Before tendering right-hander Vince Velasquez a contract for the 2021 season, the Phillies received inquires into his availability, according to the Athletic’s Matt Gelb.
There’s no denying that Velasquez has a great arm. Making that arm work for him on the pitching mound has been an up-and-down endeavor for the 28-year-old, however. The six-year veteran is set to make somewhere between $3.8MM and $4.8MM in his final season before free agency – a palatable amount for a rotation arm should the Phillies ultimately decide to move him, especially without the hindrance of a long-term financial commitment.
Whether or not Velazquez qualifies as a rotation arm is a question that the Phillies themselves have waffled on the past couple of seasons. Out of 42 total appearances the last two years, 30 have been starts – but that’s compared to 69 out of 70 from 2016 to 2018.
Inconsistency has, in fact, been the constant for Velazquez. He mixes wipe-out stuff (10.5 K/9 over the last two seasons) with a too-high walk rate (9.1 BB%) and year-to-year arsenal uncertainty. His 93-94 mph fastball more-or-less sets the tone, but deciding on a second-best offering has been somewhat of a rollercoaster.
His slider, for example, had largely been an effective, if judicious selection for him his first few years in the rotation, but as it gained traction volume-wise, hitters took it to the tune of a .407 wOBA in 2019. His changeup, meanwhile, had fallen almost out of his arsenal entirely in 2018 and 2019 before finding its way back into the mix last season, when he threw it 14.3% of the time and limited hitters to a 26.7 HardHit%. He throws a sinker, sparingly, but it’s been thumped – except in 2016 and 2020 when it registered a .298 wOBA and 243 wOBA, respectively.
All in all, Velasquez has been good for roughly 1.3 bWAR per 150 innings over his Phillies tenure – though 146 2/3 innings in 2018 mark a career high. Still, he owns a 4.33 FIP and 4.21 xFIP, as well as an exactly-league-average 100 FIP- for his career. Even that, however, doesn’t really tell the tale, as he’s alternated above-average seasons and below-average seasons by that mark since joining Philadelphia’s rotation: 94, 125, 90, 115, and 91 from 2016 to 2020.
That there’s interest in Velasquez is hardly surprising. But pinning his value to the wall is difficult. To summarize: on average, he’s an average ML arm that manifests as either 9-10% better or 15-25% worse than average.
As of right now, he figures to start the 2021 season right back in the Philly rotation behind Aaron Nola, Zack Wheeler, and Zach Eflin, right alongside rookie Spencer Howard. Rumor is there’s a new decision-maker in town, however, as well as a new pitching coach, so this is their puzzle to solve.
crumpy24
Watch him win a Cy Young with another team
VegasSDfan
With a 9% walk rate it isn’t going to happen
Angry Disgruntled Sox Fan
Maybe not Cy Young, but he still has room to find himself.
Tom
I think that ship has sailed. Velasquez might “find himself” for a season or two, but he’s very unlikely to become a good-to-dominant starter. With 6 years in the major leagues he still struggles immensely, and even if he suddenly “figures it out”, his stuff is going to deteriorate soon.
The Phillies should take the highest offer they can get for him and move on.
to4
You never know, look what Arrieta did with the Cubs, and Col with the Astros. He was not that dominant in Pittsburg. How about Glasgow with the Rays…again, he was not a dominant pitcher with the Pirates either. I guess you just never know. Pitchers are the hardest to predict in baseball.
eagles1191
In double A ball.
Rangers29
Chris Young better make it happen. Velasquez would be an elite relief arm.
RunDMC
Yeesh. Good luck with that.
Ducky Buckin Fent
Ya know, that’s something the Ray’s are just so good at. They seem able to make pretty quick decisions on their pitching prospects in regards to Starter Vs Reliever.
I watch the Yankees really balk at “giving up” on a pitching prospect & using him as a relief arm. I understand why, as starting pitchers are just so much more valuable than relievers are. But look how deep Tampa’s pens have been the last couple seasons.
The Ray’s, man.
Rangers29
The Rangers have surprised me with how well their bullpen has been the past year. We seem to be able to cultivate good pitchers now, and I really like it. Hernandez, Leclerc, Joely Rodriguez, Brett Martin, Taylor hearn, and Rafael Montero. That’s 6. The rest were aging old men like Chavez and Volquez with the occasional AAA long relief guy thrown in, I bet we could easily take guys like Jose Urena and Vince Velasquez and turn them into elite arms in the pen. That would be an amazing bullpen:
Leclerc
Hernandez
Montero
Martin
Velasquez
Urena
Rodriguez
Hearn
Oh my god…
Ducky Buckin Fent
Deep pens like that are kind of a cheat code for putting together a pitching staff. In today’s game, I can how having that many arms in your bullpen can help cover a lot of deficiencies.
zeke1717
still would be last place
ludafish
Marlins tried Urena in the pen several times and he didn’t work out.
He has the stuff so someone could make it work I’m sure, but it’s not a slam dunk like you make it seem.
lime chutley
Ducky, I agree that the Rays would turn him around. But he’s just too expensive for them. $4m seems too much of an “if”, they can find others for $2m or less to turn into gold.
By the way, long time reader, new poster. Mostly enjoy your comments. Hope the duck was good eating yesterday or the day before 🙂
Rangers29
You’ll like the group we have here. Interesting to talk to. The trolls get weeded out very quick.
lime chutley
Been reading MLBTR since you were pre-teen, Rangers29 🙂 I finally ponied up for the subscription to support this awesome site.
Hate the trolls, but i know you’re one of the good ones, have enjoyed your posts over the past year or so. And wish you best luck in your baseball career 🙂
Rangers29
Thank you.
lolzmets
Maybe ease up on the smiling faces.
lolzmets
No they don’t.
gbs42
🙁
Ducky Buckin Fent
I see Rangers29 beat me to it. But, welcome aboard. & thanks for the kind words. I see that you qualifed your statement with “mostly”.
Makes sense. I don’t get skittish – or whatever – in regards to unpopular takes. I do – however – have the tendency to double down on some rather poor ones at times. I can be a little too stubborn. Honestly, that quality has served me well for the most part. That being acknowledged, I should back off sometimes, man.
Oh.
I wouldn’t pay too much attention to a poster who has a screen name *not* about their favorite team, but an insult to a different team.
😉
juanpursuit
Why are people making it seem like Young is in charge? He’s an assistant.
User 1104686089
I think we Rangerites are just excited for some new blood haha! But yeah it is all JD for the moment.
ABCD
I’d bet he has fresh ideas and that’s why he was hired. A string of transactions have happened since he’s been hired.
YourDreamGM
I would treat him and Howard as my 6th and 7th starter. I would bring in 1 or 2 cheap starters and see who emerges.
DarkSide830
yeah, i dont really feel too good starting the season with Howard in the rotation. he’s not ready yet. if they can deal VV and still feasibly start Howard in the minors that would be optimal.
Rsox
Velazquez is a mediocre starter at best but would probably be a lights out Closer
PhanaticDuck26
Doubtful. Fastball is flat, no deception or movement, and is losing velocity. His secondary pitches are meh at best. He simply cannot fool major league hitters, and always finds himself in hitter’s counts, unfortunately for him. Was excited for the guy, really was, but he has been given a lot of chances and just shows up league-average at best.
juanpursuit
Please do your research. Velasquez has more ride on his fastball than almost anyone in baseball, per Baseball Savant. He has also shown very little to no velocity change, again per Baseball Savant. Before you say stuff on the internet, check that you know what you are talking about.
609Collectibles
VV could be a high leverage reliever playing off that power fastball. His biggest issue has been getting deep into games. He works high pitch counts and gets mashed the 2nd and 3rd time through the order. Why the Phillies havent made him a full time reliever yet is bonkers. VV authored one of the most dominant performances I’ve ever seen in April of 2016, and the Phillies desperately tried to find that magic again but they didnt.
lime chutley
6og, was at that game in 2016. Fantastic performance by VV! So sad he never put it together after that, us Phillies fans had so much hope after that in a period of little hope.
Completely agree with you on using him in the bullpen, but I think he needs to readjust his head that he’s not a starter. Then he will be a great bullpen piece for someone.
southpaw32
that 16ks day game was pure dominance was at that game also. i saw several of his starts in person. he gets unnerved by umps not giving him high k zone or edges. So his deep counts lead to his demise. great arm still and good athlete. He is worth keeping in my opinion. Hasn’t had a solid stable pitching coach.
southpaw32
that 16ks day game was pure dominance was at that game also. i saw several of his starts in person. he gets unnerved by umps not giving him high k zone or edges. So his deep counts lead to his demise. great arm still and good athlete. He is worth keeping in my opinion. Hasn’t had a solid stable pitching coach his whole time here.
DarkSide830
the Padres game might be the best Phillies pitching performance in some time, but he’s not come anywhere close to touching that since
Cap & Crunch
I know its baffling to some Phillie fans that VV and Pivetta had/have trade value but its a valuable lesson in “The grass isnt that much greener on the other side” in the arms race these days
A fresh start could probably do both wonders…DD thru the door just in time
lolzmets
The phrase is “The grass is always greener on the other side”.
FredMcGriff for the HOF
Cap n crunch. Pivetta was traded Aug 21 to the Red Sox.
JP8
Gary Sanchez for VV might be a decent swap. The GMs can figure out what else needs to balance out the trade.
VonPurpleHayes
Lol nah
JP8
Compelling
VonPurpleHayes
I mean it’s a fair trade with two rebound projects, but hard pass on Sanchez to the Phillies IMO.
lime chutley
Von, what if Sanchez was the back up to JTR? Assuming the NL gets DH of course. Otherwise, I wouldn’t do it.
VonPurpleHayes
@lime chutley Andrew Knapp is a fantastic backup. Phillies have no need for Sanchez unless he’s starting. Keep in mind there’s still a significant chance the Philes don’t land Relamuto. I just think Sanchez is a power bat who benefitted from Yankee Stadium. He’s not a good catcher.
braves25
I feel like the Yankees would say no to this.
ctguy
The Yankees should definitely say no. A pitcher that walks that many is not what the Yankees need.
VonPurpleHayes
I’d still like to see VV as a reliever for a full season. Dude has great stuff, but can’t get out of his own head. I think he turns it around soon, but likely for another team. He just can’t get it going in Philly.
RunDMC
Sounds like Foltynewicz, with stuff that hasn’t deteriorated yet.
lime chutley
100% agree with you Von. Think he could be a great bullpen piece, once he gets his head used to not being a starter. Sadly, I think it will take a change of scenery as you mention 🙁
DarkSide830
they needed to let him work on his craft in the minors im 2019 but instead brought him back up. i dont think being a reliever is out of the question, but ive seen very little over the past few years to really think it would work.
BlueJaysMania
Reminds me of a Brandon Morrow type pitcher. Nasty stuff but can’t put it together consistently enough as a starter. A relief role might do him some good.
homeunderdog
to the giants for a AA prospect!
aussiegiants53
I’d be here for it
99 Captain Judge
Just keep this pitcher as far away from the Yankees as possible.
SalaryCapMyth
So trade him to San Diego? Think that’s the furthest he can be from the Yankees while still pitching in major league baseball. =D
kreckert
Just move him already. He’s got a truck load of potential but he hasn’t realized it in Philly and after all this time he’s not going to. Getting a half decent prospect for him won’t be any less of a crap shoot than trying to turn him into a functioning starter has been.
♪
The phrase ‘up and down’ is overused in sports.. Velasquez has mostly struggled.
HalosHeavenJJ
A bad year followed by a good year pattern. He’s due for a good one.
With Callaway as our pitching coach I’d ask his advice and move accordingly.
FutureMiLBWife
I don’t know why but I just feel he’ll put it all together at some point in his career, when that’ll be is another question.
jkoko
Bye!
mikemcsaudi
Velasquez is a thrower, not a pitcher. Has the stuff to be Nolan Ryan. Unfortunately he has the pitching brain of an infant. Trade him if you can. He is what he is.
Brixton
Vince Velasquez looked crazy good when he threw 95-97 as a starter. He doesn’t really do that anymore. He mixed his pitches a lot better the last 2 years. Hes still not good, but ur take is outdated
rdiddy75
Velasquez for Daniel Norris? I have been suggesting that trade for 2 years.
Mrtwotone
That’s actually a pretty good idea brother
rdiddy75
Thank you so much. I believe both need a severe change of scenery
BobSacamano
It sounds like such a lateral move. They’re both FA in 2022. Why not Norris for like Nava or VV for Cisnero? I get the whole change of scenery thing. But, it seems like Norris has somewhat figured it out and warrants a little better return than VV. JMO I don’t watch the Phillies
stymeedone
Tigers are not looking to trade a $1MM power reliever for a $4MM “possible” power reliever with less years of control.
rdiddy75
They both are free agents after next year. At this point why not? If it doesn’t work out for either team they both can move on from Velasquez and Norris. If Velasquez was in the bullpen for the Tigers and pitched well the Tigers might get a decent Prospect for him at the deadline. I think Norris would at this point worth a shot as a reliever for the Phillies. We all know they need to get all the bullpen help they can get.
BobSacamano
Norris is working out for DET though
GP John
Houston might be a good spot for him, they seem to have a way with pitchers and may find a way with him. They can definitely use some pitching. Yankees on the other hand also have a definite need but unfortunately don’t have that special touch with their pitchers.
bravesfan
I’d want him gone if I were a Phillies fan. He’s frustrating to watch cause he shows moment of being good and then crushes your heart. 1 year before FA, get some chips while you can.
BobSacamano
IMO There’s so many similarities between VV and Matt Boyd. I’m not a qualified scout/coach by any means! But, don’t these two look like bullpen arms??
VonPurpleHayes
Also of note, VV had a tremendous spring training in 2020. He looked like a star, but when the season started he reverted back to his old mistakes. I think proper coaching fixes this guy.
DadsInDaniaBeach
Von, the thing that would get me hollering at the screen, was he was at 80 pitches thru 4 innings..that would make me nuts..
However, he is one heII of an athlete….made some crazy plays off the mound (throwing with his glove hand) and made two really good plays from left field…I was at the game in Miami when he hit that home run…I also think his issues reside between the ears..
Ed Charles
Simply put, I think this reporting is pure b.s. Guy simply isnt a good pitcher
Backup Catcher to the Backup Catcher
Having five different pitching coaches in five years doesn’t help any young pitcher. And at 28, VV still qualifies as being young. Plus, VV wouldn’t be the first starting pitcher with stuff to transform to the bullpen and excel.
Agree with a previous poster. Before cutting ties, put VV in the bullpen for an entire season and, for once and for all, determine what you have. Besides, last year, the Phils bullpen was the second worst in baseball history, so the bar for success in that area is set pretty low. Not saying VV is closer material, but him firing bullets for a single inning in the 6th, 7th or 8th inning seems like a prudent plan.
VonPurpleHayes
Exactly. I think part of the recent struggles with the Phillies has to be due to lack of consistency. Different coaches. Different catchers. Players need to settle into their roles. It’s been a rotating carousel and I think that explains some of the late-season collapses. SOME, not all.
DannyQ3913
Please trade him, I’m done with the VV experiment.
DarkSide830
oh gosh please. this guy is just like Pivetta – the “stuff” is a complete myth
DarkSide830
VV used to be a SS in college. i think he has a better shot to be a defense-first SS at this point thenna productive pitcher on a contending team.
flabbit
Angels
Krampus
Yes, please go. He’s more frustrating than waiting for Ben Simmons to develop a shot. He gets gassed and loses composure quickly. Pivetta went, now it’s his turn.
Phillies2017
I’d use him in the pen unless you can get a good offer for him.
Philliesfan4life
A trade to the rays would be written all over this, Rays are a perfect team to get VV back on track or Houston.