FEB. 1: The union “doesn’t like expanded playoffs” in the league’s proposal, Jon Heyman of MLB Network tweets. It’s no sure thing the union will even put forth a counterproposal, per Heyman.
JAN. 31, 8:56PM: According to multiple reports, one of the MLBPA’s other concerns about the league’s offer is that the players believe commissioner Rob Manfred would have too much extra power to modify the schedule (or cancel games outright). The players are under no obligation to negotiate any sort of altered procedures for the start or length of the 2021 season, and thus without a new deal in place to modify the terms of the current Collective Bargaining Agreement, the players would proceed as usual towards the scheduled starts of Spring Training and the April 1st Opening Day.
1:32PM: MLB and the Players’ Union continue to haggle over conditions and rules for the upcoming season. On Friday, MLB made another attempt to find an acceptable solution, submitting a proposal to the MLBPA for a 154-game season without prorating player pay, per Tim Brown of Yahoo Sports (via Twitter). The proposal also includes delaying the season by a month and expanding playoffs. Joel Sherman of the New York Post adds that the universal designated hitter is also included in this offer. The MLBPA leadership are mulling the offer this weekend.
As it sounds, this deal has everything both sides want: full season pay for the players, expanded playoffs for the owners, and a delayed start for the health and safety of everyone involved. These are the basic conditions that we’ve been heading for all along, or so it has seemed. After all, while MLB has never been in favor of pushing the playoffs deep into November, this year there is a particular benefit to pushing the season in that direction. It would almost certainly mean a greater number of participants – and fans – having been vaccinated against COVID-19. November baseball may be colder, but it’s almost certain to be safer as well.
And yet, for the players, there are still some long-term implications that could prevent them from simply signing on the dotted line. As noted by the Athletic’s Eno Sarris (via Twitter), caving on expanded postseason gives the players very little leverage to carry with them into the CBA negotiations at the end of the 2021 season. Besides, the MLBPA represents a large body of players, most of whom have made preparations for a season to start on time, as notes MLB Player Agent Rafa Nieves (via Twitter). All told, the expectations are the MLBPA will reject this newest proposal, per Bob Nightengale of USA Today.
Extend the season by two weeks and get 162 games in
Great news that the union has shot down expanded playoffs.
Not interested in the “let everyone in” model. Do fans really enjoy it when they’re the 8th seed out of 15 teams in the NL or AL? You have to know you’re outmatched.
In the NBA there’s only been 2 champions below 3 seed. 4 seed 1969 Celtics and 6 seed 1995 Rockets
In the NFL, there’s only been 3 champions below a 4 seed (2 6’s and 1 5)
Now the MLB has better parity than the NBA for sure. But there’s no evidence to suggest it’s worthwhile to the fans of any team below a 4 seed to realistically think they can win a championship.
Dumb luck will happen once every blue moon. But it’s not worth watering down the playoffs. Any fan who gets excited they snuck in as a 6 or 7 seed is simply in denial.
5 is already bad enough. It should have stayed at 4 seeds at most.
Stop the madness. We don’t need 6-8 playoff teams per league
Agree but their reasoning has nothing to do with your post. They simply see expanded playoffs as one of their best bargaining positions. What do they want in return! $$. Probably some type of increased pot to go towards reimbursing for this past season’s partial pay. Owners see expanding the playoffs as a way to make up for the losses incurred during pandemic. It’s probably the one and only time I’m on the player’s side. Thales that extra revenue and share it.
*Take that extra revenue and share it.
Still dont understand why they cant just push the season into December and play in domes during the playoffs for this season only.
They could, but it’s tied to money. Everyone is clambering for monetary equitability at the risk of the entire sport and its fan base. Plus, MLB obviously wants the expanded playoffs in so they can make more money. It’s all strategy for the dollar.
There’s only one Yankee Clipper and your not him
That totally makes sense, but they could easily do both those – play 162 and a full expanded playoffs. This wanting to cutoff regular season games is the dumb part. Also they could do 7 inning DH’s again to get to 162.
Look back in the day the season was originally 154 games then 162 which benefit baseball.
Yeah, that’s very true, Marty. It could work that way as well without any issue. They’re lost on me.
If MLB really cared about both Covid safety and the integrity of the game and recordbooks, they’d eliminate the Wild Card nonsense and have just the LDS, LCS and WS along with a 162-game regular season. But no it’s always about the money, above everything including Covid safety.
Fever Pitch, How do you have a LDS without a wild card?
Starting the season on time is tantamount to not caring about Covid safety.
And just where do you think the owners get the money to pay the players ? Some magic piggy bank? Even players making the MLB minimum salary are in the top 2% of earners in the US. Try living in the real world.
@Halo11Fan Similar to last year and other sports. The team with the best record in each league gets a first round bye, and the other two division winners play each other in the LDS. That would free up 9-10 days, the same number of days freed up by lopping off 8 games from the regular season. Then they could start the regular season mid-April and finish it mid-October.
Oh puh-lease, you can start the season on time and still care about the safety of the people involved. Wanting to play baseball as scheduled doesn’t make us bad people
I don’t see why they are fighting so hard against a universal DH? who wants to see pitchers hit?
Have you been watching baseball long? The team with the best record sitting out for an extended break would likely be disastrous. Baseball is not like football.
I think the scenario MLB is afraid of is the Dodgers and Padres playing the NLCS in Texas in November in front of 40,000 conflicted fans. They fear the Dodgers and Padres fans sitting at home in 70 degree SoCal weather yelling at their televisions that they should be playing at home instead of this neutral site nonsense. It’ll probably cause a lot of irrational anger — but if MLB decided to allow the NLCS to be played in home parks, then Twins fans would be furious that SoCal fans get preferential treatment.
This is a tangent, but the Twins really should have built a dome, or at least a retractable roof. Target Field is very nice, I’ve enjoyed the games I’ve attended there, but if one MLB market needs protection from the natural elements, it’s Minnesota. I understand that the Metrodome was so bad by the end of its run that they wanted to get as far away from that style as possible, but sheesh.
As a Brewers fan, I remember when they announced the plans for Miller Park’s retractable roof. There were plenty of people who didn’t like the idea, and I had my own reservations at first, too. But I tell you what: it’s nice not to have had a rainout in 20 years, and to be able to attend games in early April or late September (or, occasionally, October) and not be uncomfortably cold the entire game.
Typical Sconi getting cold.
Just kidding, Lambau rules in the winter.
Please no more 7 inning doubleheaders at the MLB level. Game needs to play by the same rules for all games and all teams.
And why is it such a big deal for the players if they still get paid for 162 while only playing 154? This seems like a reasonable offer from the owners and the players will tilt sentiment against them.
Negotiating BS, man.
I’ve spent my entire life around construction projects. Both union & non-union. MLB screwed up.
They put forth a very reasonable offer. What they needed to do was demand concessions over things like getting paid for 8 games work while not having to work them.
That’s just so union, man.
EXACTLY!
Because that’s lame and not necessary. Neutral sight playoff was only needed for 2020.
2 big issues
1) With vaccinations by November home teams very likely will be able to pack their stadiums $$$
2) pushing it into December makes starting 2022 on time unlikely, can’t give pitchers 6 weeks off and say let’s go again
The rate that vaccinations have been distributed and accounting for shortages may make that distribution calendar slide into late in the year. I can see partial, socially distanced crowds but 2021 is still going to be a crapshoot because of COVID.
joe, the mob boss, is “in charge”, things are about to get a lot ( several lots) worse…
Bulk of revenue, since fans are not in the stands, comes from TV, and the networks do not want the season to extend into December. This is why that plan isn’t a consideration.
Christmas day doubleheaders!
Nah, I say we go for 81 games on 4th July, 81 games on Thanksgiving and then all the playoff games on Christmas Day. Play multi-ball as well so we can get through the games quicker and fit them all in.
Forget domes even.. Have playoff games in 2 Florida stadiums, Arizona and don’t forget LA and Anaheim. Houston and Arlington Texas are not going to be “snowed in” either in november/December. not hard to find places to host playoffs and leave out the domes for most part.. Just leave frigid northern states and split them into southern areas. An abundance of places
Yep I bet Tampa hosting two NL teams will draw a full stadium.
Only if both teams play at the same time.
Playoff tickets are so expensive that most people who can afford them won’t mind the cost of a plane ticket and hotel. But it just wouldn’t be the same atmosphere when the fans are split and there’s no real home team. An anti-climactic world series atmosphere is a concern for MLB more because it could hurt the TV ratings. 2020 was different because the conflicted fans were still more fans than the rest of the season. And schedule conflicts with other sports, yes.
The real problem with this concept is it runs smack into the other pro sports.
@BlueSkies, Exactly. It seems the first few commenters of this article inexplicably ignored that basic reality.
MLB does NOT want to compete with NFL and NBA TV viewers more than they already do.
Yeah, December is a great time of year for people to not get sick.
Most of the money for MLB comes from TV and the TV networks don’t want MLB playoffs competing with football and other sports.
Football only plays on Sundays
Thursday and Monday
Have you been watching this year?
Nfl plays Thursday and Sunday. Saturday late in the season. You have college almost daily.
@MartyMcFly Pre-2020, they also played on Mondays, Thursdays, and possibly Saturdays (depending on how late in December).
You’re batting 1/3, but was likely more luck than anything.
Except for Monday Nigh Football and Thursday Night Football. Oh, and everyday of the week NBA and NHL.
There is too much money tied up in a game. If they reduced all revenues by 65%. Cut ticket prices accordingly and made the games affordable and available these problems would go away. As it is players,owners,media, and yes the fans are out of touch with world hunger and poverty in America. When you have no home and no food you don’t care about baseball games in December or domes.
But why punish those who have a home and food who DO care about baseball?
Nurse – I don’t understand why you keep coming to this website to complain about MLB. It’s a site for fans of the game, not for people who want to argue that baseball is pointless. If you want to whine about other problems in this world, go to another website.
ah, the new, gender nutral, dh loving fan base…
ah, the new, gender nutral, dh loving, do not disagree with US, fan base…
If you are going to argue about hunger and poverty you can make a case with just about any argument. Solving these doesn’t constitute giving out ridiculous sums of money since we clearly already do this and let’s not get into what actually happens to that money. So let’s stick to baseball in a baseball forum. There is a time and place for everything.
When you have no home and no food you don’t care about baseball games
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That’s probably not true. When you grow up without a car, without a vacation, and with holes in you sneakers, watching the game at home with your dad is still pretty cool.
In Nurse Follers- If they cut revenue by 65% they are still contractually obligated to their payrolls.
They cut ticket revenue by 100% in 2020. I guess all the problems are solved now.
Why don’t you sell the computer and or phone that you are using comment on this website with and donate it to a homeless family, or better yet, sell it and give them the money for food.
Nurse –
Wtf? I mean, seriously? How about you go out and help all these poor souls you worry so much about instead of wasting your time spouting off this BS on a baseball website that no one besides yourself wants to hear? Go find a hill somewhere to give your speech
The players will not want to agree with have to travel and leave their families for playoff done games when Covid may no longer be as big of a threat to fans. Teams also do not want to have their fans have to travel since it will reduce the number of fans that may attend games
Because NFL&NBA.. that’s why.. nothing more, nothing less.
Can”t all the teams hold spring training in Florida instead of delaying?
It’s not about any of that. It’s the fact if the season goes into December, then 2022 will be delayed again. The pattern has to stop this year otherwise next season will be impacted the the following etc. this offer seems fine. I don’t like the expanded playoffs but just deal with it. There is more at risk to this sport if they continue the fighting and hurt this season again and then strike next season.
Not sure if players would want short off season. Spring training in 2022 February.
I hope the MLBPA refuses to give up any money and and will only play from 100% pay for a 154 season. There is no baseball with out the players!!!
That’s what this proposal is. 154 games, no prorated pay, universal DH, extended playoffs, season starts a month or so late
Yea go up against NFL that makes sense
MLBPA and MLB keep this up and their won’t be any fans left. The cure all vaccine is here. I want 162 games and NO expanded playoffs. If you are a player or fan or stadium worker and scared opt out. 60 game regular seasons are a joke. Play ball.
MLBPA and MLB keep this up and their won’t be any fans left.
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Sorry you don’t like 154-game seasons, but I doubt anyone even watches 154 games, let alone 162.
And back when I use to chop up season tickets with my friends, do you which tickets went last? April tickets. Some of the guys would simply tell me to give away those early-April Tuesday night games against KC.
A 154-game season is a long time coming.
Ya know, I’ll watch/stream/listen to damn near every Yankee game pre, post, & regular season.
But watching baseball is different for me than watching football. One of the things I like about baseball games is the fact that I can do other things while still paying attention to it.
All that being acknowledged, 8 games is nothing to trip about one way or the other.
The Voice of Reason emerges …. what’s up Ducky!
Lol
Mornin’ @Clipper
If I’m the voice of reason – good heavens, man – are we ever in trouble around here.
I’m lamenting the end of grouse season, Clip. Can’t get up to Thunder Bay this winter – border closed. At least there’s still geese & small game. By the end of spring goose season in mid May my new pup might even be able to bring some of them back. Little dude still has some growing to do.
Anyway.
Yanks done? No more bullpen help? No more pitching at all?
(I grow weary of the players/owners bickering)
Maybe the Mets fans want to watch the games at Citi Field
They should start the games in May after they get all the players vaccinated and end the season the last day of August. Expand the playoffs for this season only and allow 28 players on the roster and expand it to 32 for the playoffs. You don’t need to play in April and November.
Because they dont want to go up against the NBA/NFL
The timeframe is like the one thing MLB has on its side right now….
One word: football
TV Networks told MLB they don’t want games in November and December because of NFL.
Dont want to compete with other pro sports as well as college football and basketball and add times!
It’s fascinating to me that Free Agents are being signed without knowledge of season length , DH rules, playoff scenarios…etc.
But only by some teams.
Fascinating is a good word to use. I would offer incredible and moronic as alternatives.
Conny, very few players/teams are really effected by the delay. All other players would’ve been signed regardless. It is stupid that they couldn’t just agree on that is a good faith gesture on both sides, at least for optics sake for the fans.
Those most effected by this have yet to sign; Ozuna, Cruz, E5, etc. If the universal DH is active again for ’21, and even more so, going forward beyond ’21, then these guys have twice as many potential suitors. If no universal DH, then they’re stuck w/ the AL, and their earning potential is likely far less. I’ve not followed each and every signing so far, but from what I’ve seen, there has yet to be a hitter signed that cannot at least passably play a defensive position.
The MLBPA has said that the season will be 162 games and the DH cannot be tied to expanded playoffs.
Since MLB cannot change anything without the approval of the MLBPA, the season is going to be 162 games with no NL DH unless the MLB owners decide they are willing to actually pay the players for playing in the expanded playoffs.
Do you actually think the MLBPA is going to take that wish list and end up getting every item they want? Remember this is the same lame bunch who actually bargained for sushi (lol) chefs in the clubhouse the last CBA.
The crew of team reps wouldn’t want myself representing for a parking ticket, much less items which could be worth millions.
LOL! The last CBA was one of the worst I’ve ever seen. Without even a single other consideration, they cap grows by 2% while the revenues grow by 6%? It took me a split-second to question the numbers. And it was a good bit worse than I anticipated when the other cap penalties became known.
Sorry, but the players, their agents, and their union reps are idiots. Not that I care how they cut up dollars, but my fear is that Clark will try to organize a strike to save face for having blundered so badly last time.
@JoeBrady: One issue of note for me seems to be how the Union concentrated on so many esoteric or non-essential wishlist items; rather, they sacrificed seemingly in the meat of the contract and then they complained about that which they agreed to. When I represented unions in negotiations and they would ask for non-essential items, it was never at the expense of core items like pay.
Don’t know where you are getting that they are not willing to pay them. So far it has come down to whether or not they pay them a flat sum or prorated according to revenue collected – and of course what percentages they agree upon. They are really much closer in agreement than most people think however because of their past adversarial relationship any little thing becomes a big thing. Personally I think they could agree right now if they really wanted to. It’s all BS to me and at the expense of fans everywhere.
if we are still under the pandemic emergency as it has never been taken off the owners can do what they did last year though. And go ahead and set a season more than likely what manfred wants and pro-rate the money or no money for players who refuse seems to me is what could happen again.
It just blows me away that were going through this same old crap again, while the NFL just finished a season without any of these problems, and the NBA hasn’t had any of these issues either. How dumb are these owners and the MLBPA? How can they not see that MLB as a whole is suffering miserably due to their whining and greediness at a time when they have already fallen SO FAR behind the NFL and NBA in popularity? 20 years ago baseball was the #1 sport in this country. 20 years from now it’s gonna be somewhere behind the WNBA at this rate. Wake up you pathetic fools!
I could’ve swore I got a notification the Players Union turned down the DH option for 2021? Is that not the case?…is the DH still and option? Plus I thought the Players Union would be for it…..
I could’ve swore i got a notification the Players Union turned down the DH for 2021? Is that not the case anymore or am I way off?!…Plus I would’ve thought the Players Union would be for the DH?…
You mean taking it on the fly is not the best option??
I could’ve swore I got a notification not too long ago the Players Association turned down the proposal for DH in 2021 already? Is that not the case?…Plus I thought the players would be for having a DH no?….
Yes, they turned down the whole proposal. I saw it on USA Today I believe, and Bleacher’s Report.
Oh boy, and here we go again…. it’s going to take them four months of the season to agree to a schedule, when the original conversation started eight games apart or so.
Next poll: How many games will MLB play next season?
Sixty.
Not really. This time, MLB can only alter the season/schedule with approval from the MLBPA, aswear last year, Manfred had the unilateral authority to set the length of schedule himself.
162 games please
The season will be 162 games and start on time unless the owners fork over money to the players for the expanded playoffs. The owners cannot unilaterally decide on how long the season will be or when it will start and 2020 proved they have the protocols in place to play the season safely, albeit without fans in the stands.
6 out games dang
Sounds pretty fair which means they will reject and not counter.
It only sounds fair if you are a reasonable open minded person. So it sounds fair to a majority of people on this board, but far from all.
Halo11 –
Thats exactly why MLB owners and the MLBPA have such a hard time agreeing on anything. Being reasonable and open minded are qualities that are frowned upon by both sides. Arrogance, narcissism, and childish crybaby behavior prevent any kind of progress in their negotiations.
Meanwhile, the NFL and NBA somehow find a way to make things work without all this ridiculous drama. Those sports continue to flourish while MLB falls further and further down the drain.
The players were already guaranteed their full salaries for 2021, so what exactly are they gaining here?
This doesn’t sound fair at all, unless the owners are saying that they will pay 162 games of salaries for 154 games of work which doesn’t seem likely if you read Sherman’s tweets.
Yankees98, that’s exactly what the owners are saying.
It’s 162 games of salaries for 154 games of work PLUS being ripped off in the expanded playoffs compensation. Essentially MLB is trying to get the players to give them huge expanded playoff revenues in exchange for 8 days of rest they don’t really want. The players want a fair share of the playoff pie… particularly to avoid setting a precedent for future seasons. They don’t want to go into the CBA negotiation with the status quo being a minimal playoff take for the wild card round.
The owners are trying to negotiate through the media. The players ARE guaranteed their salaries for 2021 and the owners cannot unilaterally shorten the season or change when it starts without the permission of the players.
This is not different in any way from what the owners have been proposing before with the exception of saying they want 154 games. The MLBPA has no vested interest in agreeing to this proposal.
The owners have no argument for 154 games because they proved last season that they can hold games with the protocols they had in place.
@Pads Fans — You seem to be confusing a proposal with a unilateral action.
Unless I read it wrong, players still get paid for 162 games, but only have to play 154. Same pay for 8 less games is a plus for the players.
@Pads… No the owners are trying for a greater chance they will get MORE fans in the stands and they may even have a chance of getting players inoculated by delaying.
Personally I don’t see how but that’s what I’ve read.
Is anybody really going to miss the extra 8 games… season is arguably too long to begin with
The players ARE guaranteed their salaries for 2021
=======================================================
Are you sure? They certainly didn’t come close to full salaries in 2020.
The players and owners somehow agreed to a deal last year that allowed their salaries to be prorated based on the number of games played. No such deal is in place this year, so they are still entitled to their full salaries
Sounds fair.
How about just do what’s best for the game….greedy oricks
This is best for society and the game.
I hate expanded playoffs, but if the season can be delayed a month, businesses are helped, spring training sites are helped, society is helped and there is a greater likelihood for more fans to see games.
Even though I hate expanded playoffs and am afraid this is yet just another domino, this is best for everyone.
I expect expanded playoffs are as a sure of a bet as the universal DH, I just hope they don’t expand too much and allow too many teams in. .500 teams don’t deserve to be in the playoffs.
Joe, I fear that you are right. I think it’s smart to worry about the dominoes, but judging this proposal based on this one year… it’s best for everyone. Businesses, society, players, fans and owners.
The minor leagues as well. More things open up by the week.
And that’s the concern of the players association. If there are too many playoff slots, then mediocre teams get in, and teams are no longer required to compete for premium talent to get in…therefore, it’s a way to lower salaries by lowering demand.
The players are in control next year.. The CBA ends.
The Owners are not going to fall on their swords if the players don’t want expanded playoffs.
The people in control of expanded playoffs are the players, not the owners.
To combat that, the union could suggest a salary floor. Teams would then have to spend a certain amount on player salary, forcing teams to spend in FA.
Absolute nonsense. The Wild Card didn’t reduce compétition for players. Neither do expanded playoffs. Some are desperate to find an excuse to blâme the owners for the union’s intransigance.
@Tom … but at the same time it can increase demand for trades because more teams want to win. Not likely because not many teams make deadline trades anyway.
Next year after the cba expires neither side is in control as there will be a strike or a lockout,
Halo11 –
Delaying the season would definitely be good in a lot of ways, as you mentioned, but the league and the TV companies that broadcast the games do not want to go up against the NFL, college football, and the NBA for ratings. I think that is probably the biggest stumbling block for any kind of delay, as MLB would get crushed in that scenario
What in your opinion is best for the game? Easy to make comments like yours. Harder to propose something real.
To me the best for the game is to leave the playoffs as is,add universal DH and go to the 154 game schedule.
Not sure if you mean how the playoffs were last year or the year before. If it is last year then yes that is what the owners want and the universal dh and less games for more salary is what the players want. That is the negotiations
If you are saying going back to pre-covid playoffs what have the players given up? Nothing from what i see and the owners continue at a loss but paying even more for giving the players free games.
You can say they still made money but if you are expected to be at a certain profit level and dont hit it guess what the overall value goes down and there arent a lot of super fans out there like Cohen willing to go nuts to buy the team. These owners are in it for the money and what returns they can get.
Pads fan.
Unless you use a name, no one ever knows who you are replying to.
Pads Fans5 hours ago
What in your opinion is best for the game?
======================================================
Way before Covid, I was always in favor of 154 games and expanded playoffs. Not even necessarily expanding the number of teams. I’d much rather watch a best of 3 WC series, and a best of 7 ALCS, etc.
Regardless, I think 162 games is ridiculous, and watching early-April games in the NE can be painful.
Leave the playoffs alone. I like that winning a division matters, and the single game wild card is fun. Eliminate the DH entirely, but that’s not going to happen (more later). I could go for 154 game season. Or how about 162 with a few real (single ticket) double headers like the old days.
As for the DH, I think it’s just wrong and never liked it, but I did like something I heard from Bud Black. The DH is in play until the first pitching change then no DH. It gets rid of of the awful opener as a pitcher, and allows for NL strategy in later innings. Maybe if the starter leaves for an injury the DH continues.
I would be okay with pitchers hitting if they actually hit. Too many stand there with the bats on their shoulder. Baseball can be snoozy enough, we don’t need to watch a guy in the box who doesn’t want to be there.
These idiots are bound and determined to destroy the game.
Baseball needs new leadership. Both the league and the union. Ridiculous how they get along and “negotiate “.
I hate expanded playoffs (sigh)
I do too. It’s awful. Everything else is fine. Having expanded playoffs makes the regular season meaningless unless it’s a short season like we just had. I wish they would stop trying to turn baseball into other sports.
Agreed, expanded playoffs are a joke – nothing but a money grab. If I were younger I’d probably be moving towards soccer as a fan. Alas, I’m too entrenched in my mlb fandom.
Yes. We should go back to the best team in each league playing a seven-game World Series and that’s it. Anything else dilutes the value of being the best.
They don’t play with the same set of rules, so best team in each league is still diluted. You’d have to have no divisions and everyone play everyone else an equal amount of times with the exact same rules and no playoffs at all to actually declare the best team. At that point, might as well just run simulators. I prefer having variables. It is much more entertaining.
Thomas,
While not practical, or possible, your idea is the correct idea.
Now that the leagues are essentially identical and we have interleague play, having a World Series is inappropriate. Just have all of MLB be one division and crown the winner at the end, because they’re the genuinely best team — a playoff can only increase the chances of a lesser team being crowned.
Or we could realize that this is entertainment, and choose what’s fun instead of what’s fair. Baseball has never been a fair game anyway, it’s the game where you can do everything right and line out or everything wrong and luck into getting on base. If you want baseball to be fair, you’ll have to award results based on exit velocities.
Thomas, you’re right on point. I don’t understand how some can’t see the reduced value in expanded playoffs. It encourages teams to play at closer to a .500 level, preserve arms, not go all out, and live in mediocrity….. until the end. I’m okay with one WC, but prefer your proposed playoff structure
I was ok with it last season, just because it was 60 games. It helped teams that would have won 90 games actually make the playoffs (New York and Houston specifically). The 60 game season was a joke.
Likewise. I never ever want to see expanded playoffs again! Ten teams is absolutely perfect and reasonable. It allows for an upstart team or two to get into the playoffs while not permitting those who tread water (cough, Astros, cough) to sneak in and make a deep run.
People aren’t watching. Playoffs get more people to watch. I like it, as more teams are in it and playing for something. Baseball is struggling. They need to do something to get people. The optics of this negotiating and whining to the press isn’t helping.
“As it sounds, this deal has everything both sides want”…
Which is exactly why they won’t agree to it.
As long as there’s universal DH that’s all I care about
Hell yes!
Can’t stand the DH. I want to watch real baseball this year.
Can’t comprehend how both sides aren’t further along with this the day before February 1st
It’s almost as if MLB and the owners dragged their feet to try and create leverage on purpose.
The owners have not budged one bit in their offer. The only thing different in this proposal is that they have said publicly that they can play 154 games.
The hitch here is that expanded playoffs will bring in nearly a half billion in additional TV revenue for the owners, while players do not get paid at all in the post season. The owners are unwilling to give up any of that TV money.
Until they do, there will be no changes to the season. No DH. No expanded playoffs. No shortening of the season.
Wondering if the players still get a bigger cut of the post-season revenue under this proposal. If not, it’s probably DOE.
Ridiculous the way the league and the union “negotiate”. Both need new leadership.
A154 game season versus a 162 game season? That seems close enough to me to squeeze in eight doubleheaders over six months and get the full season in.
They want more open dates for makeup games
My guess is the proposed 154 game season is already chock full of double headers, if it postpones opening day by a month and includes more post-season games.
@ Oddvark
You’re probably right. I was assuming that owners are naturally averse to doubleheaders just because fans traditionally get to watch two games while paying for one.
not split couple headers
Wtf? I thought this year was supposed to be back to normal as far as format and games played.
How could the players not agree to this. Play 154 and we’ll pay you for 162. Universal DH which everyone wants. Expanded playoffs give players more money. Yes expanded playoffs gives owners disproportionately more but this will allow more owners money to spend in free agency, which is a win for players.
If this deal doesn’t get done it’s on the players.
How? I’ll tell you how….it still doesn’t address pay for the extended playoffs for players. MLB is keeping all of the tv revenues, players only get a portion of the gate receipts.
Oh I agree. Those poor poor pauper players. Imagine how embarrassing it is for their wives to load up the kids & go to Goodwill to shop, pay for their groceries w/food stamps & live in an 8 bedroom 10 bath only house w/pool & gardener.
they arent going to pay for more then are played. that’s not worthwhile for them.
The players are already guaranteed to get paid for 162 games regardless of when the season starts or how many games are played. So how exactly does this benefit them?
Only the players want the DH. The NL owners are against it because it will cost them an average of $5 million more per team.
Players are not paid for playing in the post season and expanded playoffs would give the owners nearly a half billion in additional TV revenue. Unless the owners decide they are willing to pay the players a fair share of that revenue, then nothing has changed and there will be a 162 game season that starts on time.
If this deal doesn’t get done its because the owners have not changed their offer one bit and are trying to negotiate through the media.
Can we get a new pic for Mr.Clark here?
Don’t the broadcasters that paid all of those millions for local broadcasts rights have a seat at the table? They lose one sixth of their season.
Can they stop with the expanded post season? Tired of hearing about it. All it does is water down the regular season.
MLB yet again can’t get it right they are a joke. We will be lucky to have a 100 game season…they can’t even decide on having a DH in the National League.. The owners would love no season at all and the leaders of the players association are missing in action..They should just vaccinate the players coaches media…and MLB donate millions to some charities so people don’t freak out and call it a day
We will have a 162 game season. MLB already proved last season that it is possible to play the games. With more and more players and fans getting vaccinated there is no argument against the fact that the season can be played.
So take the vaccines from the highest-risk people and give it to young athletes? Why?
I don’t even know why the players are even marginally concerned about the virus given that the vast majority are very very low risk. Getting a shot doesn’t help them much except to get them to stop wearing masks.
“Very very low risk” for what exactly? Dying from COVID-19? Sure. Getting COVID-19 and risking spreading it to higher-risk family members or having potential long-term lung and heart issues? They’re at as much risk as anybody in that regard.
As I understand it there are a number of factors that go into how many games get played in a season. I’ve heard solid arguments about shorter seasons or shorter games. Like 162 games but 7-inning games or 150 games, shaving two weeks off the season.
Obviously players pay is somewhat tied to the number of games in a season. So nobody wants to lose money off their contracts because they don’t play as many games, a decision that isn’t entirely up to them, after the fact of negotiating contracts- plus they just lost a ton of income last year.
The players have guaranteed contracts. Last season they agreed to be paid a prorated portion of those contracts. MLB proved that games can be played safely as long as players and staff adhere to the protocols in place so MLB cannot claim its not possible.
How many games are played is in the CBA. The owners cannot make changes to that CBA without the approval of the MLBPA and the players union has already said they will not agree to a shortened season.
I thought the owners had to pay the players their full, non-prorated salaries in 2020 because the season was less than 82 games 😉
Yes to the 154 game season. No to expanded playoffs.
Agreed. Expanded could be wild card game 2 out of 3, Division series 4 out of 7. Same amount of teams.
did they not see the NFL play a full season? the vaccine doesn’t even stop the spread of this disease that barely kills anyone
What bothers me in this is NO mention of the minor leagues. The vast majority of minor league player not only lost pay but any real chance to develop their game. This hurts the future quality of the game as well as hurting teams trying to develop for the future. If you are going to extend the season a month then you’d better extend the MiLB season as well.
Because the MLBPA only negotiates on behalf of MLB players. They don’t represent the MiLB.
They’ve already announced plans to delay most MiLB seasons by a month. Playing a month longer there presents much less of a challenge though, because the MiLB season normally ends at the start of September and doesn’t need lengthy playoffs if any (if I recall, they said they’re canceling minor league postseasons this year). Even with a month delay, it’ll still be over before a normal MLB season would be over.
They want an expanded post season? Fine make the 1 game wild card 2 out of 3, and the division series 4 out of 7. We don’t need it with extra teams.
Expanded playoffs suck, even though my Jays made it last year. If it were up to me I’d have the top four seeds from each league, regardless of division, make the playoffs. No more wildcards.
THIS!!!!
MLB is the only league in the world that plays so many games, if we cant tell who the actual-good teams are after that many, then we might as well let everyone in the playoffs.
Play 162 and let the top 4 in no matter what division, 1 plays 4 and 2 plays 3. The unbalanced schedule has been letting fake-good teams in the playoffs the whole time, it’s so illogical and unfair on teams who play in strong divisions with actually-good teams in it, as opposed to teams who get to beat up on 100 loss teams for 40+ games a year – that’s how a fraudulent contender is born.
So you’re advocating just doing away with divisions essentially and reverting back to pre-1969 days? That’s what it would equate to.
Sort of. Sounds like he is saying more like pre 1994 days, but with divisions. But if he staying no matter what division then might as well not have divisions.
Yes, that’s exactly what I’m suggesting.
Yes, divisional baseball and the unbalanced schedule is the worst part of MLB and always has been.
This is a simple and brilliant idea. Solves a lot of issues. Rewards the best.
I’ve been advocating that for a while, but it requires a completely balanced schedule. This means either completely integrating both leagues (blah) or going back to playing teams only in your league (superior choice in my opinion). Also, none of this whole “play the same team a bunch of times in April and May and have the season series completed by June. It needs to be a balanced schedule, both in regards to teams played and length of time between playing them.
What exactly is the point of divisions anymore? It’s not like teams are traveling by bus or train anymore. A five hour flight from coast to coast a few times a season isn’t bad.
There’s 15 teams in each league, so that means each team plays 14 other teams in the league. Eliminate interleague.
Play 6 home, 6 away against 14 teams – 12×14 = 168 games with only 4 playoff teams. This is SO close to the amount of games we’ve been playing.
I personally would prefer to cut one game (6 home/5 away or vice versa) and make it a 154 game schedule. Then, make the wild card round a best of 3 and make the divisional round best of 7.
I know that presents problems because one of the four series every year would have to be a 2 gamer. However, I wouldn’t be opposed to your 6/6 proposal if they would reintroduce planned doubleheaders, even if that meant keeping the 7 inning format. An extra 6 games on the schedule means starting in March or not starting the playoffs until a week into October.
Mlb could delay the start of the season 2weeks and have a full season ending before Thanksgiving if they don’t expand the postseason. If they do then they could still have it, but they would have to go with set stadiums like they did this past season.
I say, start the season 2.5 weeks late, play the 162, with 4 double headers (one with each division foe). I’d start spring training 3.5 weeks late, and cut a week worth of games of spring training. Allow more players, say 28 for the first 4 weeks., then 26 for the rest of the season, except for the final 4.5 weeks. allow 30 players for expanded rosters.
The owners want expanded playoffs. Let them do it, with the players getting some portion of the net revenue. I know that it dilutes the game, but I don’t understand people losing their minds over it.
The point of divisions and unbalanced schedules is to try to develop rivalries through familiarity and regular competition. MLB is a huge league, playing 29 other teams or even 14 makes it hard to get familiar.
But I think interleague play needs to die so we can get enough divisional rival matchups.
I think travel is a secondary concern to the fact that TV viewership takes a hit when you have west and east coast teams playing each other because of the time zone differences. The last thing either side really wants is more of those games.
@C-Daddy
The problem with this is that it’s not simply mediocre teams that will be kept out of the playoffs. For a long time, the Yankees were unquestionably the best team in the AL East, but the Red Sox would always be right up there, winning about 95 games a year to the Yanks’ 100+. The BoSox almost always won more games than the first place team in one of the weaker divisions could manage. Speaking personally, I’d much prefer a playoff environment that gives all of the best teams a shot in the postseason, not just those who place first in their respective divisions.
That’s what I suggested – the top 4 teams in each league, regardless of division, make the playoffs.
If they change anything at all I’ll cancel my last two season tickets and never spend another dollar on mlb or watch another game again
So the league pays the players to take 8 days off and they get the expanded playoff revenue in return. Seems, uh, incredibly generous and equitable, especially since the players are already intending to earn their entire salaries by playing those 8 days.
That playoff revenue likely will be hundreds of millions of dollars. That’s “generous and equitable” for playing eight fewer games in one month’s time? That’s either few off days or more doubleheaders. It’s a starting point in negotiations.
Seems fair but players won’t take a 5% paycut probably after last yr. So it will probably lead to chaos and 75 games played or something stupid.
Expanded playoffs should be considered a non-starter in any proposal. The grind of the regular season separating the good teams from the great teams is what makes baseball baseball. It’s the main draw of the sport and always has been.
This is the best deal for both sides and should be an easy agreement….BUT!!!
If they change anything at all I’m cancelling my last two season tickets and never spending another dollar on MLB or watching another game again.
I went from being a diehard fan to not watching a single game last year solely because of the rule changes.
My problem with expanded playoffs is this. A bogus “Champion” like the NFC East Washington football team.
Agree, last year was great to see the game played to some extent, but bogus championship!
Balk, it’s not a bogus championship if a team wins 90+ games. It’s harder for good teams because they have to go through a harder playoff format.
It may be a bogus championship,but bad teams have made the playoffs before and they will again.
Yep, WC teams have actually won the WS. Let’s go back to the team with the best record in each league facing each other in a WS. Anything more dilutes having the best record.
Hallo11, you’re right, if a team wins a division, plays a full season(like all other champions), and goes through the exhaustion, fatigue, injuries and wins out, that’s a champion. I don’t discredit how good the Dodgers are or Rays, but so many different things happen during a season. Take Bellinger, his shoulder injury, it happened and would’ve sidelined him for a couple of months and that could’ve changed things if he wasn’t available for the post season.
Plus you can’t say a team with an above .500 record that gets into the WC game after a full exhausting season, and wins out is a bad team. Now playing expanded playoffs with below average teams that only faced their division with a couple of games against a few other teams is not playoffs and is not hard for a team like the Dodgers or any team with an above .500 record to beat. It’s a twisted version of baseball.
I’m all for removing the wild card game.
The Redskins winning the division had nothing to do with expanded playoffs. You want to use the Bears as the example.
Yep, that’s what happened last year with the Dodgers winning the WS.
Yep, and a relatively weak Brewers team could have lucked out against the Dodgers last fall and won two out of three. Happens all the time in the regular season.
It seems very reasonable. It’s also kind of silly to tie the DH thing to this proposal. Season length and roster construction could be voted on separately.
Also, it’s a failure of leadership of epic proportions that were three weeks from players reporting and half the league still doesn’t know how to construct their rosters.
The owners have not budged one bit on the offer they have been giving the players. Now they are trying to negotiate through the media. They have failed miserably.
They haven’t budged one bit?
Paying them for 8 games they are not going to play is a budge. Not tying the DH to the future CBA considerations is a budge.
I think you’re nuts.
They won’t be voted on separately, though. Both sides want to put their demands in part of a larger package to increase their chances of winning regarding whatever issues they deem most important.
I misread originally, but full pay for less games for players and delaying the season a month in which more people become vaccinated seems like an incredibly great and smart offer from the owners. Players will look bad pushing back on this, which I’m guessing they will because that’s what they do.
It comes down to lack of compensation for the expanded playoff. This keeps getting left out of attempts to summarize what’s on the table here. Yet it’s clearly the biggest thing, by far. It’s practically the whole enchilada.
Always about the $’s.
Up into 1960, the season was 154.
@gogosox59
And there were no playoffs. The AL team with the best record played the NL team with the best record in the world series.
And there were only 16 teams.. Half of those had no chance after August 1st. If went direct from no playoff pennant to WS, there likely would be 22 teams with nothing to play for in August or September.
Good call, 8 games is not a huge amount to lose. I would reduce some interleague games and go from there.
That might be hard to do because of the 15 teams in each league. There always has to be at least one inter league series going on.
Al Avila STINKS!
Manfred STINKS!
Expanded playoffs STINK!
HIRE EPSTEIN ALREADY!
Shut up
RR, when it comes to expanded playoffs, the players have all the power.
I think Epstein is dead but some crazies may think otherwise.
Ugh. If it ends up at 154, fine, but I fear this is just the start. These stubborn fools refuse to give in (both sides!), and it ends up hurting the fans. Just make sure the season is worth it–no more sixty-game nonsense. Finish this and get the process for the season going. No more bull***t.
The MLBPA has said that they will not agree to a shortened season. So there will be 162 games unless the owners change their offer to include paying the players a fair amount of the additional TV revenue for the expanded playoffs.
@PadsFans – I respect your opinion and insights. However no need to repeat it over and over and over and over and over again.
Actually there is a need for him to repeat. Most efforts to summarize what is on the table here fail to note that it’s the expanded playoff revenue driving the whole thing. Most everyone gets distracted by the 154 game schedule, the 8 games paid for, the DH, etc. Even if they happen to mention the expanded playoff, they don’t mention the revenue that the owners want to keep for themselves and the players want a piece of. So it’s good that someone comes along and points it out from time to time.
Smith and Alonso in the same lineup everyday??? Say less. Seriously tho, how do teams have a gameplan to pitch to us. They will hate facing us.
This is stupid. Manfred thinks players can just turn on getting ready for spring training then turn it off. I know players have their programs going, and delaying it throws them off tract. The players know the Covid protocols, so start spring training as scheduled. Manfred is ruining baseball!!!
Manfred? You do realize there is a players union… right? You do realize there is a CBA… right?
Oh the poor players, even though they hold all the power, they are powerless!!!!!
The players just want to go out and play a full season.
The players want to get paid for a full season. If the players don’t want expanded playoffs, it’s in their power.
There is more in the proposal that isn’t out there.
The players want a twenty-six man roster all season and a bigger piece of burgeoning media and new licensing and a faster path to free agency. The league wants more bottom line revenue. It’s going to be a compromise, regardless.
The positive for fans is – the discussion on issues now likely sets up a more seamless CBA negotiation end of year. Neither side can wait with COVID impacting society. The downside is an overly expanded playoff structure dilutes or shortens professional sports’ longest season and it counts toward playoff entry. The players and owners only seem to care about the revenue end and not how it affects the actual game.
I just don’t want to see baseball lose its unique flavor of being an all summer long non-physical contact sport, wherein the season is the determining factor to playoff entry. I’d rather go to a summer game against a rival and pay the lower ticket prices, too. I definitely don’t want to see half the league or even 40% make the postseason with more expensive costs for going to postseason in person.
I hope they split the other income streams up under the CBA more and leave the pricing and meaningful quality of summer regular long season games as is. I like going to the ballpark and the pace of being able to talk about the players and pitches more so than the action style pace of NBA, NFL, and NHL. Baseball has its own unique pace and a more summer BBQ and swimming pool feel than the other major sports.
Fine, so long as that stupid runner on second business in extras isn’t part of the deal. Didn’t like 7 inning doubleheader’s, but hated…HATED the runner on second rule. If they have to have it, start it in the 12th.
Tony Clark leading the charge for the players has scared me after seeing last seasons disaster
Hopefully this offer will be enough to make the MLBPA happy. It makes sense to me. It would be nice for the owners and players to be on the same page with the current CBA set to expire on December 1st. Being amicable now would be a positive development heading into potentially contentious labor negotiations this offseason.
But will the SEASON end before December 1? 😉
Even with a month delay and an expanded round of playoffs the season figures to end close to its normal time. The 154-game season would cut about 10 days off the usual 162-game slate. The players are willing to have less days off or play more doubleheaders as long as they’re getting payed for a full 162-game season which could cram the 154-games into even less days. This could also result in more 27-man active rosters, at least for the doubleheaders. The owners won’t push the postseason too far into November because the TV networks forbid it with NFL and NCAA football in full swing and when the NBA and NHL typically begin their seasons.
November has also become the typical starting point for the new TV prime-time season. Networks don’t want to be televising MLB games during the evening prime time when they will be airing their typical reality show crap that most of dumb-a$$ America prefers.
MLB Trade rumors late again with news. Other sites right on top of things at least 45 minutes before this site posts anything. I thought reporting MLB news was their job? Clearly I was mistaken.
Jesus Christ just play the normal God damn season!!! NORMAL!!!
Fools if they sign. The need to delay the season is pathetic
This offer does not have everything both sides want. Not close..
The owners would make $455 million for TV rights alone for the expanded playoffs and are offering the players no money from that TV revenue, only ticket sales. There may not BE ticket sales and a players do not get paid in the post season. Its a joke.
The only thing the owners really offered is the DH in the NL. That is 15 jobs. Around $75 million in additional income for the players.
The owners don’t have a choice but to pay the players for all 162 games without prorating it because they held a season last year. They cannot say that its not possible. That is not a benefit to the players.
When the owners stop negotiating through the media and get serious about giving the players more money from their windfall in the post season, THEN and only then will there be a chance of something getting done.
Until then the season is 162 games and spring training starts in 2 weeks.
The MLBPA has proven they are a joke. Last offseason was horrific. The last CBA they negotiated was a joke as well.
How could any competitive athlete not be clamoring for the post season. For a chance to win it all. Isn’t that what sports is all about? Add the DH and more players make more money. Get in the playoffs and the likelihood that players get endorsements from local businesses skyrockets. Playoffs creates more fans. More fans create more revenue. More revenue creates bigger salaries. Why do you keep repeating the same myopic view over and over again. It’s the same short sighted logic that has created this mess baseball is in.
These are all excellent points but it should also be noted that the MLB players have been reluctant to participate in revenue sharing like their other professional peers who all play in leagues that have ‘real’ salary caps. Just saying…
Pads, the $455 windfall you refer to comes down to approximately $15 million per team. The owners are trying to recoup lost ticket sales and I doubt $25 million will get it done.
Should be $15 million both times above; not $25 mil.
If the expanded playoffs is just for the ’21 season, same as the DH then where is the MLBPA’s loss of leverage for the next CBA? Demand a bigger piece of the expanded playoff money too.
How do you negotiate a contract which both sides get what they both want and not ratify it. That sounds like something that would go on in Washington and Congress.
I find it funny that this whole thing started because of the letter sent to MLB by the Cactus League, at the request of the Mayors, yet with Covid infections allegedly being so high in the Phoenix area all the bars and restaurants are open for business. I’m all for them being open, so let spring training start on time.
Am I the only baseball fan who supports expanded playoffs? Having more teams make the playoffs means more interested fans for more cities. This will increase popularity of the game. Also, more teams making the playoffs means more teams will spend because they have a shot to make the playoffs. The whole reason we are in this “tank and draft” era is because teams cannot close the gap to the top teams to compete.
Nobody is advocating for 12 teams to make the playoffs in each league. I think 6 would work fine. The best teams should still shine. Will definitely make the season more exciting in the later months for more teams, as opposed to half the league being virtually eliminated by the all-star break.
Byes are kind of a joke in baseball in my opinion. They are used to playing every day sitting out a week only helps a high seed with injuries. I think its a disadvantage.
If you want to talk playoff format, I agree with what you are saying. But I have so many other problems with the playoff format.
First, I would also say that it is incredibly ridiculous to play 162 games and have a 5 game divisional series. If the playoff format is to remain the way it is, at least make every round 7 games and have a 2-2-1-1-1 format. 2-3-2 gives a huge advantage to the away team in my opinion. The team with the weaker record should never play 3 games at home before the team with better record.
Second, the playoffs utilize more days off compared to the regular season. These series should be 7 games in 7 consecutive days – no days off. That is how the season is played.
Lastly, teams are accustomed to playing at certain times. For example, west coast teams play their home night games at 7 pm PST. Shifting their game times earlier to allow for “more viewership nationally” (which likely is not true since fans who want to watch will watch and the majority live near where the game is being played) puts these teams at an unfair advantage. Their pregame routines are all shifted.
I so disagree with this. Teams tank in other sports ( and there is more certainly in those sports).Look at the Jacksonville Jaguars. Also some times franchise are simply bad. Look at the Detroit Lions: One playoff win in 65 years, the Sacramento Kings and Ottawa Senators are other examples of historically bad franchises.
You cannot compare baseball tanking to a sport where a single player makes a big difference and can do so quickly after being drafted.
If I know connor mcdavid is going to be available, I would tank every year. In baseball, high draft picks bust all the time. These other sports also allow for trading of draft picks which helps the whole process too.
You make my point about tanking. There is less of a guarantee in baseball. Yet, baseball is the only sport that teams are criticized for it. I hate to defend the Houston Astros but they get ripped for tanking, while the Jaguars are praised for doing it to get Trevor Lawrence. I also do not want to see MLB become a sport where the players are so dominant that they can pick and choose wherever they want to go and make other teams basically become the Pirates through no fault of their own. An example is the New Orleans Pelicans. How long can they keep Zion Williamson? It will be like the Pirates and Gerrit Cole.
Teams are very likely to spend less with expanded playoffs because it’s easier to make the playoffs so there’s less incentive to improve the team by spending on the best players.
While I can see your reasoning for that, I think it would actually have the opposite effect. More teams are trying to compete if there are more playoff spots (fewer teams will be intentionally tanking). That means more demand for a limited supply of players. This will also increase player salaries.
Currently, there is no incentive to sign one player because it will not significantly increase the number of games the team will win. If the playoffs are expanded, signing that one player may now actually help you make the playoffs.
Teams tank for one reason – to save money. They don’t tank for any other reason.
I dont buy that crap.
Teams that have a real shot of winning a championship will spend.
Fringe playoff teams will also spend to make sure they get in. I believe expanded playoffs will increase the number of teams willing to spend and there will be less teams going full rebuild mode.
Just play the games. Allow stadiums to be 20% full at the start, and let’s go. Or, just vaccinate all 40 man rosters and all coaches, probably less than 10,000 vaccines total. You can always increase allowed attendance as you go forward.
1) the season is too long as it is. They should experiment with a shortened season anyways and….
2) why does nobody talk about the fans. 40% of the revenue comes from ticket sales and merchandise aka fans. They should be doing whatever they can to ensure that fans are in the stadiums. For lack of a better word, we are the ones are indirectly lying them millions, both the owners and the players.
Find a way to safely allow fans in stadiums including California and New York and make decisions based off that. If we can fit 1000 people in a Costco with a roof, we can fit 10,000 playing customers socially distanced in a ballpark.
No CostCo’s have 1,000 people in them. Maybe 200 tops. That being said they ought to be able to fit five or ten thousand fans in a park safely.
Full support. Players get paid 100%. Owners get more $ through expanded playoffs. And ticketholders get their April games postponed until better weather. Win-win-win.
Players gain little, owners gain hundreds of millions from expanded playoffs. Not exactly even.
Why not just 100 games, after all who wants to keep watching the teams that are tanking? Then expand the playoffs to 11 and 15 game series. World Series can be 21 games in November and December at a neutral domed stadium. Pay the stadium from 10 games and the 2 teams from the revenue of the other 11.
Yes. WinWinWin. Zero chance the union agrees.
ahhhh yes, expanded playoffs to reward sucking……GTFO with that stuff. Braindead Manfred and his gaggle of morons are ruining baseball. play 162, leave the playoffs alone, leave the NL DH alone, universal DH sucks, have a normal season, because COVID is basically influenza with different effects. Amazing how no one is dying from ANYTHING else anymore. COVID has cured cancer, COPD, diabetes, CHF, emphysema, obesity….. Turn off the news sheeple and live your lives.
This will most likely get rejected. Dont see the players union giving the mlb what they want just to play 8 less games.
Mlb, nfl and now nba have all showed they can play a season in this pandemic.
The only way the players union will agree to any changes is if they get what they deem is a fair portion of the expanded playoff dollars.
Anyone who dislikes expanded playoffs will have to get over it. Whether it’s this year or next its going to happen.
There is absolutely no guarantee that expanded playoffs are coming. The players have every opportunity to quash that in the CBA negotiations next offseason and so far most have been against the expansion.
Way to much money with expanded playoffs. Mlb will give in and give the players a larger cut and it will get done.
Other wise there will be a good chance of a lockout.
It’s all about the dollars and both sides want more.
Every other major sport is going on right now. Start the season on time. Shouldn’t have to be any different, 162 as scheduled please!
Looks like this proposal makes everyone whole or nearly so. The players get their entire salary as provided by the current CBA. Given empty or nearly empty stadiums, the owners get their revenue, or nearly all of it, via the expanded playoffs.
Win, win. Play ball.
Agreed, don’t drag this out, Play ball!
Yes, it’s is exactly what I think the point is. If it’s beneficial to both, which it is, do it. They won’t because they’re too greedy. Thus, this will be a protracted conversation with a back and forth that shortens the season further, reduces salaries (overall, not proportionally), and reduces overall income for owners because it’s less baseball.
I think it was USA Today that first did the story about MLBPA’s denial of this proposal.
It’s not about whether the owners should pay these salaries – they should.
It’s not about whether the players should suck it up and be a little flexible (see agreement above) – they should
It’s about the persistent back and forth to try and leverage the tiniest advantage for a future that is uncertain right now, when they can all agree on a mutually beneficial contract that allows baseball to resume some type of normalcy, for the game, for the players, for the FANS who pay.
Almost guarantee there will be expanded playoffs again this year, seems like a safe bet there will be universal dh too
What they could do is start on time, play the regular schedule and then allow fans to attend games like they’re doing in every other sport going on right now. I have flown 4 times in the last two months. I feel far more at risk in those conditions than I do in a baseball stadium.
MLBPA gonna look like crap if they spit on this.
I don’t really see how shaving 8 games off the schedule really does anything but i can’t see the players necessarily saying “no” if they are getting full pay. Of course they could say no and give us a preview of the winter of discontent that is likely coming next year
They will say no because they know if they say no they will still get paid for 162 games and get a larger chunk of the expanded playoffs pool.
The owners want to keep the expanded playoff pool dollars to themselves to offset tickets losses. Which makes sense but the players know this and can squeeze the owners for more money.
Why exactly do they want to delay the season by a month? What exactly does this accomplish? The virus will be over and their will be full stadiums? Come on, NBA, NFL, and NHL all playing right now. You could wait until July and it still won’t be perfect.
No expanded playoffs
No no no no no
154 games. What do they do about any broken season records? Do they get an asterisk?
By the way, this comment is SARCASM directed at the horrible treatment of Roger Maris and later Henry Aaron for daring to break the precious records of Babe Ruth. Records that baseball later decided to auction off in the steroid era to the hapless fans who still went to the games and financed a now phony game into the record books.
Who gives a flying pig how many games they PLAN to play when it’s January 31st?
What’s wrong with 162 game season if they’re expected to start on time? I hate the dh in the NL. I’ll take it over expanded playoffs. That’s all around a terrible idea. It’s worse than a man on 2nd in extras. And 7inning double headers. Well actually it’s not. Man on 2nd in extras and 7inning doubleheaders is the dumbest thing ever. Manfred should be banned from baseball for those ideas. Just awful.
Please give a hard pass to expanded playoffs. This league is going to get so watered-down and the full season is going to mean less and less with more teams in.
looking back over the last forty years, it is hard to see how MLB and the players association could have done more to destroy baseball.
Whether the season is 154 games or 162, I will probably watch a lot less. Expanded playoffs and the universal DH has no appeal for me. The emphasis on power both in pitching and hitting has, in my opinion, made the game less appealing. The game has lost too many dimensions, it has become too uniform in how it is played. If Little League plays this summer in my town, I suspect those games will be more fun to watch than MLB.
Honestly, it’s garbage like this that continues to drive fans away. Millionaires and billionaires squabbling over utterly ridiculous points.
While the MLB looks out for the owners, and the PA looks out for the players, they’ll eventually turn around and realize there aren’t any fans left. Good luck to everyone when these cable contracts run their course and there’s no one watching.
Tony Clark is signing the agreement as we speak without knowing all the details. Borass is kissing all his carrots gold rings on his fingers in the corner.
If not for fantasy baseball, I would have absolutely no interest in watching any amount of mlb.
Fantasy baseball does add another wonderful wrinkle to the game. I would still tune into baseball on the radio, even without a wonderful home fantasy baseball league (established 2004) Rosalie interest. I would also watch games in off days during the summer. I’d much rather listen to a baseball game on my lunch or on the way home, than anything else. Baseball does take me away during a good many summer days.
Are the owners offering 7 less regular season games but keeping the revenue from the playoffs? If so, the players will be required to play those games as part of their regular season pay. They’ll still play the games but without additional pay. I’m sure they will.
Pretty much. The owners will pay the players for 162 games but the players only play 154. That sounds pretty fair except the owners want expanded playoffs where they get an extra 450m.
So the players will say no, unless they offer the players closer to 200-225m spilt of the additional playoff dollars.
I think at the end they will agree to a split close to 50/50 on the expanded playoffs. Why because the owner have to pay for 162 either way, might as well get another 225m for the playoffs vs nothing.
What other professional sport shares playoff TV revenues with its players? Answer: none of them! Baseball teams already pay their players extra for making the playoffs by splitting the playoff gate revenues 50/50 with them. More playoff games = more attendance = more playoff pay. The further you go, the more money you earn. I see no reason to change this formula unless COVID still prevents fans from attending. If that is the case, figure out what the total income would have been from having fans in the stands and guarantee the players they will get paid that much. Baseball ends up paying players more for the playoffs than the NBA does. They should be happy with this as is.
I think most people who are against expanded playoffs are not fans of smaller market teams. Before 1969 there were no play-offs, just 2 teams in the World Series. Many baseball purists hated the idea of play-offs beginning in 1969 but baseball constantly evolves. There are twice as many teams now and simply put expanded play-offs makes baseball more exciting for more fans. IMHO.
I think expanded playoffs are fine if done right. I like the 3 games vs 1. Plus i do think the top teams should get a bye week.
Indians, A’s, Rays, Twins, Brewers, etc. seem to do okay and win. The issue we have is that now it is just fine for teams like the Indians, Cubs, etc. to field a mediocre team, not spend aim for 85 wins. You expand the playoffs out and the regular season is boring. Who cares about the Dodgers and Padres. They’ll be in cruise control to the playoffs and load-managing everyone come July.
The only thing that will matter w/ a large playoff is the playoff. Why should I watch 6 months of baseball for a random knockout round. Anyone recall who won a division in the nba or nhl or the big east. No because it doesn’t matter and that’s what everyone is fighting for. Not lowering the bar so teams can succeed w/ out trying.
That makes perfect sense. To fans of a big market team like the Yankees or the Dodgers, the expanded playoffs mean that there is one more chance for their team to get knocked out of the playoffs. To a fan of a small market team like the Marlins or the Brewers, the expanded playoffs means that there is a better chance of making the playoffs, even though they can’t afford to spend as much as LA or NY.
Or teams like the Marlins can stop pocketing tens of millions of dollars in revenue, spend like they are a pretty big market (which they are), keep their top players like Yelich and try. Or they can keep spending pennies since there is little incentive to spend when you can rake in the cash and fans accept it.
Dan55: I’m not against expanded playoffs for that reason. I think there plenty of others listed herein that supersede that, and validate the reasoning for keeping the playoffs status quo; although, I do believe there are fans who feel that way.
That said, I am of the opinion that this amended contractual agreement, with that stipulation included, should be approved. Who cares if it’s expanded? Maybe cut down in the total number of games though? Play some damn baseball!
I’m not against expanded playoffs at all. But if you are going to expand them and let half of baseball in than what’s the point of a 162 game season? Cut it down to 120 and expand the playoffs and honestly I think every fan would be more engaged.
There are so many cool ways to expand the playoffs….round robin, tournament style games, who knows what else they can come up with.
But for the love of god shorten the season. What does it even matter anymore every record imaginable is tainted from the steroid era so stats are basically meaningless now.
Wrong. I am a fan of a smaller market team and I am against expanding the playoffs. I also don’t find it more exciting. More teams, more like a crap shoot. I like excellence not luck.
Also, check your math. In 1969, there were 24 teams. Twice that is 48. MLB only has 30. In 1960, there were sixteen teams, just a World Series. Since there are almost twice as many teams today as there were in 1960, a playoff between two teams per league and then the World Series seems in order.
Below is a repost of something I posted a couple of hours ago. With 4 teams in the playoffs, that would be 13% of teams involved. That seems like too tough a standard which no other sport comes close to meeting.
Teams in playoffs (not counting co-vid year):
NBA = 53% ( 16 of 30)
NHL = 52% (16 of 31)
NFL = 38% (12 of 32)
MLB = 53% if 16/30
MLB = 47% if 14/30
MLB = 40% if 12/30
MLB = 33% if 10/30
MLB = 13% if 4/30
NFL now has 44% (14 of 32).
53% is way too many. Might as well just have an extended spring training and have the season be one giant playoff bracket.
Expand the rosters to 28, guarantee expansion within 5 years, kick the owners of the A’s, Rays and Pirates down the stairs (yes, these are franchises) , raise the minimum to 1M a year, cut Free Agency to 5 years, and the MLBPA will agree to anything, including a new CBA.
Do you have three billionaires lined up to buy the A’s, Rays, and Pirates?
John Fisher – A’s Owner – net worth 2.5 billion
Stewart Sternberg – Rays Owner – est. 800 million’
Robert Nutting – Pirates Owner – $1,3 billion
Of course, these are estimates but these teams are all owned by billionaires.
Nope, but I’m sure they can be found, especially if MLB forces the sales, which they are well within their rights to do. The MLBPA seems to have a problem with those three, so MLB would be motivated to move on from them.
No more expansion. We have enough crappy teams as it is. I’d rather see a team like the Rays move elsewhere.
Quick question. If expanded playoffs make more fan bases involved, generate fan interest, force teams to avoid not try trying, why hasn’t this happened already? I mean we had 4 teams make the playoffs, then 8, then 10. We tried 16 last year, and how were ratings?
You know what would boost ratings and fan interest. Quicker games, more balls in play, a normal baseball, lifting blackout restrictions, etc. Must have missed the fixes on this. Before COVID, attendance was down 13 million people in 10 years!
Honestly, this feels like when a venture capitalist raids a business and tries to squeeze out every penny w/out caring about the long term. Expanded playoffs are all about cash just like the ncaa tourney is the only thing that matters in college basketball now.
Baseball will NEVER get the casual fan. I don’t care about basketball. Nothing you do will make me care. But when you mess w/ the game and lose the hardcore fan interest, the fan who loved the game from childhood. And when that fan leaves, this sport is in massive trouble.
This is once again stupid and a false sense of safety. If they can play 154 games, they can play 162 games. Expanding the playoffs will potentially allow teams under .500 to make the postseason, which is shameful.
Both the owners and the union need to open their eyes and realize the damage they are doing to the game. This bickering in the media over millions and billions of dollars while the product we watch continues to go down the toilet is going to be the end of them. Hockey is going to be more popular than baseball in 10-15 years if they keep this up while putting an absolutely boring product on the field year after year.
The game is not exciting anymore. It’s quickly falling out of favor with the younger generations. Both the owners and the union seem to be blind to this. Stop acting like idiots and get your game fixed and get on the freaking field.
It’s quickly falling out of favor with the younger generations.
=====================================================
I am currently celebrating the 40th anniversary of when soccer was going to overtake BB. The 53 anniversary of BB ruining the game by lowering the mound. And the 47th anniversary of BB ruining the game by adding the DH.
And the average AL attendance was just over 1 million fans. Today? Better than double.
I agree 100% with this. I have heard for years Soccer will “Be the next big thing.” It has not even caught up to hockey ( let alone MLB). Wake me up when the first great athlete announces I am playing soccer over the NFL, NBA, NHL or MLB. There is no better example then New York. It is a diverse city, so you would think a lot of MLS fans, but no one cares about the soccer teams ( they are even below the New Jersey Devils when it comes to media coverage).
What are you guys talking about? Football and basketball have already overtaken baseball a long time ago and it’s not even close. And you must not know a single person who isn’t a white bread American if you think soccer isn’t growing rapidly over here. Our brothers and sisters who came from South America, countries like Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, do not care one bit about baseball and are nuts for soccer. They may not care much about the MLS but they are crazy for the game abroad.
Go look at the attendance numbers of international matches played on US soil and tell me there isn’t a following here.
I’m not happy about it either guys but I’m not ignorant to the fact that baseball is being swallowed by other sports. Pretending like this isn’t a problem and the game is on the right trajectory doesn’t help matters either.
The NFL is clearly much more popular than MLB. However, NBA ratings have started declining recently, so I am not convinced that they have overtaken MLB. The World Series was much more popular than the NBA Championship this year. I don’t know if this will continue into the future, but right now MLB has the advantage.
Soccer will never be a big sport in America. I live in San Diego, a city that should be a big soccer town, but we don’t have any support for a professional soccer franchise. The problem with soccer is that it is way too boring for American viewers to enjoy.
The Mrs is from Mexico and she and her family care about La Liga MX ( and they watched America versus Santos while I watched Islanders versus Flyers), They care nothing about the Yankees and Islanders, and I care nothing about soccer. but once again you are not seeing the American kid saying I am choosing soccer over baseball, football, hockey and basketball. MLB is still the best league for baseball, as the NHL is for hockey and the NBA is for basketball. MLS is not even on the Mexican level let alone a European level ( not to mention the men’s team is inferior to Mexico, despite having better facilities and equipment). Nor do we have the passion for it. In fact, we are closer to being better then Canada in hockey, then Mexico at soccer. Until those things change, soccer is not catching baseball or hockey ( let alone the NFL or NBA).
Especially telling because San Diego is next to Mexico. Soccer will not even catch hockey let alone the other three sports. I bet there is more support for SDSU Aztec football then soccer there.
Soccer is very far behind Aztec football and basketball in San Diego. We do have a lot of youth soccer organizations in San Diego, but that has yet to translate into an actual fanbase for professional soccer. To be fair, we don’t have a MLS team, but even if we did, I don’t think it would get much support.
The oldest fanbase in sports is baseball- the youngest are soccer and hockey. Gallup.
I always question polls. Why? It is not what is said but how it was said. Even if it is accurate I wonder how many of those kids will like soccer over the other sports when they are adults? Not to mention pay for it. One thing the media does is bash baseball every chance it gets, while praising soccer calling it the “beautiful sport”
Definitely question polls. When you use arguments from inaccurate polls or use projections from fangraphs to make points based on hypothesis there is a problem. That’s good ole’ Marko.
Soccer is an international phenomenon but it hasn’t overtaken baseball in the US. However, basketball did. NASCAR did. Football did. Baseball’s answer to this problem has been the wrong one and they are not willing to admit or adjust their thinking.
Good OLD Wild Bill Tetley and his lack of reading comprehension. If you read what I said very carefully you will notice I said nothing about fanbase size aka popularity merely that the demographic was older for baseball .
My bad I know you have a hard time understanding anything more then the simplest of concepts at times.
Btw
Everyone uses demographics and projections from TV too brands. You seem stuck in the 1930s .
Substitute College Football for NASCAR and I would agree. I am originally from NY and no one cares about NASCAR there. Even in Arizona where I lived later on it is ASU sports NOT NASCAR.
Miss the Marko, why are you angry? Take a cue from NY Yankee. He responded with more clarity. Try it sometime.
Manfred. Clearly not a baseball guy. If he was he’d take the bull by the horns and ensure everything got settled. Like other sports commissioners. Theo Epstein can’t take over soon enough.
Turning the regular season meaningless with expanded playoffs. Expand it with one caveat; top 2 seeds have full home field in round 1 if eight teams qualify.
If more money is what everyone is after, expansion to 32 teams would have solved the problem. Extra minor league affiliates and maybe zero lawsuits from those affiliates dropped from the cut down.
154 games. Sure.
Teams in playoffs:
NBA = 53% ( 16 of 30)
NHL = 52% (16 of 31)
NFL = 38% (12 of 32)
MLB = 53% if 16/30
MLB = 47% if 14/30
MLB = 40% if 12/30
MLB = 33% if 10/30
I like 12 teams. In each league, the top two teams by record get first round bye.
NFL went to 14 teams this year. I agree 12 and top 2 get byes seem right with 30 teams. Make the 1st round best of 3. High seed host all 3 games.
50% is waaay too much for playoffs. They’re not earning anything. 1/3. More than that is just too much IMO.
Why not give 25% of the playoff money from all teams through the World Series to the team and players that have the best season record in each league, then only give playoff winnings to the team that wins each round. Winner takes all each round. That would definitely incentivize teams to win the season and each round.
Per mlb.com the players already get a take, except for the expanded wild card teams, it’s not spelled out. There isn’t any playoff money going to the players on non-playoff teams.
“Each postseason team receives a share of the money earned from playoff gate receipts. The World Series champion receives the highest percentage of the pool, followed by the World Series runner-up, and so on.
The players’ pool is formed from 50 percent of the gate receipts from the Wild Card Games; 60 percent of the gate receipts from the first three games of the Division Series; 60 percent of the gate receipts from the first four games of the League Championship Series; and 60 percent of the gate receipts from the first four games of the World Series.
Players from each team vote on how many full or partial shares to award to other club personnel.
Example
The 2019 players’ pool amounted to $80,861,145.74. The World Series champion Nationals received $29,110,012.47 of that grand total, while the American League champion Astros received $19,406,674.98. The Nationals voted to award 61 full shares, which amounted to $382,358.18 each. They also issued 14.13 partial shares. The Astros awarded 57 full shares, which amounted to $256,030.16 each, and issued 13.58 partial shares.”
I honestly wish they’d go back to the division winners plus 1 WC and then let the top overall team in each league pick its opponent. The Yankees match up well with the Twins, for example, but badly against TB. Even if the Twins have a better record, the Yankees ought to be able to pick them if New York has the league’s best overall record.
That said, I can live with 10, but I really don’t want any more than that. It should be difficult to get to the playoffs.
I like this ^^^ hyrax comment
There are 30 teams in baseball. Is there a compelling reason for expansion? They struggle to manage the game as it is. Why add more teams when so many tank as standard procedure? Please…someone throw a tent over this circus.
They need an injection of money. Expansion does that.
The game, whatever struggle you think it has and the ranking has nothing to do with expansion. Expansion or not there will always be tanking.
Circus rolls into town regardless of expansion, expansion adds money and jobs. Those are enough reasons to do it. And now.
I guess you’re right. The owners need more money. Time to expand. What was I thinking.
Here is the problem: Where do you expect these teams to play? Right now, there are two teams ( Oakland and Tampa Bay) that need new stadiums first. Be it in present locations or not. I would even favor contracting those teams and having a draft starting with the Pirates. Think Pittsburgh could use a prospect like Franco from Tampa?
NY, you could do that. Except there would have to be a buyout from the 28 clubs. I am not sure they are prepared to do that at this present time.
Viable expansion locations: Nashville, 2nd Boston team, 2nd Toronto team, Charlotte, Indianapolis, Vegas, San Antonio, Sacramento, not necessarily in that order.
Adding two teams means additional 8 minor league affiliates who’ve lost a home after the reductions this year. Perhaps a lawsuit or two go away. Expansion “should” mean more competition, more jobs, more baseball, no interleague through the entire season.
Did you really just suggest 2nd Toronto and Boston teams !!. Ok you just proved something.
Fangraphs couldn’t help you prove a point here, so you just say a lot of nothing again? You are in zero position to judge anyone for bringing nothing of substance to the table.
Boston could easily support a second team. Toronto would be a bigger reach than Boston, but you do not know Boston very well if you are questioning it. Fun fact: they used to have two franchises in Boston.
And let’s settle this part; I am not Bill, I am not Jimmer and I am not Charles Kime. Stop making accusations of doing what you do: use multiple accounts. Thanks.
You are most definitely WildBillTetley. The only person I had disagreements with about both Teo – his defense and his trade value AND HCQ .
Why are you hiding from your old nickname- you must have been banned.
There are many other locations that could support a franchise before a 2nd in either Boston or Toronto. Must be a reason no one else has ever suggested it.
You are a joke Billy and it is obvious to most on here. Why is it you get such poor feedback on most of your comments.
I checked previous Jays stories. Your comments are still there.
You haven’t named 1 location yet. Probably because you are too afraid of ridicule. That is why you attack me; I’m inside your head and you can’t let go.
On-top of that, don’t care what other people think, especially you and your other fake accounts. Without projections made by math equations you bring nothing to the table. Opinions grown out of fear. Now jump on your other accounts and try bullying me out of here. Good luck.
So now you think all those who disagree with you are all the same person. Wild Bill- you have lost the plot.
Locations better then a 2nd Boston or Toronto franchise. In no particular order.
San Antonio or Austin
Columbus
Charlotte
Montreal
Portland
Memphis
Nashville
Mexico City
Didn’t say that at all. You have multiple accounts and tons of anger problems.
Montreal didn’t draw very well and were below league average for their final 20 years. Tell a Boston Red Sox fan their city couldn’t support a 2nd franchise and they’d laugh in your face. To say Montreal would be a better option is ignorant to history.
Portland is in no shape right now.
Nashville will have a team before Memphis and doubtful they’d allow a 2nd team in the state that soon.
It only took you three tries to give an answer but congratulations. Oh, and I also said “not necessarily in that order” yet you neglected that. Please refrain from being angry before you respond next time.
WildBill
Why is it in all the talk of expansion over the past 30 yrs -all the articles written and fans comments are you the first and only person to suggest a 2nd team in Boston.
Name one other account I have . Unlike you I have one and only since I first joined last year.
Ignorant of history huh- So the consortium pushing for a team and talks of sharing with Tampa were just hot air huh. You know better then billionaire businessmen who were working toward bringing a team back to Montreal. Your arrogance is one of your calling cards Wild Bill.
Miss the Marko Montreal drew LESS than what Tampa has drawn in their worst year. If a billionaire wants to bring a team to a city that does not care for baseball like Montreal and has a publically-funded stadium ready to be built then that’s there prerogative. If the billionaire wants to lose money, again their prerogative. But let’s stop pretending Montreal is/was some great baseball market. That would be re-writing history.
The Topic was which cities would get a franchise before a 2nd in Toronto or a 2nd in Boson. Obviously if the Montreal group was willing to spend to bring a team back they had spent $$$ big time cash on market analysis to show it would be viable. Billionaires do not get to be billionaires by tossing away money .
The topic was started by me, and I said I’d have a 2nd Boston team and/or a 2nd Toronto team. You crapped on it without offering a real rebuttal (twice) and now you are re-writing the topic I started. You missed the mark, Marko.
Look, clearly you have serious anger issues toward me, PitcherBeRolling, Jimmer, Wild Billy, Charles Kime and whoever else you want to start a battle with. Goodnight.
Hmm is mlbtr deleting comments it doesn’t like?
November baseball may be colder, but it’s almost certain to be safer as well.
Anyone else hear a hellish choir when they read that?
don’t jinx it now.
I’m all for an extra round of Best out of 3 playoffs so long as the Top 2 teams in each league get a BYE in that first round. That rewards the best teams, allowing them to setup their rotation for Round 2 and eliminates the chances of a fluke upset. If you don’t get a Top 2 seed, then you’ll have to deal with the fact that you might end up playing a .500 team in Round 1.
6 playoff teams from each League for a total of 12 out of 30. Round 1 (Best of 3) 3 vs. 6 & 4 vs. 5. Then move into Best of 7’s with the 4 remaining teams. Quite simple
Simpleton !
Agree; as long as the first 2 seeds get a bye Im happy-You have to reward reg season dominance for this sport. I dont mind if they even go all basketball play in tourney for the very bottom seeds –
My only gripe and ONE of my biggest in the whole game is you have to expand the NLDS/ALDS to 7 games not 5 – 5 is insanely too low for the best teams in the league after a 162 game season to be thrown into.
Ive wanted to chop the regular season down for a while now as well- 162 is just too much for society today to care about for that long- What id really want to do is probably a 125 game season then take all of JULY off and play a WBC style tourney for all the world to join every year- Think this would create a lotta excitement and renewed interest in the sport worldwide. Pitchers could stay healthier and (better SPs) consume a better % of the overall starts; Sorry Sp5’s
After the July festival you would be kicking into a 50 game dash to finish for MLB- (First half 75 games) and then playoffs (* W prolly some expanded New-ish twist) with ofc 7 game Div series !!! Learn from NBA…playoffs are the drivers for everything these days and what you sell all season long
** All Star game would be week after World series and based on full years results…Players have option to decline but get paid a nice chunk to go….200k?
@Dorothy_Mantooth, I ws told by a supposed former player that mlb is about timing. If you have the top team sit out 5 days, that will hurt their hitting. The league should expand and add 2 teams so that there doesn’t need to be an interleague game almost everyday. This will reduce the ratio to 50%. They could keep the same format that all 3 games in the first round to be held in the higher seeded team stadium.
Don’t give Manfred anything, play the season. Play the original playoff format, and do what baseball has always done, give Americans and the world normalcy and hope!
I hope every one of those idiotic players get COVID. What’s the big of deal of starting a little bit later in the middle of a pandemic
Cool beans, bro.
The NFL seemed to play a full season. But MLB can’t.
Yea the NFL played without fans for most of those games. Why should teams not have a chance to make money to pay these crybabies
NFL also didnt play preseason but baseball will be. doing spring training to ramp up. Or we could start regular season on time. NFL didnt have an issue with it so im sure baseball wouldnt either.
Why would you hope that? Somethings wrong with the way you think. This season can be played carefully. How would you like it if I said that about you?! On top we’re not in the middle of a pandemic. We are towards the end. Get a brain. If I can go to work in a hospital, and not get it, why can’t players go play ball?
You realize the players haven’t actually declined anything yet, right?
And now it seems like they will find a way to delay things again. So the Marlins may have another shot. Hopefully we win the championship this time. If they did that, it would make this the best rebuild experience ever!
The Yankees-Mets World Series into early December is going to be very cold.
Well, at least it’s a sign they’re negotiating, although I’m suspicious of any leaks that come from the owners’ side.
Main question: If they can delay the start of the season by a month and play 154 games, why not play 162 games?
The MLBPA made a mistake last year allowing changes to be made to the CBA. They won’t allow that to happen again. The CBA says 162 games at full pay and the playoffs are also set under the CBA. If MLB wants them to allow changes to the CBA, it’s gonna cost them this time. The league could try and lock the players out but I think they’d lose this time.
I think in this scenario the players are still set to get the full 162 paycheck but play 154 games so i dont think its a slam dunk especially if the owners are throwing even more into the pot with the added dh for nl which means most likely another player spot on teams and more heading to the players side for that spot.
Here we go again.
I love this game but the people who run it suck and there aren’t any exceptions on any side.
There is nothing wrong with the way baseball was played 100 years ago, If they think the games are too long ,Kill the commercials, If they think they dont like the way pitchers bat, Dont watch or put the pitchers in a batting cage just like a real baseball player, Just like they did back then, At least know how to bunt. OK my rant is over Thank you I just needed to get that out.
This is a GREAT deal for the players and they should be forcing the Union to sign it. If you equate salaries to games played, this gives every player a 5% ‘raise’ by decreasing the season to 154 games. They also get the DH and more players get a shot at winning the World Series which is what this supposed to be about, right?
No other professional sports league splits playoff television revenue with the players. Why should MLB be any different? Players do earn extra money from the playoffs via 50% of the gate revenues which is about $2M per home game. The shared playoff television revenues really helps every team spend more in the long run. If the league earns more playoff revenue, each team earns more and will ultimately spend more: simple economics. If playoffs increase then maybe Cleveland will spend $80M on payroll next year instead of $50M. Playoff revenues provide a significant amount of the revenue share teams receive and that in turn is used to better the ball clubs. If the players want to claw into that more, then there will be less to spend come contract time. The NBA only sets aside ~$20M for playoff compensation to split amongst the teams. The 50% of gate revenues earns much more than that for MLB players. Is it just me or is the greed and distrust in MLB much worse than every other professional sport? I find this to be an extremely generous offer from the league and can’t believe the players don’t see it this way as well. If they can’t get this done then we are definitely headed for a strike or lockout next season with the CBA negotiations. Such a shame…
This is all so simple and the language shows you exactly where we are today
Players don’t Trust Manfred – They literally think he will backstab them the first second he can. I agree they should get something solid on paper with him/owners but good lord guys lets do this right and all in one solid swoop this time .
The players terrible “first” deal last year screwed the whole gosh darn thing up thereafter
* Quit all the public bitc$y whining as well .
We (FANS) literally dont give a sheez about how many millions of OUR dollars you guys get to split up…We just want the friggin product…. Be classy MLB, we deserve it
Manfred is essentially a lawyer representing the owners. We will never see another commissioner again who acts as a 3rd party to the players and owners who actually has power.
And I agree about the public bickering. Fight behind doors and I don’t care. Make whatever deal and I done care. Just tell me what the season will be after they are done fighting with each other. I don’t need any other details.
Exactly JM…just let me know when and where and ill bring my wallet
How come, only in Baseball, they always muck it up?
Universal DH can kiss my ass. Fugetaboutit
Go back to 2 divisions per league. Cut out inter-league play. Winner of each division gets a bye. X-over with 2 vs 3 with the 2nd place team in each division hosting the 3 game series.
Incentive to win the division plus a reward for 2nd in the event one team runs away with the division.
Expand by 2 teams within 5 years to have 4 x 8 team divisions.
The DH situation should have been decided long ago. The MLPA needs new leadership and a new commissioner is needed as well. The two sides are nauseating during negotiations. They wasted so much time last year. Baseball just keeps shooting themselves in the foot.
MLB: This offer contains the pay you want, has fewer games in which you could potentially get injured, and has expanded playoffs which means playoff money for half the players in the league instead of just 1/3, all while being socially conscious.
MLBPA: That’s a tremendous offer, but it comes from you, so we must make up some BS reason to reject it.
The players realize that expanded playoffs will lead to reduced salaries as teams become less willing to pay for extra wins. The increased playoff money doesn’t even come close to making up for that.
Most FA’s have signed by now. This agreement would be for just this season with the entire CBA to be renegotiated afterward. This is not a long-term fix, therefore, it’s not a long-term issue.
Also, there’s the counter-argument that tanking teams might be less likely to tank (and therefore spend more money) since the playoffs are more reachable. I think the effects of those two things would effectively be a wash.
What does MLB and the teacher unions have in common? They’re both gutless. Play the darn season. The NFL did. By opening day there will have been about 75 million Americans vaccinated. Total cases in the U.S. are dropping. This isn’t a deadly disease for healthy athletes in their 20’s and 30’s, The game is played for the most part outdoors, where this virus doesn’t spread.
Yes, cases are coming down, and deaths have remained flat for about 3 weeks. But, we don’t know yet whether there will be yet another peak before this is over. We also don’t have a firm grip at all on the vaccination process. And whether that alone will truly end the pandemic. The simple fact is that we never would have had to close ANYTHING except that people are so damn stupid they can’t follow basic rules like mask up, socially distance, wash your hands and avoid large gatherings. It’s simple basic stuff that only a couple of countries have been able to pull off without closing ANYTHING and without any major breakouts. The rest of the world has managed to screw the whole thing up. It’s NOT the media, not the governments, it’s the damn idiotic people who can’t get this right. You can’t go ANYWHERE without running into some dumb as poop who can’t follow the simple rules.
They have the freedom to NOT follow the rules. It is their choice. This isn’t Nazi Germany. Free Will & Human Rights are something you’re born with from your creator. They’re inherit. The State and other citizens have no say so in it.
No, you don’t have the freedom to not follow the rules, that’s why they’re called rules. Rules exist because people are stupid. If people weren’t stupid they would do the right thing and we wouldn’t need rules. But people are stupid. That’s basic reality. Stupid came first, then rules followed. Don’t do stupid things and we don’t need rules. Simple.
So wearing a mask and socially distancing are human rights violations now! Good grief you are truly ignorant of the world .
First, it’s inherent. Second, there are such things as State Laws, I’m sure you’ve heard of them. Free will and human rights are also inherent values afforded to all individuals born in the US, however, a set of ethics and morals are generally also included. Most of the people arguing against vaccinations, against social distancing, against mask mandates, and saying this is “just the flu” lack any sort of morals or ethics.
Continuing to spew this unfounded rhetoric further highlights the poor state of the American education system and how there are still people who do not believe in science. Comparing this to Nazi Germany would actually have been fairly accurate during the last four years. However your sensationalist claim shows that you are a part of this uneducated population and therefore I’m sorry the system has failed you.
Here is a rule, in high school sports, boys can compete against girls. Sometimes rules are made by stupid people.
@Dave Only a gutless union would give in to demands that they know will hurt them down the road. Also, saying the virus doesn’t spread outdoors is asinine.
“On Friday, MLB made another attempt to find an acceptable solution”
On Friday, MLB made another attempt to undermine the collective bargaining agreement to set the stage for what they want in the next round of collective bargaining.
Fixed it.
The players seem interested in biting off their nose to spite their face. With no fans in the stands for a percentage of this year (again)-Owners have 3 ways to recoup losses.
1-Play more games when fans are in the stands ( push back the start so more games are played when hopefully a significant percentage of fans are in the stands )
2-Increase playoff revenue.
3-Decrease costs for next year ( Salaries )
There is so much animosity now for the good of the game both MLB and MLPA should replace the mgmt teams.
@Marko . . . the owners don’t have to recoup their losses. That’s part of ownership in capitalism. You can make money, or lose money. It’s not the players’ responsibility to help the owners make money. Especially when it will likely hurt them in collective bargaining down the road.
@Pitcher..
Totally agree that is why I laid out the 2 methods they could increase revenue to cover those loses and the one area they could decrease costs to do so. As it seems the MLBPA will not allow for the revenue increase then they will be facing the cost cutting ( Lower spending ) on salaries again next off season .
@Marko Owners don’t have to recoup their losses. I’m not sure why this is so hard for you.
@Pitcher
So a business owner ( baseball is a business ) will just happily lose 100-140 million per team in revenue one year and do the same the next without taking measures to lessen or recoup those losses. What capitalist world does that happen . Not many companies would be in business for long operating under that brilliant strategy.
@Marko . . . Happily? No. But, if they lose money, they lose money. It’s not the players’, or anyone else’s, responsibility to fix that.
Also, teams still get paid for TV contracts (both regular season and playoffs) even if there aren’t fans. Billionaires are going to be just fine. If they don’t want to operate a business that might lose money sometimes, they can sell the team.
You do know that teams have to refund the Networks a prorated amount because of the shortened season right. Maybe you dont.
I was making the point that Players could act as partners and work together to boost revenue or act out of total self interest and next off season face another year with lower FA spending.
If you think last years 60 game season has not effected this winters FA spending you are naïve .
So the teams do get money from networks? Or not? I’m not sure why you can’t just read something and respond to what was said, as opposed to what you think was said.
@rgr I read until you said the contracts aren’t guaranteed. Do better or don’t bother.
MLB signed contracts with the networks bases on a certain number of games. Because less games were played last year teams have to refund a percentage of TV revenue to the applicable networks.
Owners lost revenue from ticket sales-concessions-merchandise AND TV revenue. They are not just going to pay players full wages this year and absorb even more loses. Without either A-Increasing revenue in other ways or B- Cutting costs ( salary) again next off season .
Pointless trying to get this into your head.
Go read what the other poster said about force majeure.
A “force majeure” clause (French for “superior force”) is a contract provision that relieves the parties from performing their contractual obligations when certain circumstances beyond their control arise, making performance inadvisable, commercially impracticable, illegal, or impossible.
commercially impracticable-Pitcher is this something you have a hard time understanding as well.
Nobody is saying the owners didn’t lose money. Jesus dude, learn reading comprehension and get back to me, or don’t.
Neat. So where does that say contracts become not guaranteed? Are you under 18? I’d feel bad giving a kid a hard time for reading like a kid.
Pitcher
haha are you for real or high on something. Go back and carefully read the definition son.
relieves the parties from performing their contractual obligations
Is that too complicated – I apologize if you are working off a 6th grade education .
Right, if you don’t work, you don’t get paid. That’s not the same as the contracts not being guaranteed. C’mon
If people don’t work, they don’t get paid. As soon as they can work (or can’t because they’re injured) they start getting paid again.
It’s cool that you throw underhand, though.
I know it is likely pointless but one last try to explain it too you.
The Force Majeure clause means the owners could easily say we are losing too much money due to the lack of fans at games caused by the pandemic , so we are shutting down baseball until conditions permit Full stadiums and that associated revenue stream. At which point Players will be paid for the prorated amount of the games they play.
The Owners are trying to avoid that with the offer they made.
We know we will lose more money by playing more games but we will give you full salaries and try and play those games if we can recoup the loses with extra playoff revenue.
Looks like the Players would rather earn a fraction of their salary then work in partnership .
Maybe I shouldn’t say the players but their Union Executive.
Rgrddy
It can be exasperating at times for sure ! Some people do not seem able to grasp the simplest of concepts.
Is it lack of intelligence or just being dogmatic and refusing to be open minded to the facts.
Have a great night !
It is pointless to try to explain something other than the topic at hand, you’re right.
There should permanently be less games. But no one will ever agree to it due to $$$.
Or the fact that less games is stupid.
great for pirates fans 8 less games for pirates to lose pirates could have better winning percentage.
Didn’t help last year. They were the only team in the NLC who were awful.
Don’t play baseball, but okay to play football and basketball which involve closer contact and sweating on other players. smh
They better end up doing this, it makes a lot of sense.
The new proposal would only allow for 12 off days for the whole season. Of course the players wouldn’t sign off on that. That’s ridiculous.
Why don’t they comprise and just expand playoffs as 2 out of 3 instead of the 1 wildcard game, and best of 7 for the division series. Keep the playoffs teams at 10 and the addition of he few extra games will bring in a little more revenue without increasing the number of rams and watering it down.
*Compromise
*number of teams.
Sorry, auto correct
There will be no compromising from either party!
The union doesn’t want expanded playoffs. I can’t disagree with that.
If we ever have expanded playoffs, it will be the unions fault. They have all the power.
So.
The union “‘doesn’t like expanded playoffs”‘.
Awww. They don’t, uh?
Well, I don’t*like* that I’m not the QB for the Giants. I don’t *like* that grouse season closed yesterday, either.
Sorta how life goes, fellas.
Ya know?
This is a very fair offer. The MLBPA seems to be absolutely determined to just irritate us all – no matter our specific thoughts & experiences with those particular gangsters.
Ducky.. Yeah for sure. If it was a simple case of negotiations, I would understand but if they’re not going to offer a counter proposal, they’re just whining for the sake of whining. So far, I gotta side with the owners on this one and I hate the idea of expanded playoffs.
Yeah, I’m not too crazy about expanded playoffs either. Like everyone else, I think it dilutes the meaning of the regular season.
Which will lead to shenanigans we haven’t even thought of yet.
Anyway.
Clarke got his behind handed to him during the last CBA negotiations. So…what?
He’s trying to make up for it now?
During a pandemic?
I’m lukewarm on unions at the best of times. But the MLBPA’s pettiness & petulance – since last summer – make it hard for me to engender any kind of empathy for their cause.
Why do they need to negotiate anything now though, before the CBA is up?
Players Union is a bunch of overpaid Cry babies! Go F yourselves!
Players union is pretty much not going to agree with anything put fourth by the owners plain and simple. Can’t wait til next winter…
After this year good-bye baseball until Spring 2023. The players themselves need to wake up and boot that executive.
Agreed with the players’ union: I don’t like expanded playoffs either. It really doesn’t make sense for the sport. There is a lot of variance in a 3 game series in baseball due to pitching rotations, hit sequencing, etc.
NBA: the better team almost always wins a 7 game series. The outcome is predictable and the long playoffs are mostly a pointless cash grab until the final series.
MLB, copying the NBA playoffs: So much variance that < .500 teams can beat the greats too frequently. Makes building a great team vs. a middling team somewhat pointless.
A better proposal for expanded MLB playoffs: Change the division series to 7 games. Add one more wild card per league with a 3 game play-in. Adds 10-18 total playoff games to the previous format. This isn't what I would actually want, it's just better than adding another 3 game round that every team, great or average, must fight through. Also keeps the incentive to build a great team so you can skip past the first round.
Looks like the commish is not the only stickler.
I feel that the expanded playoffs were one of the most refreshing changes to MLB in a very long time.
it made sense for a 60-game season. Not a fan of expanded playoffs going forward. Unless you really want to change up the way the series are structured, a la the KBO or something.
You could do away with division and give the regular season champ in each league a bye to the League Championship series, and give higher seeded a teams a game up to start each series, or make the entire series played at the higher seeded team’s stadium, etc.
I liked all of the 2020 changes. 7 innings double headers, start the 10th with a man on second, the DH, and expanded playoffs.
no more playoffs! let us go back to AL CHAMP AND NL CHAMP, PEROID.
I am sure the Players would love going back to the days before free agency.
@Marko
Do you have issues with reading comprehension? They said AL and NL champ, not let’s get rid of free agency.
Pitcher
I would ask you the same question. The playoff format expanded BEFORE free agency in 75. To roll things back to the 1960s AL-NL winners only that would be pre free agency.
In what alternate universe would owners agree to give up the revenue of the playoffs and keep the existing FA format. You are 0-2 pal on the logic-comprehension scale.
One has nothing to do with the other Miss. As Pitcher Me Rolling said, do you have reading comprehension?
BTW, I’m not Pitcher Me Rolling either.
We’re not talking about what owners would do. We’re talking about what the poster said. You’re the only person talking about doing away with free agency.
Oh my…
Is it really so hard for some of you to connect the dots !
The Poster said go back to League Winners playing in the World Series with no playoffs.
That is 1960s and prior baseball .
FA came about in 1975 AFTER the expansion of playoffs . To eliminate the playoffs you are going back BEFORE the time of FA.
Is that so hard to understand.
Your “connecting the dots” is adding context that isn’t there. If you want to talk about something else, post about something else.
Context is going back to baseball as it was in the 1960s before FA. Next time before you comment in reply to someone else stop and think.
Have a good night.
That’s the context you added, yes. We’re making progress.
Marko one has nothing to do with the other. Why would you even suggest this is what the guy was saying? Perhaps he would like to see the regular season matter a little bit. And then you miss the mark, right on cue.
Wild Bill – Surprise surprise you again , unable to put together a complex thought. Read what my reply was.
Your reply was the usual; ignorant and off the mark, Marko.
Only an imbecile would think it is off the mark . Get real !! Are you so gullible to think Owners would agree to go back to 1960 playoff format with much less associated revenue and keep FA which came into effect in 1975 – AFTER the expansion of playoffs and the resulting EXPANSION of revenue. Seriously are you really that dense.
One has everything to do with the other. No way on this green earth would owners have agreed to FA if not for the expanded revenue that went hand in hand with expanded playoffs a number of years prior. Do try to keep up next time Billy . I know logic is not a strong suit of yours but…
You missed the mark, Marko. One has nothing to do with the other. Stop adding context, getting angry for no reason, and swinging wildly at ghosts.
You stop butting in and putting your own twist on others comments. One of the many reasons I know you are WildBillTetley.
Your failure to comprehend that the expansion of playoffs and the associated increase in revenue played a part in FA coming about just shows complex or linear arguments are over your head. Nightie night.
@Johnmac94
How come you don’t like the playoffs?
Who cares about any of this crap. Play Baseball…there’s no reason they can’t play a full season. Period. Social distance, wear a n95 masks, not some cheap handkerchief, sanitize, limit capacity like they do at Lowe’s, the bank etc. and everything will be fine.
As always the Owners and Players in a hassle for more considerations, and the fans freak them.
As I see it, players won’t agree to expanded playoffs unless they can get something of
significance to them. MLB keeps tying in expanded playoffs and universal DH. I don’t think that’s enough for the players to agree..
And who likes expanded playoffs ? It’s an injection of money that will hurt bad the sport in the long run, no short cuts..
They must not realize that the country survived just fine without athletes and other celebrities the past year.
Alexander, actually baseball, football, basketball, and hockey had seasons.
Maybe you just didn’t pay attention to sports.
No reason whatsoever to delay the start of anything.
Besides Arizona being unprepared for the start of pre season baseball.
Then teams can play at their home fields to get ready. A’s, Giants, Padres, Angels, Seattle, Dodgers can all get ready at home. I’m sure most teams don’t need 30 days to get ready. Due to injuries and such I bet most players prefer a shortened spring
And then send the central teams to Florida? The ones that have have spring training in Arizona
These organizations are awful at everything.
The owners have not changed one thing about their offer. The only thing I see different on this offer is they said exactly how many games they want to play. Guess what Manfred? The players aren’t stupid.
You want the players to give you expanded playoffs? Get ready to pay them a big chunk of the money you would get from the TV networks.
Just cancel the league already. All this fighting yearly. Next they will argue about the toilet paper in the clubhouses. Just take the sport off life support and let it die. Nobody under 50 cares anymore
The players get enough money, generally make more than the NHL and MLS. Demanding extra money because of expanded playoffs is greedy in my opinion.. Expanded playoffs are great for baseball, maybe not 14 teams, but 12 teams for sure.
I strongly disagree with the players union on this one.
Just did some research. In 2019 the Avg. attendance was 2.25 million per team . Average ticket price was $33.00 – that is $74,250,000 or 917,000 per game ( not including concessions -merchandise -parking etc)
So it is obvious owners are losing 1 million + in revenue each game that is played without fans. The more games played the higher the losses.
Minors is not governed by the same contract as MLB.
With this in mind and the fact the MLBPA looks like they will be very intransigent this year. I wonder if the Owners would consider enacting the Force Majeure clause of the CBA cancel the season until Fans can go to 100% capacity .Then go ahead and broadcast the Minor league season using the argument that the cost structure of the minors is much different then MLB and makes it economically feasible to proceed.
That would be playing ultimate hardball – call it the nuclear option.
Something to ponder.
@Marko, Minor League Baseball games are already available to watch and no one watches them.
Also, you keep going on about the Force Majeure clause as if the union can’t file a grievance if that happens.