Mookie Betts. Maybe he is 3rd now.
People need to face what the issue is! They need to cut salary to get under the luxury tax threshold. Regardless of what that does to the talent level on the team. Getting rid of Bryant is an easy out! I don’t think his value is all that high but Cubs will take back the best deal they can get for a player that will likely never resign with them. Theo put the team in this position. In my opinion he doesn’t deserve to survive in the Cubs organization. He will serve out his contract and be non renewed just like Maddie. He sealed his on fate with his actions!
Dodgers looking to make a splash and they have MLB ready talent to trade. Once Bryant’s hearing is finished we will know alot more
Dodgers will take y’all to the cleaners. Better find a different trade partner
What I see is a disorganized FO with disgruntled players. This Bryant situation could have HUGE ramifications all across baseball. He’s rocking the boat, and most bosses don’t like employees that do that. I can see him going to the Braves if the Twins sign Donaldson. They have the farm system that can get a deal done, of course don’t count the “desperate” Dodgers out either.
the courts are courts. he’ll just get a payout like most disgruntled players tend to.
It’s not a court case, it’s arbitration. And, if I’m not mistaken, the panel has to rule in favor of either Bryant or the Cubs, and cannot come up with some alternative award/ruling like a cash payment.
Contreras, Schwarber and Q don’t have high enough salaries to dump,in order to significantly effect salary restrictions. No team is trading for Heyward. Darvish has a no trade contract. Rizzo and Baez are going nowhere. Kimbrel and Bryant are high salaried players with value. Kimbrel’s value is at an all time low. They lost the rest of their bullpen to free agency. That logically leaves Bryant as the trade centerpiece.
It’s a crime for the Cubs to operate like a small market team. No reason why Wrigley Field over costs should effect payroll. They are making money hand over fist and will also have a lucrative television deal to add additional money to their coffers. Ricketts family should NOT cry poor mouth. They have a loyal fan base that deserves better. I have been going to games at Wrigley Field for over 50 years and will continue to do so. However, there’s another team in town that’s on the rise. While I’d prefer to go to Wrigley Field and see the Cubs, I believe that the White Sox will offer a better bang for my buck during the next 5 years. Tickets are cheaper and not difficult to get. If enough fans consider the alternative, the Cubs will have to make winning a priority. Pipe dream, I know!
Poll Question of the Day……Which Team that lost out on Donaldson, will trade for Kris Bryant ?
The Hayward contract is bad but he’s still an average starter. Why haven’t they tried to pay that down and trade him to cut payroll?
Even if they had to keep half the money, that’s like $10M they could use to improve their team today.
Who’ll take on that contract?
I honestly wouldn’t want to pay Heyward 10M. I always thought his defense was solid, but a bit overrated at the least important position. It really shows when they move him to CF that he isn’t that special. The defensive talent in RF around the league hasn’t been great in a long time, so Heyward stood out. He got a bookcase full of shiny GG’s, which shot up his WAR (a stat that I personally hate) which got him a huge contract. I would rather have a guy like Castellanos, which they can’t afford because of….Heyward.
About 60% of fans at a Wrigley game are out of towners,
Cubs ranked 7th in all of sports for ticket demands (#1 in MLB)
Cubs have the highest attendance on the road of all MLB team.
Funny, because if you travel abroad a lot you never see Cubs caps. About 80% Yankees, some Dodgers, some Red Sox and in recent years the occasional Astros and Brewers. Little else. Pretty much no Cubs, though. Don’t see much in the way of Cubs caps traveling domestically, either, come to think of it. I know this because I travel a lot and I’ve made it a habit of counting caps over the course of 1-3 weeks on a trip. So if the Cubs have this large, dispersed fanbase, they must not be wearing caps.
The Cubs are the lovable losers, and foreigners like winners. They also like the U.S. Mega-metropolises. NY and LA have cache, Chicago doesn’t.
Kinda like the Braves in the post season now? Only they’re not lovable.
Strange hobby. Do you keep your nail clippings as well
You won’t see that result in 2020 unless the team is competitive late into the season. Demand elasticity for the Cubs with respect to win % has increased a lot, especially with much higher prices.
Look for substantially lower season ticket renewal rates in 2020, and a lot more empty seats.
They have 2 years left before they start losing players to free agency. This year there WIll NOT be any payroll increase for any person not on the team. They need to be under the 1st luxury tax threshold this year. There is no help on the way in they minors. They can’t keep and pay them all( or some are untradable) listed above in the poll. An owner or a club cannot let an asset walk and not get anything in return. Also if you what till the players last year you usually get way less than the next to last year.
Trading Bryant would be a thing we would expect a small market team to do, which the Cubs aren’t, which we all should be taking to task every day. MLB should not be allowing this.
Hopefully Cubs come in last place.
Nothing…and I mean NOTHING, would make my 2020 better!
And yet…they and their fans both suck…
Tots jelly! Cubs rule.
Cubs fans win one World Series & you’d think they had a dynasty, they lost starting pitching & will lose Bryant, stick a fork in them, they are done
Haha!
Theo should just blow it up. He has the resources to rebuild in two years. Ownership probably won’t let him due to concerns with alienating the fanbase. cvbsfans care more about the names on the jerseys than they do winning.
POLL: Will we ever stop talking about the Cubs trading Kris Bryant?
O Yes
O No
Yes? when he’s traded
Arenado’s better, and probably cheaper in the long run.
Kris Bryant for Jesse Puljujarvi?
I think Atlanta will ultimately bite on a Kris Bryant trade. They have a surplus of high end pitching and could easily include Austin Riley if it means Bryant is manning 3rd for them. I think they are just waiting on Donaldson to decide before interest and trade talks really heat up. Bryant is the better long term player but he would cost more in prospects, obviously, than Donaldson. Atlanta would be pretty dangerous with Bryant in the middle of that lineup if he can remain healthy and regain his 40-50 HR form, which should happen.
50 HR? what lol
Braves will be happy to trade for Bryant. Best lower the expected return quite substantially though or u are surely going to be disappointed. Pull up their top 30 prospects and find the first pitcher u never heard of and start there.
What planet are you living on? Epstein will either get a prospect haul or he just won’t trade him.
My guess is Kris Bryant to the Braves
That is my first guess as well. Other than the Marlins, it wouldn’t surprise me if any NL East team gets him. Just waiting to see where Donaldson lands and for Bryant’s grievance to be resolved. I just hope that they don’t ask for all prospects and actually get someone that can help the club this year. Fried, Thor, Robles, Nimmo, are players I wouldn’t mind seeing wearing blue.
It comes down to the return. If they get a good offer on Bryant, Rizzo or Schwarber then that is who is going. Rizzo probably pulls in the best value at this point and then move Schwarber to 1st.
No. It comes down to how they can get below the luxury tax threshold and get the best return. This is why Bryant and possibly Quintana make the most sense to trade. That is around $30 million in salary for 2020.
its really not that simple. if the Cubs cant get a good return for Bryant, theyll look at other options. they have about a dozen tradable players for sny number of reasons for each.
You have missed the point of the entire Cubs offseason. I’m not saying they would trade Bryant for a bag of peanuts. He is their most expensive asset. You don’t get under the tax trading Schwarber, Contreras, etc. And I don’t think they want to trade 3 or more pieces of the core. This isn’t about being a better team this year. It’s about getting some cheap controllable assets for the future. You must get some young controllable pitching that they have failed to develop. This is why Bryant and possible Quintana make the most sense to trade. $$$$.
Why would anybody trade anything of value for expensive, injury probe 1B?
Assuming you folks are right then they are in the same problem the Red Sox are. Too many large market teams have either spent their free money; Yankees and Phillies for example, or are trying to get under the luxury tax. The Cleveland/Texas deal may be foreshadowing what these deals will be if they happen.
Except the Cleveland /Texas trade was for a soon to be 34 yr old pitcher coming off surgery owed almost 20 mil a year signed through 2020 with a option in 2021… So not really going to be foreshadowing any other deal unless it involves a 34 yr old coming off of surgery
The point is the same. An expensive asset that has diminished value. No matter what the upside it is short and expensive.
When you take this into account
Who has the need for Betts, Bryant, etc….. that may put them over the top?
Who is under the luxury tax that may be able to extend them?
Who is going to overpay to get them for the risk to losing them and time left on their contracts?
The Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs and Phillies are all out of the equation. That is 4 of the top 6 spending teams gone from the equation.
Trade Mr April. Bryant, be it conditioning or what have you, seems to wear down every second half right when the games really matter.
Segura, Bohm, Medina, Romero for Bryant and Steele? Phillies giving up too much?
cubs can do better
The Phillies have nothing to trade for an elite young player like Bryant. Sorry, but your front office decided to spend money before establishing a core of young talent. The Phillies might get stuck with aging players, on a high priced roster that can’t win.
I don’t foresee that occurring again but appreciate your viewpoint. I also believe you have incorrectly assessed Bryant
no thanks. not giving up Segura and Bohm for only 2 years of Bryant.
I’m surprised that John Lesters name isn’t being brought up as a trade candidate. Not a lot of years left on his contract, quality lefties are in demand, seems like a team like the Dodgers would be all over him. Just my opinion
If he is any good this year, they’ll keep him if in contention, or trade him if they’re out of it in late July. If he is meh or terrible, he won’t have much value, and they might let him eat innings or maybe put him in the pen.
Kris Bryant
Jose Quintana
For
Alec Bohm
Bryson Stott
Adonis Medina
Mauricio Llovera
Cole Irvin
I feel like philly has to send $ back in any deal. Arrieta or Segura being prime candidates.
Maybe Robertson or, dare I say it, Odubel Herrera
man, im not a Cubs fan, but i really hope they win the world series this year or get darn close just to shut everyone up about their monetary situation. i wasnt a fan of the Cubs myself not too long ago, but they get soo much trash for the payroll they have. again, I’d like to know, why are the Cubs the only team that “prints money?” why wouldn’t they want to duck the luxury tax when even the Red Sox seem to want to? why would they want to spend more money when their contracts end up like Jason Heyward and Daniel Descalso?
I think the reason they get the flack is they had so much young talent and so much money to spend not all that long ago. That flexibility is gone. They signed those contracts that now have them looking to shed payroll during what was supposed to be their “dynasty”. After falling short of the playoffs last year the idea of subtracting has got to be hard to swallow
They don’t have any stars
lol
Trade Darvish, dump Heyward maybe with Conteras. Orioles could use some help and have the salary space. Darvish could go to Det or Bal. Catching is tough to find so packaging with Heyward would help. I’d roll the dice with Bryant until mid-season to see if an extension can be made. If not, then time to move on. Kimbrell would be next to move. This is the year they have to be smart as Hayward is aging, and Bryant is closer to FA.
Darvish has a no trade clause bud.. He isn’t going anywhere…and was cubs best pitcher the 2nd half of the yr when he got back to health..
And putting Heyward with Contreras is a waste cause you wont get anything back to dump Heywards salary …. So pump your breaks
This is completely asinine.
Look, whether or not you think trading Bryant is stupid, you need to understand that if he is truly motivated to test the free agency market, then you may as well see what you can get for him. But I want major league-ready players because it doesn’t make sense for the Cubs to go into another rebuild, albeit a smaller one. Theo only has two years left, and then he is leaving, so it only makes sense to go for it now. But they can’t move Bryant until the grievance is settled.
I’m worried Theo is going to leave the Cubs looking like the 2020 San Francisco Giants.
These guys are really good players, but they aren’t stars. Nobody is rushing to see Rizzo or Bryant play baseball. I take that back. Baez maybe- he’s exciting.
Lol
Been saying it for weeks… TRADE FOR ANDUJAR ,,, then move Bryant for some nice prospects.. Andujar isnt that far off from being a Bryant hitting wise, and bet Yankees would move him for Happ (his lefty bat and utility role would serve Yanks well)
Then ship Bryant to Phillies – Bohm, Kingery, Spencer Howard
Or maybe a team no one is talking about that has a hole at 3rd and are contenders RAYS- Liberatore, Honeywell, Diego Castillo
CF still gonna suck, but I’m sure there is CFs that could be traded for (Buxton bout over stayed his welcome in Minn, Marte for Amaya)
Happ is vastly underrated player. Cubs don’t need any position player that isn’t going to lead off and provide a decent .OBP The Cubs would be fools to trade Happ or Schwarber at least until the break if they are out of contention
I’m saying if they plan on moving Bryant , getting Andujar would be a great move to make.. And if you trade Bryant to the Phillies, getting back Kingery is your Happ replacement … Happs best value is a utility guy, which is great to have, but he doesnt have an everyday spot, and he is not a CF
As a Cubs fan I am tired of hearing about not having money. Everything was torn down to rebuild. 4 years later they are tearing it down again. Meanwhile, ticket prices are some of the highest in the league. $75-$125 for a bleacher seat??? No thanks.
Welp, if your Lord and Savior Theo Epstein hadn’t signed so many bad contracts in free agency, you wouldn’t be in this position.
Love it. No further response needed lol
There was only one bad contract. That was chatwood. And he did great in 2019. Brandon morrow was bad hut he was great before getting hurt.
The funniest thing about all these comments from Braves fans – Bryant won’t re-sign with the Cubs after 2021, he had a sub-.900 OPS in 2018, he’s “expected” to win his service time arbitration case, trade value website has him worth Wright, Inciarte and Camargo – is they are designed to suppress his value to the Cubs, but … they still want to trade for him! Lol. I got an idea. If the Cubs trade him let’s make sure the Braves are frozen out. How about that? Like they’re the only team who wants him. Hilarious.
Yea I am still laughing at the comment that had alleged Bryant was “expected” to win his grievance. And that he will never sign with the Cubs no matter what is offered as he is so pissed he wants out of Chicago. Lol. Cracking up.
I’m a Cubs fan but it’s time for the Cubs to sell. They can’t win a WS with this team. Yes, they can make the playoffs but don’t be crazy. They’re not getting past the Dodgers and Braves. They aren’t even the best in Chicago.
I don’t think Braves fans will have to worry because, and I could be wrong, Donaldson will sign there in the near future. They will have their third baseman for four years.
cvbs fans still drinking the coolaid on Heyward and Darvish I see. Good thing you guys have low standards. Makes those century long lean years more palatable.
Says the White Sox fan. Too much comedic material. Where do I start?
You can start by telling us how Jason Heyward earned his contract by giving a speech during the WS. That’s always worth a few laughs.
Trade Q. Maybe to the White Sox for a power hitter and starting pitcher. Any ideas?
Touché. Hated the trade from day 1.
I think the Cubs need to trade both Bryant and Contreras to avoid another rebuild. The farm is depleted and their roster needs to get younger. All of the current starting pitchers are in their 30’s. If you can’t resign them now is the time to trade them.
Trade Bryant to ATL for 3B Riley,CF Waters,SP Anderson or SP K.Wright..I think that’s the best package out there…
Gotta handcuff Heyward to that trade.
Actually only 3 of those players would be low balling. So add those 4 plus max fried..
Must be the 1st day weed is legal in Illinois or something… Coming from a cubs fan here… Wow
Cubs fans lack perspective. Often over value their talent til it’s too late. Kris Bryant is a good hitter clearly. We all know that however he does have his glaring holes. He has a big swing with big holes. Hes not very clutch and most of his dingers are solo shots because Cubs cant get guys who know how to get on base. Bryant injuries have shortened a few seasons but the cubs also arent helping their own cause with their lack of systematic development. All their “studs” seemingly hit a comfort zone allowing their downfall statistically. Theres a little Maddon to blame for some of those things. I’m rambling now…puff puff pass
Here’s some perspective. As I mentioned above, Bryant has a higher war than Donaldson, Arenado and Rendon over the past 4 years. (Fangraphs) Rookie of the Year and MVP awards are not fliukes. Regardless of what you think of the war stat, the guy has serious value and it will take a serious package to get him. And you don’t have to be a Cub fan to acknowledge that.
Donaldson just had an OPS over .900 this year. Why would Atlanta trade 2-TOP 30 PROSPECTS, a young TOR with 3-4 years of control(Fried), Riley AND take on a bad contract for Bryant, who is basically the same player? It would be a better deal for them to give Donaldson a 5-year $200 million contract! Heck, maybe you can get them to throw in Acuna too!
They could honesty sign everyone from Bryant to Rizzo and Baez. The aren’t over anything. Joe Ricketts is just cheap. Within 2 weeks of the grievance trial being over. They’ll trade Bryant to Atlanta for 4 players. Extend Rizzo and Baez before the start of the 2020 season. Shock the baseball world and sign Kris Bryant when he becomes a free agent in 2022. After they trade him they’ll platoon 3 or 4 players there.
For the sake of cubs fans, please stop posting… You dont make any sense
I make perfect sense. TLDR for you guy, Joe Ricketts is cheap.
Cubs shouldn’t take anything less than 4 players for Bryant.
3rd highest pay roll in MLB?? Yea he’s real cheap… Try being a Rays fan that they want their pay roll to sit between 60-80 MILLION for the entire Damn roster lol,, cubs have that in 4 avg players (Q, Lester, Heyward, Chatwood)
You thinking Bryant is bringing back 4-5 top prospects is the dumbest logic ever and you dig even deeper into stupidity by thinking he will then sign back with the Cubs in 2 years lmfao.. Didn’t realize Illinois legalized crack
Nationals get 3B Kris Bryant (2 years arbitration)
Cubs get SS Carter Kieboom, RHP Jackson Rutledge and LHP Tim Cate
Sounds like more low balling. Try adding those 3 prospects plus Soto and Turner.
I got it! Bryant to the Dodgers for Lux, May, Ruiz, Gonsolin, Bellinger, Verdugo, Urias and Buehler. Oh, you might as well throw in their 1st round picks from the next 3 years too. Seriously Cubs fans? You are not getting a huge prospect haul for Bryant. You will either trade him for 1/2 to 1/3 of what people here are suggesting or you will keep him for 2 years and then he will walk. Start looking ahead to what you can use that 2nd rd. comp pick on.
cvbs fans are… yeah, special.
Lots of fans are. It embarrasses me to see the trade suggestions some of my fellow Padres fans make! I guess I am in the wrong place to expect reality or sane judgment.
Some of these cubs fans are not with us… There’s not alot of logic or reality behind some of these post, just people that don’t understand the game I guess
Good Guys, you are delusional. I’m a Cubs fan and I would never even joke about the Cubs getting a haul like that. Bryant is good but not a HOF player at this point of his career.
Only way Nats land Bryant is if Robles is in the package… Never gonna happen..
And Javia , dont group fans cause I’m not with the getting a teams entire franchise for Bryant,,, but they will get close to what they are asking for from Phillies, Braves, Twins, or any other team that feels they are Kris Bryant away from being a contender ,,, if he puts you in the tier they will be some give to get him… I’m sure it’s not gonna be the 1st deal cubs ask of a team, nor the 1st offered back… Be like buying a car a sticker price and no one does that, IF the cubs actually asked for 3 or 4 top prospects im sure they set the bar high to negotiate
Dodgers get LHP José Quintana
Cubs get RHP Tony Gonsolin
Cubs get a pitcher that can help with rotation or bullpen and lower the payroll.
Dodgers get a veteran pitcher for his rotation next season. strong bounce candidate (3.80 FIP last season)
Just wanna put out this fun stat line for people hating on Bryant
Games played
Bryant 706
Rendon 916
Homeruns
Bryant 138
Rendon 136
Slash line
Bryant .284/.385/.516
Rendon .290/.369/.490
OPS+
Bryant 136
Rendon 126
But yea, he’s horrible and not worth the prospects lol bunch of dorks
To be fair, Bryant and Rendon have been trending in opposite directions lately. Bryant’s still capable of being elite, but he’s not the player he was during the MVP season.
I wouldn’t say Bryant is trending down.. If you look at his stat line over his career (not really counting 2018) he put up solid numbers across the line every year.. The only stat that has dropped at all of significance is RBI which could be looked at as ole Joe scuffling the line up around, Bryant was the 2 hole much of last year with Rizzo and Javy getting most the RBIs
I looked at his stats and you’re right, he’s been pretty consistent. Moving Rizzo and Bryant higher in the batting order never made any sense to me, but Epstein didn’t help the situation any by ignoring the need for a leadoff hitter.
Performance is only one aspect of trade value. Unfortunately for cubs the current market plays a bigger impact. For example, a team like the padres would rather pay a fortune for Hosmer than part with any young talent in a trade. Marlins got maybe less than pennies on the dollar for yelich. Lindor is available yet no team is interested in parting w enough young talent to acquire his services. When Bryant is available- cubs won’t have the luxury of waiting like the Indians do and will take a couple players u never heard of for him.
Good news is we are recruiting new fans if u need someone to root for this coming season. Just fill out an application at becomearedsfan.com for consideration.
Wow, I better take your advise you sure sound like you know what you’re talking about lol … Padres not giving up prospects, but led the off season off by trading Urais who was a top 25 prospect and is 21 yr old …lmao swing and a miss pal
Indians arent motivated to move Lindor, he is not available unless you over pay for him, I don’t get why people don’t get that… They asked for May, Lux plus from dodgers
The World Series champs lost there MVP 3rd baseman and Atlanta cant afford to lose Donaldson if they plan on competing for a World Series. This makes Kris Bryant extremely valuable to the team that misses out on Donaldson. Once Donaldson is signed the Cubs will have leverage over one of these teams in a trade for Bryant. Bryant is not going to sign an extension so move him while he has so much value to other teams. You also have to realize that would give the Cubs money to sign Castellanos. Swapping Castellanos in the lineup for Bryant is really not that far of a drop off. So ask yourself would you rather have Bryant or Castellanos and a couple of MLB’s top 100 prospects? Unfortunately trading Bryant is the HARD right decision.
If u want top hundred prospects then u better draft well bc you aren’t getting that for Bryant. Best lower the expectation or it’s gonna be a tough year for ya friend
Haha! Bryant would fetch 2 top 100 prospects easily. Good luck to the Nats or Braves without Bryant, Donaldson, or Arenado. If they want to compete for a World Series they have no choice. Pay the price or call it a year. The Cubs have all the leverage!
I say trade everyone. A complete overhaul and build the best farm system. It worked before!! Cubs don’t have what it takes to win a World Series this year so what’s the point??? Rebuild while we have the tools to do so and dominate again in two years!
Agreed. It only took the Yankees 1.5 years to retool. Cubs don’t need a complete rebuild, but they must move at least a few premier names. It just is what it is.
Move Bryant and Contreras and get back a massive haul. Eventually bring up Amaya to catch, and at least 3 of the estimated 7 or 8 prospects they would get via trade will be very good-excellent.
Falling in love with players, and signing them to massive contracts, is a recipe for disaster in today’s baseball economic climate.
Look at the contracts of Pujols and J-Hey. Do the Cubs really want an aging Bryant, for the next 8-10 years, siphoning massive amounts of payroll flexibility to his personal checking account?
Smartest take I’ve seen!!! They could conceivably (1) trade Bryant to the Phillies for Kingery, Spencer Howard, and Francisco Morales or something like that (I’d personally love that haul!!!). (2) Trade Schwarber to the Yankees or Contreras to the Rays and receive any number of great combinations.
Getting a little crazy, they could see how desperate the Padres are to trade top prospects if someone takes the Wil Myers contract, possibly sending Jose Quintana and Zack Short to Padres for Wil Myers and maybe C.J. Abrams coming back. The Cubs have options, but they need to get creative.
The point is their current roster is massively unbalanced: power hitters galore, no table setters or speed on the base paths (except Baez), weak defense, guys that pitch to contact (not really anyone overpowering, although I am excited to see what Brailyn Marquez will do in two years at Wrigley), massive contracts to under-performing players, and their core is all hitting free agency at the same time.
Let’s be honest, if Bryant was hitting like he was in 2015 or 2016, we’re not having this conversation, he’s not worth $25-30 million a year. I actually like that Ricketts (although I hate his political leanings) is doing the right thing and making Theo operate within a budget.
KB’s 2019 were pretty on par w/ his 2016 season prior to his injury. They main difference was the lack of a true lead-off hitter.
Have the cubs been relevant enough to enjoy their demise ?? I was kinda happy to see em win that 1. Maybe Cub is a fitting name as they operate and act like children in a mans game. Or maybe they’ll change their name to the Desperate housewives of Chicago w all their drama and no action to back it up.
2019 the Big Red Machine rolled over y’all. Expect a lot more of that in 2020
Lmao a reds fan… Hasnt been above 4th place or seen a playoff game in what over a decade… Thanks for stopping in, completely forgot they were still in the MLB
Poll:
What’s the highlight for the cubs next season ?
1 getting next to nothing for Bryant
2 coming to terms you are now the 2nd best team in Chicago
The white sox will never be the best team in Chicago. they could which entire rosters with the yankees there fans still would sell out comiskey and the Cubs would still be the best team in Chicago
If Wrigley is sold out every game it still doesn’t make them the best team. The White Sox will win more games this year than the Cubs.
if Donaldson signs anywhere but the Braves, the Cubs will play hardball with the Braves…..or watch the Cubs trade Bryant to the Phillies………now that will be something !
I just think the Twins, Phillies and Dodgers will all go after Bryant with much more to offer !
At best any team that trades for him may only see him for two yrs. I don’t see a lot coming back to the Cubs maybe two prospects and a regular tops..
The phillies have zero to offer. The braves have the best players to offer. Anything less than 3 for 1 is a low ball offer.
You already said 3 for 1 from the Braves would be low balling. Unless Acuna and Soroka were 2 of the 3?
Kris Bryant for Mike Trout. No? THEN DO NOT TRADE KRIS BRYANT!
I heard Kris Bryant is a giant chicken.
The Cubs are in a tough spot. If members of the core won’t sign extensions, they are faced with the decision to sell now or wait, try to make another playoff run, and hope they choose to return in FA.
If they must get under the luxury tax threshold now, they should be focusing on dealing Heyward, Quintana, Kimbrel, or Chatwood even if it means eating money in the process. Get a lottery ticket prospect back, assume they will take a step back in 2020 and shoot for contending again in 2021. I assume Lester is unmovable even with 1 year left on his deal. Dealing Bryant, Contreras, or Baez would likely not result in a return that would improve their chances in 2020 or 2021. If one of those guys are dealt, they might be better off wholesale liquidating and starting over like the White Sox did.
let me see your lists of 25 position players better than KB. GO!
KB’s 2019 numbers were pretty on par w/ his 2016 season prior to his injury. The main difference was the lack of a true lead-off hitter.