The Phillies have acquired right-hander Sam Coonrod from the Giants in exchange for pitching prospect Carson Ragsdale, according to ESPN.com’s Kiley McDaniel and Jeff Passan (Twitter link).
Originally a fifth-round pick in the 2014 draft, Coonrod debuted in the big leagues by posting a 3.58 ERA over 27 2/3 innings for the Giants in 2019, though advanced metrics weren’t impressed by his work. That fortune turned in 2020, as while Coonrod’s advanced numbers improved, his ERA ballooned to 9.82 in 14 2/3 frames. Overall, Coonrod has a 5.74 ERA, 18.9 K%, 7 K-BB%, and 5.05 SIERA over his brief Major League career.
Coonrod missed much of the 2018 season due to Tommy John surgery but he returned from that long rehab with plenty of heat on his fastball, averaging 97.1 mph in the bigs. He was a regular starting pitcher in the minors prior to his surgery, but Coonrod could best be positioned to remain a relief pitcher for the foreseeable future.
While he may have been expendable for the Giants, the Phillies will surely take a live arm as they try to rebuild a bullpen that posted dreadful numbers in 2020. Newly-hired Phils pitching coach Caleb Cotham and bullpen coach Jim Gott will now be tasked with seeing if they can turn Coonrod’s velocity and excellent curveball spin into consistent results for the 28-year-old.
Ragsdale was Philadelphia’s fourth-round selection in the 2020 draft, so he has yet to begin his pro career. A product of the University Of South Florida, Ragsdale’s college career was interrupted by Tommy John surgery but he still posted a 3.75 ERA and a very impressive 33.6 K% over 50 1/3 NCAA innings, albeit with some control problems. MLB Pipeline ranked him as the 30th-best prospect in the Phillies’ farm system, citing his promising fastball and curve but also noting that there is still a lot of uncertainty over Ragsdale’s potential as a starter due to the lack of games in the abbreviated 2020 NCAA season.
seems a little pricy, but whatever. optionable and I wasnt too high on Ragsdale anyway.
Coonrod had a great year in 2019. This is a good trade for the Phillies to address the problem in the bullpen. They are going in the right direction with Coonrod, Alvarado, but they to continue to add bullpen arms.
It’s nothing flashy,but I like that Dombrowski seems to be prioritizing high velocity.Thats definitely something the Phillies lacked under MacPhail/Klentak.
Why would the Giants trade this guy? Wasn’t he an outspoken critic of the kneeling last year. Makes me wonder. The dude has great stuff imo
that’s probably very low on the list of reasons for this move.
After looking at ragsdales numbers and age i can see why they did. Maybe a good flip on the Giants part.
I know he got kicked a round a little last year but watching the dude throw he has a live fastball. I could be wrong.
I am going to assume it was a performance-related move, but I am sure that he ruffled some feathers.
I’m thinking he did ruffle some feathers, especially in San Francisco lol
I know quite a few giants fans who wanted him demoted, and while a lot of that was his performance, I don’t think anyone here is sad to see him gone for political reasons either.
I am. I’ve been a giants fan all my life I spent 10 years in the Marines and come from a family of current and former law enforcement. I was glad some one in MLB was finally making it a point that there are those of us that repeat the flag respect police and don’t cave to terrorist in the BLM movement hijacking every aspect of our lives, I will miss Sam
Probably had something to do with it but SF get a young project out of it. Would’ve made that deal regardless of how they feel about the National Anthem.
I agree
because hes just a terrible pitcher
Control issues causing him to get behind in counts, resulting in everybody watching the back end of the baseball as it leaves the park.
You may have answered your own question.
Could be a roster space issue. The Giants have added John Brebbia, Matt Wisler, Dominic Leone, Jay Jackson, and Silvino Bracho to the bullpen mix in spring training
Well if he was a critic of social justice, Phillies made another huge mistake getting the jerk.
@fffbbb In Philly its called building a brand lol
fffbbb I don’t think he was a critic of social justice, he made remarks as being a Christian and won’t kneel for anyone other then God, and everyone should respect that imo. He did make controversial remarks such as he thinks BLM is a Marxist org. But that’s the beauty of being an American, we all have the right to feel and think and say what we want. Right?
Balk:
I agree. He has every right to feel and say what he believes, but we have the right to not like it, and disagree. For example, someone has every right to say they think Hitler was a great leader. It’s their right to say that, but I would disagree vehemently, and find that opinion repulsive.
Way to go all the way with that comparison. Straight to Hitler because a man decided to NOT kneel for OUR National Anthem.
@Balk As of January 21st that right goes away for at least the next four years…
Rsox I agree, and sad to see.
Tad2b I don’t think anyone was saying you can’t disagree with him. What I was saying is people have lost the respect for others opinions and they try to cancel them out like all of Hollywood. Not what our founders intended. Hitler is a little extreme comparison imo.
spooky:
Please, that is just a cheap arguing trick. You’re intentionally making a false equivalency, trying to make it seem that I compared Coonrod to Hitler.
I used Hitler in my example because I believed that we could all agree that someone praising Hitler, while free to do so, would be disagreeable and disgusting.
I did not make any comparisons at all, let alone comparing Coonrod to Hitler, and if you believe I did, then show me where. Please feel free to quote where I wrote any such thing. I think you need to seriously work on your reading comprehension. It appears to be extremely poor.
Balk:
As I addressed spooky, please be aware that what I wrote was not a comparison. It was an example of something that a person has a right to say, but, I think we can agree, almost all of find us would find very objectionable.
But I agree totally we all should respect the opinions of others, but there is a gray area where some of those opinions are based in ignorance, xenophobia, or even racism. I will defend the right of anyone to express their opinion, but will disagree when that opinion is intolerant.
Tad2 so you would agree that over the last four years up till now that what people have complained about are actually guilty of doing? Ignorance etc..? Cause all I see is a once great MLB and other sports playing into politics when that’s not what most fans want to see or hear. I go to the ballpark to escape the crap of this world. Now it’s getting hard to want to do that. These kids get paid damn good money to play a kids game, they need to stick to that don’t you think?
@spooky, get your facts straight. Coonrod, in the season opener when the Giants played the Dodgers,
like every season opening game, MLB sponsored a large BLM campaign. Down both the 1st and 3rd baselines,
Both teams (and I think ALL teams in MLB) lined up and held a long black “cord/rope.” On the mega scoreboard was the MLB-wide BLM video with other athletes, actors, etc. speaking to the importance of the moment, and the BLM movement. Every single player, coach or dugout staff from both teams that was lined up and holding the rope, kneeled during the ceremony, except one: Sam Coonrod. @Balk above accurately restated what Coonrod said regarding his reasoning. I respect his decision and it is most certainly his right not to kneel. But, he is wrong about the BLM movement and it’s association with Marxism, and IMO, he’s racist. Now: when it came to the National anthem that day, Mookie was the only Dodger to kneel, and about 5 Giants kneeled. Those are the facts. Again, my opinion: glad Coonrod is gone. Not a SF fan favorite at all!!
Drama much? Not sure how got that from what is a clear post by balk
Giantsphan12 here’s some reading material for you. All knowledge is good knowledge right. Patrisse Cullors or Alicia Garza. Co founders. Read it. https://fee.org/articles/is-black-lives-matter-marxist-no-and-yes/
Now back to baseball
Well stated Balk.
@chico, my post was directed to spooky (look at the first line) who said Coonrod was unpopular for not kneeling for the National Anthem. I was explaining that Coonrod stood out for not kneeling/participating in the BLM ceremony.
@giantsphan12
Sam Coonrod is no racist, the people that accuse him of racism like you giantsphan12 for not kneeling are the fascists, Marxists and racists. You do not dictate what Sam Coonrod should or should not kneel or stand for, he’s just a baseball pitcher. Leave the guy alone., and take your bs politics elsewhere. It has been proven by self admission that BLM are racists and Marxists, and they are very violent. Did you take a knee for David Dorn?
@ Fred, in my post about Coonrod, I stated that “IMO” (in my opinion) he is racist. That’s all it is, my opinion. You make five or six statements in your post to me, and others on a regular basis, as though you are stating facts. You don’t truly know anymore than I truly know what Sam Coonrod’s feelings are regarding race. I also don’t name call or make rude statements to other baseball fans who post on this site. That is not going to facilitate anything positive. I don’t generally respond to your rude comments because I know that your and my OPINIONS regarding politics and more, are very different. A nice, cordial exchange of ideas is always welcomed but, by your posts, it is always “your way or the highway,” IMO. So, let’s peacefully let it go, or, have a civil discourse without the name calling and rude tone. Peace brother!
@ balk, yes, all knowledge is good knowledge. I appreciate your approach. To be honest, I didn’t know about the founders of the BLM. I read the article you recommended. I also read about five others. Here is my opinion after doing so: depending on your source (right leaning-left leaning) depends on how much the Marxist ideals influence the founders of BLM. That said, I do believe that the BLM movement and societal influence is much larger than the three founders and their ideals. It is a large, nationwide “concept” “idea” and/or “belief-system” at this point. As such, I don’t believe that most who truly feel that Black Lives Matter,
believe in Marxism or it’s core principles. But, that’s just my opinion.
And, yeah, back to baseball! Who the hell is going
To sign Bauer ?
@fffbbb
Because he didn’t kneel for the flag and anthem of the formerly USA you’re calling him a “jerk”. You’re everything that’s wrong with the world right now. Furthermore, even if he did criticize anything at all including ‘social justice’, he’s entitled to do so. There used to be this thing called freedom and freedom of speech, but now it doesn’t exist anymore due to the many ‘jerks’ in this world. The so called anti fascists are the fascists.
I really miss the downvote option for some of these comments…..
I think your on to something. He can pitch doesn’t make sense to send him packing over one off year when they are still a ways off from being competitive and he is young enough to be a part of that.
A 4th rd pick from 2020 draft for a fringe bullpen guy, nice trade for giants
@SamCoonrod will be the first MLBer banned from Twitter, just watch.
Ya…who needs free speech…
@dixie normous Username checks out
I don’t know who needs to hear this, but it’s a private company. It’s why it’s I can’t walk into your house and berate you about how simple you are. Companies and citizens get to dictate who interacts with their property.
*cue “The more you know
Keep that same energy when local businesses start denying service to the rioters who burned their buildings down last summer.
It’s possible to not agree with Sam and not want him banned from having a voice. Performance wise HUGE get for the Giants. MLB pipeline 200 player for a less than mediocre AAA pitcher? You take that trade anytime.
Shhh, it’s the internet. If you don’t agree with someone, you clearly hate their guts.
I completely agree. However, when you see some of the stuff that gets banned/removed, you realize that it’s getting ridiculous. Not to mention, when companies decide to change the Terms of Use Agreements years later, it’s a bit laughable.
@mrtwotone – thank you! 100%
They were all arrested. Again, I think you’re confusing committing crimes with a private business deciding they no longer want this person as a customer. Are you implying the government should dictate why a business should be able to do? That seems, hmmmm, I wish there was a word for that.
No it’s not. It’s a private business making decisions. again, we are not entitled to 240 characters in the constitution.
What is it called when big tech tries to ban a free speech app all together?
Every website has a terms and conditions. If you break them, then you’re subject to being removed. Personally, I think it’s best if we just all stayed off Twitter.
Free market. If they decide someone is bad for business, the. Byyyyeeee. If the market doesn’t agree, then another business will take its lunch. It’s basic free market.
@bk – so they determine that it’s bad for business based on the speech that they allow. They determine that something is “racist,” let’s say. Well we know that term is about as useless and blurred as it gets these days. Given that, who is big tech to determine what type of speech is acceptable or not? Who is big tech to determine what is racist or not?
By that logic, Uber shouldn’t exist because taxi drivers think it’s bad. Independent food delivery services shouldn’t exist because it’s bad for the actual restaurant’s delivery service.
The term “racist” is not useless and blurred. Big tech doesn’t have to define what’s racist and what’s not, because racism is clearly defined. It’s not a floating, loosely defined idea. Being hateful towards minorities is racist. Not being hateful towards minorities is not racist.
I have seen people call Kzkzk members racist which is obviously 100% true and correct. I have also seen people labeled as racists for not kneeling for the anthem or for not agreeing that a certain privilege exists. There are major differences between those three things but yet they all get painted with the same brush.
KKK* autocorrect.
Taylor Trammell wrote an article titled “Baseball Isn’t Back Enough.” What if a white player wrote an article titled “Baseball Isn’t White Enough?” What if I wrote an article titled “Baseball Isn’t Hispanic Enough?” Would all three be okay? I have a feeling that one of them would be frowned upon.
Because white isn’t an ethnicity.
You know it would be labeled racist. You just don’t want to say it.
Yes, because again, white is not an ethnicity. Saying baseball isn’t Hispanic enough is a comment on the Latin American community. Saying baseball isn’t white enough is just saying there’s not enough people that look a certain way, because, white is not a race. It is a color.
Cambio:
That’s a false equivalency. If Baseball had had a ban against white people. If white people had be enslaved, if Jim Crow had been directed against whites, if whites had been segregated in lesser schools, if white people couldn’t be served at a restaurant counter, if whites had not been allowed to sit in the front seats of a bus, and the percentage of their representation in baseball was far less than their percentage of the population, then yes, it would be fine to write a book titled “Baseball Isn’t White Enough”.
What about saying that “baseball isn’t black enough?:
I would say that white people being told to apologize for their “white privilege” is racist.
Black generally refers to a single continent. A single area. An area that throughout periods of time were under singular rule.
White cannot claim the same. The term white does not reflect a commonality in location or culture. It describes the physical appearance of someone and nothing else.
@bkbkbkbk
Learn the difference between what a publisher is and what a platform is.
Tell that to the cake bakers.
Taxis dont have to let uber drivers into their cabs. Thats the beauty. All business owners get to decide who they sell their products to. The ONLY thing you cant discriminate against are things that the Supreme Court has ruled is illegal to consider (Sex, Race..etc).
Big tech is your local restaurant manager who decides calling the bartender the B word is grounds for removal because most of the restaurant (not all but most) find it disrupts their meal.
Now (I am decently known tech CEO/Founder of a known Co and Id venture to guess a handful of you know my name) I do believe there is a MUCH bigger and easier solution for all of this that doesnt really make the press. Its not the freedom of speech issue thats the actual problem. It’s an algorithim that promotes # of engagements on content that is the solvable piece. You see when a piece of content is strictly judged on the sheer #/intensity of reaction, you reward testing more and more reactive hot takes. The biggest win of the next government will be to promote restrictions around algorithmic promotion. It will slow down all of this disaster.
@bkbk – there is a difference between Twitter controlling what is said on their app and big tech trying to shut down Parler because of its free speech element.
No, you’re confusing section 230 with basic private enterprise. Both types of businesses can legal censor everything, the ONLY difference (and it hasn’t been prosecuted to verdict) is the legal and civil responsibility for the content on platform.
Sexual identity is a protected class according to the Supreme Court, so I covered that.
No it’s the same. The App Store is the same business as twitter, a platform for conversation. The only diff is the app store’s discourse is expressed in separate apps and twitter is short form convo. Both business are just saying “naw, you’re behavior isn’t something we want on our platform.” Thats legal, even if hurtful.
Just because something is legal doesn’t mean it’s right. The holocaust was legal. Slavery was legal.
I also want to add, anyone who says that deciding whether to ban was easy either way, hasn’t thought about it enoguh. They lose both ways. Given how unclear the rules are they’re in a tough spot.
Holocaust was illegal. They were actively lying about genocide and they violated just about every law passed at the Geneva convention.
You can vote that a company doesn’t represent your values with your wallet and feet. That said you aren’t legal entitled to them.
No, the Holocaust was legal. Whatever the Nazi state did was by definition, “legal.”
Legality and morality are different.
wrong
wrong, spot on
Hopefully. If like the other nuts he is stupid enough to believe free speech means you can harass and threaten. A lot of people need to read this constitution they are so fond of misquoting.
Of course it’s wrong to harass people and be racist, etc. I do however find it amusing that one little free speech comment seems to have triggered people.
it was actually 5 free speech comments that you made; which was 1/3 of the total comments. I hope this entire thread gets deleted because it has nothing to do with baseball and that violates the terms and conditions of this website’s community. Does that mean I’m being censored of my free speech? No, it just means that this is a baseball site where we’re supposed to be talking about baseball. See the difference?
No one was triggered. A bunch thoughtful concerned fellow countrypeople saw that you misunderstood how free speech laws worked civically and privately and came to your rescue by correcting your misunderstanding in an acecssible way.
I think you’re confusing controversial opinions with people wanting to help you be better and more educated.
If Twitter wants to be in the right and not the wrong they should treat every customer the same. They are biased, and you’d have to be blind to not see it. They censor one group of people, but not the other. That’s not business and I agree everyone should protest Facebook and Twitter
dixie normous:
It isn’t that people were overreacting to “one little free speech comment”. The issue of free speech is an exceedling important one, especially these days. It’s an issue that many people do not fully understand. And it was apparent from your comment that you are one of those people.
The constitution does not guarantee the right to use a private concern like Google, or Twitter to say anything you want. In fact, free speech does not guarantee the right to ever say anything that you want. Freedom to do anything ends when that expression violates the rights of others..
So, Candace Owens has her videos banned because she says that a certain racial privilege is a myth and she refuses to back this silly victim-hood notion. I don’t think she is violating the rights of others, but here we are.
Balk:
You are absolutely wrong. Anyone, regardless of their political affiliations, cannot post lies, or incite hate, or violence. They are banned if they do. It’s just that the far right in this country are the ones most often expressing hate and racism.
@Tad – but these days, not agreeing with a certain privilege or movement is considered racist. Using logic to back the number of genders is considered hate speech and not inclusive.
Because most of the time it’s hate speech and not inclusive.
Logic and facts shouldn’t be thrown out because it hurts someone’s feelings.
Unfortunately most of the time, the “logic and facts” are Cherry picked to fulfill a specific agenda. Say, if I say something like “there’s more black on black crimes than white on black crimes,” I might be quoting technically accurate numbers. But I am completely ignoring things like poverty rates, systemic racism, educational funding, and other socioeconomic inequalities that need to be measured before determining whether one race has a higher propensity towards acting in a specific way.
It allows for a crutch. It removes the need for personal responsibility. If I don’t succeed, should I blame white privilege? No, my success or failure is not dictated on race.
By citing that crime statistic, you would be calling out the hypocrisy of a certain movement that cherry picks the basis for their whole movement.
Everyone’s success and failure is, at least partially, dictated by a variety of factors – including race. Obviously some people are going to be successful, or intelligent, or criminals regardless, but to ignore that we all start in different places in life is ridiculous.
If I take 100 people with a high iq born in Egypt; and then another 100 people with the same iq born in Palo Alto, it would be ridiculous to assume they would make the same amount of money or success in their lifetime. Yes people buck the norm. Yes some people make it out of slums or overcome their respective adversities. But your success and failure, as well as mine, are absolutely related to the circumstances you were born into.
So, someone being born in the Barrio shouldn’t be successful? Someone being born in the projects shouldn’t be successful? I agree, the odds are not in their favor- but it’s not because of color. it’s because of culture.
Being born in the barrio or the projects is not someone’s culture. It’s someone’s financial circumstances. And if there is a higher concentration of a specific culture in that specific financial circumstance, then it can lead to misleading statistics that ultimately wind up misquoted as someones “logic.” That’s all my point was.
Who decides what is hate speech? I see hate speech on this site everyday.
They dont, you’re falling into the trap of reading a few headlines versus the raw numbers. They dont discriminate.
You also wouldnt show up in your local mexican restaurant and demand they play very loud mexican music. They get to decide what experience is best for the majority of their customers. I think youd want the same control of your own business one day.
@andywarpath – financial privilege does exist. White privilege does not. We will agree to disagree but I do appreciate the conversation. I look forward to chatting with you again.
Likewise. We might disagree, but i really appreciate you keeping it cordial. Harder and harder to find a conversation like this that doesn’t devolve into name calling and insults. Thank you again.
@tad2b13
You’re absolutely wrong.
It seems you’ve got your right handed batters and left handed batters mixed up. It’s the left handed batters and deep left fielders expressing hate and racism.
@fffbbb
He didn’t say anything at all. He didn’t take a knee, maybe you want to force him to, and if he doesn’t you’ll take him to the guillotine, well just because of your pathetic politics.
Sam Coonrod has intestinal fortitude, standing up for what he believes in, unlike many people in this world right now, most of whom are cowards.
Naw, the only cowards are the ones that cry when people or organizations disagree with thier ideas. if yiou believe that and an org doesnt want you around, thats the consequence of free speech. No one is required to invite you into their house or business just beacuse you wanted to say how you feel outloud.
@bkbk – “when people or organizations disagree with their ideas.” Exactly, like a certain movement did when people didn’t agree with the term “white privilege.”
The Giants basically just got a free fourth round lottery pick for a bad AAA player.
How did the Giants manage to get a 4th round pick for a 28-year-old who has an ERA and FIP over 5 in the majors and an ERA nearing 7 at Tripe-A?
because Ragsdale was an underslot guy. he woudlnt have gone in the 4th in a normal year.
The fact that he was ranked in the top 200 draft prospects by MLB Pipeline and was traded for a bad relief pitcher is still a great trade on the Giants end.
he was ranked 169th and went 116th. underslot.
He could have been drafted in the 8th round and I still think this would have been a great trade for the Giants. Ranked as a top 200 draft prospect for a reliever who struggles with control so much he had an ERA nearing 7 is a pretty decent deal. Overslot/underslot doesn’t make this deal bad.
Coonrod is terrible, the Phillies are just desperate. Zaidi likes to trade with desperate teams, see the Pomeranz for Dubon trade of last year.
@Baseball 1600, I don’t think the Pom / Dubon trade is a good example of either team being desperate. Both teams got what they needed. Dubon has control and can play multiple positions and Pomeranz was very good for Milwaukee to get them to the playoffs.
Terrible example. Pomeranz has been elite out of the pen. Dubon is an average hitter at best who’s ceiling is a utility player. Pomeranz would have been a major weapon against the Dodgers in the NLDS if Hader and Grisham didn’t collapse in the wild card game.
The guy throws 100 with movement he just doesn’t always know where it is going
Cooney has triple digit heat but he hit Greg Garcia in the head last September leading to potential reprisals from San Diego. Being the only team member that did not kneel the first game back from George Floyd’s killing didn’t help, but if this dude can harness his fastball he could be very good. He has good secondary pitches. Bottom line, the G’s 40 man is full and they needed the roster spot, meaning a major league signing is likely imminent.
yeah, i mean, the last part was probably the biggest reason for this move.
I don’t understand this move from the Phillies perspective. Unless I’m missing something the Giants got a much better return.
I think the Phillies have something big up their sleeve coming ..calm before the storm
Hmm. That would be great, but I don’t know.
VonPurple:
I think the Phillies feel like they need immediate help. Ragsdale is a couple years away, while Coonrod will be in the pen this season. I also think they Giants took advantage of that situation.
I agree with these points, but Coonrod doesn’t look like he’ll help all that much. His numbers last year leave much to be desired.
I’d love to learn about the origins of these surnames! They have a real 70’s baseball card vibe! I picture both of them as burly giants with mutton chop sideburns lol
I don’t understand the Phillies thinking in this one
Would have taken a sack for potatoes for coonrod. Good luck with him!
I am sure Andrew McCutchen is thrilled
Phils need bullpen help, but I’m not sure how much help this actually is, plus they gave away a decent prospect to boot
Interesting texture.
“Redskins” is considered offensive… “Coonrod”?
Al Sharpton holding for you online 1.
Brady Klopfer is beating off reading this right now.
Coonrod is at best another Hunter Strickland. He might give you flashes of dominance because of his stuff, but when put into the closer role he absolutely crumbled and it seems like he was unpopular in the locker room. Imo this was unnecessary for the Phillies, could’ve probably signed guys on minor league deals that would’ve been better
I’m so glad to see that moron off of the giants, sorry Phillies hes your problem now
This is a good pickup for the Phillies. Coonrod didn’t not have a good year in 2020 but the guy does have potential and a high ceiling
SIU SIU SIU!!!
Worst name in baseball current titleholder.
Originally a fifth-round pick in the 2014 draft, Coonrod debuted in the big leagues by posting a 3.58 ERA over 27 2/3 innings for the Giants in 2019, though advanced metrics weren’t impressed by his work. That fortune turned in 2020, as while Coonrod’s advanced numbers improved, his ERA ballooned to 9.82 in 14 2/3 frames. Overall, Coonrod has a 5.74 ERA, 18.9 K%, 7 K-BB%, and 5.05 SIERA over his brief Major League career.
I’m a little surprised that baseball hasn’t evolved to use advanced metrics to determine the outcomes of games instead of the age old score. They clearly need to modernize.
I didn’t realize Coonrod’s ERA was so high last year. He has an electric arm and the potential to close. I think this will work out for both teams but Phillies will see the benefits first.
Oh wonderful. A low character reclamation project.
Precisely what this team needs.
unless his character is detrimental to the team then the character thing really shouldnt matter to those building the team, and if that was the case he probably would have been jettisoned by the Giants long ago.
Is Schilling in the Hall of Fame yet? Apparently, character matters. A lot. Whether you agree or not doesn’t really matter. It’s not your game. Someone else gets to decide. So Schilling is not in the Hall of Fame. And it’s because of character. Whether or not I agree is inconsequential. Character matters. Obviously. I’m not saying that it’s right or wrong. Just that it matters. Our opinions are meaningless.
the character clause for the Hall of Fame doesnt suggest the player’s character was nessicarily harmful on the field. (though it could) im not saying character doesnt matter, or that who you employ doesnt matter regardless, but im questioning if his character is harmful to the team, which is hardly proven. personally, i dont think teammates caring about the knee thing is valid. obviously you could just take a knee to show solidarity with teammates, but its about an issue that’s bigger then just the team.
Not taking a knee against America does not equal “low character”
no one was “taking a knee against America” and no one with any sense thinks that.
Either way the man has every right to stand. That doesn’t make him “low character”.
i agree with you. And I actually think Coonrod justified his stance as delicately and politely as he could given the circumstances. It was (and continues to be) a very charged and sensitive situation.
He not only didn’t kneel, but he didn’t kneel when BLM was being represented, most teammates stood up after for the National Anthem. All players on both teams recognized the importance of togetherness on an issue that really affects some of their teammates. Coonrod even refused to even hold the ribbon. Can’t say that plays well in the clubhouse. Plus he was awful last season, so there’s that. No surprise he was moved even with a 97 mph heater.
He refused to kneel because he said his religion precluded him from supporting BLM because people that support it are all communists
@kreckert
Oh so you know Sam Coonrod, you’ve actually met him to know about his “character”.
It’s amazing that people such as you make ill formed opinions on people you’ve never met.
Guess they don’t like his spin rate
Great move Giants. Addition by subtraction
Plenty of other available arms for Phillies to sign. I figured they would try and fix their historically bad bullpen. Plenty of time left but they gotta do better than this. It’s January and they still haven’t re-signed Realmuto?
it was more then a few guys that were an issue, it was the whole pen. options are huge in cycling pen arms, and you’re unlikely to get options with a FA. if they make a few serious signings then this is down the list of offseason BP moves which is fine.
This isn’t the Phillies of the last few years. They won’t be competing (or attempting to compete) in 2021. It’s a retooling year with the hopes of spending again in 2022. Sucks, but this is the way it’s going. Even Realmuto doesn’t make the Phils a playoff team. So many holes that and they don’t seem willing to spend this year.
plenty of the offseason left and plenty of other teams less willing to spend. i think there are deals to be had that can make a Wild Card spot a very realistic possibility.
Darkside:
Not being a Phillies fan and living on the opposite coast, I don’t see many Phillies games. But statistically, it appears the pen wasn’t that bad. It looks like what they needed was a dependable closer.
They were 29th in SV%, and tied for the most blown saves with the LAA. On the other hand they were league average, 32%, at preventing inherited runners from scoring. By comparison the NYYs allowed 37% to score, Oak 34%, Atl and Mia, 33%, and Hou tied with Phi at 32%. All of those being playoff teams.
It seems to me that indicates some level of effectiveness.
@tad I can assure you the prn was not only the worst in baseball last season, it was one of the worst in history.
no, it was bad. historically bad.
VonPurple and Darkside:
I was hoping either of you would post some stats to show the error of my assumptions, and put their inept conclusions into context. But just saying they’re bad is not enough for me. Statistically they weren’t even the worst relief corps in baseball in 2020, let alone historically bad,
As I indicated in a previous post, my perception of Trevor Gott, being the worst pitcher in the Giants pen in 2020, at least for blowing saves, was incorrect. I realized I was wrong I when I looked at the facts. I’m sure the Phillies pen was bad, but think maybe your perception may have exaggerated just how bad they really were.
Not only were they league average in preventing inherited runners from scoring, they were also league average in holds. They were bad in losses by relievers, though hardly the worse. but conversely they gave their closers the 8th most save opportunities, which the closers blew at a high rate.
Again, it appears the performance of the relievers was, at least mediocre, until it got late into the game. The high number of blown saves, indicates the pen was not bad as a whole, only the closers were. Those 25 save opportunities, tied for 8th best with the WS winning Dodgers, were not all delivered by the starters. 14 blown saves, the worst in baseball, in 25 opportunities, says it’s the closers, not the middle, or long relievers..
Also, one thing I noticed after posting, was their fairly large number of losses in relief, 14, was exactly that of the number of blown saves. There is no way they could have been historically bad when the long and middle relief was apparently so effective.
Statistically it was the 3rd worst pen in history.
https://section215.com/2020/08/10/philadelphia-phillies-bullpen-4/amp/
Actually this is the wrong article. They finished worse than this. I have no idea where your getting the idea that the long and middle relief was good. I’ll find complete stats for you.
*you’re
Great move Giants. Addition by subtraction. No relief from him.
As a Giants fan I am happy to see Coonrod go. The Giants were tied for 22nd in SV% last season. 11 blown saves were the main reason they did not make the PS. Coonrod blew 2 saves in his 5 opportunities, which is just slightly better at 60% than the team. Getting a reasonable prospect back is just icing on the cake.
Now if Zaidi can trade away Trevor Gott I’ll be happier still.
If got can put it together he is more of a deadline guy, he got just over the minimum for his tender so if he is halfway decent he’ll be attractive in a swap
Wolf Chan:
Yeah, you may be right. In my mind Gott was the biggest offender in blowing games I had every reason to believe the Giants would win. It seemed to me Gott must have blown 5 or 6 saves.
But looking at the stats, I see Coonrod was worse, although not by much. Gott had one more save, in one additional opportunity, and like Coonrod, he blew 2.
I’m extremely happy as a giants fan to get that cancer coonrod off of the team.
Good riddance! Racist piece of s#it
@tonightsspecialguest
I’d say you’re the “racist”. Not wanting to take a knee because you believe in standing for the anthem of the formerly USA is not ‘racist’, yet it is ill informed people like you that assert that lie. You’re the problem, “racist”. Sam Coonrod has done nothing “racist” whatsoever.
His comments on BLM have been pretty freaking racist.
If you think kneeling during the national anthem is disrespectful, you probably cheered the domestic terrorism that occurred on the 6th.
@champion1701
BLM is a racist organisation in its name itself. Coonrod doesn’t have to kneel for you or any other fascist political Marxist leftist organisation such as BLM.
Let’s see who continues to kneel now-pathetic.
People that consider BLM a terrorist organization but don’t consider those that stormed the Capitol as “terrorists” are simply showing their white privilege.
Based on the definition of racism, “prescribing a prejudice on someone based solely on their skin color,” the term “white privilege” is racist.
@Baseball1600 There’s no such thing as “white privilege”. All people have the same laws applied to them. BLM are a terrorist racist organisation. Their name is racist on its own by definition..
Fred..you of all people shouldn’t be missing the point of BLM xD
The point of the movement and how they acted + what they said/wrote on their website didn’t equate to the same. It’s a victim mentality that is apparently “cool.”
“The Giants said Coonrod’s political views had nothing to do with Saturday’s deal that sent the 28-year-old to Philadelphia in exchange for righty prospect Carson Ragsdale. Coonrod briefly became a national, polarizing figure after he declined to kneel with the rest of the Giants and Dodgers on Opening Night last season, during a Black Lives Matter moment of unity.“
Yeah! Right! Not political! Just like Zaidi and Kaplan aren’t liberals.
Gabe Kaplan is a total right wing plant sent to teach kids in the 70s how to be good little racists
Coonrod is just as bad as Hunter Strickland. Good move dumping him.
I wonder if the comments will remain open by the end of the night…
DD tearing down the farm…
Phil’s must really like this guy to trade away a fairly high drafted prospect.
30th ranked in a bad system. i dont think you can make that much of 50.1 college innings. maybe a good get, maybe becomes absolutly nothing. i dont think DD makes this trade if he thinks the guy is some superstar in the making though.
Getting Philadelphia’s 30th best prospect for Coonrod plus freeing up a roster spot was a big win for the Giants.
You obviously pay no attention to the Phillies’ drafting issues.
“Dixie Normous” or “Coonrod”.
Obviously, the former is Bryan Colangelo’s burner commenting account and the latter is Bryan Colangelo’s burner human identity. So much here to reveal and discuss.
Yet the talk here turned to Hitler.
The biggest issue driving this was politics. The irony is that the majority owner of the Giants (Franklin) is one of the most conservative owners in baseball. Even though they keep him well screened, he still does things that make the news. Coonrod will have a good career and the player the Giants traded from has great potential. However, do not to deceive yourself into thinking this wasn’t a politics move.
I give this move a 10 (era)