The Mets’ trade for Edwin Diaz and Robinson Cano could hardly have gone worse in the first year. But how was the blockbuster deal viewed at the time? MLBTR’s Jeff Todd explores this huge Mets-Mariners swap in today’s video.
If cano and Diaz rebound next year and Kelenic is the next Lewis brinson I’ll laugh at everybody that clowned us. I’m Not saying I think Kelenic is the next brinson. But crowing him.. he might just be a slightly above avg player for all we know.
The Mets only have him for 3 more seasons, after this lost one.
PEDs keep you healthy, not help you play. I hope Cano goes off for 35+ homers whenever the next season is, as he might very well do.
I mean, use your head, all this time off HELPS older players recover even more than PEDs do, Cano and his ilk like Miggy Cabrera are most likely going to go all the way off in the next season. Pujols might surprise people too.
Yeah??? Nelson Cruz is older and used PED too… special talents like Cruz cano Ces (I think Ces could hit well even after all that time off bc of his talent. Ik he isn’t as old as the other too) could hit well at the age of 38
I mean if you ignore last year, hes been really solid. I don’t see why a rebound season isn’t possible. Nelson Cruz is still crushing it at 39. If Cano hits 20+ homers with a .260-.275 BA .340-350 OBP with okay defense for 2 out of the 3 years hes got left thatd be good.
Metsfan22, year but at least you can hide Pujols and Miggy at DH. You can’t do that with Cano outside of interleague play. His bat won’t offset his glove and it isn’t good enough to push Alonso off first base.
I’m laying odds Cabby tanks as bad (or worse) than he did last year. Saying normal late 30’s ballplayers increase production is just nonsense. Every guy is simply not David ortiz, nor nelson Cruz.
A’sfaninLondonUK, true but keep in mind Otani played barely over 100 games in his first two MLB seasons and even when healthy pitches every 5th game. In fact over the last 3 years Pujols has had almost 200 more at bats as a DH than as a first baseman.
Agreed but the Angels “plan” is (or was) to play a 6 man rotation and have Ohtani available as DH the rest of the time so maybe 120 games which nails Pujols to 1B. Sure it is fitness permitting but the same way as it would be the Yankee “plan” that fitness permitting Stanton & Judge play 140 games with the occasional DH/PH or day off.
Personally – A’s fan twist – it is brilliant the Angels had a problem (Pujols) & managed to make it a bigger problem (Pujols & Ohtani) while adding an intriguing player. Personally I hope all mentioned play at least 140 games this year including Judge & Stanton – I’d rather watch the better players play, although it might be a pipe dream at the moment….
Actually, is Cano hits 270/350 that would suck. We have a second baseman who can hit 320/400/550 in Jeff McNeil.
Cano makes the whole team worse.
And his defense would never be adequate. He plays 2nd like an old man. And then there is Lowrie, and they let Flores walk, who had more flexibility and hit better. There is NO part of this deal that ever made sense. You don’t ditch #1 draft choices for 36 year old middle infielders with huge contracts, and a reliever. They actually played better with Panic in the line up, and he sured up the defense.
andremets, dumping those two deals helps offset the upfront cost of Cano’s contract. The upfront part isn’t the issue I have with it though. Its the backend. That backend is going to be more and more painful the longer it takes for the NL to institute the DH.
Id have made a Kelenic/Dunn for Diaz swap without question. It was an appropriate cost/return. Bruce + Swarzak’s contract for Cano? that was the tough part of the deal. Mets were competing with a number of teams interested in Diaz – and they bit on the hope that 2019 would be a WS year. Winning the WS is huge for any organization. Teams will take risks to put them over the hump and Mets were in appropriate position to accept risk of Cano depreciating after a season or two.
It was a high stakes gamble and it blew up in BVW’s face. OTOH, it leaves Seattle with a far stronger core moving forward from 2021 on when they could be ready to challenge Houston.
Evaluating trades on “Ifs” is a horrible system. Anything could happen, it doesn’t change whether or not the decision was a good one. Too many people look at the result instead of the process. If the process if good, then you can survive “bad” outcomes because you will have far more “good” outcomes. But a bad process that results in a “good” outcome is maybe worse than a bad process that results in a bad outcome because it shrouds the bad process.
This trade seems like a bad decision of process. Acquiring a closer ,a highly volatile position, and taking on a heft contract of a declining player for 2 top 100 prospects, seems like a horrible trade despite how it turns out.
4WSsince04, that deal was even more of a headscratcher after the Cano trade. They already had McNeil who showed he was worthy of more playing time. Why clutter the infield with another expensive veteran?
One bad deal after another? Does JD Davis count too? I’m thrilled the Mets spent some money. It’s not the end of the world if Lowrie didn’t work out. Plus Insurance can kick in
Agreed. Mets’ deals should never, ever be challenged, even though the Mets constantly and consistently do dumb stuff.
Yes MetsFan22, you and I together will enjoy our revenge when all of these stupid deals pan out.
Prospects that develop into MLB players is the only reliable way to build a team. Every great team starts with a core of prospects. It is not an old man’s game. Two star players can change the entire competitiveness of a team.
Prospects aren’t garbage because they are unknown. They are the raw material of a great club and the art of finding prospects, signing them, and developing them is the difference between teams like the Yankees, Dodgers, Cardinals, Boston, Tampa Bay, Washington, Atlanata, and losers like the Mets.
Do you think Mets history would be different if they drafted Reggie Jackson?
Mariners are still paying cano too. I think we only pay 20 mil. That doesn’t kill a team. And cano is going to do better next year than last. Trust me. He had hand injuries that would affect everybody all year and he hurt his hammy.
Cano if was a FA the year we got him. He could probably get 10 mil for 1 year. Ik we are overpaying him. I never said we weren’t. But we aren’t the marlins. 20 mil isn’t going to kill us.
The Mariners paid $20M total in the deal. The rest was taking on Bruce and Swarzak. The Ms got Kelenic, Dunn, Bautista, and $60M+ in net payroll savings (all rest paid out last year).
The $20 million per year is a lot. If not for Cano the Mets could have kept Wheeler. But the bigger issue is the hole he puts in the Mets lineup. If not for him McNeil could play 2B full-time and J.D. Davis could play 3B full-time. That would be a major improvement in the Mets lineup.
JD errored his way OFF 3B, which is NOT a major improvement in the lineup,
he’s an OF not a 3B. Mets were ONLY going to spend less than Wheeler wanted in $ & Years. I like Wheeler but let’s see him stay healthy.
$25 mil for 18 games, with 3 HR last year and hurt his hammy run. BUT boy can he beach press his Girlfriend in them videos. And the Yankees have him TILL 2028. What a great trade. Yes that Giancarol (don’t call me Mike) Stanton. It’s a lot easier hitting HR when you team is down by a bunch like the Marlins were but when you need Mikey he not going to hit. All a pitcher has to do to him is throw him a breaking ball and he’s done. lest see if $25 mil a year for 9 more year less or more than $20 mil for 4 year.s. Talk about YUCK. and let’s not forget ELLLLLLsBury..
Nobody argues Diaz was not worth the risk. But Cano will be turning 38 this year – the first of 4 more to go. With no DH in the NL this is an epic fail. I feel sorry for the Mets pitching staff, lots of balls on the right side will be finding holes.
DH is coming tho. And cano will probably be cut before the 5 years are up. I think they really wanted 3 good ones from him and than let Mauricio take his spot
Lol I will give you that. If the Mets win a World Series with Diaz preforming lights out and Cano winning the Series MVP, it was a good trade for the Mets.
“If the Mets win the World Series”. “If insert player here stays healthy”. “If this player over performs”. Lmao. How has banking on “ifs” every year worked out for you and the Mets? Time for a reality check.
The Mets don’t need players to “over-perform” to win…. and I’m not saying we need Diaz either. I said if we win and his is a big part of it.. it was worth it.. your comment was very ignorant
Keep holding out and let me know how that works out for you. You are so misguided and uninformed it’s sad. Take the blinders off and get educated. If your a 10 year old fanboy (judging by your posts that’s my guess) I take all this back. If not, seek help. Until then keep living in fantasy land.
Didn’t say they don’t have talent. Every team has some degree of talent. They aren’t near as good as you think they are though. Your banking on too many if’s and or’s. You clearly can’t separate your fandom from facts. Read the comments. I’m not the only one. Sounds like you need to get out of your parents basement and get some fresh air.
Yeah bc the Mets aren’t top 7 in more likely to win a championship by Vegas and others.. you’re acting like the Mets have no shot. They need just as many ifs as the next team needs. Take your hate blindfolds off please
How are the Mets going to win a World Series anytime soon? They are only a better team than the Marlins in their division. Nationals/Phillies/Braves are all superior to the Mets.
Lol good joke…. you clearly don’t watch baseball. Only superior team is the Braves and the Braves could finish behind them. The Nats are about even and the Phillies are slightly below Mets and Nats
Just looking at the teams position by position, I have to disagree. If Syndergaard was available, it might be closer with the Nats but when their #4 is almost as good as the Mets #2 then I can’t get behind them being even. And with the Mets loss of wheeler being the Phillies gain, and also their addition of Didi and the return of Mccutchen I have to put the Mets even with the Phils with the Nats a few steps ahead. That’s not even including the incalculable effects of the Mets “doing Mets things” which will likely land them in 4th in the NL East
It was an extremely stupid trade in that trading for a 1-year wonder of a closer, but getting him for “cheap” by adding a terrible contract to the deal, but they didn’t give up much, and their OF is wildly stacked with way too many options, so Kelenic was expendable. Kelenic also hasn’t hit MLB yet, so until he’s getting MVP votes, this trade has a lot left in the tank. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Cano have an elite year or two left in his tank, as well. Bautista and Dunn are total wild cards too, but being that they’re pitchers, the odds are stacked against them.
I dislike this trade because it was trading for a 1-year wonder, not because it was for a closer. I don’t think it’s as bad as many make it, at least on paper.
Cano is not a MVP type of player by any means. Kelenic could have a similar years to that or Cano. Wouldn’t that be a loss for the Mets? Cano hasn’t done nothing since going to New York. Giving up Kelenic could turn around and bite the Mets. You’d give up a young and controllable player for a guy who has just been collecting space on that roster. Mets have made some moves that I seriously questioned. Jay Bruce comes to mind amongst others. Frazier could be another question mark. And I am a Pirates fan and seen my share of horrible trades and moves. That Cole trade still burns me.
The initial trade for Bruce was fine, giving him a new 3 year deal was silly.
As for Frazier, they basically got what they paid for – two years of slightly above replacement level offense. I don’t think that one was a big win or loss.
And so he has no value. that is BS. Kelenic will get MVP votes before Cano, or Diaz ever does.
You don’t throw away possible HoF talent just because it hasn’t developed yet. the Dodgers kept Koufax on the roster foe a year when he was totally useless. That is what smart teams do. Stupid teams through prospects away because… hey they haven’t proven anything yet.
Fear the 38 year old second baseman. Anyone remember Luis Castillo? He flamed out as a Met defensively at 33 years old. Without the DH in the NL this will never be a “win” for the Mets.
I am not so sure about that. I am starting to think DH in the NL would be so much better. When the 8th hitter comes up, I flip the channel so I don’t have to see a pitcher with a bat in their hands. But I don’t see the NL going to DH in the near future. The DH is what separates the leagues. Adding a DH to the NL makes them a copy cat to the AL. There wouldn’t be any differences between the leagues if NL goes to the DH.
That doesn’t speak much for you. This has always been a stupid point. There wasn’t enough offense in baseball last year?
Don’t watch baseball then. Pitchers hitting makes them complete ball players, and keeps them honest. You don’t throw at someones head so quickly when you come to the plate. And you learn a lot about pitching by hitting. It gives a player an idea what is happening. Then there is Hampton, Grienke, and Colon…
It is just lazy, the DH. Might as well have 9 batters and 9 fielders, like in football.
joeshmoe11………..
The DH is not part of the CBA, it’s a rule (Rule 5.11). The Official Rules of Major League Baseball are completely separate from the CBA just as the JDA is.
we’re really grading this trade way too early. Diaz was bad last year but no one coulf really have expected that, and he could very well rebound. Mets offset at least part of Cano’s saleries with Bruce and Swarzak, who were mich worse in 2018. i feel like this only looks bad because everything broke bad for the Mets. Swarzak and Bruce even rebounded a bit. i dont think it will look as bad come the end of this season, and overall going forward.
I dislike the trade, but I still don’t think you can firmly call it a disaster for the Mets until Kelenic and/or Dunn have performed well in major league games.
I think the Mariners come out looking reasonably good either way because they sold high on Diaz for promising pieces and got rid of Cano, but the lasting impact of this on the Mets is still TBD (but in my view, it’s unlikely to be great)
This trade was pretty crazy to me because it seemed like a lot to pay for Diaz. The Mets took on a lot of salary from a player who had just come off a PED suspension and STILL sent them 2 top 100 prospects because at the time, Dun was also. That is one expensive relief pitcher no matter HOW elite.
All this and I haven’t even said a word about the 2019 season. I thought this trade was better for the Mets BEFORE the disastrous 2019 season of Diaz and Cano. I know a lot of Mets fans will say that they will have rebound seasons and my response to that is yes, I imagine they will. I CAN’T imagine they could be worse. Diaz himself may have cost a playoff spot with all those blown saves.
Diaz is like an alcoholic who does not admit he has a problem.
Everything he says shows he has not accepted he needs to change and he was just unlucky and just had a bad year, no he sucked on a monumental level and unless he fundamentally changes his approach the league will keep pounding him into oblivion.
MLB has caught up to him and he must admit to himself and change…
JD, good point about *this* deal being the one the Mets broke with their post-Madoff penny pinching.
You’re also one Of the few commenters who mentioned McNeil, whom the Mets could have entrusted with 2B with an equal or better defensive profile and much more longevity at 2B than Cano.
Because they had committed to adding to payroll before the 2019 season, adding Cano, signing Lowrie and extending DeGrom. Why should anyone bring up something that was already addressed over a year ago? BVW landed the role as GM with a plan that included more spending and ownership signed off on it. Not sure where the shock is since this should be common knowledge.
Aside from that, agree with the rest of your point. Keeping it positive.
From what Ive heard, Mets fans took “common knowledge” as FO speak year after year and this was finally when the egg broke, unfortunately in their face-
If they are gonna keep the payroll up at 165 mill their gonna be stacked with this many arb players still under their belt even w/ Cano so thats kinda my glass half full treatment of this trade
Keep in-mind the organization had to hire a GM. BVW gave them a proposal they liked best, which meant spending was in the cards. A team will not hire a GM who says, “we can win on a $120-mil payroll”, and then spend $40-mil more than what was promised.
Cano needed to move to 1B and that is not happening thanks to Alonso emerging. Lowrie was an awful signing too. But they also did not foresee Alonso hammering 50 bombs either.
Mets organization is always satisfied with a sub 500 season. I feel bad for the players and fans. Put a better product on the field. Ownership cares more about profits than the actual team. That’s why they suck and will continue to do so.
Not a guarantee, especially with Syndergaard going down, I’m not certain the Mets are the third best team in the division. Would I be shocked if the Mets have a good 2020 (or 2021 assuming the season is canceled)? Absolutely not. The talent is there, but you can’t guarantee anything in this tough NL East. It’s very possible the Mets don’t make the playoffs at all.
As a long time Met’s fan who grew up in NY you can’t argue the great Yankee ownership when you compare it to the Tampons and Van Lunchwagon; a true circus and clown show!
True, prospects are usually only suspects until they break out.
That said, the opportunity cost to not having either Kelenic or Dunn to trade for anyone else during that offseason or at that year’s trade deadline unnecessarily limited what else the Mets could have done.
Take it easy Frank Cashen !
Most top prospects fizzle out, that was the point.
Home grown talent is nice, but it doesn’t promise you squat.
You make trades for need. Closer was #1 on the list.
For every RA Dickey – Syndergaard , there’s a Ryan – Fregosi.
You make the trades and you live with it, you don’t dwell.
I look at both sides of this deal. Yeah, the transaction swayed Seattle’s favor. I just think the inexperience of BVG was manipulated (assumed) by DiPoto. In BVG’s case, his “win” philosophy kept the conversation to “you want Diaz, you gotta overpay to get him.” This was the first deal that DiPoto ever really had his organization benefit from. Just looked like to me the baseball version of the “Draft Day” scene where Kevin Costner’s character baited Jeff Carson of the Bengals to take 3 2nd round picks and give up his first rounder so that “he wouldn’t look like a donkey.”
And that’s what DiPoto did. He put some magic on the players he received in the deal and even though they were minor, Seattle shed salary and now have room on the roster for Kelenic, Rodriguez and Lewis in the OF in the next couple of years to bloom. He can work on the IF with Evan White (hope he pans out with contract not going to his head). P, 2B, 3B and SS are now the focus.
Go back to the Mets, it’s Alonso and maybe Gimenez. McNeal can do the job and is the captain of the team. The starting rotation will be a stop gap to who? Don’t get me wrong, that 5 is decent, but what young arms are they going to rely on? I just feel like the Mets are going to compete in the NL East but to what end. A couple years down the road and you start the rebuild then is going to put some pain on the minor league system and their coaching staffers.
the sad part is, if they dont make that trade they probably make the playoffs. With all those blown saves diaz had he single handedly cost them a shot.
VonPurpleHayes, the trade was made on December first of last year. They had pretty much every possible option available at the time they made the deal. Take your pick.
An agent trying to stockpile his former clients. Might go down as one of the worst trades of all time. Awful. Man needs to be fired before he goofs another one.
Diaz was hardly a one year wonder. He amassed 109 saves along with 300 strikeouts over three seasons, before his age 25 season. Any team needing a closer should trade two prospects for a player like that.
The albatross is Cano, but they had to take him to get Diaz. At the time of the trade, they also needed a secondbaseman as McNeil was an unknown commodity at that point with an unspectacular minor league resume.
All this talk about how bad a deal it is when the two minor leaguers are doing nothing but selling a few shirts for teams with 3,000 spectators per game. A lot more prospects turn into Mitch Haniger and Bill Pulsipher than Ken Griffey Jr. or Randy Johnson.
Prior to 2019 (when the trade was made) Kelenic was Baseball America’s prospect #68, minor league ball’s #56, and Baseball Prospectus’ #63. By comparison, the BA#68 in 2019 was Logan Gilbert of the M’s and the 2020 is Edward Cabrera of the Marlins, neither of whom are considered uber-prospects. With hindsight, Kelenic was a steal – but he was not that highly regarded at the time.
MLBTR’s article about the trade – written at the time – was lukewarm about Kelenic, asking “Is Kelenic a star in the making or one of the countless drops in the bucket of “what could have been?”
Kelenic was considered the best high school bat in the draft by all evaluators, he just hadn’t had the opportunity yet to show how it would translate in pro ball in a full season to move up the rankings. Everyone knew he could quickly move up the rankings.
I do not agree that “everyone” knew that he would move up to a top-20 prospect. Most players don’t. Just for fun – can you pick a player currently ranked 60-70 by BA who will be a top-20 next year (assuming we have a MiLB season)?
I really don’t care what prospects are going to move up. Kelenic was the top prep bag in the draft, he was bound to move up if it translated to wood bats.
Regarding the characterization of Diaz as unproven: from 2016 to 2018, there were 33 pitchers who earned 40 or more saves in aggregate. Of those 33, Diaz was second in total saves (109), third in K/9 (14.18), second in xFIP (2.55), and second in fWAR (6.3). And that is over 3 years. To suggest that he was still an unproven rookie is hard to understand, given these stats – particularly since going beyond 3 years for a closer is rarely meaningful.
The Mets gave Jared Kelenic who might be a perennial All Star. He’s the guy I wanted over Casey Mize the Tigers drafted number 1 overall. The minute he comes up and you all see what he is capable of, it will eat at you for 15 years.
As a Mariners fan, very excited to have Kelenic and Dunn on board. Spring training was abbreviated, but they were turning some heads nonetheless. Diaz was exceptional with the M’s, and only time will tell us whether or not he becomes a truly great closer for the Mets. I hope he can. But closers come and go, and Seattle was willing to take the risk that he might not… and getting some young talent for the rebuild while unloading an albatross contract? Priceless! Along with no longer being on the hook for Felix Hernandez’s contract, unloading Cano is going to help with payroll in a great way during the next couple of winters when it’s time to throw some money at FAs.
The trade was an A+ for the Mariners. An F for the Mets. The Mariners got rid of Cano’s terrible contract. Maybe he does have a bounce back year….but one worth $24 million? I don’t think so…
If a team, in this case let’s call them the Sonics to protect those involved, want desperately to get out of a horrendous contract and can find a team, let’s call them the Jets, who are not only willing to take on that albatross, but will actually give something back, let alone something potentially very good, that’s a slam dunk for the Sonics and a disaster for the Jets. Good thing the Sonics and Jets would never come together on something as ridiculous as that.
If the Mets are in contention this year it won’t be because of Cano. He’s expendable. If he plays relatively well and they find a taker in the AL then they should make the move no matter if they are in it or not..This is a franchise that needs to look at the present and the long term future for once. If they wait they will either have to eat the money when he retires/can’t play anymore due to injury or when performance is so bad they have to trade away prospects with him to get his contract off the books.
Getting rid of Cano’s contract was part of the deal, but getting rid of Cano the person was a bonus. I know someone who works for the Mariners and was around Cano a lot. A total jerk apparently. As for Diaz, sorry to see him go but “selling high” made sense in that what exactly was Diaz going to “save” in the prime of his career here in Seattle? 20-30 games for a 66-96 team? Kelenic and Dunn are on track to be major leaguers. How good only time will tell. It’s always been said that trades take a few years to judge. This one is no different.
To call the trade disastrous assumes a history that hasn’t happened yet. Kelenic and Dunn are not All Stars, Díaz is still in his prime, and Canó may have some tricks in his bag. I agree, on the basis of the 2019 season and the performance of the two players the Mets acquired, it was not a good trade, but, if there is a 2020 season, we will see how it turns out. The history has not happened yet that a lot of reactions to the trade presume has already happened.
It is interesting though that this particular trade has generated this amount of vitriol, as the Mets have made some terrible personnel decisions before, like letting Daniel Murphy and Justin Turner go, and some really disastrous trades, but the fan base for whatever reason has singled this one out. Brodie made a very good trade-in getting J. D. Davis, and he has replenished the farm system fairly quickly. Díaz has the stuff to rebound, and closers, as the 2008 Mets showed us, don’t grow on trees. I understand the disappointment and frustration about the trade, but the vitriol seems to me excessive.
Not excessive at all. Brodie made effectively one good move in Davis, and half a good move in Wilson. The Lowrie, Familia, and Díaz decisions have been catastrophic, and it was the worst single off-season for the team in at least a decade, and likely more. Neither Minaya nor Alderson were ever this bad.
In all reality, he should have been fired simply on the basis of that one offseason and its results. Murphy and Turner are effectively irrelevant. Virtually all teams passed on Murphy; he was the Nats’ third choice. Turner would not have turned into the player he is with the Mets, just as Chris Taylor and Max Muncy weren’t the players they are before LA.
Spirit79, it was a disaster before the trade occurred because the best part of the deal should have been the upfront performance of the guys they got back. The first year was a crap show and they still have 4 years of Cano at roughly 20 million per (including this season) to go. The deal will only look worse as Cano ages. Getting rid of his deal makes this a win for the Mariners right off the bat. If they get anything out of the prospects they got from the Mets it would be icing on the cake. For the Mets to emerge as winners none of the prospects they sent to Seattle can amount to anything, Diaz has to bounce back in a big way and the DH needs to come to the NL ASAP to to keep Cano’s aging legs away from playing defense.
I see you are saying, but for instance the trade between the Royals and Rays involving Wil Myers, James Shields, and Wade Davis was widely criticized among similar lines at the time. The criticism reasoned, correctly, that Shields was on the downside of his career and that Myers was a budding star. This was all true, except Myers was, though a fine player, not as big a star if he was predicted to be, and Shields managed to get the Royals to a World Series before becoming an unproductive player. Davis had been only mediocre before but became a star closer. The criticism of the trade was correct, but if you just adjust the future for both sides a bit, it doesn’t become so lopsided, maybe I am just being hopeful as a Met fan, but this sort of scenario with what I hope for. Will Kelenic be better than Wil Myers? For his sake I hope so, but as a Met fan I have seen Alex Escobar and Fernando Martinez not be the stars that they were dissipated to be, and not bring back the trade value they want would have if they have been traded earlier.
This terrible trade was forced by the Wilpons desperate financial situation. They needed to win the world series or go long into the post season so they’d be able to make enough money to keep the team. That didn’t happen and now they are forced to sell.
At no point has this trade looked good for the Mets, and it’s only looking worse and worse as time goes by. It’s especially ridiculous considering the Mets have a need for a CF and one of the better 2B in baseball already in McNeil. Brodie and his front office genuinely deserves to be skewered over this trade.
I still dont understand how fixated everyone is on cano in this deal. It was mainly a deal for Diaz and to rid themselves of I believe three wasted roster spots and salary. Think back and pause a second. Mets had no first basemen. Alonso “couldn’t field and was in line to be a dh after a trade”. Smith was terrible and overweight. McNeil had one good half of a season. No David anymore. So, they got the best relief pitcher with years of control along with cano. Cano who displayed decent skill after the suspension was thought of a possible 2b option or even 1b to fill the possible vacant spot there. Lowrie was brought in to play 3b 2b or possible 1b…..fast forward and Diaz was Diaz. Not anyone’s fault there. Alonso was amazing. Bvw should get credit for letting him play from day one. Smith was a great bench guy. Lowrie hurt, still don’t know what that was about. And cano was terrible but showed life late second half. The plan wasn’t terrible. Cano at first, mcneil or lowrie at second, Todd father at third. Nothing at all went as expected. But that shouldn’t be put squarely on bvw. Diaz could very well come back to what he was. Two prospects for Diaz isn’t absurd. Just like it wasn’t for miller or Chapman or other examples like that. The trade was mainly for Diaz with other parts being shuffled around and other needs at the time being addressed. Let’s see how the prospects end up. Let’s see what Diaz and cano do. Trade is still in the toddler stage. Let it mature and see what unfolds. Dunn doesn’t look like the next Degrom or gooden. Kel looks good so far, but as a mets fan, so did lastings and Escobar and countless other top prospects that never lived up. Let’s see what happens.
You can’t judge a trade only a year later. Come on now. For one thing Cano wasn’t fully healthy and second, the Mariners haul was primarily prospects who have yet to play an MLB game. I’d say if the Mets can make it to the NLDS it would be a win for them but Cano would have to play well for at least this year and the next two. Kelenic would have to be an above average player and Dunn would have to crack the starting rotation at least for the first few years. I think Kelenic will be an all star silver slugger and Dunn will be a starter for at least a few years and maybe go back and forth from the rotation to the pen at worst. Cano should have two additional above average seasons and I think Diaz will rebound and start getting better every year but not nearly as good as he was with Seattle. Still a top reliever
BenjiB24, yes you can. Cano was hurt? He’s old and you have him for 3 more years after this one. You can’t talk about an old player getting hurt as if that injury just fell out of the sky. When you get old you’re more susceptible to injury and that doesn’t improve as you get older.
That was an insanely stupid trade the moment they made it.
If Diaz returns to 2018 from and Mets win the WS and he was a big reason why. Then the Mets didn’t lose the trade unless Kelenic becomes a superstar.
It was an extremely stupid trade in that trading for a 1-year wonder of a closer, but getting him for “cheap” by adding a terrible contract to the deal, but they didn’t give up much, and their OF is wildly stacked with way too many options, so Kelenic was expendable. Kelenic also hasn’t hit MLB yet, so until he’s getting MVP votes, this trade has a lot left in the tank. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Cano have an elite year or two left in his tank, as well. Bautista and Dunn are total wild cards too, but being that they’re pitchers, the odds are stacked against them.
I dislike this trade because it was trading for a 1-year wonder, not because it was for a closer. I don’t think it’s as bad as many make it, at least on paper.
Cano average 3 WAR seasons his last two years with the Ms. And that’s when he was on PEDs and 33 and 34 years old.
I’d be shocked if he had an elite year left in him.
Cano is not a MVP type of player by any means. Kelenic could have a similar years to that or Cano. Wouldn’t that be a loss for the Mets? Cano hasn’t done nothing since going to New York. Giving up Kelenic could turn around and bite the Mets. You’d give up a young and controllable player for a guy who has just been collecting space on that roster. Mets have made some moves that I seriously questioned. Jay Bruce comes to mind amongst others. Frazier could be another question mark. And I am a Pirates fan and seen my share of horrible trades and moves. That Cole trade still burns me.
The initial trade for Bruce was fine, giving him a new 3 year deal was silly.
As for Frazier, they basically got what they paid for – two years of slightly above replacement level offense. I don’t think that one was a big win or loss.
“That Cole trade?” What about the Archer deal? That was a real killer for the Pirates! Ouch!
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And so he has no value. that is BS. Kelenic will get MVP votes before Cano, or Diaz ever does.
You don’t throw away possible HoF talent just because it hasn’t developed yet. the Dodgers kept Koufax on the roster foe a year when he was totally useless. That is what smart teams do. Stupid teams through prospects away because… hey they haven’t proven anything yet.
Fear the 38 year old second baseman. Anyone remember Luis Castillo? He flamed out as a Met defensively at 33 years old. Without the DH in the NL this will never be a “win” for the Mets.
DH is coming to the NL.
Even so you could a lot better at DH for a lot cheaper
I am not so sure about that. I am starting to think DH in the NL would be so much better. When the 8th hitter comes up, I flip the channel so I don’t have to see a pitcher with a bat in their hands. But I don’t see the NL going to DH in the near future. The DH is what separates the leagues. Adding a DH to the NL makes them a copy cat to the AL. There wouldn’t be any differences between the leagues if NL goes to the DH.
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That doesn’t speak much for you. This has always been a stupid point. There wasn’t enough offense in baseball last year?
Don’t watch baseball then. Pitchers hitting makes them complete ball players, and keeps them honest. You don’t throw at someones head so quickly when you come to the plate. And you learn a lot about pitching by hitting. It gives a player an idea what is happening. Then there is Hampton, Grienke, and Colon…
It is just lazy, the DH. Might as well have 9 batters and 9 fielders, like in football.
Lol. It’s not coming in the ne t 3 years, that’s for sure, so it can’t save Cano.
It’ll be part of the next CBA so likely starting in 2022
Wishful thinking The DH is not a high item of discussion for either the MLBPA or MLB..
joeshmoe11………..
The DH is not part of the CBA, it’s a rule (Rule 5.11). The Official Rules of Major League Baseball are completely separate from the CBA just as the JDA is.
A 38 year old Cano. sapped of power will be one of the worst DH’s in the league. And you’d be paying him over 10M to be bad.
we’re really grading this trade way too early. Diaz was bad last year but no one coulf really have expected that, and he could very well rebound. Mets offset at least part of Cano’s saleries with Bruce and Swarzak, who were mich worse in 2018. i feel like this only looks bad because everything broke bad for the Mets. Swarzak and Bruce even rebounded a bit. i dont think it will look as bad come the end of this season, and overall going forward.
I hope you’re right. But we could lose this trade badly if we never go far in the playoffs while Diaz sucks and Kelenic becomes superstar like lol
I dislike the trade, but I still don’t think you can firmly call it a disaster for the Mets until Kelenic and/or Dunn have performed well in major league games.
I think the Mariners come out looking reasonably good either way because they sold high on Diaz for promising pieces and got rid of Cano, but the lasting impact of this on the Mets is still TBD (but in my view, it’s unlikely to be great)
This trade was pretty crazy to me because it seemed like a lot to pay for Diaz. The Mets took on a lot of salary from a player who had just come off a PED suspension and STILL sent them 2 top 100 prospects because at the time, Dun was also. That is one expensive relief pitcher no matter HOW elite.
All this and I haven’t even said a word about the 2019 season. I thought this trade was better for the Mets BEFORE the disastrous 2019 season of Diaz and Cano. I know a lot of Mets fans will say that they will have rebound seasons and my response to that is yes, I imagine they will. I CAN’T imagine they could be worse. Diaz himself may have cost a playoff spot with all those blown saves.
EDIT: Should have said better for the Mariners
Diaz is like an alcoholic who does not admit he has a problem.
Everything he says shows he has not accepted he needs to change and he was just unlucky and just had a bad year, no he sucked on a monumental level and unless he fundamentally changes his approach the league will keep pounding him into oblivion.
MLB has caught up to him and he must admit to himself and change…
The trade was bad no doubt-
What Im surprised to see is nobody bringing up how at least the Mets have broken the “cheap” mantra they had been under for some time-
OFC thats not to say they should spend the money unwisely but its a Silver lining at least for things to come-
This is a team with a 76 mill payroll next year +arbs that will CONTROL Degroom Matz and Noah (2nd half) w/ a really good pen…
Ramos Alonso Smith Cano Rosario MCneil for the inf
Confronto Nimmo JD Davis for the OF
If they continue to spend money the future looks really bright here
JD, good point about *this* deal being the one the Mets broke with their post-Madoff penny pinching.
You’re also one Of the few commenters who mentioned McNeil, whom the Mets could have entrusted with 2B with an equal or better defensive profile and much more longevity at 2B than Cano.
Because they had committed to adding to payroll before the 2019 season, adding Cano, signing Lowrie and extending DeGrom. Why should anyone bring up something that was already addressed over a year ago? BVW landed the role as GM with a plan that included more spending and ownership signed off on it. Not sure where the shock is since this should be common knowledge.
Aside from that, agree with the rest of your point. Keeping it positive.
From what Ive heard, Mets fans took “common knowledge” as FO speak year after year and this was finally when the egg broke, unfortunately in their face-
If they are gonna keep the payroll up at 165 mill their gonna be stacked with this many arb players still under their belt even w/ Cano so thats kinda my glass half full treatment of this trade
Keep in-mind the organization had to hire a GM. BVW gave them a proposal they liked best, which meant spending was in the cards. A team will not hire a GM who says, “we can win on a $120-mil payroll”, and then spend $40-mil more than what was promised.
Cano needed to move to 1B and that is not happening thanks to Alonso emerging. Lowrie was an awful signing too. But they also did not foresee Alonso hammering 50 bombs either.
Mets organization is always satisfied with a sub 500 season. I feel bad for the players and fans. Put a better product on the field. Ownership cares more about profits than the actual team. That’s why they suck and will continue to do so.
The is for sure marlinsfanbase lol
Actually a proud yankee fan, but you know I’m right.
What you said is true. But I don’t think the team they have now is a sub 500 team.
They will make the playoffs
You say that every year
Yanks say the will win the WS every year.. don’t talk about fans saying nonsense.
At least Yankees ownership gives them a chance to win every season. You gotta give credit when credits due.
Not a guarantee, especially with Syndergaard going down, I’m not certain the Mets are the third best team in the division. Would I be shocked if the Mets have a good 2020 (or 2021 assuming the season is canceled)? Absolutely not. The talent is there, but you can’t guarantee anything in this tough NL East. It’s very possible the Mets don’t make the playoffs at all.
As a long time Met’s fan who grew up in NY you can’t argue the great Yankee ownership when you compare it to the Tampons and Van Lunchwagon; a true circus and clown show!
Ok I agree. But even with Syndergaard down the Mets still have more talent than a lot of teams.
LASTINGS MILLEDGE
FERNANDO MARTINEZ
Take it easy with minor leaguer hype.
We should know better by now.
True, prospects are usually only suspects until they break out.
That said, the opportunity cost to not having either Kelenic or Dunn to trade for anyone else during that offseason or at that year’s trade deadline unnecessarily limited what else the Mets could have done.
because because they might flop doesn’t mean we should send the good ones for nothing.
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Gooden, Degrom, Strawberry, Darling, Dykstra, Synderguard, Singleton, Otis, Ryan, Seaver, Matlack, Wheeler, Mitchel …
Everyone one of these players were prospects in the Mets system that became lynchpins to WS victories.
Every WS team depends on developed prospects at the very core of the team.
Take it easy Frank Cashen !
Most top prospects fizzle out, that was the point.
Home grown talent is nice, but it doesn’t promise you squat.
You make trades for need. Closer was #1 on the list.
For every RA Dickey – Syndergaard , there’s a Ryan – Fregosi.
You make the trades and you live with it, you don’t dwell.
I look at both sides of this deal. Yeah, the transaction swayed Seattle’s favor. I just think the inexperience of BVG was manipulated (assumed) by DiPoto. In BVG’s case, his “win” philosophy kept the conversation to “you want Diaz, you gotta overpay to get him.” This was the first deal that DiPoto ever really had his organization benefit from. Just looked like to me the baseball version of the “Draft Day” scene where Kevin Costner’s character baited Jeff Carson of the Bengals to take 3 2nd round picks and give up his first rounder so that “he wouldn’t look like a donkey.”
And that’s what DiPoto did. He put some magic on the players he received in the deal and even though they were minor, Seattle shed salary and now have room on the roster for Kelenic, Rodriguez and Lewis in the OF in the next couple of years to bloom. He can work on the IF with Evan White (hope he pans out with contract not going to his head). P, 2B, 3B and SS are now the focus.
Go back to the Mets, it’s Alonso and maybe Gimenez. McNeal can do the job and is the captain of the team. The starting rotation will be a stop gap to who? Don’t get me wrong, that 5 is decent, but what young arms are they going to rely on? I just feel like the Mets are going to compete in the NL East but to what end. A couple years down the road and you start the rebuild then is going to put some pain on the minor league system and their coaching staffers.
Whenever I get sad thinking about the Mets bad trades, I just say to myself, “At least it wasn’t as bad as the Chris Archer trade.”
Which is worse: the Mets trade or that shirt Jeff Todd was wearing?
the sad part is, if they dont make that trade they probably make the playoffs. With all those blown saves diaz had he single handedly cost them a shot.
Who’s the closer if they don’t make that trade? Mets bullpen was still awful even without Diaz.
Any closer would have been better than Diaz who with a 5.5 plus ERA gave up the most gopher balls in MLB history in the ninth inning.
It does not get any worse than that!
VonPurpleHayes, the trade was made on December first of last year. They had pretty much every possible option available at the time they made the deal. Take your pick.
A man who wears many hats.
An agent trying to stockpile his former clients. Might go down as one of the worst trades of all time. Awful. Man needs to be fired before he goofs another one.
Diaz was hardly a one year wonder. He amassed 109 saves along with 300 strikeouts over three seasons, before his age 25 season. Any team needing a closer should trade two prospects for a player like that.
The albatross is Cano, but they had to take him to get Diaz. At the time of the trade, they also needed a secondbaseman as McNeil was an unknown commodity at that point with an unspectacular minor league resume.
All this talk about how bad a deal it is when the two minor leaguers are doing nothing but selling a few shirts for teams with 3,000 spectators per game. A lot more prospects turn into Mitch Haniger and Bill Pulsipher than Ken Griffey Jr. or Randy Johnson.
Taking Cano to get Diaz, sure..
Giving up Kelenic to get Diaz? I guess it’s not the worst trade for a reliever we can think of.
Take Cano and give up Kelenic for Diaz? yikes.
The Astros gave up lesser prospect capital in exchange for Giles without the contract attached
Prior to 2019 (when the trade was made) Kelenic was Baseball America’s prospect #68, minor league ball’s #56, and Baseball Prospectus’ #63. By comparison, the BA#68 in 2019 was Logan Gilbert of the M’s and the 2020 is Edward Cabrera of the Marlins, neither of whom are considered uber-prospects. With hindsight, Kelenic was a steal – but he was not that highly regarded at the time.
MLBTR’s article about the trade – written at the time – was lukewarm about Kelenic, asking “Is Kelenic a star in the making or one of the countless drops in the bucket of “what could have been?”
Kelenic was considered the best high school bat in the draft by all evaluators, he just hadn’t had the opportunity yet to show how it would translate in pro ball in a full season to move up the rankings. Everyone knew he could quickly move up the rankings.
I do not agree that “everyone” knew that he would move up to a top-20 prospect. Most players don’t. Just for fun – can you pick a player currently ranked 60-70 by BA who will be a top-20 next year (assuming we have a MiLB season)?
I really don’t care what prospects are going to move up. Kelenic was the top prep bag in the draft, he was bound to move up if it translated to wood bats.
Regarding the characterization of Diaz as unproven: from 2016 to 2018, there were 33 pitchers who earned 40 or more saves in aggregate. Of those 33, Diaz was second in total saves (109), third in K/9 (14.18), second in xFIP (2.55), and second in fWAR (6.3). And that is over 3 years. To suggest that he was still an unproven rookie is hard to understand, given these stats – particularly since going beyond 3 years for a closer is rarely meaningful.
The Mets gave Jared Kelenic who might be a perennial All Star. He’s the guy I wanted over Casey Mize the Tigers drafted number 1 overall. The minute he comes up and you all see what he is capable of, it will eat at you for 15 years.
As a Mariners fan, very excited to have Kelenic and Dunn on board. Spring training was abbreviated, but they were turning some heads nonetheless. Diaz was exceptional with the M’s, and only time will tell us whether or not he becomes a truly great closer for the Mets. I hope he can. But closers come and go, and Seattle was willing to take the risk that he might not… and getting some young talent for the rebuild while unloading an albatross contract? Priceless! Along with no longer being on the hook for Felix Hernandez’s contract, unloading Cano is going to help with payroll in a great way during the next couple of winters when it’s time to throw some money at FAs.
The trade was an A+ for the Mariners. An F for the Mets. The Mariners got rid of Cano’s terrible contract. Maybe he does have a bounce back year….but one worth $24 million? I don’t think so…
Dipoto must have been incredulous that he found someone to take Cano…probably was laughing hysterically…
If a team, in this case let’s call them the Sonics to protect those involved, want desperately to get out of a horrendous contract and can find a team, let’s call them the Jets, who are not only willing to take on that albatross, but will actually give something back, let alone something potentially very good, that’s a slam dunk for the Sonics and a disaster for the Jets. Good thing the Sonics and Jets would never come together on something as ridiculous as that.
If the Mets are in contention this year it won’t be because of Cano. He’s expendable. If he plays relatively well and they find a taker in the AL then they should make the move no matter if they are in it or not..This is a franchise that needs to look at the present and the long term future for once. If they wait they will either have to eat the money when he retires/can’t play anymore due to injury or when performance is so bad they have to trade away prospects with him to get his contract off the books.
Getting rid of Cano’s contract was part of the deal, but getting rid of Cano the person was a bonus. I know someone who works for the Mariners and was around Cano a lot. A total jerk apparently. As for Diaz, sorry to see him go but “selling high” made sense in that what exactly was Diaz going to “save” in the prime of his career here in Seattle? 20-30 games for a 66-96 team? Kelenic and Dunn are on track to be major leaguers. How good only time will tell. It’s always been said that trades take a few years to judge. This one is no different.
To call the trade disastrous assumes a history that hasn’t happened yet. Kelenic and Dunn are not All Stars, Díaz is still in his prime, and Canó may have some tricks in his bag. I agree, on the basis of the 2019 season and the performance of the two players the Mets acquired, it was not a good trade, but, if there is a 2020 season, we will see how it turns out. The history has not happened yet that a lot of reactions to the trade presume has already happened.
It is interesting though that this particular trade has generated this amount of vitriol, as the Mets have made some terrible personnel decisions before, like letting Daniel Murphy and Justin Turner go, and some really disastrous trades, but the fan base for whatever reason has singled this one out. Brodie made a very good trade-in getting J. D. Davis, and he has replenished the farm system fairly quickly. Díaz has the stuff to rebound, and closers, as the 2008 Mets showed us, don’t grow on trees. I understand the disappointment and frustration about the trade, but the vitriol seems to me excessive.
Not excessive at all. Brodie made effectively one good move in Davis, and half a good move in Wilson. The Lowrie, Familia, and Díaz decisions have been catastrophic, and it was the worst single off-season for the team in at least a decade, and likely more. Neither Minaya nor Alderson were ever this bad.
In all reality, he should have been fired simply on the basis of that one offseason and its results. Murphy and Turner are effectively irrelevant. Virtually all teams passed on Murphy; he was the Nats’ third choice. Turner would not have turned into the player he is with the Mets, just as Chris Taylor and Max Muncy weren’t the players they are before LA.
The only tricks Cano has left in his bag is another drug that masks his PED use!
Cano is a cheater as much as the Astros are!
Diaz is done unless he admits to himself that the league has caught up to him and he needs to fundamentally change his delivery and approach!
kingjenrry you are spot on!
Spirit79, it was a disaster before the trade occurred because the best part of the deal should have been the upfront performance of the guys they got back. The first year was a crap show and they still have 4 years of Cano at roughly 20 million per (including this season) to go. The deal will only look worse as Cano ages. Getting rid of his deal makes this a win for the Mariners right off the bat. If they get anything out of the prospects they got from the Mets it would be icing on the cake. For the Mets to emerge as winners none of the prospects they sent to Seattle can amount to anything, Diaz has to bounce back in a big way and the DH needs to come to the NL ASAP to to keep Cano’s aging legs away from playing defense.
I see you are saying, but for instance the trade between the Royals and Rays involving Wil Myers, James Shields, and Wade Davis was widely criticized among similar lines at the time. The criticism reasoned, correctly, that Shields was on the downside of his career and that Myers was a budding star. This was all true, except Myers was, though a fine player, not as big a star if he was predicted to be, and Shields managed to get the Royals to a World Series before becoming an unproductive player. Davis had been only mediocre before but became a star closer. The criticism of the trade was correct, but if you just adjust the future for both sides a bit, it doesn’t become so lopsided, maybe I am just being hopeful as a Met fan, but this sort of scenario with what I hope for. Will Kelenic be better than Wil Myers? For his sake I hope so, but as a Met fan I have seen Alex Escobar and Fernando Martinez not be the stars that they were dissipated to be, and not bring back the trade value they want would have if they have been traded earlier.
This terrible trade was forced by the Wilpons desperate financial situation. They needed to win the world series or go long into the post season so they’d be able to make enough money to keep the team. That didn’t happen and now they are forced to sell.
At no point has this trade looked good for the Mets, and it’s only looking worse and worse as time goes by. It’s especially ridiculous considering the Mets have a need for a CF and one of the better 2B in baseball already in McNeil. Brodie and his front office genuinely deserves to be skewered over this trade.
It’s only 1 year so far… Let’s calm down a bit
One year = 25% of the duration of Diaz/Cano. That’s a lot, considering that Seattle has 6+ years of both Kelenic & Dunn.
20% of Cano
I remember seeing Diaz pitch with the Mets, his pitches had some nasty looking movements. I think he will be just fine
I still dont understand how fixated everyone is on cano in this deal. It was mainly a deal for Diaz and to rid themselves of I believe three wasted roster spots and salary. Think back and pause a second. Mets had no first basemen. Alonso “couldn’t field and was in line to be a dh after a trade”. Smith was terrible and overweight. McNeil had one good half of a season. No David anymore. So, they got the best relief pitcher with years of control along with cano. Cano who displayed decent skill after the suspension was thought of a possible 2b option or even 1b to fill the possible vacant spot there. Lowrie was brought in to play 3b 2b or possible 1b…..fast forward and Diaz was Diaz. Not anyone’s fault there. Alonso was amazing. Bvw should get credit for letting him play from day one. Smith was a great bench guy. Lowrie hurt, still don’t know what that was about. And cano was terrible but showed life late second half. The plan wasn’t terrible. Cano at first, mcneil or lowrie at second, Todd father at third. Nothing at all went as expected. But that shouldn’t be put squarely on bvw. Diaz could very well come back to what he was. Two prospects for Diaz isn’t absurd. Just like it wasn’t for miller or Chapman or other examples like that. The trade was mainly for Diaz with other parts being shuffled around and other needs at the time being addressed. Let’s see how the prospects end up. Let’s see what Diaz and cano do. Trade is still in the toddler stage. Let it mature and see what unfolds. Dunn doesn’t look like the next Degrom or gooden. Kel looks good so far, but as a mets fan, so did lastings and Escobar and countless other top prospects that never lived up. Let’s see what happens.
Everyone is fixated on Cano because his presence is the single aspect of the deal that turned the deal into a golden turd for the Mets.
You can’t judge a trade only a year later. Come on now. For one thing Cano wasn’t fully healthy and second, the Mariners haul was primarily prospects who have yet to play an MLB game. I’d say if the Mets can make it to the NLDS it would be a win for them but Cano would have to play well for at least this year and the next two. Kelenic would have to be an above average player and Dunn would have to crack the starting rotation at least for the first few years. I think Kelenic will be an all star silver slugger and Dunn will be a starter for at least a few years and maybe go back and forth from the rotation to the pen at worst. Cano should have two additional above average seasons and I think Diaz will rebound and start getting better every year but not nearly as good as he was with Seattle. Still a top reliever
BenjiB24, yes you can. Cano was hurt? He’s old and you have him for 3 more years after this one. You can’t talk about an old player getting hurt as if that injury just fell out of the sky. When you get old you’re more susceptible to injury and that doesn’t improve as you get older.
I think Diaz will be fine. Cano will be average, at best; certainly not worth 24 million $$.
The Mariners won this trade.
what’s the point of this article?
Don’t watch it or read it then. Nobody is forcing you to.