It is incredibly hard to rate farm systems right now. Those from the 2019 draft were supposed to get their first full seasons worth of experience last season, and that’s when we are able to really get a gauge on possible draft steals and quality pickups.
On the other end of the spectrum, there could have been prospects whose rankings fell due to a poor 2020 season, affecting the team’s rankings, whether it be their depth or their number of top level prospects..
Plus, there were alot of prospects that were brought up that might stick for 2021, and that might end up going back down for the 2021 season. That makes a big difference because it can add or remove alot of top talents’ prospect status,which can significantly affect a team’s farm system talent level…
I know specifically for the Braves sake, they may not have a top system anymore, but they had several guys that could have significantly improved their stock and could very well have moved inside the top 150-200 overall prospect lists..
Since I’m most educated on the Braves system, I’ll use examples from their team. Due to a mixture of Covid-19, injuries, and poor performance the Braves were forced to call upon some of their top prospects, already starting their clocks in Christian Pache, Ian Anderson, and William Contreras. Thankfully though, all three are still going to be considered prospects next season.
However, their number three prospect, Drew Waters, while he was able to participate in scrimmages and was at the satellite camp, he missed out on a vital season at AAA gaining that experience. His status as a top prospect could have significantly been impacted if he had a really good 2020 season at AAA, or vice versa.
Missing the 2020 MiL season was also huge for young and rising prospects coming off injury marred 2019 seasons..That’s the case if the prospects were already considered “older” which can negatively impact how they’re viewed as a prospect. Kyle Muller and CJ Alexander both could have really come back healthy this season, and they could have significantly improved their stock if they each had a good season..
The Braves farm system, due to several promotions and due to the previous punishments, was widely viewed as still a fairly quality top-heavy, middle of the pack system, but they received some negative reviews because they lacked some depth throughout their ranks..
If there was a 2020 season, some of the Braves prospects could have really made an impact, thus resulting in more quality depth for the Braves farm system. Yes, again, their top guys like Anderson, Pache, Waters, Contreras, Langeliers, Muller, Shuster, etc. could have even further improved their stock…However, it could have significantly improved their farm rankings if rising, promising prospects like Braden Shewmake, Michael Harris, Bryce Ball, Grissom, Backstrom, JDLC, Tarnok, Daysbel Hernandez, Vodnik, Owens, and Riley all each had a chance to have quality 2020 seasons. It would have made a big difference on the Braves number of secondary prospects, and most likely bu ped up their team rankings..
The padres probably don’t have enough pitching… lol…. let’s get them another starter.
Gore and Campusano for Shane Bieber. Who says no?
Same package but for DeGrom?
Say John, did you see Steve Adams’ absurd comment in the chat that the Darvish deal was as “embarrassing as the Tribe dumping Kluber” last winter?
What’s “embarrassing” is Steve’s assessment of the Tribe’deal, not the trade itself.
What Steve misses is that the Cleveland Indians could have just not picked up Kluber’s $17 million option, but no, they gambled they’d be able to move him for something of value. Well guess what, Steve, nobody wanted him!
The Indians were almost on the hook for that $17m! As it was, they parlayed Kluber into a a significant back end of the bullpen prospect, and used part of the savings to sign Cesar Hernandez, and banked the remainder for a mid-season acquisition that never came. For Adams to compare the Tribe’s actions, which were not only wholly justified at the time, but confirmed afterwards, is ludicrous.
I don’t mind the Tribe’s operating behavior being scrutinized by those who don’t know any better, but it is disappointing beyond belief when someone who should know better makes an asinine comparison like that one.
A lot of people are bashing the Cubs without letting the smoke clear…
The Cubs rebuilding does not fit the narrative… If they were intent on not contending they would have tendered Schwarber a contract and traded him mid-season. Teams are always looking for a bat like Schwarber around the deadline. Second, why tendered Bryant if you are just looking to slash payroll?
I’m wondering if Jed isn’t being extremely sly, seeing real potential value in certain free agents and clearing some payroll to add more quantity. Is it feasible that Hoyer sees more value in Davies and Ordorizzi at a combined 20 million than Darvish at 22? Or that he sees Brantley as a better fit at 14 million than Schwarber at 10?
I’m just going to wait before overreacting to the Cubs early season moves. Jed may be tearing down the Cubs to build it in his image, step out from behind Epsteins shadow or he could be making some cold calculated moves a la the smaller budget Rays who take one and turn it into four with the best of them.
Schwarber coming off a down year would have been hard to trade. Same could be said of Bryant, but as a plus 3B, easier for him to be moved. Also teams might look at his 2020 numbers as an aberration. If the Cubs plan on pulling the plug on 2021, look for Bryant to be dealt before Spring Training-whenever that is
If you’re trying to compete you don’t trade Darvish. He’s projected as a top 5 pitcher for 2021 and has played like one since the second half of 2019. His contract is well below his current value.
If you’re tearing it down you gauge Schwarber’s trade value, realize he has none, and then non-tender him which is exactly what happened. He’s a corner guy whose bat hasn’t been good enough to carry his bad defense like any number of similar guys out there.
Bryant is a much better gamble than Schwarber, the highs have been higher, and if he can prove he’s healthy and good will net something like the Machado return from the Dodgers.
It’s not overreacting to be critical of the Cubs moves here and now. Hoyer’s hand is being forced by the Ricketts right now which is why Theo left.
I think it’s a logical trade if they miss out on Realmuto. Desmond as insurance to Rhys who’s coming off of surgery. Can DH, PH and provide depth at 1B and corner OF. Freeland would give the Phillies a viable lefty to alot in after Eflin and in front of Spencer Howard. Trevor Story may be the most underrated superstar in baseball, playing a premium position. You use that JT money to lock up Story for 6 years through his prime. If he wants 7 or 8, he’s still be an adequate 3B or 2B at the end of that deal.
Question to Tiger’s fans:
How do we have no players in trade talks?? OR, are we done with the tear-down? Are Norris, Turnbull, Reyes, Candy, & 31 year old Cisnero the future of this organization? IMO, we’re in dire need of young prospect-positional help.. & we need to get a competent catcher..like yesterday!
Mize, Manning, and Skubal are the future top 3. Candelario, Reyes, Stewart, Greene, and Torkelson are the future offensive core. Certainly not a bad wagon to hitch your horse too.
I just find it hard to believe they’ll be in a competitive window, by the time most of these guys are in their last to final years of arbitration. Hopefully though. An extension to some of these players would certainly give me assurance that FO is serious and committed.
The pitchers will be up in 2021 and have full reign in 2022 or 2023. By that time Torkelson and Greene should be up. Candelario and Reyes will be somewhat established. They do need a catcher though; specifically a good captain/game caller.
Freeland would be great outside of Coors. I think teams should be all over him and Jon Gray. Taking Desmond back would be the kicker for the Rockies I think, considering the Phils cant give them premium prospect capital.
I am a cubs fan, and I’m not furious, not at all. I wanted them to blow it up last year. They managed to win a meh division and then got swept by the Marlins. They’ve been heading down hill pretty much since 2016. They have a lot of money on the books, pretty much no farm system and few young controllable players. Unless they want to raise the payroll to like 250m consistently, there was no way this team was going to be able to compete with the Dodgers, Braves and Padres. I understand the playoffs are a crapshoot, but get in and then pray for one of the teams that are better than you to play like crap isn’t a strategy I’m all that enthusiastic about.
Cleveland picked up Kluber’s option with the intent of trading him. They had no intention of paying him that much. Essentially they received Emmanuel Clase and a year of DeShields for nothing.
What would you guys say the Cardinals need to do this off-season? I say get Joc Pederson and get rid of Mozeilak. And resign Molina and Wainwright of course, can’t imagine the money the Cardinals would lose not resigning those 2. Anything else?
Bingo! I commented above before I saw your note. Adams was highly inappropriate with what he thought was a clever analogy. But then, nationally, any bashing of the way the Cleveland Indians operate is met with knowing nods of recognition You never face consequences for saying something stupid about the Cleveland Indians. Generally speaking, the dumber the assessment about the Tribe, the louder the applause..
Santa’s a Rangers fan?
Why won’t my messages ever go through on the live chat?
Isaacb22….Your questions/comments are submissions to the chat host.
There are at least 1000 users in a chat that is about an hour long. The reality is that the host responds to a small percentage of the submissions.
If you want to be in a chat where you are definitely answered, you can sign up for a fairly small fee of roughly $30/year bad join subscriber chats.
*and* join subscriber chats
Or stop submitting questions that make the host throw up in his mouth. Either way.
Top 3 Farm Systems now – 1. Rays, 2. Mariners, 3. Padres.
Yes or no?
I’d say the Dodgers have a better farm system than the Mariners.
Are you counting May, Lux, and Gonsolin as prospects?
DET has to be close to a top 3
Detroit could be tied with or ahead of the Padres now. Good point.
No I’m not counting those three.
Interesting. They definitely have some talent in there.
It is incredibly hard to rate farm systems right now. Those from the 2019 draft were supposed to get their first full seasons worth of experience last season, and that’s when we are able to really get a gauge on possible draft steals and quality pickups.
On the other end of the spectrum, there could have been prospects whose rankings fell due to a poor 2020 season, affecting the team’s rankings, whether it be their depth or their number of top level prospects..
Plus, there were alot of prospects that were brought up that might stick for 2021, and that might end up going back down for the 2021 season. That makes a big difference because it can add or remove alot of top talents’ prospect status,which can significantly affect a team’s farm system talent level…
I know specifically for the Braves sake, they may not have a top system anymore, but they had several guys that could have significantly improved their stock and could very well have moved inside the top 150-200 overall prospect lists..
Since I’m most educated on the Braves system, I’ll use examples from their team. Due to a mixture of Covid-19, injuries, and poor performance the Braves were forced to call upon some of their top prospects, already starting their clocks in Christian Pache, Ian Anderson, and William Contreras. Thankfully though, all three are still going to be considered prospects next season.
However, their number three prospect, Drew Waters, while he was able to participate in scrimmages and was at the satellite camp, he missed out on a vital season at AAA gaining that experience. His status as a top prospect could have significantly been impacted if he had a really good 2020 season at AAA, or vice versa.
Missing the 2020 MiL season was also huge for young and rising prospects coming off injury marred 2019 seasons..That’s the case if the prospects were already considered “older” which can negatively impact how they’re viewed as a prospect. Kyle Muller and CJ Alexander both could have really come back healthy this season, and they could have significantly improved their stock if they each had a good season..
The Braves farm system, due to several promotions and due to the previous punishments, was widely viewed as still a fairly quality top-heavy, middle of the pack system, but they received some negative reviews because they lacked some depth throughout their ranks..
If there was a 2020 season, some of the Braves prospects could have really made an impact, thus resulting in more quality depth for the Braves farm system. Yes, again, their top guys like Anderson, Pache, Waters, Contreras, Langeliers, Muller, Shuster, etc. could have even further improved their stock…However, it could have significantly improved their farm rankings if rising, promising prospects like Braden Shewmake, Michael Harris, Bryce Ball, Grissom, Backstrom, JDLC, Tarnok, Daysbel Hernandez, Vodnik, Owens, and Riley all each had a chance to have quality 2020 seasons. It would have made a big difference on the Braves number of secondary prospects, and most likely bu ped up their team rankings..
He didn’t answer any Red Sox questions…. odd.
Nobody cares about the white sox!!
The padres probably don’t have enough pitching… lol…. let’s get them another starter.
Gore and Campusano for Shane Bieber. Who says no?
Same package but for DeGrom?
Mets say no. They are looking to win now and just signed a catcher for 4 years.
Cleveland says no.
Say John, did you see Steve Adams’ absurd comment in the chat that the Darvish deal was as “embarrassing as the Tribe dumping Kluber” last winter?
What’s “embarrassing” is Steve’s assessment of the Tribe’deal, not the trade itself.
What Steve misses is that the Cleveland Indians could have just not picked up Kluber’s $17 million option, but no, they gambled they’d be able to move him for something of value. Well guess what, Steve, nobody wanted him!
The Indians were almost on the hook for that $17m! As it was, they parlayed Kluber into a a significant back end of the bullpen prospect, and used part of the savings to sign Cesar Hernandez, and banked the remainder for a mid-season acquisition that never came. For Adams to compare the Tribe’s actions, which were not only wholly justified at the time, but confirmed afterwards, is ludicrous.
I don’t mind the Tribe’s operating behavior being scrutinized by those who don’t know any better, but it is disappointing beyond belief when someone who should know better makes an asinine comparison like that one.
A lot of people are bashing the Cubs without letting the smoke clear…
The Cubs rebuilding does not fit the narrative… If they were intent on not contending they would have tendered Schwarber a contract and traded him mid-season. Teams are always looking for a bat like Schwarber around the deadline. Second, why tendered Bryant if you are just looking to slash payroll?
I’m wondering if Jed isn’t being extremely sly, seeing real potential value in certain free agents and clearing some payroll to add more quantity. Is it feasible that Hoyer sees more value in Davies and Ordorizzi at a combined 20 million than Darvish at 22? Or that he sees Brantley as a better fit at 14 million than Schwarber at 10?
I’m just going to wait before overreacting to the Cubs early season moves. Jed may be tearing down the Cubs to build it in his image, step out from behind Epsteins shadow or he could be making some cold calculated moves a la the smaller budget Rays who take one and turn it into four with the best of them.
Schwarber coming off a down year would have been hard to trade. Same could be said of Bryant, but as a plus 3B, easier for him to be moved. Also teams might look at his 2020 numbers as an aberration. If the Cubs plan on pulling the plug on 2021, look for Bryant to be dealt before Spring Training-whenever that is
If you’re trying to compete you don’t trade Darvish. He’s projected as a top 5 pitcher for 2021 and has played like one since the second half of 2019. His contract is well below his current value.
If you’re tearing it down you gauge Schwarber’s trade value, realize he has none, and then non-tender him which is exactly what happened. He’s a corner guy whose bat hasn’t been good enough to carry his bad defense like any number of similar guys out there.
Bryant is a much better gamble than Schwarber, the highs have been higher, and if he can prove he’s healthy and good will net something like the Machado return from the Dodgers.
It’s not overreacting to be critical of the Cubs moves here and now. Hoyer’s hand is being forced by the Ricketts right now which is why Theo left.
Trevor Story, Ian Desmond, Kyle Feeeland to the Phils for Jean Segura, Bryson Stott, Mickey Moniak, Enyel de los Santos & Adonis Medina. Who says no?
Phillies because they “don’t have the money.”
I think it’s a logical trade if they miss out on Realmuto. Desmond as insurance to Rhys who’s coming off of surgery. Can DH, PH and provide depth at 1B and corner OF. Freeland would give the Phillies a viable lefty to alot in after Eflin and in front of Spencer Howard. Trevor Story may be the most underrated superstar in baseball, playing a premium position. You use that JT money to lock up Story for 6 years through his prime. If he wants 7 or 8, he’s still be an adequate 3B or 2B at the end of that deal.
The Rockies.
Phillies because they dont need a high risk SP, expensive 1B, and a rental SS
The Rockies because they would want a good prospect for Story not to use him to dump salary.
Question to Tiger’s fans:
How do we have no players in trade talks?? OR, are we done with the tear-down? Are Norris, Turnbull, Reyes, Candy, & 31 year old Cisnero the future of this organization? IMO, we’re in dire need of young prospect-positional help.. & we need to get a competent catcher..like yesterday!
Mize, Manning, and Skubal are the future top 3. Candelario, Reyes, Stewart, Greene, and Torkelson are the future offensive core. Certainly not a bad wagon to hitch your horse too.
I just find it hard to believe they’ll be in a competitive window, by the time most of these guys are in their last to final years of arbitration. Hopefully though. An extension to some of these players would certainly give me assurance that FO is serious and committed.
The pitchers will be up in 2021 and have full reign in 2022 or 2023. By that time Torkelson and Greene should be up. Candelario and Reyes will be somewhat established. They do need a catcher though; specifically a good captain/game caller.
Imagine believing Musgrove gets the same return as Snell
Freeland would be great outside of Coors. I think teams should be all over him and Jon Gray. Taking Desmond back would be the kicker for the Rockies I think, considering the Phils cant give them premium prospect capital.
I am a cubs fan, and I’m not furious, not at all. I wanted them to blow it up last year. They managed to win a meh division and then got swept by the Marlins. They’ve been heading down hill pretty much since 2016. They have a lot of money on the books, pretty much no farm system and few young controllable players. Unless they want to raise the payroll to like 250m consistently, there was no way this team was going to be able to compete with the Dodgers, Braves and Padres. I understand the playoffs are a crapshoot, but get in and then pray for one of the teams that are better than you to play like crap isn’t a strategy I’m all that enthusiastic about.
Cleveland picked up Kluber’s option with the intent of trading him. They had no intention of paying him that much. Essentially they received Emmanuel Clase and a year of DeShields for nothing.
What would you guys say the Cardinals need to do this off-season? I say get Joc Pederson and get rid of Mozeilak. And resign Molina and Wainwright of course, can’t imagine the money the Cardinals would lose not resigning those 2. Anything else?
Bingo! I commented above before I saw your note. Adams was highly inappropriate with what he thought was a clever analogy. But then, nationally, any bashing of the way the Cleveland Indians operate is met with knowing nods of recognition You never face consequences for saying something stupid about the Cleveland Indians. Generally speaking, the dumber the assessment about the Tribe, the louder the applause..